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Welcome to the official podcast of the World Small Animal Veterinary Association, where we bring you conversations with leading veterinary experts from around the globe. Each season spotlights one WSAVA committee, sharing their knowledge, research, and insights through short, accessible interviews.
Every fortnight, we speak with two experts on a shared theme, offering concise, engaging discussions designed to spark curiosity and guide you toward WSAVA’s extensive library of educational resources, webinars, and events. Hosted by WSAVA President Jim Berry, the podcast delivers focused conversations that connect you with the latest thinking in small animal medicine worldwide.
You can find more educational resources from WSAVA here: https://wsava.org/education/
Welcome to the WSAVA Podcast.
This episode explores the challenges of
extreme conformation, from the health
risks it creates for patients to the
tough choices faced by veterinarians.
While you listen, ask yourself,
how do you balance empathy for the
individual patient with broader
concerns about breeding practices?
Our host, Ernie Ward, speaks
first with Sorrell Langley-Hobbs,
then with Becky Murphy.
Let's get started.
We love sharing voices like yours
because you are tackling some of
the toughest topics that we all face
around the globe in veterinary medicine
and to start with today, I'd like
to understand how do you distinguish
between a cat's orthopedic problem
that's inherited versus one that's caused
by an old injury or current disease?
What are the clues or
patterns that you look for?
Yeah, good question.
So I think when a cat comes into the
consulting room, immediately we start
to recognize patterns of disease in
certain breeds of cats and knowing
the breed could indicate that the
condition could be inherited, such
as hip dysplasia or patellar luxation
, arthritis is very common in cats.
But if I'm presented cat with two
bilateral joints affected, particularly
in a younger cat, then consider, could
this be a hereditary condition similar
to elbow dysplasia in dogs, for example?
So what are some of those
breeds that you look for?
Yeah, so I think Maine Coon in
orthopedics comes near the top.
So we see hip dysplasia
in Maine Coon cats.
We see quite a lot of arthritis,
particularly affecting bilateral
elbows and patellar luxation are
the sort of three main orthopedic
conditions that that spring to mind.
Scottish Fold cats, we all know the
issues there, the osteochondrodysplasia,
and then there are more rarer
conditions, orthopedic conditions,
myasthenia in the Devon Rex and
Sphynx, mucopolysaccharidosis
in Siamese related cats.
We got polydactyly, doesn't always
cause a problem, although some
extreme types may be associated
with loss of certain bone segments.
How often do you actually see just
true hereditary causes of these joint
problems versus trauma or injury?
I do see a lot of trauma cases,
but they're often pretty obvious
with fractures and ruptured
ligaments and tendons and things.
But I am seeing an increasing number
of cats that I suspect have hereditary
disease and I think that increase is
potentially related to the increase
in people having pedigree cats.
For example, the ownership of Maine Coon
cats has increased quite spectacularly
in the last few years and I see a lot
of Maine Coons with orthopedic problems.
And then I've started to see
some designer cats as well.
I recently saw a cat that was a Munchkin
cross Sphynx cross American Curl, so the
dwarf cat with no hair and curly ears.
That cat had a subluxation of
its radial head causing lameness.
This is a condition we don't see in cats.
Cats should have nice straight legs.
It's a condition we see in
chondrodystrophic breeds, such as the
Shihtzu and the Lhasa Apso, so it was
really quite saddening, really, that this
cat was bred for its chondrodystrophia
and we are starting to see problems
that we see in dogs, in cat breeds.
Yeah, and I want to get back to some
of those designer cat problems because
this is an emerging problem worldwide.
But you mentioned hip dysplasia
and we talk about hip dysplasia all
the time in dogs, and we've done a
pretty good job of raising public
awareness and breeder awareness about
the dangers and how to avoid it.
But what about in cats?
What can we do to try to help raise
awareness about hip dysplasia in cats,
particularly those are being bred?
Cats are quite good at masking the
signs of hip dysplasia because they're
not put on a lead and taken for walks
generally, it is a polygenetic trait,
so we can't do a blood test for it,
but we can radiograph it and so we can
encourage breeders to have their cats hips
radiographed before breeding, particularly
in the breeds that are predisposed.
So what screening tools
do you recommend for cats?
We can do a clinical examination.
Again, that can be a little bit
challenging in some cats, they can
be quite stoic and good at hiding
their pain unless it's quite severe.
So I think we may miss cases
of hip dysplasia if we're just
relying on a physical examination.
We can do the extended hip radiographs.
We could also think about the PennHIP
scheme, so the various radiographic
means of trying to score hip dysplasia,
which is the first start really to try
and to then be able to select the cats
that have normal hips to breed from.
Right.
And hip dysplasia in cats is polygenic but
what about some of the other conditions?
Are there genetic screening
tests available for them?
Yes, so there are some
screening tests available.
You can look for osteochondrodysplasia
in the Scottish Fold cats.
You can test for congenital
myasthenia mucopolysaccharidosis
polydactyly, the Burmese head defect.
So there are genetic tests available and
these give information on the inheritance
and which cats you can breed from
depending on the results of those tests.
So there's definitely things that
the responsible breeders can do
to try and decrease the prevalence
of these diseases in their cats.
Yeah, and I wanna go back to the
designer cat dilemma that we're
facing here in the United States.
We're seeing more and more of these
types of cats with dwarfism and other.
Particularly skull malformations,
and we're seeing now BOAS or
the brachiocephalic obstructive
airway syndrome in cats.
Talk to us about some of these
other conditions that you're seeing
maybe beyond just the extremities.
Yeah, so let's start with
the brachycephalic cat.
So I think our typical one would
be the Persian cat and they
have Brachycephalic skulls.
So they are presented with
nares, they have BOAS.
They can also get quite severe
eye problems due to their enlarged
eyes, eyes protrude, they can
have dry eye, they can be prone
to ulceration, blocked teared ups.
They can also have skin folds
that can get infected as well.
So there are multiple problems that
we can see in the Persian cats,
reportedly suffering from a higher rate
of dystocia and birthing difficulties
and having to have cesareans for
their cats and sadly, Persian cat has
a lower life expectancy of 10 to 12
years compared to our domestic short
hair cat that can live till 20 years.
So there's obviously having
an effect on longevity.
Okay.
We've discussed a lot of hereditary
conditions in cats, but what
role should veterinarians play in
helping either set, establish, or
even maintain breeding standards?
Yeah, I think veterinarians
have a social responsibility.
Potentially, owners aren't always aware of
the diseases that their breeds may suffer
from, so they can warn them about the
clinical signs to expect and the potential
that they may need surgery in the future.
For example, the Persian cat, they may
need surgery to widen their nostrils.
They may need BOAS surgery, they may
need cesarean, so they breed from
them, but potentially even talking
to them about not breeding from
their cat because of these diseases.
I know for dogs, if dogs like pugs,
for example, are shown on advertising,
then we're quite good at contacting the
advertiser to say, please remove that
brachycephalic breed from your advertising
and responsible companies will do so.
They often don't realize the potential
for increasing the popularity of
that breed and I think we could
do the more for cats in that area.
I think that's something that
perhaps we're not quite so good at.
Okay, so now you're in the
exam room and you're confronted
with a case with a significant
hereditary malformation, right?
So this could be either extremities
or facial or skull, whatever.
How do you weigh the surgical options?
When do you intervene and how do you
discuss the long-term responsibilities
and even costs with that owner?
Yeah, I think as it's our responsibility
as a vet to relieve pain and suffering
from that affected individual.
It isn't the cat's fault that
it's got a hereditary disease.
So I think every cat is treated as
an individual and if they're in pain
and if they're suffering, then I will
do my best to try and relieve that.
But also, you know, if you're
presented with a cat that perhaps isn't
neutered, then you should talk to them
about neutering if it is a problem
that you think could be hereditary.
Talk about prognosis.
Talk about longevity.
Again, every surgery is different,
but there's obviously potential for
complications with surgery that in
some cases could cause fatality.
A lot of discussions to be had with
these diseases, whether it be hip
dysplasia or BOAS surgery, for example.
So how do you know when to operate versus
just trying to medically or palliatively
manage this case moving forward?
Again, that depends on the
individual, so the severity, the
chronicity, if they haven't been
tried with medical management.
So let's look at hip dysplasia.
We can certainly do environmental
modification if a cat's got
hip dysplasia so they don't
have to jump to get their food.
We can try medical management, weight
loss may be something that owners
need to do for their cat that can help
with lameness and arthritis in quite a
proportion of cases, and then if that
doesn't work, then we have got surgical
options such as femoral head and neck
excision or hip replacement in the cat.
Some of these options are expensive,
but I will always offer all options
and it's giving prognosis, what I feel
is the best option for the cat, so the
owner can make an informed decision,
Particularly with younger cats that
are facing these challenges, how
do you discuss quality of life,
long-term prognosis or even longevity?
Yeah, that can be a difficult one
really without a crystal ball.
I think it's, again,
can be quite variable.
I think, deciding when a cat with hip
dysplasia is having a poor quality of
life euthanasia could be many years away.
They can live quite a good life with the
right environmental modifications and
expectations and medication, even if the
owners can't afford expensive surgery.
The Persian cat has a decreased
longevity related to the
brachycephalia and the BOAS.
And again, that may be something the
owners aren't necessarily aware about,
but quality of life, we need to think
about that cat's daily existence
rather than thinking we want it to
live for 20 years, we want it to have
a good quality of life in the time it
has, rather than trying necessarily
to prolong life expectancy with these
defects that the cat has been born with.
Yeah, always difficult conversation,
but one we absolutely have to have.
It's essential as a profession that
we continue to address these issues
openly and directly because that's the
only way we can change in the future.
Now, I know a lot of our listeners
today are saying, I wanna help.
I wanna do something.
I know this is a problem, but
they don't know where to start.
What's that one action that they
can do tomorrow in their clinic
to help reduce the incidence
of hereditary disease in cats?
Yeah, that's a a good question,
which difficult to know what
you can do one action tomorrow.
I guess it depends what you're faced with.
Again, speaking to owners, speaking
to breeders, I know there are a lot
of breeders out there who are very
responsible and who want to do the best
for their breed, and I know some of them
will get upset that the breed standards
are not selecting for the healthier cats.
For example, in the Persian, the
breed standards can be a little bit
vague about the flat face or the nose.
Whereas it probably should say the
Persian needs to have a prominent
nose that protrudes beyond the eyes,
rather than just being a little bit
vague about what the nose should be.
And then some breeders, some cat fanciers,
maybe selecting for cats with the
very flat face, with the ultra extreme
features because the breed standards
aren't very explicit, whereas the breed
standards could be more explicit and could
actually select for the healthier cats.
I think that would be a good start.
So possibly thinking about
engaging with your breeder in
your area, your breed standards.
For example, in the UK we have the Kennel
Club, so writing to the Kennel Club.
There has been talks about banning
certain breeds, so the Scottish Fold,
the Sphynx cat and the Munchkin.
These are all breeds that are
extreme in their conformation.
Their lack of hair in
the relation to the Sphynx,
and the Scottish Fold
that we know has osteochondral dysplasia
and is already banned in some countries.
So we should perhaps try and extend
this ban to more countries so that
people will not breed from these
affected cats with genetic mutations.
And I think it's so important that we work
with these breeding clubs and different
organizations, again, as an ally.
I think that we have a huge opportunity
with felines because we've learned a lot
from our work with dogs over the last
120 to 140 years and so again, we need to
take that forward and as you mentioned,
really get specific with some of these
breed standards because the vagueness
leads to these types of problems for sure.
Now finally, as we wrap up today,
there are a lot of young veterinarians
that are gonna be listening to this
podcast and they may be facing a
similar type of ethical dilemma
for the first time in their career.
What general advice do you give them when
they are confronting such a challenge?
You really got to be diplomatic
and you don't want to alienate
your cat owner or your breeder.
You want to express the fact that you
care about animals, you care about cats.
You want the cat to be healthy and
you want to speak to them in a way
that instills confidence in you and
that you are not criticizing the owner
or the breeder, but seeing if you
together could see a way forward that
will improve the health of the cat
and breeding future cats so they see
you as an ally rather than an enemy.
I think that will be the one thing
to encourage and in the UK I know
we can also report when we perform
surgery as a cosmetic surgery and
we should be better at doing that.
If we know we're performing surgery for
example, BOAS in Persian cats, we should
be reporting on these surgeries so that
the Kennel Club has better idea of the
problems that these breeds are facing.
That's a fantastic advice for any
young veterinarian listening today.
And again, just come at it from a
non-judgmental plane and try to make
sure that you are trying to help that
pet, because chances are the owner
had no idea what was going on when
they adopted or bought this cat.
You did mention here we need to
work more on how we communicate with
breeding, helping establish, creating and
setting, maintaining breeding standards.
You mentioned also that perhaps
veterinarians should be logging or
reporting certain types of surgery, which
has been discussed widely here in the US,
but how can the global WSAVA community
help you with these types of endeavors?
We should think about having global breed
characteristics that we can all agree on.
As a start, let's breed Persians
that have noses and that can breathe.
If we get that message out there, perhaps
for one breed like the Persian cat and
it's successful, then we might be able
to increase that and extend that to
other breeds that we can again, work
together to improve the welfare of our
cats with respiratory problems, with
orthopedic problems, with bony problems.
After Sorrell Langley-Hobbs,
Ernie is joined by Becky Murphy
to share her perspective.
When it comes to reproduction in dogs with
those extreme conformations, what are some
of the factors that guide your decision
on when to assist or maybe when to say no?
It is a really difficult topic to
approach because oftentimes breeder
clients are very large clients
within a veterinary practice.
Our code of professional conduct says
that we must provide treatment in
situations where welfare is compromised.
We don't have to provide
artificial insemination services.
It is not a welfare
compromised situation to be in.
That dog does not need breeding,
it, it is something that we can say
no, but it takes us as a collective
to all say it to make a difference.
Because I say no, doesn't mean
that one of my colleagues will.
And so we need to be a little
bit more collaborative with that.
We have a minimum set of testing
requirements that we have for particularly
brachycephalic dogs, that their function
is incredibly important and their
ability to breed is incredibly important.
So we will not facilitate a breeding,
be it an artificial insemination
or semen freezing or anything to do
with reproduction if a dog that is a
brachycephalic does not undergo the
respiratory function grading test and
meet a certain set of requirements.
That's a difficult conversation
to have with a client, right?
A committed breeder who doesn't
quite understand the health impacts
of these conformation issues, right?
So how do you actually
navigate that conversation?
It depends on what type of breeder I
have in front of me as well, because
there are many different types.
It's just like anything, right?
One veterinarian is different to another
veterinarian and we've got different
views and ethical standpoints and things
that we accept as okay and so sometimes
I have in front of me a client who
I describe as preservation breeders.
If they have been involved with that
breed for a very long time, they
know generations worth of pedigrees.
They have a deep understanding of health
issues, even if they haven't had a
DNA test identified for it yet, they
know what's going on in those lines.
And so that is actually sometimes
more difficult to have that
conversation with preservation
breeders than the new breeders.
So the preservation breeders, we
need to try and be open-minded.
We need to be positive and if there
is a test available to demonstrate
disease, it makes our conversation a
lot easier because then it's not our
subjective opinion, saying your dog's
health is suffering because of its look.
It is a, this is a test
that we have performed.
These are the results that we've received.
This is now telling you that this dog is
suffering because of its conformation.
There are a lot of conformational issues
that don't have tests available, and
so that does make that conversation
a little bit more difficult.
The problem that has surfaced over
the last several years, particularly
with brachycephalic dogs, is that
the popularity of them has seen
the breeding go from preservation
breeders to indiscriminate breeders,
and they will often not have the
historic knowledge of the breed lines.
They are breeding the very specific
traits such as exotic type colors,
extreme facial skin folds, or all
of those sorts of things and because
of that, we are producing massive
amounts of selection pressure on
these dogs purely for a desired look.
And that is a completely different
conversation because that needs
to be a lot more firm and a lot
more hard hitting with facts.
Your dog can't breathe that is suffering.
Those sorts of statements.
So what tools do you use in your
clinic to screen and explain to
those breeders that, hey, here's
the problem and let me demonstrate
how objectively this is a problem?
New doesn't mean bad and experience
doesn't mean good either.
It just changes that mindset on
how you approach the conversation.
So in terms of, I have a new client
come into the practice, and we always
require this discussion about what
health testing has been done or disease
screening has been done on these dogs.
And oftentimes I'm told, I've
done the DNA, it's all done.
And so the breeder has diligently
ordered a commercial kit of DNA tests,
and they've got back 400 test results,
trait results, all sorts of different
coat colors and all sorts of things.
In those 400 tests, there might be
three that are actually relevant
to that dog and to that breed that
have been verified for that breed.
So we're getting screeds of information
from commercial laboratories and the
breeders are finding it hard to interpret,
but also the veterinarians are finding
it hard to interpret what is important.
So we have DNA testing, that's one
thing, but we'll also have to consider
the phenotypic tests as well, which
are the physical screening tests.
That's hip scoring, elbow scoring,
doing an x-ray for hemi-vertebrae
and bulldogs, transitional
vertebrae and German shepherds,
and eye testing, cardiac testing.
There's physical tests that
we're not looking at DNA.
We're looking at the clinical
disease caused by the mutations
that we might not find.
They can be a little bit more difficult
to make progress with over time
because there's a lot of genes involved
and there's a lot of environmental
influences involved in those expressions.
Most large breed dogs
need hips and elbows.
Most dog breeds need eye certification.
There are certain breeds
that are more susceptible to
cardiac disease and so forth.
Fantastic information on
the UK Kennel Club website.
If you go and search up your
breed, you can go through and find
recommended high level set of tests
and ones that are also recommended
as well as part of a breed package.
So they have been looked through by
experts who have determined that they're
clinically relevant tests for that breed.
When it comes to the results, because
testing is one thing, then you
actually have to look at the test
results and not just say it's done.
We have to look at the different types
of traits that have been tested for DNA
and we have to understand whether or
not they're simple mendelian traits,
the old p punnett squares, or they are
complex multifactorial, or they are
associated marker genes, or they, there's
so much complication going on here and
oftentimes the report will say Affected.
So degenerative myelopathy is a great
example because if it has two copies of
the variance, it's affected, but it's
not, it's just possibly at a higher risk.
Then we have to look at our hips and
our elbows, and we wanna look at breed
averages because unless we are going to
retire breeds and get rid of them, we want
to make gradual progress and improvement,
and that's by selecting the better half
of the breed every time we can so as we
don't restrict our gene pool too much.
So now we have in front of
us a dog with severe BOAS.
A severe elbow or hip problem.
How do you draw the line between surgical
interventions versus palliative medical,
and how do you have that conversation
moving forward because now we have a
demonstrable objective finding of a
disease or medical condition that's
gonna cause potentially suffering
and maybe decreased longevity.
How do you have that conversation?
It is a difficult conversation to have,
and my approach to it is preventative
rather than reactive, so that this is
the area that I work on, is trying to
prevent these problems from surfacing.
However, the discussion that needs
to be had whenever any inherited
slash conformational disease is
identified is this is lifelong.
This is not something that we can
provide a medication to and fix
it, that it's literally in its DNA.
It is a lifelong condition.
We are never going to be able to fix it.
We can mask it, we can treat some
symptoms, but this dog will always
have this condition and this burden.
We'll pick on the bulldogs,
the Brachycephalic dogs.
There's also spinal problems, skin
problems, and gastrointestinal
problems that go with the severe
obstructive airway disease.
And so when I get them through
my consult room, it is a really
challenging one, and it depends on
the financial ability of the owner.
It depends on the abilities of
the owner to care for this dog.
And moving forward, one of the
really interesting things that's
been found in studies over time,
when we ask the question, why do
people buy dogs that are suffering?
Because they do and they go back and
they buy them again and again, is
because they like to take care of
something and they like that feeling
of providing treatment and providing
care for something that is not well.
As veterinarians, we can't now stop
the fact that this beautiful little
puppy's been brought into us that is
already suffering laryngeal collapse.
We can't stop that.
That's done.
But we can have that conversation
with the client in front of us
to say, this is what's happened.
That this is why this is happening.
Your dog has been suffering
because of these reasons.
You need to make sure, if you want
a brachycephalic dog, you need to
buy from a responsible breeder who's
making these right decisions along
the lines and trying to reduce the
harm that's being caused by them.
So that's the really difficult thing.
And gosh, it's a how long's a piece
of string question because it, it
depends on the condition, it depends
on the financial ability of the owner,
and it depends on the skills of the
veterinarians that you've got around
you to be able to treat the disease.
You've gotta set expectations.
You have to tell them how
to change the lifestyle.
For example, whether it's weight loss
or improving airway through surgery or
medications, there's a lot of work there.
I'd like to now slightly turn the
conversation because a lot of these
breeds are very popular in advertising
and social media and so forth.
We're almost at a state where these
extreme conformations, these unhealthy
conformations have become normal, right?
From your perspective, what
kind of practical changes should
kennel clubs be looking at?
What can advertisers do?
What about social media outreach?
I mean, what are the things that we
could do over the next few years as
a profession to help turn the tide
and raise awareness not only on the
risk of these conformational issues,
but maybe to encourage healthier
and safer breeding practices?
That's a really interesting question
because I've certainly found in my
time working with the variety of people
from breeders to fellow veterinarians,
to regulators, to my colleagues
worldwide, is that negativity and that
negative approach doesn't work because
it causes us to lose our ability to
influence any change with people.
So if we come out with very strong
negative messaging, for example, the
Lovers Blind campaign in Australia, that
was launched and it was a collaborative
effort between the the SBCA, the
Veterinary Association and other groups.
It didn't have the impact that was really
hoped for and my own very subjective
opinion is that we need to approach
it with more positivity rather than
negativity because people will just
switch off and they will stop listening.
We have to focus on positivity and
what we can do to affect change
that way instead of focusing on
the bad things that can happen.
Hey, look, if we respiratory function
grade, screen all of your dogs, over time,
we are going to start seeing improvements.
If you start selecting for
slightly longer noses over time,
we will start seeing improvements.
So you've gotta know when to have
the policeman voice and you've
gotta know when to have the
encourage and supportive voice.
So in terms of changing that frame, most
dogs are actually quite innately healthy
that they function quite well as a dog,
and so let's focus on them because there
are plenty of Labradors out there, and
of the terrier breeds, there's lots and
lots and lots of different breeds out
there that are really healthy and function
well, and live good, healthy, happy lives.
You will not see a brachycephalic dog
or cat or a dog or cat with extreme
conformation in New Zealand publications
anymore because every time it comes up,
every time there's something in an advert,
we say, Hey guys, this is the concerns
that we have with this and using it
as an example perpetuates the problem.
So it's that really simple,
respectful, polite conversation.
Most people have no idea that it
could be perpetuating an issue.
So positivity, focus on healthy, I
think is the way to move forward.
I love that, and I totally
agree with your message there.
What about impacts that we can have
with these preservation breeders?
Are you having much success talking to
them about the issues and encouraging
them to maybe take some of these tests
and breeding practices more seriously?
Yeah, absolutely and a lot of these,
a lot of my clients have been doing
it for a very long time anyway, and
even before it was required for their
breed and sometimes that they know so
much just by looking at it as well.
Once we do these tests over and over
again, there is a certain amount of
understanding that comes with that.
And then with that comes
self-selection as well.
And particularly for my brachycephalic
breeder clients that we've been doing
respiratory function grading testing
for a long time, they already know.
They'll walk in and they'll say,
they've written down on their piece
of paper what they think the grade,
the score, is and they'll hide it.
And then I'll do the test
and then they'll show it.
And oftentimes we're pretty on the nose.
And so once there is that awareness,
that increased awareness of what these
conditions actually mean and how we
can prevent them, there will be more
self-selection going on with breeders.
I think it's the surge in popularity
of certain breeds that causes that
indiscriminate breeding that we
can have those problems perpetuated
through because we're just not
looking for the right things.
We've touched on a lot of layers here.
We've talked about exam room
issues, client communication,
breeding communication, breed
standards, social media.
But there's a lot of veterinarians
who are probably listening to this and
they just don't know where to start.
So if there's that one little thing
you could say to that listener, that
veterinary colleague who's saying, I know
I need to do something, I just don't know
where to start, where should they start?
I think it's about shifting that
mindset of hereditary disease being
a little bit boring, a little bit
difficult, a little bit confusing
because we don't learn about genetics
anymore in our veterinary degrees.
Reframe that thought into
preventative medicine.
So let's try and get in there before
the problems are actually caused.
So we want to be rewarding our
clients with function over form.
They want to live as a dog and
we want to put the welfare at
the center of the breeding.
We're not just gonna reduce
suffering by doing that sort of
thing, we're gonna be redefining
what it means to improve the breed.
Courage is contagious.
When one vet sets a welfare first
example, it makes it easier for the
next so difficult conversations to have
sometimes, no, I won't breed your dog.
But the more of us that do that,
the easier it will get for everybody
and the quality of life of the
dogs will improve over time.
I love that and I would also add
to that for every no that you
say, there's a yes, that's better.
So I love the fact that we do have to
accept these standards and adhere by
them because again, this is the future
that we're talking about and speaking
of that, I mean we've talked a lot
about the science, ethics and policy
that we're dealing with, but I wanna
ask you, how can the WSAVA global
community that's listening today, how
can they help support and amplify your
works and actually help improve the
welfare of some of these dogs at risk?
Just about educating ourselves.
It's listening to this.
If somebody is listening to this, then
they're obviously showing an interest.
I think it's, again, I'm gonna come
back to it again, changing our view of
ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.
Let's fix the problem that's already
in front of us, which we obviously
need to do, which is the way that us
as veterinarians are trained to do,
approach a problem, diagnose it, and
fix it to let's try and prevent the
problem from getting there in the first
place, which is a difficult thing to
do because it requires a little bit
of different knowledge, a little bit
of different education, and trying
to learn about how hereditary disease
works, and it's about having difficult
conversations with the clients as well.
So I think in terms of the WSAVA, I think
we're doing a lot of really good work,
we just need more people to listen to us.
One really interesting thing, and it
happens every year, the hereditary disease
streams are empty despite us having lots
of great things to say, they're empty.
And so I did a little bit of an exercise
this last Congress and my talk, which
was at the end of the day, there were
a handful of very amazing people in
there who asked great questions and
were very attentive when we were talking
about reducing the need for surgery
through better breeding decisions.
But there weren't many people in
there, and the next morning was the
BOAS surgery lecture that I went to.
Packed, and the same with medical
management lectures as well, packed.
So every body wants to know how
to fix the problem that's in front
of us, but we are just not getting
that investment and preventing the
problem from occurring to start with.
Yeah, these are challenges we'd
much rather focus on the medication
and the surgery as opposed to
the prevention, which actually is
what we all should be focused on.
Thanks for joining us on the WSAVA
podcast, where we are transforming
care one episode at a time.
We hope today's discussion was
helpful wherever you are in the world.
You'll find more information and further
resources on the topics discussed in the
show notes, and we look forward to sharing
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