Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Career education is a vital pipeline to high demand jobs in the workforce. Students from all walks of life benefit from the opportunity to pursue their career education goals and find new employment opportunities. Join Dr. Jason Altmire, President and CEO of Career Education Colleges and Universities (CECU), as he discusses the issues and innovations affecting postsecondary career education. Twice monthly, he and his guests discuss politics, business, and current events impacting education and public policy.
Jason Altmire (00:04):
Gainful employment. There may not be two more controversial words in all of public policy as it relates to higher education. We get asked all the time about the rules and regulations related to gainful employment, the arguments that are made on how to measure outcomes related to student success after graduation, and the many flaws in the Biden administration's interpretation of those questions and the regulations that they put forth. And when we talk about these issues, we usually bring on education experts, people in higher education, or political people who bring a partisan perspective to it.
(00:46)
Today we're going to take a different approach. Today we're going to bring economic development and business leaders from one particular region of the country. We're going to bring them together, because they have an opinion on how the gainful employment regulations would affect in a very negative way, their region of the country.
(01:04)
This is Career Education Report. I'm Jason Altmire, and I want to welcome to the podcast Josh Vasquez. He is the Director of Workforce Development for the McAllen Texas Economic Development Corporation, and Felida Villarreal. She is president and CEO for the Valley Initiative for Development and Advancement, which serves Texas's Rio Grande Valley. Thank you both so much for being here.
Josh Vasquez (01:34):
Thank you.
Felida Villarreal (01:35):
Thank you.
Jason Altmire (01:36):
You wrote a very thoughtful opinion piece that was published a few months ago in Inside Higher Ed, related to the impact that the gainful employment regulations would have, specifically on the McAllen, Texas region. And I'll just very briefly explain that the gainful employment regulations as proposed by the Biden administration include outcomes metrics that measure student success based upon the amount of money that they're making after graduation, their wages. And it includes a high school earnings threshold where graduates are measured against people with only a high school degree, using the state median income. And that is the rub, as it relates to McAllen, Texas. And we will talk about that.
(02:27)
But I wanted to ask you both first, can you just talk a little bit about McAllen? Where is it in Texas? What are the unique circumstances that are of concern, related to this discussion?
Josh Vasquez (02:39):
Absolutely. So McAllen is located at the south-most tip of Texas. We are comprised of many smaller municipalities. People typically refer to us as the Rio Grande Valley, but we are in a very unique situation, along with a lot of other border towns, in the effects that our cost of living here is a less than other parts of the state, other parts of the nation. We actually boast one of the lowest cost of living thresholds here, for the state of Texas.
(03:08)
So we are located, like I said, strategically along the border, but the gainful employment change does affect our region quite significantly. We have a really fast-growing population. We really are experiencing a surge in the youthful population, meaning that, we do have a high concentration of individuals between the ages of 16 and 24. And those typically are those individuals that try to go into higher ed. So we are in a very unique situation here in McAllen.
Jason Altmire (03:43):
That's a good thing, that you have low cost of living, you're growing, people are moving to the area. It's a thriving region. But the problem is, as part of having a low cost of living, that means in comparison to other parts of a state like Texas, where you have Dallas and Houston and Austin, and some very high growth but more expensive areas. When you look at the median threshold, that negatively impacts McAllen.
(04:11)
And Felida, can you talk a little bit about, maybe the comparison? I saw in your op-ed, you referenced that for a medical assistant graduate in Austin, Texas, they make $7.00 per hour more than a similar graduate in McAllen, based upon nothing related to outcomes or the job that they're doing, solely because of the wage difference in region.
Felida Villarreal (04:35):
Right. And a lot of it has to do, again, back to our geographic location. And so, like Josh mentioned, we are a border region, and with that comes very unique and prominent challenges to our region. So we continue to be ranked as one of the MSAs with the highest rates of poverty in the nation. When we look at this type of data, the RGV as a whole almost ranks with a population of 30% living under poverty. And so, when you compare these entry level wages to a larger city, high growth cities such as Dallas or Austin, that's significantly unfair, because an entry level position here in the Rio Grande Valley still offers a path toward a living wage for a family.
(05:30)
But in addition to that, I think it's really important to acknowledge the sort of stepping stone that these pathways, and these certifications represent, for these individuals coming out of poverty. So yes, maybe as a CNA or PCT, you're not making as competitive as somewhere else in the region. However, even within the Rio Grande Valley, that represents a pathway that that individual can later continue on into their education, obtain stackable credentials, and maybe go on a nursing pathway. So I think it's really important to highlight the value that those certifications represent for our community.
Jason Altmire (06:13):
It would seem like, as two economic development leaders in that community, you would have a lot to work on and think about, and write about, and making public statements that are important to various constituencies within the region. What were the circumstances that led you to take an interest in the gainful employment regulations? Because we live with those in higher education, and we think about it every day, but I found it really interesting that it rose to the level of getting your interest in thinking about how it would impact a community like McAllen in a very negative way. How did it come to you taking such an interest in that issue?
Josh Vasquez (06:54):
In speaking with industry, and the needs that they have, we are in critical shortages for healthcare occupations. Not only here, locally, but throughout the state and the nation we've experienced these shortages. And COVID just exacerbated the need, and put a magnifying glass on those particular needs for our region. So all of these healthcare occupations rely on support occupations in healthcare to be able to add additional beds, add additional patients to hospitals, to assisted living facilities. So when we talk about the gainful employment, this is going to have a dramatic impact on those healthcare support occupations that are vital for our industry. With a growing population, as I mentioned before, we're going to need to have the quality care in place. And those healthcare support occupations play a vital role in that. Not only do they play a vital role within that industry, but we do have the indirect impact that they have. Individuals that go into these particular occupations eat at our local restaurants, shop at our local shops, so that has a indirect impact on all other industries as well.
Jason Altmire (08:02):
What I found most persuasive about the arguments that you made in your op-ed, we as an association, Career Education Colleges and Universities, we have 800 campuses across the country, many in Texas, who are offering a medical assistant degree or a similar healthcare credential. And you very persuasively make the case that there could be no difference in quality. These are graduates that are getting a good education, they're ready to work. Their skills are exactly what is being looked for in the healthcare, and in the communities that they represent. But every single one of the programs that offer medical assistant credentials in McAllen would fail the gainful employment test. And every one, almost every one, in many of those other areas that I mentioned, Houston, Texas, Dallas, would pass.
(08:58)
And again it's the same, for the most part, same credential. Often it's the same school that has branch campuses across different areas, offering the same education, and the students get the same opportunity after they graduate. Except for the fact that under gainful employment, the schools that are offering that credential in McAllen would fail, and therefore eventually be put literally out of business. What would be the impact to McAllen if the community lost access to those programs that educate such an important and growing part of your healthcare community?
Josh Vasquez (09:34):
That's going to be a dramatic impact for our McAllen MSA. Just to give you some numbers, for the healthcare support occupations within the next 10 years, we're needing to add approximately 10,595 jobs within the next 10 years for healthcare support occupations. So if we reduce the amount of individuals that we're able to get through these programs, and potentially lose access to federal funding to support them through these particular programs, we're going to be in a very drastic shortage for those healthcare professionals. So that's going to play a key impact in meeting the needs of our community, within healthcare.
Felida Villarreal (10:15):
In addition to that, I would say losing that type of funding for these types of programs, it's already a huge negative impact for our region, predominantly because of the challenges that we're facing. I mean, there's a huge population, and need, that is currently not able to access higher education. So now, even reducing that type of funding for these programs will just worsen the circumstances for so many individuals that, without that support, won't be able to pursue a higher education here in the Rio Grande Valley.
Jason Altmire (10:47):
And with regard to the sort of three strikes and you're out terminology, if you look at McAllen, you get hit three different ways. One is the wage disparity that we're talking about, related to the rest of the state of Texas, which calculation has nothing to do with quality. It's just a median measure that would harm McAllen. But also, with regard to healthcare, which is your primary concern because of the skills gap, and the growth in your community, and the need for those jobs. Most of the people who choose to become medical assistants, or go into healthcare careers, nursing and others, and then in McAllen in particular, it's critically important that often they're Latina, people who pursue those degrees. Hispanic women workers in the McAllen region, you point out in your opinion piece, they earn less than 40% of what white non-Hispanic men make. And nationally, that was the McAllen numbers, but nationally, Latinas lose an estimated 1.2 million in earnings over their forty-year working career, just because of the wage gap that uniquely affects them. So I would assume that played a role, Felida, in your interest in this issue.
Felida Villarreal (12:05):
Yeah, absolutely. I think, even looking at our program overall, we serve a high percentage of Latino students that are first-generation college, primarily women who are single parents. And so, this type of student population demographic faces so many challenges, and in efforts to help them excel in higher education, in career development, it really requires a variety of wraparound support services. And so, things like child care affordability, access to financial aid and other types of resources. With that collective support, they're not able to be successful in healthcare, and in many other high-demand career paths and occupations. I know we've mentioned healthcare, but currently there's many other industries and occupational fields where women continue to be underrepresented, and that are primarily male-dominated fields that do offer those higher benefits and higher wages. So industries like engineering, computer science, mathematics, information technology. And I think it's equally important to create those pathways, and help women and equip them with the necessary resources and tools to be able to break those barriers, and create a pipeline into those pathways for them.
Jason Altmire (13:33):
And you mentioned earlier, I believe you said, a 30% poverty rate?
Felida Villarreal (13:38):
Correct. It's nearly a third.
Jason Altmire (13:41):
So it's a growing region, but there's obviously disparity in people benefiting from that growth. And these are exactly the kind of programs, these healthcare, medical assistant programs, that would benefit that constituency. These schools are offering an opportunity, in many cases, that these students would not otherwise have. They have no other choice to move forward, if that is their chosen field of study. And I think it's important for folks to understand that you, as economic development professionals, again, took interest in this issue. Because you're seeing in the real world, on the ground, a negative impact already of people being dissuaded from pursuing those careers. Is that accurate?
Josh Vasquez (14:26):
Absolutely. Like I mentioned, we work closely with industry, so we have been working with industry to help them address these shortages. So we do see the need there, from an economic development perspective, the need and the continued need to address these issues moving forward. One of the other things that we try to focus on is, when we talk about the shortage in healthcare professionals, there's also a shortage in educators within healthcare. So this is going to also have an effect on educators, moving forward, within the healthcare industry.
Jason Altmire (15:00):
We, of course, have had a change in administration. We're going to have new President Trump coming in. And when you think about the gainful employment regulations, they were proposed by President Biden. I would assume, I won't speak for both of you, but you would be very interested in ensuring high quality related to education. You want the graduates to be well-educated and well-trained, but you also want them to have access to the federal funds that a low income population needs to pursue in education. So what goes into your thinking related to the flaws in gainful employment, but also ensuring accountability and quality among institutions of higher education?
Felida Villarreal (15:46):
Right. So I think one of the accountability factors that would be important to highlight is things like credentialing, and student outcomes. Are we successfully graduating these individuals in these career pathways? Are they gaining on the job training experience? Are they successfully completing stackable credentials? And not be so laser focused on entry wages, because again, there is a long-term impact and opportunity for these individuals to continue their education, to continue building their experience. And ultimately, if someone starts with a CNA certification, or a medical assistant certification, that doesn't prevent them from five years later becoming a registered nurse, or a physician assistant making six figures, years later.
Jason Altmire (16:38):
I recognize that thinking about higher education regulations is not your day job, so to speak, but you're very concerned about the impact, but not necessarily the minutiae of the policy and the regulatory process. But that said, I would be interested if you've put thought into how you would hope that the new administration approaches issues like gainful employment, and addressing the impact to communities like McAllen. The unique issues related to the community that you serve.
Josh Vasquez (17:11):
Definitely. I think putting additional thought into the disparities that communities like McAllen face in regards to those thresholds, not putting it under one umbrella, but analyzing each community. Each community has its pros and unique circumstances, as well. So not, again, putting it under the umbrella and analyzing each community. The need, like I said, is there. It's going to continue to grow, so we need to make sure that policy reflects that, and does not put up additional barriers for individuals that are wanting to go into these particular occupations.
(17:46)
We touched on flexible career paths. Moving forward, like I mentioned, a lot of these individuals do not use these entry-level occupations as a long-term career. It's merely a career path for them to lead into additional occupations, as well. So we work closely with industry, and industry has invested a lot of time as well, to make these opportunities available for individuals that come into entry-level occupations.
Jason Altmire (18:13):
I think it's important for people, who I'm sure are listening and thinking about, "Well, what are the politics involved here, in McAllen, Texas?" Because unfortunately, gainful employment has become tied up in political debate and partisanship, and people view the position of, or flagging problems with the Biden regulations in a partisan way. So for those who are unfamiliar with McAllen and the Rio Grande Valley, what are the political demographics, Josh, in the McAllen region?
Josh Vasquez (18:46):
So I think, right now, there's a split 50-50. With the previous administration, there was a lot of focus around this gainful employment rule. But right now, moving forward, we're really optimistic with the changes, not only here in the United States, but like I said since we are a border town, there's a lot of changes that affect other industries as well. We're really hopeful that by shedding to light these concerns, that policymakers will take this into consideration moving forward, and consider communities like McAllen.
Jason Altmire (19:16):
In closing, I would just ask you both, starting with Felida. If somebody wanted to learn more about the community of McAllen and the issues that we're talking about, or about the organizations that you lead, how would they do it?
Felida Villarreal (19:30):
Certainly. I would invite anyone who's listening to visit our website at vidacareers.org. Also, we invite anyone who's interested to pay us a visit to the Rio Grande Valley. I think our region is poised for continued growth and untold impact, and I'm very hopeful that our future continues to be leading in a positive way, with continued growth and employment opportunities and education opportunities, and expanding equitable access for higher education.
Josh Vasquez (20:04):
And I would also invite anybody who's interested to learn more about the McAllen Economic Development Corporation and our strategic approach to workforce development, to visit our website at mcallenedc.org. Also, I invite them to visit our community, and see for themselves all of the great things that we're doing here in McAllen.
Jason Altmire (20:23):
Our guests today have been Josh Vasquez. He's the Director of Workforce Development for the McAllen Economic Development Corporation, and Felida Villarreal. She is president and CEO for the Valley Initiative for Development and Advancement, which serves Texas's Rio Grande Valley. Thank you both so much for being with us.
Josh Vasquez (20:42):
Thank you.
Felida Villarreal (20:43):
Thank you.
Jason Altmire (20:50):
Thanks for joining me For this episode of the Career Education Report. Subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information, visit our website at career.org and follow us on Twitter, @CECUed. That's @-C-E-C-U-E-D.
(21:10)
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Voxtopica.