Leaving CNBC and Gaining a Million Followers in a Year - Feat Uptin

Uptin spent years as a CNBC producer, where he launched the network's international YouTube channel in 2016 and quietly noticed something awkward: the videos he shot on his own iPhone in selfie mode outperformed the ones made with a professional crew. Then the pandemic hit, he was laid off, and he had to decide whether a million-view brand name meant anything without the brand.

In this episode, Uptin is specific about why he spent his severance on an editor from day one, how PR consulting in the mornings let him make content in the afternoons with no financial pressure, and how a single LinkedIn message turned into a Dubai agency he never meant to start and later sold. Plus the reason his agency deliberately had no Instagram or TikTok, why he once unfollowed Gary Vee and then told him so to his face, and his rules for delivery: trim 30% of the script, never say "hey guys", and talk like you're speaking to one person.

Topics covered: starting from zero · consistency · funding the early days · accidental agencies · scaling down · hustle culture · the craft of a good story

What is Creator Generation?

Creator Generation brings you behind the scenes of the creator economy, featuring top YouTubers and experts who share the strategies, lessons, and stories behind building successful channels, growing incredible businesses, and driving the world’s biggest online video successes.

Fred: 00:00

Hey. I'm Fred.

Ant: 00:00

And I'm Ant. And this is Creator Generation.

Fred: 00:05

Imagine this. You had one of the most trusted platforms and business media behind your name for years. Then it all comes to a sudden stop, and you're out on your own. Our guest today is Upton Saeedy, former CNBC producer turned independent creator and entrepreneur. He's here to answer the question that worries so many potential creators.

Fred: 00:25

If you lose your safety net, are you able to start something from scratch and actually make a go of it? Upton, welcome to Creator Generation.

Uptin: 00:33

Yeah, great to be with you guys.

Fred: 00:36

Mate, we have talked to you a fair bit in the last little while. We see you we saw you're in Abu Dhabi at the end of last year. You're you've been up to quite a lot in the last twelve months.

Uptin: 00:45

Yeah. I've been full time content, but I also sold my company back in December, so about six months ago. And, it's been a really fun year for me.

Fred: 00:56

Yeah. Well, you've had that very interesting journey. You started as a journalist. You became a creator, left your job to do that. You sold the business as you just explained, and now you're onto a new phase.

Fred: 01:10

Can you tell us a little bit about the background? Tell us about where you came from as a journalist and what prompted that move into being your own boss and a creator?

Uptin: 01:20

Yeah. What prompted the move was getting laid off. So, you know, it wasn't so much of a choice as it was getting kind of pushed into it. But what I did was so I was a journalist for CNBC. I was based in New York City.

Uptin: 01:33

It was a amazing, you know, career and everything, but I was mostly producer, not really telling my own stories. I was producing for the reporters. And so I moved to Singapore with this promise that I would get to tell my own stories and do live TV and write my own articles more often and everything. And then my boss at the time said, Hey, why don't you help launch our YouTube channel? So I launched the YouTube channel that was in 2016 for CNBC International.

Uptin: 01:59

And pretty quickly, realized anytime I would do a video in selfie mode, like filming on my iPhone seven at the time, that video would get more views on Facebook, on Instagram, on on YouTube than the videos where I would bring our professional videographer. And so I kinda just had more and more fun with the the content for CNBCs, basically doing vlogs. And a lot of the videos would get millions of views across the the YouTube channel and so forth for CNBC. And it was great. It was a it was a dream job traveling around Asia and reporting for for CNBC kind of as a vlogger.

Uptin: 02:35

But then the pandemic happened, a lot of shifts to the business, a lot of layoffs. And so when I was laid off, I I moved back to California where I'm originally from. And I said, okay. Like, what should I do now? And I talked to a couple different people, one of them being Drew Binsky, huge travel vlogger with, like, 10,000,000 followers.

Uptin: 02:56

And I I actually remember seeing Drew surpass us and and me thinking like, how is this random guy with a backpack and a camera, you know, getting so many millions of followers and views while we were this big established network with this, you know, a big budget and all these things. And and, you know, just we were getting passed by the single individual. But that was a learning. And I was like, well, actually, when I really reflected on it, I realized, like, people join Facebook, they join YouTube, they join Instagram, they join TikTok to connect with another person, not a brand, not a news organization. So maybe I'm actually more powerful as an individual than I was with CNBC.

Uptin: 03:35

And so I was on a call with Drew, and he actually told me, he said, why don't you just start your own channel? And I remember thinking like, oh, come on, like, can't do that. Like, that'll take so long to grow. Will it even work? Etcetera, etcetera.

Uptin: 03:47

But the more I reflected on it, this was 2020, the more I realized like, okay, gotta at least try it. And I was actually driven by the fear of not trying it. I was driven by the thought of coming back in six months or twelve months and let's say I got some corporate job, maybe in PR or media or whatever, and I was I was like, okay, well, what if that thought creeps up in a year from now saying, well, what if you had at least tried? What if you at least posted your first YouTube video? Like, what would have happened, you know?

Uptin: 04:15

And so I was like, alright, I gotta just try and see. It might not work. I might fail. But I at least have to know that I tried. And so that's when I I started my own channel.

Fred: 04:25

Must have been quite a big shift. Right? You come from CNBC, a big name in news, you know, just trusted by a lot of people. And moving to your own platform, is it was it was it freaky? Was it a was it a scary process?

Uptin: 04:41

Yeah. Absolutely. Like, knowing that I could have done a video on YouTube for CNBC that would get a million views, and some of them did. And then all of a sudden, I was like, okay, have zero subscribers. My first you know, I know my first video is gonna get a 100 views, maybe, if if that.

Uptin: 04:56

It's a terrifying feeling, and it's very unnerving. It's almost harder than starting from scratch because I I was accustomed to getting all this validation through virality versus someone who's starting from scratch is not. Right? So so I kind of was aware of this big challenge that was gonna hit me. And so what I did was I made a rule, and I said, alright.

Uptin: 05:19

I'm gonna post three videos a week on YouTube no matter what for an entire year. And then after that year, I will assess and decide what I wanna do. Do I wanna switch to once a week? Do I wanna stay at three per week? Do I wanna give up altogether because I you know, I'm this isn't working?

Uptin: 05:37

But I'm gonna at least do three per week no matter what for a year, and then I'm not gonna be at the mercy of these ebbs and flows. So by doing that three videos per week, I'm like, alright. At least at least I'm not gonna be at the mercy of the results. Right? I knew very early on, like, I'm gonna post a video.

Uptin: 05:55

It's gonna get a 100 views, maybe 200 views, and I'm I'm gonna do that for a week, then a month. And I'm gonna I'm gonna say, like, this is really silly. Like, this is so demoralizing. Again, because I was used to lots of views. You know?

Uptin: 06:07

And so so so I so to kind of to get over that mental block that was inevitably gonna happen, I made that rule that I was gonna commit to consistency. I'm gonna commit to three videos per week for one year no matter what. And I tell people now who are starting, especially on YouTube, say, you need to do that. You need to commit. It's either maybe it's one a week, maybe it's two a week, maybe it's three a week, but you need to commit and say, I'm gonna do that till the end of the year.

Uptin: 06:32

And then the key words, the three most important words are no matter what. Because regardless of if you're tired or you're feeling demotivated or whatever, you're traveling, you still do it. Because it's very easy once you skip that first that first, you know, scheduled video. It's very easy to skip another and another and another, and that could totally derail you. So by committing to consistency, you're you're also you're also, like, directing all your energy toward the creation rather than the results.

Uptin: 07:02

I can control if I post three videos per week, but I can't control if one gets a million views or one gets a 100 views, really. Right? And that's what's gonna demotivate me, but it but I at least focus all my energy on what I can control, which is, for one year, I'm not really gonna care about followers. I'm not really gonna care about views. I'm just gonna gonna care about posting Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

Fred: 07:22

Can I say that in our programs, if I was to point to one element that is the most the biggest driver for success, it's that consistent aspect to it too? We've seen it time and time again that the credits who do really, really well are the ones that commit to that. I'm gonna commit to one, two, three videos at this level for this amount of time. And I'm gonna be consistent at it because like you said, you can control that. You get, you know, whether they do zero or a 100,000 or a million views, you at least get consistent data, and they can make decisions to do the next thing or change it up or more so just build confidence.

Uptin: 08:01

Yeah. Totally. And, you know, you you get better. The more you do things, the better you get. There's there's often a debate on YouTube, like, quality versus quantity.

Uptin: 08:10

And, you know, I respect everyone's opinion, but my opinion is quantity. Because to get to quality, you're gonna have to put out a lot of things. And and, you know, there's all these studies that show that. Right? Like, there's studies that show, like, if you do something a lot, you're inevitably gonna get better than it, rather than if you try to be a perfectionist at something.

Uptin: 08:29

You'll get good. You'll you'll be you could be great, but it it's according to a lot of studies, it's gonna take longer.

Fred: 08:35

Absolutely. I

Ant: 08:37

wanna dig under that, like, consistency posting three times a week for a year no matter what. Right? Like, that headline, that's really inspirational, aspirational. What's the reality of that? Like, the no matter what?

Ant: 08:50

Like, when you're in it, reflecting back on it now, like, what's that experience like? Like

Uptin: 08:56

Yeah. Well, you know, I got I got COVID, and this before there was the vaccine and everything. So it was, like, kinda scary, like, to get COVID. And and I was like, alright. I still gotta do my three videos.

Uptin: 09:05

And so I made one or two of the videos about getting COVID. You know? But but, I mean, there there is some stress that you're putting under yourself, but again, it's kinda like, okay. I don't have time to overthink. Is this a good video or is this bad?

Uptin: 09:19

Is this a bad topic? Is this good? It's it's just like, gotta get it out. And one thing I'll say, you know, from day one, I hired a video editor to to edit all these videos. You know, people were shocked.

Uptin: 09:30

Like, three videos per week? Like, that's insane on YouTube. But I'll caveat it by saying I I I dedicated some, you know, money, the the the some money from, like, like, severance from CNBC. Like, I dedicated that to to to giving it to a video editor because that's quite timely. Right?

Uptin: 09:48

I I can I'm much better to spend my time writing my scripts and filming and and and uploading than to spend my time editing. And then the second one is the videos were not long. Right? Like this was way before they're kind of recommended minimum eight minute videos, etcetera, etcetera. Each video is like three to five minutes.

Uptin: 10:05

So so, you know, it's definitely there's definitely fire under you to commit to that. And also, tell people when they're doing their commitment, be realistic. It should push you a little, but it shouldn't be like crazy. Right? You you I don't wanna see someone burn out in two months.

Uptin: 10:21

And you hear this from all the algorithms. They would much rather you post, you know, twice or two to three times a month on, let's say, YouTube for for a year than post, you know, three times a week for a month and then take two months off, and then post again. The algorithms don't like that.

Ant: 10:37

Did the newsroom experience help with this? What did you bring from the newsroom?

Uptin: 10:42

Lots. Yeah. A lot of times, you know, people would say, wow. You have a million followers after just one year. That's insane.

Uptin: 10:48

You know? And they kinda saw it as this overnight success story. But in reality, I did have many years in the newsroom as a journalist, as a trained storyteller that gave me the skills and the confidence to tell the stories I was. Right? Yeah, I started with zero in 2020, and I got a million within a year, but but it was all those years of of, like, learning the craft and the art of hooks and storytelling and and interesting ways of writing that that kinda helped me to get that audience.

Uptin: 11:19

So, for sure, it it helped me tremendously.

Fred: 11:22

And do you think news creators or news journalists in particular are well geared towards that, understanding hooks and understanding the way a story or structure works?

Uptin: 11:32

It depends. Right? Like, if if you're writing articles, it's much different than producing for TV than if you're just on the, you know, social media team. So I think news journalists are are definitely getting better, and they're they're on they're a lot more multifaceted. They're wearing a lot more hats than they have in the past.

Uptin: 11:48

But one thing I noticed at CNBC was that it would be much easier to, like, take an intern from the newsroom and be like, okay, we're gonna put you on our YouTube channel or you know, do this next Instagram explainer than to take the the seasoned TV anchors and say, hey, we want you to do social. And that's because that's two different presenting styles. And this was back in 2018, 2019. Now even more so. If you get on Instagram or TikTok or even YouTube and you come with that broadcast voice, which is very formal and professional and coming up next.

Uptin: 12:24

Right? Like, if you do that on YouTube, that's very unrelatable. People have a bigger version to that. So funny enough, it would I would always say like, oh, it's so hard to train the the the traditional broadcast talent, TV talent, and, like, have them do a a one off video for our YouTube channel.

Fred: 12:41

Yeah. And look, before we jump into that next iteration of your journey, did anyone come with you from the CNBC over to your YouTube journey or your YouTube channel?

Uptin: 12:54

With me personally, no. Of of others, I think you know, I do get I do get asked a lot of times by journalists who are thinking about making the move or they have made the move. Like, oh, I want your advice, you know, and stuff. And I I love to give them advice. I love to kinda help them.

Uptin: 13:12

The biggest challenge is obviously the transition. Right? Like, it's easy once they've made it. But their biggest challenge is like, well, how do I make money while I'm building my my my brand, my my my channels? And for me, the one thing I'll say, and I the advice I like to give people is so so I made a certain amount of money per year as a CNBC journalist.

Uptin: 13:37

Right? What I quickly discovered after I got laid off was like, I can actually do PR because a lot of journalists that leave journalism, they end up in PR. I So was like, okay. I can just be like a PR freelancer and have a couple of clients, and I can make the same amount of money I was making at CNBC, but instead of working eight hours a day, I could do that in four hours a day. And so basically, now I'm doing went from forty hours a week to twenty hours a week and making the equivalent salary, right?

Uptin: 14:08

So what I would do on an average day, like my first year, year and a half, is I would work in PR consulting and freelancing from like, I don't know, you know, 8AM till till lunch all morning was PR, and then I would have lunch, and then I could switch to being a creator, which for you know, generated zero income at the time, but at least I wasn't stressed. Because I now people I meet, they they're dipping into their savings. They have to pay rent, and it's very stressful to do content when you, like, feel forced to to to turn revenue from it and make money from it. And, you know, when you put that pressure on yourself, like, I'm gonna post this TikTok and it better pay me my my what used to be my entire salary. Like, that's really hard.

Uptin: 14:47

It's really hard. And if you're if you're approaching storytelling and content with that kinda, like, pressure, it can have, like, a negative impact on how you're presented by the audience. Right? So it's really nice to be able to at least attempt content with zero financial pressure.

Fred: 15:04

Up ten Media is what came next, right, after you left CNBC. So can you explain, like, the genesis of that and what did that how did that fit into your YouTube content? What was that company?

Uptin: 15:16

Upten Media was my agency. So it's it was a UGC content agency, and it I never really set out to start an agency at all. What happened was I was going all in on content and growing my YouTube, growing my TikTok, etcetera, etcetera. I got a message on LinkedIn, and, someone said, hey. I've seen your videos.

Uptin: 15:35

Love your videos. Can you, make videos for our cybersecurity company? We want you to be the face of it. We want you to write the scripts and produce and edit and deliver us 50 videos, like as an educational series for our company YouTube channel. And I said, yeah, let's do it.

Uptin: 15:52

And all of a sudden, had to hire a freelance, you know, script writer and this freelance video editor just for that project. And so over the course of a couple months, we delivered the 50 videos, and then all of a sudden, I'm like, Wait, this is a great use case. This is a great case study. And so I would go to conferences like Web Summit or, you know, meet people in Dubai, and I would meet all these, like, CMOs or CEOs or founders that just raised a $100,000,000 or whatever. And and I would say, hey, like, what are you doing for your content?

Uptin: 16:24

Like, you're probably spending a lot of money on PR, but, like, what are you doing for your Instagram account and for your do you have a TikTok? And what what's when's the last time your company posted on YouTube? And then I would show them the case study, and they'd say, yeah, we need that. Let's order 10 videos a month from your agency. And so I the agency grew very organically after just honestly getting that LinkedIn message.

Uptin: 16:48

I never set out to run an agency. It really kinda just fell into my lap. And and so it grew. We had a team of about 10 at Web One Point. But then about a year and a half ago, it got to a point where I was putting a lot more time into my agency than I wanted to.

Uptin: 17:06

And it was you could actually see, like, the more revenue the agency would get, the lower the views were on Upton's YouTube and Upton's Instagram and Upton's TikTok. And so that was, like, my epiphany where it's like, okay. If you want this to be a really dynamic, amazing, successful agency, it's just not realistic for me to say I'm gonna be good I'm gonna be great at both. I cannot be a great agency owner and also a great YouTuber. I just can't.

Uptin: 17:34

Like, right? Even if I hire someone amazing to be the managing director of the agency, which I did. I hired a lot of great people and I I was willing to kind of pay them more than maybe the budget allowed because I was like, okay, just invest in growing it, etcetera. So I kinda came up with this moment where I'm like, I need to pick one. I don't wanna look back and be pretty good at both things.

Uptin: 17:53

I wanna be amazing at one. And so, of course, my content was the the the the the biggest passion. And so that's when it became time to, like, have some discussions, and and ultimately, I was able to sell the company to to Augustus Media, which is based in Dubai. And they do a lot of their own content. They do a lot of they take on a lot of clients and do influencer marketing and content production and and many different services, and it was just a perfect fit.

Ant: 18:23

There's a there's a lot to unpack there because you just sort of like, oh, yeah. I just did this, and someone reached out on LinkedIn, and the next thing you know, I've got an agency, and then it's been acquired. So simple. Right? Super simple.

Ant: 18:36

It there's a lot of different skills, and you you highlighted that from being a creator to then running an agency, and and, ultimately, the split focus is is taking to where you are today. But diving back in there into those you know, it it it sounds very simple. You know, start of the agency, someone reaches out to you, make some videos. Hey. There's an opportunity here.

Ant: 19:02

But what were the like, what were those skills that you were then applying and building while building the business? Like, you're clearly very good at sales, even though you I I don't I don't or maybe not, but it it obviously, good at executing. But what were those skills that you were either consciously building or or subconsciously building and executing that that helped this become successful? Because it's not uncommon to hear a lot of creators, and Fred can attest to this too, say, hey. I'm good at making content.

Ant: 19:38

I'm gonna go make it for others. And that is a pathway to extreme failure fast.

Uptin: 19:45

Yeah. I think, you know, I guess one thing that I thought was that I would be like a creative director where I'm just coming up with high level ideation. Okay, we have a new fintech app. Here's, you know, 10 concepts and series ideas we can create for their organic videos and their paid videos. Let's do it.

Uptin: 20:05

And like have a nice brainstorm session, and it's really cool and fun and creative. Then And it's like, okay, give me the next one, you know? But that's not what my life was as an agency owner. It was hiring, it was in some cases firing, it was getting on a call with a client who expected more reach or more views or had a different vision of of what the videos were. It was, to your point, a lot of sales, a lot of business development, a lot of like, let me go to this event, let me reach out to so and so, let me call so and so, And and convince them why they need us and why they shouldn't, you know, just be spending all their money with these high level, high quality production companies, but they need to like unbutton their content.

Uptin: 20:50

They need to be doing UGC. And then, you know, more recently it became about AI. Well, can we use AI content? And I'm like, no, actually, because the second your target customer knows that this is AI and you're trying to convince them to download your investment app, it's gonna actually have the opposite effect, right? So it became a lot of different skills from managing people and sales and leadership, but a very little part of it got to actually be me being creative.

Uptin: 21:18

And I think that's kind of, you know, one of the other reasons where I'm like, oh, like, let me, just focus on my own content.

Fred: 21:25

So what did you love about running your own agency, and what did you dislike strongly?

Uptin: 21:31

What I loved was just being an entrepreneur. As a creator, you're kind of a creator first. You are an entrepreneur. You always have to think about business and opportunities, but not the same way you are as an agency owner. So I loved the fact that I went from just me to a team of almost a dozen people.

Uptin: 21:50

I loved the kind of magic that came together when we would be in person in meetings and so forth. I took a lot of pride in the fact that most of my team was based in Dubai, and for over a year, we never had anyone leave or get fired. I think a year is not a lot, honestly, but in terms of an agency and social media, it kind of is, you know? And I took a lot of pride in the fact that my team was happy and I was happy with them, and we we we got to a point where we created this really awesome synergy and and almost magic when my team would go out and film or when we would go to conferences and meet new clients. And one of the the things that the buyer said who who acquired Uptime Media was, you know, I think you have a knack for hiring good talent.

Uptin: 22:35

And that was, like, the biggest compliment I could hear was was that, okay. I I I developed, you know, this ability to to kind of see the the the the who's who's gonna be, like, really a a good person for that role and who's gonna contribute to the business really well, but also who's I I wanna make their life better. You know? I want them to say, like, oh, I loved working with Upten, and I loved working at Upten Media because my last job And, you know, I can only say that because I'm someone who had a career when I graduated college. Right?

Uptin: 23:08

Like, I worked for so many different companies and bosses, and so I learned as an employee, like, what I wished my boss would have seen in me or, you know, not just treating me like a line item. And so I really did love, like, getting to experience managing a team and the people who worked for me like grow their careers. That's one thing I really loved and kind of like figuring it out as I went. It was my first startup, it was my first company, so a lot of it was like, let's just try it and learn. And then in terms of what I didn't like was was like I said, just the fact that the more time I put into it, the more my my own content was was stagnating or suffering.

Uptin: 23:51

And so I felt sometimes I would have almost a little animosity toward the agency because it's like you wake up and you just wanna spend all day working on an amazing new YouTube video, but your WhatsApp is blowing up with clients and employees. And or even I'm on a shoot in another country, and I'm waking up at 5AM to go do that client Zoom call, and and then it would just like it it would start to, like, create this animosity toward it.

Fred: 24:18

Mhmm. Hey. Obviously, you did that transition pretty well. You were a producer before you went into this. A lot of creators who grow businesses and agencies around their content don't have that background.

Fred: 24:31

Do you think it's more suited to some types of creators versus other types of creators?

Uptin: 24:36

For sure. I think even like, I've listened to interviews with Izzy Harris and Johnny Harris, and, like, one thing I I found really interesting about their business model is, like, she says, like, we treat Johnny like almost an employee. You know? He he's not meant to run the company. He's meant to, like his craft, his art is to is to do research, to write scripts, and to deliver, like, and present and and share that story.

Uptin: 25:04

And that's, like, his ultimate talent. And I think she's even said, like, on some interviews, like, it's not about bringing him into those business strategy meetings or sales calls. Right? It's just about, like, letting him do what he does best. And so, absolutely, I think there's a lot of a lot of people who, you know, have have one talent, but maybe and you see it a lot with creators creating businesses, right?

Uptin: 25:29

Especially like merchandise or whatever. You see so many creators launching a product, and then ultimately, I don't think it's necessarily a lack of maybe it is a good product, but maybe they're not the right ones to manage and try and scale that product because they may not have the business acumen. Maybe they're just really, really good storytellers, and I think the solution is partnering. Right? Like, partnering with the right person.

Ant: 25:57

Yeah. I mean, we expect too much of creators, I I I think. Like, we demand too much of it from the creator economy. Right? Like, you should be an amazing creator.

Ant: 26:07

And isn't it wonderful that you can be a founder of your own company? And, yes, it is, but you don't have to. Right? Like, I I think it's

Uptin: 26:15

Yeah. And I think sometimes we glamorize that too much. I I I've seen a lot of creators in the past two to three years actually scale down their teams. And, you know, I think in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, it was a kind of a flex. Like, I'm hiring my fourteenth person.

Uptin: 26:29

And then they realized, like, wait a minute. Now I'm spending so many of my hours just managing people and not actually, like, the creative art of of creation, not getting to do the creative art of creation. So so they're actually, like, they're downsizing. And even for me, like, when I sold my companies in in December, I kind of I kind of deliberately like to keep my team nimble. We just added another freelance video editor, and this wasn't like a flex for me to be like, oh, my head count just went up.

Uptin: 26:59

Right? It was just like, okay. Like, we kinda need it, so let's do it. But but I I kinda, like, take pride in in having, like, a nimble team because I don't want too much friction in the in the workflow.

Fred: 27:12

Yeah. You know, have this program that teaches creators about scale and growth and, know, improving their revenue. And when we come to the scale component of it, everyone thinks that in order to really scale or grow a business, it just means adding more people. Whereas in reality, it doesn't have to be that at all. Scale is different to everyone.

Fred: 27:33

And I feel like a lot of creators are pushed to think it's just about building bigger teams, and doing more and more and more. And we talked to Justin Brown in an episode previously from Primal Video. And even he was saying he scaled down from 12 or 14 people back down to two or three, and he's the happiest he's ever been. Wow. Wow.

Fred: 27:54

So it really depends, doesn't it, in terms of what scale means to you?

Uptin: 27:58

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's been an interesting, like, kind of scale, you know, waving the balance and figuring out what's right for me and and so forth. So yeah.

Ant: 28:10

Can can we do the, exercise with the benefit of hindsight? Like, you know, obviously, great experience building the agency in up up 10 media. Hindsight, would you do it? Like

Uptin: 28:26

Honestly, yeah, I would. I would. I have I have no regrets, I think, especially, you know, when when I could say that I sold it too. I it it wasn't like I had to shut it down or it was a failure. So I I absolutely would.

Uptin: 28:39

And I I wouldn't even say there's, like, any regrets, you know, along the way, because, like, I I learned. I learned a lot of things about, oh, maybe I wouldn't have hired this person back then, but I was just excited about this. You know? It I've learned I learned a lot through through everything, and all the kind of wrong turns ended up leading to, like, really good lessons. So so, yeah, I still would have done it.

Ant: 29:00

I mean, I'm I'm I'm going I'm going off on a side street here, but bear with me. What are the key things you've learned from this experience, both being a creator and then a founder of the agency and running the agency? But now in this new directional I guess it's not a new direction. Right? You're going back to being, like, creator creator focused.

Ant: 29:19

But now, like, Creator two point o, Upton, like, what can you take from this learning that, you know, potentially others could take from this learning without having to go through the agency experience if they don't want to?

Uptin: 29:32

Yeah. I mean, I do I do I I do hear a lot of people saying, like, oh, I wanna start an agency. I wanna start an agency, and it's fine. But I do think they should realize, like, it's not as easy as I think a lot of times people like, Oh, I'll just get a bunch of companies on a retainer and make all this money. But they don't actually realize how labor intensive Not labor, but how much time they're going to have to spend making sure the clients are happy.

Uptin: 30:00

And, you know, it's actually a very, like, kind of risky business to run because your KPIs are oftentimes at the mercy of an algorithm. Right? Like, that's pretty scary to to say, like, hey. I can make you viral to a brand and then like you're putting the the deliverable the deliverables ultimately at the mercy of like let's say TikTok which is the most, I would say volatile of all the algorithms. And so I think, like, the advice would be just, like, you know, really do do your due diligence and and see if it's right for you.

Uptin: 30:31

And I think that I think a lot of times creators at the beginning of their journey get really excited about any possible money making opportunity, which makes sense, but they need to really have a plan. Like, okay, if I really take on these clients, what's going to give? And one thing I was very proud of with my agency was we were very, very focused. Like, all we did was UGC video production. So many times people clients would be like, oh, can, you know, can you do the, can you do the ads?

Uptin: 31:03

Can you do the ad buying and strategizing? And I was like, no. We don't do that. We can refer you to someone. Or, oh, can you do influencer marketing?

Uptin: 31:10

My own team would say like, hey. I wanna do, I wanna do like, we should be doing influencer marketing. Or like every few months, someone one of my employees would say like, hey, why don't we have an Instagram? Why don't we have a TikTok? And and and they would really be like, this is so weird.

Uptin: 31:28

Why doesn't Up ten Media have its Instagram account? And I'm like, well, first of all, we're a b to b agency. How many b to b anythings do you follow on Instagram? Second of all, who's gonna run that? Like, we if we have our own account, we're gonna need to treat it like it's our own client.

Uptin: 31:44

So that's thousands of dollars a month I need to be dedicating in resources to do it right. And third of all, if a potential client sees that and they see our last video got seven fifty views, that doesn't look good. Right? And so there's like this this like unrealistic expectation that we have to be viral, but we're just a b to b agency. And so like I was like, let me as a creator with over 3,000,000 followers, like, let me be the the the credibility for Uptead Media.

Uptin: 32:11

Let my own channel be the ones that potential clients say like, oh, this guy knows what he's doing, so his team must know what they're doing. And so the only social channel we started was LinkedIn. It's like of course and you know, we got we actually had like 5,000 followers or whatever on LinkedIn, which is really healthy, I think, and and strong. But but that's the one where I was like, okay, LinkedIn, let's go hard on, but the rest we don't need to be on. And and so I'd get pushback.

Uptin: 32:37

It's like, but we're selling short videos. Why aren't we on the short video platform? It's like, we don't need to be, you know, and I explained why.

Fred: 32:44

When you left, sold Up ten Media, moved to do your own thing, was it really hard then switching gears to being your own person again?

Uptin: 32:54

Well, there there was nothing that I was doing by myself. I I kept someone from that team to who was he was working part time on each, and so he came with me, and then I, you know, I still had my full time video editor and stuff. So so there was nothing that I guess, you know, I went from, like, a 12 person team to a three person team, but it wasn't hard at all. It was it was actually really, it was really, nice. It was really enjoyable to to just be able to, like, have more, like, headspace to focus on, like, what am I gonna do for my YouTube video this week?

Uptin: 33:28

You know? Like, how how creative can I go? So it was actually a really, like, kind of a nice transition to the point where sometimes in those first few months, I felt like this weird guilt because I was like, oh, wait. My to do list is a lot shorter than it used to be. Or like, oh, I don't have I don't have any Zoom calls for the past three days, you know?

Uptin: 33:46

So it was a really nice feeling.

Ant: 33:48

What's this next generation of Upton Upton, the Creator? So

Uptin: 33:52

my next evolution is to just get bigger and better as a as a YouTuber and as a creator. And so I'm focusing a lot more energy on the scripts and making them better. I'm I'm I'm using different, like, storytelling crafts to do better deliveries. My topics are getting better. My thumbnails are getting better.

Uptin: 34:10

It's all about, like, how do I accelerate my growth through better storytelling? And so if I spent eight hours on a on a you know, scripting out a video, like, a year ago while running the agency, maybe now I'm spending fifteen hours on a video. And so the goal is to to get my my YouTube, to continue to grow, but grow even more and and just do like bigger and better content, you know? And it's funny because a lot of times, like, well, what are you gonna do now? Are you starting another company?

Uptin: 34:40

Are you gonna launch a product? Are you gonna do this? Are you gonna do that? And, you know, I did launch a podcast. So my podcast is called What's Upton?

Uptin: 34:47

And I interview a different business leader every week. I interviewed Logan Paul, I interviewed Gary Vee, I've interviewed the president of Microsoft, I interviewed the founder of LinkedIn, Reid Hoffman. So so that's been really fun for me. But aside from the podcast, there's no new thing. There's no new company I'm about to run or app I'm about to launch or, you know, coffee brand I'm gonna create.

Uptin: 35:10

It's just really like doubling down on on my storytelling.

Ant: 35:15

You're in LA. It has to be matcha.

Uptin: 35:17

Right? What do you what do mean? Yes. Matcha brand.

Fred: 35:21

I wanna ask you about the podcast. We obviously, you've talked to some really impressive people, as we have on on this podcast too. But what is that something that you've heard from any of them you looked at? Oh, that is such such good advice for someone in the creator space?

Uptin: 35:36

Well, I I told Gary Vee this is actually at Bridge where I interviewed him in Abu Dhabi where I saw you guys. I told him, I said, you know, Gary, when I when I, like, got laid off, I unfollowed you. I told him this straight up. I said, I unfollowed you because you were so intense about, like, too many people are spending their Saturdays watching Netflix when they could be building a company. And it stressed me out so much that I had to unfollow him because when you're going from like an employee of a company to being a solopreneur or creator, the one of the biggest challenges is managing yourself.

Uptin: 36:10

And it's such a silly skill you would never think about, but it was really hard for me because on a Friday evening, as an employee, you know if your boss is happy with you, you're happy. You don't care. You don't think. You don't stress. But now all of a sudden, you could spend all day Saturday building your business and making more content, or you could spend it at the beach.

Uptin: 36:31

And so it's like, well, it's the weekend, let me go to the beach. And then what's that thought in your head? It's like, well, but you could be doing this, you should be doing that, you should maybe I do a few hours, maybe and so that was really challenging. I mean, took years, and I'm still not even fully where, like, I want to be with that that balance of managing yourself. But I told Gary Vee this during my interview, and he he said, he's like, Look, you know, I have been accused of being too aggressive and hustle culture and, you know, overnight, work overnight and all nighters and all these things.

Uptin: 37:05

He goes but he kind of pushed back on me and he said, my guess is when you unfollowed me, you were going through something yourself where you weren't able to hear my advice. And I kind of shrugged my shoulders. Was like, actually, you're right. I was. I I you know, I was really challenged in that time of my life with like managing myself, and here you are like, you know, screaming at me on my phone to like, you know, work harder and and hustle more.

Uptin: 37:34

And so, you know, I told him, I'm following you once again. But that was a kind of a fun little conversation we had and a little tug of war where we kind of like landed on, you know, where we where we where I think people should be thinking about work. It's different for everyone. Some people thrive off of working seventy hours a week. Mhmm.

Uptin: 37:52

But we're also living in a time where it's like you can work smarter, not harder. Right? Like I I I'm into I'm into hard work, but I'm not into like, I'm not impressed with when my friend tells me, Oh, did an all nighter, or I worked seventy hours this week. It's like, that's not impressive to me. What's impressive to me is you're able to get better output with with a good amount, a healthy amount of work.

Uptin: 38:17

Not less, not like, you know, passive income, crypto bro, whatever, but just like, you know, finding the balance that's right for you.

Fred: 38:24

I think that's such a good lesson because I think for a lot of people they feel like the only way to succeed is to be part of that hustle culture where you don't have to be, do you?

Uptin: 38:34

Yeah. You don't have to be. And you know, I saw a stat that said, or like an article headline that was like, you know, millennials cannot cannot relax, like, if they're not productive, you know? It's I think I think a lot of because because what happened was all of a sudden in the past fifteen years, we had all these opportunities to have a side hustle, to start your own business. And that wasn't the case even twenty years ago.

Uptin: 38:56

Right? Like before the internet became super prevalent and all these opportunities came to like make money on the side, that wasn't the case. And so like we came we kinda came of age at the time where this was all like happening and booming and you kinda, you know, in high school I was selling like shirts on eBay or whatever, right? And like you make $5 here, $10 there, but it's like you start to get this mindset that like your free time, that you're not like in school or at work, can be used to like make money, and it could be $5 an hour, it could be $5,000 an hour, but like if you're smart, you'll get it right, and there's drop shipping, there's ecommerce, and there's now there's content. I mean, when I started as a creator, I was making a lot of money on Facebook, you know, a lot of money, And and I almost imagined it, like, that that caught caused a lot of anxiety.

Uptin: 39:43

Right? Because, again, it's like you can spend your Saturday, Sunday watching Netflix, but if you make a couple videos, that could generate you $500. That could generate you thousands of dollars. One of my videos in 2022 generated $16,000. Imagine.

Uptin: 39:58

I mean, that was that was months of of working months of working at my job at CNBC. Right? And so when you have that feeling like, Well, you can do a video that might It's almost worse that it's not guaranteed because it's not like I have a client, I'm billing them X amount of dollars per hour, but it's like a casino, right? It's like, you could strike it rich this weekend, but make it you gotta make a video, you know? So that creates a lot of, like, unease and anxiety if you're not used to, like, managing yourself.

Fred: 40:30

And then how do you, as a creator, even out those peaks? I mean, you're back to doing things like, you know, more as a small team. Revenue sources are probably mixed. How do you create consistent revenue to keep being satisfied, happy, growing?

Uptin: 40:45

I've been quite lucky that my brand deals have become more and more frequent, and also the the amount that I can command from a company has gone up. And so, you know, knock on wood, like, I haven't had to do much. Most of my brand deals are inbound, like, 90%. And so so, you know, it's just been it's just happened organically. I haven't had to, like, force anything or go on on the the offense and do some sales or anything like that.

Uptin: 41:15

But one thing my team and I, like my manager, we will we will kinda look at a quarterly, like, this is how much revenue came in on on the brand deal side. But we'll do that once a quarter. Like, we're not we're not doing weekly calls of targets and like how much money came in and and all of that. Because I just I you know, at the end of the day, I have always like loved the art of storytelling, and I don't wanna I don't wanna equate my storytelling too much with the business side, with how much money we made, and and and, you know, how much did we, like, double our profits or triple our profits, or can we get more money from that video? Like, it's it's I I do wanna spend, like, 90% of my energy on just, like, the art of a good story.

Ant: 41:54

What is the art of a good story?

Uptin: 41:57

It's telling something that is interesting in an interesting way that makes someone want to follow you after, or maybe they go to dinner that night and say, You know what I learned today? That's happened to me too. I've had people I was telling someone about something a couple months ago at a dinner, and I was telling someone I just met at this group dinner, and they were telling me something that I had just made a video on. And he was like, oh, yeah. I I saw da da da da da da.

Uptin: 42:26

And I'm like and then he even said it in the order that I presented my video. And I'm like I was like, you know, I made a video on this. And he's like, wait. And then and then it all clicked. And, you know, it's it's it's very complimentary, but it's also like I was like, wait, but you didn't remember my face or anything?

Uptin: 42:41

He's like, no. But, but, you know, that to me is is like a cool win that it's like, oh, like, he's regurgitating a store like, something that I kind of covered in the same order, and now he's using it, like, you know, in dinnertime conversation.

Ant: 42:55

Is that, like, secret herbs and spices of of telling a good story, or is there you know, are there any rules,

Fred: 43:05

guidance? Tell the, yeah, tell the listeners what do you think makes a great story.

Uptin: 43:10

Well, I think the biggest one, especially nowadays, is trimming the fat. Right? Like, most times you read a script, I'm like, okay. We can reduce this by 30%. Make it shorter.

Uptin: 43:19

Make it more concise. Use less words. That's how you keep someone's attention. And then, of course, there's a lot of secrets like your hook. You know, your hook has to be so good.

Uptin: 43:30

Nowadays, like title text in a hook is so important. What are those two or three words that you put in the in the start of the video? Not just because people watch without headphones, but because they're they're used to, like, hearing and seeing, and, you know, they're gonna they're if if it's just you talking and they've never seen your face, or even if they have seen your face, they're probably gonna scroll. Right? Like, you need to give them a reason to stop.

Uptin: 43:52

So, yeah, there's a lot, but I think the key ones would be like, you know, shorter is often better. What is your opening line? Is it a question? Is it like a really intriguing sentence? And then delivery has become really important.

Uptin: 44:05

We've seen this massive shift over the past year where, you know, yapping videos or you're just talking a talking head, sitting on your couch, or sitting in your car is often gonna do way better than a video where you go to a foreign country and do this big, like, voice over thing and interview some locals. Right? Like, you just giving a hot take from from your car seat has has a lot of potential, but you need to deliver it in a relatable way. Right? Even if you're using a script, you can use a teleprompter.

Uptin: 44:35

Fine. But, like, are you able to deliver it and enunciate in the right moments? Are you able to command the viewer's attention because you're speaking in a commanding way? Your intonations, all of these things are important. But I wouldn't even give someone advice to look into the right intonations and the right speed and the right pauses.

Uptin: 44:55

I would say, just pretend like you're talking to your friend. You're not talking to a bunch of people on the internet, you're talking to a friend. But you also have to pretend that what you have to say is insanely important. It's like the most important thing you've thought of or talked about in weeks or even months. Those two things, I think, are the way that you should be thinking about delivering to the camera.

Uptin: 45:23

You don't need to actually think about, like, the mechanics of a good oratory, like, being a good oratory. It's just about, like, being relatable. And then one last thing, it's very little, but, like, you'll never see me on any video say, hey, guys, or listen, guys, what do you think? Right? I'm not I'm not on stage talking to 10,000 people or a 100,000 people, whatever it is at Madison Square Garden.

Uptin: 45:45

I'm talking to a single individual on the other side of the screen. That's what that parasocial relationship is. You're talking to one other person. And so, like, you need to you need to convey that in your videos by talking to that one person.

Fred: 46:00

That is a super super and a great way to actually end because we are out of time. Upton, amazing. Thank you so much for joining us.

Uptin: 46:10

Thank you guys. This was really fun.