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"Building the Base" - an in-depth series of conversations with top entrepreneurs, innovators, and leaders from tech, financial, industrial, and public sectors.
Our special guests provide their unique perspectives on a broad selection of topics such as: shaping our future national security industrial base, the impact of disruptive technologies, how new startups can increasingly contribute to national security, and practical tips on leadership and personal development whether in government or the private sector.
Building the Base is hosted by Lauren Bedula, is Managing Director and National Security Technology Practice Lead at Beacon Global Strategies, and the Honorable Jim "Hondo" Geurts who retired from performing the duties of the Under Secretary of the Navy and was the former Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development & Acquisition and Acquisition Executive at United States Special Operations Command.
Lauren Bedula 00:23
Welcome back to Building the Base, Hondo Geurts and Lauren Bedula here with today's guests Nilooofar Razi Howe. Thank you so much for joining us. Niloo is a prominent investor, executive and entrepreneur who in my opinion was focused on cybersecurity before cybersecurity and has had incredible experience in the space we like to focus on, which is the intersection between the private sector and the US government, including serving on a couple of different US government advisory boards.
So Niloo, thank you so much for joining us today.
NilooFar Razi Howe 00:54
Thank you for inviting me, it's a bucket list item to be here with both of you today.
Hondo Geurts 00:59
I say for most guests, they have the most interesting background in the world. But I think you actually may have the most interesting background of the world. So, I always ask, how does somebody like you wind up in the roles you've got now? How'd you get involved in all this?
NilooFar Razi Howe 01:17
So, as a kid, I went through a revolution and bounced around a few countries. And that taught me to do two things. One is to context shift very quickly. And the second is to know that I was going to be okay. And therefore, taking risk is okay. So, all that, you know, I learned new languages, new cultures, adapting to folks, new sort of social environments, making a lot of mistakes as a kid, and realizing that even if you make the mistakes, you can make it through. So, I feel like what my childhood taught me is basically, a Churchill quote, which is success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm.
Lauren Bedula 02:04
It's an incredible background. And I know you talked about how you were drawn to cybersecurity, maybe before we knew we should be focused on it. And technology, generally speaking, what is it about those fields that drew you in as far as interest?
NilooFar Razi Howe 02:18
So, I was a venture capitalist in Southern California when 9/11 happened. And again, I'm an immigrant, and I couldn't fight for that country, because I was young. On that day, I woke up, and I was an adult, and I decided what, you know, the question I asked myself is, what can I do? What can I do to make sure this country is okay, this great country that took me in and gave me all the opportunities is going to be okay. What I knew was strategy and technology and investing. What I didn't know at the time was national security. So, I decided to see if there was any way I could bring those two things together, because there hadn't been much technology innovation in the national security space. And what was very clear to me at the time is in 9/11, proved it out. Our vulnerabilities are in the private sector. And our infrastructure is in the private sector. So, we have to figure out how to defend the private sector, as much as you know, we figure out how to protect government, etc.
Lauren Bedula 03:17
What did that journey look like? Had you been in touch with the US government at all? Or do you pick up the phone and reach out to someone? Or how does one go about doing that?
NilooFar Razi Howe 03:25
Let's see, I submitted my resume through the White House website did not get a phone call. Then I started calling everybody I knew and said, you know, what can I do to serve? I was born and raised in Iran. So, I'm a fluent Farsi speaker. At the time, I thought maybe that could sort of help. But it turned out that I was put in touch with General Ken Minihan, former director of the NSA, and general Minihan was raising a fund with Lee Buchanan, the former deputy director of DARPA, and Alf Andreassen, who was with AT&T Bell Labs. And what they understood was national security. What they'd never done was invest in technology and startups. And so, when we met, it was like this perfect marriage of non-overlapping skill sets. And it was absolutely amazing to come together and find a way to use everything else that I learned toward a national security mission.
Hondo Geurts 04:26
That's an incredible story. What was the takeaway when you first got together? Was it there being more overlaps between the two communities and people understood or, you know, what was your going in thesis because again, back then investing in national security was not a hot thing. In fact, it was somewhat shunned, I would say by many in the venture community.
NilooFar Razi Howe 04:50
Yeah, we were definitely I think the first to really focus on it from a venture capital perspective. The entire fund was focused on Homeland Security. And what we talked about is what we invested in was dual use technology. So, technology that primarily had application in the private sector, but also could have application in, in government. I mean, I think I lucked out, because I was working with some of the most amazing people who were also advocates for women. You know, when I was coming in to run a fund, you know, West Coast LA person coming to DC, actually, it was funny. Our first meeting, I was it was a meeting I was running on the investment team. And the meeting started Tuesday at 8am. I got there being from LA at 8:01. And General Minihan, had finished the meeting at 7:50am. So, I kind of learned that, you know, the Washington DC, especially military folks maybe operate on a different timescale, then west coast, LA people, but we had tremendous respect for each other. And for the different skill sets, we understood, where each of us had strengths, and each of us had blind spots, and we worked really collaboratively.
Hondo Geurts 06:10
Yeah, this idea of mutual respect, you know, you're coming from different places, but having mutual respect from where people come from is a really, really important element, I think, in these intersections. And what did you bring to them? What was what was the Oh yeah moments that you brought to them…..at 8:01, after the meeting had already ended.
NilooFar Razi Howe 06:32
I think they understood how passionate I was about it. You know, the first time I met with them, I got on a phone call, let's say on a Monday, by Tuesday morning, I was in their office, and it was actually Thanksgiving week, I was like, No, I'm coming out. This is great. This is what I want to do. And I'm not going to take no for an answer. So, I had a background in strategy in business and in technology. Like I said, I knew nothing about national security. But the innovation ecosystem didn't exist in national security. So, I knew the learning curve was going to be big, but I love challenging learning curves and thought, hey, maybe I can do this.
Lauren Bedula 07:11
So, what's your take on the past almost 25 years, but post 9/11, you saw an opportunity to try to strengthen the drive of private capital towards disruptive technology for the purpose of national security. I'd say that dialogue hasn't really hit a peak until the past five years, or there's a lot more interest now. Especially because you had that post Snowden world where it was even, I'd say more separated in terms of trust or this mutual respect that that you speak of? Can you talk about the trends over the past two decades and where we stand today, in that sense.
NilooFar Razi Howe 07:50
I love to the role that technology innovation plays today, in areas that used to be uniquely the purview of government is growing in importance every year. So, if you look at the Russia, Ukraine war, for example, whether it's commercial space technology, whether it's information, threat, intelligence information, whether it's the infrastructure and how you protect the infrastructure, the private sector is basically behaving as a non-state entity that is doing operations with the US government and with the Ukrainian government. And this is going to actually, I think, get bigger over time. When, if you think about the last 20-30 years, even with the internet revolution, we had decades to adapt to the internet. We didn't get it right. But we did have decades to try to get it right. If you go to the history of technology, evolution, start with the printing press, we had 300 years to adapt to the printing press, we had 200 years to adapt to the agriculture to the agricultural revolution, we had 100 years to adapt to the Industrial Revolution, you know, 50 years adapt to the tech revolution and 20 years adapt to the information revolution. Today, we have multiple revolutions happening simultaneously. So, whether you're talking about synthetic biology, or AI or quantum, are you talking about ubiquitous sensing or robotics and drones are new energy or information warfare, they are happening at the same time, and they are exceeding our ability even as humans to adapt. But what's even more interesting is where they intersect those exponential revolutions. Right? Put AI and Info Wars together, put advanced materials and computational biology together. Those exponential revolutions require a completely different way of thinking about how we operate in the US government and those innovations are going to come from the private sector. So how the US government works with the private sector is going to have to change historically, tech companies had to figure out how to get into the procurement process. How to sell it took years to do it huge investment, you may or may not get it right. When I look forward, it's no longer about private sector figuring out how to work with the US government, the US government has to figure out how to work with the private sector, how to work with the innovators, I mean, just look at the impact that Starlink had, right in in Ukraine in the early days when ViaSat was hit. And what's amazing about that story, by the way, is Starlink got permission to turn on by tweet, because they didn't actually have permission to turn the system on in Ukraine. And Musk tweeted about it, and Mykhailo Fedorov the technology Minister tweeted back, you got permission, go do it. And that's how it got turned on. I mean, that's sort of quintessential I don't know, I don't think the US government could probably take that as a binding contract. So I just think, when we look to the future, the criticality of speed and agility, and the innovation that is happening in the private sector, it's just going to be it has to be closer collaboration and partnership.
Lauren Bedula 11:12
I want to pull on that. I've got a Secretary Panetta’s book behind me, and I recall, it was over 10 years ago, he gave his speech, it was actually at BENS (Business Executives for National Security) and talked about a cyber–Pearl Harbor being imminent. And we really haven't had too many of those significant cyber events. And you talked about these new industries that are popping up and so many technologies that are emerging simultaneously. Is cybersecurity getting enough attention right now as it should, or what keeps you up at night on that front? Are we in good shape there?
NilooFar Razi Howe 11:48
We're working hard. And attackers have an asymmetric advantage in cyber. And the issue is, as we talk about all these new technologies, they are also novel threat vectors, that we have to figure out how to secure the thing I can say is that, you know, when I first started, way back in the stone age, there weren't that many entrepreneurs thinking about cyber thinking about national security. That's not the case today, to get you know, entrepreneurs. And it's not just the US, in Israel, in the UK, in Spain, in Asia, they're thinking about national security, they're thinking about how they can contribute. And the other thing that's really interesting about the ecosystem is cyber entrepreneurs don't stop after their first win, they keep going. We have so many repeat entrepreneurs, so many repeat winners, who start more companies who to you know, start investing in the space who start taking on board seats and advisory board seats. It's an ecosystem that is mission driven, and it will do everything I can to protect us, our infrastructure is a problem, there's no question about it. And just because there hasn't been a cyber–Pearl Harbor, doesn't mean we're not vulnerable.
Hondo Geurts 13:04
So, I'm going to go back to the people element. And as you described, we have on one hand, you know, technology, compounding exponential disruption. And on the other hand, a government that's aging, in many cases, in terms of the leadership of a lot of the senior leaders in these big institutions, who grew up learning one thing. And on the bright side, a lot of young talent joining these institutions. I know you're passionate about how to leverage this, this new talent base, what are you seeing that's working well? And where can we do better, as we think about how to leverage the new talent, who are equally trying to disrupt these older institutions.
NilooFar Razi Howe 13:49
What I see when I look at the next generation of people who were either working in the private sector or serving in the government, they are very different than we are, but in an actually amazing way. So, they have grown up in a world where they have more debt than any other generation, higher inflation than any other generation, fewer assets, lower real income. And so, they don't see a word world from a commercial perspective that actually is very compelling. Where that's led them isn't to go make as much money as possible, but actually to find purpose, because those things they can't control, right? But what they can control is how they spend their time. The pandemic actually reinforced that because folks realize that, hey, actually, there is a life. So today, they want to figure out how their work fits into their life, rather than how we did it, which was how does our life fit into our work? And it's a different attitude, and I think it's hard. In five to 10 years, all the government agencies are going to be run by millennials and Gen Z. The issue we have today is we have of Boomers and Gen Xers, that are managing millennials, millennials and Gen Z, but they think completely differently than we do. And it's not that dissimilar to what I talked about it the acquisition process, we're used to making the workforce meet us where we are as, as executives, they have to work the way we need them to work, they have to respect our work style. That's not how it's going to be, we have to meet them where they are, we have to respect their work style. And we have to reward them in a way that they appreciate. They care so much more about mission and culture than we ever do. I mean, we talk about how important culture is they make their decisions based on how culture is. So, millennials and Gen Z are 10 times more likely to quit over culture issues than pay issues. It's a different mindset. I think it's very exciting. But we've got some adjusting to do.
Hondo Geurts 15:56
Have you seen some best practices on advisor roles you have with some government institutions where, where you're seeing some things that are going well, that that should be replicated other places?
NilooFar Razi Howe 16:08
I think there are government agencies that recognize that there is a big shift coming in the workforce, and some that don't, Those that do are adapting their style to what people call a human centric, talent management style. So, it's, it's not about mission and technology, right? It's not about, hey, we're great because we have this great mission, and we have the best technology to do it. Now. It's about the employer value proposition to the employee. So why should the employee come work here, it doesn't have to do with how great our tech is, it's because we've got the best culture, we have the best process, we have the best recruit, retain train, we have the best onboarding, we care about your career, we have the best career management. And, and there's purpose, the culture and values of the organization need to match the culture and values of the individual. It's, if you're asking about government agencies, the issue is that the private sector kind of went on steroids during the pandemic, they had to adapt day one, or they would go out of business. And so, they figured out how to do remote work and work life balance and adapt the processes, government was a little bit different. So, it has catch up to do, it's somewhere between five to 10 years behind. But there's leaders in agencies who get it and leaders and agencies who probably need a little bit more support to get there.
Lauren Bedula 17:33
You talked about some significant changes on the geopolitical front. And also, your international background. I'm curious what's your take on watching businesses as they navigate almost uncertainty around globalization and international partnerships, any best practices or observations on how to navigate international markets right now.
NilooFar Razi Howe 17:54
So, for companies to become truly successful, right, they have to be global. And this is why I actually don't think there's an AI arms race in the sense that the innovation within AI, and it's just an example is coming from the private sector. The private sector doesn't really care about geopolitics, as much as they care about having their technology used appropriately, globally. So, they're not driving an AI arms race, they want to have their technology go into as many industries around the world as possible. And it's becoming more and more important to be able to do that. With, with partnerships, there's so much more collaboration between other governments and private sector companies. And these are other things, you know, we have to rethink export control and how we do it. You know, we still think we have a 20-year advantage when it comes to certain technologies, and we just don't anymore. So, what are we doing with our export control laws? But, you know, private sector is doing pretty well, I think they understand the importance of going big and going global.
Hondo Geurts 19:00
So, I want to go back a little bit to how the government can better meet industry where they are, and also how industry can better understand the uniqueness, maybe at least right now of working with the government? How do you see that relationship? I think, as Lauren said, is shifted, I think, pretty fundamentally over the last couple of years. Well, how do you see that relationship going? Where do you see success? And where do we still have a long way to go?
NilooFar Razi Howe 19:29
I think if you go to, you know, go back 10 years. And even through today, the fundamental issue we have is an issue of trust, and the trust between the private sector and between the government. What we've seen in times of crisis, whether it's the war on terror, or Russia, Ukraine, or any other active conflict that's going on, is that you learn really quickly what the other party stands for and what they're willing to put on the line. And, and that helps build the trust. So, what I've observed over the last few years is that the private sector and government are working more closely together on issues that they both care about deeply. And they're realizing how, at the most fundamental level, private sector has technology that's appropriate for war capabilities and governments have authorities that private sector doesn't have were where phenomenal and we can beat our adversaries is when those two things come together. And they just have to.
Hondo Geurts 21:10
And are you more confident? What kind of the trends are in the right way? Or others have voiced a concern that, you know, if we don't figure this out in the next year or two, private sector is going to walk away from national security.
NilooFar Razi Howe 21:28
I don't think private sector is going to walk away from national security, but we have to solve the acquisition problem. And everybody talks about it. And the problem is that the problem isn't just within the agencies, the problem is also on the Hill. And we need a well-functioning government, from White House to Congress to the agencies to really resolve this acquisition problem. We keep standing up these incredible units, whether it's DIU, or it's InQtel. And they do remarkable things. And yet, that acquisition problem still exists. So, I over rotate to optimism. That's one of my sorts of survival mechanisms. Actually, one of my favorite quotes is from an Italian Marxist philosopher, and he said this from jail, I am a pessimist because of intellect. But I'm an optimist because of will. And I think, you know, we're not going to give up we're going to get there.
Lauren Bedula 22:20
So, when you talk about an acquisition, probably, we have to ask about that on our show, because we're curious, is it a policy issued? Are there more authorities necessary here? Or is it really cultural curious for your take there? Because it's very interesting with your analysis of talent needs and evolving interest on that front?
NilooFar Razi Howe 22:38
Yeah, I think it's a multi front problem. If you start with the Hill, and how we make decisions about investing in in big tech programs, as often they're driven by the geography of the member, who is pushing it, as it is by need, may we have the Air Force in every state? Why? Why do we need the Air Force in every state, it doesn't really make a lot of sense, except somebody wanted an Air Force base in that particular state, Air Force is phenomenal. Don't get me wrong, it just doesn't seem to be the best use of resources. Then you have the procurement, procurement rules and regulations, and policies, and they're in place for a really good reason. But they are now getting in our way. And there are small elite groups within the government within the military that figured out how to procure for their mission in an agile way. It doesn't necessarily scale that way. So, we have to figure out how to bring that agility to big DOD.
Hondo Geurts 23:50
I love the word scale. And as a venture capitalist, right, you're looking for the scale that somebody else isn't seeing. What do you tell startups now? What are you looking for? When you see innovative, whether it's a little government office or a startup that wants to scale? What is your kind of best lessons learned for their ability to scale up and increase your impact?
NilooFar Razi Howe 24:14
The first issue you have to me you have to be solving a problem that's big in a way that no one else is solving it. And it has to be big, because you're not going to get it right out of the gate and you want to have a bunch of turns up at and if it's a small problem, you're just not going to be able to get the traction that you need. Getting to product market fit is one of the hardest things that startups have to do to develop the product and solve the problem that exists as opposed to and I've seen this a lot solving a problem that doesn't exist. And so really focusing on making sure that the technology is appropriate for that product is built with modern architecture. It can scale you look at the team, the team is so important. Do they have the right background and expertise? How did the founder pick their co-founders? Is it their buddies from high school? Or did they actually go out and get the best and the brightest, I would watch body language so carefully when the pitches happen, because you can talk so much about, you know, how the founders interact and whether they're actually getting along just by the body language. But you've got to have resilience to because it's not going to be a straight line, it's never a straight line. And you have to have a learning mentality and be okay with getting it wrong. And just figuring out what the next move is, as opposed to, you know, being crushed by the fact that, you know, this didn't work, just keep going and keep going, keep going.
Lauren Bedula 25:44
It's such an important advice, especially in a field like national security, where you can't take too much risk, I think, again, to this cultural piece, it's important to know, you know, where you can have opportunities to test and push boundaries and recover from failure, and how it's never going to be a straight line. That's, that's fantastic. Niloo you've excelled in through at least three different fields that are quite male dominated, I'd say finance, technology, national security. I'm curious as we think about fostering stronger talent and a workforce that meets future generation’s needs. Do you have any advice for listeners who are trying to make it in fields where they might not have the same background or look like others that are primarily in those fields?
NilooFar Razi Howe 26:26
This is another gift that my childhood gave me and being an exile gave me which is I just don't care what people think about me. And you know, I'm a skier, I'm a backcountry skier, I'm a mountain biker. And when you do those things, if you focus on the obstacles, you're going to go right into the obstacles, if you just stay focused on the path, and do great, I mean, you have to be good at it, you'll make it through. So, the best thing I can say is, don't compare your insides to other people's outsides. You're fantastic, keep going. It doesn't matter if you got this one wrong, you're going to get the next one, right, just learn from it. And don't listen, actually don't listen to detractors, or people who try and puff you up, just go with your gut, and keep pushing.
Hondo Geurts 27:15
It's such a such an inspiring piece. And I want to appeal back a little bit because you're talking about the next generation of talent….nd they're purpose driven, but they're not mission driven. How do you how do you explain those two, because I would say many of us in national security have traditionally kind of wrapped ourselves around the mission as a way to attract and inspire others. Are those vision and purpose congruent or just have to be discussed or thought of in a different way.
NilooFar Razi Howe 27:52
I think what I meant to say about this next generation is that while they are pessimistic about careers, and they sort of look ahead of them, and by the way, they're not just pessimistic about careers, they're pessimistic about life in some ways. I mean, we're seeing the, you know, addiction rate, the suicide rate going through the roof, what they want is to work in a place that is consistent with their values, doing things that are meaningful, that are closely tied to driving outcomes. Now, where that meaning comes from, it can be mission. But everything around it has to be enabling them to be putting their energy against the highest use that it can be put in. And by the way, this is even true in academia, right? I'm an English Lit major. I'm great at cocktail conversations. It's not very purposeful to me, it's great for storytelling. But I wasn't really thinking about what I am going to do with my English Lit degree, I just love reading books. Today, when I go on college campuses, and I talk to kids, they are so focused on I want to go do something like what I'm learning has to be tied to what I'm going to do, and I'm going to drive outcomes. And by the way, you adults, you can kind of mess up the world. And they're not wrong about that. So, I'm going to go figure out how to fix it. And that's the attitude that I think if we can harness it the right way, is going to give us remarkable advantage.
Hondo Geurts 29:23
Yeah and I wanted to pick on that a little bit because I think sometimes in the national security organizations, we've all been in. We believe it's just mission and its mission, mission. And the mission is important and it's imperative but how you wrap that around purpose and culture and behaviors. It can't just be because we have a mission that will attract and retain the talent that we need in this very important mission.
NilooFar Razi Howe 29:54
Absolutely Hondo and it's not just that you're going to like this job because this mission oriented, we're not going to tell you how your work actually impacts the mission because we've siloed everything. But trust us that it impacts the mission. Part of the change has been that the private sector has gotten so close to mission, that you can actually go do mission in the private sector. And the government used to have a monopoly on mission, it doesn't have a monopoly on mission anymore. And it needs to recognize that.
Lauren Bedula 30:24
That’s a great point. And to pull it one step further. I'm curious for those that are listening, that might be entrepreneurs, or founders or town that's interested in going into government, you have a great story about being quite get disconnected from government but finding that passion and now here you are today, on several boards, working closely with the US government. Any advice to maybe founders who want to sell in or talent that wants to get involved?
NilooFar Razi Howe 30:47
What I always tell people is there's a way to serve, there's always a way to serve, you just need to figure out what's the right way for you to serve. General Minihan always would tell me, he's like, I wish I had you at the NSA, because I would have just, you know, he was pretty sure I would have quit within a year because of my attitude. But being an advisor and being a strategic adviser is actually where I can provide the greatest value. And that's how I've learned how to serve the mission. I do a lot of nonprofit work. I don't work in the nonprofit sector, but international development and social justice are really important to me. And I've served on boards doing that for the past 25 years. So service, there isn't just one way to serve your country to do good. There's lots of ways of doing it. And life is so much more meaningful when you can do that.
Lauren Bedula 31:39
I'd say a matt important call to action. Niloo thank you so much for coming on the show telling your story and giving this advice to our listeners. This was an awesome conversation. Thank you.