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Talking all things horticulture, ecology, and design.
00:00:05:00 00:00:33:02 Welcome to the Good Growing Podcast. I am Chris Enoth, horticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension, coming at you from Macomb, Illinois. And we have got a great show for you today, the old timey remedies. So these things that used to probably be more commonplace, in the garden. And every once in a while, you do still hear some of these being told or touted, for use in our modern gardens.
00:00:33:04 00:00:48:08 we're going to talk about these old timey things that people used to do. What the do they still do them recommended? Yes. No, no. Yes. Well, you know, I'm not doing this by myself. I'm joined, as always, every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville, hey Ken.
00:00:48:08 00:00:59:23 Hello, Chris. Yeah, I hope some of these people aren't doing any work because there's some some pretty interesting, techniques that we've come across.
00:01:00:00 00:01:23:22 Yes, some doozies, I'd say. that was probably get the cops called on you if you tried some of these these days, but you're violating the Geneva Convention for some of them, too. Yeah, I know, yeah. you definitely, definitely. So, Oh my goodness. We have got a, quite the list. And really, this is just a select few.
00:01:23:24 00:01:45:04 And and so I guess, you know, we could put the call out to our, our listeners and viewers, you know, if you know of other wild, wacky things that used to be done in the garden, maybe it's things that like your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, you know, you might hear some wild stuff that happened in the garden. yeah.
00:01:45:07 00:02:04:12 Throw those down below. And yeah, happy to see, take a look of some of these other wild things. I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot. Why why do you think people sprayed so much crazy stuff in their gardens way back when? Because everyone says, oh, let's go back to how it was, the old timey ways.
00:02:04:12 00:02:32:22 But we we have been trying to figure out or create pesticides since. Well, after reading some of this stuff forever, since agriculture started. Yeah, I think I ran across some stuff with 2000 BC, BCE, the oils and things like that. Since thousands and thousands of years we've been trying to kill bears. and in the past, that's been some pretty toxic stuff, you know, relatively speaking stuff.
00:02:32:22 00:02:53:05 Most of the stuff we're using today is, is much less toxic orders of magnitude less toxic than some of the stuff that's been used in the past. That's right. Yeah. so I think this is going to be it's going to be fun, you know, so Ken and I, we're going to be referencing a lot of different, you know, documents here.
00:02:53:05 00:03:17:23 So I guess bear with us if we need to, you know, pause and like read for a second to make sure we're getting all this as best, as accurate as we can. that, I don't know. Should we should we dive into this list, Ken? the first one here. Okay, let's do it. now, this is this first one is one is still used today.
00:03:18:00 00:03:23:07 I will admit to buying this thing. Actually, it's vinegar.
00:03:23:07 00:03:53:00 Straight up vinegar. An acid, something to burn plants. And I guess I could say in terms of modern day use, the vinegar is one that you can't just use your vinegar out of the the pantry. You have to go get, an herbicide oil, vinegar or something that that has been formulated for using outside on plants.
00:03:53:02 00:04:13:00 And it's really just a higher concentration of acid. I believe the stuff in our pantry is usually 5% or less, to be considered an herbicide or vinegar, it has to be greater than that, I believe. Oh, I might get this wrong with the herbicide or vinegar that, we tried here at our master Gardener garden.
00:04:13:02 00:04:38:24 something along the lines of, like, 30 to 50% acid. Now, that is something divided it 20 to 30, 20, 30. Thank you. Yes. So 20 to 30% acid. Yeah. 50%. That'd be crazy. but 20% acid. That's still hurts. You get that in your eye. You could cause permanent damage to your eye. You know, burns your skin.
00:04:39:09 00:05:09:07 you know, a lot of our master gardeners said, well, let's use this vinegar as opposed to something like glyphosate. You know, because glyphosate kills amphibians. I said, if this gets on a frog, it's going to kill the frog. Doesn't matter what you what it gets on. It's, it's the toxicity, the acute toxicity, that immediate toxicity is much higher when we're talking about or recital vinegar because it's such a potent acid.
00:05:09:09 00:05:26:12 but it is not systemic. So it only kills the tops of most of our plants. And and that's the activity that does. But is this is something that has been used since we figured out what vinegar was. And we're putting it on our salads back in the ancient Greek days, which that's what I'm picturing in my head.
00:05:26:14 00:05:45:21 You know, they're making their Greek salads and their togas and somebody actually pours it on a plant in the plant dies like, oh, but I'm sure is probably even before then that they were using vinegar. Yeah. You know, I think it isn't. Yeah. Important to stress that this is herbicide. All vinegar. There's a couple weeks ago I was driving.
00:05:46:01 00:05:49:05 Remember where I was, right? I saw somebody walking up their driveway with a
00:05:49:23 00:06:07:22 gallon of white vinegar. Is dumping it on plants and I didn't have time to stop, but just kind of, you know, good luck with it. I just wondered how those conversations would go. You know what? Hi. I'm a trained horticulturist. What you're doing is not a great idea.
00:06:07:23 00:06:16:08 I don't want to be that person, but I don't either. Yeah, so I usually keep my mouth shut, even. Even when maybe I should say something. But I don't.
00:06:16:08 00:06:26:21 yeah. That old, old timey thing. Something that's been used for a while. Vinegar. All right. The next one, we've got and we've talked about this one in the past.
00:06:26:22 00:06:31:05 We probably don't need to beat a dead horse here, but, pruning tires and paints, so
00:06:31:18 00:06:47:08 I don't know how how long this has been going on, at least probably early 1900s, if not longer than that, using some kind of tar, oil based product, what have you to paint the wounds on trees once they've been pruned?
00:06:47:14 00:06:55:12 The idea is that's going to prevent any kind of pathogens or anything insects from getting into there and damaging that, that newly pruned area
00:06:55:18 00:06:57:08 so the plant can seal off,
00:06:57:17 00:06:59:08 and heal itself.
00:06:59:08 00:07:22:07 there's been not countless studies done on this where that actually those paints, those tar, whatever you're using can actually inhibit that healing process. if you get any moisture trapped in there, any fungal spores or anything like that, now you've created a perfect environment because it's nice and moist. They're trapped in there with their food source and you can get rot and stuff in there just as easily.
00:07:22:19 00:07:40:11 so nowadays, and that one we would recommend, I think in the past it had been, widely recommended, but not anymore. The one exception to that would be like oak trees, if you're pruning those during the growing season, when those, beetles are potentially out, especially in the spring,
00:07:40:21 00:07:45:07 seal that off sooner, moving the oak oil and things like that into the trees.
00:07:45:07 00:07:48:23 But that's that's the exception to the rule nowadays.
00:07:48:23 00:08:12:01 yeah. That you got, those tree wounds. You know, we feel like when a human gets a wound, we got to cover that puppy up. Tree ruins. They need oxygen to to for those cells to seal that wound off. So, Yeah, only in that one instance. As Ken mentioned, when you're pruning that oak tree during the, kind of beginning the middle part of the growing season.
00:08:12:14 00:08:39:11 Well, and this next one is one that I hear still a lot. and that is Epsom salts. Now, Epsom salts. they were discovered, I think, in, like, the Epsom Springs in England. that's where their name comes from. But they're really magnesium sulfide. Sulfide, sulfate. It's sulfate. It's sulfate. Can I wrote it down right here and I still messed it up.
00:08:39:15 00:08:45:11 Magnesium sulfate, MG so4. That's what it is.
00:08:45:11 00:09:18:11 So the absence salts, that is something where most extension folks these days are saying, you know, it's best to leave this as the foot soak, not necessarily for your plants. because really, what that would provide would be magnesium. So if your soil test reveals that you are low in magnesium, well, then maybe you could use some Epsom salts to perk up that soil, and to supply that nutrient that that could be missing.
00:09:18:11 00:09:23:00 But do a soil test to figure out if that's even the case.
00:09:23:09 00:09:31:02 And you get sulfur to it. That's there's more efficient ways of getting sulfur to plants. And I'm not sure that's really one that.
00:09:31:02 00:09:48:18 Or two terribly deficient with. Yeah. Usually no I've never really seen a soil test. And seen it deficient in magnesium. I mean it could be possible, but, yeah, it not very common in Illinois at least.
00:09:48:20 00:10:07:08 So yeah, it's another one of those, you know, it, you know, probably was used a long time ago and maybe it worked for somebody. And then it just sort of caught on from there. though it really is not something that is needed. Save your money, save your time.
00:10:07:08 00:10:13:23 It was it. magnesium deficiency are a lot of times because of soils too acidic.
00:10:14:02 00:10:21:03 So yeah, raising that liming may rectify that situation too. Yeah,
00:10:21:22 00:10:22:19 All right.
00:10:23:05 00:10:25:08 Next one we've got is eggshells.
00:10:25:23 00:10:37:08 I think eggshells is one of those has been recommended for all kinds of things. You know increasing calcium. I've seen stuff on helping to keep slugs out. If you grind it up, make it into little shards. Makes it too prickly,
00:10:37:22 00:10:40:01 for them.
00:10:40:01 00:10:40:23 and while, yes,
00:10:40:23 00:10:47:00 there's a lot of calcium and eggshells, again, that's another one we've talked about multiple times.
00:10:47:02 00:10:55:01 you know that a calcium is is tied up in those eggshells. It's not going to be released quickly. It's going to take some time for that to break down and be released into the soil. So
00:10:55:01 00:11:02:13 maybe eventually, your plants can take it up where you have to grind it up into a fine powder, and even then, it's going to take some time, to release that.
00:11:02:13 00:11:12:14 So again, there's like Epsom salts. There's more efficient ways of getting, calcium and stuff into your soil, into the plants, that need it. And again, I think in
00:11:12:24 00:11:15:12 a lot of cases, especially in gardens,
00:11:16:00 00:11:23:13 it's probably not too many situations where we're getting calcium deficient in our soils. in Illinois. Yeah, it's probably
00:11:24:03 00:11:27:16 pH issue, water issue in the case of possum and run,
00:11:28:07 00:11:30:17 you know, is calcium actually the cause of blossom.
00:11:30:17 00:11:35:09 And there's debate to that as well. And then with the slugs
00:11:35:09 00:11:41:24 and I, they crawl over sand and stuff and that doesn't bother them. I'm not sure eggshells
00:11:41:24 00:11:48:15 would do a whole lot of good, but that slime trailing slime stuff up and and crawl right over it. So again, that's
00:11:48:23 00:12:01:10 there's other ways, you know, making that habitat less hospitable to slugs, one way mulch then to dry out some, there's insecticides you can use, as well.
00:12:01:10 00:12:08:11 So again, other ways they're going to be more better at managing slugs then and crumbling opaque shells and put those on the ground.
00:12:08:11 00:12:24:15 Yeah. and I'd say very often you can. You mentioned that calcium is usually plentiful in Illinois soils. And a lot of like cultivated situations, whether it's fruit and vegetable gardens, could be landscape beds. Why don't we have an overabundance of calcium?
00:12:24:15 00:12:46:15 Because calcium is a major component in lots of different fertilizers, or maybe not major, but it is a component in lots of different fertilizers. And so there's a lot of fertilizers out there. When you read those molecular formulas, very often you can find calcium in there. And especially when you're in like, like a controlled growing setting, like a greenhouse or a high tunnel.
00:12:46:20 00:13:17:11 And you have just been injecting those fertilizers into that soil over and over again constantly for years. You wind up getting a, immense buildup of calcium to the point where it becomes toxic to the plants. You have way too much calcium in your in your soil. And so, yeah, soil tests most definitely. And if by chance you really are low on calcium, though there is one trick you could try.
00:13:17:13 00:13:44:03 this is from so Ken and I were referencing a book by Jeff Gillman, Truth about Garden Remedies. and he talks about if you really, really are actually deficient in calcium, you could boil eggshells like 11 or 12 egg shells. You could boil them and you could take about two cups of that water. And there is plant available calcium now in that water.
00:13:44:05 00:14:03:09 And you could put them in there. Maybe it works for like container plans or something like that. So it is possible to extract that calcium out of eggshells whether you boil them or you just use the natural type of soil to break it down. But that takes like a year or more. So yes, they can add calcium to the soil.
00:14:03:11 00:14:31:03 You probably don't need it. And oh. And so I've been going down so many rabbit holes recently. Can we talk about blossom and rot a lot, don't we? It's right now, at least every year. I just read this. If this great study about how it's a 2011 study and they had this was all in a controlled setting, not in the ground, not in soil, but in containers, in a greenhouse.
00:14:31:05 00:15:05:11 But they took a calcium deficient a potting mix, had tomatoes in one and then tomatoes in another with one as their control. They just watered with straight up water and the other they watered. But then they also sprayed an AB, a plant hormone ABC acid. ABA is helps in regulating water flow in plant vessels, and they found that their control had oh I'm going to get it wrong.
00:15:05:14 00:15:32:15 But I'll put a link to this article down below. Like 40% of their tomatoes had about were were showing blossom in rot in their ABA treatment. No blossom in rot. So the plant hormone ABA helped in move ING water throughout that plant tissue even. And the plants didn't develop blossom and rot even though there was a deficient a calcium deficient soil that was growing.
00:15:32:15 00:15:48:02 And, fascinating stuff. So it's that water. That's why we keep saying it's about water movement in the plants, mulch your soil, keep the soil evenly watered throughout the year. You'll reduce your chances of blossom and rot.
00:15:48:08 00:16:04:02 Anyway, sorry, I got really carried away there. And so all of what's the reasons like calm down, calm down, just blossom and rot. Science. Science is so much fun.
00:16:04:19 00:16:26:08 Well, I might I might go overboard with this one too. Ken. so this next one does old timey remedy. probably one of my favorite ones that we're talking about today. I'll say this. This is the one that prompted the whole episode. So. Exactly. Yeah. I'm like, can we gotta figure out what people are doing? Way back when I needed an excuse to talk about this.
00:16:26:10 00:16:53:06 That's right. Yeah. So dynamite, apparently that used to be, more of a popular thing way back when. and so I, I wanted to share. We have this article here. I've had this article pulled up for months here on my computer. just kind of waiting to use it. And this article comes from the 1920, edition of the Landscape Architecture magazine.
00:16:53:06 00:17:02:04 So July 1920. So, almost a over 100 years ago, this was, published. So
00:17:02:04 00:17:18:17 and really, what they are focused on with this article is using dynamite to transplant and then plant shrubs, trees, and in some cases turf grass.
00:17:18:17 00:17:27:08 and I'm guessing this because it was the 1920s heavy equipment or just your run of the mill garden tiller weren't all too common.
00:17:27:10 00:17:41:04 So how are you going to bust up the soil and break that up without heavy equipment? Well, you just blow it up and, I, I think this is pretty fascinating topic.
00:17:41:13 00:18:11:04 How much are they using? All right. There's like six. So, I I'll just have to read this. to you guys. So, here's what they do. So they were going to transplant, a hedge of shrubs. these shrubs were a height of 12 to 14ft. They had a large spreading root system, and it was estimated it was going to cost about $200 because they were so large.
00:18:11:07 00:18:34:12 So they decided instead of paying people to dig these up and all that physical labor, let's blast them out with dynamite. So the theory was it was going to shake all the soil off the roots, and you're going to get those plants out in better shape than if they were dug out by hand. So they bore down inch and a half diameter holes.
00:18:34:16 00:18:56:06 They went down 18in deep. and they placed them around each plant at about four points. and they were about a foot and a half away from the plant. That's not very far, if you think about it. and they used an eighth of a pound of dynamite per hole. They so they, they took the drilled the hole.
00:18:56:08 00:19:23:22 And in that hole, they tamped down one eighth of a pound dynamite. So I don't really know the how that translates into that physical force, that explosive force. But one eighth, if you think about an entire stick of dynamite, that would be like one eighth of that. Here's how it fared. So according to this article from Landscape Architecture magazine in 1920, they said this idea worked out better than had been hoped.
00:19:23:24 00:19:50:00 The roots were not badly torn or broken after the blast. The plants were easily dug out, and it costs an average of $0.30 to take up each shrub, as opposed to the $200 for each one, not for each one for the for them total. So I'll say that a I did a currency conversion. So $200 in 1920 was well over $3,100 in today's money.
00:19:50:02 00:20:02:05 Oh my gosh, that's more than cutting a tree down. Today is a $0.20 per tree. Now, $0.30 to take up each shrub. So $0.30.
00:20:02:11 00:20:37:04 In 1920, money to. 2024 is $4.71 according to this calculator. So you know let's compare $4 versus 3000. That's that's a lot of money saved in the return on investment there. so it continues. They now have all these shrubs blown up out of the ground. They have to replant them. Well, they thought they were going to have to dig this big wide trench was going to cost a lot of labor.
00:20:37:04 00:21:02:17 So to avoid all that labor, they had some extra dynamite lying around and they just blew holes in the ground. And they then just easily dug out that loose soil for that one. They used one sixth of a pound of dynamite to plant each shrub, and it would cost about $0.10. A plant. So we're probably talking what, a dollar a plant.
00:21:02:17 00:21:05:14 They're almost $1.50 a plant.
00:21:06:01 00:21:19:16 So the total cost including labor taking them up and replanting was approximately $0.55 a plant or a $110 for the entire job.
00:21:20:06 00:21:50:21 So $110 is well over $1,700 in today's money. That's so you're saving about half. You're saving like half your your costs there. and they said not a plant was injured by the blasting. So therefore they all survived. And, they're transplanting. I mean, just imagine if you could go to your local garden center and there were just, like, sticks of dynamite on the wall and.
00:21:50:23 00:21:58:10 Yeah, that would be, you would need a special license to garden. I think.
00:21:58:12 00:22:00:09 And definitely be more eventful. And
00:22:01:03 00:22:28:19 exciting. for sure. But there's more can there's more to this dynamite story. So this next section of the article talks about rejuvenating trees and lawn using dynamite. And so the idea here is that they were going to use dynamite to break up hard soil. So in a circle around this tree, they bore holes about four feet deep.
00:22:28:21 00:22:57:03 And in each hole they put down one quarter pound, of dynamite. So we're talking about a little bit more here, than what we use with the shrubs, the owner. So they describe how the owner here was afraid that the blasting would damage the lawn. But after the shots, the only effect apparent was the formation of little mounds of earth, 2 to 3in high at the top of the boring holes.
00:22:57:05 00:23:22:23 Three months after the blasting and improvement began to be noticed in the the. These were willow trees. The leaves, which had been very yellow, changed to a bright and healthy green. The pines, which the previous year had been, grown only four inches. By the end of the first month, they had grown over 12in. Now, after they had been blasted, and the lawn had previously been all right so long as frequent rains would occur.
00:23:23:00 00:23:49:08 but it could not withstand any dryness. It would quickly decline and it would get all these cracks and stuff. You know what a typical lawn gets? they showed that the lawn was treated then, by putting down holes, they were 12ft apart, three feet deep, each one loaded with a quarter pound of charge of dynamite. Tamp that in, blew up their lawn.
00:23:49:10 00:24:09:07 And it was noted during the first rain that fill the ground, absorb the rain much better than previously. And, later in the year when it dried out, no cracks or fissures formed, and the long grass did not become yellow and brown as it had done before. So the lawn even looked better.
00:24:09:07 00:24:20:16 so I, I and as they're talking about this, as if they're, they are improving the compaction of the soil, which I think is is definitely a possibility.
00:24:20:18 00:24:43:01 But what else is in dynamite that might help plants to, you know, can some nitrogen in there. Yeah baby there's some nitrogen in that dynamite. You know, before World War Two, we had all we we made all these explosives. And then now after World War two, we didn't know what to do with all these explosive. And they said, hey, let's start throwing them on the ground.
00:24:43:03 00:25:14:21 Apparently there's nitrogen in there, which are plants need. And so as, and and you it's not I don't think it's specifically stated in this article about the nitrogen component, but you can go and review other articles. Modern and historic, about the release of nitrogen during these early times when people were using dynamite to revive plants so it would release nitrogen in into the soil, in addition to maybe, you know, easing compaction.
00:25:14:23 00:25:34:24 And so imagine all that energy, all that nitrogen POW in your ground, and then the plants get a big old boost to that. so there's yeah, there's two, two and maybe a few other things happening here with dynamite. So I, I yeah. And kind of the last section here is how they use it to revive an old hedge.
00:25:35:01 00:26:03:02 and in the suburbs of Philadelphia, hemlock spruce hedge, 18ft high, 300ft long, had been neglected. And, you know, they thought they could speed up the ground, but as in their words, it would merely loosen up one foot of earth and cause the essence of the fertilizer to be used up in the foot of this ground. which I love how they wrote back then far better than we write or speak today.
00:26:03:04 00:26:27:20 and it was finally decided to place one half stick. So now we're up to a half a stick of dynamite every ten foot along this hedge. the shots replace four foot from the main stem of the plant, one on each side. So you have a, you know, four foot away from each side of the plant. You got a half a half a thing of dynamite, in the ground.
00:26:27:22 00:26:51:18 tight tamping was used to keep the effect down in the ground. and then they top dressed with, manure off to a depth of six inches at the end of the second year is almost impossible to see, though. What was once a straggly hedge. if dynamite had not been used, it would probably have taken three times as long to get the fertilizer down to the roots.
00:26:51:20 00:27:15:19 And so it sounds like the hedge looked much better the next year. If I'm translating their 1920s English, which the same English I use. So I kind of wanted to get some dynamite. Now I know, don't you? It's like I wonder what I could do with some dynamite. other than get the caps called on end up on so much less probably.
00:27:15:19 00:27:29:11 Yeah. It's like, I swear I'm just gardening for, But that's a fun one. It's a fun article to read. yeah. Well, I'll leave a link to that one below in the show. description.
00:27:30:04 00:27:33:20 Maybe we need to get a grant so we can look at DNA
00:27:34:13 00:27:53:00 exploding stuff with or without nitrogen. And if there's an explosive that don't have nitrogen in them. But I'm willing to find out and see what happens. I don't know if I want to start searching for that. no. And then go to a public computer somewhere where there's no cameras.
00:27:53:02 00:27:54:08 So.
00:27:54:08 00:28:12:03 All right. I don't think the last ones we have, we can kind of lump all these together. We've got old timey ways of killing stuff. So I think in our case, what we're looking at, insects. I think one of these contain is for, they're using it for powdery mildew. I think,
00:28:12:03 00:28:18:09 so yeah. So like we mentioned earlier, a lot of times we, we talk about pest control back in the day and I you know, that's all I ideal.
00:28:18:11 00:28:20:00 And they didn't do anything but.
00:28:20:00 00:28:37:14 There's some there's some gnarly stuff. So one which I don't know if you can still get nicotine sulfate. I don't know if that's still I think it's illegal now, but I don't think you can buy that. But until relatively recently we'll say you could get it. So,
00:28:38:01 00:28:43:19 for some of this stuff, some kind of not you should not be doing this.
00:28:43:19 00:28:44:01 But,
00:28:44:12 00:28:58:01 one recommendation was from a book from 1915. steep 5 pounds of tobacco stems in three gallons of water for three hours. strain the tobacco stems off and load the mixture with enough water to make seven gallons of spray.
00:28:58:13 00:29:04:12 and then you'd apply that to your plants. So the the active ingredient nicotine in there, is a stimulant.
00:29:04:12 00:29:12:13 So basically that it over stimulates nerves and the insects and it and stuff would go into convulsions, and die because of this.
00:29:13:01 00:29:26:07 so that was applied to plants. You know, it's also very toxic to humans as well, which is why you can no longer find it, at least in the United States. Yes, it stimulates insects and it also stimulates humans.
00:29:26:07 00:29:38:09 So it works on us too. So it's be careful with that stuff. That's why you get addicted to it. but this is much higher concentrations than what you would be. It should be smoking or chewing.
00:29:38:20 00:29:41:20 another thing with this, I came across to some places that,
00:29:43:02 00:30:04:02 tobacco mosaic virus can survive in this. So if you're steeping this and I had a professor in grad school who would talk about they would get cigarets from Russia or the Soviet Union, and they would always be for tobacco mosaic virus, because even after the curing and stuff, the virus was still in that tobacco.
00:30:04:19 00:30:08:15 so if you're making this, that virus can then get into that spray. And if you're applying this to
00:30:09:07 00:30:34:13 tomatoes, the peppers, other someone else's crops that this virus can infect, you've now sprayed this virus all over it. And those plants can then be infected. So that's another risk, of applying, at least this homemade, these homemade concoctions, using tobacco that you could potentially spread this virus as well if you're using, tobacco that's been infected with tobacco mosaic virus.
00:30:35:06 00:30:44:00 I think we need to get a, a historic plant pathologist on the show to talk about tobacco mosaic virus. It's a fascinating virus. An ancient virus.
00:30:44:00 00:31:04:12 So another one, came across is called, Forsyth's composition. this is from William Forsyth, who was a, gardener, back in the 1700s. He was King George the third, gardener as well, and renowned as one of the greatest plants men of his time.
00:31:05:00 00:31:29:18 And as an aside, forsythia. The James forsythia is named after him. So, still. So talk about him today. Indirectly. so his concoction that he was making, as a, as a pesticide consisted of one bushel of cow dung, one bushel of lime, rubbish from old buildings, half a bushel of wood ash, 1/16 bushel of river sand.
00:31:29:20 00:31:41:08 this mixture was finally sifted and mixed with urine or soapy water until it was the consistency of paint. At this point it would be applied, to to the plant that was trying to be protected.
00:31:41:21 00:31:53:04 then after application, I recommendation that a dry powder containing wood ash and bone ash in a ratio of 6 to 1 should be dusted over it.
00:31:53:06 00:32:05:05 And this was supposed to correct problems with insect infestations, as well as considered especially good for covering tree wounds. So there's another treatment possibility for you here.
00:32:05:05 00:32:18:03 So yeah. Stay away from that was a bug. I'd stay away from that plant. Yeah. If they were spraying that on their bushes. Cow dung. Yes. So this was from 1791.
00:32:18:04 00:32:35:19 This came from. So back. Say back then back near 1700s and hundreds and probably earlier to, kind of, one of the prevailing thought was that the stronger the odor something had, the better it would be at repelling pests. but I don't know, a pest on necessarily. Smell the smell. But
00:32:36:03 00:32:39:23 the the smells that we find offensive, they may not necessarily find offensive.
00:32:39:23 00:33:05:03 So, I'm not sure. Probably not. Not doing, a whole lot for you. It's going to smell really bad. yeah, I'd say just don't do it. Probably not a good idea. Now, you know, here's another one. This was from 1849.
00:33:05:03 00:33:11:17 from a book titled The Spraying of Plants, which is written in 1906.
00:33:11:19 00:33:16:15 they talk about this particular concoction, which is even worse than the first one.
00:33:17:02 00:33:44:13 so one hectoliter, which is 26.4 gallons of urine added to 25l or 6.6 gallons of pigeon dung. And this is then fermented for 48 hours, at which point one kilogram or 2.2 pounds of aconite branches, also known as maqsood, was added along with four liters or 3.8 gallons of water, and this was applied, to the leaves to prevent mildew.
00:33:44:13 00:33:56:01 So this was recommend in 1849 was intended to provide a cure for mildew on peaches. But this simple, simple single application made in April.
00:33:56:19 00:34:24:11 Said that pigeon poop. Do you know how dirty birds bird poop is what we do today. But I guess they didn't know that back then. My gosh. And and urine and let it ferment for 48 hours. So you can just imagine what that would smell like. spray it on your peaches. Oh, baby, that would be, would you like some peach cobbler?
00:34:24:11 00:34:47:17 No, thank you. So I guess, you know, so with powdery mildew, that's one of those. One of the. Well, obviously the only disease, but there's maybe others out there, but that's a disease where it doesn't actually like moisture on the leaves of plants. So this it does well on really humid conditions. But if you have free water and water sitting on the leaves, powdery mildew doesn't really do all the well, doesn't really affect plants or gets washed off and
00:34:48:05 00:34:48:13 and stuff.
00:34:48:13 00:35:01:14 So it could potentially protect it from that because you're just washing it off and making those leaves wet. But let's say the potential human pathogens you're introducing, are outweigh any benefit. Now, if you're doing this in April.
00:35:02:07 00:35:24:12 I think maybe it's out of there, but still don't do it. Just spraying it on on you probably getting it on yourself. I imagine there's spray equipment back in the 1800s was not a, not as sophisticated as today. And today I still, if I'm spraying some, I still get stuff that falls back on. Yeah. So, Yes.
00:35:24:13 00:35:30:01 So don't do that one. and then our last one and these are a little more,
00:35:30:10 00:35:36:10 you know, again, old timey, but even into the 1900s, people were using these. So a lot of insecticides contained arsenic.
00:35:37:01 00:35:40:22 lead arsenate was was an ingredient in a lot of things,
00:35:41:12 00:35:46:04 mercury in the form of red oxide of mercury or mercury to oxide.
00:35:46:06 00:36:03:17 all of which are these are, incredibly toxic and not safe. so, you know, we we talk about, you know, modern day insecticides being much, much less toxic, quote unquote, safer, than the older ones, because a lot of these had these heavy metals in there that are,
00:36:04:04 00:36:12:12 that are very toxic. and, you know, applying those, you constantly applying those, those are then in the soil and they don't go away.
00:36:12:12 00:36:24:14 And, and all this, not only, you know, that toxicity, acute chronic toxicity, but that the potential that to build up in soils, as well. So back in the day,
00:36:25:00 00:36:47:06 controlling pests wasn't as probably as idyllic and, you know, rainbows and butterflies as we like to think a lot of times. But it can and I, we were just describing like, you know, a lot of people had to grow food to live not terribly long ago over 100 years ago, probably.
00:36:47:08 00:37:16:20 And, you were desperate to get food, so you had to spray stuff. You had to control pests so that you yourself wouldn't starve. And maybe the the immediate risk, of starving outweighed the. Let's just throw whatever we can at this. I don't know what it does, but we'll see what happens. We have to eat. So spray cow dung and pigeon poop and all this stuff on their plants.
00:37:16:20 00:37:38:22 And. Yeah, see what works? Yeah, I'm looking at some of these older ones, too. There's a lot of copper which is still used today, as a fungicide. So, so some of these we're still probably not the exact same formulations with some of these chemicals or compounds were still using to some extent. Now soaps and oils. That's right.
00:37:38:22 00:38:01:09 Other we've talked about like dish soap. That's probably a little more of a modern one, but yeah that's effective on it can be effective in controlling pests, but it also can be very effective. It. So the soap is removing that kind of waxy cuticle, on insects which causes them to dry out. Well, plants also have that waxy cuticle, that can also be removed from the plants when you're using stuff like dish soap, because it's much.
00:38:01:11 00:38:17:03 But a lot of times it's a lot stronger than the insecticidal stuff, sort of using dish soap on plants. A lot of times you're getting a lot of plant damage as well, because those soaps are removing that wax not only from the insects, but from the plants you're trying to protect, too. So
00:38:17:17 00:38:29:15 while dish soap is, cheaper than the insecticidal soaps, spend the extra couple dollars, and get the stuff that's actually intended to be used on plants and the like.
00:38:29:16 00:38:34:04 I say, you're not going to have any plan damage. but you will less likely to have plant damage, especially if you
00:38:34:15 00:38:55:01 read and follow the label directions. That's the key. Yeah. I, had a person they sprayed that it was an oil in this case, and they had aphids and they sprayed that oil and they thought it was a horticultural oil labeled, you know, it was intended to be straight on plants.
00:38:55:03 00:39:22:02 They said, well, I sprayed the amount, but I just dumped the whole thing on there because I just figured, you know, more is better. And they killed their plants. So, yeah, they I think it in oil. is it the opposite of soap, where it actually covers and coats the insect? and in this case also the the leaves and the stomata, the air exchange opening of the leaves.
00:39:22:02 00:39:32:07 And it just kind of smothers them. There's it kind of that flip side of that. Yeah. Basically clogs up the spirit oils how they breathe. And there's different types of oils too. So there's dormant oils which are a little,
00:39:33:00 00:39:49:01 I guess you could say a little thicker. and there's summer oils which are more refined. because if some of those oils, if you get in real hot temperature in warm, warmer, hot temperatures or a lot of sun, that can cause plant damage even though they're labeled frozen plants, those dormant oils need to be used.
00:39:49:14 00:40:16:02 But as before, plants start leafing out because it can damage clean tissues. Yeah. Oh, fascinating. And, you know, as you're saying, that can here's just a random good growing tip of the day. You cannot burn plants with water. Just say it can't do that. It's not possible. That's when it's boiling water. Well don't don't put boiling water on there.
00:40:16:02 00:40:33:09 But I, I hear a lot of folks say, well, I can't water my plant in the middle of the day when it's sunshine and it's going to burn it like, no, you can't burn it with water. you it will evaporate before it ever gets that hot. So don't you worry. Doesn't concentrate. The sun is that much. Exactly.
00:40:33:09 00:40:52:06 Yes. Now, boiling water is another old. Well, is it an old timey trick? Because, yeah, it might have been, but a lot of people use it today and, you know, then they burn their feet or their hands as they're trying to carry that water out patio and kill some weeds in the cracks, say, and that'd be similar to vinegar that's going to kill your tap growth, but not necessarily
00:40:52:06 00:40:54:18 kill the roots.
00:40:54:20 00:41:02:20 maybe for seedling of established plants will probably. Yeah, laugh at you and send out something else. Yep.
00:41:03:12 00:41:21:23 Well that was a lot of great information about some of those old tricks. If we could even call them tricks. I feel like it's almost a trick on the gardener in this case of spraying cow poop on your, your peaches to, yeah.
00:41:21:23 00:41:39:06 To cure disease and stuff. But but yeah, a lot of great information about old timey garden things that. Oh, it was a good idea that they stayed back there in history, you know, there's probably a reason why we don't, you know, bleed people when they have a head cold anymore. It's because we figured out that doesn't really help them.
00:41:39:06 00:42:07:00 So, yeah. Thank goodness for science. Yeah. I'm so excited for it. But I do kind of wish maybe we had a little bit more dynamite in the garden centers. we'll have to wait some time. Well, the good growing podcast is production of University of Illinois Extension, edited this week by Ken Johnson. Thank you, Ken, for both editing and being with me here today to chat about these old timey garden hack tricks, things, etcetera that that we should not necessarily be doing.
00:42:07:02 00:42:09:03 so thick skin.
00:42:09:03 00:42:17:07 Yes. Thank you. And now, let's try not to end up on any watch lists for dynamite and explosive searches.
00:42:17:07 00:42:30:19 Exactly. Use in the garden. And, let's do this again next week. The whole. We shall do this again next week. Oh my goodness. Gardening season. Here it comes. It's this feel like the doors closing on me.
00:42:30:19 00:42:43:21 The windows about shut. We still have time though folks. We still got time. Got more episodes coming at you. So listeners, thank you for doing what you do best. And that is listening. Or if you're watching us on YouTube watching. And as always, keep on growing.
00:42:47:01 00:42:48:21 Another.
00:42:53:19 00:43:05:17 keep the lid on that one. Then again, don't tell anybody. You two listeners don't tell anyone the secret secrets. Okay, Kendall said secret.
00:43:05:19 00:43:21:06 Is it safe? to have Samwise Gamgee? Have you been eavesdropping? Right. This devolves into a Lord of the rings fan cast.
00:43:21:06 00:43:27:02 forgot. So it's also the big one. Sorry, everyone. We forgot salt. Next time. Salt