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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Denalee Bell:
Hey, everybody. I'm Denalee Bell, and welcome to the Soapy Box. We have Courtney Chissus on our show today. She is a co-creator here at the Soapy Box. You'll see her on Instagram, and she really helps us out a lot. We're grateful. I met Courtney at Bible College, of all places.
Courtney Chassis:
Of all places.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And I thought I would be the oldest person there. And, obviously, I'm older.
Courtney Chassis:
Obviously I'm older. She was so surprised.
Denalee Bell:
I was. So, we're going to talk with Courtney because she's 31 and a millennial. We thought we'd talk about what it looks like to date in this new modern era as a millennial with traditional values. And I'm really excited to discuss this with her because, I mean, we're going to get a little personal, and-
Courtney Chassis:
Are you calling me a traditional woman?
Denalee Bell:
I am. You are, right?
Courtney Chassis:
It's a compliment, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
In this world, it is.
Courtney Chassis:
It is a compliment. And we just did a podcast on toxic femininity where there's people that don't really value that, but I do believe that men do. I do believe they like those traditional roles whether they want it or not.
Denalee Bell:
And I think women do, too. We just don't know it because we've been sold something that isn't quite right.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, I think traditional women do. I think traditional men do.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
We're not all the same. Not all men are created equal.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
Not all women are. And I'm here to, not represent anyone, but just to say dating is weird nowadays. In this world, it is weird.
Denalee Bell:
Is it weirder now than pre-COVID?
Courtney Chassis:
Yes. Yes, because the world has changed.
Denalee Bell:
Lines have been made in the sand, right?
Courtney Chassis:
I mean, I want to say it has nothing to do with COVID, but the world is changing before my eyes, and I never thought I'd say that.
Denalee Bell:
But don't you think COVID opened up our eyes? It made me realize what my values were because I think I'm traditional, but you wouldn't think that looking at my history. And if you knew me for my 51 years, you wouldn't think I was traditional.
Courtney Chassis:
Right, right.
Denalee Bell:
Because I think I've just embraced those values maybe in the last five years that, "Oh, I like this. I like these roles." Instead of fighting it all the time and embracing them, I've just been happier.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, I think for so long I was resistant, too. And I'm only 31, but in the three decades I've been alive, I have gone through different phases, different chapters, different identities of who I am, and it has looked so different over the years in relationships with different people. And to see that evolve, not just who I am, but what I'm looking for, and it's all identity based. My relationship with God has helped change that, helped evolve that. And as my journey and my faith walk changes, then so does what I'm looking for in a relationship.
Denalee Bell:
Isn't it interesting as we evolve in our faith? That is so good, what you just said, because my marriage has just completely changed. The closer I have been with God, the more I embrace these traditional values. It's not like I'm doing it because the Scripture says or because somebody says it. My heart's changing towards it. We have joint bank accounts. But not that that's in the Bible, but I think that's traditional, right?
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
We had separate bank accounts before, but it also separated us somehow into not a team.
Courtney Chassis:
Your identity in God is everything if you ask me. But if-
Denalee Bell:
Well, it's who you are. It's a mirror, right?
Courtney Chassis:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
My progression with my faith, although that's looked very different over the years and even in the past year. Like she said, we went to Bible school. It's grown and it's linear. It's gone up and down. And as that changes, as that evolves, who I am, who I see myself changes. In turn, what I'm looking for, what I want, what I expect in a husband changes, and it's all related. It's all connected.
Denalee Bell:
It is. It is. You are obviously changing, right? Your faith is evolving, as you said.
Courtney Chassis:
Okay.
Denalee Bell:
Your values have undoubtedly changed, as well. Can you tell us a little bit about where your current value system is? Where does that lie? What's important to you?
Courtney Chassis:
God is number one for me. Always has been, always will be. That's looked a lot different over the years, and that will probably continue to look a lot different. And I hope it does because I hope to continue growing, changing every day, getting closer to Him, strengthening my faith. That relationship with God paves the path for all of my other relationships, including the one with myself. I think when it comes to dating and relationships, my identity in God is what is the most important. If I am a child of God and I am a sister in Christ, I'm a daughter, how could I not want to be aligned with that when it comes to who I am as a wife or as a girlfriend or as a mother someday.
Denalee Bell:
Friend. All of it.
Courtney Chassis:
As a friend.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Courtney Chassis:
And I look at that, and my family is important, my career is important, this is important to me. All of these things, they do align with my values. I wouldn't choose a job that goes out of my value system. Family is very important to me.
Denalee Bell:
Do you spend a lot of time with your family?
Courtney Chassis:
I do, yeah. And I was going to say, the family that I hope to create with my partner someday is always on my mind. Even though it's nonexistent right now-
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
... that's what I'm after. And yet, the foundation of all that is God and my relationship with Him. And I've been in relationships with non-believers before. And I'm not saying it's impossible.
Denalee Bell:
Is it hard?
Courtney Chassis:
It's tough.
Denalee Bell:
There's a reason.
Courtney Chassis:
It's tough.
Denalee Bell:
God told you so.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. And again, it's not that it can't be done.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm not ruling it out and saying maybe it does happen for a reason. Maybe I'm meant to be saving those people, but-
Denalee Bell:
I don't think so.
Courtney Chassis:
... it's not the way that God would have it.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
Why would I make it harder on myself if I don't need to?
Denalee Bell:
And I think the reason for being equally yoked, I believe, this is just my theory, having been unequally yoked in friendships, in business, in with my husband, those areas of your life that are important. The reason I think it's so important is because when there's two people, there's one dragging the other, right? If you're not in the same place, you're always dragging that person. It is so much easier to give up and to let their values and to compromise than for you to constantly be dragging somebody along. It's just too wearing and God knows that.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, it's like gravity. It's easier to be dragged down than-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Lifted up.
Courtney Chassis:
... lifted up.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. I think there might be some symbology in the actual yolk of why that is that I should maybe look into at some point. But since I'm married, I'm good. But maybe you could. Maybe you could.
Courtney Chassis:
Because I'm not married.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Hey.
Denalee Bell:
So, is it hard to find men with your similar values out there at this time in this age? We're in a post-Christian modern era, right?
Courtney Chassis:
We are in a crazy world.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. How-
Courtney Chassis:
And this dating world-
Denalee Bell:
... do you even find somebody who thinks like you? They don't have to be you, but similar values.
Courtney Chassis:
Dating in 2023 is so weird. Let me tell you. It's tough. And for all my girls out there, I mean, I would say, godly women and godly men all the same, we are in the same boat because it's rare to come across someone with the same values, or not the same, but a similar relationship to God and wanting the same thing. I wouldn't say-
Denalee Bell:
Because you want a family, right?
Courtney Chassis:
... they don't exist. They're out there.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
But it's a matter of finding them. And I think the pandemic happened, and I don't think much has to do with COVID, but we are living in a constantly changing world right now.
Denalee Bell:
We are.
Courtney Chassis:
And-
Denalee Bell:
And it's uncertain. Does it feel like more uncertainty than ever?
Courtney Chassis:
It's unpredictable.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Absolutely. And there are questions. And I want the same thing that I've wanted since I was five years old. I want the family. I want a husband. I want the white picket fence. I want all of it. But where do I find that without having to compromise?
Denalee Bell:
Especially in this world where we're sold a completely different bill of goods. That you should have sex and live with somebody before you get married, you know what I mean? It's the opposite of everything God says. And so, it's easy to compromise those values.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
So, how do you feel about sex before marriage?
Courtney Chassis:
Well, that's a heavy one. Or it should be.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm pretty blunt, and I'll be completely straightforward. It's off the table. It's not an option. In my mind, we'll have the conversation because it's needed to have-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... but it needs to be had once and that's all. Until the wedding night, there will be no sex because that's not what I'm after in the long term.
Denalee Bell:
Is that so hard in today's day and age where it seems it's so worldly and secularly and it's just so acceptable?
Courtney Chassis:
Well, it's the standard.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. It is.
Courtney Chassis:
It is the standard for most relationships. And I'm not shaming that, but, when I-
Denalee Bell:
You didn't get us there, hon.
Courtney Chassis:
When I reestablished my faith years ago, and it wasn't in a moment. It wasn't like I'm going to make this decision, and I haven't slipped up after. I have. But when I started shifting my priorities and asking myself what I really want, long-term what I need, and what will honor God, things started changing then. And that's when I started becoming more straightforward on first dates, a little more assertive, a little more firm in this is what I want, this is what I need, and this is doing it the right way, and I'm after doing it the right way.
Denalee Bell:
Have you been rejected when you did that? Has somebody not called you back after that?
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's fine. It's not-
Denalee Bell:
That's good.
Courtney Chassis:
It's not personal.
Denalee Bell:
He's not your normal guy.
Courtney Chassis:
Why would I want that type of man?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
That's not what I'm after. I'm not-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... his type of woman or he's not-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... my type of man.
Denalee Bell:
Did it hurt?
Courtney Chassis:
I think rejection always hurts.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
It's natural to not be favored, not be called back, not be chosen.
Denalee Bell:
Nobody likes that, right?
Courtney Chassis:
But at the same time, I'm not for everyone, and we're designed to be created for one. I'm meant to be reserved for one. I don't want to be for everyone, or else how overwhelming would that be?
Denalee Bell:
Oh, my goodness.
Courtney Chassis:
That sounds terrible.
Denalee Bell:
So, I was telling you a story the other day about how when it would sell real estate, we would take people's to home. They would tell me exactly what they wanted. I want the three bedrooms, two bath, whatever it is. They had a entire list-
Courtney Chassis:
Specific criteria.
Denalee Bell:
... and this is all we will buy. And then, you take them. And then, by the end of the trip, they've seen exactly they wanted and that's not what they actually wanted. Do you find that-
Courtney Chassis:
What they want is changing.
Denalee Bell:
Do you find that-
Courtney Chassis:
They don't even know what they want.
Denalee Bell:
Do you find that that ever happens to you in the dating world where you really have this checklist of things that you want, but you find that you'll get into a relationship and compromise?
Courtney Chassis:
Yes, yes, and yes to all the above. I mean, I think that's the process of dating. And it's not to say no one knows what they want. I think I know what I want until I see what I don't want. And it's a lot of self-reflection. It's a lot of evaluation. I'm constantly changing as a person-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... as a Christian, as a conservative woman. I don't want to say my values are constantly changing, but who I am-
Denalee Bell:
Maybe increasing?
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Who I am, what I'm looking for, and I'd bring needs into this. Definitely my needs are changing as I get older and as I figure out what does work with my lifestyle? What is going to support my dreams, what I'm after longterm? And just because you think you know what you want doesn't mean you do, for one.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
It doesn't mean that you have to have these concrete answers. And I have been wrong a lot of the time. I've gotten into relationships that I may be complacent, I may be happy, I may be content for a while, and then it dawns on me that, whether it's a result of me changing or them or me just opening my eyes, like, "Hey, this isn't working."
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Four months in, maybe it may be a year in, "This isn't working." And that's okay to have the flexibility.
Denalee Bell:
Because you know it's not going to end in marriage the way you want it to.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
So, when you first start dating something or somebody or looking, what are you looking for in that person?
Courtney Chassis:
How much time do you have?
Denalee Bell:
I think I'm detecting something here.
Courtney Chassis:
I don't want it-
Denalee Bell:
Just the top five things. Tall, dark, handsome, makes X amount of money a year.
Courtney Chassis:
None of the above. That's not even-
Denalee Bell:
There you go.
Courtney Chassis:
... important to me.
Denalee Bell:
Thank you.
Courtney Chassis:
I'll take the physical attributes off the table.
Denalee Bell:
But, I mean, you have to be physically attracted. At [inaudible 00:14:42], we did make a conversation or no?
Courtney Chassis:
No.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking physical attraction out of it.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
I think that's important.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
Christian or not, it's very important. Ladies, it's important. You've got to-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... have, what do the old-
Denalee Bell:
Chemistry?
Courtney Chassis:
... people call it? The hots?
Denalee Bell:
We call it chemistry. We've got to have the hots for him.
Courtney Chassis:
You've got to have the hots for him.
Denalee Bell:
The old people?
Courtney Chassis:
Chemistry is-
Denalee Bell:
People my age?
Courtney Chassis:
Chemistry is huge. So, is compatibility. You've got to have the physical connection, obviously, right?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
I guess I say that in such a casual manner because that goes without saying.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
That's a no-brainer. But beyond that, do you have shared faith? Do you have shared values? Do you have a shared vision of what you want your future to look like? And I'm talking 10 years down the road. Granted, I want the same thing for the next year, but I also want the same thing for the next 50 years. I want the consistent to be changed because I'm always changing. But you asked me what I'm looking for in a partner beyond the physical connection, beyond the chemistry, beyond the obvious. The communication has to be there. Those are all important. Those are fundamental. But if we're getting specific, I would say I'm looking for husband material. I want-
Denalee Bell:
Somebody who wants to be a husband.
Courtney Chassis:
I want to see someone want to take care of me. And I'm not talking financially.
Denalee Bell:
Why not?
Courtney Chassis:
I'm talking emotionally. I'm talking spiritually. I want someone-
Denalee Bell:
But why not? Why wouldn't you want him to be able to take care of you financially?
Courtney Chassis:
I do.
Denalee Bell:
So, we just did a podcast on toxic femininity where we have beat it out of women and men that it's okay for them to be providers when, innately, they want to be providers, and we actually want them to provide. And we're trying to pretend like that's not a thing. And I wonder if, girls your age, if that's something you guys have learned that's wrong to expect.
Courtney Chassis:
Maybe it hasn't been shamed or maybe it hasn't been frowned upon. I think the majority, well, it seems as though the majority, that's a consensus on social media or popular opinion.
Denalee Bell:
Because your feed. The people are your age probably, right?
Courtney Chassis:
Sure, sure. I want a man who wants to take care of me.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
I've got it.
Denalee Bell:
And you want to take care of him and the family.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Courtney Chassis:
And that's a team.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
I want to be a mom, and I want to be a wife.
Denalee Bell:
You don't want to sit at home and just eat bon-bons-
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
... and watch soaps.
Courtney Chassis:
I want to be-
Denalee Bell:
I don't even know if that's a thing anymore.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm not going to sit here and say I need to be a princess. Of course, I need to be treated, right?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
That's a whole separate conversation. But financially, if we're just talking money, yeah, I have needs.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
I want to be provided for. If we are going to be a team, and I'm going to take care of the kids and I'm going to make a home, I expect them to provide for me, to take care of me, and it has nothing to do with the money. I want, not only a spiritual leader, but I need a man who will pull his weight. If I'm doing my job, what's his job?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
And-
Denalee Bell:
I think that's fair.
Courtney Chassis:
... call it traditional. That's very traditional.
Denalee Bell:
That is very traditional. I was actually going to ask you about that. So, you beat me to it.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, and I could go on. I don't want to elaborate too much.
Denalee Bell:
No, you can.
Courtney Chassis:
But I've had a career. I've taken care of myself just fine over the past decade plus. I can. I don't need to prove it to anyone, female or males.
Denalee Bell:
Right. Good for you.
Courtney Chassis:
Great. I'm an independent woman. Call it what you will. I don't know.
Denalee Bell:
See, that's what they sold us that we had to be.
Courtney Chassis:
It is, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Or you're wrong or bad if you are.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
If you don't want that.
Courtney Chassis:
My thing is that I want a man's man. It's not even about [inaudible 00:18:59]-
Denalee Bell:
You want a strong man-
Courtney Chassis:
And that, too, but-
Denalee Bell:
... who is willing to provide for you and take care of you and cherish you.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
I think every woman wants that, even though they lie about it.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, and maybe that is a category. Maybe those are the ones needing to prove themselves, or trying to be so independent that they don't need a man. Don't get me wrong. I don't need a man. I don't need much. But what do I want?
Denalee Bell:
But I think you do. If you want what you want in life, you need a man.
Courtney Chassis:
To support my dreams, sure.
Denalee Bell:
You need a man.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Right? We need men because they take, I don't know, a lot of hard jobs that none of us do. I've never seen a woman trash collector.
Courtney Chassis:
And they can have it.
Denalee Bell:
We need men.
Courtney Chassis:
I don't want it.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. I am just saying, I am hearing this mantra on TikTok about, it's a whole hashtag, we don't need men.
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And so, you might've hit a hot button because we just filmed Toxic Femininity. And I believe that we've been sold some stories that aren't true.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I believe we came by it honestly. I think that there was a feminist movement, and they sold us a story. And there was also a shift in our culture where divorce was bigger and women had to take care of themselves, and they weren't ready to or prepared to. They weren't educated. They didn't have skills. And they were forced in the '80s to take care of themselves. And kids like me saw that.
Courtney Chassis:
Are a product of it.
Denalee Bell:
And we're like, "Okay, I'm going to take care of myself. I do not need a man." And I think-
Courtney Chassis:
Look what mom did.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, yeah. I need to make sure that I can always take care of me and my kids because you can't count on your husband. Even though we've been together almost 30 years.
Courtney Chassis:
And there's something admirable-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... about that.
Denalee Bell:
Well, the problem with it is, in a marriage or in a relationship, is I'm not trusting in the relationship. So, I always had one foot out the door just waiting for him to say, "Okay, this isn't going to work." So, I've got to be able to make X amount of money at all times, or I've got to be making it already.
Courtney Chassis:
You have an escape route, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. And it wasn't fair to him or my kids or me because it was a lie-
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
... and he was never on his way out.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, you have your walls up-
Denalee Bell:
Yep.
Courtney Chassis:
... your options open.
Denalee Bell:
Yep.
Courtney Chassis:
You're ready to go if shit hits the fan.
Denalee Bell:
And I think this whole toxic masculinity thing that we've been sold, that all men are toxic, is a lie, too. But that's what we've been prepared for. And this is just my theory on life based on my small case study.
Courtney Chassis:
But that's what life is. It's experiences.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
It's who you are. It's what you know. It's exposure. I know you had a podcast just on this, and so I don't want to get into that too much, but the toxic masculinity. I could go on for days. I mean, I guess I laugh, and I have this sarcastic approach to it because it seems so funny to me. And it's a joke without being a joke because our world is taking it so seriously-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... and I just can't.
Denalee Bell:
And I believe there are some toxic men out there.
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
I don't think it's-
Courtney Chassis:
I'm not denying there aren't.
Denalee Bell:
... the whole of them and it's all of them. I do not.
Courtney Chassis:
I think there are some toxic females out there.
Denalee Bell:
Women. Yeah, that was our podcast.
Courtney Chassis:
There's lots of them.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, one of them, apparently. I hit every check mark.
Courtney Chassis:
Congratulations,
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
You've made it.
Denalee Bell:
I know who I am now.
Courtney Chassis:
Not everyone's traditional. Not everyone is going to share my opinions, and that's fine. I'm not asking anyone.
Denalee Bell:
You're not making anyone. You're just trying to attract, right?
Courtney Chassis:
I am speaking my own. But it's this whole toxic culture that we live in. And I can't not sit back and just giggle because it's so ironic. Was this around 50 years ago? Where did this come from? What is the stem?
Denalee Bell:
I will do a complete podcast on that coming up.
Courtney Chassis:
You can see the result. You can see the consequences right now.
Denalee Bell:
It came from the feminist movement.
Courtney Chassis:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, in the '60s. I mean, it is completely about that. And it was the goal. This was the goal. Ending the family was the goal. And they won. Because-
Courtney Chassis:
Look at our households now.
Denalee Bell:
... we had broken families in the '80s, completely broken.
Courtney Chassis:
Yep.
Denalee Bell:
And they want to promote abortion. I mean, this was where they were in the '60s, and we are completely there. And it is a Marxist agenda, and it was designed by women who dabbled in witchcraft.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And it's a serious thing that, me, I followed this. I thought I was one of this. I was like, "I'm a feminist. Hear me roar." I was that girl.
Courtney Chassis:
But we've been there.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
We were sold to the lies.
Denalee Bell:
I was. I'm sad. And I get why it happened, right? It had to happen because there was some behavior that was wrong, and the pendulum swung and it's just swinging back. I hope because I do worry about there's marriage declining right now, right? It's on the decline. People aren't seeing it. So, that tells me the value of family is being even more destroyed where it's not important. And I think it's one of the most stabilizing institutions of our society is to have a mom and dad. And I get it can't always happen. I get it doesn't always work. I wouldn't ever want somebody to stay in a toxic environment where they were being abused or hurt or any of that. I'm not saying work it out with your abuser. I'm not that girl.
Courtney Chassis:
And we'll touch base on divorce later on.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Touchy subject for a lot of people. But-
Denalee Bell:
It is.
Courtney Chassis:
... sometimes it is necessary. And I say that as a Christian woman.
Denalee Bell:
It is. And because you have been divorced, correct?
Courtney Chassis:
I have. It was an annulment, but, yeah, I was married at, gosh, this is going to age me. 10 years ago. I was 21. I was a kid. I was a little baby.
Denalee Bell:
That is really young.
Courtney Chassis:
And I could say I was young and dumb, but it wasn't even that. Or it wasn't just that. Did I have lack of judgment? Sure. That's probably half of it.
Denalee Bell:
Did you know who you were at that point?
Courtney Chassis:
No. Does anyone?
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
21.
Denalee Bell:
I'm 51. Still figuring it.
Courtney Chassis:
Do you know who you are now?
Denalee Bell:
I'm still learning it.
Courtney Chassis:
I look at my life now, and it's like, "Oh, I'm learning day by day."
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
I thought I had it all figured out.
Denalee Bell:
I know it. Just wait until you my age.
Courtney Chassis:
And it's comical.
Denalee Bell:
You just realize how little you knew. I've given so much advice, I'm like, "A-ha."
Courtney Chassis:
I'm like, "Oh, I met the guy that I'm supposed to be with forever. Score. That's the last thing I'll ever have to think about." And-
Denalee Bell:
Oh, my goodness.
Courtney Chassis:
You're just-
Denalee Bell:
You know better than that. You've had phone calls with me.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. Shame on me. I was so fooled. But that's life. I mean, circumstances happened. I was not supposed to be there. And so, I got out of there really fast. And I'll spare you the story for the sake of the podcast, mostly. But unless you want to hear it.
Denalee Bell:
I, of course, want to hear it, but it's up to you to share it.
Courtney Chassis:
I never thought I'd say yes, only to not make that yes forever. I never thought divorce was an option. Annulment, I never thought that it would come to that. And yet, life is messy. I knew who I was at that time. I had the faith, I had the values. Even though I was going down this liberal path at the time, I thought I knew who I was. And I thought I knew who my partner was. And it wasn't infidelity, it wasn't anything like that. But he actually ended up going off the deep end. Mental illness that he still denies to this day, and that's all I'll say to that. But it was a couple of years of pure chaos. And I guess as I speak on this in the perspective of a Christian 31-year-old woman, I look back, and it's taken 10 years for me to fully process, and it's going to continue taking me the rest of my life to really understand what happened.
Denalee Bell:
What forever changed you.
Courtney Chassis:
But in that, yes, on the bright side, it forever changed me [inaudible 00:27:23].
Denalee Bell:
Well, I'm wondering now, after hearing that story, I think you're picky.
Courtney Chassis:
Who me?
Denalee Bell:
Do you think you are?
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, that's a tricky question. Is that why I'm single? Is that what you-
Denalee Bell:
No. What I was wondering is, the story you just told me, has it made you gun shy? Has it made you extra cautious?
Courtney Chassis:
I think it has. I think-
Denalee Bell:
Are you less tolerant of when you see something?
Courtney Chassis:
Yes. I run-
Denalee Bell:
Yep.
Courtney Chassis:
The opposite direction. Not only because I'm scared, but I think I am straightforward because I don't want to waste time. And that is my biggest fear in this life is, theirs either, but mostly mine. Let's be honest. I'm a little selfish. I don't want to waste my time. I've wasted enough time. I wasted five years in that relationship marriage. Granted, my argument is, or my counter argument is that it wasn't being wasted. It was all that valuable experience. But-
Denalee Bell:
You're so much closer to knowing who you are when you go through that.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Courtney Chassis:
And-
Denalee Bell:
And knowing what you can tolerate in life.
Courtney Chassis:
... give glory to God for that experience because He redeemed me from that situation, but it wasn't His will to put me in there in the first place. That was my free will. I chose the wrong path.
Denalee Bell:
Did you know that you weren't supposed to be in that from the start?
Courtney Chassis:
Looking back, yeah. I think you always do.
Denalee Bell:
Do you ever find sometimes, so sometimes when I really want something, I won't pray to God about it because I don't want Him to say no.
Courtney Chassis:
Have you been reading my diary?
Denalee Bell:
Do you ever do that? When you're meeting-
Courtney Chassis:
Never.
Denalee Bell:
... somebody new because you like him and you want it to work?
Courtney Chassis:
All the time. All the time. And I would say that happens with the worldly men that I let myself meet and start dating and entertain the idea.
Denalee Bell:
Because you already know.
Courtney Chassis:
Because [inaudible 00:29:32]-
Denalee Bell:
You already know what God's going to say. Let's be honest.
Courtney Chassis:
I already know the answer, and that's why I pray those prayers. I don't have the same fear when it comes to a godly man that, whether or not he is meant for me or not, I'm not worried about what God's going to say. It's either an experience that is part of the plan, or it's meant to be. But if it's a godly man who's good for me or good for my life at that time, at least, what do I have to worry about? God will probably say, "Yes, he's good in your life right now. You're where you're supposed to be and so is he." It's when I know the answer is no that I don't want to hear the answer. I already know.
Denalee Bell:
[inaudible 00:30:21].
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
We all do that in areas of our life, right? That we know-
Courtney Chassis:
God, I'll get back to you in four months.
Denalee Bell:
I know better. He just doesn't get it this time.
Courtney Chassis:
Let me just have fun.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. There's got to be some red flags that come up for you. Is there any time that there's a red flag where you're just like, "No, this is it." First date, second date, or even a month in, you're like, "Okay, these are red flags. I can't do this. This is too much. I can't compromise on this?" Besides faith.
Courtney Chassis:
I think I see red better than I see green.
Denalee Bell:
I think so, too.
Courtney Chassis:
If that makes sense.
Denalee Bell:
It does.
Courtney Chassis:
And I'm attracted to red. Red's actually one of my favorite colors. So, it's funny you ask. What are my red flags besides the lack of shared faith? Going back to the equally yoked. I've dated guys just recently, I've been in relationships with men just recently who I know I haven't been equally yoked with. I think we all have a different definition of what equally yoked actually means. Have they been believers?
Denalee Bell:
What is your definition of equally yoked?
Courtney Chassis:
Are they praising the same God? Do they have a relationship with God, my God, our God? It's more than just believing, to an extent.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
But a lot of people take it one step further and they say, "My partner, or this new guy, has to be on the same level as I am. We went to Bible school the first year together, and does he get it? Does he have the same wisdom? Does he have the same discernment?" All of that.
Denalee Bell:
Do you know anybody on the exact same level you're on?
Courtney Chassis:
How do you measure that?
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, I don't-
Courtney Chassis:
How do you measure that?
Denalee Bell:
I don't know how you do that.
Courtney Chassis:
Are you ever going to be in the same spot as your partner?
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
Can you be?
Denalee Bell:
I mean, my husband and I haven't been. It's like a slingshot. One's forward, one's back. It's an interesting thing. But I did like what you said at the beginning about equally yoked, about having the shared faith, the same God. We're praying to the same God and having a relationship with God, a real true relationship. I think that's important.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
But do I demand He studies the Bible as much as I do? No, that's up to him. That's his relationship.
Courtney Chassis:
That's his relationship.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
It's all personal.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
And, again, within your relationship, our relationships with God, they are fluid. They're not always going to be up here. They're not always going to be down here.
Denalee Bell:
But don't you want somebody that's going to slingshot you back up when you go down?
Courtney Chassis:
I want someone to lift me up-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... to encourage me to inspire me.
Denalee Bell:
And you're going to lift him up sometimes. I mean, it's a dance, peaks and valleys. So, being unequally yoked would be a no. You'll run from that, but do you find that out the first night? Because I have a son who, when he was dating before he got a serious girlfriend, he would call me and tell me he was dating a new girl. And I'd go like, "Oh, is she a Christian." And they'd be on four or five dates, and he didn't know. I'm like, "How do you not know?"
Courtney Chassis:
He didn't know?
Denalee Bell:
How do you not know she's a Christian yet? He didn't want to ask her.
Courtney Chassis:
Isn't that the number one conversation?
Denalee Bell:
Well, he wasn't there in his faith where you're at, because he was a young man and that wasn't a priority. See, this is a priority and a value for you. I don't know that it was for him.
Courtney Chassis:
Well [inaudible 00:33:44]-
Denalee Bell:
I think he would know now where he is in his faith. Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm listening for that. If they don't bring it up, if they don't bring it up-
Denalee Bell:
For him, it would've been a bonus
Courtney Chassis:
... in conversation within the first, let's say, 20 minutes.
Denalee Bell:
You don't ask?
Courtney Chassis:
That's a red flag.
Denalee Bell:
You don't ask first? Oh, okay. Now that's-
Courtney Chassis:
But I would expect them to bring it up first.
Denalee Bell:
In the first 20 minutes?
Courtney Chassis:
Like sex, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
First 20 minutes?
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And that's a red flag, too?
Courtney Chassis:
Because if it's not in the first-
Denalee Bell:
We need to-
Courtney Chassis:
20 Minutes-
Denalee Bell:
We need to investigate your red flags more.
Courtney Chassis:
Okay, a half hour.
Denalee Bell:
I think-
Courtney Chassis:
Half hour?
Denalee Bell:
I don't know if we're talking about the same meaning of the word red flag.
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, I know red flags.
Denalee Bell:
I'm totally joking. I'm totally joking.
Courtney Chassis:
I guess the way I see it is, if they're-
Denalee Bell:
Proud of their faith?
Courtney Chassis:
If it's not, yeah, that, too. But if it's not a priority for them, why wouldn't they bring it up in the first half hour, hour?
Denalee Bell:
Had you have already brought it up?
Courtney Chassis:
Probably. I usually beat them to it.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
But I would expect-
Denalee Bell:
Them to reciprocate.
Courtney Chassis:
... anyone. Man or woman.
Denalee Bell:
Right, okay. If you had brought it up, and they didn't reciprocate, you would know.
Courtney Chassis:
It usually comes out in, "Hey, this is where I go to church." I don't know, "This is my lifestyle. This is how my week looks like on Sundays..."
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Or whatever the case.
Denalee Bell:
So, not speaking up quickly enough about their faith is a red flag. What about-
Courtney Chassis:
Okay, I [inaudible 00:35:08]-
Denalee Bell:
I'm totally teasing you. I'm totally joking. So, what other red flags do you have?
Courtney Chassis:
They have a ring on their finger.
Denalee Bell:
That is a really good one. That's a really good red flag. Or a tan line.
Courtney Chassis:
Or a tan line, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Where a ring goes.
Courtney Chassis:
Maybe a tattoo.
Denalee Bell:
Those are good red flags.
Courtney Chassis:
Faith, I'm not expecting them to take sex off the table. Most men don't, Christian or not, let's just be honest. Within the first hour, I will say something by the end of the night if it's not brought up. But when I'm going on a, let's just say, first date with someone or agreeing to a first date, veganism, no. I'll set that aside.
Denalee Bell:
I mean, that is a huge red flag.
Courtney Chassis:
Set the man buns aside. Some of these are-
Denalee Bell:
My oldest son has a man bun.
Courtney Chassis:
[inaudible 00:36:01].
Denalee Bell:
It's so cute. But he does eat red meat.
Courtney Chassis:
Okay. And we can be flexible. I have my priorities straight. Does he love the Lord?
Denalee Bell:
He's on his journey.
Courtney Chassis:
Okay.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Maybe not equally yoked, but-
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
... God is in his life.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
When it comes to red flags, I mean, those are the deal breakers. Those are the big things for me. Those are the faith. Those are the same vision. What does he want? Is he after a family? Does he not want kids? That's probably not going to work out for me because I do want kids. I do want to be a mom. I do want to be a wife. Does he have the potential to be a spiritual leader? Those are things that are learned in time. But if I see, right off the bat, that, I don't know, he is into just this lifestyle that is absolutely not compatible with mine, it's probably-
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
... not going to be a yes for me.
Denalee Bell:
I mean, that's a good red flag.
Courtney Chassis:
No bigs.
Denalee Bell:
But it's a cautionary like, "Okay, that's not probably going to work though." Most men's single men lifestyles do look different than a married when they get married because it's different.
Courtney Chassis:
[inaudible 00:37:07] They're a bachelor.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
They're still in that mode.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. So ,what if their bathroom's filthy?
Courtney Chassis:
So, here's the deal.
Denalee Bell:
So, I can have germ issues.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm a little type A. But it also doesn't mean that I'm going to exclude someone who isn't as type A as me. In fact, I look for the opposites because I can clean up after someone. That's not a non-negotiable.
Denalee Bell:
But what if they trim their beard-
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, the little hairs.
Denalee Bell:
T... the little hairs all over the bathroom.
Courtney Chassis:
Drives me nuts. And I've had it in every relationship.
Denalee Bell:
It's makes me angry because I love the beard.
Courtney Chassis:
That's where I've gone wrong, though.
Denalee Bell:
The problem is I love the man, the beard-
Courtney Chassis:
The facial hair.
Denalee Bell:
I do. I love it. It's a man.
Courtney Chassis:
A red flag would be no facial hair.
Denalee Bell:
I've tried to get him to do it outside. Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
There's got to be a solution.
Denalee Bell:
There has to be.
Courtney Chassis:
There's got to be a solution.
Denalee Bell:
I hope you find it.
Courtney Chassis:
It's a trade off. I'm willing to accept that so I can have the eye candy. I'm willing to accept-
Denalee Bell:
Me, too.
Courtney Chassis:
Probably a lot of things.
Denalee Bell:
How about if they smoke pot?
Courtney Chassis:
Ooh, that's a fun one.
Denalee Bell:
Do the kids call it pot still?
Courtney Chassis:
I think they call it pot, Mary Jane, herb-
Denalee Bell:
What are the kids calling it?
Courtney Chassis:
... Herb, weed. Would that be a deal breaker? It hasn't been.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
It hasn't been in the past.
Denalee Bell:
Do most guys your age do that?
Courtney Chassis:
I am the wrong person to ask for most men or the generalization.
Denalee Bell:
The most guys you date. Or do you meet guys that don't smoke pot on your dates?
Courtney Chassis:
It's not common. I've dated Christian men who smoke.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
In fact, most of the Christian men I've dated have been, not pot heads, but they smoke their share.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
There's not a problem with the age. It's an issue when-
Denalee Bell:
That's interesting because I hear a lot of men justifying the herbal.
Courtney Chassis:
It's in the Bible.
Denalee Bell:
I mean, I don't smoke pot, so I mean, it's not my deal to judge.
Courtney Chassis:
It's there Genesis, right? [inaudible 00:39:03]
Denalee Bell:
Yes. It's adorable. What about a guy who drinks?
Courtney Chassis:
I mean, I would say most of our first dates start over drinks, whether it's coffee or something stronger. Me, too. I mean, I'm not excluding myself. How can I ask a guy not to drink if I'm drinking? And why? Do I want someone who doesn't drink? Not really. I mean, I'm not looking for that. I'm not asking them to be abstinent in anything. I'm not looking for-
Denalee Bell:
What about porn?
Courtney Chassis:
... porn addict. I'm not looking for a porn addict.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. But-
Courtney Chassis:
I-
Denalee Bell:
... what if they watch porn? I mean, there's just some sin.-
Courtney Chassis:
How can I be looking for perfect if I'm not perfect myself?
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
We all have our own struggles. We all have our own battles. Porn isn't it for me? Never has been. But I've had my own demons and skeletons in my closet. So, who am I to point fingers and say that-
Denalee Bell:
So, somebody who watches porn is, maybe, okay, but how about addictions?
Courtney Chassis:
It's a question mark. I mean, yeah, it is a red flag.
Denalee Bell:
Okay, I'm thinking, I mean, I'm not going to run your life because I'm not your mama, and you're 31. I think that we should maybe move that one up the ladder. And if they don't talk about faith in 20 minutes, just down a few. If we get this-
Courtney Chassis:
Quick balance? Now on a serious level-
Denalee Bell:
If I were just running your life and I'm not.
Courtney Chassis:
But your influence matters. On a serious level-
Denalee Bell:
No, I care about you is all.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
The porn question-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... is-
Denalee Bell:
It's so acceptable now. It's so weird to me.
Courtney Chassis:
It's never been an issue.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
And so, I guess by experience, it's like-
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
... maybe that's one of those no-brainers, too. It's like, well, that would be a question.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
That would be a huge issue-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... if it was an issue, because it's never been. And I think that's something that's learned-
Denalee Bell:
Well, that's good because, in this day and age, I think it's a huge problem. Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... you find that out over time.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
That's something that's never going to come up on the first date.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
That's hardly ever going to-
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
... be admitted to.
Denalee Bell:
It's so interesting. We just didn't have the stuff to deal with like you guys did.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
We didn't have the internet and accessibility to these Only Fans and girls and paid subscriptions for things. We just didn't have it. So, it wasn't a thing.
Courtney Chassis:
Right. It is a thing now.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, it is definitely. I hear about it.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, on both-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... sides. Both genders.
Denalee Bell:
I know. I just recently met a woman with a porn addiction issue that she was working, fighting through, and she worked through it with God. And it was really eyeopening because it just hadn't occurred to me because I'm 51.
Courtney Chassis:
We're not innocent.
Denalee Bell:
I'm 51.
Courtney Chassis:
We're not exempt.
Denalee Bell:
No, it was just women are-
Courtney Chassis:
Same-
Denalee Bell:
... different sometimes.
Courtney Chassis:
... women and drug issues or-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... pot.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
I used to be a stoner girl.
Denalee Bell:
You were?
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I can't even see that.
Courtney Chassis:
That sounds so-
Denalee Bell:
That's adorable.
Courtney Chassis:
... [inaudible 00:42:01] as I say it. But it got me through school. It got me through. I mean, it was a chapter of my life. And I don't necessarily regret it, or would have done it differently, it was a season of my life.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
And I'm not saying I never don't smoke, but I'm not sitting in front of the video games and with the munchies-
Denalee Bell:
Okay, that's a red flag for me.
Courtney Chassis:
... and with no job. I'm not unemployed. So, it hasn't become an issue for me.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. If I was dating, for me, a red flag would be, I would never have to because I married the love of my life. But if, I don't know. Those video games drive me nuts. A video gamer guy who could sit and do that, or even do you know what drives me nuts? It's guys who sit and watch football all day and drink beer.
Courtney Chassis:
On Sunday or not? Is it Sunday?
Denalee Bell:
I don't know. Just for eight hours. It's just weird to me that you could do that.
Courtney Chassis:
Maybe that's an addiction.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Maybe that would be a red flag.
To me, it's a red flag for me because I know I would be like, "That's gross."
Courtney Chassis:
Well, they're addicted to the couch.
Denalee Bell:
But that's just for me. I get that it's a normal thing that guys do.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I'm just grateful. My man goes fishing, and I dig that I can go with and read a book, and he can do his thing. I do my thing. It's just we work together. We're compatible.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
But there's some things that would be, not red flags to the general public, but to me be like, "Oh, no. You're a gamer? This isn't going to be."
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, this isn't going to work out.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
So, when it comes to personal red flags, besides the faith and besides the values, those are so obvious to me that it feels like I don't even have to mention them, but I will for the sake of the podcast. I moved from Seattle two and a half years ago to Idaho for a reason.
Denalee Bell:
Was that during COVID?
Courtney Chassis:
That was January 2021.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. After, mid-
Courtney Chassis:
Mid, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Right. But right in the middle. I was a minority in Seattle [inaudible 00:43:55].
Denalee Bell:
So, you were a conservative. You had conservative values then
Courtney Chassis:
Let's just say, I didn't vote for Biden.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
And won't ever, if he's still alive here in a few days.
Denalee Bell:
I don't think you'll have a chance to, I think, though.
Courtney Chassis:
It's not even about the man buns, about the veganism. I have jokes. I'm-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... a pretty sarcastic person, sorry in advance. But-
Denalee Bell:
It's hard to eat a steak.
Courtney Chassis:
... not to you, but to everyone else.
Denalee Bell:
It's hard to eat a steak in front of a vegan. I mean, it's just hard.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm not going to apologize for the rest of my life-
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
... when I'm chopping-
Denalee Bell:
Who you are.
Courtney Chassis:
... red meat.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Raw, bloody, red meat. Love it.
Denalee Bell:
Me, too.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm getting turned on as I talk about it.
Denalee Bell:
I love it.
Courtney Chassis:
There's not only a reason I moved, but just when it comes to the dating scene, I wasn't having much luck in Seattle. This isn't a political podcast, but when we're touching on that-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, your political views might make a difference, right?
Courtney Chassis:
I think it's all connected when it comes to, and I'm not even bringing the faith into it, but a lot of it's connected when we're talking about traditional values and what I'm looking for. And-
Denalee Bell:
The other side just doesn't seem to have that.
Courtney Chassis:
I have a career right now, but do I want to be a stay home mom someday? Absolutely. Do most men in Seattle? And this is absolutely a generalization, and-
Denalee Bell:
The most men you met.
Courtney Chassis:
... I'm going to put them in categories because most men I've met, in my experience, would they ever have supported that dream or that vision of becoming and being a stay-at-home Mom? Probably not. It was equality back there, in my experience. It was you pull-
Denalee Bell:
Which is the lie.
Courtney Chassis:
... financially, you pull your own weight.
Denalee Bell:
Because it is equal.
Courtney Chassis:
You have to be independent-
Denalee Bell:
Try running a household and take care and support your husband and your children.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
It's still not equal. It's not equal.
Courtney Chassis:
Let me clean a house and have two careers just to make enough that-
Denalee Bell:
That we can pay for daycare.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. Which doesn't make sense at all-
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
... because you're paying the same for daycare as you're making in a paycheck.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. It doesn't make sense.
Courtney Chassis:
It doesn't make sense. Defeats the purpose. But I digress. It's going back to, and it's not just Washington or my roots, but it is just my experience altogether. I was in long distance relationships. I was with a guy from Denver, and that's not much better these days. But-
Denalee Bell:
I was just there last week. No, you're right.
Courtney Chassis:
... here's what I'll say. That was a conservative guy. It worked until it didn't work for other reasons. I've dated non-conservative or traditional men, and they've somehow worked. And then, we've broken it off for other reasons. It had nothing to do with politics or values or any of that.
Denalee Bell:
But when you see somebody with opposing views, is that a red flag for you?
Courtney Chassis:
In our current world, and I hate to say this, but yes. Because it speaks to their-
Denalee Bell:
Is that new in the last two years? Or has that always been for you?
Courtney Chassis:
It's new. It's becoming a thing now. Maybe five years ago it wasn't, and a lot of it's because I've changed as a person, my opinions and views have changed.
Denalee Bell:
I think society has changed, too.
Courtney Chassis:
But the world is changing.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. And when I was growing up, I don't think we ever knew what anybody was thinking politically. And though this is hard because it's so divisive, I think it's good because you get to know who you are and what you really like and what you believe. And I think that's what COVID changed for all of us in a good way. Okay, what do I believe? What do I believe? And I think a line in the sand gets drawn, when you're like, "Okay, I do believe this. I don't know. I can be friends with you, I can love you, but I don't think I want to be married to somebody who-"
Courtney Chassis:
From afar.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. I mean, I convinced my husband he had white privilege. I thought I was a complete liberal because I cared about the environment. I thought all of those things. And he put up with me. But would he now? No. No, he would put up with me because married. But if I were to die and he were to date again?
Courtney Chassis:
Would he choose you with-
Denalee Bell:
He wouldn't choose somebody with those values.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
They're not even values. I thought I was somebody because I cared about the environment, and I had some liberal views. And I didn't understand that maybe the other side did, too. They just wanted to go about it differently.
Courtney Chassis:
But isn't that all of us? We have different phases.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
We have different seasons, or chapters, whatever you want to call it in life.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
We have different identities.
Denalee Bell:
I would say that's true. But I would say this last two or three elections has really changed people and how they view things. And I think rightfully so, and it's been a blessing. I wish we could get past the division and get back to chatting about it. But truly, I don't know that I'd want to date either somebody who didn't have similar core values. I don't want to be fighting with somebody and arguing all the time because we do talk about politics in our home. We do talk about what's going on in the world. We talk about economics. We have to understand what's going financially in the world to be able to make business decisions.
Courtney Chassis:
Those decisions, absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
And savings and investing decisions. And I think it would be hard to make those decisions with somebody who didn't understand what was happening.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, I think just as in business relationships or friendships or-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... when it comes to relationships at church or people I know at church, again, it's not even about the politics, but it's-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... about the character it speaks to. It's about-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... we are in a divided world, in a divided nation right now, and it's not about taking sides, but it's about everything that comes with everything that results of what side you're on. Who are you?
Denalee Bell:
It almost feels like we have to take a side, not because we need to love everyone. We're called to love everyone, but we also need to take a side or take a stand-
Courtney Chassis:
Take a stand.
Denalee Bell:
... or what we believe in. And I think for so many years, conservative people have shut their mouth. And now, I think we've went too far, even conservatives, with screeching, with the yelling, with the hate because we're frustrated, right? We're frustrated with some of the things that are going on, and it's coming off a little harsh. There's our politics for the show. But I think if we could actually sit with my liberal friends in here-
Courtney Chassis:
And have a conversation.
Denalee Bell:
... yeah, we'd all love each other-
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
... and it would be fine. But it's because we're not connected anymore. And we're talking on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram at each other instead of to each other in this connected way like you and I do.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, we talk at them.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
We don't talk with them. And I'm saying, all of us-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... we talk at each other, not with each other.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And we don't hear-
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
... and we don't listen.
Courtney Chassis:
Hey, that's why we have a podcast.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
We're trying to change that. We're trying to have those conversations.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
And that's why we are here.
Denalee Bell:
Because I do identify with some liberal values. I do. And I do identify with a lot of conservative values. Just maybe the ones on the conservative side are really obvious, right? Because I'm a Christian.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. But when we're right and they're wrong.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, that was funny.
Courtney Chassis:
It's not about the labels. It's not about the categories.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
But I don't want to be in a household that I can't have these honest conversations.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
And I also don't want to be in a household with people I can't respect. And I certainly don't want to be in a relationship with someone-
Denalee Bell:
That's fair.
Courtney Chassis:
... I don't respect or agree with for the important things. I'm not talking about the man bun. That was-
Denalee Bell:
I know. I'm totally joking.
Courtney Chassis:
And that was ... bless you. [inaudible 00:51:49]
Denalee Bell:
Excuse me. I'm allergic to our podcast guest that lives on my lap.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm allergic to politics-
Denalee Bell:
That's funny.
Courtney Chassis:
... on the podcast. I think it is important in any relationship to not agree on every opinion, especially when it comes to political things.
Denalee Bell:
But there's some core tenants, right?
Courtney Chassis:
But there are important things.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
And in our current climate, in our world, it's like, "I don't need you to vote for the same person, but it would certainly help. I don't need you to vote for the same person, but if that's going to have a reflection on our relationship and our [inaudible 00:52:27] future-"
Denalee Bell:
But if you're just going to cancel me out. Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... yeah, I can't have you doing that.
Denalee Bell:
That's funny. Since you are an old woman of 31 now-
Courtney Chassis:
Cut.
Denalee Bell:
... what has changed in your expectations from your 20s to now of a date of a man? And having been married before, I mean, you have different expectations.
Courtney Chassis:
Now that I'm old, you don't think 10 years makes a difference until it does.
Denalee Bell:
It does.
Courtney Chassis:
And-
Denalee Bell:
Shoot, two years made a difference in me.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm not the same person I was last year.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, me neither.
Courtney Chassis:
Which has something to do with Bible school and other things. But I wasn't the same person I was yesterday. So, looking back in my 20s, wow, dating is just so weird these days. It is a crazy enough world, but the dating scene in itself is crazy. It's uncomfortable.
Denalee Bell:
I think it always was, wasn't it? Oh, maybe not in your 20s.
Courtney Chassis:
Maybe my confidence levels have changed. Maybe my self-awareness has changed, but I think half of it is the people. I think it's the politics, the everything.
Denalee Bell:
Yes, I guess so. The uncertainty of the world, the politics, all that stuff, everyone feels it.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
But just, I guess, related to age, I think I'm becoming more self-aware, self observant, self-reflective. I am holding myself more responsible and accountable for decisions. When I was 25, let's just use that as a basis, I was a little reckless in the sense of I didn't think about consequences. I would get into these flings, I would date around, and, not to be confused with sleeping around, but I would keep my options open. And I just wouldn't think of what I wanted long-term or what that meant for me in the long run.
Denalee Bell:
Does anyone know at 25?
Courtney Chassis:
Was I thinking about marriage? I should have been-
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
... because I had been married at 21.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
And so, maybe I should have taken that a little more seriously.
Denalee Bell:
Why do you think you should have?
Courtney Chassis:
Because I'm 31-
Denalee Bell:
Is there a rule somewhere
Courtney Chassis:
... and still not married.
Denalee Bell:
Is that-
Courtney Chassis:
Still not-
Denalee Bell:
Is that an old age to not be married?
Courtney Chassis:
I think I'm outdated. I think I'm so traditional to the point where I don't think I'm running out of time, even though that's my biggest fear. I think I am where I need to be in life, because that's where God has me in this season, in His plan.
Denalee Bell:
It's hard to be patient when-
Courtney Chassis:
But I know what I want.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
And it's not even that I'm impatient or that I'm willing to settle. Clearly, I'm not willing to settle, recently out of a relationship and overly selective. But it's hard to sit right here knowing exactly what I want, knowing who I am, knowing my identity in Christ and what that looks like and what that means for my life or my future, and not be a little, I wouldn't even say anxiety. I'm not anxious, but I'm eager.
Denalee Bell:
You're ready.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm ready.
Denalee Bell:
You're ready for it to start.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm ready, and I haven't found them.
Denalee Bell:
I like that.
Courtney Chassis:
And I don't know when that's going to be. It doesn't matter. That's His perfect timing.
Denalee Bell:
But it does.
Courtney Chassis:
But I want what I want, and I'm ready for that when that person comes along. And I'm maturing by the day, I'm growing by the day, that's never going to change. I could never get married, and I will be perfectly happy with my life because I know who I am. But I still keep my flesh. I still have things that I want.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
And I want to be a mom. I want to be a wife. I want to be a spiritual wife. I want to be a spiritual mom. I want to bring what I've learned in my relationship with God and what I'm gaining of that every day into, not just the world, but into a family. And I want to make a beautiful home.
Denalee Bell:
That is beautiful. That's a beautiful sentiment. I wish that I would've been as mature and as far along as you are at your age when I was having my kids because I just wasn't there yet. And I think that's beautiful that you are there solidly before you have a family, because that makes the difference.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, maybe I'm there because I've had so much life experience.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. I mean, awesome.
Courtney Chassis:
I've had to ripen. It's been painful. It sucked at the time.
Denalee Bell:
Well, I mean-
Courtney Chassis:
Look at me now. I mean, it's a result.
Denalee Bell:
You're delightful.
Courtney Chassis:
Stop. Keep it coming.
Denalee Bell:
No, no, no. Stop. Don't stop. Don't stop.
Courtney Chassis:
So, it's been a process.
Denalee Bell:
So, where do you meet these boys you date?
Courtney Chassis:
Gosh.
Denalee Bell:
Where does a millennial meet?
Courtney Chassis:
You want to talk about the dating climate?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
All right-
Denalee Bell:
So, yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... let's dig deep into the details.
Denalee Bell:
We met at the lake at the little res.
Courtney Chassis:
You and him?
Denalee Bell:
No, I meant when I was dating. When you're younger, you just meet up at the lake-
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
... and have beers around the campfire.
Courtney Chassis:
The ice cream truck.
Denalee Bell:
No, we didn't really date like that. I grew up in a small town.
Courtney Chassis:
You didn't meet on a dating app, though, I bet.
Denalee Bell:
No, we-
Courtney Chassis:
Let me guess.
Denalee Bell:
We didn't have the internet, honey.
Courtney Chassis:
How old is she? My math isn't mathing. That doesn't make sense. Make it make sense. As much as I would like to say, a zany girl, as any, anyone, I'm sure. Oh, we met in aisle nine. I dropped something. Oops.
Denalee Bell:
At the supermarket?
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
That sounds like a-
Courtney Chassis:
We locked eyes over the avocados.
Denalee Bell:
That sounds like a rom-com.
Courtney Chassis:
But it's perfect, right? Doesn't everyone-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, it sounds like TV.
Courtney Chassis:
... want that?
Denalee Bell:
Does that ever happen? Perfect? Have you ever heard of that happening?
Courtney Chassis:
No, I don't want perfect.
Denalee Bell:
That sounds like TV.
Courtney Chassis:
I go grocery shopping quite frequently.
Denalee Bell:
You should go to Home Depot.
Courtney Chassis:
Maybe for the hopes.
Denalee Bell:
Go to the Home Depot.
Courtney Chassis:
Do you ever hear the memes?
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
You never see the memes?
Denalee Bell:
We might have different feeds.
Courtney Chassis:
Let's just say, I go to the hardware store quite often-
Denalee Bell:
That is hilarious. That is hilarious.
Courtney Chassis:
It hasn't happened yet. I still have hope, but, let's be honest, where were the past three men that I've met? Past three dates? They've probably generated all from Bumble.
Denalee Bell:
Bumble. So, you talk about Bumble like it's a little embarrassing to you. I mean, I would assume that's where you kids are meeting, because I don't know how else you would meet, especially if you're not hanging out in clubs. I know where you live. It's not like a huge club scene. Or is there? I don't know.
Courtney Chassis:
I mean, I don't go downtown Boise too often.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm sure they're out there. I'm sure it's an option. I'm not part of it, and I don't never go to the bar. I do. I have been on dates.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Here's the thing, and my mom will always ask me this when I'm single. When she knows I'm not in a relationship, she goes, "Where are you meeting these guys? Have you met the one at church yet?" And she always starts at church.
Denalee Bell:
Oh, my gosh, I always want my boys to meet a girl at church.
Courtney Chassis:
It sounds like [inaudible 01:00:21]-
Denalee Bell:
That is fantastic. It's such a mom's dream.
Courtney Chassis:
In theory, it sounds perfect.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
"Oh, I got my church boy. I found him on Sunday."
Denalee Bell:
I found my spiritual leader.
Courtney Chassis:
But did I find him at church? Or did I find him at the bar while watching football afterwards? It's just the reality of it. I've looked at church, I've found them a church, and I'm not ruling church out. I'm not saying maybe it's [inaudible 01:00:43]-
Denalee Bell:
It just hasn't happened.
Courtney Chassis:
It just hasn't happened.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
I've met some of the most, if we want to dig deep dig-
Denalee Bell:
Dig. I'm digging.
Courtney Chassis:
... I've met some of the most worldly, superficial people at church. And I'm not speaking to their faith, but I've also met some of the most Christ-centered people at the bar top.
Denalee Bell:
It's interesting, isn't it?
Courtney Chassis:
Go figure. And I'm not saying that's where I-
Denalee Bell:
But I guess church-
Courtney Chassis:
... specifically looked.
Denalee Bell:
... attracts all of us, right? We're all on our journey.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm not saying I go to the bar to look-
Denalee Bell:
No.
Courtney Chassis:
... but where else if you're not meeting-
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
... in those extremes and you're not meeting at the grocery store or Lowe's.
Denalee Bell:
The hardware store.
Courtney Chassis:
Where do you look?
Denalee Bell:
I guess Bumble, right?
Courtney Chassis:
From your couch? Do you hop on? Is it convenience? Is it?
Denalee Bell:
I guess Bumble it has to be, huh?
Courtney Chassis:
In my experience-
Denalee Bell:
I don't understand. Is there-
Courtney Chassis:
... maybe I don't put myself out there enough.
Denalee Bell:
So, on the Bumble thing, you seem to be embarrassed about it, like it's a bad thing. I think it's a very normal thing, isn't it?
Courtney Chassis:
I think, in this day and age, it's a normal thing.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. But you don't like it for some reason.
Courtney Chassis:
Maybe because I'm a millennial, I get in my head too much.
Denalee Bell:
Oh, okay.
Courtney Chassis:
I think about the association of what it represents, what it looks like-
Denalee Bell:
What does it represent?
Courtney Chassis:
... the stigma. I think it's just a-
Denalee Bell:
I'm old. To me, it just seems like how else are you going to meet? What a great invention.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, and see, that's the thing right there.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
It seems like this modern dating, and I don't want to be sucked into the modern dating. I guess, for me, maybe because of my faith, maybe because of my relationship with God, I expect it to happen. And then, when it hasn't happened, and I get impatient, for lack of better words, I take matters into my own hands. I'm not above admitting that.
Denalee Bell:
I think we are supposed to put our toe in the water. Even God sends you in a direction. "God send me in the right direction." I mean, why wouldn't God use a dating app?
Courtney Chassis:
And one, the argument can go both ways. I know a lot of people, I've heard this out there on Instagram or different social media platforms, where it's like, "Let Jesus take the wheel, and He'll guide you wherever you need." But why couldn't he use dating apps?
Denalee Bell:
I don't know. I think he can lead you anywhere to find somebody.
Courtney Chassis:
God can do anything. God can make-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Yeah. And He can redeem anything. He's really big. Yeah, I don't think stepping your toe on the water is not being led by God. I think going in that direction and going, "Okay, is this?" And then saying, "Okay, no. Pull back." And I think you do that well. I think you step in the water when you're, just from what I understand, and when it's not working out for God's plan and your plan, you pull out.
Courtney Chassis:
I try to be in tune.
Denalee Bell:
I think, yeah, I mean sometimes it takes a while, but I think that's hard when you've developed feelings in a relationship
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. And that's only natural.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
I think maybe I do speak on a lot of this based on my own experience, and not to say they've all been negative. But from what I've seen on dating apps where I've gotten, there have been relationships that have generated straight from Bumble. And I always joke when we get into those relationships. My parents will ask, "How did you meet?" And my natural instinct is, "Oh, I'm going to make up a story. We met at Starbucks." And then, I catch myself and-
Denalee Bell:
And his coffee just gently spilled on me.
Courtney Chassis:
... unbelievable as it may be, why lie about that?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
Why even feel the need to make up a story? That's not the truth. Because it's a dating app. It is the way the world works. Maybe it's because I haven't had a relationship that's been successful, from one. Maybe that's it for me. It's personal, and I don't know. I think there are people out there who would agree with me. I wouldn't even call it embarrassed. I wouldn't call it prideful.
Denalee Bell:
It just seemed hesitant.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, I think the hesitancy comes from, I wish it happened at fill in the blank. Costco. I'm a big Costco enthusiast. I wish it would've happened up on a hike or on the mountain. I go hiking a lot. So, maybe we could have crossed paths organically somewhere like that. But it didn't, and that's okay.
Denalee Bell:
It is.
Courtney Chassis:
And I'm coming to terms of acceptance with that.
Denalee Bell:
I think in our current world, we have been, especially since COVID, we have been so disconnected, right? It taught us to be disconnected. We have disconnected from community, from getting together. I don't know if this has happened for kids your age, but my age, some of my friends I haven't seen for months still.
Courtney Chassis:
It's been years for me.
Denalee Bell:
We used to see each other at least once a week, sometimes once a month. It depends on the friendship or the space and how busy they are or I am. I have friends now that I haven't seen for months, and that's now the normal and we're okay with it. I'm not okay with it.
Courtney Chassis:
Isn't that adulthood, though? We're all busy?
Denalee Bell:
Well, no.
Courtney Chassis:
We're living our lives?
Denalee Bell:
I mean it wasn't two years ago, and I was 49. We made that effort to be together because the community of the girls was important, right? I think we are so disconnected and people are online so much and that community, I think it would be impossible to have one of those chance meetings for especially a kid your guys' age. I look at my kids who are your age. My oldest son is your age exactly. And then my youngest is 24. And they spend a lot of times on their phones. A lot of time. I mean, they're not really big social media guys, but I can't imagine.
Courtney Chassis:
And are they disconnected? Or they're plugged in? I know-
Denalee Bell:
They were more connected with humans before COVID, too. Both of them. So, it's an interesting thing that happened.
Courtney Chassis:
I think phones or the digital space-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
And it brings it into dating apps-
Denalee Bell:
Social media.
Courtney Chassis:
It's not hindering. I mean, there are parts of it where it is helping society. We are advancing as a world, and that's great. There's a lot of good that comes of it. But, equally so, there's a lot of not so good.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
This is talked about everywhere and every day, but people are becoming disconnected. People are relying on-
Denalee Bell:
They're lonely.
Courtney Chassis:
... that social platform-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... and they're losing their social skills-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... because they're hiding behind a phone screen or a laptop. And, again, there's so much good that's come of it, and I know that's where our world is headed. But when it comes to relationships, when it comes to having that connection, that intimacy, friendships or intimate relationships alike, what does that look like?
Denalee Bell:
So, I don't want to be rude about your generation because, I mean, it's just something-
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, I will be.
Denalee Bell:
... I find unique is, and I don't find this about you, to be honest. But they're easily offended by everything.
Courtney Chassis:
Sensitivity.
Denalee Bell:
And so, it's almost like you couldn't be in groups of people because somebody's going to be offended. Because we don't all think alike.
Courtney Chassis:
Why do you think it's so hard to have friends these days?
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
And more than one friend at a time-
Denalee Bell:
That's interesting.
Courtney Chassis:
... so to speak. Sensitivity is a [inaudible 01:08:23]. I laugh because I don't get offended.
Denalee Bell:
You really don't.
Courtney Chassis:
I am a sarcastic person and humor is just, I guess that's a red flag, if you don't have humor or a sense of humor.
Denalee Bell:
It is. Yeah, it's definitely a must have for me.
Courtney Chassis:
Give me joy. Give me laughter.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
That's a deal breaker right there. I guess being overly sensitive would be a deal breaker.
Denalee Bell:
Easily offended.
Courtney Chassis:
It's the-
Denalee Bell:
Quick to anger.
Courtney Chassis:
Quick to anger. Had that before. I've experienced that, and that's been tough. I was in a relationship before and someone, actually, an outside influence, came to me. Someone noticed that he was quick to anger, and-
Denalee Bell:
Before you did?
Courtney Chassis:
... made a note of that. Yeah. And I never realized it until that comment was made, and it was like, "Oh." It was one little thing-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... and just switched my whole perception, not of that person. I still loved him, still cared for him, but it was like, "Oh, I never saw that." Was it the alcohol? Maybe. But still a problem.
Denalee Bell:
Did you notice it after they said it?
Courtney Chassis:
It was night and day.
Denalee Bell:
You picked up on it a little bit better.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Which we can excuse things sometimes because somebody's agitated or high stressed. There's some things where, even this morning, my husband irritated me, and I guess I was a little angry at him. But, I mean, it's not my normal state of being to be quick to anger.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, I think we justify a lot of things.
Denalee Bell:
Oh, ouch. Yeah.
It wasn't that I didn't see it.
Ouch. Yeah. Just joking. It just did.
Courtney Chassis:
It hits home, doesn't it? Yeah. It's not that we don't see it, and it's not that I am blind to it, but I choose to turn my head. I choose to-
Denalee Bell:
Oh, wow.
Courtney Chassis:
... disregard love.
Denalee Bell:
Why?
Courtney Chassis:
You care for that person.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
They might be right for you-
Denalee Bell:
So, you were willing to overlook that?
Courtney Chassis:
... in all the different ways. Apparently.
Denalee Bell:
Would you be now? In the future?
Courtney Chassis:
I would like to say no because-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... I think I've learned, I think I can take that experience and say, "Well, I've been there, I've done that, I've seen that, I've grown from that. But you don't know until you're in that situation again. Which is interesting.
Denalee Bell:
You don't. That's one thing that I don't think I could be with somebody who, especially as a woman, and this is my motherly advice to you, unsolicited. So, I'm crossing boundaries.
Courtney Chassis:
It's funny. Don't we have a podcast about that?
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Because you are a young, petite woman. Right? I mean-
Courtney Chassis:
I'm a small girl.
Denalee Bell:
It can be dangerous.
Courtney Chassis:
Physically.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Sure.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Sure.
Denalee Bell:
[inaudible 01:11:04].
Courtney Chassis:
Emotionally, it can be dangerous.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
But interesting tidbit, which has nothing to do with this podcast, but our Toxic Femininity podcast. Please watch it, like, and subscribe. It helps us out.
Courtney Chassis:
Shout out. Shameless plug.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly, is women are way more likely to psychologically, verbally or emotionally abuse their partner than a man is. It's interesting.
Courtney Chassis:
Fun fact. Statistically speaking, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, it Is. It's just an interesting thing.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, and I think we get away with it a little bit.
Denalee Bell:
That's what we said. And why is it that we get away with it? We'll talk about that on the podcast.
Courtney Chassis:
So, catch our next one.
Denalee Bell:
And these men you're dating, how do they feel about marriage in general? Do they lie to you? Do they tell you the truth? I mean, marriages are declining. I'm just wondering how they're feeling.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, I think it depends on the man just like it depends on the woman.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. You're not seeing a broad general?
Courtney Chassis:
It's hard. I guess the men that I'm going for, or, I don't want to say pursuing, because the men are-
Denalee Bell:
The men that you would consider?
Courtney Chassis:
... supposed to pursue me. But, yeah, the men that I'm-
Denalee Bell:
Oh wait, honey, it doesn't work that way. We choose the man. Women always choose the man.
Courtney Chassis:
We choose, but then we choose-
Denalee Bell:
Then, we want to be hunted.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, we want to be chased.
Denalee Bell:
We choose for them to hunt us.
Courtney Chassis:
I choose you, now you chase after me. It's in their nature.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Yeah. Okay. I just want to make sure you understood.
Courtney Chassis:
Again, I want a man's man.
Denalee Bell:
Yep.
Courtney Chassis:
A masculine man.
Denalee Bell:
You want a man's man with chemistry, compatibility, faith-oriented.
Courtney Chassis:
I think honestly, going back to one of your questions, I think men want to chase us or to-
Denalee Bell:
Oh, they do.
Courtney Chassis:
Pursue us.
Denalee Bell:
We just talked about this. My husband just said it.
Courtney Chassis:
Men don't want feminists. Sorry, I said it. They don't want-
Denalee Bell:
Well, feminists don't want them.
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
So, it's fair. It works out.
Courtney Chassis:
That's fair. Easy filter.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
That's who I'm after. So, those men, do they want marriage? I think absolutely. If they have the same values, if they have a relationship with God, for one. But if they have the same views and vision for a family, why wouldn't they want the same thing? Why wouldn't they want to talk about it on the first date?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
And, yeah, I'm straightforward enough to bring it up on the first date. I guess it's intentionality. If I'm not intentional with my dating, I am absolutely wasting my time.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Courtney Chassis:
If I-
Denalee Bell:
Have you ever stayed with somebody too long?
Courtney Chassis:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Courtney Chassis:
And I'm quick to answer that because it's easy to admit. I think we all have. Hindsight's a powerful thing. But absolutely. I mean, I've stayed months too long.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. Well, that's not so bad. I know it sounds like a long time when you're young as you're older. Okay, that's fair. You gave it a shot, right?
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah. And I try not to beat myself up over that. So much insight is gained from walking away from that relationship, but it still hurts a little bit.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
And it's not even about, "Oh, I could have been with someone else in that time," but I could have been growing with myself in that time. I could have been using that time, that energy, that effort.
Denalee Bell:
But you did. But you did. But you did.
Courtney Chassis:
I mean, I think I could be with God at that time. I could be-
Denalee Bell:
Yes. I see that one. Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... just in different areas of my life. And I get a little bitter when I think about those things. So, I don't dwell on them or I try not to. But yeah, I've stayed, and I've learned. I've probably learned bigger lessons.
Denalee Bell:
Do you feel like you've learned too much?
Courtney Chassis:
All I'm saying is-
Denalee Bell:
I'm back to the you might be being too picky.
Courtney Chassis:
It was easier dating-
Denalee Bell:
I'm totally joking.
Courtney Chassis:
... at 25-
Denalee Bell:
It was.
Courtney Chassis:
... than I am now.
Denalee Bell:
Well, yeah, because you don't-
Courtney Chassis:
... or than where I am now.
Denalee Bell:
That's the crazy thing about getting older. You know what you know. And it changes how you do things, and it makes you more cautious in all areas, not just dating.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, what do they say? What's the saying? Would you rather be dumb or happy? Or obliviousness is happiness sometimes.
Denalee Bell:
Bliss? So, worst state, best state.
Courtney Chassis:
Oh, gosh.
Denalee Bell:
What was your worst?
Courtney Chassis:
So, I know you want examples. I know you want specifics.
Denalee Bell:
You know I love the stories.
Courtney Chassis:
I would say nothing specific comes to mind besides I've had a lot of awkward dates, and those have been, by far, the worst just because they're so cringe, for lack of better words.
Denalee Bell:
Well, give us just one. Tell us, walk us through it. Give us something. We're old. Or not we. Just me. I get it.
Courtney Chassis:
Speak for yourself.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. I know our demographics are your age and my age, which is so fascinating to me.
Courtney Chassis:
I've just had a lot of, and they haven't been discouraging. I mean, it hasn't been the discouragement or the disappointment that's been so bad about them. It's been the awkwardness. It's been the awkward conversations where you almost think you're on the same page until something gets brought up. Politics, namely. And it's like, "Oh, I guess I just wasted three hours of your time. We should go." And then, it just completely changes direction from there.
Denalee Bell:
Do they feel the same way?
Courtney Chassis:
I think they do, but usually it's me who has to initiate something-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... or else the conversation just keeps going.
Denalee Bell:
Oh., okay.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm not willing to waste eight hours of my time. And I don't want to say that, generally speaking-
Denalee Bell:
But you do have stuff to do for Soapy Box, though.
Courtney Chassis:
Right. I've got work. Sorry. I'm a career woman who's looking to be a stay-at-home mom one day.
Denalee Bell:
Well, I'm looking to just make sure that you're ... just joking.
Courtney Chassis:
That's when I clock in and start working. Scrolling Instagram.
Denalee Bell:
I love that you have traditional values. I think it's great. I didn't. I worked with my kids, and I may have worked at home, but it's not the same. I wasn't available to them emotionally while I was working. There's always this guilt of, "I'm working too much, and I'm not spending time with my kids." And with your kids, you're like, "Oh, my goodness. I should have gotten that done." There's just this constant pull in two areas that shouldn't be because-
Courtney Chassis:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
... the one area that is super important is forming and helping shape these young men's lives so that they can go out and be the spiritual leaders that they can go be that. But I wasn't anywhere even close to understanding that as I raised my kids.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, and I think it's so much emphasis on that.
Denalee Bell:
So, I'm so grateful you have that understanding before you have kids because it'll be life-changing for you and your family.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
It really will be.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, and I think about that a lot. Bringing the marriage piece back up again, it's for men and women or women who resonate with me. I always say, I think I know what I want, and I'm sure it'll still surprise me.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
God's plan will take me or sweep me off my feet, and I'll be like, "Oh, my gosh. I didn't see that coming." Or, "I didn't know I wanted that until I actually have it." But it's not just about being traditional and doing it the right way. Obviously, I do want to do it God's way. I haven't done it in the past. That's why I'm here. Did I think I was going to have a family earlier on in life? Yeah, absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
I think you're just at the perfect age.
Courtney Chassis:
But that's the thing. I think about it, and I'm ready now.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
I'm prepared now, or I'm more prepared.
Denalee Bell:
You are prepared, yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
I don't think we're ever really ready.
Denalee Bell:
No, not completely. But you're so far ahead of the game.
Courtney Chassis:
Thinking about maturity.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
I mean, emotional maturity, physical maturity, spiritual maturity, I am years ahead where I was even last year, and 25, and 21, and I was just a kid. I am still just a kid. And I want the same thing. That's changed. But it's not just about being traditional. It's about I've changed as a person, my relationship with God has changed, and I want to find someone who can change and will spend the rest of their lives evolving with me. I think that's the beauty of a relationship. You're always changing, and if somebody else can change with me with the relationship, because I don't want to be stagnant. I don't want to be complacent for the rest of my life.
Denalee Bell:
No. I like the path you're on. It sounds wise, right? My husband and I have been together 28 years now, and I believe it's because we had chemistry, compatibility. He makes me laugh. Oh, my goodness. He's so funny. He makes me laugh. And he's fun.
Courtney Chassis:
I think laughter is key.
Denalee Bell:
Oh-
Courtney Chassis:
Having fun is a foundation.
Denalee Bell:
... it's everything. I can go with that. If he wasn't hot, I'd be okay with it. But he's hot, too. And then-
Courtney Chassis:
Good looks are a thing.
Denalee Bell:
And he's strong.
Courtney Chassis:
You've got to have physical.
Denalee Bell:
And he's strong mentally. He's strong physically. And he is on his journey with God, too. And he is willing to grow. He's always willing to learn and grow. That is my red flag. If you are not willing to learn and grow in life-
Courtney Chassis:
If you're not curious, if you're not learning?
Denalee Bell:
... it doesn't even matter. It wouldn't work because I always want to learn and grow, and there would be too much resistance.
Courtney Chassis:
You're a seeker.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, he may not go at my speed, but he absorbs anything I learn and gets it faster and is more wise about it. So, it's irritating.
Courtney Chassis:
But you're different.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
You're a team [inaudible 01:20:47]-
Denalee Bell:
I'm a voracious reader. I will read and watch YouTube videos, and I'll sum it up for him and he's got it. It's annoying.
Courtney Chassis:
But you have different strengths-
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
... different weaknesses.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
That's any team, any relationship.
Denalee Bell:
Apparently he can learn in 30 seconds, and it takes me a thousand hours.
Courtney Chassis:
But he who finds a wife finds a good thing.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. So, we're a team, and it works. But if he wasn't that, or I am at all, it would be really hard. I couldn't do it. And some people are keeping stagnant.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Some people are. And that just wouldn't be for me.
Courtney Chassis:
No, it wouldn't. It's the pace. But it's also-
Denalee Bell:
They're probably happier people.
Courtney Chassis:
And I think about that. They're good where they're at. They're not having to constantly redecorate their house or all this. I need variety. I need change. I'm such a change person. And not to say I can't be committed, commitment is important, but I need change on a daily basis. I need someone who can keep up. I need someone who can make me laugh.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, it's important because life's hard.
Courtney Chassis:
I need someone who loves-
Denalee Bell:
Life's hard. You have to be able to laugh. You have to have someone when you're crying that helps you to laugh once in a while, or we stay in bed and cry.
Courtney Chassis:
These are important things.
Denalee Bell:
They are.
Courtney Chassis:
And I'm not looking for someone who is me or who's exactly like me because-
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
... how annoying would that be?
Denalee Bell:
It would be super annoying. And I meant, in fact, wondering how we're friends. I think we're a lot alike. I think we're a lot alike.
Courtney Chassis:
We might butt heads, and then we avoid it or avoid each other for a couple of nights.
Denalee Bell:
I have not felt that. Or have you?
Courtney Chassis:
No.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. Just curious.
Courtney Chassis:
Not yet.
Denalee Bell:
But you can be honest.
Courtney Chassis:
We've only known each other-
Denalee Bell:
We're still in the honeymoon phase.
Courtney Chassis:
Yeah, it's fun. Let's keep it up.
Denalee Bell:
I have but one last question. Are you hopeful? I know you just recently broke up with a boyfriend and that's hard. You're getting through that. So, it's probably poor timing to ask this, but are you hopeful about dating going forward?
Courtney Chassis:
I have my moments, but it is a big world out there. And I am 31, but I'm only 31.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. You need to remember that. I know I was joking with you earlier about being old. I was joking because I'm 51, and this is obviously a little bit older.
Courtney Chassis:
Age is literally a number, though.
Denalee Bell:
But 31 is so young.
Courtney Chassis:
It's so young.
Denalee Bell:
It is so young. And I just didn't realize it either at 30 because I felt old because I had two kids already, one of who was probably, what, 12 then? So, I mean, I was tired. But I think I'm so happy that this is happening or has not happened yet for you because I cannot wait to see what you build. I cannot wait to see the family that you build and who you build it with because you really do know who you are. And I love that. You know who your identity is in Christ. I love that. It's inspiring to me, and I'm older than you. So, you inspire me. Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
Learn from your elders.
Denalee Bell:
Well, I'm learning from the young kids, and I do appreciate that. Young kids, I guess. Well, you're my kid's age. I can call you that, can't I?
Courtney Chassis:
I'm a kid. I'm your kid. You're my family.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. So, anyway, thank you so much for joining us and sharing and being vulnerable. And this was a lot to share, and I appreciate it because I'm wondering what's going on in the dating world. These kids don't tell me anything.
Courtney Chassis:
Well, it is a crazy world out there. It's even crazier when it comes to dating. And it's tough, especially being a Christian woman, or a Christian, a godly anyone. It's tough to find-
Denalee Bell:
It's not super popular right now.
Courtney Chassis:
... a partner.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Courtney Chassis:
And I am not giving advice to anyone besides myself when I say this. Compliment taken. I don't feel wise or beyond my years most days, but I am secure in who I am in Christ. And that's where my confidence comes from. I don't put my confidence in the world or the surface level things. And I think I have that to attribute, but I'm excited. I'm here for it. I'm as crazy as the dating scene is. Challenge accepted. Let's go.
Denalee Bell:
Fight on. That's awesome.
Courtney Chassis:
But thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Denalee Bell:
Thanks for coming and our conversation.
Thank you for tuning in and listening to us. We really appreciate it. Please like and subscribe. It's the algorithm. I hate begging for it. It's embarrassing. But could you? Thank you.
Courtney Chassis:
And if you do, five star reviews, too.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Courtney Chassis:
Better than one star.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, we like five star reviews. If you made it this long. Hopefully, you enjoyed us.
Courtney Chassis:
Sorry.
Denalee Bell:
Sorry if you didn't. Anyway, please comment, too. Any comments you have about or disagreements with us, we'd love to have you on the podcast. Thanks.