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Stories of veteran service and sacrifice straight from the people driving today’s most important veterans causes and veterans organizations around the world. The show shines a spotlight on their inspiring projects making a real difference for veterans and their families, and along the way we'll hear the stories that drive them to do their best every day as they work to support veterans and their memory.
00:00:06:01 - 00:00:30:00
Speaker 1
Welcome to Story Behind the Stone podcast, where we spotlight the people, changing the way the world remembers and landmarks cemeteries around the world. Founded just outside of Boston in 1831 and long before Central Park or other municipal parks existed, Mount Auburn Cemetery was the second most visited tourist destination in the United States, right behind Niagara Falls today.
00:00:30:01 - 00:01:01:11
Speaker 1
This 175 acre National Historic Landmark is home to over 100,000 permanent residents, a world class arboretum, and an active community space for arts, music, and ecological stewardship. Joining us today is Matthew Stephens, President and CEO of Mount Auburn Cemetery. Matthew brings a deep background in public horticulture, urban forestry, leading Mount Auburn's vision for history, green burials and urban ecology.
00:01:01:12 - 00:01:02:21
Speaker 1
Matthew, welcome to the show.
00:01:02:22 - 00:01:05:07
Speaker 2
Great to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
00:01:05:08 - 00:01:17:21
Speaker 1
Matthew, you've worked on different projects, you know, all the way from New York to San Francisco in tree programs and landmark parks. What drew you into the field of public horticulture and urban ecology?
00:01:17:22 - 00:01:35:20
Speaker 2
As I think an 8 or 9 year old boy started mowing the grass for, my grandfather grew up in central Illinois, so that happens weekly there and then after I would mow the grass, he would take me into his vegetable garden and sort of teach me about tomatoes, radishes or whatever. And we'd sort of harvest a little bit.
00:01:35:21 - 00:02:15:14
Speaker 2
And I think that gave me this appreciation for like how special plants are. And I continue to do that for a long time. And then in high school, I had the opportunity to take some horticulture classes which confirmed like, oh, this was really interesting to me, and I learned it really easily. So then I decided to study that in college and then had an internship, and that led to grad school, which then led to this incredible opportunity in New York to plant a million trees, and then opportunity in San Francisco to lead these stunning gardens, and now affords me the incredible opportunity to lead notable and cemetery.
00:02:15:14 - 00:02:30:01
Speaker 1
Beautiful tribute to your grandfather, who kind of sparked this and led to your whole career. Ultimately, in what you're doing, you find interest obviously in plants and such, and when you're doing that, what is like the passion for you?
00:02:30:02 - 00:03:04:05
Speaker 2
Most people who appreciate or like or enamored or become obsessed or passionate about plants, you know, there's something about the personality of plants that's a little bit different than the personality of people. Number one, plants don't talk back, right? Or scream or yell at you. They grow or they die based off of how they get treated. And each of them have this unique, distinct personality in the flower and the leaves and their growth habits that make them different from their sort of cousins or brothers or sisters.
00:03:04:05 - 00:03:27:09
Speaker 2
But they're all have this like, unique personality. And I think the more you learn about plants, the more you realize you have so much more to learn, because there's tens of thousands of different types of trees. Bring the bulbs, vines. There's ten lifetimes worth of learning about what the different types of plants are, how you grow them, what their flower looks like, who their pollinators are.
00:03:27:09 - 00:03:38:08
Speaker 2
And it's just it's like endless. And there's there's something about that, that endless learning and the unique personality that just I find really fascinating.
00:03:38:08 - 00:03:54:22
Speaker 1
Bringing that into Mount Auburn Cemetery and in the work you do, using the plants personalities to create an environment where people can come in and enjoy that. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that experience in your perspective with these plants, and how you brought that into the cemetery?
00:03:54:23 - 00:04:36:05
Speaker 2
So, Mount Auburn and the like 30 second history of Mount Auburn is that it's the first garden cemetery in the United States, was really founded with a novel idea to solve burials in urban areas. So 200 plus years ago, you know, the cemeteries of downtown Boston that were traditionally behind churches were starting to get filled up. And so 1 or 2 of our founders came together and said, well, maybe we could develop this space that serves this very practical purpose, but is also about nature, because we think nature is really important, and it's going to continue to be really important for people's well-being moving forward.
00:04:36:05 - 00:05:00:23
Speaker 2
And that was affirmed like 200 years ago. So those those super smart guys, our founders were well ahead of their time. Today. We know through peer reviewed research that nature is indeed very good for you. And so our roots, our DNA really revolve around, well, let's create this cemetery that will serve this core social purpose, but nature will be the star.
00:05:01:03 - 00:05:41:06
Speaker 2
And so the landscape of Mount Auburn has really been the key most important assets of this place for 195 years. And so over 195 years, there's been this ethos around the landscape is the most important asset, and we make these significant investments to curate, maintain, build, enhance as time changes. And so I think when I was hired, one of the reasons that the board found me an interesting candidate is because I have this deep experience in the horticultural world that's focused on plants and garden spaces.
00:05:41:06 - 00:06:00:10
Speaker 2
In all honesty, I did not really know too much about running a cemetery, and I remember joking with the board just in the first interview. To be clear, I don't really know too much about running a cemetery. I've run complex multidisciplinary organizations, but this would be a new topic and they sort of joke back, well, we've been a cemetery for, you know, then 190 years.
00:06:00:10 - 00:06:20:13
Speaker 2
So I think we've got most of that figured out. But when I got here, it's really interesting because, you know, being new to the cemetery business, but having run public landscapes and being a horticulturist by training, that's, you know, adding on that layer of being an active working cemetery makes it a little tricky. We are a public garden.
00:06:20:13 - 00:06:44:11
Speaker 2
We are botanic garden, we are an arboretum. But also being an active cemetery means that there's a bunch more layers to our work because of, you know, the fact that we've been selling space for almost 200 years. At any moments notice, people could be buried here or here or over there, regardless of what work we have planned or what basic operations are needed.
00:06:44:11 - 00:06:54:03
Speaker 2
And as you know, people who run cemeteries know that's just this unending operational challenge. That's part of these very special spaces.
00:06:54:05 - 00:07:08:02
Speaker 1
For any of our listeners. I really do recommend hopping on mountauburn.org, the website. Go through and take a look at some of the sites and the different areas you have, but then you realize that this is also a commemorative space.
00:07:08:02 - 00:07:35:20
Speaker 2
For people who have never been to Mount Auburn, I sort of ask, well, what do you what do you think of as like a normal cemetery? And I've asked like 50 people this question over the last few years now, and people start to describe to two things. One, as like the typical cemetery, one is there's a place here in near Washington DC called Arlington, which focuses on being an active cemetery for active service members here in the United States.
00:07:35:21 - 00:07:59:16
Speaker 2
Right. What the sort of specialness of that is the scale. Right? But it's set up in this very grid like fashion, with all the monuments being very similar in nice, neat little rows and, you know, the grass maintained sort of perfectly. So that's one version. The other version is like a Hollywood cemetery where the monuments are, like broken and there's tumbleweeds.
00:07:59:18 - 00:08:21:05
Speaker 2
And so it's been interesting for me to like, well, that's what people have in their head as what a cemetery looks like. And like, yeah, Mount Auburn doesn't look like that at all. You know, pretty much when you come to Mount Auburn, 95% of what you see, regardless of where you're at in the 175 acres, is nature or landscape.
00:08:21:05 - 00:09:02:18
Speaker 2
Certainly there are thousands and thousands of monuments, but we've worked very carefully over the years to curate this. So nature always really remains the sort of the star of the key asset, no matter where you're at in the landscape. And then there are now a series of sort of horticultural, a distinct, rich gardens that have been installed over the last 20 or 30 years that's added this really incredible, like human level scale, so that there are the monuments and then there are these, you know, gardens filled to the brim with perennials, shrubs, bulbs that bring a different level to the sort of cemetery experience, because in many cemeteries it's really just like the turf, the
00:09:02:18 - 00:09:04:13
Speaker 2
trees, the monuments, and that's it.
00:09:04:18 - 00:09:25:04
Speaker 1
I appreciate you bringing in like Arlington. It's a beautiful cemetery. We had the opportunity to be down there just a couple months ago and it's massive I can't imagine, you know, what goes in to that for ANC to to maintain all of that. But we also went to the Congressional Cemetery. Have you ever been to the Congressional Cemetery by chance?
00:09:25:05 - 00:09:37:13
Speaker 2
I have not been to congressional, but we just hosted them here last week and are like actually working to sort of pull together like a group of historic and garden cemeteries as like professionals to support one another.
00:09:37:13 - 00:10:06:15
Speaker 1
We went through there. I absolutely loved it. And part of the thing which was interesting was how they used the space, and they actually invited dogs, and you could get dog passes in there and, and how they engaged the community different. And, you know, even some of the actual tombstones or headstones were like picnic benches. And it kind of was a bit of an aha moment for me, recognizing that, yes, these are a place of commemoration for our deceased, but it's also really for the living.
00:10:06:15 - 00:10:12:07
Speaker 1
And it looks like your cemetery has embraced that. What's the importance of that? For a community.
00:10:12:10 - 00:10:35:22
Speaker 2
Meeting with people from the community, I would start to ask like, well, what do you know about Mount Auburn? Like, how would you describe us if you have been there? And I had a few people who said, like, yeah, Matthew, there is an emergency for this place. Mount Auburn Cemetery has become irrelevant to the community like you exist and you're this huge swath of land, but no one uses you.
00:10:35:22 - 00:11:14:23
Speaker 2
People just drive by. It's a place people only go when they have to. Like when someone is buried, not a place they want to be. And you know, not everyone said that, and I think there'd be people who actually disagree with that. But it's sort of catalyzed our thinking around how we're thinking about the organization now, where, yes, we want to continue to serve and serve families who need a place to bury human remains and continue to be an active cemetery, but also want to sort of activate ourselves as this community resource and like cultural landscape role.
00:11:14:23 - 00:11:44:09
Speaker 2
We are an active working cemetery, though, first and foremost. And so that is tricky. There's this harmony that we try to strike, and we've started to sort of try things to see see what works and what doesn't. And so because people have those two images of the cemetery in their heads and we're, we're not that we introduced programing or holding events here to try to like make us feel softer or more approachable.
00:11:44:09 - 00:12:14:07
Speaker 2
And so, you know, throughout the year. Now at Mount Auburn, we host lectures, we host poetry readings, we host movie nights. We even host a light and sound installation in the month of December. We host meditation or yoga sessions. You know, there's all of this programing that we've introduced to try to get people on site once so that they see we don't look like what they thought we were going to look like.
00:12:14:07 - 00:12:53:06
Speaker 2
What's been fascinating about that is that people's expectations of what a cemetery is, or what their experience will be, is like super low. I think people have really low expectations of visiting cemetery. And then what we realized when they come to Mount Auburn and they're like, wow, this is like such a special place, like through the tower that we have, like the above, the trees that, you know, you see 200 year old oak trees that you see these horticultural rich gardens, or you see, like thousands of distinct monuments that are unique pieces of art that are museum quality.
00:12:53:06 - 00:13:22:06
Speaker 2
And we don't match the image of what people had in their head as a cemetery. And so there's this really special activation that's starting to happen now. Like as we engage the community in this programing, they're asking for more. And so now we're thinking, well, how do we bring harmony between that activation as a public landscape and just continuing to run the cemetery business while providing like excellent service to the families we serve?
00:13:22:06 - 00:13:48:17
Speaker 2
And it's a little tricky because sometimes those two things come into conflicts, you know, separately, we've also started to make some significant capital investments that convey, hey, community, surrounding community, we actually want you here. And so there's really simple things we've done, like cut holes in our perimeter fence and installed like a pedestrian entrance that is literally like open arms to the community.
00:13:48:18 - 00:14:13:13
Speaker 2
Come in. We're just finishing a welcome center so that when you come to Mount Auburn, there'll be someone that says welcome. Yeah. Thank you for coming here. Are you here for, you know, a family member or to see incredible oak trees or just to, like, escape the craziness of the worlds. And, you know, there will be more investments that we continue to make over the coming years to sort of reinforce that sense of welcome.
00:14:13:13 - 00:14:37:09
Speaker 2
And what I'm hearing in my very unique role is that there are a lot of other cemeteries that are starting to think about this in the same way, too, that they're thinking about programing or capital investments as a way to convey we want the living to use this space like, yes, we do bury human remains. This is a place for the dead.
00:14:37:13 - 00:14:54:04
Speaker 2
You can't, like, play football or throw a frisbee around. But this can be a space where you know you find inspiration or where you find all. You just find a place to escape the craziness of the sort of modern day lives we all live.
00:14:54:05 - 00:15:30:15
Speaker 1
It really, I think, is important work because it changes the relationship we have with these spaces which are beautiful, which are part of the community. And if you think of every city, you know, across the United States and in other countries, they're all going to have these spaces. So when you think of cemetery, they're not spaces like yours maybe yet if they were going to go about doing something similar, what would be 1 or 2 things that you would recommend or say, hey, you know, this is one of the most important things to do if you want to change your cemetery into a community.
00:15:30:15 - 00:15:56:05
Speaker 2
Space depends on your community and it depends on who you are. We really talk a lot about like, well, what is what is our authentic self like, who is Mount Auburn and how do we want to convey that to our community and whatever we do, capital projects. You know, programing how the website looks, social media posts, like all of that we're trying to convey, this is this is who we are.
00:15:56:06 - 00:16:26:07
Speaker 2
And so I think the first piece of advice I would have is like, just figure out who your authentic self is for your place, and then stay laser focused around trying to share that with community. If you have like zero activation today, where do you start? It's tricky because most activation requires planning and staffing, right? And our sort of marketing resources to sort of share that with the community.
00:16:26:08 - 00:16:53:23
Speaker 2
So what many cemeteries do is like they start with like tours, right. Like, well, let's figure out sports players or politicians or figure out some threads to weave through the stories that already exists in your cemetery. Figure out what those threads are that you can start really simply and then package them, because that's sort of sharing your authentic self on the front of like capital investments.
00:16:54:00 - 00:17:25:11
Speaker 2
I mean, many cemeteries, Mount Auburn included, especially in the face of climate change, you should always be planting more trees, like every year or every few years, because what we know is we're losing trees at an increasing rate due to climate change. And part of what makes these places special is like the power of trees, right? And having canopy that's 20 years old, or canopy that's 200 years old makes these places really special.
00:17:25:11 - 00:17:51:08
Speaker 2
And because we all have time, you know, the intention for cemeteries is that we will be there indefinitely into the future. Planting a tree today is really powerful for tomorrow. And then I think maybe the third piece is sort of from the playbook here is really think about how you're viewed from the outside in. Maybe the gates, you could stop referring to them as gates and refer to them as entrances.
00:17:51:13 - 00:18:09:17
Speaker 2
Maybe you can add new entrances. Maybe there's barbed wire along the top of the fence. Right? You know, like there are all of these signs that convey keep out. And I think be really mindful about the signs that you put out there that say, you know, come in.
00:18:09:18 - 00:18:28:09
Speaker 1
Think again. That relationship to these places is changing. And I think it's changing for a variety of different reasons. Organizations like yourself that are maybe dropping the stereotype that a cemetery is not a big spooky place, it's it place up reflection. It's a place of beauty.
00:18:28:09 - 00:19:16:05
Speaker 2
I think you're totally right. I think there is a movement that is that has already begun, where it's not just Mount Auburn, there's peer cemeteries out there who are working to reimagine what these spaces can and will be into the future. The world just keeps moving quicker and faster and becomes more unpredictable with each week that passes by. And so I think having these public spaces where people can escape to reflects or or feel inspiration or just like be alone with their thoughts or take like a quiet walk with friends, is becoming increasingly more valued by a world that just keeps moving faster and faster.
00:19:16:05 - 00:19:26:07
Speaker 1
When you look at your space, in particular, what has been some of your more successful activities, programs or events you're throwing? What sticks out for you?
00:19:26:08 - 00:20:11:11
Speaker 2
One of our most successful activities over the last few years has been this light and sound and artistic installation that happens in the month of December. It's called Winter solstice. It has scaled over the years, but now brings, you know, 15 to 20,000 people during, you know, ten ish select evenings during a time when we would normally just like, be dark and closed, you know, so it happens like after we close, you know, in December in Boston, you know, gets dark at like 4 or 430 and we sort of activate the landscape, not with a light show, but with artistic installations that are intended to inspire people to reflect during the end of the year,
00:20:11:11 - 00:20:44:19
Speaker 2
around the winter solstice, when many people just find, you know, there is this natural rhythm with the darkest day of the year. But also with the holidays coming, most people take time in December to reflect, and what we have seen from that is really transformational. Thousands upon thousands of new community members who have never been to Mount Auburn before showing up for Winter solstice, and now out of being diligence sort of managers for the work we do.
00:20:44:23 - 00:21:19:05
Speaker 2
We're now getting to know some of those people and asking them to be part of our story and help support other work, other initiatives that continue to make even more relevant. And so that has welcomed in literally thousands of new people to the organization, and is now starting to generate millions of new dollars for us to invest back into this very special landscape, to make the challenge of maintaining this place forever a little less hard.
00:21:19:06 - 00:21:38:00
Speaker 1
You can see how the efforts build upon themselves. Like you're saying, you're being able to generate more income to help even build it up more. And that's beautiful just to see that grow. Say you're a visitor coming to your space for the first time. What are a few highlights or like must sees that you would be recommending?
00:21:38:01 - 00:22:01:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, we have a tower at the highest part of the sites that is stories tall, that gets you above the tree canopy and gives you the best view of the Boston region anywhere around. For people who are scared of heights, you know, even though at the top of the hill that it's sort of perched, you know, you still get really the best view of the Boston region around.
00:22:01:19 - 00:22:27:12
Speaker 2
I think because our, our landscape is important to the visits and there are dozens of hundred year old or 200 year old trees. And part of the experience of Mount Auburn is getting what we call good lost. So, you know, people should just, like, find a path that looks appealing to them and head down and see where that takes them.
00:22:27:12 - 00:22:54:16
Speaker 2
And, you know, part of this very special place is like when people get good lost, like they forget about their phone, they forget about traffic. They get consumed by appreciating the butterfly that's fluttering around. But by them, they appreciate the way, like the sun is hitting a monument in a particular way, or they appreciate just like the sounds that's the wind is making blowing through oak tree leaves.
00:22:54:16 - 00:23:17:07
Speaker 2
And that sort of good lost is really what makes this place sort of special. And then as part of getting good loss, you'd probably stop to appreciate incredible gardens that are sort of really scattered throughout the full landscape. Of the hundreds of monuments that you could sit at and stare and appreciate the the artistry that went into carving.
00:23:17:07 - 00:23:25:12
Speaker 2
For in the same way that you visit and appreciate a picture in a museum hanging on the wall.
00:23:25:12 - 00:23:32:12
Speaker 1
Where are you moving into the future? Five years, ten years down the road? Where do you see Mount Auburn being?
00:23:32:13 - 00:24:20:16
Speaker 2
We are just at the end of formalizing a vision plan for Mount Auburn, and we'll be releasing to the public in the fall of 2026. That answers that exact question. We have identified 25 key projects to the organization's future that are significant capital investments. Those range from investing in core infrastructure, like making sure that the irrigation works for the next 200 years, or making sure that we have a tree canopy for the next 200 years, or making sure we can manage the stormwater that's coming from these more significant storms, to really thinking more carefully about our thresholds.
00:24:20:16 - 00:24:53:13
Speaker 2
You know, we're 175 acres, but really thinking carefully about how our community sees us and making investments in that to make us as opening and welcoming as possible. There'll be new garden spaces. And of course, like most significant capital campaigns, there will be significant investments into facilities to help enable day to day operations, along with providing excellence or even elevated service to the families we serve at its roots, though, you know, we don't want to lose that authentic self.
00:24:53:13 - 00:25:27:14
Speaker 2
And so we've been as part of this vision, like, yes, there will be these significant investments made, but we don't want to lose that good lost. And so part of this balance that will be striving with is that you like in five years and ten years, that you can still see like a toad, hop along the path, or you can still see a blue heron sort of take off from one of the water bodies, or that you could just sit on a bench and like, be there with your thoughts.
00:25:27:14 - 00:25:40:02
Speaker 2
And, and so that authentic self is, is really important. And we'll be working very carefully to make sure that that is either preserved or even further enhanced. Weaving forward.
00:25:40:03 - 00:25:49:07
Speaker 1
Is there any stories that you've come across of individuals in your cemetery that just, you know, pop into your mind or have just stuck with you?
00:25:49:07 - 00:26:24:08
Speaker 2
I think all of our permanent residents have an interesting story to share. And, you know, there are people who have made significant contributions to the world, like world famous poets, scientists or politicians. But a lot of the lot of the people who are buried here at Mount Auburn are just like normal people. And and I think one thing that we've started to think about and we'll continue is like, well, how do we share those stories of just like the normal people, right?
00:26:24:09 - 00:26:44:16
Speaker 2
And so that our community finds a way to relate to just like those normal people. Right. Because that's mostly like who who fills the world. Right? And and there's nothing wrong with being just a normal person. Right. And so I think that is still a challenge that we have yet to, to overcome.
00:26:44:16 - 00:26:50:14
Speaker 1
I find as through those stories that people often see themselves in, able to connect more deeply.
00:26:50:14 - 00:27:25:03
Speaker 2
If you can figure out how to master that, you'd lead to this lifetime of engagement for people who are just enamored by the different personalities of the actual personalities that are interred at your cemetery. Right. And, you know, I think that's a really interesting space. Many people are trying to figure out, well, how do we do this in a thoughtful, respectful reverence way that that really captures that individual personality and to do it on, on scale as a, as a super complicated process.
00:27:25:04 - 00:27:38:13
Speaker 2
And I'm sure there's like some technology solution that's starting to sort of be able to intersect. But that really, over time gives even greater depth to these very special spaces.
00:27:38:13 - 00:27:54:16
Speaker 1
Like how you said, like the personality of your plants and the personalities of these individuals. And you're a steward of both, and you can see how you're thinking about that. So as we wrap up here, is there anything else you would like to highlight? Maybe some upcoming events?
00:27:54:18 - 00:28:19:22
Speaker 2
Two things that come to mind are just tied to the calendar. We're in the midst of summer. Summer will soon fade to fall. Of course, there is no place like Mount Auburn in the fall. We are lucky to have really 200 plus sugar maples that in the middle of October you can come here. It is stunning, like absolutely stunning.
00:28:19:22 - 00:28:51:02
Speaker 2
The landscape like sparked alive with these vibrant oranges, reds, yellows of fall color and then separately in the month of December. We are really excited to share Winter solstice with our community and what we've actually started to see. You know, over the last year or two where we've started to have people from California or Illinois or Texas or North Carolina, it actually, we are starting to get a beyond regional visitation.
00:28:51:02 - 00:29:10:12
Speaker 2
And our hearing from people like, oh, I visited Boston in December just to visit solstice. So that suggests we've sort of really captured this sort of our authentic self and figured out a way to share it with our community, but keep an eye out for fall. Or if you have time in December, please make a stop by itself.
00:29:10:13 - 00:29:14:06
Speaker 1
If people wanted to get involved or stay connected, where should they go.
00:29:14:07 - 00:29:38:13
Speaker 2
You can go to the website mountauburn.org or certainly you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, under Mount Auburn Cemetery, where we post regularly. If you want to sort of see upcoming events or the latest news, you can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at the website. We send just a monthly newsletter. It doesn't become daily or weekly, just a monthly.
00:29:38:13 - 00:29:55:02
Speaker 1
Matthew Stephens, President and CEO of Mount Auburn Cemetery, thank you so much for joining us and for all of your visionary leadership and preserving this extraordinary cemetery and the plants and creating that space for people to come in and joy, great.
00:29:55:02 - 00:30:01:15
Speaker 2
Thank you.
00:30:01:17 - 00:30:14:17
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in. Story Behind the Stone is available on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on the Wreaths Across America Radio Network on iHeartRadio. Audacity and to tune in, just search for wreath.
00:30:14:19 - 00:30:15:20
Speaker 1
Thank you for tuning in.