The Off Market Mindset

Strap in—this week on Off Market Mindset, host Michael Riordan sits down with military‐vet‐turned‐real estate powerhouse Shawn McArthur. Shawn’s journey starts with his very first flip—a meth house renovation completed while he was still on active duty in the Army—and rockets through a breakout career selling 30 homes in his first six months as an agent (53 that first year, 55 the next) before diving full-throttle into fix & flips and multifamily investing.

You’ll hear how Shawn:

Leverages dual expertise as both a licensed REALTOR® and an investor to craft smarter solutions for sellers and clients.

Built a cash‐offer & creative‐finance engine off team‐driven inbound leads—no paid ads required.

Set his “Mount Everest” goal: helping 50,000 real estate agents get into investing within five years.

Overcame massive mistakes—including a contractor partnership that cost him over $60K in holding costs and hard lessons on vetting collaborators.

Champions community & mentorship as the ultimate shortcut to success, closing the experience gap by years when you learn from others.

What You’ll Learn

How to integrate creative financing strategies (subject‐to, seller-carry, cash offers) into your agent toolkit to serve clients in tight equity or foreclosure scenarios.

The mindset shift from “sales scripts” to relationship-first selling—why authenticity wins over fancy frameworks.

Real-world budgeting & project management tips to avoid expensive rehab overruns.

The power of paying forward your knowledge—and why teaching agents to invest is a win-win for clients, teams, and your bottom line.

Whether you’re a part-time agent craving faster paydays or a seasoned investor scaling multifamily deals, Shawn’s hard-earned insights will give you fresh tools and the motivation to take imperfect action.

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#OffMarketMindset #RealEstateInvesting #FixAndFlip #CreativeFinance #Multifamily #AgentSuccess #VeteranInvestor #MindsetMatters

Creators and Guests

Guest
Shawn McArthur

What is The Off Market Mindset?

Exclusive Guest Interviews
your front-row seat to the real-world playbook of creative real estate investing. Each week, host Michael Riordan sits down with deal-makers who thrive outside the conventional mortgage box—think subject-to specialists, seller-finance pros, lease-option architects, note investors, master-lease tacticians, and more.

Behind The Scenes Stories
Pulls back the curtain on our guests creative real-estate deals, revealing the late-night negotiations, surprise setbacks, and clever pivots that never make the highlight reel. Host Michael Riordan walks you through real time situations to give you a first hand perspective into what creative real estate is really like.

Real Time Strategies
We dive into real transactions alongside investors who are knee-deep in the action, using creative financing to solve homeowners’ toughest challenges. Together we unpack every tactic—how they sourced the lead, structured the terms, and navigated the roadblocks—so you can see exactly what it takes to move a deal from problem to payoff.

Michael Riordan:

You're now tuned in to the Off Market Mindset. Where real estate gets real.

Michael Riordan:

Hey, guys. Welcome to the off market mindset. My name is Michael Reardon. I'm the host, and I'm joined here by Sean McArthur. We're just joking.

Michael Riordan:

If you wanna call him McArthur, you could do that as well. But, what we're gonna be covering today, Sean is a fix and flipper. He's also in the multifamily space, but he's got a really, really cool goal as well. He calls it a Mount Everest, which is a five year goal where he wants to help 50,000 real estate agents get into real estate investing for themselves. A little bit of more background on Sean, not only is he an investor, but he's also a real estate agent as well.

Michael Riordan:

And are you just an agent or are a realtor as well, Sean?

Shawn McArthur:

Also a realtor.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah. Realtor. Okay. So just to elaborate, there's a big difference because I'm a realtor as well. Right?

Michael Riordan:

So same thing. But does it sound like I hit everything? I mean, is there anything that I missed or anything you want to elaborate on for people listening or

Shawn McArthur:

or not? It's been, you know, a huge goal that just kind of a shift from I got out the military in 2022. Was in the army and just kind of been a shift, getting into the real estate agent space and then fix and flip and then multifamily. And it's really cool to see that come back full circle, like we talked about with the Mount Everest to be able to now really have a passion for helping veterans too, and some side projects, but really helping agents now that been in that world to get them into investing and to do that. Think it's really, really cool.

Shawn McArthur:

It's been a huge mission and a huge thing we want to work on, but it's really cool to see that kind of come full circle and be able to work towards that.

Michael Riordan:

That's pretty cool, man. And let me ask you, were you a realtor first or did you get into investing first?

Shawn McArthur:

It was kind of both at the same time. So I did my first fix and flip while I was still active duty in the army. It was actually my very first house ever was a meth house. Do not recommend doing that for your first flip. It was a it was a challenge, but we got through it.

Shawn McArthur:

And then I didn't, I kind of held back a little bit pulled back a little bit from the investing side while I was getting the education. I did that one before I joined sub two. And so I kind of just didn't know some education pieces lacking. Then I went full time into real estate as an agent. I actually got into the military early to get into real estate I just fell in love with it, all aspects I knew I wanted to do investing that was always my goal.

Shawn McArthur:

Just became an agent I was like no I really want to focus on this learn the skill ended up selling 30 in my first six months as an agent and then my first full year sold 53. And then last year 55 as an agent. And so just kind of doing that a little bit now been kind of pulling back.

Michael Riordan:

That's awesome. Me stop you for a second. Right. So 30 in your first year and then 55 by the end of the year, 30 in your six months and then 55 in your first year by the end of the year. Yeah.

Michael Riordan:

The average real estate agent sells like four properties a year, right? Like, how did you get that much success just coming into real estate?

Shawn McArthur:

Yeah, man, it's I'm not a great salesperson at all. So I realized that very quickly. Just I'm terrible at sales. I've been working on improving it, but I just that's not really my personality. I'm always, like, working on it and working on improving because I know sales is super important to help people.

Shawn McArthur:

Really, my goal was to help people. And really what was super power I joined an awesome team that had a lot of the systems in place. And so their goal was to was to change lives and impact more lives. And that really resonated with me about how to just improve, like, we align really well with that. So the goal at the end of the day wasn't to sell a house, sell a house, sell a house.

Shawn McArthur:

It was like, a family's life, change a life, change a life. And that really impacted me. And then from there, really, it was just super hard work. I was used to working crazy hours with the military. So I just kind of took that over.

Shawn McArthur:

And honestly, most agents, there are some to do a lot of them have a great, you know, structure. I wanna work these many hours, but most of them kind of don't. And so I was able to, like, move past a lot of my peers just because I worked more steadily and quicker and stuff than they did. So

Michael Riordan:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Then there's a saying, it's hard work beats talent when talent don't work hard. Right?

Shawn McArthur:

A thousand percent.

Michael Riordan:

And one thing that you said, I think you should probably change your mindset on this, is you said that you're not good at sales. You you need to learn sales. You are sales. Right? Like, at the end of the day, people don't buy because of anything other than the fact that they like you and they trust you.

Michael Riordan:

It's just, I think, where people look at sales, a lot of people look at sales like, oh, you have to know all the right things to say, and you have to be able to overcome objections and all this other stuff. But I mean, if you build a good enough relationship, sometimes people naturally sell more just because they attract people to them based on their personalities and who they are. You know? And I come from a very strong sales background. I was, doing sales professionally since 2016.

Michael Riordan:

I sold everything from timeshares to vacation packages to Amazon coaching, real estate leads. I'm sure you've gotten those phone calls before. Yeah. You know, and at the end of the day, it's always when I try to use the fancy scripts and frameworks and everything else that, you know, your numbers kind of, like, fall down. It's the most important thing is injecting yourself into the frameworks.

Michael Riordan:

Just like you said, you know, you started at the brokerage and you had all the right tools, the right resources, you had an amazing team and support. You know, that's all it's really about. Right? And as long as you have the structure, your work ethic, and who you are as a person is really what's going to drive you forward when it comes to your sales. You know?

Michael Riordan:

So, I think you're giving yourself a little less credit than you deserve. Right? But, so you had focused on the investment side in the very beginning, then you kind of got off of it, then you got into real estate, and now you're full circle into investing now. So what was it that really put a fire under you to get back into investing, especially after that much success in real estate? Because, I mean, you can imagine most people, they'd like, Oh, this is great.

Michael Riordan:

I'm not going to do anything else. I'm the man, you know?

Shawn McArthur:

It was just I always knew long term like that was the vision always was investing. It was always to build that business. So everything I was doing, I was focusing really hard on being an agent because I wanted a really good background because like as I started pulling back from it, wanted to have that skill set and knowledge to be able if I'm going to help coach and mentor, which I've fell in love doing, that's kind of what I do more now is like coaching and mentoring other new agents. Want to be like, hey, had the success. I do, you know, sold over a 100 homes in two years.

Shawn McArthur:

Like, you know, I somewhat know what I'm doing with this. Like, I can help you get to where you want to go. And so I really wanted to go all in. I didn't want to just kind of have to do it on the side because I knew the clients honestly deserved a better experience and there's someone who's kinda just partially kind of into it. I'm sold enough to I knew enough how to sell enough.

Shawn McArthur:

I I really wanted to get dive into that world. And I think long term, it's gonna build a lot of great relationships from it. But in the in the background, I was just learning a joint step two, joined Gator, eventually joined owners club. So I was just adding a little more knowledge in there, buying a couple rentals here and there, of getting things ready. And then one day, my partner that runs the team, Matt, he would we just had a conversation.

Shawn McArthur:

I was like, hey. I wanna start an investment company. I I think we've got a lot of opportunity here. Let's partner and do this thing. So we ended up starting a flipping company from the team leads that came in.

Shawn McArthur:

We have a cash offer program. I was like, instead of giving these to some big company, like, let's just take these down. And so we started doing that. And then, you know, now we've got four or five active flips right now, all of them completely zero marketing on the investment side of things, all team inbound driven. So we're not really paying for leads.

Shawn McArthur:

And then it just gives us another tool in a toolbox to help those sellers. We can list your home, you know, we can buy it for cash for flip it. We have creative finance. Now it's another tool in our tool belt if they don't have equity. So we've got more and more tools we're able to give to these sellers to help them give more tools for the agents to be able to show them how to do it.

Shawn McArthur:

And it's kind of a win win for everybody. So it's been it's been really, really cool to kind of see that start growing and building and getting traction and momentum there.

Michael Riordan:

Nice, man. Okay. And I know we kind of like talked a little bit earlier before we started this. And I was telling you, like, one of my Mount Everest is like a mini Mount Everest, guess you would say is helping real estate agents to be able to utilize real estate investing and creative finance within their business to be able to help their clients better, as well as to help them increase their income. Because here's the two issues that I see.

Michael Riordan:

One is exactly what you said, right? If you got a part time realtor, they're halfway in halfway out, how are they actually going to be able to help their clients to their fullest potential, right? A lot of agents, they're juggling full time jobs, them being full time parents. And then they've got that little time in between where it's like, Okay, I can focus on my client for this half an hour today to try to help them out, right? And I think that's okay in the beginning because everyone has to start somewhere.

Michael Riordan:

But when it comes to being a professional, being licensed and having a career in this, that's why most REALTORS or REAL ESTATE agents, let's say, don't make it in the industry. The statistics on it are crazy. Seventy five percent of REAL ESTATE agents don't make it past their first year. And within the first five years, eighty seven percent of don't make it. So, that's crazy to think about that.

Michael Riordan:

And, you know, in the beginning doing investing, I was like, well, you know, realtors suck. Know, realtors are idiots and they don't know anything and, you know, that's why they're not successful and blah, blah, blah. And I was sitting here complaining about realtors because I think part of my frustration was being a REALTOR, trying to work with other REALTORS and how difficult that they can make our job. Right? So I started looking at it from a different mindset. Instead of complaining about the problem, it's like, Okay, well, how can we find a solution for this and how can we help them? When I started looking at things with empathy instead of looking at things like, know, I'm the man type mentality, like the alpha dog mentality. Actually, I don't want to say that because a real alpha helps people, right? But when I started looking at it from a different mentality where it's like, Okay, I want to be as paced as a go giver. I want to help

Michael Riordan:

people. That's when my mind shift really happened. And it's like, Okay, well, if that's their problem, how can we help them solve that? Right? And what I feel is going to help them faster is learning real estate investing.

Michael Riordan:

And it's not just investing for themselves, but also learning investing for their clients so they can help them better. Right. Like you said, in a no equity situation, foreclosure, the sales coming next week type deal where a realtor can't list that property or an agent can't list, you know, creative finance solves that problem. Right. And it also will bring them a paycheck a lot faster because if it's off market, now they can get paid in a week, a couple of days, two weeks.

Michael Riordan:

It doesn't have to take six months for them to get a paycheck, which is usually the problem for most real estate agents. They can't wait for that check. They've got families to take care of. So, you know, I think that incorporating investing into their business strategy, it only helps to improve what they're trying to accomplish. Now, once that happens and once they're successful and they've got the money to be able to take care of their families, now it's, okay, well, I'm successful in real estate.

Michael Riordan:

How do you continue to help your clients at a higher level? And that's really where this comes in as well, and like you were saying. But let's talk about what you're looking to accomplish with getting realtors and real estate agents into investing. Because it sounds like your Mount Everest is more focused on the agents and helping them with investing, like to learn it for themselves. Is that correct?

Michael Riordan:

Or

Shawn McArthur:

Yeah. So it's going back a little bit to what you said about the 87% not making the business. I think there's a few reasons for that. And one is we talk a lot about our people in the news always say agents are overpaid. Well, if you think about it, you're like, you peel back the onion, you're like, how are agents overpaid?

Shawn McArthur:

But there's an 87% turnover rate within five years and most of that within the first year. And so you look at it and you're like no other industry has nearly a 90% turnover rate in five years. And it also says that they're overpaid. So you have to kind of look at it and go, alright, well, where's the disconnect? So most agents, to be honest, are overpaid.

Shawn McArthur:

And the reason is, it's not that they don't do enough and like that real estate agents are overpaid in general. It's just that they didn't do very much about transaction or for their clients. And then the clients perceive them as being overpaid, because all they knew how to do was to open a lockbox for them, take them to a property, send them Zillow listings, and they close the transaction, they didn't advise them, they didn't, you know, negotiate for them, they don't do a lot of stuff that agents are supposed to do. And they don't have that professional status of an agent. And so that's why typically agents get that bad rap.

Shawn McArthur:

And so that that's one part of the problem is just education piece, which I think you're you're working to solve us teaching people through investing is also going to help solve. And the second piece of it, there's such a huge turnover rate because in general real estate agents, one if they make it in the business, they're 65 years old out there still selling houses, you know, everyone knows that seven year old agent that's on oxygen out there at the open house trying to still sell real estate and they still sell 30 homes a year or 20 homes a year. It's such a hamster wheel. And the issue with it is there's no way to build a sustainable business for most agents is the problem or most of them just don't build one. And so we really wanted to do is to teach them how to invest so they can still pay focus on your superpower.

Shawn McArthur:

Most of the agents, most of my friends I talked to don't really want to start an investment business. They don't want to own 100 rentals. They don't want to go out and flip 30 homes a year, that's just not what they want to do. But if we can help them to invest into it, I mean, if you take 20% of your things for a year, and you sell 20 or 30 homes, and you invest that year after year after real estate, don't have to work till you're 65. You know, there's different ways to also build some of that passive income up.

Shawn McArthur:

But like, we can start helping them invest into real estate part of their commission, they can still focus on their superpower. You don't need to go learn a new skill set. But then they can also at the same time, they can also help clients at a better level because now they invest themselves. They know how to buy a rental property. They know how to invest in the multifamily.

Shawn McArthur:

They're understanding the terms, the lingo so that way they can help clients at a different level than just like, alright. Well, let me know when you want me to open that door for you. I mean, that's awesome. But, you know, down the road, you know, automatic lockbox can do the same thing. So, like, how can we help provide value at a higher level?

Shawn McArthur:

I mean, that's been, I think where that gap is. And I think you see that too. And I think this is these are what kind of those bridges come together to be able to help agents at that higher level. And so that that turnover rate isn't 87%. Now, maybe a lot of people shouldn't get in the business in general, like, that's just part of it.

Shawn McArthur:

Everyone's gonna have that. But if we can knock that down in five years, if people can make it pass their first year, now maybe the turnover rate is only 50% in five years. Cool. Like, that's a huge difference. And that's and that's also serves people at a better level, because that way there's not 60,000 new agents coming and going every year.

Shawn McArthur:

There's no ever there's no veterans in the space. There's only a few people. There's tons of new agents coming in. We can have a more veteran, you know, industry. It just helps everybody at a at a much higher level.

Michael Riordan:

Oh, yeah. And I mean, one thing about it, though, and it is the fact that, you know, we do get paid good as agents. Right? I think that attracts the wrong people to the industry as well. Right?

Michael Riordan:

And I think that honestly, I think that NAR should do a better job of filtering people coming into the industry. And why I say that is I'm actually one of those statistics when it comes to the realtor side of things. And it's not because I wasn't good at it. It's because I didn't really like it. And I looked at it like I could make a lot of money, but when I started doing real estate, even though I was really good at it, I just didn't feel any connection to it, and I didn't even try, Right?

Michael Riordan:

I think my first year in the industry, I didn't have 30 something sales. I closed four deals. And it was I just didn't care to try at all because it was, like, really boring. I felt like people didn't listen to the advice that you gave them. Another thing is the support that you have as well.

Michael Riordan:

You know, when I first got in, I didn't have that team that you had, and I was just trying to figure things out on my own. I've been an entrepreneur before, but not to a scale where I mean, I can't say that I had a car wash business. I was doing a couple thousand dollars a week sometimes. You know, it was mobile. I was doing it out of my car.

Michael Riordan:

I didn't have any professional equipment or nothing. It was all word-of-mouth because I worked really hard. Right? So I can't say it's that I didn't have the experience as an entrepreneur, but I didn't have the experience with systems. I didn't have experience with processes and all that other stuff.

Michael Riordan:

I built a successful business off of hard work, but I didn't really know how I did it, you know? And then the funny thing is, found out about investing. It was my first transaction. I had a listing, and it was a hybrid sub two. So, the person that purchased the property, they bought it, they took over the person's mortgage, and then they made payments to their equity for them.

Michael Riordan:

So I thought it was a really interesting concept, And over the years, I continued to sell four or five houses a year, just barely trying. And at some point, was like, you know what? I hate this. This isn't worth it. I don't like what I'm doing.

Michael Riordan:

It doesn't matter how much money that I make. And I was I think I made an average of $50,000 It wasn't substantial or anything like that, but I mean, I did better than most people and I wasn't even trying. So I started looking into the investing and the guy that bought the first house for me, I stayed in contact with him and I saw he's posting every single month. Oh, I got this new house or we're flipping this house. I just helped this person with their foreclosure.

Michael Riordan:

I helped this other person. And I was like, you know what? I don't want to give up on real estate. Maybe I'm just in the wrong area of it. So I started looking more into investing and it really caught my eye and it seemed really interesting.

Michael Riordan:

So that's what really got me into it was just my interest grew and grew and grew. And what I love about it is I feel like I'm actually helping people in a bad situation versus the people that are entitled, and they're not listening to you telling them to put in a certain offer. They're not listening to you when you go over their house, and you're like, Okay, I think you should sell it for this price because of these comps in your specific neighborhood and blah, blah, blah. And they're like, no, I want to list it for $100,000 more or $50,000 more. And you're like, Why did I waste my time with you?

Michael Riordan:

Whereas you've got someone in a foreclosure, they've got children, they're married, their whole life is in that house, and they're about to lose that house, Not only are they dealing with foreclosure, they're probably dealing with mental issues, maybe possible thinking about suicide, depression. These people are displacing their children. It's going to affect their children as well. So what I like about it is, and it's kind of like what you were saying, is it's having all the tools available. What I try to focus on is not just how can I buy this person's house?

Michael Riordan:

First is, can this person keep their house? You know, and sometimes it's as simple as, hey, do you have a 401 ks? I forgot all about that. Thank you so much. Okay, great.

Michael Riordan:

We'll get your four zero one ks and you know, save your house, right? Or do you have a friend or family member, your rich uncle that you can borrow the money from that would help you out? Like, something that gives them an idea they didn't think about. If they can't keep the house, then it's where you offer to help them out. Right?

Michael Riordan:

And maybe they can't keep the house, but you're going to save their credit from a foreclosure. Right? And then on top of that, while you're making the payments, you're going to help fix their credit and rebuild it. So now, we're able to help people out to restart their life faster. And then during that transition where they do have to leave the house, well, what other resources can I provide?

Michael Riordan:

Can I provide moving assistance? Can I buy a storage unit for them for a couple months to keep their stuff? Can I provide them with mental health counselors in the area? Can I get them food? What can we do to help these people in the situation they are in?

Michael Riordan:

Because as investors, we do make a lot of money, right? But I saw this great video today actually, this morning, and this guy needed a haircut. He walked into the barbershop and he was homeless. And he was full beard, hair all dirty, stinking and everything. He was like, Oh, sir, I really need help.

Michael Riordan:

I don't have much money. Can you cut my hair? I have a job interview tomorrow. So the guy was like, yeah, sure. And he cut his hair and he turned down the money and he told him, here's a towel, go in the back.

Michael Riordan:

I don't have much, but there's soap and a sink back there and clean yourself up. And he gave him a jacket And he handed him a card and he said, I don't want your money. Pay it forward. Right? And in the video, the guy goes on to become a successful real estate agent and an investor.

Michael Riordan:

And it's funny because that's what we're talking about, but it's just the concept of the video. And the guy that helped him and cut his hair, he was selling his barbershop because he couldn't afford it anymore. And the guy was like much older. So the real estate investor bought his barbershop and he gave him the card. He held on to the card and he said, Here, I want you to continue to pay it forward.

Michael Riordan:

You helped me at the lowest point in my life. Right? And imagine that impact that that person made on that person that set up a spiral of events to where he was able to do something like that and help the person that helped him. Right? You know, like, many people can we help just by helping that one person in their situation?

Michael Riordan:

So, and I know that was long, long winded there, but I mean, it's just, I think that's why we're here, right? Like, just to provide as much value to people as possible and give a better understanding of what we're doing. So that way, let's say a realtor that you're talking to, they hear about, you know, real estate investing and they're like, oh, it's a scam or oh, it doesn't help people or oh, you're a predator. You're trying to hurt my clients. Oh, maybe we can revert them back to these videos and show them, listen, we are human beings, you know, and, at the end of the day, not everyone's out to get everyone, but if we can educate these agents for the people that are out there scamming because there are people that are doing it, right?

Michael Riordan:

I mean, we have to be realistic. They'll know what to look for.

Shawn McArthur:

But You know, we educate them too. Like, can also help them find the people that are scamming because, like, the issue of when you don't know the industry at all, you're prone to it because you receive a quick cash offer and you're like, this is awesome for we can get this for our client. Yeah. You may, like, they're a whole gonna they're try to wholesale. Like, you're already on market.

Shawn McArthur:

This client needs to close in a week. Like, they're just anyway, it's just and that's what the cool thing now is, like, on the team and the brokers are, that's I get those calls all the time. People forward me emails to be like, hey. Is this legit? Can you help me with this?

Shawn McArthur:

What does this look like? And I'm like, hey. You know, look at paragraph 16 on this this contract. This is definitely a wholesaler. They're not a cash buyer.

Shawn McArthur:

Like, hey. You know, you can't get them on the phone. Do they have a proof of funds? So we can help them get to the bottom of it to be able to go, no. This one's legit.

Shawn McArthur:

I would take this or no. This one's not a real person. Like, they're gonna move you you know, they're just gonna mess you around for a while. This proof of funds is fake. And so, like, what we can do is, like, as we're educating agents, we also help them serve their clients at a better level.

Shawn McArthur:

I think that's that's what it's all about. Like you said, it's being able to help that one person help that one agent help that one client. And that's the cool thing with investing side of things, which is why I agree. That's why I kind of fell in love with it more. You're I could sell a lot of real estate, but I really felt I just love solving bigger problems.

Shawn McArthur:

And so it's been cool because now I solve them for other agents on the team, which is awesome. Like, I get all the crazy deals and the crazy people and commercial and all that stuff. Everyone like, hey. How do you structure a seller finance deal? I've got a client needing to do that.

Shawn McArthur:

And it's cool because, like, our the sales manager will call me and ask questions, like, which I I love. Like, it's cool. Like, she gave back a ton to me when I was first starting. Now, it's cool to be able to give back to them. And so it's just Yeah.

Shawn McArthur:

You're right. Investing, we can solve problem. There is no cookie cutter. Listen for this. Get it for this.

Shawn McArthur:

It's it's just all about solving problems, getting creative with it. And I think that's a really awesome thing. And there are a lot of bad actors out there, but there's also a lot of people who are doing this for the right reasons. And you can make money and also do a thing for the right reason and help a seller. And it's really cool to be able to do both to make an impact, making money, but also change a lot of lives in the meantime, which I think is it's super great.

Michael Riordan:

Oh, yeah. And one thing to point out, too, is it's not just the small people running scams, right? And well, I don't want to call it a scam. It's a really bad sales tactic. But what you'll find with these big hedge funds is they'll come in, they'll offer over asking price, they get your sellers all excited.

Michael Riordan:

And unfortunately, I learned the the the hard way on this one, right? But, then they come in, they do an inspection, and they the price down $75,000 you know, dollars 100,000. And they're like, oh, your bathrooms are outdated.

Michael Riordan:

really? Like, I didn't know a bathroom cost $75,000 But, you know, it's knowing the tactics and the mistakes that are made in real estate investing. As a real estate agent, that's not only going to protect your client, but your reputation as well. Right? Because say that you get that offer and then they drop the price down and stuff, and then the seller finds out, well, oh, it was a hedge fund.

Michael Riordan:

And, you know, I saw that they do that all the time. Why didn't you know that? You're my realtor. Right? So, it also helps you even if you have no interest in investing at all.

Michael Riordan:

You should still understand investing because it's part of your business. And a lot of people may think that it's not Because they don't teach you in school about, you know, subject to, they don't teach you in school about creative financing and all that other stuff. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't know it and it's not part of your industry because it's 100% is. You're just not taking the time to educate yourself on the higher levels of what your industry has to offer. So, now, one thing I want to ask you when when you say like your broker, other agents in the company, they'll come to you for advice and stuff like that.

Michael Riordan:

Let's say that somebody watching this has a question about creative financing. Maybe they get an offer. You know, would they be able to reach out to you or?

Shawn McArthur:

Yeah, I love to connect with people. I've honestly recently that's been mostly what I've been doing is obviously still running real estate business and doing that stuff. I've really been trying to give back a lot more. And agents have just been like a really I've seen how hard a lot of them work. And I've seen how hard like I work doing.

Shawn McArthur:

And I've seen how many deals you work 60 in and they don't close, you don't get 1p. And that's very, very tough industry to be in. Unlike a car sales like that, where those timelines are much shorter, you know, like these these could be three months, six months, nine months, twelve months of follow-up, you go under contract, work through this, and you get nothing out of it. And I think that's really tough. Tough.

Shawn McArthur:

So yeah, I have a huge like soft spots for them. So yeah, of course, I would love anyone to reach out to me on social media is probably the best place just either Instagram or Facebook. Probably the two best ways right now. We're building out a community and a few things like that. But for right now, are probably the best and yeah, we'd love to help go over if you think something's a scam or a creative finance deal or something like that.

Shawn McArthur:

We'd love to help go over that with you and see how we can help your clients to make sure it's a better way. Or if you just wanna make sure, hey, this seems a little fishy. Something seems off with it. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not.

Shawn McArthur:

Just an investor just didn't go a great job explaining it, but it's really important to understand that. And, yeah, I would love to help answer any questions anyone has.

Michael Riordan:

Awesome, man. Okay. And what you should do, I'm gonna put your socials in the descriptions and stuff like that. But do you wanna give them your handles that they can, you know, read you on just in case?

Shawn McArthur:

Yeah. It's at the Sean McArthur, t h e, Sean McArthur on Instagram, Facebook, much everything. It's the same way. So you can find me there. We'd love to help answer those.

Shawn McArthur:

I do a pretty good job checking my DMs pretty regularly. So we'd love to help connect with you if you just have questions about real estate or joining our network or just you have questions just about investing or just having an issue with a deal. I love to help go over that with you and see how we can help.

Michael Riordan:

Awesome. Yeah. And, you know, if anybody does want to reach out to me as well, I'm also willing to help out. So, you already have all my info since you're watching my podcast, but, I'll have all my links in the description as well. But I know we touched on a lot about real estate agents and better educating them, helping them to be able to implement investing into their business as an agent.

Michael Riordan:

Let's talk more about yourself now, because the majority of it, we spoke about what you are trying to do to help other people. But obviously, you are a real estate investor as well. Being that you are in the multifamily space, you are looking to do fix and flips. If anybody watching this wants to send you deals, talk more about that and how they can maybe work with you to make some income with you.

Shawn McArthur:

Yeah, so right now, mostly locally, we're doing a lot of fix and flips, but we're in a very small area in Missouri, outside St. Robert's more likely probably not, you're probably not going to find a lot of flips there. But multifamily, we're looking for anything larger than 12 units, especially anything open to creative finance, we're looking to purchase, or if the seller is willing to carry some, we're open to that. And then other than that, what I've been doing a lot recently is just helping structure and JV with on people with deals wherever they're at. So if you need help, you've got a deal, you're just trying to make the numbers work or trying to figure out contracts or figure out a lot of that stuff.

Shawn McArthur:

Don't let that hold you back. I know that's one of the biggest misconceptions with real estate is you're like, I know I talked to a guy recently. He had two great wholesale deals. He just didn't know the paperwork, and he let them fall through because he didn't know how to get the paperwork filled out. So if you didn't know yeah.

Shawn McArthur:

Crazy and, like, he just had two deals. I'm like, hey, man. First off, you had two yeses, so congrats. Yeah. Don't let the paperwork ever stop you.

Shawn McArthur:

If you have questions, reach out to me. We'll get that taken care of. That's not a huge piece of the puzzle. So, yeah, we're working on JV ing with people a lot that just need help structuring deals, stuff like that. We're just seeing the connecting with local people.

Shawn McArthur:

We love to help do that. Or like Gator or stuff like that. We've been helping, like, get people connected with financing, that kind of stuff as well.

Michael Riordan:

But one thing to point out and and for anybody listening, the biggest thing that's going to stop you from being successful is ego, right? And if you think about what Sean just said, he found somebody. They had two wholesale deals that fell through because they didn't know the paperwork, right? It doesn't matter how much experience you have. You can always learn something.

Michael Riordan:

If you're not sure of something, seek for advice and help because that guy, he probably lost at least $30,000 between those two deals minimum, at least.

Shawn McArthur:

So Yeah. You really don't use the money too. And it's like, this sport is the least solo sport in the world. It's just real estate, you can do it for a little while you can go pretty fast on your own. But if you want to go long and far in this industry, you have to rely on other people, the most successful people that I know, none of them are doing this entire thing by themselves.

Shawn McArthur:

Like they've got a team, they JV with people, They support people. They work together. They're super collaborative. And that's really where that's what really sets apart us and sets you an owners club and some of these communities apart from others is, like, it's really collaborative. You're like, hey.

Shawn McArthur:

What's working for you? Here's exactly what's working. Here's my playbook. Like, let me tell you exactly what's working. And it's awesome when people reach out to us.

Shawn McArthur:

Like, we're we love to sure, man. Let's work on this deal together. Let's partner on this thing. Let's collaborate. Let's see how we can work together.

Shawn McArthur:

Let's both make money. Like, that's really, really awesome thing as people can work together on a lot of different aspects and industries. It's not like sometimes even like the agent world where it's kind of like everybody's hush-hush and keeping every deal together. That's my lead. That's my thing.

Shawn McArthur:

Don't talk to my person. And that's where our community is so cool is like people send me a wholesale deal that they're trying to get under contract and they're not worried about me trying to go snake that deal and steal that seller. And I'm like, no, I just need more information. So I know how to help you. Like, I'm not trying to steal a deal from you.

Shawn McArthur:

I don't really want your deal. I want to work with you and collaborate. If I get nothing out of it, I'm glad to help. And then sometimes, you know, we can also work together and make this a more collaborative thing long term and both make money together, which is even more awesome. So

Michael Riordan:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and I think what you just said is important. Like, when you have, like, that pay it forward go getter, go giver mentality. Right?

Michael Riordan:

You're focused on how you can help people. But let's not get it misconstrued. The whole goal is to help other people, but if you're helping other people without expecting anything in return every single time, you're going to be the greatest guy in the world, but you're also going to be broke. Right? So, you know, the whole point of this is, you know, you also want to make sure that you're leaving a lasting impression on somebody while you're helping them because the whole goal is we want to continue to do business together.

Michael Riordan:

If I can help you or if you can help me to improve myself and my business, I'm going to remember that it's the law of reciprocity. So then, say that I do get a deal, I'm more likely to come to you when you help me versus, you know, go and send it to other people. So, I mean, having that go giver mentality is, you know, how many people can I help? Cause you want to build that network of people. And let's say that you never did a deal with them ever, and they don't come back to you, at least you were able to help them.

Michael Riordan:

But, you know, most people, you're going to want them to continue to do business with you. So that way, you can keep helping them and helping their clients. Right? Is all just a big spider web. Well, that is pretty cool, man.

Michael Riordan:

And, is there, I guess, like any specific thing that you would say that has led to your point of success right now as an investor that you'd want to share with?

Shawn McArthur:

The biggest thing, honestly, is community getting around the right community, right? Yeah. So really, honestly, it's about getting around the right community, being around the right people. I think that is the number one thing you can. There's so much information out there that can be really easy to think.

Shawn McArthur:

I can just take free information. I can just take go to YouTube and watch x y z or on a chat GBT and pull information. But the problem is, one, information, you're only getting bits and pieces of it. And it's tough to aggregate that together into actual actionable items. And if you're

Michael Riordan:

not watch, the more questions you have. Right?

Shawn McArthur:

So Literally. It gets you actually can sometimes set yourself back because then you're like, now there's this. So now there's this thing. And then getting around a mentor, a partner, a community that helps support that, I think is literally the difference of make or break for most people. Now some people can bootstrap it all and do the whole thing themselves.

Shawn McArthur:

Awesome. And I think there are some great people that can do that. But for the majority, percent plus of people, as I've been saying that, like, you're less of a person or less of an investor if you need help, like, we all do. So, like, get around the community, and it'll also set your pace up five years ahead of where you would be if you did on your own. So, like, that's that's been the cool thing.

Shawn McArthur:

Like, I've got three, four, five, ten years of experience in some things because I was around those people that had ten years of experience. And that's the cool thing is you can really shrink that gap between where you are where you want to go by sometimes paying to be in that room sometimes paying for that mentor, because now you're taking all of their skill set their expertise or advice and not making the same that they did. They cost them that same amount of money that you're paying them, which is really, really cool.

Michael Riordan:

Oh, yeah. And one thing to kind of point out is going back to the, you know, hard work beats talent when talent don't work hard. It doesn't matter how much of a community you have, it doesn't matter how much information you have, it doesn't matter how amazing your mentor is. If internally you don't want to be successful, you won't. You have to put in the time.

Michael Riordan:

You have to put in the effort. Take imperfect action because you're going to make mistakes. But with those mistakes, you're going to learn along the way. And that's why it's important to have a mentor and someone to guide you. That way you can kind of mitigate some of those mistakes.

Michael Riordan:

But at the same time, if you wait for everything to be perfect, you're going to be waiting your entire life for your success.

Shawn McArthur:

A 100%. It'll never ever be perfect. Even the top people in the entire world that are top of their industry make mistake. They're learning new things every day. And the difference between those who are continuing to improve are the ones that are continuing to make mistakes.

Shawn McArthur:

I heard it best recently that failure isn't an option. It's literally a requirement to be able to get to where you want to go. The successful aren't the ones running away from failure away from mistakes, they're running towards it, embracing that making that failure over and over and over again till they get it right. They make that, you know, it's just really the biggest thing is you just don't wanna fail to the point where it breaks you. So that's why getting around people and in communities that have those safety rails, I can make a mistake, but I'm not gonna fall off the cliff.

Shawn McArthur:

I've got guardrails up to where I can make a mistake, but I'm not going to jail. I'm not gonna go bankrupt off this deal. It's good to make failures and mistakes and work hard. You just gotta have something to some sort of safety rails or someone to ask to say, hey, should I buy this deal? You're like, no.

Shawn McArthur:

You're gonna be in $2,000,000 debt. Don't do that or whatever. You know, you're gonna make mistakes. It's just having those guardrails up so that you're not falling off the cliff and, you know, ending your investment career before you ever can get it started, you know? So.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah. No. A 100%, man. So now one last thing that I'd like to ask you here is when it comes to making mistakes, what is like the biggest mistake that you've made that you are able to learn from? Because I look at mistakes like lessons.

Michael Riordan:

Right? Some people say, oh, I failed. You didn't fail until you quit. So you might have temporary failures, but out of that failure, you are going to learn something. So for you, what was the biggest mistake or failure that you have had that you were able to learn from and that helped you to, you know, overcome?

Shawn McArthur:

Man, that's that's a great question. I know it's super easy, actually, on this one. So, like, I told actually our team recently on it that you can and that's why I'm so big on getting mentorship, paying for partnerships, paying for community, paying for coaching, whatever. Because I've got a lot of education I've intentionally paid for, and I've got a lot of education that I unintentionally paid for. And that's where those mistakes come in is that unintentional education that I'm like, hey, man.

Shawn McArthur:

I paid I made you know, that's the most expensive education I have. I learned a lot of lessons from it. But, could I put that $60,000 to something else? But yeah. So I had one.

Shawn McArthur:

Honestly, most of it was the biggest lesson I learned was partnerships and mostly with contractors. Contractors specifically, one, I really don't recommend ever partnering with one. At least me personally, I just it didn't work out super well. So and if you do partner with one or trust one, trust is only goes as far as that trust goes. And you'll never you never wanna give them too much leaps and bounds, especially your contractors.

Shawn McArthur:

Now you may have an awesome partnership with one that you've known for a long time, and that's great. You just gotta really be careful what people can talk the talk. And until they've supported that over and over and over again, it's talk is cheap, and that can be very expensive. So I had one a flip recently, end up being a few few flips that they did, that just ended up all not going that great. As I was doing reflection, I kept going, man, I'm selling these for exactly what I thought they should sell for.

Shawn McArthur:

I'm buying them right on the target. The budget that we start with is exactly what it should be, and I keep losing money on these deals or breaking even. I'm like, I don't understand how this is possible. I did three or four flips in a row. This is the same contractor that we had a great relationship.

Shawn McArthur:

I thought we were friends. We kinda started to you know, we ended up the last one, was like, hey, you know what? Let's just I wanna focus on getting more deals doing that. I don't really like design. Have you run the projects.

Shawn McArthur:

I'll tell you what the budget is. You run the project. You just handle the whole thing, and then we'll split profit. So I like the contractor that's been doing that. I let her just I gave the checkbook for the project.

Shawn McArthur:

We had money from the draws. Do it. The project ended up taking over a year to do. We're supposed to have it done in three months to I bought it in November, And I sold that little over a month ago. That's how long we had that project.

Michael Riordan:

Oh my god.

Shawn McArthur:

And the original budget was the I was supposed to sell it one at first. The original budget was 58,000 when he was gonna buy it. We ended up she took it over, and we were gonna finish the project that was gonna cost 80,000 to do. We bought it for 90. So there was a pretty big rehab budget, but only gonna be 80.

Shawn McArthur:

Ended in ended up over a budget ending over a $140,000 somehow. Still don't know how that is. We're we'll see how that ends up. I don't even know. I'm not sure how the well, back piece of it's gonna end up yet.

Shawn McArthur:

We'll still see. We're still working through that one. But it ended up I ended up costing me over $45,000 just in interest. Interest payments, loan payments, mortgage, just holding costs over $45,000, and then another 20 to 30,000 outside of that. So just that one deal cost probably 60 or $70.

Shawn McArthur:

But what I did from it is I learned even before it sold, learned a ton about, you know, budgets and wanting to have contractors sign and agreements. And then also, really, the biggest thing for me, I learned a lot of the other stuff with it, but was just about partnering with the right people. And you always wanna date before you kinda jump into that partnership marriage. And it doesn't matter how good they've done before or how good they talk. If their actions aren't aligning with what they're telling you, at a certain point, either they're lying to you or they're not as good as they say they are.

Shawn McArthur:

And either one can have the same effect on your business. Whether they're incompetent or they're stealing from you, the net result ends up kinda being the same. And so you really gotta filter through with that. And I and I still honest to this day, I don't know yet. I'm not sure whether they're incompetent and just not great at their job and bad at budgeting or she's intentionally stealing.

Shawn McArthur:

I think it's a little bit mix of both. But either way, the net result ends up being the same. And so as you're as you're vetting these partnerships and relationships, you always wanna give back to people, but you always gotta keep in mind kind of that little bit too of, like, one, are they an awesome person? Can you trust them? Are they have good ethics and morals?

Shawn McArthur:

They get a but, also, are they good at their job too? Because having a bad partner that they could be the greatest person in the world, but they're absolutely terrible at the responsibilities you give them and they don't manage things correctly can have a massive, massive impact and negative way on your business. So that's you got to have both sides of that coin. That was my biggest learning lesson from from all of that.

Michael Riordan:

Wow. Well, that's definitely an expensive lesson to learn. But hopefully somebody that's watching this will be able to learn from your mistake and not make the same mistake. But I mean, I think that, you know, we both know from Pace's story, not even after when you have everything in front of you, you don't always listen to somebody. And I know for Pace, it costs them over a million dollars.

Michael Riordan:

So but

Shawn McArthur:

Yeah. Well, that's a little bigger than mine. But, it's one of those things that hopefully that same mistake that he did and hopefully it's making a smaller and smaller and smaller mistakes that are less expensive.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah. Awesome, man. Well, listen, this was great. I think that, you know, you provided so much value on this and, again, just we're at the end of our time here. If you want to leave everybody with your Instagram and Facebook handles, how they can reach out to you one last time, just in case they missed it last time.

Michael Riordan:

And then just leave everybody with something that you want, like a message that you wanna put out there to the world as well.

Shawn McArthur:

Yeah. So we'd love to connect with anyone on Instagram is probably the best way at the Sean McArthur. Facebook's great too. I would love to connect with anyone. And then really the biggest thing and the last thing I'll leave with is get around those right community, those right people.

Shawn McArthur:

Pay for that mentor, pay for that partnership, pay for that community, to just get into that room. Like, it's it's gonna make your learning curve so much smaller just being around that right person, being around that right. And there's different ways to do that too. You can earn you can earn to play, you can pay for the education, you can also bring deals and learn that way. There's different ways.

Shawn McArthur:

You don't it's not necessarily just writing a check to someone, but find that mentor, find that partner. And it's going to be a massive, massive change both for you mentally as you're learning this business, but also just getting you a lot further down the road much quicker. That's kind of the last thing I would definitely leave everybody with.

Michael Riordan:

Nice, man. That's actually how I got started. I connected with somebody in the community that we're part of, and I'm not trying to sell the community or anything like that. But I connected with somebody. They showed me the ropes.

Michael Riordan:

I was able to make enough money where I was like, you know what? This is what I want to do. And then I actually went full into the mentorship. I mean, both of us, we spent, you know, a lot of money, and then we've also lost a lot of money doing the wrong things. So I was glad to, to be around people with the same mindset and mentality, that can continue to uplift my business.

Michael Riordan:

So that way, you know, I can do the same for others.

Shawn McArthur:

100%.

Michael Riordan:

Awesome, man.