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Today, we dive deep into the trenches of motherhood with special guests Emily Baldoni and Satya Twena, the dynamic duo behind the brand We Are Amma [www.weareamma.com [http://www.weareamma.com/]]. These powerhouse women get real about the challenges of parenting in a society that often leaves mothers feeling unseen, undervalued, and utterly exhausted.
From the isolating postpartum period to the daily grind of juggling work and family life, Emily and Satya share their personal stories of struggle and triumph. They discuss the importance of building a support system, even if it means creating your own "village" from scratch.
But let's be real: sometimes, in the midst of the chaos, a simple text back from a friend can make all the difference. Jess and Scott share their own experiences navigating the unequal spotlight of parenting in the public eye.
Together, they tackle the tough questions: How do we break free from the suffocating expectations of modern motherhood? What does it mean to prioritize self-care when you're knee-deep in diapers and sleep deprivation? And why is it so hard to ask for help?
This episode is a rallying cry for parents everywhere who are tired of feeling like they have to do it all alone. It's a reminder that we're all in this together, even when it feels like we're worlds apart. There's SO MUCH goodness in this episode! Can't wait for you to dive in!
Hear more from Emily [https://www.instagram.com/emilybaldoni/] and Satya [https://www.instagram.com/satyatwena/] on Instagram, and check out We Are Amma [https://weareamma.com/] , a team of mamas dedicated to empowering and nurturing mamas at every stage.
Get 10% OFF parenting courses and kids' printable activities at Nurtured First [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/] using the code ROBOTUNICORN.
Learn more about the Solving Bedtime Battles course here [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/solving-bedtime-battles/].
Credits:
Editing by The Pod Cabin [https://thepodcabin.com/]
Artwork by Wallflower Studio [https://www.wallflowerstudio.co/]
Production by Nurtured First [https://nurturedfirst.com/]
Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn.
We are so glad that you are here.
As always, let's start the show with a question from Scott.
Here's a question for you, Jess.
How do you think becoming a parent has made you better?
Better person, better human in society.
How has becoming a parent made you better?
in so many ways has becoming apparent made me better.
And that's not to say the old version of me was not good or bad.
But I think becoming a parent the number one thing is it's given me so much more empathy and compassion on
everybody.
Now that I have my own kids and I see the vulnerability of them and I see how innocent they are and how they just come out just needing us.
Like no one needs you more than a baby who's literally helpless and has nothing to offer the world except for needing their parent.
I think I now see everybody, even adults, whoever is having a hard time
I can see them from the eyes of once they were that little.
Yeah, you've said that to me often.
Yeah.
I think it gives me this really deep sense of empathy for anyone who is in my life
And maybe sometimes to a fault where I'm like so empathetic that it's hard for me to set my own boundaries because I can see everyone through this lens of once they were little and for so many adults even.
once they were little and they were hurt when they were little and and I could see how being little and innocent and maybe hurt can shape the way that they're acting now.
And so I yeah, I think becoming a parent has just given me a lot more empathy and compassion.
and makes me see every person kind of in a different light.
I mean I find that interesting that you say empathy because I feel like before you were pretty empathetic to begin with.
The roots of empathy were there.
I think I was definitely empathetic
if I think about myself even as a therapist before having kids.
Like of course I've always been an empathetic person.
That's what got me into the job of a therapist.
But I think something that changed in me, even in my work as like
uh clinician after having kids was even living through that experience myself.
So going through postpartum anxiety, going through four months of bed rest with our oldest, going through all of that
when I came back to work after I had such a different view of what parents have to deal with and how hard it can be to be a parent that I do think that I had a lot more empathy for the parents I was supporting
that I just wasn't able to truly understand before having a kid.
That's true.
I mean that goes back to the what I was explaining to you before about the conversation I had with my buddy.
He was asking questions like what is it like having a baby
What are the things I should know?
Mm.
And I mean, on our bike rides I would explain a few things.
And one of them being, like you're gonna be tired probably.
It's pretty likely your baby is not gonna sleep through the night very quickly or right away.
And afterwards, after he had his son, he told me.
He's like, yeah.
It's hard to truly understand
what you were talking about until I actually had my son.
Yeah, exactly.
Like you can tell someone, oh, you'll be tired when you have a baby, but until you've been
in the trenches of sleep deprivation when you're like almost falling asleep and then your baby cries and you're woken up, like it's really hard to understand how difficult that is.
Now I mean that doesn't mean you can't be empathetic towards people's situations without fully understanding it because you're never going to fully understand it.
But I can see for you, especially what you went through after we had our first our oldest daughter
How that would have changed.
I think I was a good clinician before, but I think it made me even better because I had this understanding and this
ability to empathize with the parents that I was working with.
I'm curious for you, why do you think or do you think parenting made you a better person?
I know what I think, but and if so, how do you think it made you a better person?
I mean yeah, I think I think it has.
To your point about being more empathetic, I think that's definitely something that like I've always liked kids.
I just find the way they view the world so interesting.
Everything is new to them.
Like even after having our oldest daughter, she's
three and asking how a light switch works and why it turns on the light in the room.
Yeah.
It's actually a pretty complex thing to fully explain to a child and it makes you try and break down these things that you take for granted in the world
And like truly try and understand, okay, what does what can this small person understand and how can I explain it in their terms and how can I explain it based on what they know of their world.
On Nurtur First we call that stage the curious little scientist.
stage and I feel like that's your favorite stage because you love explaining these things to the kids.
I feel like she's still in that stage.
Oh yeah.
I mean I think all three of them are still in that stage.
They have so many questions.
And that's my favorite part.
I love the why does this work
And why does that work?
I know maybe some parents find that annoying, but I'm always interested in learning how things work or relearning.
I mean with our oldest being in grade one.
She's learning all these things and I actually enjoy relearning a lot of these things alongside with her and challenging her and getting her to challenge her teachers a little bit on is that the right is that actually true?
Yeah, I know.
I I love watching you with them.
Another question I wanted to ask you before we dive into this episode, because this episode has so much goodness on it.
One of the things that Emily and Satya were talking about a lot in the episode was cycle breaking.
And I know that that was a big part of your journey too.
And we talk in the episode about healing and working through that.
Is there anything that you would say, like when you are on your cycle breaking journey, especially in those early days
that really helped you with healing, that kind of helped shape you to be the parent that you are now?
That's a good question.
I mean therapy, obviously.
Obviously.
I might be biased being married to a therapist, but I would say that definitely helped, especially finding the right
therapist to help with that.
I mean, I wouldn't say I'm perfect.
So that's the thing.
Cycle breaking doesn't mean that I am
Perfect.
But I'm definitely I think I'm making a lasting impact in the way our girls are being raised.
I think something that really, really helped you was feeling like you could
name what you're going through to some safe people in your life.
And I feel like that also is talked about in the episode, but feeling like you can actually share
what your journey was.
Like I remember you had never even told a lot of our close friends when we first had our oldest about anything of the things that you had been through.
And then I remember once you're like, I feel like I gotta tell.
And it was one of our close friends and you went out for coffee with him.
Yeah, I told Dan.
You told Dan.
And you went out for coffee with Dan and you told him about your childhood.
And that was the first time that I think you even opened that door with a friend of ours
Yeah, well well, pretty much anyone outside of you.
Yeah, like only I knew, and you had held that so close to yourself.
And now I think about you like everybody
knows and our friends and you're very open about what you've been through and your healing journey and cycle breaking and all of this.
But making that first step to tell a friend and feel safe enough to do that was really hard.
Yeah, it's true.
I think honestly it's because of the kids that like now I'm trying to protect them from the things that were hurting me, the people that were hurting me as a child.
So now I'm it's a whole lot more than just me protecting myself.
And feeling like oh nobody really cares.
He's a six foot three, two hundred and five pound man that you're
You're probably not gonna look at me and think I'm gonna mess with this person or this person's in danger from someone who's smaller than him.
But now I have these three
Innocent little girls that I'm trying to protect as well.
So I think that's probably why it opened up and now why I'm so open about it.
If anyone asks, like I'm I'm very willing to explain my story.
But it probably took yeah, it took until we had our oldest that I actually started making the baby steps to opening up about my experiences.
Yeah, exactly.
And so if we're going back to your original question, how has parenting made you a better person?
I think
because we had our own daughter and you're looking at her and you're like, I need to protect this this child at all costs.
In doing that in protecting your daughter, you actually started protecting yourself too
And kind of healing some of those old wounds that that you had in the process.
So you've been protecting our girls and protecting yourself, I think, in the process of understanding how your childhood impacted you and stuff like that
So I think it's been really cool to witness.
And in this episode, we talk a lot about cycle breaking.
And I think it's really important to share these stories because a lot of parents are probably like who you were.
before you told Dan, before you opened up and and told someone what you were going through.
This conversation with Emily and Sasia was incredible.
I felt so seen by them, heard
I know if you're a postpartum mom or if you've ever struggled with your mental health postpartum, you're gonna love this episode and just really feel like you're not alone in your journey.
If you don't already know who these incredible women are, Emily Baldone is an actress and she's an entrepreneur from Sweden.
She's lived in the US since 2000.
She's had a long career as an actress in both TV and film and is the co-founder of We Are AMA, a popular lifestyle brand for mothers, that we're going to talk about in the episode today.
She lives in California with her husband Justin Baldoni and their kids Maya and Maxwell.
Satya Twenna grew up in Southern California and graduated from Wesley College in 2005.
Satya then headed to New York City and thrived as a fashion designer and entrepreneur since 2008.
Emily and Satya will tell us in the episode about how they met and how they ended up founding the company We Are Ama.
But what I love so much about them is their mission.
Is very aligned with our mission.
Their mission is to nurture mamas and they believe that a nurtured mama will change the world.
I cannot wait for you to hear our conversation today.
I love to hear a story of a friendship.
So I would love to hear your story of how you guys came to be.
It's a sweet thing.
It's such a really sweet story.
Yeah.
You said
You know, I always joke that Emily's my work wife.
But we met, gosh, almost seven years ago.
It was at a wedding.
And funny enough, I was pregnant at the time.
Emily had one kid.
And I was experiencing morning sickness and I lived in New York City.
And my assistant was like, you need to watch the show Jane the Virgin while you're at home and feeling sick.
So I started watching the show.
And of course, Rafael Solano was just so cute
And I must have mentioned the show to my husband.
He's like, oh my God, I'm literally going to a bachelor party with that guy next week.
And I I thought he was joking.
And so a week later, he's at a bachelor party with Justin Baldoni and
The two of them hit it off and then I see them at the wedding, what, like two months later, and we meet briefly.
It wasn't like it was sparks and we're like, we're gonna make a business together.
Over home births, because I had just had one and you were planning for one, so we just talked a lot about birth and pregnancy and specifically home births and totally hit it off there.
And then about
Three months later I decided to move to California and have my baby in California, which was not expected, and had my daughter and I was going th
through, it was not a graceful or easy postpartum.
It was actually a real kick in the it was yeah, a kick to the womb.
It was really challenging for me.
And Justin and Emily, we hadn't seen each other, we hadn't really spoken, and then then they all of a sudden showed up and said, We have this product.
Would you guys be interested in doing something?
And
I was an entrepreneur in New York City and was in the fashion industry, had run a factory, and had kind of put that on hold because I was having a baby and I didn't know what to expect.
And I was kind of also open to receiving an idea of something that could be different because the way that I was running my life before was
very tedious.
It was just really p frenetic and frantic and it just always felt like I had to do more to have more success.
And I was kind of over living that type of lifestyle, especially with a new baby.
And because breastfeeding was hard and nursing in public was actually really challenging for me.
They just happened to have a nursing cover, so wild, and they were like, Hey, we have this idea.
Justin actually called us.
He was like, Hey, can you FaceTime?
We're like, sure.
And he had this idea and he was like, and I think Emily and you, you guys could do this with my mom.
And I was like, three months before, I would have been like, no, I'm a free the nipple boobs out type of woman.
Like I, you know, I think breastfeeding is beautiful and everybody should do it naturally.
And that was my position.
And then
having the experiences that I had with my daughter and the challenging times of nursing or going to my car to nurse, all of a sudden it was just like this product is needed and necessary.
And I saw the genius in the design that Justin's mother Sharon had
created which was this knit breathable fabric in the case.
Which by the way she created in 1984 after having Justin, my husband had breast pads back then.
Not shoulder breast pads.
Now that's an idea.
Yeah, exactly.
Shoulder pads.
It was the mid-80s.
But she had loved it, wearing it at restaurants and in business meetings and so on.
And then she brought that to me when I had our first child
And then I passed it on to Satya.
And it was literally love at first touch.
I just fell in love with the product.
And then Emily and I literally just slowly became friends.
It was like an arranged marriage.
Our husbands brought us together over this product and we just fell in love.
And I think it's
It's now, I mean, you know, they used to live in LA, I was in New York, I moved to Southern California to town called Ohio, then they moved here two years ago.
And now it's just like this real fa and Justin's parents live in the town as well and his sister and my family now lives in this town.
And so it's literally just become this really happy family and my mom's good friends with Justin's parents.
Heron it's so sweet.
And so we really it's like we have like two families that are one big family and
It's not just because of the company, it's also because I think our values are very much aligned.
Our kids go to the same school and they're going to be able to do that.
So we're really intertwined.
That's so special to have that kind of friendship and that it didn't even start out as friendship.
I didn't realize that it started out as a business relationship and it developed into a fr a friendship over time.
Oh yeah.
How many children?
I think Satya, you have three children.
I do, yes.
What are their ages now?
Six, four, and almost one, like in a week and a half, which is crazy.
So crazy.
Our kids are very similar ages.
I have a six-year-old, a three and a half year old.
And a one and a half year old as well.
Oh my gosh.
I have two.
I have an eight-year-old and almost six year old.
It's so sweet.
I love the six-year-old stage.
I feel like they
are starting to ask so many good questions and insights about the world and I don't know about the two of you but so many times when I look at my six year old I just wonder how did you get so big?
How are you?
It happens so fast.
Yeah, we talk about that actually a lot personally.
Yeah it's like this bittersweetness of like you want them.
Like we're so lucky, right, to have children that are growing and
Or having these healthy, happy childhoods.
And we also want to pause time or slow it down.
It's amazing and right.
It's the what?
It's the contraction and expansion of motherhood.
Of course.
It's beautiful and it's challenging.
We often say that it's in parenthood that you experience nostalgia for the present moment for the first time.
Because you're you're in the moment and yet your mind is like, oh my goodness, we're not gonna be here.
Tomorrow he's gonna be 15, 21.
And we just feel it.
We're so aware of it in the moment
Yeah, I remember Scott a few was this maybe a month or two ago we just had this moment and we saw our six year old.
She's just sitting there, she's just reading a book
And she has learned how to read and both of us just start tearing.
We're feeling so emotional.
And it's that nostalgia for the present moment.
Even Scott, I think was it.
I was yeah.
I was tearing up.
And I'm not one that tears up that often, but
That was something that was like there's something so powerful about seeing your child who you've taken from this baby stage, infant stage, all
They're kind of becoming a little more independent and they can do things on their own.
They can read a book on their own that I've been doing for the past six years.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
It's wild.
And when they for me right now, especially with my six-year-old, I'm watching her and I'm like, gosh, she is everything I ever hoped for in a child.
Even each of them, they're just so, they're just so themselves
And it's so beautiful.
I wonder when you're watching your kids grow up, do you see one of your children or maybe multiple of your children have pieces of you in them?
Oh yeah.
I know for us we see that and and that's a whole other journey of seeing who they are and you both are such loving and in tune and conscious parents and
and raising them and trying to pull out those pieces.
Is that ever difficult or interesting or triggering to watch those pieces of yourselves and your own kids?
I mean I I feel like I see both
parts of me that I'm really proud of that I know are really working for me.
So I'm excited for them to have, you know, learn that from me.
But then of course I also see things that
Whew, I become painfully aware that I just passed on some of my worry, some of my anxiety, really trying to do the best that I can, but that's just the truth that I've lived in in seasons of my life.
And they are little sponges.
So that's a great opportunity for me to then somehow lovingly correct that by, of course, and I know we're gonna talk more about this, but digging deeper into me.
And learning about why that is a part of me and where I got it from.
But that can hurt.
Seeing that especially in my daughter, because I think that she's taken on some of that specifically worry and anxiety about things and said, but but what if, but what if that happens?
What if this
And it's actually getting better and better, probably because I'm doing so much work on myself.
But that's the kind of stuff that just stops me in my tracks and is like a loud bell ringing going off and saying, Okay.
Like a huge mirror.
It's time, it's a massive mirror.
Time to take a step back and kind of begin pruning a little bit.
Yeah.
And giving her the tools that I'm learning today.
I get to learn them in real time and then pass them on to her tomorrow, which is
A wild process.
It's so exciting.
I love that.
A process is a good word.
I I can relate.
I think my six-year-old, she struggles with a lot of worries as well.
when I think about myself as a child, a worried child.
And I love my parents.
I think they're incredible, but they didn't have the tools back then that we have now to support a worried child.
And so I I see the same thing
When she'll come to me with her worries or her concerns, and then I'm like, whoa, I would have felt that same way, but I wouldn't have verbalized it.
Wow, that's so powerful that she can come to me and share these worries.
But it is.
It it it's heart and it's healing.
It's all at the same time.
Now both of you, as we've mentioned, are very conscious, present parents.
Would you say that you grew up in a similar way to how you're raising your kids, or is this different and new and something that you're kind of learning for the first time alongside your kids?
I I'll go first.
Okay.
It's definitely how I grew up.
I feel very grateful.
My parents were, you know, I kind of sometimes think that I'm living the same life as my parents.
Just
30 plus years in advance, or almost forty forty years.
Oh my god, I'm 40.
40 years in you know, in the future where my parents were into Buddhism meditation and yoga in their twenties.
And they pass that on to me and you know, my dad my dad from when I was like two or three years old would have these tenets that he would talk to us about, like thoughts create things.
I would say the only thing that I I think, and again, yeah, I know we all love our families and our parents, the and my mom's probably gonna listen to the side mom, is that you know I don't think they had the tools
that you are teaching and showing up on Instagram and spreading those messages, which are so good.
My parents, I think, instilled a little bit more fear and stranger danger.
than saying this is strange behavior, right?
And that was one of the posts that you posted that really resonated with me.
But ultimately I think, you know, my parents lived in Malibu in like the mountains in a remote place.
And I look around, I'm like
I was a New York City woman and I am living in a on a remote hill where there's rattlesnakes and bears and
Tarantulas.
Tarantulas?
And my dad, I remember saying when my mom was pregnant, I think with me or my brother, she almost stepped on a tarantula.
And I used to laugh at that because it was like, tarantulas?
And so, yes, I feel like there's a very parallel parental feeling and I think my husband and I have m much more, many more skills
to help support our children in more communicative language that helps move them through challenges.
I do remember that if I had big emotions or big feelings, that it would just be like, well, be a big girl, right?
And
They didn't have those tools and they, you know, they even even when they were doing nonviolent communication, there was still a lack, I think, of knowledge with
I think a lot of the conscious parenting information that you are sharing.
And I'm hoping, you know, my kids will probably say this in 30 years from now on
you know, the next version of podcasting, right?
Well my parents loved us and they didn't have the tools that we had, you know.
But yes, my childhood was pretty much like Jeffrey and I are raising our kids
With upgrades.
I love that.
Me, on the other hand, I am a cycle breaker
I learned so many beautiful things from my parents and they were very tool less.
Living very much in a reality where there was a lot of generational trauma and just a repetition of wounds and traumas, you know, that has traveled through generations in my family.
And I was very
very loved and I continue to be so loved, but there was a limit to how that love could be expressed because of their own limitations.
Because of all that was unhealed within them
that they just truly did not have the tools.
And me growing up in this era, in this generation, I've had tools and I was a born
seeker.
I am so curious when it comes to life.
I'm not gonna leave this life until I have explored every
crevice and corner and depth and height of myself.
I want to truly know myself before I move on.
And that journey has taken me on, I mean, it's just an adventure of tools
And I've been I've had the privilege and the blessing of building my own toolbox.
And the prayer is of course that my kids are gonna have a
real badass toolbox.
Yeah.
Much better than mine.
But I know that I am able to give them so much that was not given to me.
Not because my parents did not want to give me that, simply because they they could not.
They didn't know how to.
So I feel like my chapter of parenting is definitely an upgrade from what they could do in the 80s and 90s
For sure.
You know, one thing I wanted to add is that Emily literally does the work.
And I think that that's something that when I think about
limitations in parenting is like you have to do the work.
Emily shows up in whether it's business or in family and you do the work, you go deep and you're like
It's like you're not afraid to be burned, which I love.
Thank you for seeing me that way.
Yeah.
And also she's from Sweden.
You didn't mention that.
You're Swedish.
I'm Swedish.
She's Swedish.
So there's a whole
cultural thing too.
Oh huge, huge.
So that's another thing.
That's actually a really good point.
The fact that I moved here to the States when I was 20, I'm 39 now, so I'm close to having
half my life in Sweden and half my life here in the States.
And I think that really shaped me in a way that of course makes me so different from whom who my parents were.
And when you moved here at twenty, was that with your family or was that on your own?
That was on my own.
Okay.
So what brought you to the States
Acting.
I wanted to act.
So I went straight to Hollywood and I had to travel back and forth a lot because of visas and all that stuff.
But I ended up staying and lived in LA for fifteen years and now like Satya said we're in Ohio.
So yeah, I'm getting close to twenty years in the States.
And I'm so grateful to have both experiences.
I think I was able to find and explore things here that would have been a lot harder back home.
I'm so grateful to have had my childhood in Sweden and and not here
Mm.
When you say that the Swedish culture played a big part in your childhood, what does that mean?
Like what does it look like to grow up in the Swedish culture in comparison to the states where you guys live or Canada where I am
Yeah, I mean it's both good and bad, right?
It was a very safe and beautiful place to grow up.
I had a very
Blessed and privileged and again safe childhood.
What got harder as I grew up is that it's a culture that it felt like in the box living
If you were too loud, too bold, then you would be looked at as somebody who was way too needy, too high maintenance.
Too much, just too much in general.
At least when I grew up there, it was a lot about stay neutral, stay under the radar, be a kind and good person, but don't stand out too much.
Right.
It's a collectivism versus individual society, right?
As Americans, we we celebrate the individual and I think Sweden, right?
It's all about the collective.
Yeah.
And I think that's something that I love about our friendship too.
It's like it's so nice to have someone who thinks about the collective because, you know, as you're raised in America, you're so
I mean many, I shouldn't say, you know, it's a generalization, but you want to stand out, you want to be the entrepreneur, you want to be celebrated.
There's a lot of that achievement and individualism.
that is celebrated, whereas the collective is really wonderful.
And and right, it's a double-edged sword, right?
You you have people who don't get to be who they fully are until they're able to hopefully break free.
And there's something really nice about societies that work together to improve the whole.
And I think that that's a nice thing to have
Emily has the two, right?
She has the individual and she has the collective.
And I see that especially as a business partner.
She's constantly thinking about the collective.
It's not just about us.
It's about our community.
It's about our mamas.
It's about our mama mama.
That's a really sweet reflection.
And it just adds so much pressure to that good girl thinking.
Right?
I grew up really believing that if I could just be a good girl with great grades, a good kind
solid person who didn't stand out too much who didn't have too many opinions then I would be safe and as a kid who would not want safety
And that has been a very hard box for me to break free from.
Satya has witnessed a lot of it actually in just the last two years of me breaking free.
And is it's very uncomfortable.
It's amazing because even Emily's
visual appearance has changed.
You haven't changed.
But when I look at the engagement video of you and Justin, it's like looking at a whole nother person.
It's like you have been reborn.
It's awesome.
You've reparented, reborn, re-emelied, read Vikinged.
You've like re-read.
I can see how good of friends you are that you can
call that out in each other and say, I see you being reborn.
I see you coming out of your shell and being this person.
And if you think about this little Swedish girl who wasn't able to talk and wasn't able to maybe express her opinions
How do you do that healing work?
Like I know Satya, you mentioned that you see you said Emily, you do the work.
But what does that look like for you
It has looked so many different ways.
Yeah.
It has looked like a lot of talk therapy.
It has looked like somatic therapy.
It has looked like
a lot of movement finding my way back into my body through movement.
It has looked like energy retreats and energy healing.
Some things if you were to witness it, you would probably think is totally bonkers.
But it's the the stuff that has brought me back home.
And it's been classes and
courses.
This year I'm in a in a priestessing school, learning about the sacred arts and how to walk as love, learning about the 13 different archetypes of the divine feminine.
And that has brought me so much healing looking at the different
frequencies and energies of the divine feminine, like the great mother, the goddess of compassion, the muse, the primal goddess, the initiator, all these different
Frequencies and energies that are all part of me, and by learning about them, finding pieces of myself and putting the puzzle back together
And just living in this deep remembrance of, oh my gosh, this is who I am.
This is who I've been all along.
And this is who you are.
Yeah.
This is who she is.
This is who we all are.
And just slowly, slowly opening my eyes to what I think is the truth.
And then also being a Baha'i and having a spiritual journey.
through that is it's just been a it's been a big stew, like a big soup of so many different ingredients, constantly following the crumbs of
What is right in this moment?
And truly hearing the voice inside that says go left or go right.
And then having that trust to follow that and leaning in.
Wow.
I love that you said that too.
There's so many pieces.
I think sometimes when when people think about breaking cycles or healing, we're we're thinking about this linear journey where
I decided I don't want to be like my parents, so I go to therapy and now I'm I'm better and I'm not like my parents.
But it's not even just being like or not being like our parents.
It's this whole
reflection and finding our own like you were talking about your internal voice who am I and and who do I want to be?
And I love that you talk so openly about that.
And
Satya, I know and I'm really interested in one of the pieces that you were talking about too.
You were saying how you were in New York before coming back to California.
And you had your child and then you're still living what you said, a New York lifestyle.
And what I'm imagining is kind of the opposite of Emily
this collectivism growing up, you're this individual trying to do all the things and be a mom.
And so what have that experience of
kind of reconstructing what motherhood and yourself looks like, how's that been for you in in comparison to Emily?
Well it's funny, it really
Did start as a child.
You know, I realized that in thinking about this podcast actually about my childhood specifically, that so much of
my attention and praise was given for accomplishment.
And so everything I even see it in our our
work that we do at AMA, we are AMA and I am so focused on literally like working myself like crazy to get all the things done.
And one thing that I have to say about motherhood is it really, it really puts you
gets you straight.
Like it tells you you see when you're not being present to your children and you see when you see how it affects your children.
And so I am very you know and it's funny, New York is just like it's another cloak that I wear, right?
Like
New York is so the energy is fast and fast paced and always doing and always moving.
And so I think with my journey, I've been kind of, especially here in Ohio, I've definitely been softening and slowing down
for my version of slowing down this.
My my slowing down is like somebody else's like, you know, raccoon on meth pace.
Like I move really, really fast and I like doing a lot of things.
And I like
being the best, which is kind of funny saying out loud, but I really I love our products being the best.
I love our copy being the best.
And I will rework things and I will get up early and stay up late and then put kids to bed and
But that's literally, yeah, that's very much who I am.
It's not something I necessarily want my kids to inherit, but I do want them to learn and to witness somebody who is able to do it all without depleting me.
And so there's a lot of time and attention that is focused, even with my kids, to nourish myself.
When we started AMA, we don't I don't think we knew what our mission was immediately.
And it's evolved into being, you know, a nurtured mom, mother changes the world.
And so I feel like Emily and I are leading by example, especially to our children, that we are nourishing ourselves.
We are
nurturing ourselves.
We are, for lack of better words, we are self-carrying ourselves so that we can show it fully.
We're doing the classes, we're doing the healing, we're doing the talk therapy.
We're doing
We're doing the things while also being, right?
Because I I feel, at least this is my opinion, that the being is also really important.
to to show up fully and sh also show that women know how to take care of themselves.
And that is an important element and something that I've had to learn how to do better since becoming a mother.
I have to say that's that's one of many things that things that Satya has taught me so much about.
And I don't think I've ever really told you that, but
this idea of self-care and to not have that be a shameful or bad thing.
You know, I couldn't even stand the word self-care for a minute there when we had first met.
And you have helped me change that
completely and Satya is such a beautiful example of somebody who is just beyond dedicated and committed to our business.
to her own work, to her own self, to her family.
I'm very often just in awe of how she's able to balance it all.
But her and her husband Jeffrey
Jeffrey are they've figured something out.
But it's beautiful to see that you can do and be all these things and have it feel balanced and harmonious and not like it's slowly killing you.
Yeah.
I think that's the key for our kids to see and and I know similar to the two of you, we run our own business as well.
And I think when you're showing your children being a woman or being parents
and running a business and trying to show up for them in motherhood.
It could go either way.
You could show them that it just depletes every aspect of you and and you have nothing left to give to them.
Or you can show them how you do it while still nurturing yourself.
And I think that's where we are ALMA and Nurtured First.
So we changed the name recently.
uh of our business to nurtured first.
And the whole idea behind that was the first thing we need to do as parents is to nurture.
And so whether that's when our children are having a hard time, the first thing we do is nurture them.
or ourselves and it's the idea of taking back this idea that we have to just be a martyr in parenthood and give, give, give, give of ourselves.
And the first thing that we often need to do is nurture ourselves and
I think you're right, the word self-care can just be cringe.
Like people don't necessarily like it.
And even for myself, I I have to be okay to claim it and say, oh, it's actually it is important.
It it maybe sounds
Like it's not, but it is one of the most important things that we could do.
It totally needs a rebrand because when we think of self-care, we think of this person as just like taking care of themselves without needing to take care of other things or who has time for that
Whereas like I think we are trying to shift a culture in motherhood in particular.
And motherhood is full of so many seasons, right?
Like tomorrow it could
feel like, well, I don't have it all together and I can't do all these things right now.
You know, and I think that's a really important thing that I want to teach my children is like things are seasonal.
There are times when it feels like it's too much and you can move through that
And you are you and you can move through anything.
It may feel painful, it may feel like you want to quit, and you can do anything.
There's something to that that I'm trying to instill in my children that, you know, I know I see a lot of younger people just quitting when things get hard.
And how do you both listen intuitively and also know that like
I am me.
I can get one of the things actually this is so fun.
So one of the things my mom is always saying, oh, I'm so worried about you, or I'm so worried about your brother, about a particular subject.
And I literally look at her and I'm like, but I am me.
You know that I have the skills to get myself through it.
And if everything else fails.
I will pick myself up because I have your love, I have your support, I have my friends.
Like you don't have to worry because you've created a human
I mean with some tools now, but like that can get back up.
There is very little things that you can't get back up from because life forces you to get back up.
And I am me and I have the tools.
And so, you know, when my mom now says that I look at her, I'm just like, you're just repeating the same story.
So let's change the narrative.
Let's say like, you know, it it it's different.
Yeah, it's the idea of resilience too, I think, and and that's something that's really important for us to instill in our kids too.
I this summer my six year old I said she struggles with worries and
She was going to do swimming lessons for the first time.
And for the months leading up to swimming lessons, we heard, oh, when's swimming lessons start?
When does it start?
How's it going to go?
She had so many questions and that's how you can tell she's worried when she asks so many questions
and the day of she was just clinging to me and she wasn't feeling confident and I had a choice.
It's either, okay, well
You're worried, so I'm not gonna put you in swimming lessons.
Or I can say, I know you can do something hard.
And I know swimming lessons feels really hard to you.
And I'm not gonna yell at you.
I'm not gonna, you know, belittle you and say, you have to do this because I paid whatever amount of money for your swimming lesson.
I'm gonna traumatize her, but I'm gonna say
I know you can do something hard and I'm gonna be here with you every step of the way as you get into that water.
And she got into the water and just seeing her face after the first lesson was just
the most beautiful experience because she did it and then she now has the story like what you're saying.
She is herself and she can do hard things and she's capable of doing something that makes her worried.
And I think that's where the tools that we've been talking about, that's where they come in.
It's not being passive, it's helping our kids do do the thing.
Are we all Glenn and Doyle fans?
I feel like we can do hard things.
And had her get the book during COVID.
And I it I think it like even for, you know, a 60 I don't know
I think my mom's in our late 60s, a 60-year-old woman or 70 now.
Like it made such a difference because I don't think anybody had told her as a child, you can do hard things.
You know, and I think that's that's so important.
I say it to my son too because you know, like I feel like my daughters, I'm like, you guys can do hard things and nobody tells him he can do hard things.
And I'm like, no, you can do hard things too.
Mommy can do hard things
Emily, I had to laugh.
I was watching a video from We Are Alma, one of your uh one of your advertisements.
Maybe you know the one I'm talking about.
And you're withzing with is it the one she's futzing with a cocoon or not a cocoon, a nursing cocoon?
Cocoon.
And then there's a part of the video where Emily's sitting there, she has like breathmilk stains on her
She looks like so, so depleted and I'm laughing, but I'm also relating because I know how difficult those first months of parenthood is.
And I know the feeling of your shirt is stained with milk and you're like, am I ever gonna be just clean?
Like I wake up and I'm sticky and I'm gross.
So how does that idea of resilience or trying to get through hard things come into play in parenthood for for both of you?
Well the funny thing about that one scene is that Emily literally says the line, something like, and you wonder if you will ever feel like yourself again.
That's right.
And you're strolling that stroller, you're pushing the stroller back and forth and you have
you know, you're drinking out of a kid's sippy cup and you have a t-shirt with milk stains.
Yeah, I mean postpartum is no joke.
Mm-hmm.
And everybody's experience is different.
I do have a younger sister who who was like, I want to go partying.
But she felt so good the day after giving birth.
And I remember looking at her, because I had had my kid two years before being like
How are you having such a different postpartum experience?
So if you're pregnant and listening to this, it doesn't have to be your experience.
But everybody that I know prepares for the nursery, prepares for
birthing, right?
Either, you know, I'm having a home birth and I'm doing all these things, or I'm having a hospital birth and I'm doing all these things.
And we forget
I don't even know if we forget.
We don't know yet.
And nobody shares with us that those early days are so challenging.
And and at least okay.
So let's go back a second because
I and Emily now, but like we live in America where mama is put in the corner.
You're supposed to have this baby, it's supposed to be easy, you're supposed to do in a hospital, you can have a C section if you want to.
Like
You know, you shouldn't complain.
You you know, all these things that we, at least growing up in America, like you see.
And so, you know, we don't value mothers
We definitely don't value the work that mothers do, right?
Stay-at-home moms for some reason have this reputation of like staying home and being able to watch TV.
Like how nice.
Oh, how nice.
Exactly.
And yet like I could work probably like six different jobs during the day and work eighteen hour shifts and I would still say that being a stay at home parent is so much harder
And so being a mom is this real downplayed thing, you know, and I think that we are the number one resource.
in the world.
Mothers have the most important job and that's kind of ties back to our mission.
A nurtured mom will change the world.
And we really believe that if a mom is nourished and nurtured, she will take care of her children
and she will be able to be present, she will take care of herself and having children who have the tools to do whatever
they need to do in this world will create a better and happier society, at least that's what we believe.
And anyways, going back to postpartum, postpartum is can be a beast.
And I had a really rough awakening.
I had come from New York City.
I was only supposed to be in California for three months.
We ended up deciding to stay and move our businesses.
I had this
You know, I had so much attention on the me.
I had a crazy hat business.
I bought this hat factory in the middle of Manhattan and all of a sudden I'm sitting in this house
in the middle of California with this little child who I didn't even realize that I was gonna need to nurse 247 just to keep alive.
And I'd put so much pressure on myself to breastfeed.
And I am the most polydetermined person I know.
I mean, I will stick with something to my detriment.
I mean, I probably should have just given her formula, but she ended up having a tongue tie and a lip tie.
Um within the first three days, my nipples were completely torn apart because she wasn't getting enough milk, there was no sleep happening.
So when people were like sleep like a baby, I was like, what?
What the heck are they talking about?
I was like, my baby's up 24-7.
I mean, I I was a wreck, and like I mentioned, I was like
You know, I I didn't even register for a nursing cover.
I mean, I didn't even do a registry to start with, but like, you know, I didn't even I you know, I had some things prepared for the nursery, but like
I went into it a little bit as somebody who's so determined and so well informed about stuff.
I mean I knew everything about
w how to change diapers to how to home birth, how to do my meditations and my visualizations to have a, you know, non-medicalized birth.
And and anyways, like
I did a a lot, but I did not prepare for how hard it was gonna be physically, emotionally, and psychologically to have a child who relies on you 24-7 and for you to be their whole world.
So and I also gave up work
Like as a maternity leave for eight months I didn't work.
And all of a sudden I felt so lost.
Of course, I did not have a community.
I did not have friends in this town.
Our town in particular does not have a lot of baby things to do.
So it's not like you have mommy and me classes.
It's such a s there's eight thousand people in our population of eight thousand in our
Oh wow here.
So it's it's tiny.
And so and I we don't I live in a mountain.
Like I like moved to this remote place, which is funny because my parents did the same thing, and I felt so isolated.
And so that was really challenging.
I was totally determined, particularly to breastfeed my child, but I wasn't sleeping.
I wasn't taking care of myself.
I definitely
Definitely was not doing any self-care at that time, even though I'd already created a very strong practice of nurturing and nourishing myself
So I was a completely depleted person and a total zombie to the point where, you know, I would lock myself in my bathroom and my husband would be outside holding and rocking our daughter.
And just being like, sweetie, you have to come out, she needs milk.
And I was just crying.
And of course, this stress and anxiety of that, like my milk would be completely, you know, depleted.
And so
I was living in a very vicious cycle.
And I think that's one of the reasons that AMA is so important to me and the commitment to helping nourish and nurture moms is so important because
I've been there.
It sucks.
It's the hardest thing.
And I wasn't even dealing with like psychoses.
So I don't even, you know, I can't even speak to that.
But I can see how just
the downworld spiral is very, especially during that very tender postpartum time, it is a very s easy cycle to go down.
And when you don't have the community friends or support, it's a very lonely, dark place.
And so having a place and community like We Are AMA
is imperative and just having general support.
I remember when Scott and I brought our first daughter home, you're letting us go home.
Right?
No, and are we qualified to do this?
No.
Sure.
For me, I was already a therapist who had worked with families and kids for so long.
And I thought, oh, I got this.
I don't need to learn about the baby part.
I learned about the birth, similar to you, that whole experience
And my story is very similar to yours where I ended up having postpartum anxiety and I can relate to so many pieces and your mission to nurture mamas because
I feel the same.
And I think once you've gone through something like that and you've been the mom on the floor crying while your husband's trying to rock the baby in the other room and you can't breastfeed all these things, I think you just have this heart and this
mission to support parents that is really unmatched and and that's exactly why I started my page two back in the day because I want to
to support parents in the same way.
Emily, I was listening to you on, I think it was Maybe Justin's podcast and I was listening to you talk
Well, about all sorts of things and then I fell in love with you and was like, I can't wait for Emily to come on and Satya.
But I was listening to you talk about how in that season of life for you
Justin was obviously on Jane the Virgin.
He was becoming super famous, popular.
Everyone knew who Justin was.
Yet you're kind of at home with the kids.
And I was wondering if you wanted to speak a little bit to that experience because I feel like that's probably still something that happens.
I mean, even me, like I'm reach I reached out originally to Justin and then ended up learning more about the two of you, which was absolutely incredible.
This has been amazing
But I think that there's something to be said and there's something I could relate to, to having your partner kind of everybody knows them and they're getting all the questions mean while you're at home doing all this.
unseen work and and struggling at home.
Yeah, such a good question.
Yeah, it was something that we both really struggled with back then.
I think we both had the experience of living on two different planets.
You know, he got to be out there and work and have adult conversations and follow his passion and his purpose.
Meanwhile, having his own struggles with wanting to be home, wanting to make sure that he was there for baby's first step, yada yada, all the things, and really feeling like, oh my gosh, I am missing out
And feeling that patriarchal pressure of being the provider, bringing home the money and taking care of the family, because that is what is honorable and respectful.
And I was at home on my own little planet, feeling like I was drowning in diapers, not having enough adult conversations, not having anybody to lean on.
for sure not feeling anything that felt like my purpose and passion.
I love being a mom, but I was like, I am so much more than this.
What happened?
And then also that feeling of Justin's work being so celebrated and having articles written about him and interviews and the re
podcasts and anytime we would go somewhere together people just like they just went up to Justin and I had very few people make eye contact with me.
I was standing right there next to him.
And while all of his work definitely deserves all of the accolades and all of the attention and all of the hype and the celebration, there was this feeling in me of
Is anybody aware of what I'm doing to make that work possible?
Right.
Yeah.
Is anybody aware of the work that I'm putting in so that he can be a father and a professional out there?
And that's where I felt like nobody gets it, except for my my fellow mothers, obviously.
But I was like, nobody sees it.
And it was that realization of
My work is so invisible.
It's like you can't you can't measure it.
You can't, what is it?
What is it even?
And then looking outside in the in the society in our culture
Mothers are at least I feel like it's shifting and changing a little bit, but maybe that's because we're in the industry that we're in and we're part of that shifting
But I just felt like nobody really talks about it.
Nobody celebrates and uplifts mothers.
Yeah.
Nobody thinks about the extraordinary things that they learn just from being mothers that I think I talked about it uh at his podcast or on his podcast.
We become as mothers so rich in
patience and problem solving and kindness and learning how to nurture, learning how to think about the collective, learning we're just learning these deep, beautiful, life-giving lessons.
And yet society can't wait for us to just stop doing that shit and just become productive again.
Right?
Can you just come back and be productive and useful?
The most useful thing you could do is create the good humans
You know?
Absolutely.
And then still, if you choose to come back to work outside of being a mom to those that are humans, just think of all the things that we learn.
Just from being a mother.
I am a much better person since becoming a mother.
It's just there there's there's a depth to me, there is a maturity to me, there
There is beauty and joy that I didn't know of before.
There's also heartache and pain I did not know of before, but that is actually making me a better human being because I'm working with it.
And I just see myself as a
citizen that is so useful and important with so much to offer because I became a mother
Not that I need to do all those things, but I like I feel like we we kinda turn into gold through a very what can be a very
difficult journey, but we turn into gold.
Maybe we're diamonds.
We're like diamonds.
Yeah, we're like diamonds can only happen under really strong pressure.
Right?
It's like we're yeah that's it.
Yeah.
The diamonds.
We'll just uh we'll coin that.
We're diamonds.
We're diamonds.
Well I I totally agree with that.
And I think there's just so much of this unseen work and load and things that we do as parents, especially when we're the parent
who's kind of the default parent or the behind the scenes parent.
I know I've seen that almost in like in a different way but in a flip way
with myself and Scott who's sitting here because for me I'm the face of a brand nurtured first.
And so over the last five years
I've been the one that's on the camera and nurtured first and now I mean it's a much smaller scale obviously than Justin, but I'm the one that people kind of recognize when we're out.
And Scott is the one who has made so much of it possible
He's been my cheerleader.
He's been the one doing late late nights when he worked a different job, like staying up trying to make this happen or taking care of the kids and
And I know for him it it's the flip, but he also gets that where, you know, Jess gets the praise and and people see what Jess is doing, but they don't necessarily see that work.
And
the time that goes on there.
And I know that that can be really hard.
And and I had this like image of my in my mind when you were talking about you and Justin, especially because that happened in such like the early years of having like your babies must have been really little kind of at that time.
Oh yeah.
I'm having this image of you, like kind of him in front, and you're there and you're just like, hey, none of this can happen if it wasn't for me, but you don't get to share that side of your story.
And I think that's the experience of so many parents of, hey, I'm here, I'm doing all this work.
I'm actually becoming this diamond.
I'm becoming this new version of myself, but I don't get to share that with the world.
And and that can be really difficult.
Well, and I think that's also interesting is the duality, right?
It's like that bittersweet thing, right?
We see our kids growing up and it's like that, oh, I miss them being little, but I'm so happy.
And it the polarity of the two, right?
You have to have the two sides of the coin.
You cannot do what you do, Jess, without Scott, right?
You can't.
Like maybe you could.
It's just harder.
It's more difficult, right?
And Justin couldn't
have been all that he is, which is incredibly not just accomplished actor, but an incredible human and friend and dad and you know, he was running
Skidrow Carnival, like he was doing so much and you were equally doing as much and it's unseen and uncelebrated.
I have
one last question before we kind of wrap up.
And it's been something I've been thinking the whole time 'cause we were talking about this collectivistic culture and at the very beginning you're telling us about how your families are joined together and the way that you do life and do parenting together.
Hey friends, so at pickup last week our daughter asked Scott a truly kind of tricky question in front of her younger siblings.
Scott was telling me that when he heard a question like this, he used to panic, but this time he had a plan.
And he said to our daughter, thank you for asking.
Let's talk tonight when we've got privacy.
And that's a line that he learned straight from our new body safety and consent course at Nurtur.
So this new body safety and consent course is taught by me.
So Jess, if you listen to this podcast, you know me.
I'm a child therapist and a mom of three, and I have taught body safety and consent education for years.
This course takes all my years of experience teaching this education and gives you calm, age-appropriate language for body parts, consent, and boundaries.
You'll learn how to teach your kids that no means no, you'll learn how to teach them to read facial cues, you'll talk about safe and unspeakable.
safe touch and you'll even teach them about their uh oh feeling.
There's guidance inside this course for the real life stuff like tickling that goes too far and even the difference between a secret and a surprise.
We made this course at Nurture First because research shows that body safety education helps kids speak
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So check the course out at nurturefirst.
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And just full disclosure here, we are the creators of this course and we're so proud of it.
So how do you bring those aspects of that collectivistic, that culture that that works together?
How do you bring that into your lives and
Is there any messages or words of advice or support for moms who really are needing that and craving that?
Mmm.
What a good question.
Yeah, community and tribe is everything, isn't it?
Well, I think there are two parts to that.
I think as women and mothers just in general, I think we just need to kind of push ourselves beyond our comfort zones a little bit and dare to reach out.
dare to ask for help.
Let go of this idea that you need to figure it all out on your own.
Reach out.
Call your friends.
Go out and maybe make new friends.
Start a class.
Do whatever.
Follow the crumbs that make you feel
even just a little bit blissful.
Follow your joy, follow your bliss, and there you will find your people and start building your own community and then lean on them.
That has been everything.
for me.
Everything.
And then when it comes to the families, I think it's just so important to I mean that's one one of the things that we get just by living where we're living.
Like today there's a farmers market and we know that all the families that we know are gonna gather at this
farmers market and the parents get to connect and the kids get to run around while we buy this beautiful project.
But there's like you know, we we we look for those opportunities where there is community.
And I think that's really important for the whole
whole family to to have that.
And we're also very lucky to have grandparents nearby and aunties.
And you know, we have our family nearby.
And I know that's a luxury that a lot of people just simply don't get to have
Unfortunately, my family lives all the way in Sweden, so I guess I found the best that I could without having them close.
But to have family dinners and to create this sense of community and that we are part of something
And another thing that I know that I'm sure you can talk a lot to is that something that is so healthy for children is that they feel that they have a role, that they have a significance, they have
true belonging within the family, that they are part of the tribe, and that they are needed for their very own specific unique gifts and personality, and to make them feel that they are part of the whole
I think that's just so important.
And I also know that when you're in the throes of postpartum, that might be the last thing that you have the energy for to actually make happen.
And I just want to see that and
witness that because I that was me.
But take those little baby steps.
Like I said, follow the crumbs.
And then slowly the energy will come back and you'll move out of the season that you're in right now and you'll enter a completely new season with a completely new
Child it seems, and then find your way back to community if you can.
It's just just so valuable.
I of course
Go to a meme.
We posted this meme on We Are Ama and it was like they say it takes a village.
Is there a number to call?
And I just love that because
It's so true.
It's like you just have this child and you're like, wait, wait, where's everybody?
Like, you know, it's it's hard.
I don't think we necessarily got lucky.
I think we got we planned.
We knew that it was gonna take more than just ourselves to raise
these conscious, kind loving children, and we made the choice to move to a community that valued that
Right.
My first choice would probably be to go to Portugal or Spain, but here we are, right?
Like we have this community is beautifully focused and our kids can run around in the farmers market.
We chose that.
Right.
We literally are consciously making decisions about how to raise our family.
And you know, you guys consciously made the decision that your family was also going to move with you to this town, you know, and and it's it's total luxury and it's not impossible
If Emily and I can be a an inspiration to any one person or any one family out there, it's like, you know, family doesn't have to mean you're
blood family, right?
Like I created a community and family in New York and now we're doing the same here and now it actually includes my blood relatives.
But community and family will get you through especially the really hard times and it's really been really nice to be able to lean on others when
I feel like I need a little bit more stability.
You are resilient, you are capable, and you can create motherhood to be what you need it to be.
And sometimes it may take a little bit of time to shift, but if you are intentional and you take the time to understand what motivates you or what you need.
then you can actually be a nurtured first parent, right?
You can nurture yourself first and then you can be there to nurture your children.
Yeah.
I love that.
And I I love the word that you used there to wrap this up.
It's like shift.
And I know in those trickier times for me, and there's seasons, like there's seasons where it is almost impossible to go to the bathroom alone
And I I've had those seasons too, where I have three kids in the bathroom with me and it seems like no matter what, they're also up all night.
Like there's there's no time alone.
And in those seasons when I have felt life to be the most unmanageable, and we call it at Nurtured First like a tiny moment or a tiny thing we can do to just shift.
And just make one little change.
And I think often it feels like it has to be this huge life change or so just starting small and finding pockets of joy, like you said, Emily, and
going towards those pockets of joy, even if it's the smallest thing that you just like and and just maybe in doing that you'll find a friend.
And it doesn't have to be your family does can be your chosen family.
It doesn't have to be your blood relatives if you are a cycle breaker and you're wondering
Well, I don't have that family.
I know for me some of my dearest friends are aunt and uncles to my kids.
And it's it's the most beautiful thing
To wrap it up, I just wanted to say you are both incredible.
I love how your company name is We Are Ama.
I mean, the name itself is community to me.
And I know what you sell is is this beautiful
cocoon wrap that makes breastfeeding so much easier and nicer and it's very fashionable and it was created off of Justin's mom's idea in the 80s, which we were saying had shoulder pads back then and no longer does
Because you are both very fashionable women uh made sure of it.
But I wonder if you want to just speak a little bit to that before we wrap up.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thank you.
Yeah, so We Are AMA is a community, and it's a community of moms.
And Emily and I are focused on making sure that every mother
in the world is nurtured and nourished so she can go and change the future by being able and being capable to
create children in this world who will go and make a difference.
We create products that help her feel nourished and whole and complete so that she can do the hardest job on earth.
And empower herself.
Yeah
Yeah.
I feel as though we are so aligned.
I'm so glad that we found each other.
Thank you both for being here today, and uh I'm sure we'll talk again soon.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, Jess.
This was so fun.
Thank you.
Let's head over to Coffee Time where Scott and I share some of our reflections from this amazing conversation.
One of the stories that really stood out to me when
and talking to Emily and Satya was this story of Emily being home with the kids, breastfeeding.
She's postpartum.
And Justin's career at the time is really blossoming and and he's
doing all of these things and she's feeling really unseen at home and she's starting to feel maybe even like a bitterness or resentment like I'm doing all of this.
I'm taking care of the kids.
I'm doing the sleepless nights.
I'm doing the breastfeeding
And then when I go out in in public, Justin gets all the credit for all the amazing things that he's doing, but he couldn't do those things if I wasn't at home doing what I'm doing.
And she was saying that there was so many times where she would go out and she'd kind of be a little bit behind Justin, like he'd be walking and people wouldn't even really be looking at her or talking to her.
And I think it really brought up that invisible load that we can have as parents.
And I think you and I have both been in that situation maybe in different ways.
I think when you were a sales engineer and you were traveling a lot, I remember feeling very similar to Emily where people would always ask me, Oh, how's Scott?
Oh, he's traveling here, or I hear that he's over here this week
Right?
Yeah.
Nobody would ever ask you anything about yourself.
No one would ever ask me anything about myself.
And I would always feel so small in those conversations.
People would always say, Oh, Scott's got this cool job and he travels and he does this and that.
And I would be like
Yeah, but I'm home and I I'm working my butt off, like I'm trying to work and pick my daughter up from childcare and do all the meals and do all the sleep stuff and
But I felt very unseen.
And that really stood out to me, because I know a lot of parents listening to this probably can relate to being on both ends of that spectrum.
Yeah, I'm sure that's true.
I mean even for myself.
Now with Nurtured First, it's funny.
I was in Montreal even a couple years ago and I got recognized.
But I wasn't recognized as Scott, I was recognized as Jess's husband
Which I thought was funny.
And honestly, I don't mind being behind the scenes.
But it's yeah, it was kinda funny.
And my friends even noticed that too, so all of a sudden now my name in their phones
Instead of it being Scott is Jess's husband.
So whenever I text or call them, that's how they see it.
And it yeah, I can see how it would be perceived maybe as like I'm not as important
Yeah.
Two things is you.
I personally don't feel that way 'cause I actually prefer it this way.
Yeah, I don't necessarily need to be in the lime white.
But I think what you can relate to
is even let's say when nurtured first is growing and stuff like that and everyone's like oh look what Jess is doing.
Look what everything Jess is doing.
Meanwhile it was equal parts you and equal parts me.
You're just kind of the face of everything that happens.
Right.
And so you'd almost be a little bit invisible and people would just come up to me and say, Oh, I love what you're doing, love what you're talking about not realizing that behind the scenes if I don't have
Scott, then none of this exists and none of this happens.
So I feel like we could relate to that.
And I was wondering if
there's anything that you've done or that we've done together to kind of be okay with the ebbs and flows of parenting in that way.
So for example, I'm going on a trip next week and you're gonna be home the whole week taking care of the kids and
Doing all the bedtimes and dinner and stuff like that.
And then there's been many, many times that you've traveled and I've stayed home and I've done all of that
So how do we navigate kind of switching off being the default parent and not getting bitter or resentful at each other?
Because I think that is such a common struggle in marriage.
And we didn't really get into anything that helps with that in the episode.
I mean we're constantly talking to each other about this.
So I think it's really down to communication, just communicating about it without attacking the other person.
I think that's huge.
I feel like we actually have really good communication.
If anything, we communicate like all the time.
We're constantly talking about it.
I mean we work together.
Yeah.
We live together.
We do everything together.
But I do remember that there was a time when I was feeling really overwhelmed with everything.
And this is actually similar to another little discussion we had yesterday, but I was feeling really overwhelmed with everything that I had on my plate for the kids
and work.
And I remember you being like, well Jess, I don't know what you're all doing.
And like I wanna help you, but I don't know you're holding back all that information from me and just doing it.
Yeah, it certainly doesn't help when you withhold all of the things that you're doing and then hold it against me for not helping with it or hold it against anyone else.
Yeah, we were arguing and then you were like
Jess, well I can't help you if you don't even tell me what you're all doing and then I was like, Well, I don't have time to tell you 'cause I'm doing so many things.
So I think one of the most helpful things we ever did to help with that feeling of overwhelm and burnout was write down all of the different things that we were doing.
Like everything from like who's gonna answer the teacher emails, who's going to be the one to do like hot dog day at school, who's going to do the pickups and drop-offs, and like outlining all of the different tasks that we were doing
So that we could both see it.
And it was a lot.
In including yard work, which you were doing the majority of the yard work at the time, like and then trying to
separate that out, I think really helped us see what the other person is doing and help with that invisible load.
That can feel really heavy.
I think that helped
I mean again, I like our situation a little bit different because we're constantly communicating with each other about things.
So yeah, there's certain things that go unnoticed, but it's less likely for us than
Two parents who have, yeah, separate jobs work in different locations or one is stay at home and the other one is working and you don't necessarily see all of the things that the other person is doing.
So I think writing it out and definitely listing out like here are all the things that I'm doing, here are the things that I feel like I need help with.
I I do think that that would help.
Yeah, that is an exercise that I would do with a lot of clients who are feeling that weight of the invisible load.
And I think what you said is important that we touch on too is is our privilege.
So as we're having these discussions, like it is really important for Scott and I to acknowledge like we do work together.
We spend a lot of time together and we have a community of support around us.
We live close to family.
We have friends around here
But we acknowledge that not everyone has that.
And even something as simple as talking about therapy, uh, we talk about therapy a lot, but therapy can be really difficult to access, it can be difficult to have time to go to therapy, it can be expensive
And we don't wanna just blow over all of those things that are really important to talk about too.
For sure, 'cause it can come across as though it
Here are the quick tips and here's the best way and the only way that you're gonna be able to solve all your problems as a parent and connect with all these people, but that
may not be the reality in a lot of cases too.
Yeah, for a lot of us we might not always have that support or the ability to get that support.
And that's where I think it is important to have the discussions that we've been having on this podcast
so that at least we can help you maybe feel less alone in the struggles that you're going through.
And maybe there's one thing that you can pull out that you can try from one of the episodes
But please know that sometimes different seasons of life we can't do all of the things that we we've been talking about on the episode and and that's okay too.
Yeah.
I was thinking as I was listening back to the episode, and I feel like I've now talked about this on several intros and outros, so I apologize, but my ankle has been this ongoing struggle
I was working out and working out was a part of my whole thing of trying to feel better as a mom after having three kids.
And of course, as I'm working out, trying to be fun and do something for myself, I jump and I twist my ankle.
And that was almost two weeks ago now.
And in the last two weeks I've just been dealing with trying to figure out what's going on.
I'm not still not sure if I've broken it or or what's happening.
But as I was listening to the episode, I was thinking a lot about my ankle because as soon as my ankle was hurting and in pain
I went and I got help.
I wasn't afraid to tell my parents, hey, I hurt my ankle, or wasn't afraid to say to you, hey, I actually might need some extra help with the kids at bedtime because it's hard to climb up on our daughter's bunk bed or something like that.
And I was thinking still about the stigma between mental health and physical health.
Like it's easy for me to say, I hurt my ankle, I need help.
But then I think about moms that I know personally right now who are struggling with postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety, and it is so hard for them to reach out for help.
And if they do, then sometimes people are like, oh well, I had three kids and and I could do it.
It was easy.
Or yes, you know, sometimes it's just tough.
You just have to grin and bear it.
But I wonder if we could rally around parents who are struggling with their mental health in the postpartum period the same way we would rally around them if they broke their leg or if they broke their arm.
Like we wouldn't hesitate to go to their house and be like, okay, let's help.
Let's help make meals.
Let's help with the baby.
But with mental health, there's still that barrier.
And I think that's why it's so important that we have these conversations and we know that struggling with postpartum anxiety
Parents need the same amount of support as if they hurt their ankle.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think it does.
I mean being a guy too, I feel as though
the stigma is even greater for men, it seems at times.
You can't talk about that subject at all.
Mental health, I'm feeling anxiety or depressed or whatever, any of that stuff.
That's just not a conversation that we can have.
And I say that in air quotes.
Yeah, I feel like dads really struggle with that too.
And Yeah, but it's a real thing.
It's a real thing.
I don't know if you're open to sharing even like a piece of your year last year, but you actually were struggling with some mental health
Yeah, definitely.
I was definitely feeling a lot of anxiety around a situation I had with the person who abused me as a kid.
And I ended up going to seek help after
trying a lot of different things and ended up on yeah an anti-anxiety medication just to try and just calm my nerves a bit and get down to like a normal level of
Anxiety.
That's not unhealthy.
Yeah.
I think what the meds have been incredibly helpful, first off.
So let's let's get rid of the stigma for men and women around taking medication.
Yeah, it definitely has made it
Huge impact on the way my brain operates now.
I feel as though I can think much more clearly without having that cloud of like I'm in danger constantly.
Yeah, exactly.
And and anxiety was really hard and for you to deal with.
It was every day it was a struggle for you
And I think another thing that was beautiful in pretty much a year for everyone listening, like a year of intense anxiety after a situation that happened before you sought help for medication
was the way that our friends and our family even showed up for us.
Because you were open enough to say, I'm struggling with my mental health.
This is what happened and this is how that's triggered me and this is w what's happening for me
you actually were able to get support and I think it was actually really beautiful to see how people showed up for you in that time.
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
I think part of that is just due to the fact that I was actually open about it.
Because I think up until that point in time, nobody really understood anything of what I went through, the ramifications of what I went through
how I actually felt like even my kids were in danger from this.
So I think that high level of anxiety came from the fact that like
It's not necessarily me that I was worried about.
It's more protecting the kids.
And I'm constantly worried because I'm not with them all the time.
How are we going to make sure they're protected?
Yeah, so your anxiety really came from a place of protection.
Like I I need to protect my family.
I need to protect my kids.
A person who's been unsafe to me has now been reintroduced back into my life.
Yep.
And I think your anxiety made a lot of sense.
It was there to protect you, to protect all the versions of you, but also it became too much.
Yeah, it was affecting every part of my life.
Yeah.
And it you didn't need it all the time.
Like you were safe and the anxiety was still there.
Yes.
So I think that's a really important way to wrap up this episode.
I wanted to talk about our own struggles, just to let you know if you're listening to this that you're not alone, if you're having a hard time with
With your mental health, whether that's postpartum or any time in parenting or in life, and whether you're a man or whether you're a woman, it's okay to ask for help.
And sometimes asking for help, the first thing that we can do is just share our story with someone that we trust
and tell them what what's going on.
And if that person doesn't listen, go to somebody else and share your story with them.
If that person doesn't listen, share your story with someone else
Just because the first person you told that didn't validate your feelings or didn't understand what you're going through doesn't mean that nobody understands what you're going through
Yeah.
And not everyone's very good at dealing with someone else's story.
Like it can make you feel awkward too if you don't know how to handle it.
Yeah, a lot of the time it feels like maybe a friend or family is not dealing with it well, but they just don't know.
So I hope that that's a great takeaway and
Thank you guys so much for listening today.
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode
We are glad that you are here.
If you enjoyed today's episode and found it interesting, we'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and a review.
Scott and I actually sit down together and read them all
A five-star rating helps us share our podcast and get these important messages out there.
Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next time.