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Hosted by Masi Willis and Shannon Scott, Lead Like You Mean It is a leadership podcast for those who want more than inspiration—they want impact. We’ll help you lead from the inside out, with tools that stick and some truth that stretches you.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:39)
We're back. Hi. Episode two of Lead Like You Mean It. Yes, here we are. two. Yeah. You feeling good so far? You're not regretting ever saying yes to this? Nope, not regretting it. And actually, I'm kind of excited about it. I through the nervous jitters last time. And I'm glad to be here this week. Good. Well, this week, we get the opportunity to hopefully reframe leadership for people as gardening, not grind.
Yes. Would that be fair to say? Very fair and of course, an analogy form. Yes, we want to use the greenhouse analogy. We want to explore how leaders shape culture, which we said last week, how they care for people and how they equip their teams to bloom to stay with our analogy. Yes, we're there. So hopefully this will help us as leaders identify leadership traits. So anybody listening can hopefully be going, ⁓ that sounds familiar. I do that. Or I work for someone who does.
does that, ⁓ leadership habits, but really importantly, understanding how people grow differently. And ⁓ we're going to do that by talking through the five voices as a leadership lens, which we love. So have you ever as a leader thought, OK, can people just grow? Like, why doesn't everybody just get it together and grow? Yeah. Why do I always have to do everything myself? Yeah. And I have a yes.
I have a lot of leaders who actually say that. the interesting thing on the other side of that is people come in wanting to grow. Nobody doesn't want to grow for the most part. So when leaders are like, can't they just grow? There's a common issue that might be there. growth doesn't just happen. Things do not naturally flourish. They naturally decay. Exactly. We are all
dying, not to be downer on the opening of the podcast, but in order to grow, things have to be cultivated. And so we're planted, we're nurtured, we're cultivated, but leadership is greenhouse work in that. So today we're digging into culture and leadership and gardening and people and plants, because you cannot grow what you don't understand. ⁓
So let's talk about self-awareness and intention in our leadership, because the leader is the gardener in this analogy. ⁓ So we're not
forcing growth in our people. Instead, we're creating the space for it. ⁓ Healthy leaders equal healthy people and healthy plants. Sick leaders, mean wilted leaves and plants that don't thrive and flourish. ⁓
So when we think about gardening before we get into the greenhouse, when I think about my plants at home, there are some that need water twice a week. There are others that do not need to be overwatered. In fact, it's a big warning, don't overwater. So truth time, have you ever as a leader overwatered your people? ⁓ yes.
The culture of over over watering is actually natural in my voice order. If we're going to talk about five voices, I call it protecting. and those who might leave them out there with not enough water, let them drop in the sun would be a little more blistery and dominating. And so we're really looking at how do we have a greenhouse, a culture that's liberating both
empowering, giving that encourage and empowering people and opportunity. Looking at the challenges that we could give them opportunities of growth. So it's the combination of both of those when you really look at thriving cultures are made up of thriving people. Yeah. So unpack the greenhouse because the greenhouse is your culture. So what does it look like to build the right environment? Sure.
Well, let me tell you what it's not. It's not, you know, a pool table in your lunch room. It isn't Friday fun days. isn't, it isn't the things you do. You think about a greenhouse and what is a greenhouse? It's created so that you can control and deliver the best culture atmosphere.
that every plant inside of that greenhouse can thrive. So as a gardener or someone who has a greenhouse, they understand it. They know based on where they live, based on weather, based on their own land, how many people are coming in and out, what does that structure need to look like? That's your organization. So some of you are sitting in an old house that you made up, you know, turned into an office. Some of you are in high rise buildings, but what is the...
What is the structure made of? And then the gardener comes in and actually creates the environment for those plants. So if we thought about what goes into a greenhouse, think about the misters. Think about there's some areas that are more shaded. ⁓ Even if you go to a nursery to buy plants, they'll have greenhouses that might have black tarp over them to mimic what shade looks like. ⁓
We have different nutrients to add to different types of soils. Some need to have more clay, some will have little styrofoam pieces in it. So really thinking about how do we create that thriving culture in organizations, not only in physical environments that would be the structure, but how are you loading your people in, how are you loading them out every day to make sure they are set up to thrive? And we can break all that down. ⁓
I mean, and you know, if I can use this term horticulture, you think about temperature and light and humidity and like you said, weather and sun and shade and all those sorts of things. inside a team culture in your team greenhouse, we're probably talking about things like, are you creating safety for your people or stress for your people? Are you bringing clarity to your team or chaos to your team?
Because if the environment is weak, then at the first sign of discomfort or to use, go back to the plant analogy, you'll get blown over in the first storm that hits. The first problem that needs to be solved in a weak culture, it sets everybody up to fail. Well, and you think about ⁓ the culture of plants ⁓ and that's where we're going with this greenhouse effect is to actually
align plants to people. And I'll give you some cheat sheets around that. But you're right. When it's the Monday Scaries, I don't know, those of us that are in corporate America, it's a conversation. Some people call it the Sunday Scaries because they're scared about Monday. Because if your culture is every Monday, I was actually in a culture where Mondays turned into cryfests. Like people would come into me as a safe place because I'm a connector and obviously now I'm a leadership coach, but I wasn't.
because they would express such angst over those Monday meetings and the things that were coming. And it just created an unhealthy culture at the very beginning of the week. So really looking at those leaks in your culture are crucial to go, how can we fix that? how do we fix that? And we can talk about how you actually know your people to understand how to create the thriving culture you need. And I think it's important to
make the distinction that there are going to be external pressures in any environment. cannot control that. So we can only control the controllables. And internal dysfunction, though, is what will rot a team from the inside out. That we can address. That we can control. External pressures are going to happen, and they actually help us grow.
They refine us. ⁓ And so when you're setting your team up, it's not for no pressure at all. Yes. But it's for ⁓ being without the wrong kinds of pressure. And being able to withstand the pressure when it comes. Yeah. You know, I'll quote Horst Schultze. He used to say this a lot. And when you invest in your stakeholders, they will impact your shareholders. Most people will invest in their customer experience, right? Most brands think, how do I make my customer experience better? The one
top number one thing you could do to make your customer experience better is to make your employee experience better. Because when they're thriving and they feel safe and they feel heard and understood and every voice comes to the table where everyone has a collective input doesn't mean everything goes your way. It just means you're adding value to it. Then when they go out to serve your customer and give them the experience, it's coming from a place of blooming.
It's not coming from a place of ⁓ already a little daisy dumped over and don't have enough water. So therefore anyone going to the floral shop is not going to pick that daisy. Right. Yeah. And it's not that the daisy is not beautiful. It's not being cared for. Exactly. Yeah. So if we can just take a little pause before we go any deeper. If the greenhouse represents culture, then what is just one quick way that comes to mind that a leader can check if theirs is leaking?
So really looking at your culture is asking the question and being ready to hear the answer. Are there people, do they show up at different times, different ways? I once had someone, I asked the question to a coworker that I worked with and said, what more do you want from me and what less would you want from me? And he thought about it for about a day and he came back and said, I want more of who you are on the road and less of who you are at home. Because when you're at home,
Like in the home office. Home office. When you're back in the home office because you travel so much, you have fear of missing out. You get this siloed mentality and you can come off really heavy. But then you get off on the road with the clients and that's where you're thriving because you love people. Well, if my leaders or when my leaders like that are asking questions to us or ⁓ looking at that,
Do you have people who there's a lot of drama? Do you have turnover happening? If people are leaving, if you have a board of directors, they should all be asking for exit interviews. And if you have people leaving, find out why. Now, some people leave for real reasons. They're moving. But if you keep hearing things like, it's just hard to come in here, or I can't get all my work done, there's not enough hours in the day.
Or check your, I can say one thing that leaders can do. Take a look at your cell phone and how many people are you texting after six o'clock at night? How many people are you? I had a leader who texted me one night on a Saturday at 10, 8, 10 PM. And what that told me is you do not value your family because the text wasn't an emergency. And I shouldn't make that as a very, ⁓ accusatory moment, but it does cause me as a ⁓
a vendor, I wasn't even an employee, to go, what's going on in your life that's so imbalanced? So leaders, check your own boundaries. I did work for an organization that said we will use Slack for internal conversation, emails for client conversation only, and text messages for emergencies. And that was their best way to protect us as employees and for them to put
boundaries into place to keep a healthy environment. You know, you mentioned turnover. And turnover is telling us something. Yeah. A lot of times, I think sometimes, or at least I have been in situations where somebody leaves and it's just like, well, good riddance. But we don't take the time to go, but why did they leave? Regardless of how we feel about them or their contribution or their personality even.
Why did they leave? And I had a boss who always said, people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses. Do you agree with that? 100%. They 100 % leave people, bosses, leaders. And when, well, I shouldn't say 100 % because some have to leave to do other things. But when someone exits and you can ask, if you're bold enough, it's courage. It's courage for a leader.
to say, I want you to be candid. I want you to tell me the truth. I can't change what we've done and you've made this decision, but I have to learn what did I miss? That's a bold and humble, very humble approach. And if you continue to hear the same thing, you know, if someone's like, I really want to work remote, but you don't have a remote environment, that's a different ball game. That's meeting up to lifestyles. But if someone says,
I cannot work for so long. I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall. This person always walks into the meeting and dominates everything. It feels like a dictatorship. I never get listened to. I am being led with fear. Well, if you do that, so-and-so might do so-and-so. That's not a leadership liberation, a liberating leader. That's a dominating leader. You're leading out on manipulation and fear.
A leader needs to look for what might be broken. Assume there is something broken and go looking for it. For sure. That's good. And you're right, it takes humility. Well, go back to the plant analogy. Go looking for holes in your leaves. Flip the backside of that leaf and see if there's a worm. We're looking for something that is going to take the crop out. If the gardener or the farmer never looked for what could be, then their crop would be eaten.
So if you're not willing to look for the toxicity or look for the overwork, then are you really a leader worth following? No, you're one they have to follow. Yeah, so good. So if we think about plants as people in this analogy, then we want to understand individuals and give them what they need to thrive at the end of the day. So before we get into specifically the five voices, let's just talk about these one by one.
Every plant, we know this intuitively, every plant blooms differently. And so they have to be given what they need to thrive, which means that if you go and buy a plant, it comes with a plant card. Yeah. So let me pick up there and kind of talk about that because we, I love the analogy world and what we have to look at is that everyone needs something different. And often we think,
We need to give everybody this amount of challenge and opportunity or this amount of empowerment, but we don't. Everything needs a little bit of a different take on it. And if I could tell you that I could give you a cheat sheet, and if I gave you a cheat sheet, I gave you a tool that you would instantly know and be able to learn every person's way of thriving.
Would you be willing to buy it? my goodness. any amount. So we get that in our plants. We go in and we get that little card. we look at the front of the card. But what do we normally do with it when we get home? Throw it out. We throw it out. Now I look at the picture on the front because there's a picture there. There's its name. Its originated. Its origin of its name. And it might say sun or shade. That's about it. Yeah. And based on the color of that, the way it looks,
based on, do we have sun and shade and do I even like the name of the plant? I normally buy it. That's what our profile pictures look like. That's the name on the resume. That's about as far as we get on understanding our people. Yes, but when you flip the card over, most often you're going to see how much sun and shade, is it in the morning or night? Do you need to water it? How much?
how far apart do you need to plant them from each other? When you really think about just those descriptors. And the pruning style. The pruning style, the seasons, is it going to come back? Is it going to sustain through the whole year? There's so much information on that card. Now, I'm not a green thumb. Me either. Don't mistake me for thinking that I love to garden. I don't, and I've got a whole mess in my backyard. But when
Because we're looking at plants and we know that to be true, then we should be able, I can give you the cheat sheet of people. I'll use something happened to me years ago. I came home from work and I love Gerber daisies. They're my favorite flower. And specifically, I love the orange that have the green center. But Gerber stand with one thick stem and they're very rigid.
and normally can hold up the power of that gerber. And when you look at the daisy itself, all those petals are really thick and beautiful and the core of it just shines through. But I could go away to work and come home and that daisy's head would just flip over. I'm like, girl, you getting all dramatic on me. And most gardeners that don't know anything about a gerber might would just cut it off at its stalk, just down at the ground and hope it would grow back.
But if you actually really know a daisy, she just needs a little water. And I could go get my water and I come out and be like, hey girl, don't get so dramatic. Mama's here. I'm getting you some water. Pour some water. And it wouldn't take her long. And she'd come back up and be holding those daisies. And I often looked at my leadership when we talked last episode about leadership, how I felt like I was constantly holding up my whole team. ⁓ And some of my leaders didn't know I just wanted, needed water.
And they would just tell me everything I did wrong and just cut me off at the stalk. So I love the analogy of the greenhouse and flowers and plants. I also love how I have a plant that really just I feel like describes me. And so I really want people to understand that as leaders, you don't have to figure this out by yourself. Yeah. So we can really, the hope would be, our teams and the people that work with and for us through a new lens.
And we have found that Giant's tool of the five voices is so profoundly clarifying on types of people. And so we've mapped each of them to a flower just to keep the analogy going and help people kind of see and relate to this. So I'm gonna give you a flower and a name, a voice.
And if you will just describe that for us and why that is that ⁓ analogy. Yep. Let me write quick for those that don't know a little bit about Five Voices. Five Voices for Teams, we've got a Five Voices app. I'm powered by them. I use their content. It was rooted in Myers-Briggs. The co-owners, co-founders actually are just years of institutional knowledge around Myers-Briggs.
but it was hard to speak that language. I'm an ENFP. You're an ISFJ. We know that, but most of the common person doesn't. Or I'm a two wing of three, or I'm a blue, a little bit with a green. Or I'm woo and maximizer and relator. I'm whatever disc, I'm a D, or whatever genius I might be. So what the co-founders did was they took
the Myers-Briggs and kind of looked at from the perspective of how can we make it a common language. Also, a lot of assessments tell you kind of this is who you are. And with Five Voices, you are all five voices. You are all of them. You are competent in some of them and incompetent in others. You're unconscious in some of them and conscious in some of them.
But the great thing is everyone's all five. And so it really addresses more of how you're going to behave and what you're gonna, who you're gonna naturally behave as. It's not who you are. It's how you show up with a leadership language that we can predict that. And just to make this part clear, it isn't that five voices is in.
opposition or competition with those all those other great assessments you named. In fact, yes, you know, let's just use Enneagram for the sake of the illustration. But knowing my Enneagram and knowing my voice has made both of them come alive for me in ways that really lead to, like you said, transformation, not just a bunch of information. And also as a good point for those of you listening, we actually do a lot of co
existing with other assessments. ⁓ I have multiple assessments. There's somebody on our team that has CliftonStrengths. I've got another friend who's also Enneagram certified as well as Five Voices. So we layer all the time because the assessment or that tool shouldn't break us from being able to be great leaders. They should be able to coexist together. And a matter of fact, we're looking at joining forces with other organizations.
that have assessments to say, let's break down the barriers where organizations might say, well, I'm a five voices organization or I'm a whatever. No, we want you to be a leadership organization. We want you to look at great leaders. So yeah, that helps people for those that don't know much about it.
Now we are not going to do a deep dive on each of the voices, but I will say this is a great opportunity if somebody's like, I would like to know more of that. That's when take the next step, reach out to Macy for a conversation because there is so much that we cannot unpack with all of these, but we are going to do a high level fly by. So let's start with the nurturer. Yes. And the nurturer, the flower is the peony, which I love because I'm a nurturer. So tell us about the nurturer.
Yeah, so the nurturer is one of the quietest voices. They are not quiet because they don't speak. They often wait for everyone else to speak. They represent 43 % of the population. They are very people forward and they are champions of harmony. They are really making, they've got this spidey sense. Like they are in the middle of a spiderweb and they can sense everybody's movement and how to create the most
harmony in the team. They're the glue that helps bring them together. That's good. Next is the creative, which is represented by the orchid. Yes, our great creatives. It's interesting because when you look at the creative, they themselves are a part of five voices. It's not an even number. And the reason was that Jeremy and Steve looked at that innovative voice that really wasn't represented necessarily in
you know, the people side of it are only represented in the strategy future side. But that, that kind of forewarning, they sense changes coming. you know, somebody at Blockbuster probably wasn't a creative sitting there. They, they sense changes coming. So creatives represent 9 % of the population. They're not quite the rarest, but they're pretty rare. ⁓ They are a future tense voice where the nurture is a
present tense voice and they really are the champion of innovation. It's good. So back to another present tense voice, which is the guardian represented by a marigold. Yes, the sweet marigold. ⁓ Guardians represent 30 % of the population. They are the champion of due diligence and process. They guard that bottom line and they
really are, I call them the money makers. We all have kind of trigger sides of ourselves and things that others might not really deal with. The guardian is actually my last voice. And I've learned that I'm just not good at that. And I actually am a terrible at it. And so I have learned to actually partner more with guardians and really seek out help from the guardian to get there. But sure, look at that, the nurture.
and the guardian, 43 % and 30 % present voices. And we can talk about present and future a little bit later. Next, the connector, the Gerber Daisy. Yes. So connectors, myself, we're the champion of networks and people. We represent 11 % of the population and they are all about connecting people and resources. If you've got a need,
I've got the answer. We've got the person that we can connect with. We are great communicators. Mostly we're storytellers. And so we are future thinkers. We're thinking about the future through the lens of what people and what resources do we need to bring this new idea or this strategy to play. then lastly, but not leastly, our pioneers represented by the Rose. Yes. They're the steady
beautiful flower with thorns at times. So the pioneer is the rarest. They are 7 % of the population. ⁓ They are the champion of strategy, that military ⁓ process to get things done. They are winners, not like give me the trophy, but if there is a strategy, they will get it done. They will get to the end of it. And may I just say,
what you don't want to do with voices, especially in the American culture, is assume that you know what those words mean. Because we use this language, leadership language, in over 120 countries around the world. so pioneer to an American is very, ⁓ Western world is very different than Europe or the Eastern world. Creative, you might say, I'm not an artist. That's creative first voice.
is not someone who necessarily has the medium of art. They have the creative ability to solve or see future. Yeah, that's good. Don't assume you know what a word means. The pioneer is also a future voice. So when you put the pioneer, the creative and the connector together and you look at it, that's 17%. I mean, 27%. And so when you look at 27 % being future voice people, you're not the majority.
However, in our Western world, we tend to hire into leadership positions, about 50 % of the time, future voices. And we miss out often on how the present voice has to shape the future dream. So let's try to make it really understandable in a leadership context. So what's an example of something that might happen in any corporation or ministry in America?
between future and present thinkers? Sure. Actually, I'll use an example. Some of my clients I'm working with. And when you look at expansion, you you think about ⁓ organizations that have different locations can expand into different cities. And this particular ⁓ brand is really growing. And so their leader is a future thinker and he knows they're expanding out, going to different cities. And, you know, when he thinks about that,
He doesn't really think about how do we get there. He's like, we're going there. That's how we're getting there. But he happened to be speaking to a present voice person who would eventually, quite possibly, have to go there. So that present voice is in today, or maybe in a week. But when that person shows up saying, hey, I think we're going to expand here and do this, and I can't wait till it grows and we get to do all these.
have all these opportunities of growth, that present voice is going to say, have we looked at the market? How many other competitors are there? What's the cost of living? My wife and I just, we had a baby and now we're going to have to move. They're very present thinking and present thinkers will say, I might come over there on the other side of this cliff, but you're have to build a bridge. Where most of the future thinkers would go, I'm just going to jump.
Yeah, I'm assuming I'll make it. And I hope I make it. And so valuing, that's why I like to say you need to value, appreciate and listen to every voice at the table because that had they sat down together and had a conversation, this is what I'm thinking. What do I need to process through? Or if that leader had gone ahead known, they're going to need to know what's the potential gross profit that they could make over there. They've got to
think about how the housing would be, what would this do to their family? How would this impact their children's schools? Any of that. That's a leader showing up knowing they're a dreamer or future thinker and knowing to value my present thinker, I have to show up with present details. Yeah. Well, and as you think about the five voices, if a pioneer voice is coming in with, here's my big plan, I can't wait to make it happen.
A creative is going to see those early warning signs. A guardian is going to know all the details that have to happen before we can ever get to that amazing thing that you dreamed up. A nurturer is going to inherently feel how the people are going to respond to, you know, and so on and so forth. And the connector is going to say, we have four other customers in that same area. How might they feel about us moving there or what?
resources we need. We don't have the transportation we need to get into that area. So every voice sitting at the table helps bring every dynamic. So leaders have to want that. Yeah. Invite that. And so if you are a leader and you're listening and you're going, okay, how do I identify what's growing in my team? This is a great, great promo for the five voices assessment and having
Macy and a leadership coach lead you through what it looks like to identify the plants in your greenhouse. Well, and in that greenhouse, just as we probably start summarizing is to think about that plant card. And what I would want to say to you is you won't know everything because you won't know what toxicity is going to come into the environment or into your organization. But I want you to know that the plant card themselves, if I can give you
those tools, we could unlock what's the power of that voice. We could unlock the strengths, the weaknesses, what it looks like in moderate stress. How do you optimize your team? How do you collaborate better? There's so much to this more than simply the five voices, but it is what we talked about all the time. It's the transformation. When I give you the tool, I'm going to help you turn it into this transformational language. So good.
So as we're starting to close down this episode, I think that it's important to go back to what we said at the very beginning, which is you can't grow a garden you don't understand. Exactly. You can be the sweetest, most competent, most vision-driven, most successful in terms of metrics leader ever. But if you want to be a phenomenal leader of
people and bring out the best in those you lead, you have to know them. You have to understand them. You can't grow what you don't understand. ⁓ So I think in closing, what would you want to ask or challenge our listeners? Like what kinds of questions do they need to be considering as they think about greenhouse and culture and what kind of gardener they are?
Yeah, I want you to look at it and determine what are you, who are you as the leader? And when you show up, do you know what the rest of your team looks like? If you don't, we need to all get together and we need to look at what that could do to your team. You might.
have been impacted by something in your life that made you become a very different leader. Whether it was trauma, whether it was a past leader, you and I have both talked about the pain we've lived through. I've had to remove lies spoken over me as if they were truths. But that started shaping me into what was not my most natural voice and that's not where I was thriving. And so I would want leaders to look at it and say, I want that cheat sheet.
and I want people to want to be led by me because I'm a leader worth following, not one they have to follow. And that they would talk about the culture being this is like a growing greenhouse. And you and I have seen over and over leaders that probably other people wrote off ⁓ because of their experience under that person's leadership. have...
embraced this Five Voices tool and let it begin to read their mail, basically. And we have watched leaders that other people wrote off transform before our eyes as a result of what it's like to finally know yourself, lead yourself, and then begin knowing others and leading them well. And it's been truly transformational. Well, I'll be vulnerable.
It's transformed my life. And it's kind of, this is the vulnerable part of it is I'm sure there's people that know me listening to this thinking, why would Macy be the person speaking on this? And if, if you haven't been around me in a while or you don't know me, like I'm going through a major growth and change world. I think you as one of my closest friends and others, because when I started,
eating, drinking, and sleeping this. When I actually turned the mirror on myself, when I actually applied all this to myself, I have changed. Now, my hardest place to change is probably within my family, but my teams and my organizations and the community, I believe I feel like a better person, but I know that every day I have growth, every day we have triggers, every day we have tendencies.
and I have to constantly be working on them and using the tools that I use with my clients, I use them on myself. Yeah, absolutely. Like nobody is interested in listening to someone sell something they don't use. And yet we both are undergoing, still have and are still undergoing...
the most transformational seasons of our lives to be certain and in a good way. Yeah. And who said fifties weren't the best years ever? mean, come They're the best, right? Come on. Well, I hope that this greenhouse analogy has been helpful for you guys. Thinking about the flowers and thinking about the different ways that they need to be cared for is such a good reminder that every single person we're looking at in our day-to-day life has to be
led and engaged with differently, different levels of water, different levels of sunlight, different kinds of pruning and feedback. It impacts every single thing about leadership and that's really great. And next week, we're gonna be talking specifically about the Mile Framework. And this is your leadership framework. This is what everything runs through. And I have to say, this has some of the most.
practical application of anything we'll talk about. And so I'm really excited for us to get to that on the third episode of Lead Like You Mean It. Yes. Well, I'm excited. Thanks for today. I do want to leave everyone with just a quick question. So if you really think about the things I've said today, my challenge to you would be to ask, what do you need to do to really lead like you mean it?