Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;15;22
Pri
Hey, everyone!
00;00;15;27 - 00;00;18;13
Aaron
Yo, yo, what is up?
00;00;18;15 - 00;00;19;26
Chris
Welcome to Net Society.
00;00;20;03 - 00;00;23;01
Pri
Welcome to nerd society. What do we want to talk about today?
00;00;23;03 - 00;00;28;19
Aaron
Well, we're here with the future crypto czar, Chris. He's going to be taking that over in 2028.
00;00;28;20 - 00;00;41;27
Chris
I hear so many pleas to stop with this talk. I have nothing to do with with administration. It follows the rules about you should care about crypto in 28 rate. This industry's going.
00;00;41;29 - 00;00;52;01
Aaron
I think it's I think it's following a very standard trajectory. We're in the instant we're in the beginnings and first innings Derek what do you think here of the installation phase?
00;00;52;02 - 00;00;59;10
Derek
I like the installation phase. Sequence I like I like where you're going with that last week. I think that sounds right. First couple innings of the installation phase.
00;00;59;12 - 00;01;02;14
Pri
It's actually the implement phase to be clear.
00;01;02;16 - 00;01;11;07
Aaron
Yeah okay. Yeah sure. Installation, deployment. Yeah. We can work on the the exact terminology. But you know times are changing. Tech's changing.
00;01;11;10 - 00;01;35;05
Chris
It's funny to see, you know, the things people are getting excited about now like sarcastic that NFT drop last week where they had Forecaster Pro and yeah something they were crowing about was the cost of money for doing it in Usdc, where, I don't know, I think they sold 10,000, a 120. I get you 1.2 million. If I can do math, maybe it's 12 million.
00;01;35;05 - 00;01;55;08
Chris
I'm a little tired right now. But anyway, you know, there like this would have cost us blah, blah, blah with, you know, the 2.5% merchant processing gig. And we did it all in Usdc for like ten bucks. And look, that is real. It's substantial. It's a huge improvement. And that's the sort of thing that's going to drive adoption.
00;01;55;14 - 00;02;21;27
Chris
But when you think of what crypto was and how people got into all of this, and it's basically, I guess what I'm getting at is a changing of the values, the priorities, right? As we start getting into this installation phase or whatever the other one you just said was. But, right, like, it's just interesting to note what becomes important as as you start getting into these moments and, you know, it's it's payment rails.
00;02;21;27 - 00;02;26;29
Chris
Everyone is all about the payment rails in their own little way.
00;02;27;01 - 00;02;29;11
Pri
The capital formation and payment rails.
00;02;29;14 - 00;02;53;27
Aaron
Yeah. I've increasingly been just thinking, like all this. It's a little bit like at the core, it's all business logic, right? And I was thinking about this, you know, like a lot of the stuff crypto does. Well, it's it needs to kind of fade behind the scenes. And it's kind of like useful when it's like really useful. I'm just thinking about like a company corporation, you know, like nobody really cares about stock until it really matters, right?
00;02;53;28 - 00;03;19;02
Aaron
Like it really matters when the business is scaled up, like when the business is ready for public scrutiny. It just kind of like sitting there floating in the background. Super important. Right? But it's not like front and center. I feel like after or in the during the course, this installation phase, like that's what we're going to see crypto feel a little bit more like like I think that a lot of like the, the tokens or incentives or, you know, coordination that can happen.
00;03;19;05 - 00;03;24;07
Aaron
It will probably just fade a little bit more into the background related to it. And like I think that's okay.
00;03;24;15 - 00;03;54;07
Derek
Yeah. I mean, it gets us it gets us back to kind of like the old adage, which is just like blockchains are just asset transfer devices, like that's what they are. They allow you to record assets, they come with information contacts and move them around to other people. Yeah. Through that lens, I think like this like upgraded back end for worlds, you know, value and applications that kind of that sit on top of that and allow you to do stuff with, more distributed asset ledger system.
00;03;54;09 - 00;04;17;24
Derek
That feels right. I think that that sounds right to me. And, you know, I think there's, there's the the part of me that's that still very interested in, like, how far that can be pushed into, like the application layer to kind of create new types of new new types of products and services that maybe don't lean so heavy on maybe the finance asset transfer part of the, the, the, the properties of blockchains.
00;04;17;24 - 00;04;35;14
Derek
So, maybe the fact that like, it's a database that anyone can, can read or write to, like there's properties in there that might make a consumer product really interesting or, you know, the the fact that things can become incidentally divisible and, you know, ultimately, like there could be some really interesting product service area on top of that.
00;04;35;17 - 00;04;49;07
Derek
But I think you're right, for the vast majority of, of just like stuff that this technology unlocks, it's really just like, you know, I think one very simple framing is just like, it's just a, a better way to move things from A to B around the world.
00;04;49;14 - 00;05;06;11
Chris
So, Derek, in this mindset does things like, I don't know, like Awacs and their game development fund and putting MMO RPGs on chain is that stuff completely washed out to sea and in hindsight looks foolish.
00;05;06;11 - 00;05;28;08
Derek
Now I was just having this conversation with all of my team. We were just we were going through kind of like gaming on chain and and what's working, what's not quite working as well as we would have hoped. At this point. There's stuff that's definitely working. I do this thing every week with a couple of people that I grew up with where we, we, we, we were replaying Diablo two or destruction one night a week, just for a couple of hours late at night.
00;05;28;09 - 00;05;47;16
Derek
This game is 25 years old and like, it's in many ways like we were all playing and, you know, middle school and high school and, it was like a thing that we did when we were much younger, you know, like the earliest, the earliest feelings of, for me, like why blockchains made sense and why digital objects made sense really emanated from, like, playing World of Warcraft in the other two.
00;05;47;16 - 00;06;12;11
Derek
And a lot of these, like early MMO was like 25, 30 years ago. And I think from that perspective, Chris, you know, to me, like this idea of like being able to truly own your assets, truly own your, you know, your your your assets that you, you know, can curate inside of a game or being able to own like the most valuable unit of account, the stone of Jordan, and being able to to lend or trade against that.
00;06;12;17 - 00;06;35;28
Derek
I mean, these were behaviors that we already simulating with like eBay 25 years ago. When you like sell an account with a bunch of stuff in it. I to me the at least for the gaming thesis, like it's unquestionable that having a distributed decentralized asset ownership system makes far more sense to me now. You know, the the logistics or like the operations of how you do that.
00;06;35;28 - 00;07;05;06
Derek
You know, there's there's definitely things that I think have worked well. And then there's things that I think that need radical improvement. But I still hold that like let's call it like a blockchain, like avalanche that's, you know, really positioning itself for something like the gaming tailwind. I think that's directionally correct. I just think, you know, I think for many where these are venture style businesses that have limited runway, they have to make very specific choices that are charting out new territory in real time, trying to figure out what are the behavior patterns that make the most sense around it.
00;07;05;06 - 00;07;24;26
Derek
And it's not surprising that we're just seeing kind of an obliteration of companies that aren't able to kind of get to that next step before they're able to figure out those patterns. I do think that those patterns become figured out and I've seen, you know, certain projects already kind of like take the right steps to, to making, you know, that that jump make more sense.
00;07;24;26 - 00;07;33;22
Derek
So I don't know if that directly answers your question, but I'm still so bullish on the the theme in the thesis. Just keeping an eye out for more of like the execution side of things.
00;07;33;24 - 00;08;06;24
Chris
From your vantage point right now in this moment, do you think this ultimately just becomes, a plug and play, you know, middleware as, as vacation, like a modular layer that then the traditional video game industry ultimately incorporates and whatever their production process is, 5 to 10 years from now, it's video game specific. And then it's really just that asset layer, right, that they they pulled a service into, kind of like a subverting of crypto's role in a stack to, to more of a complementary player.
00;08;06;29 - 00;08;13;26
Chris
Or do you really think we're going to be running, you know, all sorts of executions on chain related to in game activity?
00;08;13;26 - 00;08;31;20
Derek
Yeah. Great question. And this is kind of like the heart of it right now. I think at a minimum, blockchains as an asset management system that is sovereign, owned by a player is the right direction. And I think that is like the the atomic unit of why I think blockchains in gaming work so well, for one another.
00;08;31;22 - 00;08;51;10
Derek
I think from there it becomes a little bit more opaque and it becomes like a little bit more of a question of what belongs on chain versus maybe what isn't as important. I think we're seeing lots of teams kind of play with like the spectrum of, hey, we think, you know, all everything should be on chain. Like everything should be self-contained.
00;08;51;10 - 00;09;19;13
Derek
It should be procedural. RNG should be, you know, delegated to a to a contract to we we don't want to touch anything. And that's just like not how good games are built right now. Like, like there is a there is a lever of control required to kind of like balance a game in real time and to modify and make changes very quickly so that, like, things don't become stale, to kind of like push updates to the game that make it more playable and interesting, or change direction on art style or whatever it may be.
00;09;19;13 - 00;09;41;20
Derek
And so there's this tension between like more on chain versus lost on chain that I don't know. And it's in a tier to get even a little more granular. Chris. It really depends on game style to where it's like for MMOs like these, these online economies that are so, you know, where people are spending like years of their life inside asset management and true asset management makes total sense.
00;09;41;20 - 00;09;59;12
Derek
But for a Moba where like, you know, games are ten minutes or less and like they're, you know, you're you're basically leveling up in real time and asset management isn't as important. And maybe some of the logic of things being on chain isn't as important. And it's not to denigrate like the game style. Like I like playing Mobas.
00;09;59;12 - 00;10;24;11
Derek
And I know it's like, you know, has been historically like over the last five, ten years, one of the fastest growing game types in the world. It's just like it's it's harder to see why things being on chain solve issues or make sense for that style right now. So yeah, anyway, I'm kind of like I'm kind of wandering around answering this question, but I guess, I guess my view is like, we have blockchains are awesome because you get all like, these really cool properties with them.
00;10;24;19 - 00;10;48;21
Derek
You get like trust minimization, you get true sovereign ownership, you get composability and interoperable interoperability. You get, essentially be able to kind of like fraction down any asset into kind of like infinite divisibility and use that as a possibly a payment token that, you know, doesn't have, interchange fees associated with it. It's like, you know, you can send value at the speed of light without any of the frictions that we use when we use payment processors.
00;10;48;21 - 00;11;09;11
Derek
And so there's really cool properties that I think are going to get used in all types of games. I just think for teams that are raising 4 to $8 million, that can peer out on a 2 to 3 year horizon, that have to hit certain milestones and able to kind of like keep moving forward as a, as a product and as a business.
00;11;09;17 - 00;11;25;12
Derek
It's really difficult when the when let's call it like maybe the field is a little bit hazy and opaque to know what to do in terms of where to use blockchains and where not to use blockchains. It's just it's difficult for them to figure out what are the right behavior patterns to build for on limited runways and having to make calls in real time.
00;11;25;12 - 00;11;42;16
Derek
And I we get out of this phase eventually. And like these, these patterns become obvious and like people start borrowing and remixing and using them. And all of a sudden we have like this hot new game type or style that's using crypto and blockchains in the perfect way. And then you've got like a thousand titles. I try to write on it.
00;11;42;16 - 00;11;54;17
Derek
Success in the top five games in the App Store, the decentralized App Store, all these games, and they're growing super quickly. We'll get there. I just think it's about having patience and keeping an eye on where things are going and how things are evolving.
00;11;54;24 - 00;12;21;18
Chris
But I think that's a great tease and set up for a guest we hopefully are having on in the next, episode or two, who is doing, stuff in the adjoint economy. And, you know, we can start learning about the integration of AI blockchain fully on chain games and see where that strange flavor is going. So hopefully we're going to have, lo from realms on pretty soon, and we can pick this up and take it in a different angle.
00;12;21;20 - 00;12;23;08
Chris
Three over to you I.
00;12;23;08 - 00;12;37;08
Pri
Love, love, I would love to. I guess what I was thinking about actually, when you were chatting to Derek, we're just chatting with someone on the World Coin team and yeah, I'm bringing up World Coin. Well, it was kind of interesting that he said, it's just like the number of users on World Coin is just for.
00;12;37;14 - 00;12;40;16
Aaron
They have users. It's like a million people.
00;12;40;16 - 00;13;06;16
Pri
And he said, like, if you go to Argentina, it's like 50% chance that like that Uber driver has other World Coin app on their phone. I mean Argentina was like, that's pretty interesting. But they like play. They play the mini games like there's an app called Orb on World Coin or people just like Claim World coin. You know, every day and like, you know, when when people launch games on there, there's actually a decent number of players and it feels like you're in the app.
00;13;06;16 - 00;13;25;18
Pri
So the most of the time they're like all the crypto stuff. To the point earlier is that it's completely like abstracted away. So they didn't even really realize it. They just like see crypto in their account. But I was very surprised to see their growth. They launched, I think, in like La Elena and like 4 or 5 major U.S. cities like last week.
00;13;25;18 - 00;13;45;29
Pri
And I think I forgot how many thousands of people have already done the orb scanning. But it was like at least like a couple thousand. It's interesting to see in South America. I think that's like their biggest market. But I was just shocked at the users. Like you were saying, if you launch a new app on there, you're like likely to get at least a couple million people using it instantaneously.
00;13;45;29 - 00;14;10;25
Pri
And they're not like your typical users. So that's why he was just noting, like on forecaster and all these like mini apps, they're sure we have like a ton of users there and on base and all that. But like, I think people are sort of feeding world coin and like the people in the users, they're maybe that's kind of their approach is like almost something like there's like an initial token incentive to get you in and then you're kind of in literally this like mini app world playing these games, earning world token.
00;14;10;29 - 00;14;32;09
Pri
And that's just universe. And I think World Coin's value prop obviously is just, you know, humans versus agents but or human authentication but versus agents. So it's a little bit different. But it's kind of interesting because assuming that there's not too much boring of world coin and these are all real humans, it's it's actually a fair number of users on there.
00;14;32;10 - 00;14;33;12
Pri
Like I was pretty shocked.
00;14;33;16 - 00;14;35;20
Derek
That is super interesting. But what's your take?
00;14;35;20 - 00;15;02;00
Aaron
Yeah, I think it's interesting to I also think it's interesting, you know, that it just it's it's pushing into the public consciousness a little bit, you know, with the, the time magazine cover, not the time has the same weight that it does. Or did, you know, a decade plus ago. But it's encouraging to know that there's emerging systems where we can start to get reasonably clean metrics about user bases.
00;15;02;03 - 00;15;27;12
Aaron
I think one of the challenges that people don't love to highlight with crypto is it's really hard to know, like how many actual users, a specific project has just because it is easy to automate certain transactions in different networks, like I, I'm not fully convinced when I look at like, let's say, Solana traffic that any of it is legitimate or maybe 1 or 2%, 3%, 5% is.
00;15;27;12 - 00;15;59;19
Aaron
So it's really hard to kind of orient and build useful things until you, you kind of have some of these ground truths, and it feels like World Coin is the least solved part of that issue. And that's that's interesting. It's also interesting just to feel like there's some acknowledgment that we're going to need to authenticate and need robust, you know, what are in effect, like Self-sovereign identity systems, which has been a big theme in blockchains and crypto and Ethereum for a long time because of all these advancements with AI and automation.
00;15;59;22 - 00;16;04;08
Aaron
So it's just kind of interesting to see that pick up super hard problems to solve, though.
00;16;04;10 - 00;16;43;25
Chris
Yeah, this whole thing is kind of fascinating because like every, every thing in my head wants to be against World Coin, and conceptually I am against World Coin at the same time, you get to live in the world does this. And so what are the lessons here? Right. Like authentication and verification of transactions like some some form of solving the civil problem is certainly fundamental because one thing we learned from, you know, the attempts to create flywheels on all the Ethereum L2 was that it was completely value extractive and left those chains more or less fallow in terms of activity.
00;16;43;25 - 00;17;06;26
Chris
It was really like they invited a plague of locusts in who stripped the incentives bare and really left the conditions on the ground, not in a place where people wanted to continue developing. And so in all these like systems, there's certain inputs where if they go off the rails, it spikes and kills the whole thing. And so the civil issue is, is one of these things.
00;17;06;29 - 00;17;28;07
Chris
Another thing is, is the wherewithal, right. Like how long can you stay in the game until you actually get the boot up and you sort of flywheels that you're looking for and, you know, just we sort of we talked about like access, like game development funds, right? Like, who knows if that program is still going? I imagine it's in a much more diminished form.
00;17;28;07 - 00;17;55;22
Chris
Right. But world Coin, when you look at it in the bigger Sam Altman universe, it's clear that massive amounts of capital are available for this attempt of transformation and that, you know, they're going to have a longer runway than some of these other people. And so, you know, have kind of solved two of the problems that, you know, really ran a lot of these, utilities into the ground was, you know, Sybil in duration.
00;17;55;27 - 00;18;21;09
Chris
And then, you know, we there's this other interesting thing that we talk about, you know, this is big in South America. The the opportunity cost of time is a is a relative thing, right? Depending on like where you are and how expensive it is to be. And so you can create these arbitrage is where you're providing people with mean full rewards relative to like their own life.
00;18;21;09 - 00;18;44;07
Chris
That can incentivize them to stay in these games especially, you know, if it's idle activity, you mentioned have two drivers, right? Like drivers have a fair amount of downtime in their lives. I, I once ran a, product in Australia that like the opportunity it was free international calling where you had to use like your mobile plan but like it didn't make any real sense from like the economics of the US.
00;18;44;07 - 00;19;05;19
Chris
But when you understood the economics in Australia, the user base I had and the value they were getting out of it, which is really calling India, right. Like it clicked. And so there was a lot of things going on in here that, you know, are worth paying attention to and, and understanding, despite the fact that the orb still is creepy as fuck.
00;19;05;21 - 00;19;26;17
Derek
Yeah. On that last point. So so I yeah, I acknowledge like there's there is something about being able to say this person is a human versus this person is a bot. That is a very hard problem and a very worthwhile problem to solve. And I fully believe that that is something that the the people or the groups or the types of folks that went out in solving that problem.
00;19;26;17 - 00;20;00;04
Derek
Like there's a lot of downstream benefits you can, you know, have a marketplace for dating. It sounds like they're partnering with Match.com World Corners on some of this stuff. You can have, like verified gamers playing tournaments around the world. And it sounds like that's something that they're doing with Razer from the last presentation that I watched. So you've got, there's all sorts of like mini games and applications and all sorts of downstream effects of like verifying humans and being able to incentivize them to do things that like once you take bots that are sibling protocols out of the mix, like become very interesting and valuable to the world of product developers.
00;20;00;04 - 00;20;19;29
Derek
I want to tailor their products to just humans. I think that last part of what Chris said is kind of like the thing that I keep fumbling on with World Coin, which is just like, yeah, I don't know when I got into the space, like, you know, the, this idea of like having not having to trust anything other than, like, authenticated code is very compelling to me.
00;20;20;00 - 00;20;39;12
Derek
It's like these are a trust minimized systems in the sense that, like, if you can build your protocol or your product the right way, there was no humans that you needed to trust. There was no technology that you needed to trust, like everything was verifiable. Anyone with the requisite skills could find exactly what was going on under the hood, with how the protocol worked.
00;20;39;12 - 00;21;01;11
Derek
And all you had to do was kind of just, like, not trust the human, but, like, verify and trust the code that was operating in the background as the spaces evolved, like, naturally, the goal was to kind of like abstract some complexity away from folks and like make things a little bit easier to use. And I think at the same time, we're seeing things like world coin pop up, which are very difficult to understand.
00;21;01;11 - 00;21;20;15
Derek
And I say unlike in terms of like how they work and like why they're creepy and, and like the downstream effects of those things. I think the thing that I'm pretty cognizant of is just like, listen, this site, this this concept of like KYC and like having your passport live on some of these database, like, that shit is so broken.
00;21;20;15 - 00;21;45;07
Derek
I mean, you just have to look at like, all of the company data breaches that have happened over the last 15, 20 years, like the the list is just like endless hundreds of millions of people have been affected by like the Equifax and Anthem and LinkedIn and Experian and Yahoo and and crypto. It's like Coinbase and, it's like the most recent one, just like a few weeks ago and Ledger and Binance and like the list is just like it just fucking never ends, dude.
00;21;45;07 - 00;22;04;01
Derek
We're like literally giving away our most valuable personalized data to like, these systems that are honeypots for attacks and I guess my the thing that I'm trying to flag here is just like when you get people that are like giving up their irises, especially in very poor countries. And I'm not I don't want to diminish the work world coin is done.
00;22;04;01 - 00;22;38;24
Derek
I'm actually very impressed and like, I'm a believer that like, they're onto something here. I just want to kind of like argue, you know, side of things when you're collecting these irises from, like, relatively poor countries or even countries like the US, there is the tendency that like, there's so much complexity going on under the hood that you're you could be creating like this irreversible biometric honeypot that like, you can't go back from you can, you know, change your Social Security number and then the events of like a hack or change your name in the in the event of like a security breach here in the US, you can't really change your irises.
00;22;38;24 - 00;22;58;21
Derek
And I'm not saying that that they're xlk tech doesn't work. I'm like, it's it, I know. There they are. They say like the hashes get discarded. And anyway, like the tech is solid and, you know, there's nothing to worry about. But I will say like it is combining and recombining a couple of areas that I am very sensitive to, which is very difficult to trust.
00;22;58;21 - 00;23;18;12
Derek
Products that are building on crypto with things that are irreversible around data. And that combination is why I also feel like this stuff is a little creepy. I'm not. I think there's, we're trading off the ideals of crypto in ways that I don't necessarily think are authentic to why this space worked to begin with, if that makes sense.
00;23;18;15 - 00;23;42;20
Aaron
Yeah. And maybe, I mean, maybe this is an intermediate step because people can't get over their creepiness. Or maybe it's just like, I mean, I guess the counter-argument, just as we suss out the different perspectives, maybe it's a little bit like a generational thing, like those notions of privacy just are manmade. While we may agree with them and may find them creepy, increasingly a generation just don't.
00;23;42;20 - 00;24;02;18
Aaron
They just kind of accept it, even with some of those downsides. It's true. All right. And, you know, and until there's something like really dramatic that happens around it, you know, which I think maybe your brain can see mine can I think, Chris, and maybe yours can see it too. It doesn't really matter. The ease in adoption and utility will kind of went out on that.
00;24;02;19 - 00;24;02;24
Aaron
Yeah.
00;24;02;27 - 00;24;05;21
Derek
Front I think I think that's that's probably right.
00;24;05;23 - 00;24;18;16
Aaron
Yeah. And like I don't know if that's like a UX issue. I don't know if that's like a core design issue, like what you were saying. You know, maybe this is just like the first implementation. There's like a fifth version of this. That's maybe less concerning from those vantage points.
00;24;18;21 - 00;24;25;21
Pri
They didn't help themselves with that creepy ass or though I've got to say, yeah, they couldn't. Yeah, they kind have made that less insane looking.
00;24;25;24 - 00;24;44;19
Aaron
Yeah, I don't disagree. The other thing I, I'm finding interesting about just world Coin, I really, I think a lot of crypto right now is very focused on like traffic coming in, but I don't think they're focused enough on like Web2 coming into crypto. And I think that that's like an underexplored category. And I think it's going to happen pretty quickly.
00;24;44;25 - 00;25;05;29
Aaron
I just I'm having a hard time picturing open AI or you know, grok or some of these other large LMS, like not having some sort of crypto ecosystem in or around it. And I'm assuming that's what Sam to his credits are like when he backed and I think started World Coin. But it feels like that area is a little bit closer.
00;25;06;05 - 00;25;25;23
Aaron
And there's there's just like a I think an underexplored thought around, like, what does it mean when like, you know, meta has a, you know, tokenized ecosystem or X Twitter crack. Right? That whole ecosystem has tokens. And what what happens if OpenAI or clod, you know, have crypto tokens kind of appended to it? Like, what does that world look like?
00;25;25;23 - 00;25;33;12
Aaron
What is crypto look like in that world? Because I feel like that movement is going to come over the top and actually crush a lot of the trad fi stuff.
00;25;33;15 - 00;25;58;15
Chris
Like pretty cool. I don't think it crushes it, but it rides the back of the trad fi, right? Like Travis, I a needs to clean this industry up from a acceptability perspective, but then it needs to demonstrate and lay the groundwork for these efficiencies in, you know, 2%, 3% cost of money or, you know, oh, we wiped out our back office, right.
00;25;58;15 - 00;26;32;06
Chris
Like, it needs to demonstrate the the core utility of of the ledgers and the blockchains and yada, yada yada. And once that happens, right, like once we have a consensus around what stablecoin interop looks like as a replacement for visa or app stores, then that opens the door for the web to ification, right? Because it it makes it more of a modular, you know, insertion point versus, oh, crypto needs to be everything and crypto has to become, you know, has to replace this culture.
00;26;32;06 - 00;26;59;16
Chris
No, crypto needs to become one of the building blocks that sits on the next wave of applications. And I think it's trad fi that that is going to point the way there because they're dealing in such like volume and transaction sizes and they're, they're they're a relatively like captive audience. Right. Like Blackrock deciding it's going to go all in on this then is a forcing function for everyone in BlackRock's ecosystem.
00;26;59;16 - 00;27;32;25
Chris
They don't have the same problems of I don't know, I want to make it decentralized Reddit, or I want to make a decentralized Warcraft in which then they need to go out and one by one by one by one, when this when each person over. Right. And so it's an easier job for them to do. And I think once that in place and Blackrock gets it to the point where meta can then say, okay, I'm bringing my captive audience in, I think that solves a lot of the sort of, you know, like the channel partnership adoption issue, which crypto has never really gotten its its house in order around.
00;27;32;27 - 00;28;04;24
Aaron
Yeah, I think that that that's like a fair way, but it just feels like that. What what's coming in the wake of trad fi is much, much bigger, right? Like the distribution of web2 is just like, so mind bogglingly large. I just have a hard time not kind of viewing it as a wave. Chris. Right. And I think that's kind of like the metagame that's being played, like all of these web2 companies with crypto, you know, after that cleanup is done, like they are all now financial organizations and they want it to be that that way for a long time.
00;28;04;24 - 00;28;23;22
Aaron
I mean, they've seen that model work in other jurisdictions, like in Asia and now like these fully scaled, very muscular, still, like highly executing organizations are going to come into crypto. And I just think whatever that looks like in the wake of that is going to be just very, very different.
00;28;23;25 - 00;28;56;03
Chris
Yeah. Here's to get like even further out or to get like where my head's at right now. The thing that's really going like the silver bullet here is turning this gig economy like, I need to make some money, leverage, point into a casual lifestyle type of thing via, entertainment and services. And so I think we can look at like three different levels of, like how powerful the idea of, oh, I can make some extra money.
00;28;56;03 - 00;29;25;02
Chris
I can supplement my income is across like three different, like, you know, categories in crypto right now. We've talked about World Coin Bar. Castor is another one, right. Like part of why forecaster doesn't click for me. It's because I don't want money out of forecaster. I don't want, future business opportunities out of forecaster. Like I'm not part of their decentralized office culture in which building this where we're laying the groundwork for our own collective prosperity.
00;29;25;02 - 00;29;54;13
Chris
Like, if you can't buy into that around forecaster the culture of forecasters. IC if you're a lighthouse forecaster and you believe that I just need a social layer that's capable of executing transactions and transmitting value, and then I can unlock what I want to do in my life. You fucking love forecaster. And so that's like a second flavor of this idea of, hey, we're going to give you the ability to make money and the power that has on it.
00;29;54;13 - 00;30;17;04
Chris
Right. To me, like forecaster has big moon bird energy right in that moon birds. I think part of the appeal of moon birds was like you were kind of like a VC Larp, right? It was like VC reality TV where Kevin Rose came in and, you know, kind of decentralized that whole like startup culture. And it attracted like a different group of people in crypto.
00;30;17;04 - 00;30;38;01
Chris
And I, they were like more web two adjacent. And they felt like it was just democratization. But it was still a very centralized, managed project product, right? That like, you were constrained by their shipping schedules or forecasters and much more open where forecasters saying, hey, that same sort of vibe, we're going to open these things up at the root level so that you can go build on top of us.
00;30;38;01 - 00;30;41;21
Chris
Like I do think there's something interesting in there.
00;30;41;27 - 00;31;08;29
Aaron
Yeah. Me too. Like I love that part of forecaster. I also think that is another thread like around once you start to solve some of these simple identity issues, whether it's like World Coin or something else, I think it maybe can avoid some of these problems. Chris. Like, you don't need to like overly financialized certain things. Like really, I do think what people want or just like solutions to some of those simple problems like X that actually had authenticated humans on it, you know, would probably be a thousand times better.
00;31;09;04 - 00;31;30;11
Chris
Oh, it'd be a million times better. Just to finish off my thought that the third strata of this, like we can capture your attention for the sake of reward, is this loud thing that's like polluting the timeline and info. Phi. Right? Like that's the most mercenary. Speculative. Everyone knows what's going on about that. It's not going to change the world.
00;31;30;11 - 00;31;50;06
Chris
It's hey, I need like a short term game to play in which if I play it well and the cards break right, I get a little payday out of it, and therefore I'm willing to hoard myself and just yell louder, yo, over and over on Twitter and completely debase any form of reputation I have for the sake of coins.
00;31;50;08 - 00;32;15;06
Chris
Right? That's like a third flavor of this that's happening right now. So I don't know. It's is very interesting to see, like there is a massive power that allows projects to hold audiences captive over rewards based systems, and it's playing out. I think it's the single biggest leverage point these products have, and will are only just beginning to understand how to exploit that.
00;32;15;06 - 00;32;28;13
Chris
And so that to me is like ultimately how, you know, when we get this web2 ification of this whole world, that's what's going to really, really make it go is basically bread and circuses for consumers.
00;32;28;15 - 00;32;59;19
Aaron
Well, I'm hoping it's not bread and circuses, but I, I guess my, my thought and I thought that was really interesting, Chris and I agree with that. I just think it, it's, it's gonna go, you know, it's like coming it's probably worth like mapping out what that that's going to look like. It's it's a really big wave. Like if people think that trad fi waves are exciting and interesting, and I know here we're not as interested in RWA man, but I do think like mapping out what that looks like when like US tech comes to crypto in mass.
00;32;59;22 - 00;33;12;19
Aaron
I just think there's a lot of interesting questions related to it and not just like legacy US tech like the latest and greatest, right? Like all these like large LMS. Like I think they really are going to converge and maybe converge a little bit quicker than people think.
00;33;12;21 - 00;33;37;21
Pri
And to be clear, you're you're web2 coming into crypto for monetization purposes. And even like incentive reward systems like that kind of thing, that's separate than the argument that like, they may use tokens, tokenized equity as a means of liquidity. Like you think like actually like core because like that's the part where it's like they could use it internally and like whatever product they have.
00;33;37;21 - 00;33;56;29
Pri
So like let's say, you know, plus X has their own currency. They just partner with telegram. They'll have their own currency and an incentive mechanism system. But then they also might like tokenized because I have a feeling like yes, 100% for the former. And then for the latter, I think I definitely could see some web2 internet native platforms using tokens.
00;33;57;06 - 00;34;34;25
Aaron
Yeah, I don't know if they I don't know if they took tokenize. Like to me that's like the capital formation piece. I mean, more like these primitives, right? These crypto primitives, like a token wallets, identity authentication and reward systems, like kind of the gamification pieces, like they're all going to get like bundled up and distributed with very, very large scaled U.S tech networks and the reorientation of different businesses and the like hybridization of how different industries used to operate it.
00;34;34;25 - 00;34;55;06
Aaron
Just going to it's just going to change. Right. So like, you know, right now in the States, like very simplified. Right. You've got like finance on the East Coast and like tech on the West Coast. But at the end of it you really just have tech. It's kind of like almost nearing the end point or another step towards that end point of like the software is eating the world thesis.
00;34;55;12 - 00;35;05;00
Aaron
And I just think a lot of the, the traditional finance projects, particularly on the East Coast, they're just going to get destroyed, maybe like.
00;35;05;03 - 00;35;32;11
Chris
Here's another framing this, right. Like you have B2B and consumer and all consumer sits on top of B2B. And so B2B has to get its house in order in terms of laying the groundwork, the acceptability, the infrastructure, the interop, so that when these consumer companies need solutions, they can reach into that layer. And so right, like if you start in gaming this, you know, and you had fast forward 1520 years.
00;35;32;11 - 00;35;50;21
Chris
Aaron's dead right that maybe there is no distinction. But to get to that point, I do think we need a world in which we have a stable bill. Everyone agrees on how stablecoins work. They come up with like ways that, you know, everyone can understand it the same way you can understand, like plugging a merchant processor into your system.
00;35;50;24 - 00;36;12;05
Chris
And then those consumer apps are pulling those solutions and integrating them into their world, at which point they unleash it. Yeah. You know, in this like, hey, it's cheaper, it's faster, it's more convenient. But we can also incentivize you with rewards way. And then maybe at that point, yeah. And it is all just tech and we don't really quite have those distinctions.
00;36;12;09 - 00;36;12;25
Chris
Yeah.
00;36;12;25 - 00;36;42;28
Aaron
And I it's not I mean a lot of the financial institutions are very tech heavy. I just think they're not they don't have that consumer distribution that, you know, the tech titans have or future tech titans have. I think it's it's that piece that's interesting. It just kind of like basic conversion right. If if meta has 4 billion users and they convert 10% of their user base into like a crypto or crypto adjacent financial product, they're by far the largest financial institution in the world.
00;36;43;05 - 00;37;22;01
Aaron
Like it's not even close. And there's not really much that, you know, an existing legacy institution can do to compete with that outside of becoming like more niche. Like they just cannot operate at that scale level. And there's a lot of businesses that, that do that right now. And I just think that that just changes the game, like completely, you know, these ideas that I think, like even in the fintech space that people are pushing towards, like open marketplaces, etc., like, I think when you merge like these scaled, networked, ecosystems with crypto, you do have the opportunity to start have having like robust, you know, marketplaces where apps and other, you know, smaller
00;37;22;04 - 00;37;40;01
Aaron
services can kind of get layered on top of it. And that's interesting to me as well. And I haven't wrap my head around what it means for like a large LLM to have, you know, tokens at the core of it. I mean, we've seen some early experiments like Venice in the crypto space, but I mean, like more of the scaled, very large LMS.
00;37;40;03 - 00;37;59;00
Aaron
Are there no more wallets? Right? Do we even have browsers? Like I'm not like I think a lot of fundamental tech assumptions. We just need to really challenge at this point. Like I'm not convinced in five years we have a browser. Like I'm not convinced in five years that we don't have a completely new operating system. Like, I'm not convinced that you need a crypto wallet in the same form factor.
00;37;59;02 - 00;38;06;14
Aaron
Like there's just a lot of things that I think start to, to, like open up and you need to begin to question. That's kind of where my head's been going from.
00;38;06;14 - 00;38;33;07
Pri
First principles. What do you I guess kind of on that note, because I don't know, I'm assuming all of you guys saw the Johnny I, Sam Altman acquisition aka hire whatever you want to call it. I'm sure you guys saw the device and as part of like the language I think in the journal article was like the idea there was to actually get get users away from screen time and like, this is like a means to actually pull users away from screens.
00;38;33;13 - 00;38;49;14
Pri
I couldn't tell if that meant like, because people will have this device listening to them, that a lot of the work that they intended to do on screens will just kind of get done this like a genetic device, so they don't have to worry about it, or if it was like some sort of like spatial computing thing. Like I didn't really understand the logic with that.
00;38;49;14 - 00;39;00;18
Pri
But maybe, you know, I think that that kind of fits into what you're saying and it's a little bit off of chart, but like kind of reminded me of the thinking around where a lot of those large hardware developers are are going to.
00;39;00;23 - 00;39;14;17
Chris
If some of my read of that was just it was prestige. Dustin. Right. That OpenAI has a ton of money and they bought a name. I mean, the device leaves me cold, but you know, I need the iPad, so who knows?
00;39;14;22 - 00;39;25;19
Aaron
I saw the iPad. I was I was excited for the iPad personally. Yeah, the device left me cold. But I think the category is interesting. Like, I don't know. What do you think? Derek I have a couple thoughts, but I heard you.
00;39;25;20 - 00;39;31;13
Derek
Gentlemen, I may have missed this, but did they show a mock of the device? It's kind.
00;39;31;13 - 00;39;35;07
Aaron
Of like. Yeah, I think, I mean, it's.
00;39;35;09 - 00;39;36;07
Pri
Know it was.
00;39;36;07 - 00;39;41;12
Aaron
I don't know if it was real. Is like a puck. It was like an a, like a smoother, better design. Alexa.
00;39;41;17 - 00;40;06;09
Derek
Got it. Interesting. Well, I haven't seen that yet. I guess my maybe my larger thought is just with, with like this technology, we kind of have to rethink, like how people can do the jobs to be done that they need to do in ways that feel like it's to use language like more first principles and more interesting to them, and maybe not repeating the same product patterns that we've had with the last tech stack that people were using to do jobs.
00;40;06;09 - 00;40;31;16
Derek
Sweden. And so I yeah, I've always felt like because we're, we basically are rebuilding like action items, on the internet with natural language that like the role of like the eyeball and, you know, clicking around with a mouse like that probably isn't the, the best form factor as this technology optimizes things, voice and kind of like, like, I don't know, like a little camera on your eye.
00;40;31;16 - 00;40;53;29
Derek
I have these, I have, like, the Facebook or the meta glasses, the meta Ray-Bans, and they're, they're pretty awesome. Like, I'm very present in all my conversations. I'm not looking at a screen, but there are little cameras to the left, and right of my head that are tracking everything. And there there's, a device that spits out audio on the handle that doesn't go inside of the ear but is quiet enough for only me to hear it.
00;40;54;02 - 00;41;09;23
Derek
And so it's just like wearing a pair of glasses and visualizing the world around me and allow me to kind of take pictures and videos. And then I also have, like, eye intelligence in my ear, that like connects via Bluetooth to my phone. And like that to me has been one of the more enjoyable ways to interact with AI.
00;41;09;23 - 00;41;34;12
Derek
I'm just like, it just makes sense. It's like that. I'm just using my voice. I'm not looking at a screen. It still allows me to kind of capture the world around me. And I have like the horsepower of my phone in my pocket. I suppose. Like, that's probably the direction a lot of this stuff is heading in. And why you need somebody like a Johnny Ives to to be a part of the journey who's designed like these, you know, consumer products that have been you know, bought tens of millions, hundreds of millions of times.
00;41;34;19 - 00;41;52;03
Derek
I have I haven't seen the the mark of whatever they were talking about. But, I'm also not like the biggest Johnny AI fan. But I do think it's cool that, like, we were the battleground for like the next generation of devices is now we're now in it and we've got like, we're trying to rein in the Avengers to kind of work on these problems.
00;41;52;04 - 00;41;53;08
Derek
I think that's kind of fun.
00;41;53;10 - 00;42;14;10
Chris
Yeah. If you if you take a long enough view out. Right. Once the, the mediums and the form factors are understood. Right. Having a Johnny Ives is an incredibly valuable. I'm not sure he's the guy who's going to get you there. But once you once you have that and you understand it and you need to crank out hundreds of millions of units, right?
00;42;14;10 - 00;42;34;03
Chris
That's the shop. And so it makes sense once you push this a little further out. And I don't know, like everyone's lives in this world of like only being able to think of one thing at one time. Right? But just look around you and look at how many different modalities you interact with and how many different form factors those things have to have.
00;42;34;05 - 00;42;40;20
Chris
Right? We're going to have a multiplicity of devices, but we can't really know what those devices are going to be.
00;42;40;27 - 00;42;41;29
Derek
It's a great point till we.
00;42;41;29 - 00;43;06;27
Chris
Better understand the UI. Right. And so something I've been waiting for for a while now, and we're just starting to see the first, demonstrations of a World models. Right. Which world models for people who don't know their eyes that are basically real time video generation of immersive environments. And so, you know, everyone is used to right now generative AI.
00;43;07;00 - 00;43;27;07
Chris
All right, a prompt it it creates a tool I can flip it to like an output. We edit all that together and then we throw it on web to social as slop. Right. But there's a whole other use of video which is the in these world models is literally rendering worlds in real time that can become very, very immersive.
00;43;27;07 - 00;43;49;00
Chris
And I think until we have that and understand how that gets used, some of this is still just a puzzle piece where the best that they can do today is push out, a hockey puck that records everything and then like summarizes it for you. Derek, what are you excited about? World models? I feel like you're a dude who's kind of around around the side of the horns.
00;43;49;02 - 00;44;09;06
Derek
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm just. I'm, I, by the way, I, I really resonate with what you just said. I am trying to play with stuff as much as possible. You know, a lot of, it it reminds me of crypto in many ways, which is just like we're seeing a lot of stuff get built without really understanding kind of the, the end point.
00;44;09;06 - 00;44;34;21
Derek
And so, like, these experiments are fun to engage with and play around with. But like, you get the sense when you're when you're when you're playing around with some of these things that like this is not quite it or like, this is not quite where I think that things need to be. And yeah, I don't, I don't I don't really have strong opinions other than it's been really fun for the last couple of years on the AI side or always the crypto side.
00;44;34;21 - 00;44;47;06
Derek
But on the AI side to kind of just, you know, mess around with this stuff and have some fun with it and see where the edges are. And, and kind of just like more passively trying to understand how, where things maybe going.
00;44;47;08 - 00;44;48;15
Aaron
I got to dig in on that.
00;44;48;17 - 00;45;11;29
Chris
Yeah. Check out Odyssey Dot world. And they just put out a demo of their world model. It's it's primitive, but it gives you a better sense of like moving through latent space in video in an AI construct versus, you know, it's almost like generative AI is a video game right now in which you literally can only pilot someone through the environment.
00;45;12;01 - 00;45;49;01
Chris
But once you start stretching your head out and realize, you'll be able to interact with things and that be there'll be more of it modalities you'll be able to pipe in, you know, images, audio. You'll be able to have conversations in these spaces. You can kind of see where the potential for it going, which is, you know, a little more metaverse and this could be something, you know, maybe you pop in briefly with your Ray-Bans on, maybe you're like, fully immersed in an Oculus or, you know, you're you're in and out of these things where, like, you have a, a latent state that has no modalities, right?
00;45;49;03 - 00;45;56;23
Chris
Just a running conversation. And then that jumps out into different modalities depending on where you are at moments in time.
00;45;56;25 - 00;46;00;13
Pri
That's, super cool. There's no crypto element to Odyssey World, right?
00;46;00;15 - 00;46;02;25
Chris
No, it's just pure like AI world.
00;46;02;27 - 00;46;04;29
Derek
Not not yet. Not yet.
00;46;04;29 - 00;46;15;01
Aaron
One of this is like how we're going to be simulations and simulations. Chris, maybe this is the form factor for the metaverse. I just was playing around a little bit.
00;46;15;01 - 00;46;35;07
Chris
I'm super, super bullish on simulation. I think simulation is going to set the core of a lot of this. I always said the metaverse is use case to simulation. Yeah. And that the expressions of those simulations will be multimodal. They're not going to be exclusively like homesteading the Second Life sim sims.
00;46;35;09 - 00;46;40;05
Aaron
Yeah, I was just I loaded it up after you mentioned it. You can definitely see it. I'm excited to play around with that.
00;46;40;07 - 00;46;42;12
Chris
Yeah. You squint, you can see where it's going.
00;46;42;15 - 00;47;04;18
Aaron
I, I, I'm kind of curious, but the one thing I think they are getting right with relooking at or like different modalities interact with AI. I feel like when I read that, I was like, I really felt for the first time that we may be getting closer to like a post iPhone world. I think that a lot of people really hate their phones.
00;47;04;18 - 00;47;33;08
Aaron
At their core, they see the downsides kind of related to that, and it feels like that, like that thread is starting to build some steam. And so like maybe that specific device, Chris, like left you, you know, not not excited. But I think the idea of like the post iPhone world I do find like pretty interesting. And I hope somebody cracks that because I do feel like there's a lot of like negative externalities with phones that we kind of suffer through.
00;47;33;08 - 00;47;51;11
Aaron
But the moment that there's something that either addresses that or that's better in some way and like enables us to live in more of our like, natural state instead of like under the glow of an iPhone or a compatible device. I think that's a good thing. Like, that's like the self-correcting part of technology.
00;47;51;14 - 00;48;04;15
Chris
Yeah, it's funny because like, phones are like so installed and such a part of our daily lives, they're almost like capitalism in which you can't think of a world without them. But the iPhones are even 20 years old, right? Was in that like 2007.
00;48;04;18 - 00;48;22;19
Aaron
Yeah. The moment like something it's kind of like remember of like blackberries iPhone came out and like muted all the mobile devices. Right. That existed before it. I feel like if somebody cracks this form factor, everybody's just not going to want their phone anymore. Like it's just going to disappear. And I think everybody like, we'll feel better about it.
00;48;22;26 - 00;48;42;04
Pri
It's also insane to me that we like, are basically carrying around this, like tablet all day. Everyone just carries around, looks at it on the subway. Everyone's just carrying it around all over New York. Like it actually feels like the wrong, wrong form factor anyway. Like even somehow the Ray-Bans feel like a more appropriate form factor. Like more like organic and natural.
00;48;42;06 - 00;48;43;20
Aaron
Yeah, that doesn't feel right to me either.
00;48;43;20 - 00;48;51;28
Pri
Doesn't feel right to me either. But like, I just think having, like a mini computer device that you're holding with your hands feels off.
00;48;52;00 - 00;49;17;12
Chris
Yeah. Okay. But we have the hard materiality of what replaces it, you know? Like, I mean, it's absolutely insane that you carry around this amount of processing power and that it has a gorgeous display layer attached to it. Yeah. And so, like, you have those, you know, sort of like multiple problems to solve, right? You you've got the power problem, you've got the connectivity problem.
00;49;17;12 - 00;49;45;18
Chris
You got the processing problem. And then you have yeah, the interaction problem. And like all of those require solutions where it's hard not to see like the existing form factors, either glasses or phones or pucks or, you know, like something because we certainly can't wave our hand yet. And conjure up a hologram that we can just see at a field of depth, you know, eight, eight feet from us without having any form of device.
00;49;45;25 - 00;49;55;17
Pri
Yeah, I know I don't have like the right alternative, but I like sometimes look at people on their phones, like just around the city and like around the subway. And I'm just like, I feels just feels off.
00;49;55;19 - 00;50;03;11
Chris
Wait, wait till you have a child who's 12 years old and it just looks at their phone all the time. You will acutely feel this.
00;50;03;14 - 00;50;04;08
Pri
Yeah.
00;50;04;11 - 00;50;12;10
Chris
You're like you. You see your kid just like attached to that phone and you're like, I'm failing as a parent here like that. Yeah, it's like most visceral.
00;50;12;13 - 00;50;33;13
Aaron
Well, that's why I think, you know, like whatever. I felt that to Chris just because, you know, we I think we both kind of witness it. It's even this like notion that, you know, schools and there's plenty of problems at schools. But we've decided or increasingly decided to like lock up something like that is hyper aggressive. Like that means that there's something deeply wrong with with that form factor.
00;50;33;16 - 00;50;58;16
Aaron
Right. And the fact that, like, we're deciding as a society that we need to like take this thing out because it's, it's it's inhibiting basic things like learning is problematic. And so the moment that we're able to kind of like build something that's more natural, I just think that it will rapidly get adopted. And I can't tell if, like in that that device inquiry, we're really going to get something that's even like post laptop or computer along with it.
00;50;58;18 - 00;51;01;01
Aaron
It kind of feels like spatial computing.
00;51;01;03 - 00;51;02;07
Pri
I really want it.
00;51;02;09 - 00;51;17;29
Aaron
Yeah. I don't know if I want to be like in an AR environment that doesn't resonate with me. You know, that could be my vintage. I don't know, I just feel like it's kind of the same thing. It's like, I like the questioning of these, like baseline assumptions. And I feel like a lot of folks are now racing towards towards that.
00;51;17;29 - 00;51;30;13
Aaron
And we're going to see some interesting stuff that emerges, like we really are kind of moving like from this, like post, Apple, Microsoft World. It just it feels like every day we're marching a bit away from that, which is a good thing.
00;51;30;20 - 00;51;35;10
Pri
Hopefully that Apple Store monopoly, I think people will be fine with it.
00;51;35;13 - 00;51;52;13
Aaron
Yeah. I don't know. It's the monopoly. I just think it's like that. Just like there was a whole generation of very talented folks that built that, and they did a great job and did the best that they could. But like, there are downsides. People are acknowledging that. And then, you know, trying to build better stuff that gets people to where they want to be and hopefully or not.
00;51;52;13 - 00;51;58;08
Aaron
Just like these attention sucking systems that are not unbalanced, super healthy.
00;51;58;10 - 00;51;59;10
Pri
Totally agree.
00;51;59;13 - 00;52;06;14
Chris
Maybe we need satellites to just beam down holograms five feet away from you that you can understand.
00;52;06;17 - 00;52;18;08
Aaron
Let's do it. That'd be great. Yeah, I've I've actually increasingly, you know, I think I feel like the end state for AI is almost like electricity. It's like in the walls. I know it's a weird way to think about it, but it's, you.
00;52;18;14 - 00;52;19;25
Chris
Know, ubiquitous, right?
00;52;19;28 - 00;52;33;01
Aaron
Yeah. Like, you don't think about electricity, just kind of like there. So you're not like, you don't carry really electricity on you. Like obviously with the battery you kind of do. But it's really just kind of like everywhere. I feel like that's what the end state of AI is going to be.
00;52;33;04 - 00;53;04;07
Chris
No, I mean, that was the promise of IoT, right? And I think everyone realized they were just way too far out over their skis on, on IoT. But like the notion that how to do this in terms of like edge computing architectures, mesh networks, you know, just like very heavily networked, censored, monitored and interactive grid systems. Like we've had this vision before, it just clearly we weren't capable of doing it, nor was there an incentive to do it.
00;53;04;07 - 00;53;19;07
Chris
But given enough time, right, that the probably eventually materializes because the value prop and like at the core of the idea, it's a good idea. It just, you know, so is nuclear, you know, so it like cold fusion, right? We just it's a little far away.
00;53;19;09 - 00;53;36;07
Aaron
I do think a lot of AI stuff. It's almost is like kind of that late 70s, 80s vision just coming, like coming back in full force. Right? Like I don't think when people thought about computers, they thought about Google. Right. They really did kind of think about ChatGPT. I'm just thinking like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. You guys remember that scene?
00;53;36;07 - 00;53;53;29
Aaron
There was like some big mainframe there, like ask it a question and it comes out with something printed on paper, like, I think when people were thinking about computing, they really were thinking about AI, not like the web in the same way. So maybe maybe we get it all across. Maybe it just took a little bit longer to build it for whatever reason.
00;53;54;01 - 00;53;55;26
Chris
Yeah. Good day.
00;53;55;29 - 00;53;57;19
Pri
Hope I'm alive to see it.
00;53;57;21 - 00;53;58;22
Aaron
I think you will be very.
00;53;58;26 - 00;54;23;06
Pri
Welcome to Net Society. It's me, Aaron, Chris, Derek. Here today we give you cutting edge news on tech, AI, crypto and much more. Just a quick reminder that the thoughts are our own and not of our employer.
00;54;23;08 - 00;54;34;23
Pri
Who?