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HOA life isn’t just about bylaws and board meetings, it’s about building something real.
Welcome to Hey Neighbor, the podcast for homeowners, board members, and community leaders who want more than just rules. They want connection, clarity, and a community that actually works.
Our mission is to help you unlock the full potential of your neighborhood, whether you’re navigating conflict, leading with purpose, or just trying to figure out what those HOA fees actually cover. If you care about where you live, and who you live next to, this is your space.
Hosted by community expert Denise Haas, Hey Neighbor dives into the real stories and behind-the-scenes truths of HOA life. Each episode, we explore the issues no one talks about but everyone deals with, from neighbor disputes and boardroom drama to financial transparency and shared wins.
Whether you're new to HOA life or a seasoned board member ready for change, this is where real talk meets real solutions - with just enough laughs along the way.
Subscribe now, and let’s build better communities together.
Dawn Bauman [00:00:00]:
The goal is utopia, right? Don't we all want utopia and world peace?
Denise Haas [00:00:05]:
We do.
Dawn Bauman [00:00:06]:
We all want everyone to be in line with our covenants. We want them to be reasonable. We want them to be enforced in a reasonable, fair and equitable way. We don't want to be like, ah, I saw you ping. Finding you, that's not what we want.
Denise Haas [00:00:22]:
I'm Denise Haas and this is Hey Neighbor, the podcast that dives deep into the real life issues of HOA living the good, the bad, and the downright complicated. Today on our first inaugural podcast, we have Dawn Bauman. She is the Chief Strategy Officer at our Community Associations Institute, otherwise affectionately known as CAI, and Executive Director of the foundation for Community Association Research. A national leader in community association housing, dawn has truly shaped key advocacy efforts and safety policies across the country. I personally know dawn several years. This woman knows all things association related. So with that, welcome, Dawn.
Dawn Bauman [00:01:17]:
Hey. Hi. It is so good to see you, Denise. Thank you so much for having me. I'm truly honored. When you invited me to participate in this podcast as the inaugural guest, I literally started crying. I was so honored and privileged. Thank you so much.
Dawn Bauman [00:01:32]:
I'm excited to get into the conversation and as inspired by you as you seem to say. You're inspired by me. So looking forward to this.
Denise Haas [00:01:41]:
It's going to be fun when I know I need an expert to really know what direction I need to go with some of my communities at a local level and to understand national. You're the person we reach out to. So today's episode is on what really matters for community in 2025. I am super excited about this because I think the evolution of communities through the pandemic has really changed. I think we have now more than ever, a lot of legislation happening. And so this will be kind of fun. So let's see from your perspective, what are the biggest challenges facing HOA communities for this 2025 period?
Dawn Bauman [00:02:25]:
Well, that's a great question. I'm going to talk about it starting right now, 2025. But I see a couple of these as big challenges that will need to be discussed and resolved or at least will evolve in the coming years. So not just 2025. One, covenant enforcement. I'm going to talk about that in a second board member, what a board member is, what a board member, who a board member is and what they do, and then technology and its impact on our industry in all areas of our industry, including management, as well as just people living in associations and the board members also. So let me just talk about COVENANTS for just a minute. So I think covenant enforcement, we are seeing across the country a challenge to what's statutes for allowing for finding for covenant enforcement.
Dawn Bauman [00:03:24]:
So challenging that idea. It's difficult for a legislator and for media and others to understand why would someone get a fine from their homeowners association if they left their trash can out. We've seen commercials make fun of this, right? And so we know as industry experts that's not what's happening. It's not these fine and fine and fine because of a trash can. It is a fine because of a Hey Neighbor. The neighbor called the management office or the board and said so and so has left their, their trash can out or the garage door open or their truck parked in their garage or their Christmas tree lights up for too long. It's all happening too long. So that Hey Neighbor is complaining about their other neighbor and creating then an enforcement requirement often for these associations.
Dawn Bauman [00:04:23]:
Now there's also roaming enforcement which is fair and equitable and should be done. But I think we're going to see in the coming years a shift in enforcement for covenants. I just, I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't want to predict. But I'm telling you right now that fining and certainly states, some states have already changed this. The opportunity to file a lien for fines. We're going to see that change.
Denise Haas [00:04:53]:
So it's interesting that you say that. So when I am working with boards, I tell them, think of the find fine as an opportunity to just say, hey, did you forget this? We know life gets busy, but we really need you to pay attention to it. And then I encourage them. Not sure if this is correct or not, but I'm like, it's not supposed to be a line item on your budget that you are making money on. It is supposed to be a, hey, we need you to pay attention and then let it go.
Dawn Bauman [00:05:28]:
Denise, you're absolutely right. Actually, some legislators have said this may not be a budget line item.
Denise Haas [00:05:37]:
Oh, I love that.
Dawn Bauman [00:05:37]:
I didn't realize that some legislators have said that. And by the way, it should not be a budget line item. The goal is utopia, right? Don't we all want utopia and world peace?
Denise Haas [00:05:49]:
We do.
Dawn Bauman [00:05:50]:
We all want everyone to be in line with their covenants. We want them to be reasonable. We want them to be enforced in a reasonable, fair and equitable way. We don't want to be like, ah, I saw you ping. Finding you. That's not what we want.
Denise Haas [00:06:04]:
That is true. Okay, I could stay on violations forever only because of how the boards are right now. How have the recent economic, social and environmental shifts impacted the way we think about neighborhoods and shared spaces? Particularly from COVID which is kind of what we started with.
Dawn Bauman [00:06:27]:
We definitely have. Although. Are you kind of sick of like Covid pre and post Covid? Yes, I'm so sick of the conversation. I'm sick of it. But it is true, right? There is a pre and the post Covid, and we are still reeling from some of the impacts. I think hybrid workplace being one of them as well. But so some of the shifts, I actually feel like as a community associate, as the community association industry, we need to be a stronger leader. And I think I can be part of that.
Dawn Bauman [00:07:02]:
We need to be a stronger leader when it comes to environmental and economic shifts and social shifts in our communities. We need to lead the pace on this, especially some of the environmental. We haven't been, as an industry, the leader that we could be. We should be pursuing policy positions that require associations to, when they have the time and the money, change their windows, change their lighting, make these buildings more environmentally efficient, make them more sustainable as well. So I think it's also. It's Covid and it's post Surfside. Some of the economic shifts that we're seeing certainly related to a heightened awareness of maintenance, a heightened awareness of the issues related to deferred maintenance, as well as funding for long term repairs and replacement in community associations, not just condominium buildings, but in community associations. So some of those economic shifts we're going to continue to see moving forward.
Dawn Bauman [00:08:08]:
What's important is for homeowners to know the cost of living in a home that's in a condominium or community association, because sometimes that's not well known. And we haven't done a great job as an industry to mandate that financial model to work. And so I think we're gonna see that opportunity in the coming years. Social as well. So listen, we've seen a lot of mental illness, we've seen a lot of depression, we've seen a lot of isolation. I have some neighbors just down the street. I love them. Norm and Marianne, phenomenal neighbors.
Dawn Bauman [00:08:47]:
They said to me just a couple weeks ago, they're in their 80s, live in a single family home on my street. And they said, I don't think we're ever going to go to the Kennedy center again because we just don't feel comfortable with the crowds, how we are so far from COVID And I was just shocked to hear that they're not the only ones to feel that way. They're not uber liberal, they're not uber conservative. They're just older. They're elderly adults that have made a decision in their lives that that might be too risky for them. And that just saddens me so much. I think that there are people who are more isolated than they were before because of just their level of comfort. Plus, we've all gotten so comfortable with working in our homes, being in our homes, being in a much smaller circle.
Dawn Bauman [00:09:42]:
I hope that as communities, we can lead the way in bringing people out of their homes. You know, as I was thinking through this podcast, I was thinking about bringing sure, as communities we can have social clubs. Just let's look at some of the active adult communities. We have a bunch of social clubs, we have a bunch of opportunities to get people out there. But it's more than that. It's also understanding people and understanding, like everyone should maybe take these personality trait tests and then look at who they are and understand what type of other personalities are out there and how to approach them and how to work with them. It's not just good for the workplace, it's really good for communities as well. I can walk down the street and sing and dance and be loud and that might like turn people off, I can't imagine.
Dawn Bauman [00:10:32]:
But it might make people, like, uncomfortable because I'm so outgoing and verbose. They might want to just pause for a minute and get to know me before I start giving them a hug. And so I think that's also going to be a piece that community associations can lead in is, hey, know your neighbor, neighbor, Know your neighbor and think about their personality traits and what they may need as you approach them.
Denise Haas [00:11:04]:
Sure. So it's interesting that you bring that up. It said, since in 2025, sociologists are calling it community recalibration. People seeking meaning, meaningful connections. After years of digital overwhelm. Research from the Pew Community Institute shows that neighborhoods with regular community events experience 23% resident satisfaction and up to 15% higher property values. And that's due to now they're creating a social infrastructure of the 15 minute radius. And I'm like, ooh, this is really fascinating.
Denise Haas [00:11:44]:
I was at a meeting on Friday where a developer talked about how they are building those communities now. And you know, it's socially accepted now that masks are seen everywhere. If you've got one on, it's okay. If you don't, it's okay too. But no, it's not seen as something taboo to be wearing one.
Dawn Bauman [00:12:05]:
Exactly.
Denise Haas [00:12:06]:
The other thing that you talked about in regards to the really understanding the financial investment that you're living with in regards to the environmental, the windows, things like that. It's so interesting you bring that up because at a meeting, another meeting I was at, the board was having trouble helping the homeowners understand how much it costs to do things versus what their monthly assessments were. And they said, denise, can you help us with this? And I said, yeah, I think we break down the cost of the components in their home so they actually understand if they lived in a single family home versus where they live now, a townhome, a condo, or their own single family home, why it would cost. And so I've worked diligently to put a pricing structure together to help an individual homeowner has no clue why we would want to fund our reserve or things like that to put that dollar value. So I can say, look, here's why you don't want to get a special assessment and have this amount hanging out there or be called to pay it in three minutes.
Dawn Bauman [00:13:14]:
I love that financial analysis. And one of the things that we talk about when we're looking at the cost of living and association is also the cost of deferred maintenance, which is there's a statistic out there, and I think it's, if there is deferred maintenance, your deferred maintenance is going to cost you approximately 35% more or a third more than it would have if you had done your maintenance on a preventative maintenance plan versus deferring the maintenance. So that cost of, of community association and condo living is so important to know. And it's important to know if you don't adhere to those costs when they come up, it's going to just cost everybody more. And that's not necessary.
Denise Haas [00:14:00]:
It really is not, which lends itself to the type of board members that we have nowadays. I think the board structure is changing. I think our boards are starting to understand more that this truly is a business and treating it like a business. For instance, getting them to hold meetings earlier, being willing to find a compromise and doing it via zoom versus in person, things like that. What have you experienced at a national level for how boards are set up and what do you see as the biggest change?
Dawn Bauman [00:14:32]:
So I see boards being under a microscope very often in the legislature by homeowners.
Denise Haas [00:14:39]:
Sure.
Dawn Bauman [00:14:39]:
I think what we're doing is we're seeing a shift as we continue to see, see growth in the community association housing model. It is desirable to build in a community association. Those of you, your audience who don't know. Municipalities love community associations because they defer their local municipal service offerings from the cost expenditure from the town, the locality to the association. So they are very desirable.
Denise Haas [00:15:11]:
If this conversation of hey, neighbor, is making you wish you had a better HOA community, check out my company, Five Keys, an HOA community management company dedicated to unlocking the full potential of every HOA community we manage. Find out more about our 5 Keys to Community Success at fivekeysscm.com now back to the show. Dawn, can you elaborate on that? Because it does tie a little bit to how hoas got started. And I think a lot of people in this world do not understand when I see some negative press happening about they're going to get rid of their HOA or they don't want to be a part of it, they're going to secede from the union type of thing. Can you help explain how that all came to be with hoas?
Dawn Bauman [00:16:04]:
Sure. And then I want to go back to those boards because that is a really important point.
Denise Haas [00:16:08]:
Sure.
Dawn Bauman [00:16:08]:
So for a local municipality, I'm actually going to use a different example. I'm going to use the city of Queen Creek, Arizona. Queen Creek, Arizona, which is a suburb of Phoenix, they have their local municipality, they have their planning and zoning committee. And a developer goes to them and says, hey, I have this property. I would like to build 25 homes on this property. The city of Queen Creek will almost always say, almost always say, sure, great. You have to start a community association for those 25 homes. You have to make sure the association handles the trash pickup, the beautification.
Dawn Bauman [00:16:55]:
There has to be some sidewalks in there, the roads have to be in there, they have to be maintained, they have to be lit. And that all has to be the responsibility of the association, which is a nonprofit organization. Keep in mind, and the locality, Queen Creek doesn't pay for any of that for those 25 homeowners, for those homes. The association has to. So that is very, very beneficial to the locality when they're developed, when they're approving that local development to put that responsibility on the association. So it's not a tax, it's not a financial burden on the locality. Of course, in most cases, there's no tax benefits, there's no tax deduction or that individual owner, they're paying their local property tax, same as the associate or the community that doesn't have an association. And they're paying for their HOA assessments as well.
Dawn Bauman [00:17:57]:
So that's typically how an association starts, of course, a condominium and a housing Cooperative is different because it's a multifamily unit or home. But I will say even if you have duplexes or fourplexes, the locality is going to require the same confront buyer and associates. And sometimes if these associations become very, the mandate from the locality becomes really sophisticated. There are some associations that have their own fire department, that have their own. They have to have recreational facilities, they have to have schools, hospitals, et cetera. There are some, you know, some nuances and how that all works. But they have to have stormwater management. You have to have a lot of these municipal like services that are all paid for and funded by the association.
Dawn Bauman [00:18:47]:
The association, who is that? It's not the big bad somebody. It's the individual owners in that community that contribute to the association fund. It's a nonprofit organization governed by a board of directors and all volunteer board, individual homeowners, your neighbors that are serving on that board. So it becomes then that homeowner association. Now most states, almost every state in the union has a framework, a legal framework for how those community associations are organized, developed and managed. So there's some structure, at least on that front.
Denise Haas [00:19:28]:
Thank you for explaining that because I know so many people out there have no idea how it really came to be and what the value it is that it brings. We can go back to the board now a little bit because I know that you didn't get to finish your thought there, but thanks for being willing to go sideways.
Dawn Bauman [00:19:43]:
I do want to just say about the boards. So board members are. There are millions of board members in the US and serving their community associations. And most of them, they're all elected by their neighbors. Most of them are doing a great job and they are doing it out of the goodness of their heart and their doing the best they can with the professional support of management and other business partners that serve them, that help them, whether it's accounting or insurance or attorneys. I think what we're seeing is that we're seeing an evolution of the dynamic of what that board member does. We used to have less sophisticated communities. We used to have less complicated laws.
Dawn Bauman [00:20:25]:
Now we have more complicated laws, more requirements, lots of complications or not complications, lots of complex ideas and activities related to reserve funding, maintenance, those types of things that a layperson, an average volunteer isn't going to have the skill and expertise to do. So then what do they need to do? This is almost like looking at a corporation that has expertise in each area. So that volunteer board member, the role of that board member is evolving to a true corporate board Member that is going to rely on experts and expertise to handle all of the operations and governance of that community association. So it's a higher level that's working with professionals to make sure that community is thriving and is the best, best community it can be for those homeowners. We are seeing a shift in the need for reliance on more professionals as well as a higher level. We're not just talking about somebody who's walking around their community knocking on people's doors and saying, you should take your trash can in. We're not that. Although that maybe should be a first step because individual board members do live in the community.
Dawn Bauman [00:21:50]:
And so being a neighbor in that community is going to be really important. And I think as we continue to see the evolution into that corporate level board member, we're going to continue to see a higher level of respect by neighbors for those board members instead of a that board member. They keep like saying, I did this. I think we're going to see less of that and more of an appreciation for the work that these workers do.
Denise Haas [00:22:15]:
Boy, I sure hope so. That's been a long time in coming and well earned by several of them that I work with. If you could wave a magic wand that would fix one thing about associations and the industry as a whole, what would you wave? What would it be?
Dawn Bauman [00:22:30]:
The magic wand would wave over all of the homeowners and have them have an understanding of the financial model and the operational model of a homeowners association that would be, in one stroke, 77 million people understanding how that community association works, its benefits and how it works.
Denise Haas [00:22:56]:
Ooh, I agree with that. And my wand would be out there right with you. You just stated something.
Dawn Bauman [00:23:02]:
You can do it, by the way.
Denise Haas [00:23:03]:
We can do it, Heather.
Dawn Bauman [00:23:05]:
We can do that.
Denise Haas [00:23:06]:
We are working on a homeowner training model right now to do with homeowners. But we're going to start backwards. We're going to start with a real estate agent to better educate them.
Dawn Bauman [00:23:16]:
I think that's a great place to start. I do think a real estate agent has the responsibility to make sure that those individual homeowners have a thorough understanding of what living in that community looks like.
Denise Haas [00:23:31]:
Well, I think there's that. And sometimes real estate agents, and I understand where it comes from, they just get in a hurry and they forget that each association is set up just a little bit differently one to the other. That's why we can never compare apples to apples, especially as much as boards or homeowners want us to. When they talk about the association down the street doesn't have to pay something. But you cited something and I was at a conference with you last year, it was the CEO mc and you put some great statistics up that I thought have been fascinating. So you just said 77 million homeowners.
Dawn Bauman [00:24:08]:
Yes.
Denise Haas [00:24:09]:
How many associations are there?
Dawn Bauman [00:24:12]:
Do you. There are about 380,000 associations in the US 380,000. In 1970 there were 10,000. And so we're talking about associations. The average, interesting. The average number of homes or units in an association is about 140. So we think of you right there. You have Highlands, Highland Ranch, all over the country there are these big beautiful, amazing community associations with 1500-205005-00010,000 homes in that and maybe some condominiums, some gardens style, some townhomes.
Dawn Bauman [00:24:54]:
The average association is 140 units and likely is a multifamily housing with like maybe a town home. And the common elements are really only walkways, stairwells and an entrance. So these big beautiful, lavish community associations, they're phenomenal and I love it when I have the pleasure and privilege to visit them. That's not typical. A typical association is much smaller and we. And a typical association doesn't have all the amenities that some of these very large associations have.
Denise Haas [00:25:32]:
Fascinating. Thank you for sharing that.
Dawn Bauman [00:25:34]:
Well, another statistic, interestingly, about 45% of that 380,000 is condominium associations. And then the other about 50, about 50 plus percent homeowners association and then there's less than 5% is a housing cooperative. And the condominiums can really be an affordable option for first time home buyers or retired individuals as well. So making sure that we have economic security in those buildings is going to lead to positive mental and physical help for those homeowners.
Denise Haas [00:26:15]:
I can't wait to see it. Do you feel like we're still building condos at the rate that we were five, ten years ago?
Dawn Bauman [00:26:24]:
Well, data shows that we are not building condos at the same rate that we were five, 10 years ago. And I think that's for a couple of reasons. One of the main reasons is because a lot of these condominium buildings that are being built are high end condo buildings or apartments. So there's such a need for affordable housing and developers are finding a better return on their investment if they're building an apartment versus an affordable condominium building. And if they build a condominium building, it's going to be high rise, it's going to be luxury and it's not going to fill that affordable housing need. And so the Return on investment. The math is there. The developers are building apartments faster than they're building.
Denise Haas [00:27:14]:
So interesting you say that because just I think last Thursday or Friday they were talking about they gave a report of the vacancy rating and now rental rates are going down and their apartments are not being filled. So it's very cyclical in our industry, be it if you're on the developer side, the association side, or some other side of the coin, but it is very cyclical.
Dawn Bauman [00:27:39]:
And I'll say don't be fooled. I'm a little hesitant to even say this, but don't be fooled. The reason that developers are not building condos is because of that return on investment. They're getting more money from the apartment investment. The developers. Some will have. You think it's because they are exposed to a warranty protection, level of warranty protection for those owners that is unattainable. That is incorrect.
Dawn Bauman [00:28:11]:
That is masking why some developers are developing apartments versus I have heard that.
Denise Haas [00:28:19]:
Thank you for going into that. I wish we had more time because I would have you go into that in a little more depth.
Dawn Bauman [00:28:24]:
I probably. It's a little risky.
Denise Haas [00:28:26]:
It is a little risky. Okay. Well, I can't believe we've come to the end of our time. So I want to ask you in closing today, what excites you most about the future of community living?
Dawn Bauman [00:28:38]:
What excites me the most is we're here to stay, and we are here to stay as a form of housing. And again, I think the level of professionalism of board members and the level of technology that's available is going to lead the way to just even more satisfaction of people living in their communities and the ability for us as an industry to continue to have such a very positive impact on the people living and working in communities as.
Denise Haas [00:29:10]:
Amen. Thank you. I cannot thank you enough for being on here today and teeing us up. Now. I wish I had another half an hour because you just started to scratch the surface for me. So.
Dawn Bauman [00:29:24]:
We like to leave them hanging. We always like to leave them wanting a little more. Right. But I will come back anytime you want. It's an honor to be here. I'll come back anytime.
Denise Haas [00:29:33]:
Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you again, Dawn.
Dawn Bauman [00:29:35]:
My pleasure. Thank you.
Denise Haas [00:29:39]:
So at the end of every podcast, we want to give you a good neighbor to neighbor tip in our Hey Neighbor podcast. So for today's tip, I wanted to talk about start a neighborhood mentorship program. And what I mean by that is connect your longtime residents with newcomers for some informal guidance. You know, those small tips that happen behind the scene that you just don't realize are happening. But man, as soon as someone violates it, somebody's upset about it. So with that, I want you to really think about how do you, in your neighborhood, connect those longtime residents to your newcomers and create that program that really helps create a neighbor to neighbor welcoming environment and builds community. So I wish you luck. We'll see you next time on Hey Neighbor.
Denise Haas [00:30:45]:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Hey Neighbor. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts for more insights on building better communities together.