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Future of XYZ is a bi-weekly interview series that explores big questions about where we are as a world and where we’re going. Through candid conversations with international experts, visionary leaders and courageous changemakers- we provoke new thinking about what's coming down the pipeline on matters related to art & design, science & innovation, culture & creativity.
Future of XYZ is presented by iF Design, a respected member of the international design community and host of the prestigious iF DESIGN AWARD since 1953. The show is also a proud member of the SURROUND Podcast Network. For more information, visit ifdesign.com/XYZ.
00:00:04:00 - 00:00:31:07
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Future of XYZ. It's always exciting for me to introduce our guests, but this one is really thrilling. Chris Down is the, executive VP and chief design officer at Mattel. the world's largest toy manufacturer. And we're going to be talking about the future of play. Chris, thank you so much for joining us today on future of X, Y, Z.
00:00:31:09 - 00:00:51:08
Speaker 2
Thank you. Lisa, I, I'm particularly excited to be a part of this because I love play. Of course, it's inherent in what I do and what we do here at Mattel, but, but I love design. I mean, you know, me, you know that I was born and raised a designer to designing, a designing family and a designer household.
00:00:51:08 - 00:01:12:22
Speaker 2
So it's kind of, it's kind of in me. So I love I love that intersection. By the way, one quick note for your listeners. We are the largest multi category toy company. But I will say Lego edges is out as far as being the largest toy company. Oh single category I know. But I got to say it, I got to say it.
00:01:12:22 - 00:01:45:24
Speaker 1
No, it's good and it's wild because it will come up because it is the multi categories of, you know of Mattel or what make it in some ways. So ultimately fascinating. I mean obviously you lead design and innovation. for the global toy maker which has seven categories, as you just mentioned at scale, you operate in 35 countries, sell in over 150 countries, publicly traded, 30,000 plus employees worldwide, owned vertically integrated manufacturing in some cases, I think 5.5 billion of net sales last year.
00:01:46:01 - 00:02:07:20
Speaker 1
and a study that we're the shape of play, which we're going to be able to talk about as well. but I'm fascinated because you just mentioned your own background in design coming from a design family, but you also studied industrial design, undergrad at University of Notre Dame. You got an executive MBA from UCLA's management school, which is, Anderson.
00:02:07:22 - 00:02:30:15
Speaker 1
but you're LA based now, I guess, headquarters. It's El Segundo, near where I grew up. and play just feels kind of innate to, I think, Mattel to toys. But it goes beyond that. So I think for the sake of our conversation, Chris, let's let's start as we always do in future of X, Y, Z and define play in the context of today's conversation and your expertise.
00:02:30:17 - 00:02:55:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. Look, I mean, it could I could probably write a dissertation. I think dissertations have been written on kind of what play is, and, and the value that it provides to society and people and to kids. I think of it kind of simply, in that it's, it's really it is an activity. It's any activity that is there to deliver joy or provides joy.
00:02:55:13 - 00:03:17:00
Speaker 2
So there's there's a motivation behind it, but then that opens it wide up. And I think in the course of our conversation, we're probably going to talk about some of the dimensions of play. We think about those conventional ones, whether they're happening on the playground or whether they're happening in a sport. Those are more straightforward in that they're conventional.
00:03:17:00 - 00:03:39:00
Speaker 2
Because oftentimes, certainly in a sport, there's a there's there's a beginning, there's an experience. And, and oftentimes there's an end or a goal that's driving people and motivating them to do something. But, all in the spirit of gaining some sort of benefit. And, and joy is the, the nucleus or the common denominator in most of those things.
00:03:39:00 - 00:04:04:24
Speaker 2
What we found out, kind of in our observations. And as we look at the constellation of observations that are out there from others, there are true benefits to play as well. So we think of it as frivolous, I think off the cuff, but actually the value to society, to human development, and to connection is profound.
00:04:05:01 - 00:04:23:12
Speaker 1
it's true because when people will have seen the title of this episode, Future Play, I'm sure it's, you know, it's fun and games, right? That's that's how we think about play. but it's, it goes beyond that. And I think, you know, my next question is, you teed that up beautifully, Chris. I mean, you spent three decades in play.
00:04:23:12 - 00:04:52:22
Speaker 1
Let's just call it across multiple industries. But you you designed board games for Parker Brothers. You produced award winning video games at Hasbro Interactive, another huge toy maker. You co-founded Atari's innovation practice called Atari Labs. And now as the chief design officer at Mattel. everything else aside to the point that you were just trying to make play at its most basic is what and why does it matter in the year 2025?
00:04:52:24 - 00:05:18:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, I think that, play at its most basic. I think it it takes, you know, it takes the interest and the motivation of the person who's engaging in it. So it is, it is. Well, it is purposeful. It is also voluntary. And so I think that there's an aspect of that. And the interesting thing is some people, in, in certain circumstances don't even realize that they're playing.
00:05:18:14 - 00:05:41:00
Speaker 2
And in fact, you know, before before you hit record, Lisa, we're chatting and we're bantering back and forth. That's a form of play. That's a form of play that's actually driving connection. and, and it's establishing kind of, levels of, of trust. it's also helping us to navigate and understand each other as we enter into a more formal dialog.
00:05:41:02 - 00:06:01:06
Speaker 2
after you did hit record and that is that is an aspect that is a dimension and that is a version of play. And, you know, we just and we may talk about it a little bit more. It's really topical because only just a few months ago, we fielded a massive study. It's called Shape of appropriately called Shape of Play.
00:06:01:12 - 00:06:40:08
Speaker 2
It was a over 30,000 respondents, people that we interviewed and talked to around seven different countries, and we learned more about the both the formal and the informal definitions of play. And in some ways, it's it's impossible to define it down to one thing or one elegant line, because it does manifest even in the example that I just had in a lot of different ways that you're like, okay, well, upon reflection, I get how that's play, even though it's not a game of Uno, I get how that's play. Uno is also play, by the way, number one, number one game in the world.
00:06:40:10 - 00:06:44:00
Speaker 1
And also part of Mattel's portfolio.
00:06:44:02 - 00:07:04:09
Speaker 2
but yes, I mean, even even playing around and joking, you know, there are a lot of things I digital digital, of course, is a dominant, platform for play these days. And it's not just in video games, but it's also how people are communicating and playing in social media and, and other forms of engagements through digital devices.
00:07:04:11 - 00:07:24:14
Speaker 2
Oftentimes, social connection has play kind of at the root of what is motivating those interactions, which is, is, is is also interact, which is also interesting. So social engagement is a significant dimension. and, and often a common denominator for play.
00:07:24:16 - 00:07:51:05
Speaker 1
we're going to get into the study, but I have one other question which I think, you know, we've just we just talked about Uno, but Mattel is celebrating its 80th anniversary this year. obviously two years ago, the Barbie movie came out and told a little bit of the Barbie historic story. You have her Hot Wheels and Fisher-Price and American Girl and, you know, obviously Uno and Matchbox and Polly Pocket and a whole bunch of licensed product to boot.
00:07:51:07 - 00:07:59:18
Speaker 1
What does the mission of Mattel overall have to do with play?
00:07:59:20 - 00:08:21:13
Speaker 2
well, I would say the mission has everything to do with play. And, you know, for for your listeners, our mission is to create innovative products, which actually I'll, I'll unpack the whole thing, maybe afterwards. But it's, create innovative products and experiences that inspire, entertain and develop children through play. All of that. And I would say that our mission is even expanded because it's not just children that play.
00:08:21:13 - 00:08:44:09
Speaker 2
It is. It is all, you know, all, all people in all places at all, at all stages of life. but the the mission, when you think of the role that I have here at Mattel, which is creative role, we are the creation engine of the company. We're coming up with what's next? We're working a year to 18 months in advance.
00:08:44:11 - 00:09:12:06
Speaker 2
and so we're we're constantly looking at culture and society and trying to understand what, what are our consumers interested in today, only to give us signals of what they might be interested in tomorrow, in the future. And that is when we think of kind of the, you know, Webster version definition of innovation. And we think of like innovation is new.
00:09:12:08 - 00:09:46:17
Speaker 2
what what we create is not just new to be new, but it's also to scratch the itch or to provoke play experiences that whether it's, open ended play that a child may be experiencing on their bedroom floor or whether it is more directed play that's bringing communities, people together, whether Uno or Scrabble or, or any of our other kind of board games that orchestrate a level of play and we also have products that orchestrate play.
00:09:46:18 - 00:10:19:02
Speaker 2
Hot wheels track set, unboxing it, putting it together, and then seeing whether you can make that that loop or avoid that, that, that dinosaur tongue. Those are aspects of challenge and play that are somewhat directed, that have open ended aspects to it. So when we think about our mission and the idea that innovation is in there, products and experiences is in there, and then there's a value aspect of of inspiration, entertaining and also development.
00:10:19:02 - 00:10:33:23
Speaker 2
And we think of like childhood development ages, the stages. And yeah, so all of that is true because you can't put a product, you know, a product that's designed for an eight year old in front of a kid that's three years old and expect that they're going to have a great experience. So we have to know all of that around child science and development.
00:10:34:00 - 00:11:00:16
Speaker 2
But we're developing, we say, developed children through play. We're developing all ages through play and, and and even if you are, you know, middle aged like me, play is still, like us. You it's probably play is still a huge value proposition as it relates to our, our own, our own development, actually, like just a little bit of an audible.
00:11:00:16 - 00:11:29:15
Speaker 2
It reminds me of there was a, a scientist doctor Stuart Brown, way back. I mean, this is this is, decades ago, and he was the founder of the National Institute for play. And your listeners can go down the rabbit hole and discover all about it. It still exists, today. But what was interesting about about Doctor Brown's work was he,
00:11:29:17 - 00:12:04:22
Speaker 2
And I don't remember all of it, but he had, like, these these, these principles and properties of play, and, and and but and kind of understood and acknowledged and unpacked and gave names to kind of these dimensions of play and learning for kids and for adults. Cool. The thing that sticks out to me, and it's a little it's, it's a little bit wild, is that he also talked about what the consequences were for being play deprived and, like it.
00:12:04:23 - 00:12:17:19
Speaker 2
Some of it is relatively graphic, so I won't get into it, but from a from an emotional development, the social development. that like, bad things could happen.
00:12:17:21 - 00:12:38:09
Speaker 1
It's it's interesting because intuitively, that makes a lot of sense, right? I mean, exactly for the things that we're talking about, like just communication rights, playful communication, you know, enjoyment. Like if you don't have that sense of play, which, you know, like I can imagine and forget the toys and the and the and the interactivity and the entertainment.
00:12:38:09 - 00:12:42:05
Speaker 1
Like I can totally picture like that doesn't bode well for people, for humans.
00:12:43:04 - 00:13:02:02
Speaker 2
It really doesn't. I mean some of the obvious things or, you know, kind of risk of depression and things like that. And but, you know, and mental health issues and all of these other things. And I think there's a social aspect, to it as well, that amplifies it, because lack of play does kind of, lead toward isolationism.
00:13:02:02 - 00:13:17:11
Speaker 2
And, I mean, there are all these other things, but then you think about like the the other end of the spectrum. And Brown did talk about and we talk about, and this is a big part of what came out of, our study and what we have also observed over 80 years of existence, is the, the positive value of play.
00:13:17:11 - 00:13:46:18
Speaker 2
And it isn't about just making the social connections, but it is about, you know, in this day and age, it's it's there is a development and a challenge aspect, brain health and development at a, at a young age and an old age. Is there are true and measured benefits through play. and the, the, the fun aspect, the ability to have something that actually takes you into a different place where you almost lose, kind of lose yourself in those moments or in the moment.
00:13:46:20 - 00:14:10:19
Speaker 2
those are also huge benefits for recharge that are additive. It's it's, you know, what we do. It's not a zero sum game. And we're not like a, you know, a, an electric car battery that the more you do, the battery comes down. In some cases, play is is actually energizing. and in what it what it provides not just in your own personal development, but also how you feel.
00:14:10:21 - 00:14:31:01
Speaker 1
it's totally fascinating. I, we have so much to get through because this turns out, unsurprisingly, as many topics with Future of XYZ, but this one in particular, Chris, in your own deep background with it, that there's a lot more to unpack than we have time for. But I do want to give, a brief moment to the Shape of Play study that you just referred to that, you know, came out in April.
00:14:31:03 - 00:14:49:10
Speaker 1
And last year, you guys surveyed 33,000 people in seven countries in really brief order. And I know that it's not going to there's way more so I get it. But in really brief order, what insights did you guys gain about the following topics? And I have four. The first is something that you mentioned, which is ages and stages.
00:14:49:12 - 00:14:54:06
Speaker 1
What was like your, your, your major takeaway there?
00:14:54:08 - 00:15:20:24
Speaker 2
okay. So one, one piece of context and I, I really appreciate the question. because from an ages and stages point of view, we are experts and we have been since like the dawn of time for this company in understanding child children and early childhood development. So, there's there's not a lot that we that that sounds wrong, but we know a lot about the young like the youngest consumer from kind of we call it birth to bus.
00:15:21:01 - 00:15:43:01
Speaker 2
and our Fisher-Price division has a play lab. They have experts, PhDs on staff that study like they study, and they observe children and they fuel our practice to ensure that from an ages of stages point of view, we are making the right toys that are going to be developmentally on point and are going to deliver the best experiences for children and for the parents of those children, alike.
00:15:43:03 - 00:16:10:17
Speaker 2
That's our Fisher-Price division. And that that kind of bleeds and flows and influences the rest of our toy practices that that start to age up. The biggest observation from an ages and stages point of view. Out of these 33,000 respondents is play is so alive and well, and there's actually a much greater, recognition of it and appreciation of it at an older age than we've ever observed before.
00:16:10:17 - 00:16:49:09
Speaker 2
But this is also the first time that we've done any kind of scaled engagement you mentioned already. Thank you. 33,000 people, seven countries where we went around the world and talk to all demographics, all walks that you can imagine and did not focus on children, in fact, in fact, we we spent we overindex our time looking and learning more broadly on purpose because it's the first time that we've done something like this and the level of fidelity that you can that that you can, have in a conversation or an ethnographic observation, because we also went into homes was significant.
00:16:49:11 - 00:17:09:00
Speaker 2
And what we learned is that I brought up much of it, and I'm talking about it like it's, oh, it's it's totally fluent, like play is for everyone. I think we intuitively knew that what the study told us in fact, 94% of of all of the respondents said, yeah, we believe that play is important not just for kids, but for everyone.
00:17:09:00 - 00:17:40:11
Speaker 2
I mean, we ask them, we talked to them and they told us that. Yeah, they also said, I mean, it it's something like more than 85% like, you know, like between 85 and 90% emotional benefits. The like play truly. These are our respondents telling us reduces loneliness, reduces isolation and and and also have you know, makes makes us feel better and more healthy whether they're trying to, you know, stave off early onset Alzheimer's or whatever.
00:17:40:15 - 00:18:13:00
Speaker 2
So I would say that's so interesting. You know, the biggest the biggest aha and kind of endorsement for us was with the older the older consumers. And you know, we defined kind of 13 plus there's 18 plus like we have all of these kind of segments of consumer. But as you get into middle age and later because we also talk to seniors, it amazing the role that play play is sometimes recognized and kind of defined and they've created language and understanding around it.
00:18:13:02 - 00:18:15:07
Speaker 2
Oftentimes they're talking about it as like oh that's play.
00:18:15:09 - 00:18:45:17
Speaker 1
And that's so amazing to me because it changes. I mean, I don't want to get into the business, too much. I have a couple of questions around that in a, in a little bit, Chris, but obviously in terms of the interest and the capabilities or like the leveling, these insights about age and stages and certainly like getting, getting into elders are much less just general adults changes kind of what the offering of play must be when you're thinking about the mission.
00:18:45:19 - 00:19:11:10
Speaker 2
It does. It does, look, something that is always a surprise. I would say now nowadays, because it's a rather new phenomenon, and that's only happened in the last 4 or 5 years. And I'll ask you the question and maybe, you know, maybe we've talked about it before, but, the do you do, do you remember what, like the fastest growing segment of toy consumer is in the world, in the industry? No.
00:19:11:12 - 00:19:27:17
Speaker 2
It's it's the adult consumer which, which when you think about toys, toys are specifically designed for children. They have been for, you know, since the dawn of toy existence. And and here it is the fastest growing and now not just the fastest growing, which you could say, well, you know, we just went through Covid. And so, you know, a lot of things have happened.
00:19:27:17 - 00:19:57:15
Speaker 2
And that is true that did that did act as an accelerant of a trend that we were already starting to observe around circa, you know, 2019, 2020. but it's it's not only accelerated, but now it is the single largest segment. So all of these subsegments of consumers, the largest segment of of consumer. And so, you know, we we launched an adult directed platform back in 2020, in February 2020 called Mattel Creations.
00:19:57:17 - 00:20:10:20
Speaker 2
And it was not to make it a sales pitch because it's not. But it was a platform designed specifically to, to engage adult, you know, kind of the 13 plus consumer, those that might be consider themselves like collectors.
00:20:10:22 - 00:20:13:11
Speaker 1
That's how I was going to say, it seems like a collection.
00:20:13:13 - 00:20:45:04
Speaker 2
I'm collecting Barbie dolls, or I'm part of the Red Line Club, and I want to collect Hot Wheels, and those are really deep collector bases. What we found is those active, those acted as kind of on roads to this larger collector. And and adult play enthusiast community. And, and it went from, us selling one toy to a subsegment of adult enthusiasts to being the today in, in Mattel, it's the fifth largest retailer that we have.
00:20:45:04 - 00:21:08:08
Speaker 2
And it's, it's just adults going to one online platform called Mattel Creations. That's amazing. It's wild. It's wild. So that's that's a little bit of a sign of the times. It's it's a different it's a reflection of consumers whether they recognize it or not, the why, they're engaging play. And you can see it. You could see it with some of our our very worthy competitors.
00:21:08:08 - 00:21:20:05
Speaker 2
We brought up Lego before, but like Lego botanicals, we, you know, Hot Wheels is also, is the number one selling toy in the world. Hot wheels is, you know, Hot Wheels sells to both kids and adults. A lot of these kind of ubiquitous.
00:21:20:11 - 00:21:24:13
Speaker 1
You know, that I have a lot of Hot Wheels in my house at the moment.
00:21:24:15 - 00:21:25:18
Speaker 2
I do know.
00:21:25:18 - 00:21:27:02
Speaker 1
Those are not children's.
00:21:27:04 - 00:21:33:22
Speaker 2
I do know this. You you've recently acquired a massive collection, and, and they're worth something too.
00:21:33:24 - 00:22:08:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, we're going to figure it out, but I think, I mean, one of the things that's really interesting and there are a lot of other aspects about the study, I mean, from gender and market differences and things that we're not going to have a chance to get into. Chris. But like with your professional background, which covers physical play and digital gaming and industrial design and business management, you really intimately, I think, understand the dynamics between brand like the the dynamics and the power between brand, that value of play and then how getting it right translates into both consumer love and sustainable business value, which is, I think, what you're talking about.
00:22:08:14 - 00:22:20:20
Speaker 1
Are there some cultural leadership opportunities on the horizon for you guys right now, given these insights and given kind of the changing dynamic of play?
00:22:20:22 - 00:22:41:15
Speaker 2
I, I think I think the answer is the answer is yes. I mean, I think that that, you know, I don't know that anybody wants to be, there's there's always a balance. I don't think that people want to be necessarily preached at. And there's always this, this spectrum that we consider when we're making a toy is like it ranges from, good for me to fun for me.
00:22:41:17 - 00:23:03:17
Speaker 2
and, and you can think about that. As you know, we have learning toys and learning products for our youngest consumers. And you think Fisher-Price and you can think of you can probably imagine what some of those might look like. whether it's rock a stack at a very young age, or things that, that are more, considered more fun for me and Hot Wheels and track and, you know, Thomas, the the train may feel a bit more fun for me.
00:23:03:17 - 00:23:39:21
Speaker 2
Even American Girl inherent inherent in those, in those products are brand values that really do something that is not just developmental on the surface. And we talk about some of the kind of, on the surface values of play making connections and that, you know, experimentation and self-expression, escapism and all of, all of those benefits. But there there are also kind of inherent values that are represented by certain brands, as well.
00:23:39:21 - 00:24:23:15
Speaker 2
And, American Girl is a good one. I'll bring I'll bring that up because in American Girl you're learning stories about, in some cases, heritage characters, in some cases modern characters, and you're learning about, stories of character stories that have real situational moments that are relatable, whether it was a character that was born in the 1800s and you're learning about them today, or whether it's a character that that looks and, looks like you and has situations that maybe you're going through your you're learning about how to navigate through kind of moments, formative moments in life.
00:24:23:15 - 00:24:51:06
Speaker 2
And I think American Girl has always been and continues to be a brand that has a brand of value that delivers that. Barbie. I'll, I'll, I'll bring up as well. Barbie is a, a a door opener for what are the like how how might I aspire to or be something that maybe feels out of reach until I kind of see it or see myself in it?
00:24:51:08 - 00:25:10:03
Speaker 2
And that could be about a career. That could be about a fashion, that could be about an experience. But it's opening doors of possibilities for how kids are seeing the world around them. But it's being put into their hands, and that's making it more attainable to them at a certain age.
00:25:10:09 - 00:25:30:22
Speaker 1
It's so interesting. Sorry to cut you off, because I was just thinking, I mean, Barbie, obviously the movie was quite a phenomenon, right? It was a culture, we're talking culturally cultural relevance. And I mean, the Barbie movie was a cultural phenomenon globally, not only in the U.S. I mean, obviously we don't need to get into, like, again, you could write a dissertation.
00:25:30:22 - 00:25:50:09
Speaker 1
I'm sure many have about why that is and what it meant. But like, what do you what do you is there it was also beautiful marketing for for Mattel again for Barbie. Like it was it was it was probably one of the best executions I've ever seen. What do you think was the moment like, what was that? Do you do you have a do you guys have a feel?
00:25:50:09 - 00:26:01:24
Speaker 1
Is it that people were hungry for play and recognition and some fun and lightness or and it wasn't all light, obviously. Like there was a lot in there that wasn't light at all.
00:26:02:01 - 00:26:21:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, I, I think that there were a lot of reasons and I think that that's, you know, you talk about like four quadrant films and who they're appealing to and why. And I think that, that that was a film that, in in many ways, I mean, the creativity, that Greta Gerwig put into her interpretation of the Barbie brand, I think was a lot of the magic sauce.
00:26:21:16 - 00:26:47:06
Speaker 2
I think that that magic sauce wouldn't have tasted as good if it wasn't on top of something that was truly an authentic representation of what it like. Choose your age. You could be seven years old in a at a Barbie fan, or you could be 70 years old and a Barbie fan. Or you could be somebody that knows Barbie because it's part of kind of the cultural zeitgeist in the world.
00:26:47:08 - 00:27:11:19
Speaker 2
and, and, and know a thing or two about it and it delivered to what you knew or what you understood about that brand. So the idea of like, authenticity, I think was was an important one. It wasn't Greta telling a story painted in pink with the label Barbie that didn't feel authentic to the brand. So but that's authenticity is important, I would say building off of that.
00:27:11:19 - 00:27:22:17
Speaker 2
And you've heard me talk about this because actually, when I think you're in my first not actual physical interaction was it was a it was a distance interaction in that, it was at,
00:27:22:19 - 00:27:24:08
Speaker 1
South by southwest.
00:27:24:10 - 00:27:44:23
Speaker 2
And I talked about the Mattel playbook, and we talked about the, the very, you know, the example of Barbie in the example of, of American Girl, but brand purpose. So what is the purpose of that brand? Is, is supposed to perpetuate. And I think the idea of feminism and the idea of like possibilities and what that represents through the brand lens brand purpose was very evident in the film.
00:27:45:00 - 00:28:09:07
Speaker 2
Where it really came alive was a cultural relevance. So you think about like what's going on in kind of the world, national politics and everything else and the tensions that are happening and, and empowerment and, and, and kind of the realities of the real world in the escapism and the opportunities of a fantasy world. And, and how do I actually take control of the things that feel totally out of control?
00:28:09:09 - 00:28:31:01
Speaker 2
there's a cultural relevance aspect of the interpretation in that Barbie movie that I think was spot on. And then it goes to another aspect of the playbook, which you've heard me talk about, consumer centric innovation, which is understanding from a consumer insights point of view. What are people? What is the itch that we need scratch? What do people want to hear even if they don't know that they want to hear it?
00:28:31:03 - 00:28:52:09
Speaker 2
How can you deliver it in a way that that creates that appetite and ultimately, that, that success. So I feel like when you think of brand purpose and consumer centric innovation and cultural relevance, the, the, the short answer that I found a way to make long is the intersection. The intersection. I think of those things is what made the Barbie movie truly resonate.
00:28:52:11 - 00:29:16:10
Speaker 1
It's so cool because, and and I mean, you're a designer and you lead design and there is a playbook, right? And it's about brand values, but it's also obviously about prototyping and playfulness and testing and consumer insights and and design and materiality and all of these things. I mean, I've, I've been to the studio, which is like, I mean, I wish everyone in the world could have that same opportunity.
00:29:16:10 - 00:29:37:15
Speaker 1
It was so amazing. It was it was it's one of my highlights of my career. And I've had many, but you know that I guess I'm going to ask you a really hard question. or maybe it's going to be really easy question. On a scale of 1 to 10, Chris, you're always like, you know, playbook or formula for design and your job on a scale of 1 to 10, how much play is involved?
00:29:37:15 - 00:29:42:05
Speaker 1
Ten being like all play and one being like all business because we're going into business questions next.
00:29:42:07 - 00:30:01:22
Speaker 2
Oh boy. That is the really that that that is a hard question. I you know, I think that the play the play quotient you know I wish it was always ten. I think there are aspects of my role that allow me to, to we all code switch put it, you know, depending on whether in the boardroom or in the playroom.
00:30:01:24 - 00:30:21:14
Speaker 2
and I do. I like to code influence in that, you know what, what I, what I try to bring to conversations that may be more serious or more business oriented and an element of play to both remind us, why we're here and who we serve. so, you know, it's maybe a seven or an eight.
00:30:21:14 - 00:30:40:00
Speaker 2
It's not as that we would expect, because I think that in all aspects like design, creativity and play can work their way in and, and that can be as simple as an engagement or a conversation. and, you know, not not that everything has to like, you know, turn into a game of, of of, you know, Uno or thumb wrestling.
00:30:40:00 - 00:31:07:00
Speaker 2
But but I think that there is an aspect of playfulness that we have unique position as a company that that develops, designs and delivers play. should have. So and I think that there's, there's, there is tolerance and and engagement at all levels of the company for that kind of orientation. And you've been through that, you've been through the design center, you've been through the studio and you've seen it.
00:31:07:00 - 00:31:35:03
Speaker 2
And whether you're sitting in marketing or, you know, consumer insights and you're like role and consumer insights as part of design, which is kind of unique and so awesome kind of the product world. But I think it makes total sense when you really think about, again, who we serve and what we create. but you could, I didn't take you to the, to the corporate tower where legal is, but even there, they have product proudly on display that, you know, not that all the conversations are as fun as the ones that we're having over here in the design studio.
00:31:35:03 - 00:31:36:20
Speaker 2
But, but but.
00:31:36:24 - 00:31:38:00
Speaker 1
That's what that's what we think.
00:31:38:18 - 00:31:40:06
Speaker 2
Yes.
00:31:40:08 - 00:32:03:08
Speaker 1
so, so I mean, again, this thing can go in so many directions, but I mean, I think just really, really briefly, I want to give you a chance to talk about some of the more serious aspects of the responsibility that you have. As you know, one of the largest toy makers in the world, covering all these categories and now expanding not only from like developmental stages that we expect in Fisher-Price, but now, like going up to elders as well.
00:32:03:10 - 00:32:28:02
Speaker 1
I mean, there is a growing, anticipation that, let's call it innovation, but really technological developments are going to influence us. And you talked about digital platforms. What do you see? And and Chris, I'm going to try to be like super brief on these because I have four questions related to this. But like what's the role of technology and emerging tech specifically like VR, AR, AI, blockchain in in the future of play?
00:32:28:04 - 00:32:47:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think that there enablers both on the creation side as well as on the, the kind of delivery side in the product side. we so you've probably heard me. I've said it before, and it's the kind of, maybe, maybe it's a little bit old, but, you know, like gen alpha gen glass, you know, they, they could swipe before they wipe.
00:32:47:18 - 00:33:10:19
Speaker 2
What? It's it's kind of a joke that feels like totally true. and the the the fact of the matter is, is that we have digital natives as the core of our consumer today. They love we also study what is the convergence, where they they love to play with digital as much or more than they love to play with physical toys.
00:33:10:19 - 00:33:32:12
Speaker 2
And the convergence is very young. It's like, you know, almost it's under four years old now where they they love to do that. Now, what we've learned also is their love of of one does not mean that they don't love the other just as much or even more. The like play consumption with physical objects continues to be healthy and thrive and we're in a, you know, a growth industry.
00:33:32:14 - 00:33:59:17
Speaker 2
All of that to say, I see I see opportunities that relates to play. AR, VR. I mean, there are inherent issues like we've been in the AR and VR space, there are inherent issues, developmental issues. If you're in a VR situation that the youngest of age and also there are there are physical, physical issues of of even being able to, kind of manage some of these technologies effectively at some of the, younger stages.
00:33:59:17 - 00:34:22:13
Speaker 2
So, you know, I think we're we're working through that and we're experimenting internally. We've done some things with like View-Master VR and AR really, really cool, maybe a bit ahead of its time. and we will continue to, to play in those spaces. Even with AI, we launched boy, this is now over a year ago, we got a TOTY a toy of the year nomination for it.
00:34:22:18 - 00:34:42:12
Speaker 2
But Pictionary versus AI, a bit of playing Pictionary against each other, drawing it. Now you're drawing, you're physically drawing, but you're now playing as a community against the AI. Awesome game. But what we've learned is there's a little bit of fear, uncertainty, and doubt as it relates to AI tied to Pictionary that consumers weren't ready to buy. So while it did okay, it didn't.
00:34:42:14 - 00:34:44:21
Speaker 2
You know, it didn't blow the doors off the barn.
00:34:44:23 - 00:34:48:12
Speaker 1
But these are some strategic bets that you're testing and learning, right?
00:34:48:16 - 00:35:10:15
Speaker 2
Bets. I mean, they're bets we do 4000 toys, 4000 new toys a year. So it's we're constantly in the innovation churn for Mattel, for the toy industry in general is around 50% of our product assortments are brand new every single year. So we're always, you know, there are failures and you have to have failures in order to get the, the big wins.
00:35:10:17 - 00:35:12:08
Speaker 1
But we're gonna continue...
00:35:12:10 - 00:35:34:01
Speaker 2
No, no, no, no, I like, but we're going to continue to do that in the play space from a craft, from an execution. If you're a designer sitting in Mattel, I mean, like as long as I'm sitting in this seat, part of my job and role is to make sure that that my teams have the best, tools and technology available to them to do their best work.
00:35:34:02 - 00:35:59:12
Speaker 2
And that could be about productivity, that could be about quality of execution, that could be about all of the above. AI represents significant unlocker in terms of building super human capabilities into normal humans like you and me. And so we've, you know, we continue to work with multiple partners. I'll bring up one that we've talked about publicly in the past, which is Adobe, you know, Adobe Creative Suite and Creative Cloud.
00:35:59:13 - 00:36:30:23
Speaker 2
You know, it's it's a set of tools that creators have had since, you know, PhotoShop, Illustrator, go on and on and on. So it must have been Illustrator 1.0 back in 1990, but the, but the the like Firefly is kind of, you know, obviously its next level in terms of taking one mundane like generative fill. I mean, mundane tasks that that have to be done in the world of graphic design and packaging and execution, which is part of the creative team.
00:36:31:00 - 00:36:48:18
Speaker 2
and it's it's it's not hitting the easy button because you still have an operator that knows what their design vision is. And but now their path to execution can be truncated in certain certain areas. We went through it with 3D printing. We went through it as we've shifted our all of our wax and clay sculptors to haptic arms over 20 years ago.
00:36:48:18 - 00:37:14:14
Speaker 2
I mean, it's it's it's technology. It's profound. But I would say that the short answer is the door is is wide open in terms of our exploration, providing we're doing it in a way that is safe for our consumers and also is also, safe and pragmatic in terms of how we're managing our IP and other people's IP.
00:37:14:16 - 00:37:34:23
Speaker 1
That's, it's that's an important piece I want to touch. On the last question before the last question, Chris, you talked earlier. First of all, you said like the toy industry overall is refreshing and introducing new about 50% of SKUs or products a year. I know that's not specific, but it's a lot. I mean, when we're talking about volumes like this, it's a lot.
00:37:35:00 - 00:37:56:18
Speaker 1
You also talked about using Barbie as an example, American Girl in representation. You know, you're a juror at iF Design, at the design award. Now you get to see a lot. You know, I also head up global sustainability and impact the social and environmental factors that are increasingly relevant. It seems to me as a as a marker of design excellence.
00:37:56:20 - 00:38:13:07
Speaker 1
How are you also thinking about that in kind of like, a huge portfolio like are there are like how is environment, you know, kind of impact and social entering the conversation? Or has it always been there at Mattel?
00:38:13:09 - 00:38:37:01
Speaker 2
I mean, I think when you talk about, you know, all the way back to origin, I don't think it's always been there. But I would say that the last, the last 15 years or so, certainly the last decade, it's been much more significant in terms of our planning processes, how we're sourcing, and ultimately how we're manufacturing and putting in a consumer's hands, as you know, it's there's we're we're we are a mass market company.
00:38:37:03 - 00:39:02:06
Speaker 2
and, and one of our values is not just to create the greatest play in the world, but also to make sure that we create the greatest access for that play to the broadest range of consumers. Yeah, that in itself has cost dynamics and availability dynamics and scale dynamics. What can you get at scale when you're doing, in some cases, millions and millions of units of, of things?
00:39:02:08 - 00:39:26:07
Speaker 2
what I will say is it is part of our design process. So we do go through, design training so that we're designing for circularity, and understanding from a materials, from a processes and from an execution point of view, what has to be true to ensure that we're creating the least impact, the greatest joy, and continue to ensure that we're accessible.
00:39:26:09 - 00:39:53:01
Speaker 2
So it is it is definitely an intersection, that that represents, represents kind of the objective that each of our designers and, and creators has. But it's it's critically it's critically important. I will say there are certain brands that we, that we use as kind of the sharp end of the stick or the wedge in order to explore and do things more aggressively before they have to truly scale out.
00:39:53:03 - 00:39:59:24
Speaker 2
So we have the largest vehicle portfolio in the world. We have Pixar Cars and Hot Wheels and Matchbox Matchbox movies coming out next year, by the way.
00:40:00:01 - 00:40:03:05
Speaker 1
Cool and learned here first guys.
00:40:03:07 - 00:40:30:21
Speaker 2
All right. Here first. Exactly. but Matchbox is is one of those that we, we use as kind of a creative wedge. And so we're playing with, with recyclable materials, not just conventional resins, but also with, diecast materials and, cool. And and instead of using, you know, a PET packaging or using a pulp, insert.
00:40:30:21 - 00:40:48:23
Speaker 2
So it's not just sustainable and recyclable, but it's compostable. And so we're like, we're doing it right. How are we designing a place set that might have an electronics module in it so that with the, with the press of one button, by a parent, they can separate the electronics from the plastics and
00:40:49:00 - 00:41:11:00
Speaker 1
Which is part of the developmental education piece to right for the next gen. Yeah. Really interesting. Yeah. Chris, we're at time. So in I would argue that in both your personal and your professional life, from what I know, what I've read, what I've experienced since we've gotten to know each other a little bit. You're really a champion of the transformative power of play.
00:41:11:02 - 00:41:25:15
Speaker 1
So as you know, the final question I ask every guest as you look forward into the future, let's call it 25 years, which is 2050 since crazy. What's your greatest hope for the future of play?
00:41:25:17 - 00:41:50:24
Speaker 2
you know, there's not one. I look at play and I look at kind of our human journey as we're on a continuum. There's there's not really, and an end goal. that said, I do think that, things like, you know, the all of the materials that we create and the shape of play reminded me of is that, the journey of play is incremental and the value is, is incremental as well.
00:41:50:24 - 00:42:18:02
Speaker 2
And so my, my hope over the next 50 years or five years or five months or five minutes is that we we continue to get valuable play out there that enriches people's lives. And, and frankly, my most favorite value that play delivers is social connection, bringing people together. And so my hope is that we continue to do things that make people's lives better and make the communities better.
00:42:18:02 - 00:42:30:05
Speaker 2
So that's that's the hope 50 years from now, what does that look like? I think it's a version of of today. But we continue to progress. And I think, even even five years is going to be pretty great.
00:42:30:07 - 00:42:45:04
Speaker 1
I think that's right. And I think connection if we if we sum it up, what you just said, in a world that's like kind of fragmented, disjointed, play is an opportunity for connectivity and pulling people together. So, it's it's a it's a beautiful hope, Chris.
00:42:45:04 - 00:42:54:12
Speaker 2
Next time you're here, Lisa, we're playing a game in the studio. We'll we'll walk around, get inspired, maybe print something out in the 3D lab and then come back and play a game of.
00:42:54:15 - 00:43:03:09
Speaker 1
Happily any time, any time. Chris Down, Chief Design officer at Mattel, thank you so much for joining us today on Future of XYZ.
00:43:03:11 - 00:43:05:10
Speaker 2
Thank you Lisa, I'll talk to you soon.
00:43:05:12 - 00:43:22:19
Speaker 1
Talk to you soon for everyone watching and listening. if you didn't already know, you can watch on YouTube. You can also leave us a five star review anywhere you get your favorite podcast or follow us on Instagram. We look forward to seeing you again in two weeks time. Thanks again!