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Ryan explores real-life issues through honest conversations with guests. As a pastor with over 20 years of experience, and the Senior Pastor of New Life Church in Witbank, Ryan delves into how a God meets us in our struggles, offering practical insights and transformative stories. It’s engaging, relatable, and aimed at inspiring real change.
Emma 0:00
Would lock us in there for days on end and disappear. There was not food around, there was not water. There was no one besides us taking care of each other and just hoping that at some point she's going to come back and unlock the room and we can go out again. The fact that someone actually said something and got us the help we needed, I'm so grateful to God. That is God's intervention. Completely
Ryan Langkilde 0:25
I realized that what was a very joyful day for us was probably a very traumatic day for you. We've seen racism on both sides of the aisle. You know, we've seen African people very upset that we've brought you in, and we've seen white people who like don't understand it. Have you found your relationship with Jesus helping in those wounds
Emma 0:49
you Well,
Ryan Langkilde 1:05
welcome back to another episode of Real talk, real change, where we have real conversations about real issues with a real God. I'm grateful that you have logged on and joined us today, and if this has been blessing, you consider hitting that subscribe button or the Follow button that really helps boost the podcast to other platforms and reach other people that might also need to hear some of these conversations. And today, I'm very excited about this. It has been something that myself and this guest have been speaking about for quite a while, because today on this podcast, I have my daughter with me, Emma, welcome to Real talk, real change with your dad.
Emma 1:46
Hi, thank you for having
Ryan Langkilde 1:48
me. Um, I would. It's such a pleasure. What an honor just to be able to have a chat with my daughter about her life. And why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners today.
Emma 1:58
Hi, as you heard, my name is Emma. I am a wife to one and a mom to one as well to my little Macau, and I'm very blessed to be here with my dad.
Ryan Langkilde 2:09
Woo hoo. As you heard, Emma also has a child. So about just over a year ago, she made me a granddad, me and my wife. So man. What a what a journey. What a cute little kid, that kid has crawled into our into our hearts. It's very true what they say about the love you have for kids and grandkids like it's it is pretty remarkable. But EMS, I mean, why I was excited for us to have this chat with the world today is because I just think you got a really special story, and that God has done some beautiful things in your life. For those who maybe can't tell Emma is adopted. So thinking I'm just like, yeah, in case you're like, trying to figure out how it's all working out whether we adopted Emma about a month or two before her fourth birthday. So when she came to us, she was just three years old. Now, fun fact, my wife and I, first of all, we actually really considered adopting already. When we were dating, we spoke about adoption on our literally on our first date, my wife and I felt like that was going to be part of our story that God wanted for our lives, but when it did eventually come that we could look after little baby, we put our names up with an organization, and they phoned us and they told us there's a little boy that would we consider being a place of safety for which means just a temporary place of care. And so we went and bought little boy clothes for three year old little boy. And when we got there, they had told us that that little boy who was dirty and rough and unkempt, had gone for a bath, and then had discovered the little boy was a little girl. And so that is how we got Emma. We had to go right back to the shops. We picked her up and go change all the little boy stuff, a little girl stuff. And it was literally the day our lives changed. And I'm so grateful for that moment. But in hindsight, you know, we've been able to adopt a few times. Now I realized that what was a very joyful day for us. Was probably a very traumatic day for you. I don't think we had that in mind.
Emma 4:27
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 4:28
that you I know we, my wife and I were conscious of that, like we spoke about the fact that, you know, shame she's lost her whole life. But I think we were just a bit young and naive, and we were so excited to try on this parenting thing, and to have a child come into our lives and to kick start our family. When you came to us, you didn't even speak English, yeah, like you said nothing in English. I don't I don't even think you could say hello, like you were fully, fully fully speaking only. An African language. So that must have also been really weird coming into this home. It's just speaking to in a language you don't even understand shame.
Emma 5:08
You
Ryan Langkilde 5:09
couldn't even explain how to go to the toilet. I mean, it was like you had no way of communicating with us. Do you remember that kind of has struggling to communicate with us, or us talking a language that you and you thinking, what are these crazy, these crazy white people say,
Emma 5:27
I wish no, not, not really, hey. But I mean, it's not just me. You guys also have to now try and adjust as well, because when you were signing up for this baby and you had this child, you didn't think, okay, but they can't speak the same. No,
Ryan Langkilde 5:47
we had no clue. Yeah.
Emma 5:48
So I think as much as it was hard for me then, and hard to understand you guys, and was definitely a big adjustment, I think it's also something you guys weren't. Were you prepared for that? Something you were really ready for, because you were maybe ready to try this parenting thing out, but no, not with the knowledge of, oh my goodness, this is a whole language barrier, like you can't communicate at all, which is harder, because not only do you want to comfort me and see like where you can help me and do the things I've been through, but now you can't, because I don't understand you
Emma 6:25
and
Ryan Langkilde 6:26
and we didn't know what was going on in your head.
Emma 6:28
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 6:28
but you couldn't communicate, although you spoke a lot. So this is, I think it was funny, as you chatted a lot. I mean, you in the back of the car, in the lounge, you would just talk, talk, talk, talk. We just didn't know what you were saying. So we would just be like, Uh huh. Often thought I wonder how many things we agreeing to and you're like, well, when's it gonna happen? Like you just said, I could have asked you. Like, we're like, so yeah, it was definitely a learning barrier. And it's amazing how you kind of changed and adapted to your new family, which, which? I want to get to just now, but I first want to reverse and just kind of talk about your family situation when you came out of that family. What do you remember? Do you have any memories before being in our family?
Emma 7:14
Yes. So I remember how where we stayed looked, that memory is burnt into my mind. It's very odd I remember,
Ryan Langkilde 7:25
hey, can you explain it? Yeah, so describe it.
Emma 7:29
It was like a room, and not a very beautiful room to start with. There was lots of zinc, and it was green on the outside. And I remember, like, sort of like a carpet, but it was weird, because the carpet went down like this, and then there was a bit of a window the side, and then the bed was this side. That's the setup I remember.
Ryan Langkilde 7:56
And all of you in that one room,
Speaker 1 7:58
yeah.
Ryan Langkilde 7:58
How many of you were in
Emma 7:59
that room? There was four, five of us in that room with my mom. I don't really remember dad or man being around I think I've just either forgotten or it's deep in those memories, but I do remember that room quite clearly and how the carpet felt when you walked on it, because it
Emma 8:21
was
Ryan Langkilde 8:21
cold, okay?
Emma 8:21
It was very cold, yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 8:24
yeah. So you came from a home that was, was your home, but it was a bit of a shack that you were living in, and a lot of you were living in that, yeah. And then at some point, this is before we even knew you or your family, but the family was reported to social services, and you were removed. What were the circumstances that warranted that removal?
Emma 8:48
My mom was not in shape at all to be a mother, to start with. She was doing a lot of drugs, drinking a lot of alcohol. But not only was that the problem, she would take us with her into bars or taverns, and then also she would forget about us, that room really was our everything. She would lock us in there for days on end and disappear. There was not food around, there was not water, there was no one besides us taking care of each other and just hoping that at some point she's going to come back and unlock the room and we can go out again. So that's someone saw that situation and reported us. And I'm very grateful that we got to be removed from that because I don't know where we would be now, where I would be now, living in those circumstances, the decisions that would have changed,
Ryan Langkilde 9:47
yeah,
Emma 9:47
my whole future
Ryan Langkilde 9:48
when I think about that. So there are nights where my mind starts to drift and I start to think about it almost makes me panic, thinking about where would you be. Yeah. And and you know your other brothers and sisters that we've adopted that thought of you could literally be on the street or be working the streets, or be in a ditch somewhere, or not have even made it to this age. Like it's crazy that just a few human decisions altered the whole course of your life, you know, and you think, Lord, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Like, that's how I feel, is like, because it could have been a very different story. For a lot of people, it is a different story. There's a lot of people that don't get any help in those situations. So do you look back at, do you, are you like, do you accredit God to any of of that kind of removing you from that situation? Yes,
Emma 10:41
completely. I think without God, it wouldn't have happened at all, because the area that I was staying even, nobody is gonna just randomly go to social services because they see the situation. This situation happens every day. Yeah, someone is in the situation in in township areas or more poverty ridden areas all the time, and no one says anything. You can see kids walking around half naked and dirty, and they don't say anything. Yeah, the fact that someone actually said something and got us the help we needed, I'm so grateful to God. That is God's intervention. Completely without God. I probably, like you said, would have been completely different, different situation, different person, different opportunities,
Ryan Langkilde 11:30
different education.
Emma 11:31
Yeah, yeah, if education at all that wasn't on the agenda for me, yeah. So I can't say that it would have turned out just fine. So I'm so grateful to God that he intervened through that person, that that person spoke up. I think a lot of people are also scared to speak up in these situations, because they never want to, or they might say they don't want to overstep boundaries, or other parents, and some of them don't want to see them get taken away from their parents, because that is hard. It is traumatizing. It's
Ryan Langkilde 12:05
no matter how bad your parents are, you want to live with them,
Emma 12:07
yes? And the thing is also hard, because you don't know if anything is going to change, if they're going to help.
Ryan Langkilde 12:13
Yeah,
Emma 12:13
those children or now you've just made yourself a target for reporting something like that. So it's hard, and I'm so grateful that God nonetheless stepped forward through that person to change that situation.
Ryan Langkilde 12:27
Who was all, when you say like we had to look after ourselves or we were locked in? So
Ryan Langkilde 12:36
who was the we like? How and how old were they?
Emma 12:39
So it's my older, oldest sister, then my
Ryan Langkilde 12:46
and how old was she at that time?
Emma 12:47
At that time, I think she was maybe 13. And then my other older sister as well, she was about also 11, and then me, which was almost four, and then my older brother,
Ryan Langkilde 13:05
your younger brother, oh, your older
Emma 13:07
brother, yeah, he also was, he's not that much older than me, so maybe he was like, nine, nine,
Ryan Langkilde 13:13
yeah, and, and you had a younger brother,
Emma 13:16
yes, and I had a younger brother, But he was baby, baby. So at that time, he was couple months old, even a couple weeks
Ryan Langkilde 13:27
told. I remember hearing stories about you almost being a mommy to younger brother and looking after him, which now in context, is like, but you were three. That's crazy. It's crazy to me that you had any responsibility over a baby. Do you remember any of that?
Emma 13:46
Not quite, but I know that when you're forced into situations like that, you have to adapt. There's just no choice to be a child. There's no choice to play or think about how hungry you are. It's now survival. It's now that I'm I need to take care of this baby, because there's no one else to do it like we have to stick together. We have to sure be there for each other. We have to make sure that we stay alive. That's That's it, because she wasn't doing it. My mom was high somewhere. She was doing whatever she felt like doing, forgetting that she had responsibilities. Why she continued to have more responsibilities?
Ryan Langkilde 14:35
Yeah,
Emma 14:35
I don't know, but, and
Ryan Langkilde 14:37
maybe it wasn't even a choice for her.
Emma 14:38
Yeah, you
Ryan Langkilde 14:39
know? I mean, I think we've seen so many women in ministry, in that position. From the outside, you're like, just stop having kids
Emma 14:45
see but
Ryan Langkilde 14:46
actually, when you're in that situation, it's so part of their culture. Birth control is not promoted in any form, and sometimes even the intimacy that's causing those kids. Wasn't chosen. Sometimes it's been forced upon, you know? So, yeah, it gets, it's, it's that kind of poverty so destructive.
Emma 15:09
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 15:09
there's just nothing good that really comes out of that. And then it increases. When you're adding more people. You already don't have enough. Now, the family's getting bigger. Now,
Emma 15:19
yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 15:20
the few resources you didn't have, you still have to share that. So, so yeah, then you just getting locked in the house or locked out the house.
Emma 15:27
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 15:27
do you do? You know, then how you guys found food? Like, how did you eat?
Emma 15:34
So when we were outside the house, we would go to churches. My brother would walk with me, we would walk together and go to churches, and sometimes they would feed us.
Ryan Langkilde 15:47
Shout out to the churches. That's why we do that work, because it's literally saves lives.
Emma 15:52
It does, and I know he always made sure I ate enough before he touched any food.
Emma 15:59
Sure
Emma 15:59
it was very important for him to see that I was okay before he thought about himself, which I'm so grateful for, because God's also one of
Ryan Langkilde 16:08
good for others.
Emma 16:09
You feel sorry I am here today. So at least they, they were caring. Even though it was about survival. It was that we survived together. It wasn't ever the selfish moments that came that I was like, But I'm hungry now, and I need to eat long or me first, you know, not fighting over food. It was that we all have enough. You
Ryan Langkilde 16:30
said sometimes that churches would help. So what
Emma 16:33
would you do if they didn't? It's, it's not that I remember too much of those situations. So it was mainly that
Ryan Langkilde 16:45
okay
Emma 16:45
if the churches were open, because not church, churches are not open every day. So in those situations, I think you just go home, or you you scavenge through dustbins.
Emma 16:59
Is
Ryan Langkilde 16:59
that what your do? You know that that happened?
Emma 17:02
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 17:03
okay.
Emma 17:03
And the times that we weren't outside and we were inside the house, I am actually it's so weird. I'm terrified of bugs. For those
Ryan Langkilde 17:13
thinking, I think it's one of the reasons God got you out of that space, because you ate any bug. She freaks out.
Emma 17:21
A butterfly is very beautiful from a distance. Yeah, I am, yeah, an ant is very scary to me. But back then, that was Plant B food, if I were stuck in that house and there was a bug that was something you could eat, sure, unfortunately, but that was that, was that
Ryan Langkilde 17:43
were your older siblings in school at that time?
Emma 17:45
No, they didn't have any form of education. Yeah.
Ryan Langkilde 17:51
So it's rough, because I know they jumped into schooling so late,
Emma 17:55
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 17:55
and they've actually done remarkable for to have their backstory, but yeah, I mean, it's such a disservice, isn't it like to those kids,
Emma 18:03
see,
Ryan Langkilde 18:04
really, see there was no future. And actually it's such a blessing, because a lot of those kids, Emma's siblings, got adopted or bought in by also other families in our church.
Emma 18:16
So
Ryan Langkilde 18:17
it was actually such a I mean, I look back now and say, like, God, you really had your hand on these kids, because even to keep that family connection is not something a lot of kids get. Yeah, because there must have been, just to go back to the day we received, you must have actually been so traumatic, because you've lost your mom, which I'm sure you loved, even though, because that's the only mom you knew. You know every three year old loves appearance. But then you also lost all these siblings that are your teammates are feeding you and caring for you. You're in a different town almost all together, because it's a part of town you weren't living in,
Emma 18:54
yeah, and
Ryan Langkilde 18:54
then you were two with two white people who don't even speak your language. So, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's sad in a way, if you look at it through that lens of everything you lost, but that's almost what needed to happen for your life to be saved.
Emma 19:12
Yes, no, it definitely did need to happen. And I am so thankful that your God was really just there throughout this whole process of everything that happened, because, like you said, that people in the church gave my siblings homes too, and that entailed that I could see them, that I could have access to them, that I could still continue that brother sister relationship with them, where, if God wasn't there, they could have easily went to other homes, far away, and
Ryan Langkilde 19:48
just people we didn't know. Yeah,
Emma 19:49
we didn't know. Or, in fact, no one could have, because of their ages. That's another factor that not everybody wants a teenager or almost teenage. Kid, you stay with them. It's hard, it's hard. So I'm just thankful that, nonetheless, God allowed or paved the way for this to happen, so that I could still have relationships with them to this day.
Ryan Langkilde 20:13
What a blessing.
Speaker 1 20:14
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 20:14
I love our gods in the details, like the way he takes care of people is,
Emma 20:19
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 20:19
it's amazing to me. M zone, in those communities, there's often just lawlessness and violence and abuse and drunkenness. Do you think your family was ever exposed to that?
Emma 20:32
A lot of it? I think they definitely were exposed to a lot of it. And there was things that we used to talk about sea and that weren't lovely at all. And I'm just also thankful that they didn't turn towards all the things they saw, because I think those environments allow things to grow in you, allow you to make decisions like they could have started drugs or drinking with my mom as well, or just joined her in those manners and they didn't. What was important to them was rather staying in line and getting out of this. Then, while I might as well, since the opportunities there or that they felt so darkened by the the situation that they just succumbed to everything they saw.
Ryan Langkilde 21:31
Yeah, so
Emma 21:32
it's very those things aren't hidden in such circumstances. They're not always hidden because, as a parent, as parents now our we protect our kids from those things. We would never go into taverns with our children or bars with our children. We'd never put them in a situation, even at home, where adults are drinking wildly and getting drunk, and that's just the culture, and it's okay. That's not something. That's what you shield your kids from now,
Ryan Langkilde 22:07
yeah,
Emma 22:07
but that's not what happened with us. Nobody shielded us from that stuff. Sure, that stuff was very much what we saw, because we were brought into those situations where people were drinking and people were doing drugs, and no one said, Oh no, like, don't just around my kids, or don't like, you're not running from it. You don't have the opportunity to turn away from it when it's in your face.
Ryan Langkilde 22:32
That's why I think a lot of poverty and addiction is so generational, because you're growing up, and that's what adults do.
Emma 22:40
Yes, then
Ryan Langkilde 22:41
when you become an adult, that's what you do. So there really has to be such a violent interruption, like a Damascus Road moment, where God just steps in and, like, almost cuts a family tree
Emma 22:51
Yes, and
Ryan Langkilde 22:52
like, hey, let's do a hard reset, which is what I felt like he's done with you and your siblings. So So you come and live with us at the age of three, and suddenly you got this new family. What do you remember about those early days? Because do you remember us not feeling yet like mom and dad?
Emma 23:12
No, which is probably weird. Yeah, I think my brain has tried to protect me from as much as possible, so those things are really pushed back, but I do know that I really struggled when it came to sleeping. There's a lot of nightmares, and I think it was the first time I really slept alone, not that I was alone, that I was sleeping like no one is there
Ryan Langkilde 23:42
in the room.
Emma 23:43
In the room,
Ryan Langkilde 23:43
yeah, because
Emma 23:45
there's no one right next to me or nearby, or I'm waking up and I see my siblings or wherever, like it's me and this room, I
Ryan Langkilde 23:58
remember how terrifying it was for you. If we put you in a timeout, that was the worst punishment, especially if we closed the room, the door of the room, like we might put your involvement, okay, just, you know, stay here for five minutes if we close that door, it was like, you just couldn't handle that being alone. But I guess when you look all these years of your life, you hadn't been alone. Yeah, you had been like, literally, with someone in a small room, and like, now the space is almost frightening.
Emma 24:26
Yeah, no, it definitely was. It was a big change. Yeah, it was a big adjustment, but we worked to it. We eventually it wasn't so scary anymore. But I think even still, to this day, there's some something that I don't like. I will always keep the door open, even when I was a teen, always keeps the door open because I just don't like that feeling of being in a room alone. This is not nice. I feel trapped. And I actually still, even my teen years had. Nightmares of not being able to get to the door, like to open the door, like I just couldn't
Ryan Langkilde 25:07
do it.
Emma 25:10
Actually, I can't find the door. I wake up in a panic that I can't find the door and I can't nobody. So I think that's just something that came from, from being with someone, yeah, that I still had siblings to be with, even though we couldn't open the door.
Ryan Langkilde 25:31
So I'm quite interested to kind of dig into how that upbringing and the trauma of losing your family in one day and getting a new family, how that's affected your life, and what kind of you know, what did they do? And then how did you kind of find healing for those things? So maybe we can start, I mean, there's a lot of dialog, even in our country, about cross cultural adoption. You've lived it now, and there's a lot of people who feel like children who are one race, if they get adopted by another race that they grew up really resenting that, you know, obviously there must be some struggle with that. So let's start there, like what was a struggle with having white parents and not being white yourself?
Emma 26:18
Racism as the first one, but I think
Ryan Langkilde 26:22
maybe explain it.
Emma 26:24
So okay, I'm gonna use scenarios, because it's just easier to explain how it felt. Okay, at school, I didn't know the languages. I didn't know African languages, and that was a thing, because a lot of my classmates were of color, and then they want to speak to me, and I say, oh, sorry, I only know English. So to a lot of African people, it says that you're snobbish. I don't know why it became a thing, but then,
Ryan Langkilde 26:51
like you're better than and I'll say that. I mean, it's probably one of our biggest regrets as parents, is not ourselves learning African dialects to teach to you guys, because I think that is almost assumed. You know, I, as a white person, people assume I speak Afrikaans,
Emma 27:07
yes.
Ryan Langkilde 27:08
And I do, I do speak the dialect, just not well. So I try avoid it. I'm not great at Afrikaans. But I think there's also that assumption, if you're African, that you must speak in African dialect,
Emma 27:19
yes. And so. I think there was so many instances like where people wouldn't even talk to me because I said, I only speak English, I'm sorry, and they stopped the conversation. But then also, when it came to, please don't take it wrong if I say white people, white people. There was a time where I was with Micah in spur.
Ryan Langkilde 27:44
Micah is her white little brother,
Emma 27:46
yes, yes. And I had smacked his hand because he had, he had hit another child in spur, but I knew, like, like, I didn't do that, yeah. And this white lady came and shouted at me, you can't touch other people's kids. Well, how do you think? Because now I'm a black girl, you're smacking a white child. And then also, if you walk around, I don't know, I think you also experience some difference in the way people treat you. Look at you, people stare, and you hear chatter as you walk by, and so like it was the little things that language barriers, and then also just some people don't approve, yeah, necessarily still, of like, they're not too fond of mixed race families.
Ryan Langkilde 28:38
We've seen racism on both sides of the aisle.
Emma 28:41
You
Ryan Langkilde 28:41
know, we've seen African people very upset that we've brought you in, and we've seen white people who, like, don't understand it. And so it's just so crazy to me that the color of your skin affects anything like it's just bonkers to me that it's still an issue, but it is still very much an issue for a lot of people. And the staring happened a lot. I mean, you used to get really bothered by the stairs. I think as you put as you started to develop confidence, you would like, stare back and pull your tongue, and you'd be like, stop serving me. I want to stare at you. No,
Emma 29:14
no, I definitely did. I even do with my best friend, Alyssa. She's kind of and we just go out, and then people staring like this, and then I just developed this thing stare back until you look away.
Emma 29:29
Yes,
Emma 29:29
you're not gonna intimidate me for being myself, like there's nothing wrong with this. Just because you don't approve of it, it's okay. Yes, you don't make your decision there. Yeah, you don't have to let us know that you don't approve of it. We're okay. So, yeah, but I mean also for you, like, how did you navigate when people would ask questions or stare or make comments when you were with me and we were out? Like, how did you approach those situations? Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 29:54
I think we try to be gracious, but it's hard sometimes, because it can get very irritating. Um.
Emma 30:00
Um,
Ryan Langkilde 30:00
when you go check out at the till and I'm with you kids, and they're like, Why do you have the OCS kids with you? What are the maids kids you know? You're like, no, like, these are my children or or people will say, and please, if you have it, if you know anyone has adopted kids, please don't ask them this question. They would say, so you got your kids with you, and they'd say, Do you have any? Do you have any of your own kids?
Emma 30:22
Yes,
Ryan Langkilde 30:23
I'd be like, they're all my own. I've adopted them. They're mine. Like, what do you mean? You know,
Emma 30:27
yes. And
Ryan Langkilde 30:28
so there's this language people expected to be like, No, but your own, own, you know, like, yes, we have biological kids, but these are our children as much as our biological kids. And I think people, and I get it, people who haven't adopted don't believe you can love them the same. And I will say, I remember we had adopted you and Noah first before we had biological kids, I remember me and mom having this discussion in the hospital once she was pregnant with Micah,
Emma 30:59
and
Ryan Langkilde 30:59
just thinking, Well, what if it is different? Because now we didn't know either.
Emma 31:03
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 31:03
you know, and everyone thinks it's so different. Micah was born, and it took about three seconds of you guys coming back into the room and being like, Oh no. Like, there is no difference in your heart. Did you feel that growing up like that, the kids were just the kids? I think you did, because people think you the favorite. But, uh, did you feel like a difference between the biological kids and the and the adopted kids?
Emma 31:33
No, no, which I'm so grateful for that I didn't. It was the same. Yeah, the same. It. There was never at all for even a moment a difference. I'm very thankful, but because I think a lot of people are even scared to adopt because they're scared they won't be able to give that child the same that they give their own. But when God works through you, and this is when you love your children and you accept that these are your children. I don't think there's a possibility 100% to ever think of them. Otherwise, I for a lot of of the time growing up, I forgot that I was a different color to you. I didn't even think about it, because, yeah, it was never something that we we were talk reashamed of. There was no segregation in the way you treated us or the way you looked at us, even we the same with the same that's what we always talked about, which I'm also thankful for, is how we would always talk about how you you have, we have a different mom, but you are still our parents, and you still love us just as much. I think that's so important, because that thought, if you don't talk about adoption, and the fact that there is a difference, I think that makes the difference to almost
Ryan Langkilde 33:02
like the elephant in the room.
Emma 33:03
Yes, become the elephant and
Ryan Langkilde 33:04
just shout out. I think this is a good shout out to my wife, who is just remarkable, not just a remarkable wife, but the best mom, like she really is. And I know mom, I mean, I had a few conversations, but mom's been very intentional,
Emma 33:17
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 33:18
about having those conversations openly
Emma 33:20
and
Ryan Langkilde 33:21
making sure you kids know you can talk about your biological mom or dad, but most of you didn't have a father figure, so I think that's what mom spoke about a lot, is that you can talk about her. It's okay to miss them. It's okay to have questions about
Emma 33:35
them.
Ryan Langkilde 33:36
They're not the enemy.
Emma 33:37
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 33:37
we not threatened. We hope you have a relationship with them. Yes, some of the cases, you know, legally, you can't, maybe with some of the kids, but we pray for the moms and the families and so I think, you know, we would always say that you grew in mom's heart and you grew in mom's tummy. Yes,
Emma 33:58
yes.
Ryan Langkilde 33:58
So just explain the difference. But I think you have to be very open about that and not feel threatened. And it's never a case of, oh, we don't want you to go to your biological family. If anything, I think we've been the ones pushing you and pushing your your other siblings to you. We want you to see them.
Emma 34:16
Yes,
Ryan Langkilde 34:17
we want you to have relationship with them so they're not like they're not a threat to us,
Emma 34:22
which I'm so thankful for. You guys even got me a book about adoption, yes, and though. And I remember mom reading it to me every night, and sometimes I would even ask her even to get to school. Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 34:37
school, yeah, and not just in your class
Emma 34:39
and
Ryan Langkilde 34:40
not just in your class and some of the other kids
Emma 34:42
as well. Yes, which is so it was so beautiful. And even the way mom talked to us about the differences, it was never like you're black and I'm white and so word it was, Look at the color of your skin. Is the color of our skin different? Yes. Do you know why? Because you have a different woman. But I install your mom and ask. Love you just as much. And you grew like I said, you grew in my heart. You grew in her tummy. And that's okay. And like you said, that was so important, because now I could go out in confidence. Because I think another thing is if, if it was taboo, and it became the elephant in the room, in this gray area, when people would ask me about it, I wouldn't be able to tell you about insurance. Yes, it's not something to be ashamed. No, it's a blessing that God has given me to put me in this family and give you guys to me as parents and bless you guys with me. So it's such a beautiful thing, and it's wrapped beautifully, and you've said it beautifully, that I can go out confidently and talk about it, which is then my friends knew I told everyone about it. We talk about it all the time, and the best thing I could say is it's okay. You can ask me any questions. I'm not scared and I'm not ashamed of it, and it's not going to hurt my feelings, because it's not supposed to hurt my feelings. What happened to me? Yes, it was sad, and there was some sad moments, but it's now a beautiful blessing and a blossom, and now I get to help and share to other people the things that have brought me to who I am today, and I'm very proud of who I am today, and I'm thankful for it. So it never should be something that's like,
Ryan Langkilde 36:18
yes,
Emma 36:19
it's something that should be talked about, and people shouldn't be scared to adopt because people don't talk about how it is, or they're scared of how to approach the situation.
Ryan Langkilde 36:31
So to those people watching who have thought about adopting but are scared to to adopt cross culturally because they think that child will mind. What do you want to say to those parents?
Emma 36:42
We don't mind. We do not mind. Sorry. We don't mind it. It's so much better for a child to be placed in a loving home than it is for them to be in a home that makes them fit in. They're still going to fit in in the home that they're placed in, despite the color of skin and despite the cultural differences, that shouldn't ever be a barrier, and I think that should be taken away completely, because how many kids are now not getting placed in homes because the people who want to adopt them have different color skin? Isn't it so much better that they get placed in a loving home and grow up with way more opportunities that they would have than be placed with someone who has the same color skin? It makes no difference in my life. Yeah. I mean, the difference is maybe that, okay, I don't speak African language. I can learn now. I'm learning now because I want to, but it's not fair to push that on them. There's
Ryan Langkilde 37:45
worse things. What I've found so funny is that critics against cross cultural adoption, I've often said to them, yes, maybe their child loses a part of their culture, but they also gained
Emma 37:58
a lot.
Ryan Langkilde 37:58
They gain a family, they gain security, they gain education, they gain health, they gain spirituality, they gain love. So like, why Trump culture over all the things that they can gain? And rather keep their kid in an orphanage or a children's center or on the street, because shame. You can't put them with someone of a different race, like, how does that Trump all the benefits to joining a loving family?
Emma 38:28
Yes, it's so sad to see that, but it's also, yeah, don't be scared. Don't be scared because, like, we had the language barrier. We overcame it. Yeah, I learned English, and we're okay now, and I speak lovely English, and
Ryan Langkilde 38:44
you speak so well,
Speaker 2 38:46
yes. Think
Ryan Langkilde 38:46
everyone would agree,
Emma 38:47
yes. So I would I would never change that. You guys are my parents. I would never change that. I would rather be with African or black parents that would have raised me Africa with African languages, just because I'm so happy where I am, and that shouldn't be a fear.
Ryan Langkilde 39:11
Yep,
Emma 39:11
there's so many greater things to come.
Ryan Langkilde 39:14
Absolutely, I think it's good to kind of just put it into that perspective. And I want to say that culture can also be learned. Like you were saying, culture can still be learned in your older age. I think you have explored some of your culture and the food, you've bought some of the outfits, and now around your wedding, it was actually important for us to find that out, and we learned along with you. But it's not like if, unless you learn those things in your childhood, you can never pick them up. I think you, you, you, you proud of aspects of your culture, and there's parts of your heritage that you love, yeah, and it's not like all written off now just because you had a white family,
Emma 39:51
yeah? It's not. Another thing is, it's also like you guys were open to that. It's not like you guys, no, now you can't learn this landing. True. You can't dress like that because we raised you a certain No, like we all open to the fact that this is like my culture, and this is how it would have been, or like this is now we all experiencing it together, which is so beautiful. I'm so glad that we got to do it together, much rather than if I had to do it by myself in a corner or something. So definitely another thing is to be open about those things, open about the differences, because it's okay and it's good, and to explore those things together as well is just so important. Because I feel supported. We feel supported. Brought us closer together, yeah, and it was just a good learning experience, even so.
Ryan Langkilde 40:41
And I think, I mean, it's the same as maybe now in my adulthood, I might want to go explore my Irish heritage.
Emma 40:46
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 40:47
I wasn't taught that in my house growing up, but I have an Irish heritage. I could go now, explore that now. So, like, culture isn't defined only in childhood, yeah. And so for the critics who say they're losing culture, actually they don't. This is something that they can very much explore when they're adults, and they might want to do that themselves.
Emma 41:04
Yeah, and it's never too late.
Ryan Langkilde 41:05
No, never too late. So in this journey of adoption, I mean, to add to the eyeballs, you're also a PK, therefore what people don't know is a pastor's kid. So that obviously put a few more eyeballs on you, because now you're a pastor's daughter. Obviously there's some expectation on that. I do find a hope in our church that that hasn't we've tried to minimize that as much as we can. But what was that experience like for you?
Emma 41:36
I think I put more of the pressure on myself because I just scared of how people are gonna look at me, because they knew I'm the pastor's daughter. I am thankful that you have minimized it so you don't put us on blast, which is lovely because there are still some people at church who don't know who I am. Thank
Ryan Langkilde 41:54
you. Love that
Emma 41:55
you have to meet me for me,
Speaker 3 41:57
yeah, but
Emma 41:57
a lot,
Ryan Langkilde 41:58
in fact, I tease Emma if she has a friend for a while and she hasn't yet told that friend that she'll even go to the church with a friend and still not tell the friend that I'm her dad. So she just enjoys sometimes, just being that anonymous, like not having that pressure,
Speaker 2 42:14
yes, yes, no, it is lovely, because sometimes people act weird.
Ryan Langkilde 42:18
No, I get it.
Emma 42:20
They act strange. They say strange things. Like I had someone asked me before they knew I was the pastor's child, I had invited them over because we are allowed to invite fit apps. I'd invited them over for a sleepover, and it was gonna be cool when mom had set up the pizza station. It's gonna be fun. So she had asked me, oh, like, you're the pastor's daughter. I'm like, yeah. She's like, okay, so when we come inside, do we have to take off our shoes and, like, do we create a lot?
Ryan Langkilde 42:49
I
Emma 42:49
was like, no, no, we don't do that. No, it's just normal. I don't know. What do you consider normal? What ever Yeah, that doesn't happen. So that's why I some, I sometimes riffing from telling people I'm the pastor's daughter, because they also act differently, yeah, and the whole conversation, and I love talking about God, but the whole conversation is, God, this, God, that, God, that, but I just always put on, yeah, it's totally put on. But I just want to know about you, like, I want to know you and the things you've been through, and that's okay, what you've been through is okay, yeah. And if you're Krishna, great. I'm so glad you've overcome it, and God's been there with you, you know. But it doesn't always have to be this whole conversation, yeah, yeah. Like, just talk to me like a normal person. So yeah, but I am thankful that we aren't so much in the limelight, so I have had the opportunity to just be chill.
Ryan Langkilde 43:47
Yeah,
Emma 43:47
I don't have to be a certain way. And you've also told me, because I had told you that, you know, with dancing, because I used to dance at church, I felt a bit of pressure with the way I am and at church, how I'm supposed to acting. You told me that it's okay, like you don't have to act a certain way and be perfect. You are still human. And even though you're my daughter, people need to know you're human. And that's, again, what they think about me doesn't actually define who I am, which
Ryan Langkilde 44:19
absolutely,
Emma 44:20
yeah, yo. That was something that really stays with me. With everything I do, in every situation I step into, that what they say and think about me does not define who I am, because I think it's so easy for it to Yeah, especially when you're in such situations or limelight, but yeah, you
Ryan Langkilde 44:37
can't give your identity away like that. People, they it's torture. It's torture when you when you do that. So then in that process of joining our family and being a PK, how did you discover Jesus for yourself?
Emma 44:55
I remember the day it was so it was so cool. So I. I You and mom would run agents, Agent 316, at church, and
Ryan Langkilde 45:05
it's like a Friday night junior youth ministry,
Emma 45:08
yes, and I was five, then in grade one, and I remember every, every youth night you guys just say, Okay, if you guys want to accept your heart into Jesus, like accept Jesus into your heart and you want him to be your Lord and Savior, this is the prayer we're gonna do. And if you feel like you're not ready, even though we were kids, it's very important that we make this decision for ourselves, which you guys stated, that even though your parents are Christian, you doesn't
Emma 45:37
make you
Emma 45:38
can't piggyback off your parents' Christianity. Yeah, you have to have a relationship with God for yourself. And I remember this one day because I had said the prayer, but, you know, I said the prayer because everyone was saying the prayer, but this one day I was sitting and I was saying the prayer, and it felt different. Like, sure, I was like, wow, I really do want to have this relationship with God, and I want Him as my Lord and Savior for myself. Like, this is decision I'm making by myself. And the prayer just felt different completely. And that that was the night I was like, Wow, I'm gonna follow God for myself. Yeah, and it was so exciting. I felt so on fire afterwards. I was like, I'm gonna do and I was so ready, so that that was the day I had officially accepted God as my Lord, as Savior for myself, and I became Christian, and he became my Savior, and I had salvation. It
Speaker 1 46:30
was beautiful that I will never forget that day.
Ryan Langkilde 46:33
And did that stick for you, or did you feel like there was struggle along the way about God's existence? You know, like a lot of people, go through a lot of struggle in their relationship with God, even if they gave their hearts to Jesus as a child,
Emma 46:48
I didn't ever feel like he didn't exist, but sometimes I wondered if he was working. You know, you don't always see it. So there was times where I was like, God, when? When are you gonna work now? When you're gonna change this? Or when can I get this? You know, like your requests don't feel hurt and but I would pass that. Hey, I told my flesh that God works in his timing, his divine timing, and that despite what I feel it's not exactly what God's going to do or like what God hasn't planned for me. So I think I overcame those thoughts. We had lots of talks about it, which I'm so thankful for. There was times I can come to you and I'm like, Dad, I have times that was hard to just read my Bible, just It's, uh, just feel so hard, or I fall asleep all the time. You're like, Okay, try this and maybe do this instead, or read from here, which really helped the journey as well. So I'm glad you were able to have me in that time, because I did struggle. Yes. So not that I doubted that there was a God, but there was times I struggled to pursue or persist my relationship with God at times where I just didn't want to read my Bible, I felt like it was hard, because everyone happened yes,
Ryan Langkilde 48:09
like everyone absolutely,
Emma 48:10
um, so, um, yeah, thank you for the tips that you gave me, because I still use them to today, like making quiet time a priority and when to make quiet times and wait to read when you feel like this and stuff. So yes, definitely. I think everyone does, yeah. And a lot of people think, because you're the pastor's child, you're just so perfect at reading the Bible. And you know, all theology, people have asked me, if you preach at home to practice before you go on stage. And I'm
Ryan Langkilde 48:38
like, they would not come to church. They're very advanced enough.
Emma 48:43
I really am glad you didn't do because I wouldn't want to come to church. So no, he prepares on his own, but it's I'm very much human. Yeah, I have those hard times with my relationship with God, like everyone does. I do struggle to read the Bible, but I get back on track, and I think it's important that you just persist, because I want that relationship. Yeah, I know you want it for me. And there, there was great times where you check up on me. Hey, how's your relationship with God? And have you been reading your Bible, which is important, yeah, as a parent, to do, because I think could have
Ryan Langkilde 49:18
no one Yeah,
Emma 49:19
yeah, if no one asked that, I know no one cares whether I'm reading the Bible or not, but it's important to us, yeah, so then, before you even asked, I know, like, I have that feeling, like, when was that I read my Bible? Or, like, When last did I have a quiet time, or When last did I really sit with God and have a conversation? You know. So those things are now built in me that I can practice. But as human as I am, I still struggle with that, but I want more in my relationship with God than I want to fail in it. I
Ryan Langkilde 49:53
love that. I don't think that struggle ever goes away. That is the fight we have with our flesh.
Emma 49:58
Yes,
Ryan Langkilde 49:59
it but the goal. Is to conquer that and to not let one or two bad days derail it. Just get back on the ship.
Emma 50:05
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 50:06
and read again and continue, because God's there, and he's like, he hasn't gone anywhere just from your lack of commitment. So you know, and I also grateful to see you developing a relationship with God, and you love the church. And I must say, You kids have always been really cool about coming to a church where I'm preaching like you've actually always been very encouraging. And I've always found that to be quite sweet, because I think it can't be actually easy listening to your parent on the stage week after week is like, ah, you know, no one really wants to hear their parents advice all the time, but you guys have been very gracious and accommodating. But when you look back, can you see that the adoption and those first three years and the trauma of like losing a family? Did it create some wounds in your life,
Emma 51:00
yes, a lot, a few, I think, more little things that you don't think of as like mood or trauma, affected me so going through life, it never occurred to me until certain situation popped up, like relationship situations. So I I I had a boyfriend, which you knew about, by the way, I didn't date secretly, and I'd
Ryan Langkilde 51:28
sometimes help but break up with a boyfriend.
Emma 51:31
Actually, yes, we'll talk about this just now, because there's something I want to talk about. But I didn't know. I didn't like when people touch me, I didn't, and I think that's just like from certain situations where maybe someone touched me in a way I didn't like, but I don't like it. I do not like if someone's gonna hug me or touch me, it actually, really bothers me. It actually makes me angry to us. He says, I remember once telling my dad I'm like, I really don't like when people just hug me, Why think they can just hug me like, you know, when you greet someone, you Oh them like, I hate it, and would actually make me angry, where I feel like I have to walk away, yeah, because I can't, like, have a conversation with him. I'm angry that you're touching. But I think that also just comes from certain situations that happened as a child,
Ryan Langkilde 52:24
yeah? And psychological trauma gives you textile issues, yeah, you know. So some people can't touch certain things,
Emma 52:30
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 52:31
so it can develop, actually, for any trauma, can develop into a textile issue, yeah, some people can't just they there's issue with touch. So I think that definitely developed a new
Emma 52:41
Yes, and even, like, holding hands, I still struggle to this day, sorry to my husband, he is so, so loving, but I like, I can only hold hands for maybe five minutes, and then I want you to let go. Yeah, because I feel trapped. It's weird. I feel like I can't leave if you're holding on to me. So I know that's a problem, and I've been working through it. I'm getting better. But he knows that if I say, like, on my hand, like, don't touch me, yeah, like, I'm that's enough affection for today. So that's something I think has that has affected me till today. And yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things that I've seen. Other things I think I just see along the way as second sentence come by. I have a big, big wound for rejection. Okay, I don't like even the idea of someone rejecting me.
Ryan Langkilde 53:39
Yeah,
Emma 53:39
so I know we've also talked about this, and you're, you're, you've helped me work through it. But it's even in the silliest little things that if someone says something, I'll pick up on it and I feel hurt, then I'll like, slow person back, yeah, like I don't, and then if I think even someone doesn't like me, I'm just gonna remove my,
Ryan Langkilde 54:03
you know, act on that thought, yes.
Emma 54:05
And then I'm gonna be like, Okay, well, I don't like you too because.
Ryan Langkilde 54:09
And then you, then you creating your own rejection,
Emma 54:11
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 54:11
so then you have no one and, but it's because you push them away. But now it's like, oh, because they rejected me,
Emma 54:16
yes. And it's like, but I don't, I want them to like me, like, he's like me, but like, why don't you? I mean, what must I fix so it easily becomes people pleasing, which is not good, but that is something you've given me tips on working on and healing that wound as well. So I think those are the biggest things that I've carried from childhood.
Ryan Langkilde 54:37
Have you found your relationship with Jesus helping in those wounds.
Emma 54:42
Yes, a lot, okay, a lot, a lot, because I now know that it's okay if someone doesn't like me, like God has created who I am me and he's happy with who I am, and I'm wonderfully and beautifully made. So even if someone it's okay, someone else will like me and I. Someone else won't, someone will like, the way I act, someone won't, someone will like, wear, just someone want, and that's okay. So, like, I've learned that okay, but this is who God made me to be, and whether you like it or not doesn't determine how I'm going to be. Like. It doesn't determine the next steps in the future. It doesn't crumble my world now because one person doesn't like me. God loves me, yeah? Like, God's my friend anyways. So it's like,
Ryan Langkilde 55:27
I love that, and that is a best way to live my growth, like, just to be that the only opinion that matters is God's if he's for this, then I'm cool with it, yes. And if he's not for this, I want to change Yes, but whether you are cool with it or not? Well, that's actually your problem. Yeah, that's not really my issue, you know. So just to have your your confidence rooted in that, I think it's the only way to really attack that rejection monster, because then I can love you even if I'm getting nothing from
Emma 55:55
you. Yes, yes. Because it's a lot harder to love someone when you get nothing from them, like they it's, it's like filling a cup that never falls.
Ryan Langkilde 56:06
Yeah,
Emma 56:07
I'm viewing, well, I'm trying. So it's, it's good to know that. But I also just wanted to ask you, like, how, what views did you have for our relationship? Like, having a relationship with me, the things you were scared of for me as your daughter, and the differences that you thought you might see,
Ryan Langkilde 56:29
I think I was scared to have a grown up. So it was, it was quite weird, because you came in as this little girl and but we it was meant to be temporary in the beginning, we saw that was supposed to safety, and then we just fell in love with you. So Dom and I were talking about, like, maybe we can make this happen and tell them we're interested in long term placement. But I just remember thinking it will be so weird to have an adult African daughter, like, as a girl, I could see it, but I couldn't imagine, like I thought it would be like an issue for you to have a to be an african adult
Emma 57:07
woman
Ryan Langkilde 57:08
with a white dad. So that, for me, was kind of a fear. Is that, how this dynamic work? I mean, and now I love I can't imagine it any other way, and it was a totally unnecessary fear. But maybe I hadn't seen enough. I hadn't seen adult African women with white fathers,
Emma 57:28
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 57:29
so I could picture it as a kid you there was fine, but I was worried about the future, like, Will you be okay with this? And Will Will it be weird? And then, like any parent, I had to adjust to Mom, just this woman that you love, and you have all her attention now she's loving someone else, you know, and in the beginning, and I didn't know if it was from what was happening, but you were very scared of Me, and for the first few weeks or months, we couldn't bond like there was no bonding. So so I had to, I think every single new parent has to adjust to and I think mom had to also, just because my attention can be for her the whole time. So there's this adjustment of realizing that the marriage has changed and we got to keep our spouses as number one, so you got to fight for that now, because that's not going to happen easily and then, but allow your spouse to love someone else deeply. And there's only mom actually had to go out to someplace, and she left us alone. And then I started putting on a counter, and you started jumping into my arms, and then I started swinging you, which was a fair it was kind of a breakthrough for us, because you wouldn't let me do that kind of stuff. But it's almost was a trust exercise. And we played like that for like an hour, and from that moment on, it was like we clicked, and you started to let me in, and we I felt like we've always been close, like we've had that close relationship. But it wasn't like that on day one, you know, and you have to almost get over the fear of, I think it's weird, because on day one, you can't love this person like a child yet,
Emma 59:20
yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 59:20
and I've had to say this to other people who have adopted it's okay that you don't feel it on day one,
Emma 59:25
yeah.
Ryan Langkilde 59:26
But I promise you, once this child is yours, like and you realize it's my child for life, that love, that parental love, grows to the very same depth. Remember also a kid that comes out of womb? You also don't know them. That's true.
Emma 59:43
Hey, baby, how
Emma 59:45
are you?
Ryan Langkilde 59:46
So every child that comes into your life, you got to grow to love,
Emma 59:50
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 59:50
and there isn't that difference. So yeah, we only started to worry about, oh, will there be a difference when we fall pregnant?
Emma 59:58
Yeah.
Ryan Langkilde 59:59
But those. Fears. I'm so I so love that actually, none of those fears were even worth having, because none of them came came true, you know. So I think it's good for people to know this, yeah, that they might be thinking it would be so sad to rob children of an opportunity of a loving family, because you have fears that actually aren't even true, yeah, but they don't have any power. You know,
Emma 1:00:27
what are some similarities personality wise? Do they or personality traits? Do you think are better for me? Because I think some people aren't really sure that their adopted child will at all be like them, but I think they are a lot of similarities one of a sudden that,
Ryan Langkilde 1:00:45
oh my word no. I mean, we're so alike that it's Erica's mom, yeah, because in some ways, she's had to live with two of us like so, I mean, we're not alike in every way, but there's certainly, you've definitely been shaped by me and mom. So there's things in you I can see from mom, especially now, watching you be a mom yourself. I mean, mom is such a good mother,
Emma 1:01:06
and
Ryan Langkilde 1:01:07
it's been amazing to me how much you've absorbed because you're a great mom, you know, and just the way you've looked after Michael. I mean, I remember when you fell pregnant, I My first thought was, like, she can barely clean her own room, like a horse should be a mom, because our biggest fights in our house was just around you, keeping your room clean, probably like every parent. And I was like, how will this woman be? Mom is out that you've just taken all these great traits from mom? I think also, I mean, we have very similar personalities in terms of, like, excellence and doing things right, and striving for things and and I think we've even had similar rejection wounds. So the same wounds I've had to work through, because I also grew up with a lot of rejection, although yours was far worse, but I think I responded the same way because so I think in those ways, we've been very similar how we've the wound we've had, and how we've responded to those wounds. However, we need to see get healing from those wounds. So when you are living with people now, your parents, and they're taking your primary caregivers, you absolutely take on, I think they're good and they're bad?
Emma 1:02:22
Yes, no, definitely. I've also seen a lot of people say, Oh, but you sound like your dad when I'm saying something or like, which I'm grateful for, because you've given me some really great advice that I've been able to share. So that's that's been fun. I always think like in certain situations where I feel confused or lost or something like, okay, but well, what would my dad say? Okay, and it gets me, gets me to do a lot.
Ryan Langkilde 1:02:49
So cool,
Emma 1:02:50
yeah, yeah. So I'm so grateful for that and, and
Ryan Langkilde 1:02:53
it's a fine line I'll say to all the pastor dads, because you don't want to be a pastor at
Emma 1:02:56
home,
Emma 1:02:57
yes?
Ryan Langkilde 1:02:58
So you try. You're trying to, like, I never want to preach. You know, you so you trying to keep calm and not jump into a sermon, which we are prone to do, so and not even sound like a counselor, but just try stay in the dead zone.
Emma 1:03:15
Yes,
Ryan Langkilde 1:03:15
I've tried to be very conscious of that, because I think if you guys feel like he's just preaching to us. That's very off putting.
Emma 1:03:23
Yeah, and
Ryan Langkilde 1:03:24
I know that because I was also pastor's kid for a little while, for the first six years of my life. So yeah, it's, it's important to, if the council is going to be received, you've got to be giving it as dad, yes, and not as pastor. Well, I mean, did you feel that there were moments where I was just preaching? I was just
Emma 1:03:43
preaching? No, no, I didn't even if I watch you preach, actually, it just, it's amazing to watch you. I don't know. I think some people like but isn't it weird to watch your dad? I'm like, No, it doesn't bother me. Like, I enjoy that my dad gets to teach me the things about like, I'm, I'm thankful for that. It's, it's great, because then I know I can come to for both sides. You know, you can put me right biblically, and just from a father, father perspective. And I mean, even, like you said when I you helped me break up with those
Speaker 3 1:04:18
with a lot of boyfriends. Oh, it was, it's so don't
Ryan Langkilde 1:04:21
say a lot like that,
Ryan Langkilde 1:04:22
okay, not a lot. But like, You've helped me reject, oh yeah,
Emma 1:04:26
because they've been
Ryan Langkilde 1:04:28
boys that have interested, and you've come to me and said, I really don't want this. Like, how do I do this? Yeah,
Emma 1:04:34
and I'm thankful that I could come to you and say that. I mean, yeah, we have such a close relationship that I could come to you and I'm like, Dad, I really don't like this guy. And how do I say it? And like, well, you know, you didn't say, Oh, this guy's talking to you like this. How? What did you say to him that they don't feel like this and it's your fault, you know, you're just like, okay, cool. Like, let me help you. And what's the situation? I can come and talk to you about those things, which I'm glad we were able. To have that closeness. Not everyone has that closeness with their parents. Yeah, so with being my dad and my being able to being that close to you, it's I'm thankful that I could come to you.
Ryan Langkilde 1:05:12
I've, I've always been so grateful for that too, because, you know, Mom and I have had that point of view is like, we don't want you to have to hide anything from us. We knew that if we just banned everything in your life and you can't do the can't do this, you would still do it. You'd just do it in secret. So we've tried to not have that and just rather try give you advice for what you want to do and how you want to do it, and and hopefully that you can be open enough to come to us with anything and you know that you'll be loved. I think that was shown and tested two years ago when you came to us with some very big news that rocked our world a little bit, where we found out that you were pregnant from your then boyfriend. You weren't married yet, so that was obviously not anyone's plan, and it wasn't even yours and moose's plan. What was it like for you because now you needing to break that news. What was your biggest fear then?
Emma 1:06:17
My biggest fear was that you disowned me. I know that sounds crazy, because that's like something you would never do. I know that, but I was just so scared that I'm going to lose you guys, that you won't want to see me again, or you crazy. I know it's such an irrational fear, but I was very scared that, oh my gosh, I messed up so bad, my parents are not gonna want me anymore. Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:06:46
I mean, I think that's a very normal fear. Think anyone I know you, I remember you took us to rock a momma's a very public place. You said you wanted to take us out for supper, and then moose's parents were there,
Emma 1:06:59
and
Ryan Langkilde 1:07:00
then was probably wise to do it in a public place, because that night, obviously I was furious and mom, but I thought, you know, I might have done so. I'm not a violent
Emma 1:07:13
guy. I know you're not, but I knew I was like, I'm not doing the same. There's too many possibilities.
Ryan Langkilde 1:07:23
It's the first time in a long time I envisioned myself, like putting hands on someone that I could actually just imagine us saying, I could just launch over and then strangle him like, so like, in that moment, your emotions are so
Emma 1:07:37
they are,
Ryan Langkilde 1:07:38
like, all over the place. And took me, like, about half an hour to actually believe you guys, because my other really thought you were pranking
Speaker 3 1:07:45
us. Yeah, I that that made it harder.
Ryan Langkilde 1:07:47
Yeah,
Emma 1:07:47
that was, I was my, oh my gosh. It's just, I'm
Ryan Langkilde 1:07:51
like, how we have to say something. It was
Speaker 3 1:07:54
hard to and then eventually
Ryan Langkilde 1:07:55
I was getting irritated. Like, guys, stop it now. Like, just tell us prank
Emma 1:07:59
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:08:00
it took a little while for those pennies to drop. It was like, Oh, this is happening,
Emma 1:08:03
yeah. I also remember mom's face like,
Ryan Langkilde 1:08:07
but
Emma 1:08:08
those can't be
Ryan Langkilde 1:08:10
Yeah,
Emma 1:08:12
oh, my girl. So I think that also was like a moment where it's like, okay, but as this, this daughter. My daughter is now, like, sort of taken away into a situation, you know, she's not just my little girl anymore. Yeah, I think that was, like, a big moment where it's like, but Whoa,
Ryan Langkilde 1:08:35
yeah,
Emma 1:08:35
like, where's my little girl? Where's my daughter? And it's now like,
Ryan Langkilde 1:08:40
and like we realized
Emma 1:08:41
now
Ryan Langkilde 1:08:42
you've been exposed to more life than we realized. You know, we've we thought you were completely innocent at that point. So it was like, I think for me, and I think any parent that's maybe had that news given to them unexpectedly, is that I was just sad, because it felt like all our plans, which we didn't really have the right fit, all our plans and ideas for your life, were suddenly gone, you know, because you really do think the worst thing at that moment, like, Okay, well now you've got no future. You know, you're just gonna have a child at such a new only 20. And just like it it feels devastating at that moment. But one thing I just was so proud of with you and Musa is that I couldn't believe how and I was proud of this that you guys didn't like just hide in shame, if that was me, I think I was a pastor's kid and we'd had, like, a moral failing. I might have just gone into hiding, you know, because in the old days, that's what you did,
Emma 1:09:49
yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:09:49
why is this loved? You guys came to church. You still went to young adults meetings, you still went to your circle group. You went heavily pregnant
Emma 1:09:59
and.
Ryan Langkilde 1:10:00
And it was a real testament, I think, to also to our church, that they just loved you. Did you guys feel very judged or like, what was it behind the scenes? How was it feeling for you?
Emma 1:10:12
Here and there? Yes, but I think ultimately it was like, Well, I was human. I fell. And I'm not gonna let that, like, change everything, like, I'm not gonna hide now, and I'm not I'm not gonna run away from my I fell. I'm in sin. I'm gonna go to God, and you're gonna see me go to God, and I'm gonna go back, and she's going to work through me still, even though that happened. So there was, there was Twitter chatter here, and I definitely did feel like I didn't. I did feel like running away, but I didn't.
Ryan Langkilde 1:10:55
Yeah, I'm so glad you said, because our sin can't define us, yeah, and we are not our worst mistake, that's not who we are, you know. And it felt like you weren't making that your identity like that wasn't who you are, you know. And you just you fell. And what I felt I saw the fingers sorry for you guys after I've got over my issues or my anger and all that stuff, because there was a period I was very angry, but seeing how you guys handled it also helped me, because then I started feeling sorry. I was like, It's so unfair that every couple sinned. You know, I'm not saying every couple since actually, although I will say probably most do. But now your sin is so public,
Emma 1:11:34
yes, and
Ryan Langkilde 1:11:34
it's like you have to wear this, wear this, and almost on your stomach. It's like you can't be hidden right there, and everyone else who's lying and cheating and watching porn and doing drugs and smoking private and getting drunk, yeah, they don't have to wear it,
Emma 1:11:47
yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:11:47
you know. So it's like, such a difficult thing, I think, to navigate. And I really think you guys did it the best way you could have. And you're like, This is not who we are, yeah, and we sin, and sin is the same, and my son is not greater than your son, and that's what we have the cross for. That's what we have forgiveness for. And And now, I mean, I look back at my grandson, Macau, I just can't imagine life without him.
Emma 1:12:13
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:12:13
I'm so grateful he's here, and he's been such a blessing to our life, and I think to your life as well.
Emma 1:12:19
Yes, definitely. I also think that it's so easy when you send to sit in guilt and feel sorry for yourself as well. I think that's something I didn't want to do, because at the end of the day, that was my fault. Yeah, like, that's my I did that no one, no one forced me. That's the sin I made, that's the decision I made. So now I must answer with that. I can't just feel sorry for myself. That doesn't change where I am. Now, I think that's something that also just really that I was telling myself, but at the end of the day, I must live with my decisions now, and I still want to live for God, and I still want God to make this for the better, but I can't sit in guilt and shame for the rest of my life. But
Ryan Langkilde 1:13:08
yeah,
Emma 1:13:08
it doesn't rewind anything and doesn't change anything. So yeah, it was definitely hard for all of us to adjust, and there were some very hard cured so we had to go through in the beginning, but at the end of the day, we did work through it, and I'm so glad that I still had your guys' support at the end of the day. I think it would have been a lot harder. I plotted so many things in my mind.
Ryan Langkilde 1:13:31
Worst case scenario,
Emma 1:13:32
what happens next? If this happens? Yeah, so there was definitely a big change to all our relationships, yeah, that we had to adjust to, but,
Ryan Langkilde 1:13:45
but not for a second did our love change?
Emma 1:13:47
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:13:48
like it that wasn't even on the table like you. You were as much our daughter before and after that news and we cannot love you. You know
Ryan Langkilde 1:13:57
you're
Ryan Langkilde 1:13:57
just you're our daughter. So
Emma 1:13:59
I also remember mom telling me about the central like a lot of people suddenly don't see, but yours is just to the face, but now you can't, you can't live like guilty, and it's okay, so I'll, like, mom still pick me up. I know when I was on the ground too, which I'm so thankful for, because that was very hard for everyone, and not just for me. I think it's so easy to make this like about yourself as well this, but this affects me too, you know, but it affected everyone, yeah, and now we have to adjust so easy not to Yeah, to pretend it didn't happen, but you can't, because not this. I mean, the cows here now in actual life, can't just push him aside. So yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:14:47
and you guys had a beautiful wedding, and
Emma 1:14:49
yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:14:49
to then eventually move in together, live as a family.
Emma 1:14:54
Yeah.
Ryan Langkilde 1:14:54
And you know God, God is a way of taking even those mess ups and just creating something. Beautiful,
Emma 1:15:00
yeah, but also, like, another thing that I'm still glad you guys stood on what is right and wrong, like we didn't just move in together suddenly now, because we're gonna have a baby that was model out, and I'm thankful for that, that I can see myself, we can visit, but we weren't allowed to stay together before marriage, that when we wanted to get married, that was also our choice too. It wasn't like you have to get married now because you made this decision is the right thing to do, even though it was backwards. But that was also a decision we made that that's something we also wanted more. Yeah? Co host us, quick, quick, quick and hide it.
Ryan Langkilde 1:15:38
Yeah? Hush. Hush scandal.
Emma 1:15:40
Yeah. There was nothing like that that was we lived with the decision move forward and then worked back to what God said. So I'm thankful for that.
Ryan Langkilde 1:15:49
Now that you're a mom and you have your own family. Has it given a different perspective on your childhood, your biological mom or your adopted mom and your feelings towards your children, like, how have you worked through that?
Emma 1:16:08
I came to realization that this is everybody's first time. No matter how many kids you have, it's your first time with that child.
Ryan Langkilde 1:16:17
Yeah,
Emma 1:16:17
it's your first time being an adult. It's your first time doing this, doing this, like, everything you do, it's your first time. And so I think I came to that realization that, whoa, like, as long as you've been parents, if you have another child, it's your first
Emma 1:16:32
time.
Emma 1:16:32
Like, it's gonna be different. There's no, like, handbook or formula that's just perfect,
Ryan Langkilde 1:16:36
yeah.
Emma 1:16:37
And so, like, even now with me being an adult. It's your first time. And when Noah and Micah and all of them adults, it's your first time having them as adults. So I think that that in my mind, I'm more gracious towards parents, because I think it's so easy to be angry at your parents, like, but your parents or why didn't you so now, like, when I look at my mom, I'm like, but it was her first time, despite the some terrible decisions that she made, well, and I won't understand exactly what she did, it was her first time and and
Ryan Langkilde 1:17:12
you don't know what she's gone through, yeah, yeah,
Emma 1:17:14
it's her first time. So I think when I look at just parents in general, I'm like, You're doing your best for your first time, and you you're making the decisions you think is right. Like, sometimes so easy for the outside or as children to like, Japan, how can you make such a decision? It's their first time.
Ryan Langkilde 1:17:32
Yeah,
Emma 1:17:34
they're trying their best. Like, now I have that perspective where I don't think I had seen that before. I was just like,
Speaker 4 1:17:42
but
Emma 1:17:43
you know, like,
Ryan Langkilde 1:17:45
well, I love that, because I just think that puts tons of grace in that relationship, and maybe helps you see it through God's eyes. Yeah, more than anything else. And has being adopted taught you anything about God and salvation?
Emma 1:18:00
Yeah, so being adopted and salvation is kind of similar, because when you accept God as your Lord and Savior, you are adopted into a new family. And so I think now it's also like easier to see how I'm part of this new family, because of the love that God has for me, and the love you've shown me has been so unconditional that when you become a Christian, they really are just your brothers and sisters, and everyone becomes this close knit family, which is beautiful, and so everyone just needs to have this perspective of when, when they're having salvation, because you can't do it alone. And I'm so glad I didn't have to do it alone, because I got you guys that God always has a plan. And when you get to the point where you're like, Okay, I want God as my Lord and Savior, and you become a part of this new family, they really are there to be your family like she you. You don't have to be perfect. They're there for the matters as well. Because I think it's so easy as a Christian to try and be perfect, even around other Christians. And then you go to church and look proper and clean yourself up. But we're there for the mess as well. Yeah, you were there for all my messes and my trauma, and you helped me work through it till today. And so as Christians, we're there to help you work through all that stuff just the same.
Ryan Langkilde 1:19:19
Yeah,
Emma 1:19:19
and God is your Father just the same. He's taking you in just the same. So it's, I'll
Ryan Langkilde 1:19:24
say, I mean, adoption has taught me about salvation. You know, I've realized that we're not taking class children, that being adopted you'll love fully, because I love my adopted kids fully. So I know God can do it, because I've done it and so, and he's perfect. So it just makes me know, like, wow, I'm really loved as a full son.
Emma 1:19:47
You
Ryan Langkilde 1:19:48
know, because the Bible does describe our salvation as an adoption, and it's a spirit of adoption that we receive, that now we cry out ever which is Daddy. It's this invitation. Into a real family, that that's what our salvation is. So it's made me much more confident in my identity as Son of God, because that's literally, I can't see you anything else as my daughter.
Emma 1:20:12
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:20:12
like, it's complete. That's who you are to me, I can't, so God doesn't see me in any other way, no matter how much I mess up, no matter what I do, I'm his son,
Emma 1:20:22
yes,
Ryan Langkilde 1:20:22
and his affection towards me is as a father, you know. So even me being on the other side of adoption, it's, it's really taught me about God's heart. And I keep reminding myself, like, if, if I'm feeling like this, and I'm such a flawed human being, how much more God like, how much he just has such a deep he's got a real deep love for me, because I'm his boy, you know, I'm his son.
Emma 1:20:45
So
Ryan Langkilde 1:20:46
it's been a beautiful to God's told me so much about him just being a father myself, you know.
Emma 1:20:52
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:20:54
thanks so much for just your openness and your willingness to go and chat about even difficult things, and for for being open about your journey and your experience, and maybe to any families who are who are thinking about adoption, I think we really need more families who are willing to adopt, yes, especially in our country. Right now, in South Africa, there's a bit of an orphan crisis, you know, but, but in African as a whole, there's just millions of orphans. We've got more orphans on our continent than there are people in New York, so, and, and the answer is going to be with Christians. It's going to be with the church, because we've been told to look after the orphans and widows, not the government.
Emma 1:21:47
Yeah,
Ryan Langkilde 1:21:47
like, this is a instruction to Christians. James tells us that this is actually true religion, to look after the orphans and widows. So what would you say to anyone who's kind of on the brink and who's thinking about adopting. What message can you say to those men and women,
Emma 1:22:05
don't let your irrational fears stop you. Courage is doing things despite the fear. So even if you're scared, do it anyways, because the outcome is so much more worth it and so much better than any fear could ever stop you from doing so when you have the resources and you have the time and you have the place and go for it, don't question God's plan, because it's still part of God's plan, and you are able to love them just as great as you love any other person in Your Life. So definitely do it despite the fear and have courage, because the outcome is so much greater, and I can attest to that, and I'm so thankful and so blessed. So as a Christian, it's not just your job to accept the blessings, but pull those blessings on to others. So please bless those kids who need those blessings. Those blessings are not just for you, but bless others with them.
Ryan Langkilde 1:23:01
Absolutely. Can. Can we pray? Would you mind praying over the families who have adopted kids, and just for wisdom for those parents and for those who are thinking about
Emma 1:23:12
Yes, of course, let's pray, Father God, we come before you now, Lord for everything that we've spoken about, Lord, Father God, we just pray for those families who have adopted kids. Father God, may you just guide them with wisdom and strength during this time Holy Spirit. May you just be amongst them this answering any questions that they might have or where they feel they're doing wrong. May you just step into the gap. Father God, thank You, Lord for the work that you're doing in the people's lives who feel the urge to adopt kids but are not yet ready to take that step. Father God, may just guide them through the process, give them courage where there is fear. Father God, we Trump that fear. Father God, in the name of Jesus. Father God, I pray the blood of Jesus over each and every one of these people. Lord that are listening and feel these urges or have families like this. Father God, thank you for the work that you are doing in their lives and the testimonies that are coming from this as well, Lord, thank You for the strengthening of your kingdom that you are doing through these people and I practice in the mighty name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Ryan Langkilde 1:24:08
Amen. Thanks, my girl, thanks for joining your old man and having a chat with me. Thank you guys for watching. If this has blessed you, please consider subscribing or following along on the platform. You you're watching this on it sincerely does help. Just get this podcast out to those who need it, and maybe you have someone in mind that you can share it with. I hope you continue to join us. We're going to, I'm definitely going to carry on having these very real conversations with real people about a real God, and hopefully it brings about real change. So thanks for your ears and your attention. May God bless you. Goodbye.
Emma 1:24:44
You.