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What?! Stick with us here! In this episode Ayren and Morgan talk about why they are thankful that the Gospel isn't fair
Practical conversations to help you grow in your relationship with Jesus Christ.
EPISODE 008 - THE GOSPEL ISN'T FAIR
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Michele: [00:00:00] Heavenly father. You were so good and you were so beautiful. I thank you for what you're doing on this podcast. Through Erin and Morgan, it is filled with wisdom, truth, glove, and such a transparency that causes me to examine myself Lord, and to know that and all the difficulties we have in this life, we are never alone.
I thank you Jesus. Today. Give us ears to hear your truth and help us to live for your glory. I praise you father. And I pray that you would continue to bless this podcast and ministry and help them reach more people for your kingdom. It is in your mighty son Christ Jesus name that I pray. Amen.
Mika: Welcome to the true disciple. Cast where we have practical conversations on what it means to be a passionate follower of Jesus. We are so thankful [00:01:00] you chose to listen today and hope you gain a fresh perspective with Jesus at the center. This is a community where everyone is given a seat at the table, a place to dive into scripture, talk, think, explore, and learn what following Christ is all about now onto our hosts, Erin and Morgan Nelson.
Ayren: Hey there everybody. Welcome to episode eight of the true discipleship podcast. I am Aaron.
Morgan: and I'm Morgan. Welcome
Ayren: back for another episode, Morgan. How you doing?
Morgan: I'm doing? Good. That's not proper grammar but you'd like as just the Southern.
me. I'm good. Um, I am. I'm good. I'm doing good.
But how are you doing?
Ayren: Oh, thanks for asking. Uh, I am great. We are in a busy season right now, but it is a good busy season. Yeah. Our youth ministry is getting ready for camp this weekend. That's going to be a lot of fun actually, by the time this episode comes out, camp would have been this past week.
And, uh, I'm saying it right now that kids got [00:02:00] saved.
Morgan: I'm going to say that flow Buffalo's one wreck.
Ayren: Yeah. So for anybody who doesn't know, our camp rec teams are all based on a weird animal hybrids. So we have the phlegm buffaloes, which is a combination of flamingos and buffaloes. We have the, uh, the triggers, which is tr I was about to say the turd burgers.
That's not right. The, a turtle title. Hybrid. Um, what's another one. Uh, we have the dolphin Gators have dolphin, half a Gator. You better watch out.
Morgan: There's also cogs Which just sounds really funny Yeah. A
Ayren: because cogs are a thing.
Morgan: cats and dogs. Yeah. yeah,
Ayren: yeah, I was going to be grateful buffaloes for the win, uh, from Buffalo's don't let us down in the future whenever.
Yeah. Inevitably dominate rec time. It's great for everybody that is listening and has no idea what we're talking about. You can learn more about what we have going on here, uh, through Instagram, Facebook, uh, at true discipleship podcast on [00:03:00] both of those places. And
Morgan: if you want to contact us via email, I'm going to get it right this time, Cause it's right in front of me, you can email us at true discipleship, 20 twenty1@gmail.com.
Ayren: you were going to go rogue and not read it, but
Morgan: He was right in front of me
Ayren: much to ask. That's all right. That's all right. Hey, special, shout out to Michelle from Dallas who opened this episode up in prayer. She sent it to the right email address. She knew where to go,
Morgan: despite me saying it wrong. every week.
Ayren: Yeah.
Right. So thank you so much for that, Michelle. Again, if you were listening and you're interested in opening one of our episodes up in prayer, uh, you can reach us at any of those platforms that we previously mentioned. Um, Yeah. So let's go ahead and happen to this week's episode, we are going to do something, um, pretty fun.
Um, something I'm excited about over the next few weeks, we are going to be doing a series on the gospel.
Morgan: Woo
Ayren: That's right. That should be, that is the only appropriate response. Um, if you're one of those people who were like, oh, the gospel, I, I know the gospel.
Morgan: Like,
Ayren: You may [00:04:00] not admit it, but maybe you're in your car and you, oh, the gospel.
Like I get it. Or you saw the title of this episode and you're like, what's the gospel. I know the gospel. Why do I need to listen to this? But I actually think it's going to be fun because over the next few weeks, we're going to be talking about topics such as what is the gospel, which is what we're going to look at today.
We're going to be looking at topics like convince and repentance, sanctification, and holiness, uh, unification of the church body, which all sound like really big Christian words.
Morgan: I feel like I just went to seminary in like two minutes.
Ayren: ready. Um, all of those things are like legitimately vital parts of the Christian faith that I don't think get talked about.
Enough. And so we're going to kind of take some time and do a deep dive, but we're going to be true disciples. Jesus says all the time that you need to count the cost. And I think all of these things actually kind of touch on the idea of what is the Christian life look like. And so what we're hoping is is that this week, when we talk about the gospel, you see it is the gospel.
And then what does that actually mean for your life? Now, I mentioned a minute [00:05:00] ago. What do you do if you, one of those people who you hear, we're talking about the gospel and you're like, like if you show up at church on the weekend, let's be honest, right. You show up at church on the weekend. And you're like, like Easter Sunday, right.
Easter Sunday, every year. Same message. And I legitimately know Christians who were like, I hate going to Easter Sunday service. Cause it's always the same thing over and over and over again.
Morgan: But it's like the most exciting thing.
Ayren: thing.
Morgan: Like my little Wu that I did earlier, the only reason I didn't whoop louder is because. I'm worried about everybody's Ears in the studio, Uh, we sound checked loud, but we didn't sound check as loud as I should. Been in response to the gospel, like it's, it's exciting stuff.
And I think my hope and my prayer is by the end of the episode, is that you want to woo pretty loud. When you think about the gospel or you hear the gospel here, people talk about the gospel.
Ayren: Yeah. If you're at a point where you feel like the gospel is basic trivial, Mundane then [00:06:00] you're missing the point. And so our hope is, is that at least by the end of this episode and even more so by the end of this series, that you would have a fire that the holy spirit lights inside of you for the gospel.
And I think we're going to talk about it in a pretty interesting way today. Right?
Morgan: You're excited. I am like, I'm going to get kicked in the butt by this episode. That's kind of how we start every episode. I'm like, man, I don't want to do this cause I'm going to listen to it. later and it's going to kick me in the butt.
Ayren: Yeah, probably. So, so to the person who's hesitant and said, I don't want to just hear about the gospel, cause I've heard this message a thousand times.
We want to propose it to you in perhaps a new way. I want to tell you today that the gospel is not.
Morgan: [00:07:00] So I think in order to set up this segment, uh, we should talk about just like everyday situations where your response is, well, that's not fair.
Ayren: Do you have those, do you have times in your life where you feel like things aren't
Morgan: oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, so I mean, I think I can think of a lot of scenarios. Like when I was a kid, like, well, that's not fair, like playground situations, but one that just popped into my head that I was like, oh, we'll give people a glimpse into like our. life. Is that, I don't think it's fair. How well things work out for you. sometimes. And I'm just going to sit and how like selfish and like just horrible.
That sounds like you're my husband. And I should be like, yes, go like, get it. Things are working out [00:08:00] for you. Like all praise, thank the Lord.
Ayren: Um,
Morgan: but the thing that makes me so upset is that you and I. approach Problems into very different
Ayren: drastically different,
Morgan: drastically different. So, um, I And the type of person who I can spot a problem from like five times
Ayren: You're a planner.
You just like to think and plan ahead,
Morgan: Yeah. I love having a plan. I love having a list. I love being prepared. I don't like the unexpected. And so if I see a problem on the horizon, I'm doing everything I can to make it not a problem before. it gets right up in my face. Well, Aaron on the other hand is like, oh, well, it's not a problem until a problem, like right like right there in your face.
And those are two very different methods of dealing with
Ayren: I'm going to tell you right now where that comes from. When I was a kid, I had like Garfield and friends on DVD. And there was this episode of Garfield and friends were like, the little duck was like, why are you worrying about [00:09:00] things? And then he's, oh man, what did he say?
This was like so golden. And he said, Um, there's no sense in worrying about the things you can control. And there's no sense in worrying about the things you can't control. And I was like, yo, this dude is spitting hot fire right now. We gotta get that duck on the podcast sometime. But, but yeah, like why worry about it?
Morgan: I mean, you can take care of the things that you can control. Like, if there are certain steps that I can take to make something, not a problem, like be proactive about it, I'm going to do it. So anyways, this is going to take away too much of the episode we're not talking about. problem solving, Um, or like marital problem solving.
That's another episode.
Ayren: Um,
Morgan: Aaron can let the problem get like right up on him. And then somehow it just all works out. Like everything's okay.
Ayren: good.
Morgan: Yeah. Like
Ayren: What can I say?
Morgan: just like all works out and I'm like how you didn't take a five step plan when this was a problem, three weeks ago, you waited until.
he got right up on you And it all works out. And I think what makes it not fair is that like I put [00:10:00] in so much effort. to try to, keep the problems out of our lives.
Ayren: better than me is what you're saying, because you're like, it's not fair. Cause you're better than me. I get
Morgan: No, I Just take so many steps and really, it should just be a lesson in letting go and ultimately God has control of everything.
and I have no control whatsoever.
Ayren: I think if me and you were in class together, you would be the kid that put in all the work on the group project. And I would be the one that just got the a, because I had my name.
Morgan: Yeah. So other situations. So if you can't relate to, you know, the different types of problem solving and it always working out for the other.
person, Um, I love you so much Um, then maybe you can relate to that person who does nothing and gets the, a on the project, or if you're passed up for a job, because, um, somebody else with just like different credentials is picked for a job, How'd
Ayren: like experience, like when they're like, oh, you need five years experience, but you've only been in the job force for like three.
And you're like, but I'm capable of doing these things, but like, Nope, you just haven't done it enough. Yeah.
Morgan: um, or Yeah, so [00:11:00] promotions, I feel like, are a thing that come up a lot or when good things happen to bad people. Um, I'm not saying you're a bad person,
Ayren: just not as good as you are. I get it.
Morgan: You just, you could prepare more for scenarios.
Ayren: it. Well. Okay. This is, this is, I'm glad you put it that way, because this is kind of the hinge that fairness relies upon. I think fairness is often based on what we think we deserve. Right. It's kind of in like in our situation, I think we're like the tortoise and the Hare in a way, you know, you're like I'm running real fast and I'm doing all this stuff and getting stuff done in the tortoise is just like slow and steady wins the race.
Like, I'll just keep on moseying along until I cross the finish line. And I say that jokingly, but let's, let's be serious. Right? Like fairness is usually based on what we think we deserve. And it's so funny because.
In the scenario that you listed and all of those things, you look at other people and you think this situation isn't fair, but you know who doesn't.
The people on the other side, like the person [00:12:00] that gets the a and the group project that didn't do anything. He didn't like this isn't fair. I don't deserve this. Like, nobody thinks that way. When you get a Christmas gift or a birthday gift, nobody's like, no, no, take this back. This is not fair. Or when somebody pays for your lunch, Like when you're just naturally more gifted or talented or attractive.
I was scrolling through Instagram earlier and there's a comedian Taylor Tomlinson, and she like posted a clip to her Instagram page. And she was like, do you ever meet like an attractive Christian? He was like, yeah, if I was hot, I believe in God. And it's like, that's just right. It's like, man, this is these things just kind of naturally work out for you.
And when those things work in our favor, we think, oh yeah,
Morgan: deserve.
Ayren: But when it doesn't, then we start questioning, well, God, are you good? Are you fair? Are you just, how do I know that you're doing all of these things? And so, uh, I think that the reason why this is important is that if we all have a disproportionate view of what we deserve, and we aren't careful that disproportionate view will [00:13:00] creep into our theology, it'll start to creep its way into what we think about God and how we imagine God to be.
Um, and I think that's just because that's the way the rest of the world. I like the rest of the world is like, what you put in is what you get out and you do this, there's an even consequence. But then we look at the gospel and the gospel doesn't entirely work that way. There is an F thinness to the Bible.
And I think we actually might do another episode on that somewhere down the line. This, if then this, we see God making these F then state. All throughout scripture, but then the gospel as a whole is not based on what we deserve. God doesn't work the way that we think that our normal idea of fairness works.
Morgan: Yeah. Before you get too far on that, I just have this thing that I think can go beyond this episode. I heard a while ago. And it was like, you can't take like the things that, you know, of the world and apply them to God. You have to take the way, like God and the kingdom work and apply it to the world.
Ayren: that's good. Do you remember who [00:14:00] said that?
Morgan: I
Ayren: I remember hearing that too, and I want to give them credit.
Morgan: but
Ayren: I don't remember
Morgan: somebody from our church.
Ayren: But
Morgan: that's in this situation, if we take the way that God approaches the gospel and fairness and apply it to our world, I think it'll save us from a lot of disappointment in everyday situations.
Ayren: I think this idea of recognizing that guy doesn't operate in fairness, the way. We would assume, um, is actually, it's definitely biblical. Um, if that makes you uncomfortable. Cause I know for me, if I hear the phrase, God isn't fair or the gospel isn't fair. I'm like, wait a minute, hold on now. Uh, and I would make the argument that God isn't fair, but he's just, and I do think there's a difference.
Uh, but if you look, um, Psalm chapter 1 0 3, this is a Psalm of David. Um, I just, I'm just going to read this really quick because I think it kind of paints a good framework for what we're going to be talking about the rest of the time. David writes, let all that. I am praise the Lord with my whole heart. I will praise his holy [00:15:00] name.
Let all that. I am praise the Lord. May I never forget the good things he does for me. He forgives all my sins and he heals all my diseases. He redeems me from death and crowns me with love and tender mercies. He fills my life with good things. My youth is renewed like the Eagles, the Lord gives righteousness and justice to all who are treated unfairly.
It's interesting. That idea of fairness pops up right there. Right? He revealed his character to Moses and his deeds to the people of Israel. The Lord is compassionate and merciful, slow to get angry and filled with unfailing love. Check this out. This is where this idea of fairness starts to pop up. He will not constantly accuse us nor remain angry forever.
He does not punish us for all of our sins. He does not deal harshly with us as we deserve. And when I read that, I go. Thank God that he is not fair because of God's idea of fairness was the same as my idea of [00:16:00] fairness. And that means I should get what I deserve and no matter how good I think I am, I'm not.
And so the fair thing would be for me to receive the full consequences of my sin. Romans 6 23 says that death is what we deserve. The wages of sin is death.
Morgan: right?
Ayren: That's what we deserve. And I love that it kind of uses that language of like the wages of sin. It's like, when you go to work, you expect a paycheck because it's what you deserve for your work.
And this is saying, no, the only thing you deserve is death and punishment for your sin, but that's not what God gives to us.
So
Ayren: I want to make a, a bit of a statement and a kind of the juxtaposition of the idea that the gospel isn't fair. I'm going to say that the gospel is not fair. It's good. And I think it's not until we recognize that it's not our goodness, but the goodness of God that we can even begin to be transformed by the gospel.[00:17:00]
So obviously the gospel is the good news. It's the story of God working in this world and what he's doing in this world. And, um, I think that while that thread runs through the entire Bible, Ephesians chapter one is one of those chapters that really is like, here is the gospel in like a pretty package with a bow on it.
You know, like, he's just like, this is what you need to know. Basically in the book of Ephesians, Paul is writing to the church of Ephesus to tell them about the newfound life that they have in Jesus. But first [00:18:00] he opens the book off by giving them and explaining the gospel. So really chapters one and like half of the beginning of chapter two, um, is really just Paul laying out the gospel for, he talks about the outflow, the overflow of it.
Right. Um, and so Morgan is going to read Ephesians chapter one verses three through 14 here for us. And then we're going to, we're going to go.
Morgan: All right. All praise to God, the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms, because we are United with Christ Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault, in his eyes. God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family, By bringing us to himself. through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do. and it gave him great pleasure. So we praise God for the glorious grace. He has poured out on us. who belong to his dear son. He [00:19:00] is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his son. and forgave our sins. He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding. God has now revealed to us, his mysterious will regarding Christ, which is to fulfill his own good plan. And this is the plan at the right time. He will bring everything together under the authority of Christ, everything in heaven and on earth. Furthermore, because we are United with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God for he chose us in advance and he makes everything work out.
according to his plan. God's purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory. to God. And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the good news that God saves
Ayren: me.
Morgan: And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own, by giving you the holy spirit whom he promised long ago.
The [00:20:00] spirit is God's guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased
us to be his own people.
He did this so we could praise and glorify him.
Ayren: well done. You have such a beautiful boy. That was for Dr. Tim Levair Denham Springs, Louisiana if you're listening to this, what I want you to do is I want you to go back like rewind a minute, go back to where we're Morgan, just read this and I want you to pay attention.
This is the gospel you're ready. I want you to pay attention to how much God does in this passage and how little you do.
Okay, now that you're back. If you didn't do it, go do it for real. I'm serious, but pay attention to how much God does in how little we do. And that's that idea of fairness like, man, if this was a scale, everything God does on one side would drastically outweigh the few things that we do. As a matter of fact, the only thing [00:21:00] that we contribute to this entire story is our sin.
That's it. And, you know, I taught on this passage a while ago and when I did, I said that, and it was one of those things that I don't think it was in my notes. And I said it, I was like, oh, that's good. Actually, it wasn't my notes. Cause there was a slide for it. I was like, oh, that's good. And like the church that I was speaking at, like posted about it on Instagram and that was the quote that they put at the bottom and like attributed it to me.
That's from Jonathan. No, I did not make that up. I was like, oh, that's such a golden nugget, but no, Jonathan Edwards said you contribute nothing to your salvation except for the sin. That makes it necessary. Amen. That is a gut punch because how often do we think, like in this idea of fairness, especially in the gospel, it's like, oh, well God, I deserve your best because X, Y, Z, because I'm a good Christian because I serve because I give, because I do all these things right.
Now we take all of those things and really try to equate them with, with our value to God. But what's so [00:22:00] beautiful about this passage is that it actually says that God chose us before the foundations of the earth to give us value. And he already knew that he was calling us to himself, but we try to put all of the power in us when really it's none of that.
It's just the sin that we've committed, that that makes. The Bible necessary. If you, if you have a paper Bible near you, I want you to grab it really quick and put your finger in Genesis chapter two, and look at those first two pages. The rest of it is necessary because of what we did on page two. Like that's it, that's the reason why we have the Bible because we jacked everything up and the rest is just a beautiful tapestry of God working.
To call us back to himself and we miss this and this man, how could you go to a church service when they're like, we're going to share the gospel today and get bored? How can you be like, been there, done that, heard this?
Morgan: Can I add an example? of, That's not fair. I look back at Adam and Eve and I'm like, [00:23:00] that's not fair. I wouldn't have
eaten from that tree. I say I wasn't in. this situation, but
Ayren: If it was chips and salsa on that tree wheat, sorry, sorry. Every future generation of the world. Not Morgan,
Morgan: Okay. When you contextualize it to me. Yes. Okay. What a fallen for the temptation, but not for like the fruit. Did I say apple earlier? Because I don't want to be attributed to like saying that it was an
Ayren: that's right. It was a
Morgan: don't, it was a fruit.
Ayren: don't know.
Morgan: Yes. So if I said apple, I retract that whatever fruit that Eve took off the tree.
Ayren: So important. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the gospel is, it's a beautiful, when you think about it, right?
Morgan: It is. And like, so I don't know if this is going to be almost the inverse of the thought, but there is this fantastic song, uh, called Gyra, um, by Maverick city music. And there's a line that I just like, quote [00:24:00] myself almost hourly and it's, I wasn't holding you up.
So there's nothing I can do to let you down. And That's more of like, man, I'm such a disappointment. and There's so much like terrible things. to So many terrible things that I do. And I feel like I'm constantly letting God down, but also there was nothing I was doing to hold God up. Like I, I can't like I wasn't putting him where he is based on like my good deeds, and like all, all of that.
So there's never a moment when I'm going to deserve you. Can't earn it, I think is the point that I'm trying. to make. Um, Yeah.
Ayren: Yeah. That's, that's the thing to have a gift that good. And then to receive it for free is the part of this where I'm like, thank God that you're not. Thank God that you don't give me what I deserve, but, but let's be real like this when you put it this way.
And when we talk about it this way, [00:25:00] it seems like a no-brainer, right? Like it's a lay up, like, yeah. Why wouldn't I want that? Like, if somebody is like, Hey, you want the keys to this Tesla? You'd be like, yeah, well, I'm not even going to think twice about it. Right. So if grace is even better than that, if grace is that good, then why is it such a hard pill to swallow for so many people?
And why do you think that it's such a hard gift to receive? If it's that.
Morgan: I think the same thing I said earlier of like, we can't take what we know about the world and apply it to God. I think we still try to do that in this scenario and there's you have to earn everything in this world. Like there's like people for the most part are not just handing things out for free.
Oh man.
Ayren: a STEMI.
Morgan: Um,
Ayren: it back. Joe
Morgan: Oh, my goodness. I thought we were going to get through the episode without talking about stimulus checks.
Ayren: is no, I'm kidding, but [00:26:00] yeah, you make a good point.
Morgan: So it's hard to grasp that there is something that God is willing to give me that I didn't have to do anything. to get. And I think that this is probably going beyond the like boundary of this episode, but it kind of calls back to, our episode of worship and that worship is like the ultimate response to the gospel.
Like I think about how, like, every time somebody gives me something, I want to repay them. Like I constantly, me and my best friend, like we'll buy each other, lunch or send each other money or for birthdays or whatever. And it's constantly like paying each other back and hoping to get down to that zero, but there's like, I'm never, ever, ever going to be able to give enough to God, to ever like bring it back to zero.
And that just like, it's an [00:27:00] overwhelming, God has given me so much in the gospel that it leads me to really the only response is just. On my knees, like crying, like screaming, singing, the whatever worship song is playing on the radio. Or if I'm in like in church, um, like, that is the response.
Like there's nothing else I can do in response to the gospel.
Yeah. We saw a video just earlier today of a family in Nigeria, who the father was killed because they were Christians. And the two sons were like attacked and like stabbed. One of them was like slid across the back of his neck. It was crazy. And just seeing how joyful that family still was. I walked away from that video thinking, man, if the gospel cost me my life, that's too low of a cost.
Ayren: I think it's that good.
Morgan: And
Ayren: it's probably worth more than me standing in a worship service with one [00:28:00] hand in a pocket and the other hand and gripping a cup of coffee, like it's undignified, ugly worship, full response to how good got it.
Morgan: Have you ever seen the good place Yes, I ask as we watched?
it together, um, Sometimes I think
Ayren: it,
Morgan: I don't want to say it would be easier, but it's just more straightforward. Like There for people who haven't seen the good place, I'm not going to spoil it, but you basically, for every action, you either earn points it's or lose points, So like the good things. you earn points in the bad things. You lose points and it's green, and [00:29:00] it's red. super straightforward. And just to call back to earlier, and like me planning ahead. I would have a spreadsheet, like projecting, like all of the good potential points I could get and all the bad. potential
Ayren: Could you imagine all the apps that would be out to help you keep track of
Morgan: you can do this really bad thing tonight, as long as you dot.dot tomorrow.
Yes. So I would have this way of knowing, like I'm going to end up with like positive, whatever. I need, Get my like platinum place in the good place. And then some fluke would happen. and I like, They would change the rules. And like, I would do this one, like it wasn't supposed to be such a bad thing, but then it ended up being a bad thing and like deduce all like deduct all my points and then Aaron would walk in and be like, oh, I just got my platinum.
Ayren: game.
I didn't know. You guys were keeping score
Morgan: he just walks in and he's got like a napkin folded in his pocket. where you tallied A few things, and you get your platinum spot in the good place. And then I'm sitting in the dump. Um,
Ayren: I get what you're saying though. Like, [00:30:00] yeah. Um, I'm kinda glad it doesn't work that way. Cause we would leave live totally different.
Like don't have so many other ramifications on the way we lived our lives, but it's, you know, when I was a kid, I used to always struggle and like, actually question am I saved? Like how do I know that it stuck? Like I prayed the prayer for the 15th time this summer, is this the time that I'm actually saved?
Morgan: And
Ayren: If there was some sort of scorecard or like sheet where I could keep up with everything that I did, of course I'd obsess over it, but I think would be, it'd be a solid way for me to kind of find this. Sense of comfort, but then it's not even a sense of comfort because there's just pride, self pride in what I've done.
Right. And it has nothing then to do with the gospel. And in what you were talking about earlier, when you talked about worship was so key because like, even that idea of like pouring our heart out in worship is like, that's not even enough.
Morgan: just a response.
Ayren: It's a response to what Jesus has done. And [00:31:00] so how do I receive this free gift of grace?
Well, I have to believe in what Jesus has done for me and realize that there's nothing I could do for myself and that's man, that's the thing, right? Like that's, that's where the thing is. And so, you know, Paul in Ephesians two, he tells her, I'm sorry, in Ephesians chapter one, he tells us that we have to believe, but, but what does it even mean to.
I think it's kind of twofold. I think it's two things. One, you recognize the fact that God has an ultimate plan. Paul talks about that all throughout Ephesians, that God has an ultimate plan. That's the first part. The second part is, is you recognize that you play a part in that plan. Here's the thing God's doing, what God wants to do when we say yes to following him.
The only thing that changes is that we go in line with the way that things actually are. Because before that we're, we're waking up every day, trying our best, sending our good vibes, trying to [00:32:00] manifest things, talking to the universe. You know what I'm talking about? Like, this is all the stuff that we come up with.
And it's like, we come up with all these plans and methods of how we think the world works, but God says, no, listen, if you will just believe that I'm already doing something in the world, right. If you come under that and you play a part in the plan, what I'm carrying out in the world, that's what it means to believe.
You recognize that God is doing something in the world, and then you, your life lives in accordance with that. Like we know things like you can know things about God, but then when you believe it, you actually live different and you actually become a part of the plan of what he's doing in the world.
Morgan: Yeah.
Ayren: I, um,
Morgan: you set me up wonderfully because you said plan and me and my practical applications, um, of like, so believing is hard and there are things that we try to do. Instead like, [00:33:00] um,
Ayren: instead of bullying we defaulted doing, yes.
Morgan: I've never felt more known
than I do right now, the default to doing, um, I mean, they're they're examples.
I'm
Ayren: just going to, I'm just going to paraphrase that really quick for anybody who's listening and may be struggling it's instead of resting, you're doing, instead of being, you're doing. Instead of enjoying the gift of God, you feel like you have to earn the gift of God.
And maybe I feel like indebted
Morgan: to God for like giving me grace and for sending Jesus to die on a cross. And and trying to pay him back.
Ayren: Hmm. Well, I mean, to be fair, Romans 12 one, right? So is that our lives are living sacrifice and it's in response to what God has done. So we do, we do. Sacrifice ourselves.
I'm going to talk about that more as we get into these other concepts over the course of the series. Um, but it's out of an [00:34:00] overflow. It's not out of like I'm earning, right. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think what tends to happen kind of that doing mindset is that people are like, oh, well maybe I need to find like a new smile.
Morgan: group,
Ayren: Or maybe I need to read my Bible more or maybe I need to find a place to serve, or maybe I need to give more money. All of those are good things that we should be doing.
Morgan: Maybe not finding a new small group, every, like
Ayren: we'll like find a new spot I'm talking about, like, if you don't have one, right, like I need to get plugged in. I need to, like, I need to do, I need to check all the boxes on the like Christian to-do list.
Right. All the things
Morgan: If you're in a good small group, don't leave your small group
Ayren: Unless it's time to make a new smell.
Morgan: Yeah. And
Ayren: that's the only time then, but, but I think what happens is, is the problem with all these things though, even though they are intrinsically good, um, we treat those things like the end, as opposed to the means by which we grow closer to God, [00:35:00] because then we think we're earning our salvation.
If we get a small group, we're earning our salvation. If we read more, we're earning our salvation. If we find a place to start, we're earning our salvation. If we give more money
Morgan: we're racking up those green
Ayren: that's right. But that's not it like the purpose. Uh, finding a small group is not to fulfill your needs is to be a part of a group of people who will remind you what it is that you need to believe.
Morgan: Oh man. So today you and I both listened to the message from our weekend service at church, and there's like this great example. And of course we were listening to it, so we didn't see it, but the pastor like called someone on stage. And had this moment where he like pushed him and he was like, that was a little dramatic.
And I really want to know what the person did, like when he put the like fall down, but he was like your group. It was about the importance of community, but it was like, your group should be pushing you towards God, pushing you towards like, just a deeper relationship to God. So yeah. [00:36:00] So. your group, isn't God,
Ayren: No, you being a part of your group, isn't you being done with the God thing?
That's not a box. You check off you're with that group that they put you push you closer towards God. I'm reading your Bible more. That was another example that we've listed. You don't read your Bible so that you can say you completed your reading plain. You read your Bible because you need a reminder of the story that God has put in emotion.
And you need a reminder of how you play a part in that this all comes back to believing, finding a place to start. Great thing, highly recommended. Don't serve, get serving somewhere. I know a great middle school ministry you can get plugged into, but it's not to make you feel better about yourself. It's so that you can be the hands and feet of Jesus so that you can point other people so that to the gospel so that they can believe you want to give more
Morgan: and then they can have this moment of like, man, I don't have to do things to receive it.
And you Just send them this podcast link,
Ayren: make disciples. That's gosh, it's such a crazy concept. Isn't it? It's wild. [00:37:00] The
Morgan: was just come full circle. Yeah. yeah.
Ayren: Yeah. All comes back to this idea of discipleship, which is really the reason why we started this podcast because let's be honest, a lot of churches are dropping the ball on this,
Morgan: I don't like calling people out. so I bring it more.
self-reflective that I am not doing a great job
Ayren: also true. Okay. Let me put it this way. Most communities of faith don't put enough of an emphasis on you're following Jesus. Well,
Morgan: you need to
Ayren: Push somebody you need to grab somebody else and then help them walk on that path with Jesus as well. I don't think that happens. Like if you went to people who've been going to church for years and said, Hey, who are you discipling right now?
How many of them realistically would have an answer? Or if I went to someone and said, who decided.
Morgan: you,
Ayren: Who is teaching you the way, who are you living life? So intimately with now, some people would probably list someone. And then if I went to that person, say, Hey, so-and-so said you're discipling them. They'd be like, what?
That'd be fair. [00:38:00] Right? Sometimes it just happens naturally. So it doesn't have to feel as formal as I am discipling. So and so like it happens pretty naturally, but it should be a priority. It should be a priority. Why? Because the gospel is the greatest gift of the world has ever seen. And all we have to do to receive it is, believe it in there.
So many people out there who don't believe it because they don't know it. They don't know the real gospel. I mean, if you were to go out and ask somebody in your own words, explain to me the gospel and they were to say, um, Jesus died for my sins and now I go to heaven. Okay. Can you explain it? Like, how does that work?
Like if you're talking to somebody who's not a Christian and they were like, oh, so some guy died 2000 years ago. And so now my soul's good, like.
Morgan: how does that,
Ayren: What does that mean?
Morgan: I think in order to understand that we go So the place where the truth is, and that's in the Bible. And we went to this path, we started with this passage earlier in Ephesians chapter one.
And, um, if you went [00:39:00] back and replayed, you heard the HES and the hymns and the gods and the Jesus and the spirit, and like all of that that they did. And you probably counted how many times you did something and you were. probably receiving stuff. There there was nothing that you had to do in that passage. You were kind of probably standing there awkwardly.
And like, when someone sings, happy birthday to you, you just don't know what to do. And God's like, here are my blessings and hear his wisdom and his kindness and understanding, and like, there's so much stuff that God did and we didn't have to do anything. And that's what brings us to this conclusion of like, we don't do good things.
To earn our salvation. We do, um, from the overflow of believing that. this is
Ayren: Hmm. That's good. Yeah. So it's not the earning
Morgan: or
Ayren: it's living out of that place of man. This is what God has done. He's blessed me with these spiritual blessings. And now, [00:40:00] now my life has changed and I get to change the lives of others around me and all.
Yeah, that's good.
Morgan: I'm going to keep talking Cause I keep having ideas and responses to things. So we don't have to include this, um, it Cooper will propel. it. It'll send us into like the next few weeks that we talk about this. Um, completely
Ayren: oh my gosh, come back for more next week.
Morgan: oh, Just how much more fueling it is to. Do the things out of the overflow then to do them out of trying to earn obligation.
Ayren: Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. That's a, that's a great segue
Morgan: is I can't believe I came up with
Ayren: into our next. Episode, not segment. Yeah. We're going to, I think we're going to cut it there. That's pretty good. But I'm excited for this series. I think we're going to have some really good conversation. It's getting back to the basics, but I think we have to, because we get [00:41:00] so bogged down in the details and all these different things.
And if we don't catch this, we miss out completely on what it means to be a disciple. So thank you so much for listening to episode eight of the true discipleship podcast. I'm Aaron.
Morgan: And I'm Morgan,
Ayren: we will see you next week as we continue our series in two weeks. I'm sorry. See you in two weeks, we continue our series on the gospel.