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The Pilot the Pilot podcast welcomes Cheese Pilot, an aviation enthusiast and simulator instructor, who shares his unique journey into aviation and the challenges he has faced along the way. The conversation dives into Cheese Pilot's early fascination with flying, sparked by a memorable air show event during his childhood. Despite the initial setback of financial barriers that deterred him from pursuing a pilot's license, Cheese Pilot's path took a dramatic turn when he enlisted in the Army. After serving, a serendipitous discovery of using his GI Bill for flight training led him to a successful career in aviation. However, his journey is not without challenges. The discussion highlights the complexities and frustrations of navigating the FAA’s medical certification process, particularly regarding mental health evaluations, which have affected his ability to work as a pilot. Cheese Pilot emphasizes the importance of mental health in aviation and advocates for a more supportive system that prioritizes pilots’ well-being, reflecting on how lack of understanding can lead to significant career disruptions.
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Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
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sporties.com sxmoffer that's sportys.com
sxmoffer hey, it's a cheese pilot.
I'm a simulator instructor,
but also in my free time I try to
generate content and do, you
know, mock checkrides for any students
that are trying to make that
they're prepped for their check rides.
AV Nation welcome back to the
Pilot the Pilot podcast.
My name is Justin Seams and I
am your host.
Today's episode is with
Adrian, but everyone should know
him as Cheese Pilot.
And it took me a couple
minutes to kind of compose myself
to say Cheese Pilot.
Welcome to the podcast.
But it was a great conversation.
You know, it took a turn that
I wasn't expecting.
I, I didn't know what he was
dealing with personally and what
he's going through with the
FAA and, and getting his medical
back.
So we, we have a good long
discussion and I'm not one that's
qualified to make any
decisions or to talk about the current
status of, of the FAA and how
they handle the situation that he's
going through.
But I think it's a topic of
conversation that needs to be brought
up.
Having these conversations is
very important and I think it's something
that we need to continue to do.
So listen to this please and
let me know what you think.
If you want to keep following
along and you want to see how his
fight is going to get his
medical back, you can follow Cheese
Pile on Instagram, train with
cheese.com as well and support his
channel and what he is doing.
If you don't know who Cheese
Pilot is, follow him at Cheese Pile
on Instagram.
He does mock orals, he does
some training, he does some other
stuff.
So it's really cool info to see.
And just learning about his
path to where he is today and how
he even got to becoming a
pilot was pretty interesting.
So I think everyone should
enjoy this podcast.
And without any further ado,
here's Cheese Pilot.
Cheese Pilot.
What's going on, man?
Welcome to the Pilot the Pilot podcast.
How's it going?
Good, man.
You know, we were just
laughing about saying Cheese Pilot
versus your actual name, which
you said your name was Adrian.
But you know, we're keeping an
ig, we're keeping it social media
so everyone can, like you said
earlier, know who I'm talking to
because everyone knows you as
Cheese Pilot.
Yeah, the.
The name definitely stuck.
I know.
I picked it back when I was at
Air Wisconsin and, you know, the
name kind of made sense when I
was at Air Wisconsin.
Now I just happen to be a
pilot in Wisconsin.
That makes a lot of sense now.
So the chi.
I thought it was like Swiss
cheese bottle, you know, falling
through the cracks and I was just.
You love cheese and you live
in Wisconsin, huh?
Yeah, that.
That was.
That was really it.
And I love that you bring up
the Swiss cheese model because the
FAA has actually like dropped
that out of their aeronautical decision
making.
They said it was too simple.
Yeah.
Oh, so let's make it more difficult.
Yeah.
Is that.
Well, pretty much the idea
from what I've heard, the reason
they kind of got rid of the
Swiss cheese model was that people
could make excuses like, oh, I
did this tiny little thing to try
and block this, but now
they're changed it to the threat
and error management model,
which, don't get me wrong, it's extremely
complicated, but once you
understand it, you're like, oh, okay,
so these are the things that
are already in place.
And either way, yeah, when I
was doing my training, they had the
threat and error management
model, but they also seem to include
the Swiss cheese model in that.
It's like one of the parts of
the threat and error management.
So it's still there, I feel
like, but it's just not the sole
reasoning that they fall back on.
Yep, cool.
Interesting.
Well, we never know what the
FAA does for.
For why they do it.
But hey, if you're listening
to this faa, we love you.
Don't do anything to me or
cheese pilot.
You're the best.
Don't do anything more.
Yeah, don't hurt me, please.
Anyways, we're not here to
talk about the faa.
We're not here to talk about
solely the Swiss cheese model.
We're here to talk about you.
We're here to talk about your
aviation journey.
So we'll go ahead and kick it off.
Why were you interested.
Interested in aviation at all?
You know, as far back as I can
remember, I remember I was going
to some air show with the Boy
Scouts when I was like, I don't know,
six or so, and some biplane
did, you know, some upside down blowing
smoke pass over the line of
cars trying to get in to the parking
lot for the air show.
And once I saw that, I was
like, I want to.
I want to do those things.
And then living with my
grandma in the backyard of her house,
they.
It was right in the departure
path from Salt Lake City.
And, you know, I hate being
this old, but I'm old enough that
when airplanes took off, even
if you didn't live right in the departure
path, if you lived, you know,
a couple miles away from the airport,
you could still hear them.
So, you know, I remember
hearing Those loud like, MD 80s and
whatnot back when those things
were still in operation and running
out into the backyard so I
could watch airplanes take off.
But, you know, when I was a
teenager and I went to my parents
saying, you know, hey, I want
to be a pilot, they pretty much laughed
at me saying, yeah, we ain't
got that kind of money.
Good luck, kid.
Yeah, yeah, good luck.
No, go find something else.
So, yeah, I mean, that's
really why I wanted to be a pilot.
Just because I.
That one little air show event
and then running into the backyard
looking at airplanes.
You know, I always wanted to
do it from then.
Yeah, well, how did you go
from the kid that's looking up at
the planes that has parents
that are like, you know, maybe we
can't afford this to actually
becoming a pilot.
So if I'm going to be frank
about it, I had pretty much given
up at that point when my
parents were like, yeah, we're poor,
we're not.
That's not happening.
So I.
I went to go learn how to be a mechanic.
I was actually building race cars.
You know, I built A couple
Beetles that could do less than 10
seconds down the quarter mile,
believe it or not.
And what ended up happening is
2008, recession happened and nobody's
buying race cars anymore.
So I was kind of out of a job
and I said, screw it, I'll go join
the Army.
You know, my mom was in the
army, my, all of my stepdads were
in the army.
So I'm like, ah, it's always
my, you know, screw it, let's go
be a stripper move.
Really, it was, it was, it was
kind of like a last ditch effort,
like, hey, I, you know, I need
to do something to keep the bills
paid.
So I went and did that, went
to Afghanistan, came back without
a scratch on me, you know, not
for their lack of trying, and then
tore my acl and they pretty
much told me, well, you can't be
infantry anymore, so bye Felicia.
So I ended up leaving the, the
army because you know, again, tear
your ACL, you can't really do
12 mile, 14 mile ruck marches with
an 80 pound backpack anymore.
So I was looking around for
know something, anything to do.
I, you know, when I was in
Afghanistan, my brother sold all
my mechanic tools for meth.
So I couldn't, I couldn't go
back to turning wrenches.
So I, I ended up working at
Geek Squad for a while until I dropped
somebody off for, I think it
was a Frontier flight was what they
were getting on.
So, you know, anybody who
doesn't know Frontier sometimes flies
out of some strange airports,
not necessarily like the O'Hares,
the Atlanta and stuff like that.
So I saw a sign that said use
your GI Bill here to become a pilot.
And I'm like, that's, that's
an option.
I did, I didn't even realize
that you could use your GI Bill to
become a pilot.
And for those of you who don't
know that aren't, you know, veteran
affiliated, military
affiliated, GI Bill is pretty much
a benefit that, you know,
service members get that pays for
36 months of school.
You get like a little housing
stipend, but it pretty much pays
for you to go get a bachelor's
degree after you get out.
So I was sitting on my GI Bill
going, what do I do with this thing?
It's a lot of money that's
going to pay for whatever education
I decide that I want to go for.
And then I find out that
money's not a barrier to entry for
being a pilot anymore.
So I believe it or not, was
looking at a couple different schools
at that point.
I realized that that flight
school that I saw that sign at, I
don't even remember the name
of it, but it was a part 61 school.
And if you use your GI bill
for a part 61 school, they pay like
20 grand a year.
And for anybody who's gone
through flight training knows that
20 grand a year is not going
to get you to a professional pilot
level.
Not at all.
Not at all.
With how long it took me to
get private pilot, it would have
pretty much taken my entire GI
bill to go part 61.
So I started looking at other
flight schools and I was settled
on University of North Dakota initially.
And not being in aviation, not
not having friends or family in aviation.
I didn't know anything about
the University of North Dakota.
I didn't know that it was one
of the most renowned flight schools
in the world, let alone the country.
So, you know, I was looking at
it, trying to do research, trying
to dig into it, until I found
a website that.
The website's been taken down
since now, but I found a website
that called undsucks.com and
it was a bunch of reviews about how
bad their flight training
program is and how much it's going
to cost you and how you're not
going to make it through.
You're going to end up using,
you know, all your resources.
So I thought me, as a fresh
student pilot that doesn't know anything
about aviation, if someone's
willing to pay to keep a website
up that calls called
undsucks.com, it must suck.
Critical thinking right there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm like, given all the
available resources I have, if someone's
willing to spend the money
that it takes to keep this website
up, there must be some
validity to it as opposed to it just
being somebody that was salty
that didn't make it through private
pilot.
So I went to Arizona State
University for two reasons, really.
Because they had a big flight
training program.
It had a bachelor's degree.
They were taking the GI Bill.
But also at that time,
apparently the VA was cutting them
blank checks for their flight training.
There were people that were
graduating ASU's program with 1500
hours.
Like they never even had to go
instruct because the VA was cutting
a blank check and veterans
were able to just rent the plane
and go fly.
I show up and three days
before the semester starts, they
call all the veterans in and
tell us that the VA isn't paying
them anymore because they're
tired of how much it's costing.
They want us to meet.
Believe it or not, und's Model.
No way.
Yes, because they.
Apparently there was a flight
school up in Southern Utah that did
private pilot for helicopter
in a turbine helicopter.
Oh, dang.
That was so lots of money.
Yeah, it was about half a
million dollars for private pilot.
Yeah.
So when the VA cut that check,
they were like, all right, we gotta.
We got.
Why is UND's private pilot
program 20 grand, 30 grand.
But this one's 50 and ASU is 80.
Like, what's going on?
We need to figure out some way
to like, standardize these payment
structures.
I mean, it makes sense, right?
Like, you don't want your tax
money going to something in their
private and freaking turbine
for 500 grand.
Exactly, exactly.
So the VA went to ASU and
said, hey, like, we need you to meet
UND's payment style.
UND they.
They release the average.
Like it.
How.
How many hours on average it
takes somebody to go through each
course, and then they charge
that to the.
To Veterans Fair.
That seems fair.
Outside looking.
Seems fair.
Yeah.
Not as good of a deal for you
for getting 1500 hours paid for,
but, you know, it works.
Yeah, but I mean, exactly.
They're paying for the
average, they're not paying for the
minimum.
Right, right.
And they.
The VA went to asu, and ASU
says, hahaha, we're asu, you're not
going to tell us how to run
our program.
And the VA said, haha, we let
people die on waiting lists.
And then they cut them off and
they didn't tell the veterans until
like three days before the
semester started that they had to
go find new funding.
So a bunch of veterans went to
the news, and ASU pretty much said,
hey, hey, hey, hey, we'll
cover you for a semester.
This is our bad.
Our bad.
We'll cover you for one
semester for your flight training.
But beyond that, you got to go
find your own funding if we haven't
solved our problem with the VA.
So I did one semester at ASU,
where I ended up getting something
like 70, 80 hours, and ASU
partnered with ATP.
So all of my flight training
was technically with ATP, but all
of my ground training was with
ASU for private pilot.
Okay.
Yeah, it was a really weird
program because if you got ahead
on your flight training, you
ended up, like, recovering stuff
in ground school or your
instructor was having to kind of
like fill the gaps since you
hadn't gotten there in ground school.
Either way, interesting.
Their program has changed.
Now, this is just my
experience, but after that one semester,
ASU hadn't solved their
kerfuffle with the VA.
But right next door to ASU's
aviation campus was Chandler Gilbert
Community College in
partnership with und.
Why is UND just following you
around like a black cloud?
They're like, oh, you think we
suck, huh?
We'll watch this.
We're gonna get you.
And they eventually did.
They eventually did.
I ended up, you know, because
I didn't know what to do.
I had sold all of my stuff.
But before this, you know, I was.
I was, as I said, I was
working at Geek Squad up in New York.
I was racing drones in New
York making okay money.
And I ended up selling all of
my drones so I could go be a real
pilot.
And, you know, couldn't go
back to that.
Couldn't.
You know, I.
I didn't have the money to go
back to where I was, to get the job
back, so I had to figure
something out.
So I.
I hopped on next door to
Chandler Gilbert Community College
in partnership with und and
went through their entire program.
And it was.
To be honest, it was an
absolutely wonderful program.
It was a lot more structured
than my experience with ASU partnering
with ATP.
The.
The.
I don't know.
What.
What else could I really say?
It was a better program, at
least compared to.
To what I was experiencing at
ASU at the time.
You know, I'm not trying to
badmouth asu.
No.
In their flight training or anything.
I just had a better time at
Chandler Gilbert Community College.
I made a lot of friends.
Yeah.
And then I instructed there.
I became a check pilot for
their private pilot and instrument
stage checks.
I wanted to become a spin
pilot, but they said no.
I don't know why.
We don't like your beard.
You can't do it.
That might have been it.
I know.
When I went and did my spin
training, I had an absolute blast.
I thought it was the most fun
in the world.
But, yeah, after that, I
instructed for a little over a year
and decided I'm gonna go be a
big boy pilot and I'm gonna go fly
the airlines.
And I got a job at Air Wisconsin.
It was between Mesa and Air Wisconsin.
And I mean, anybody who's kind
of been perusing the regional market
right now knows, well, right
now they're pretty much willing to
take what they can get.
But back when I was looking at
regionals, you know, instructors
kind of had options.
I mean, don't get me wrong, my
options were Air Wisconsin and Mesa.
So they weren't great options,
but options nonetheless.
But I.
There were.
There were options.
And Air Wisconsin, for me, at
least, wasn't.
It wasn't as bad of an option
as Mesa.
Mesa would have kept me in Arizona.
My significant other had just
gotten a job at a different regional
which based them in Chicago.
So I was like, okay, well, if
I get Air Wisconsin.
Air Wisconsin's based in
Chicago and Milwaukee.
And I think at the time it was
Dulles was.
Was their.
Their other base.
So I took the job at Air
Wisconsin and spent three years on
reserve.
It.
It wasn't great, but I learned
a lot.
The CRJ200 is a fun airplane
to fly.
Let it retire the lawn dart.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
It is tired.
But after the three years
there, Wisconsin, my wife had gotten
captain at the regional she
was working at.
So I was like, ah, I'm done
here at Air Wisconsin.
I'm not making progress.
My wife's captain at that
other regional.
Let me throw my app in and I
can just be her first officer, and
we can just pick up a bunch of
trips and make good money.
Because at the time, our
schedules were so mismatched and
never lining up.
We ended up getting, like.
There was one month where we
got like 36 hours together.
Solid, dude.
Life of a pilot, man.
It's glamorous, right?
Yeah.
Yep.
Some of the stuff they don't
tell you when you're going through
training and you just see,
hey, this first officer is making
100 grand.
I could do that.
Exactly.
The only problem is they're
getting eight days off a month and
they're living in a crash pad,
and they've had their base changed
four times in the last two years.
It's not personal, though.
It's not personal.
No, no.
None of it's personal.
And I mean, that.
That's.
Yeah.
But as I was in training for.
Or Right.
As when I picked the jet that
she was on because she was on the
145, she called me and told me
she got a job at a major airlines.
Now I'm stuck on the 145.
I mean, one.
Good for you guys.
All right.
Like, that actually shows progress.
We're making it.
We're doing it.
But like, hey, I came here for you.
Yeah, exactly.
So, you know, it's.
It's.
It's not a bad deal.
You know, she got at one of
the highest paying major airlines,
so we're doing fine.
So I decided after a little
over a year at.
At that regional, the one that
I moved over to for her, they were
trying to displace me.
They were.
What a displacement is, is they're.
They're trying to force you
from where you are like what seat
you're in into a different seat.
And they were trying to
displace me from fairly senior 145
fo to as junior as you can get
175 captain.
There would have been 99.9% of
the seniority list above me.
And I pretty much told him, I
was like, I can't, I can't do that.
I'll have, hey, your pay is
going to be great.
You're like, yeah, but I'm
never going to get a day off.
Exactly.
And that's kind of what they
told me is they're like, the pay
is great.
You know, you're going to make
175 grand a year.
And me and my wife talked
about it.
I was like, yeah, I'll make
175 grand a year.
They're also paying something
like a, like a $75,000 bonus.
You know, we'll be able to pay
off the airplane and you know, put
avionics in it.
And then she responded, what
for you to never fly it because you're
never home?
And I'm like, checks, checks.
So I told Envoy, I was like,
hey, I'm, I'm not willing to, I'm
not willing to be displaced.
You know, I, I came here for
this base, I came here for this jet.
For me to be displaced, it's
gonna absolutely decimate any semblance
of quality of life that I've got.
Can you at the very least
guarantee me the fact that I'll be
in Dallas for more than six months?
And they were like, no, we can't.
I was like, okay, well I can't
sign a six month lease, so I quit.
They're like, wait, wait,
yeah, we've never had anyone quit
before.
Don't you know what you're
giving up?
And that's kind of the conversation.
They were like, this is a lot
of money.
Like what, what do we need to
do to like, like.
Because at that point they
were losing a bunch of their pilots
to the majors.
Nobody was wanting to upgrade.
That's why I was getting
displaced to captain because nobody
wanted to lose their quality
of life.
And that's pretty much what I
told him.
I was like, sorry, I enjoyed
the quality of life that I had.
I, I had a decent amount of
days off.
The amount of money that
you're going to be pay isn't worth
the fact that I will maybe get
48 hours home a month for the next
five years.
So after that I went and flew
for the Department of Natural Resources.
Actually, that was an absolute blast.
I flew a Cessna 185 as a 300,
350 horsepower tail dragger.
That's awesome.
Sounds like.
Get a lot of trouble in that thing.
Oh, it was.
It was an absolute blast.
A lot of it was just going out
looking for evidence of a fire to
prevent it from, you know,
burning down an entire forest.
But also it was like counting
beaver dams, counting eagle nests,
trying to see how many eggs
you can see in the eagle nest to
see if eagles are, you know,
repopulating, see if they're endangered
and whatnot.
Would you.
Absolutely.
Would you have someone in the
plane with you from there to help
you spot?
Okay.
Because when I was flying
freight, we had a contract with.
With.
I flew freight Northeast Ohio.
We had a contract with
Pennsylvania with their kind of wild.
And they would use our caravans.
We'd have a firefighter in the back.
We'd fly around, like, our
certain sections.
They would see smoke, we'd go
circle it.
They'd put a TFR in and they'd
call the cops, they'd call the fire
department, they call
everyone, and then boom, they're
there to put it out immediately.
So I didn't know if it was
something similar to that.
Oh, well.
So when it came to fire, that
was all on us.
You know, we didn't have the.
We didn't have the equipment
to put out the fire.
We would end up calling the
air bosses from Minnesota.
Yeah.
I think either way, we'd end
up calling air bosses or the National
Guard if we needed it, if the
local fire department couldn't handle
it.
But when it came to, like, the
wildlife stuff.
Yeah, we'd have somebody that
could actually identify the difference
between an eagle and a duck.
Because, I mean, I'm flying an
airplane, I'm like, that's a flappy
thing.
Eagle.
It's got wings.
It's got wings.
Yeah.
Well, there was one time we
took out the 337, the Cessna 337.
And they were like, we're
going to go count skulls.
And I'm like, okay, well,
there's one.
They're like, no, that's a duck.
It was like, what?
How can you tell?
What's what?
Like, how can you tell?
Yeah, like.
Yeah, there's like 20 of them
right there.
I'm like, ah, it looks like 15
to me.
How do you know?
Yeah, I count 17, boss.
Sorry.
Yeah, so that one was.
That one was interesting.
But, you know, we.
When it came to the wildlife
stuff, a lot of times we would have
Like a biologist or you know,
somebody specialized in that animal
in the back or even in the
front, depending on, you know, if
they got motion sick or whatnot.
It always blows my mind the
different types of ways you can either
build time, make money or
actually fly in aviation.
It's like you never thought
that was an option, right?
Especially someone coming from
the airlines, like, oh, what am I
going to do next?
So I'm going to go spot wildlife.
You know, it's just like never
comes through your mind that that's
an option.
It's really like how, how did
that job even come to?
Was it recommended?
Were you just like on Google?
Like obscure pilot jobs that
no one has ever thought of and boom.
Wildlife.
You know, when I got the
displacement order, I started looking
on like USAjobs.com or.gov
which is, it's, it's a website for
again like veterans or
military affiliates, for lack of
a better way to put it, to get
preferential hiring.
Because a lot of these jobs,
they get, they get put out into like
the government sector first
before they get put out to the public.
So I'm literally just sitting
in the right seat of the 145 waiting
to depart, you know, after all
my pre flight stuff is all done.
Scrolling through USAjobs.gov
and they're like, Wildlife Pilot,
DNR Pilot.
And I'm like, what's that?
So I tap it and they're just
like, these are your tasks.
You're gonna go count ducks,
you're gonna go look for fires, you're
gonna go search and rescue.
You know, I think they even
described it as like a bush pilot
position, you know.
And I went and did the
interview and don't get me wrong,
the interview, you know, I'm
over here on the east side of Wisconsin.
The interview was literally as
far west in Wisconsin as you can
go.
So it was something like a
five hour drive for me to get to
this interview.
And yeah, they showed me all
about what the job is.
You know, they had like
antennas and stuff to track animals
that had, you know, trackers
on them for, to try and keep track
of like wolf packs and moose
and all this other jazz.
And I'm just like, so I get to
fly around and protect endangered
species and, and help with the
park systems and when we're not flying,
I get to go and volunteer to
help clean up at the parks.
I, I mean I already do that in
my free time, so I might as well
get paid to do it.
So.
Yeah.
And then eventually the money
just ran out.
Typical government jobs.
Yep, yep.
They, the money ran out.
When I was working there.
They had me working on a, a
drone program because, you know,
I had the experience with
drones and I think that's the way
that they decided to go
because they were just spending so
much money keeping that
aviation program up.
Right before I left, they,
they had just bought a 182 and they
spent, I think they spent like
210 grand on a 182 that needed an
overhaul and a new prop.
I'm like, should ask me first.
I'm like, that's a, like that.
I'm genuinely surprised that
the FAA gave you the ferry permit
to get that home.
Did you get a ferry permit?
Like, is this.
I was like, so after that I,
you know, got picked up or, you know,
I got picked up by an ultra
low cost carrier that has a base
near me that has their pilots
home every night.
I went through the training
with them.
And you know, for those of you
who might been, you know, who might
have been following what I'm
kind of going through right now,
I got picked up by them.
And then when I went to go
renew my medical, there was some
stuff from Afghanistan that I
guess got brought up that doesn't
correlate to anything in my VA record.
So I've been spending about
the last two years working through
the FAA's process of a
deferral denial and then, you know,
reapply for medical
certificate and all my paperwork's
in.
We're just waiting about
another from the FAA's estimate,
four to seven months.
So two years.
Another two years.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's rough.
But that's, that's kind of
what's gotten me to, to here to this
point where, you know, I'm
making content, doing mock check
rides, trying to make it so
that, trying, trying to put out approachable,
reasonable content to help
people through, whether it be private
pilot, instrument, commercial,
CFI, et cetera.
It sounds like in the 27
minutes we've been talking, it's
like you're open.
You, it seems like you have a
good attitude toward what's coming.
Like you try to look at the
bright side of it.
I may be wrong, but some of
the things that you're talking about,
especially being displaced and
going from kind of like you're on
your dream track, right?
You're at the regional.
The regional has a flow.
The flows to a major, like,
you see your life kind of playing
out and then you, you make the
tough decision to say it's not worth
the money and you, and you,
and you drop it.
Then you find a job flying wildlife.
But that itself is kind of an
ego hit.
It hurts, you know, because
you're on the track and then you
go back away from the track.
Can you talk a little bit
about facing that and talking about
was it harder than it made it sound?
Was it, was it an easy decision?
Kind of talk a little bit
about that.
So if I'm going to be honest,
if I didn't have a reason to come
home, I'd have been more than
happy to get displaced.
I eventually got a reason to
come home kind of thing.
So when I was offered a way to
continue flying, my significant others,
making plenty of money.
When I got offered a position
to continue flying and protect the
environment, the parks that I
love and enjoy up here in Wisconsin,
it wasn't an ego hit.
It was more of a.
It kind of gave purpose to
flying again.
Because as a regional pilot,
you know, there's times like, where
are you going today?
And I'm like, I don't know.
I put the letters in the box
and we go, you know, there, there
was times where I would do,
you know, six legs a day.
And it was back and forth.
Chicago, Milwaukee.
It's rough, dude, especially,
it's like, that's.
Yeah.
And, you know, I don't get me
wrong, I know it gets better.
I know you eventually start
going to cool, interesting places.
You know, my, my wife, she
flies to Anchorage a couple times
a month, you know, now that
she's at the major.
But if we were both on that
track, we'd never see each other.
Right.
So now on the, you know, what
we're currently doing, you know,
even when I do get my medical
back, like, I don't, I don't even
really know if I'm honestly
going to go back to it.
I enjoy what I'm doing.
I enjoy going out and flying
with Dirtbag and making videos.
I enjoy teaching.
I know when I was an
instructor, you know, I kind of talked
down on it.
I was like, this sucks.
I'm going to go be a big boy pilot.
I'm going to go fly jets.
But now, you know, every time
I get the opportunity to teach, every
time I see that kind of light
bulb moment with a student, I'm just
like, yes, there it is.
Let's go.
You know, and, and I'm one of
those weirdos that actually enjoys
teaching.
One of those weirdos that
actually enjoys instructing.
It's not a, it's not a Means
to an end.
It's not to get my hours.
It's not.
I actually enjoy teaching, and I.
And I hope that comes across
in, like, all the videos and whatnot
that I do.
Teaching students, do you
think you would.
Ever come back to teaching if
it wasn't for kind of your tracks?
So let's say you take the
displacement, you're now at a major
airline, you're doing your thing.
Do you think you would
eventually be where you are today,
either making content or even instructing?
I feel like I would, given
that, you know, once you get on that
track, you end up getting that
quality of life back.
It just takes years to get there.
And, you know, it's kind of a
dice roll on whether you ever get
there, you know, my
significant other, she was lucky
she got hired.
I mean, don't get me wrong,
she wasn't necessarily lucky.
She was qualified.
But the point in which she got
hired, that, yes, exactly.
The timing made it so that
within the next year, she ended up
with 50% of the company
underneath her on the seniority list.
If I was to try and jump back
in today, I would have 98% of the
company above me, especially
now that hiring is slowing, is slowing
down.
You know, in the next few
years, we're going to see a lot of.
A lot of, you know, 65s drop off.
But at least from what I've
seen, you know, reading Arrow Crew
news and all those, you know,
looking through the forums and whatnot,
they've gotten the backfill,
they have the pipeline.
Sure.
If I eventually want to go
back and fly big jets, it's an option,
but I think I'd rather go back
and teach how to fly big jets like
I'm doing right now teaching
in the Airbus 320 SIM.
And again, you know, you see
the light bulb moments of the students
finally figuring it out after
they, you know, just burned 1500
hours of holes in the sky in
their cub, and now they're in an
A320 sim going, oh, my God,
this is insane.
And then they figure it out.
You know, you.
You bridge that gap between
what they were doing and what they
want to do.
I think that's more rewarding
than flying to Paris in a wide body
any day.
Yeah, rewarding.
I could see that.
But then you go to Paris, you
know, you get your.
You get your coffee, you have
your place you want to go to, you
have your wine bar that you
always go to.
You know, there's perks to it, too.
They're definitely there.
Definitely is.
Yeah.
But I don't know.
I enjoy my little fluffy cats
more than Paris.
I think it's awesome.
I mean, I think it's really cool.
Because that's what aviation
is, right?
Aviation is a way for you.
And I think a lot of airline
pilots, myself included, especially
when I flew at my last job, I
was a fractional pilot.
So similar ish to a regional
pilot with some days that are much
better than a regional pilot,
but have the days that you feel like
a regional pilot, if that
makes sense.
But it kind of wears you out.
Right.
Like, you have this goal.
You see someone that's 60, 55,
living your dream, flying to Paris
on a wide body, making ungodly
amounts of money.
But there's such a disconnect
in how long that's going to take
for you to get there.
Right.
So you think when you get to
the airlines, life's good.
They beat you down, they work
you hard, they.
They get their money out of you.
Right.
You're paying your dues and
you kind of lose the love of flying.
And a lot of people come to
the situation or come to the moment
that you're at.
Where is it worth me getting
displaced when I have a life at home
that I like and I'm not going
to be there?
And you got to make the
choice, you know, you're going to
be miserable and just say,
hey, this is the path that I'm going
to go down.
This is what I signed up for.
It's going to get better,
which it might get better.
Right.
Very well.
Two years, three years could
get better.
But you have to make that choice.
And I think it's really
commendable that you made that choice.
And you're like, my quality
life, my sanity and my wife is worth
it to kind of step back and
figure it out.
And it sounds like you found
kind of your love for flying again
and your love for teaching,
which it really worked out for you.
Exactly.
And I mean, don't get me
wrong, you know, if my, if my spouse
or my wife hadn't gotten that
job at the major airline.
Yeah.
No, that wouldn't have been an option.
Right.
It had been like, oh, I'm
getting displaced.
Well, that sucks.
Yeah.
Guess we won't see each other anymore.
I guess I'm going to Dallas.
Yeah.
But, you know, the fact that
she, you know, worked hard and got
from zero to major airline in
seven years.
Yeah.
The fact that she was able to
accomplish that is.
Is what gave me the
opportunity to go, to take a step
back to fall back in love with aviation.
To fall back in love with
flying, you know, small airplanes.
To go back to teaching
because, I mean, I prefer teaching
over swinging gear and sitting
in cruise for four hours any day.
Yeah, I mean, there's
definitely something to it.
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And now back to today's episode.
Uh, I want to go back to
flight training for you, especially
now.
Kind of give advice of what
you would say to young Cheese pilot
when you probably didn't go by
Cheese pilot back then, but we're
just going to say you always
went by Cheese Pilot since that's
your name.
What would you, what did you
learn from that?
With like your initial, I'm
going to go to North Dakota.
Oh, wait, North Dakota sucks.
I'm going to go to Arizona State.
Oh, crap.
The G or the VA isn't going to
pay for this anymore.
Then you find another program.
What would you recommend to
someone that maybe has a GI bill
is in your position?
How could they?
Is it possible to avoid what
you went through with choosing one,
then getting the VA kind of
saying, hey, we're not funding this
anymore.
Kind of just talk about what
you learned and what you'd recommend
someone in that situation to
go through her to.
Decide, try and what I, what I
would definitely recommend is go
to your local airport and hang out.
A lot of times the FBOs are
more than happy.
Now, of course, I'm not saying
go to Chicago O'Hare, you know, or
even Midway and just hang out.
That's how you get put on a list.
But, you know, find that local
regional airport that's got a flight
school, go take a Discovery
flight, talk to people about it,
get on, you know, Facebook,
reach out to people like me.
I respond to every single
message that shows up on my Instagram,
my TikTok, my YouTube.
I do my best to respond to.
Every single one responded to me.
So I'd had fun with the AI for
a little bit.
I recently turned that off
because of it.
It just wasn't working.
But so I personally, you know,
I don't do the AI thing anymore,
but I personally try to
respond to every single message I
get.
So if you've got questions
about the GI Bill, about going through
your flight training, reach
out, ask.
The worst they can do is
ignore you.
Yeah.
So I definitely say do your
best to find firsthand experiences,
firsthand advice, as opposed
to trusting a random person with
a WIX website.
And, I mean, if.
I'm just going to be frank
about it, just go to.
Go to und.
If you've got your GI Bill and
you're looking for a place to go
get your flight training done,
go to und.
It's.
It's a great program.
You'll.
You'll finish the program and
most likely get a position there.
I'm not gonna, obviously not
going to guarantee a position at
und.
That's not something I can do.
But, you know, if you're a
good instructor, if you pass all
your check rides, or if you're
a good student, you pass all your
check rides on the first try
and all that other jazz.
They have a program that they
call preferential hiring.
I'm not entirely sure how it
works, but what I'm getting at is
that if you have a GI Bill,
just go to UND and go through their
program and take a job as an
instructor with them and make your
decision on.
On your quality of life.
You know, how much money do
you really want slash need?
You know, because I got a
buddy who stayed at UND and became
a.
Oh, he became an assistant chief.
And when I was slogging it at
Air Wisconsin going, is this worth
it?
Oh, my God, this sucks.
He was flying a King Air with
students making 75 grand a year.
Yeah.
And he was home every night.
This isn't how it was supposed
to work out.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And the only reason he didn't
go to the airlines is he wasn't old
enough for an ATP.
Oh, geez.
He wasn't old enough for an
ATP certificate, so he just stayed
at UND down in Arizona and
eventually became an assistant chief
and started teaching in the
King Air and teaching at ground school.
He was home every night.
He made his own schedule.
Sure.
He's not.
If he was to stay, he wouldn't
eventually make the 4 or 500 grand
a year that, you know, Delta,
FedEx and UPS pilots make.
But he's home every night.
Yeah.
Especially when you have kids.
You realize how important that is.
You know me pre kids, even
when my wife's a doctor, so she works
all the time, she's finishing
up a residency.
But it was just weird as
grinding, right?
It's like, oh, it doesn't
matter if I work blah x amount of
times because we're both
working on a shared goal.
But then you have a kid and
you're like, you know, I would rather
make less and be home as much
as possible.
It's like, especially for the
young part of his life, it's like,
I do not want to miss a single
thing why I'm this kid's hero.
It's one of the reasons why I
came to the airlines.
Counterintuitive.
I went, I left my last job
where I was getting some seniority
and came here just so I have
the ability to.
Eventually, when I get more
senior and hopefully they start hiring
again more, hopefully I'll
have the ability to create my own
schedule essentially.
You know, obviously I'm not
going to get everything I want, but
it gives me more time at home.
So that was the goal.
And that's what I'm hoping
will happen.
Maybe one day I'll be working
for Cheese Pie.
I'd be like, dude, I want to
be what you're doing.
So, yeah, it's.
Yeah.
Oh, you know, believe.
It's hilarious that you bring
that up.
I actually did just bring
someone on board to help me kind
of fill out a backlog or fill
in a backlog of, you know, so many
students wanting, you know,
mock check rides and tutoring and
whatnot.
And, you know, it's, it's,
it's been great actually having somebody
to help, I bet.
So that's not outside the
realm of possibility.
You know what's funny is when
I was kind of not necessarily making
money with the podcast, just
like having my roadmap thinking where
I wanted to be.
I always thought it'd be
really cool to have a website where
I have vetted instructors and
you could sign up for an instructor
and book off a 45 minute mock
oral or even just a lesson.
Because, you know, when you're
training, your instructor learns
your weaknesses and learns
your strengths.
So the questions they ask
could kind of push you in a way that
how they know to get the right
answer when you go in for your check
ride, they don't.
That's not going to happen.
They're just going to ask you
the question or they're going to
ask you questions in different
order and be completely different.
Talking with someone that you
don't have a Relationship with that.
You don't know if your jokes
will make them laugh.
You feel very uncomfortable.
Is that overcoming that is
almost one of the hardest parts of
the checkride.
Right.
There's trying to be calm in
that moment.
So I always thought that was
going to be super beneficial.
So it's cool that you're doing that.
It's cool that you're doing
the mock check rides.
I watch them.
I.
It's funny how much you forget
when, you know, you're at the airline
part.
I'm like, you asked a question.
I was like.
And the guy's like, blah,
blah, blah.
I was like, oh, wow.
If I fly small planes, I need
to read a lot of stuff again, which
I don't think a lot of airline
pilots realize.
They probably still think it's
just in the brain, but it's like,
dude, I don't remember much
about being a private pilot, but
I think it's cool, especially
since my only resource was a video
that was made on YouTube.
You probably watched it too,
but it's like this really old stuffy
guy with big glasses, but in
like a mock world check ride.
And I'd watch that thing religiously.
So having the opportunity to
watch the check rides, I think is
pretty cool.
Yep.
And.
And that's.
That's kind of why I started
doing them, because I realized that
there was.
There was that huge gap in the content.
Right.
There was that huge gap in
studying material that there was,
you know, that one ancient
video that was probably recorded
on a VHS tape that was then
digitized, that was then, you know,
uploaded to YouTube, you know,
two days after YouTube started.
It's the second video ever made.
Exactly.
But, you know, so.
So I realized that it could be
used as a great tool for.
For other people, you know, to
watch these.
And that's what a lot of the
comments are, is.
I put.
I put this playlist on repeat
and just listen for any kind of question.
Listen for anything.
I don't understand.
Pause it for when I need to,
you know, think about it.
But on that, that note of, you
know, you being an airline pilot
and then, you know, hearing
some of these questions and not knowing
it.
That was when I taught my wife
how to fly our seaplane.
I.
I definitely.
That was.
That was when I really
recognized that airline pilots do
get out of the habit of all
those things that you learn and study
and whatnot.
Going through private pilot.
Because this is such a huge
gap between flying that Cessna 150
or flying a Lake 200 and
flying a 737, 100.
Yeah.
And it's, It's.
It's interesting to see
because, you know, when I still had
my medical before I was, you
know, dealing with this, with the
faa, I did teach a couple, you
know, retired airline pilots that
spent 40 years flying a wide
body or what have you, and now they
want to go back to general
aviation, and they all want to flare
at 75ft, and none of them know
what a tomato flames is.
So it's.
It's interesting to see how
you spend all this time and effort
and money studying and
learning all of these things, and
then when you finally make it,
you just brain dump it.
Yep.
Because it doesn't really
apply to that wide body or that 7:3
or that 320 that you end up
getting in.
Not as much.
Damn.
When you.
We're talking about the
medical a little bit.
How would you.
Are you.
Are you frustrated with the process?
Do you understand why it's
taking so long?
Is it something that is.
Is affecting you more than
maybe you let on?
Or has it been like a.
Are you not as worried about
it because you have found something
that you love to do?
So initially, you know, when the.
The AME was like, hey, you
know, X, Y, and Z, we're gonna have
to defer this.
Yeah, that was a rough couple days.
Like, I can't.
I can't really argue or even
try to, you know, play that off,
that it sucked.
You know, I'm.
I'm looking at my bills.
I'm looking at, you know, my
mortgage, my airplane payment, my
insurance for my airplane.
You know, I'm looking at all
of these bills that I've got in front
of me that, that, you know, I
had budgeted for.
Yeah.
And now I'm being told like,
hey, because of something from a
decade ago that you weren't
aware of, your career's in jeopardy.
I'm like, okay, what?
And it sucked.
You know, I did everything I
could to try and those first few
days, few weeks, I did
everything I could to try and track
down where those records even
came from, because I still haven't
been able to find them.
They're their Department of
Defense records that I don't have
access to.
So I'm really confused how the
FAA does.
Not saying that they shouldn't.
I'm just saying that, you
know, if I would have known they
existed, it would have been a
reported event 10 years ago.
As opposed to yourself.
Yeah, yeah.
As opposed, you know, it would
have been a self report as opposed
to finding out about it.
A decade into my career now,
as I've continued to go through the
process, it's.
It's incredibly frustrating.
It's.
It's incredibly arduous.
You know, I went to therapy in
Afghanistan, or I talked to somebody
in Afghanistan because my
platoon sergeant abandoned me in
Kabul.
Like, that was it.
I talked to somebody about
difficult experiences in my life.
And now you can't have a medical.
To go fly an airplane.
And I'm like, that's.
That's really odd.
And because of that, the FAA
made me go and get checked for, what
was it?
Parkinson's?
I'm like, what?
Yeah.
Where's the correlation
between talking to someone in Parkinson's?
Exactly.
And that's kind of been.
The frustrating thing is
because, like, they.
They stamp this.
You got to go get a neurocog
on anybody that's had, you know,
some kind of mental health
treatment, whether it be therapy,
et cetera, medication.
They.
They just like, not Neurocog.
And that neurocog is.
It's expensive, and there's a
personality test in it, which, you
know, sure, we're checking you
to make sure that you don't have,
you know, some kind of weird
deviancy or whatnot that's going
to be a detriment to the
national airspace system or passengers
or whatnot.
I get that.
But then they're also
checking, like, IQ like, one of the
questions they asked me was
like, who wrote Alice in Wonderland?
I'm like, jeff, I have no idea
who wrote Alice in Wonderland.
I know Johnny Depp was in the
movie, right?
That.
Like, Johnny Depp in the movie.
Yeah, but, like.
And that's just the weird
thing is because, yeah, they want
to make sure that, you know, I'm.
I'm.
I don't have any men, you
know, mental handicaps or, you know,
reduced mental faculties, but
I'd be willing to bet that 80% of
pilots over 62 wouldn't have
passed that test.
You know, and.
And that's kind of the
frustrating part.
And it's.
It really gets frustrating
when you've got.
Because at this point, I've
got something like 11 or 12 doctors
that have all written letters
to the FAA saying, put him in the
game, coach.
He is not a risk to the
national airspace system.
And I'm still going to be waiting.
You know, the original.
The original wait time was six
to nine months.
Now it's been two months since then.
So it's just.
I just wish that the system
was a little bit more streamlined
and that they would.
When it comes to mental
health, they would trust the treating
physician.
Yeah, that, that's all it
would take is the treating physician
to say, yeah, we've checked
this guy.
Here's the, the record of care
showing that there is no evidence
of concern over X, Y and Z
time period.
Even the FAA can set the time period.
You know, if the FAA wants you
to be clear from X, Y and z symptoms
for 2 years, 5 years, 4 years, etc.
And then you trust the
treating physician to make that determination,
we could really streamline
this process because at this point,
like, I, I'm going to an AME
in Seattle once a year, you know,
or I'm meeting with them every
six months.
I actually have to fly out to
them once every other appointment
for them to go.
We're waiting on the faa.
It's really frustrating and I
get it.
It's, you know, it's a
government agency.
They're, they're working with
government budgets.
They're, they're, they have,
they have a pretty large task at
hand to verify that pilots are
fit and safe.
But if we can trust a treating
physician to clear a pilot from a
broken arm or even cancer, I,
I don't understand why therapy has
to be treated so much differently.
Are there any resources that
are out there for, for help with
you?
Like, I know AOPA has some
stuff, but I don't know how far they
go.
You know, I just know that
they have, like, hey, this is the
process.
Do I help you with?
Like, is there any resource
that you have?
Is it.
Do you reach out to an
aviation lawyer?
What are you kind of going through?
How are you navigating through this?
Just personal research or what
are you doing?
So my, the airline that I was
with, the ultra low cost carrier
that I was with, I'm
technically still on the seniority
list for them, believe it or not.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah.
I've got amazing seniority
now, but I'm, I'm technically on
the seniority list for them.
And they use a company called
Harvey Watt.
Yeah.
And Harvey Watt is, I guess, a
bunch of retired doctors from Cami,
from the Civil Aeronautical
Medical Institute that know the process
because they were the ones
doing the process.
So they've helped me through a
lot of this.
Who then?
For people who aren't necessarily.
I'm gonna do a little plug
real quick.
For those who aren't
necessarily affiliated with an airline
that has, you know, something
like Harvey Watt or Amass or even
alpa, I think, has their own
little thing.
There's a group that I was
working with, not as them helping
me, but as in me trying to,
you know, help them get notoriety
and whatnot.
Aeromed Legal, it's, it's free.
I hate to, to explain them
like this way, but it's free.
Harvey Watt for those who
can't afford Harvey Watt.
There you go.
They, that's their entire deal
is you call them and you explain
your situation and they say,
hey, you don't need us to like do
X, Y and Z, but here's these
links for you to, to fill out these
forms.
These are the, the pre, filled
out forms that the FAA is expecting
you to provide them, even
though they don't tell you that they
want those forms.
You know, it's, it's, it's
things like at one point the FAA
wanted me to, to go to the VA
and, and get something, but they
gave me something like 90 days
to do it.
And any veteran knows you're
not going to get an appointment with
the VA within 90 days.
If you didn't have Harvey
Watt, you would go, well, what the
hell am I supposed to do?
And then you'd pass that 90 days.
The FAA would send you a
denial letter saying you didn't comply
with our instructions, have a
nice day, try to reapply.
And it would turn into a
whole, whole slew.
It could end up in an NTSB
hearing and whatnot.
But really what Harvey Watt
explained to me was, oh, we just
need to send him a letter
asking for an extension.
And it was that simple.
It was a one page form saying,
hey, we can't get an appointment
within this time frame.
This is the appointment.
Can we get an extension for 30 days?
And the FAA responded, of
course, yeah, it's super simple.
Why wouldn't we do that?
Yeah, but they don't tell you that.
It's weird.
And that's really what Aeromed
Legal is there for, so that you don't
end up in that whole slew of
possible NTSB hearing and all this
other jazz from that denial,
all because all you needed to do
was send them a letter for a
30 day extension.
You sound like the type of
person that thinks about how to fix
things, how to fix processes.
Have you theorized, thought
about what you would do to change
the faa, to change this process?
Or are you pretty much just so
done with this, you just want the
medical back and you're gonna
just go back and just never talk
to him again?
Never talk about him again?
You know, I kind of have to
caveat this with the faa actually
diagnosed Me as well.
I don't know if I want to say diagnosed.
If you look at the paperwork
the FAA sent me, their reason for
denial was narcissistic
personality traits, believe it or
not.
So I try not to say, hey, I
know how to fix this, because that
sounds like a narcissist.
But what I do know is that
there's a group called Pilots Mental
Health Campaign that is
partnering with.
Was it representative cast in.
Okay, yeah.
Representative cast in.
To try and get a bill forward to.
To try and do things like get
rid of the neurocog for.
For therapy, to.
To allow treatment of basic
symptoms, to.
To get the.
To get the FAA's mental health
framework more in line with ICAO
is really what the end goal is.
Because when you look at
things like Australia and you get
their.
Their medical thing, if you.
You can get on certain
antidepressants in pretty much 30
days without symptoms, go back
to work.
Because it's pretty straightforward.
You know, the FAA is something
like six months.
You know, when you look at the
ADHD thing, they're like, you need
to be off medication and no
symptoms for, like, two or four years.
That's crazy.
And it's like, okay, so you've
told someone that they need to drop
off all their medication and
then mask for four years to convince
you that they're safe.
Yeah.
And is that right?
Is that wrong?
I don't know.
Not a mental health professional.
I don't work for Cami.
They never offered me the job,
so I could very well be wrong.
But dumb, dumb pilot.
I'm sitting here thinking,
wouldn't I rather somebody have their
condition treated and under
control instead of just hiding it?
You would think that, you
know, if.
Somebody walked into the
flight deck with their middle finger
bent backwards and say, hey,
you need to go get that checked out
before we go hop in this airplane.
And then they'd get a splint,
they'd get all the health care that
they need, and their primary
care physician would clear them back
to work.
I feel as if that treating
therapy and mental health treatment
the same way wouldn't.
Isn't that far of a reach.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
like you said, you.
You want to be able to.
To trust them.
Right?
Like, maybe they know what
they're doing, but it just seems
like there's been so many
instances where how they treat mental
health has negatively impacted
so many people.
They're leading them to
suicide or leading them to other
crazy things.
And it's just you.
You really want to think like,
isn't it better, like you said, to
figure out what's going on, to
treat them and then maybe you monitor
the progress.
Right.
You, you have them do check
ins every, every month.
You have them do certain stuff
to, to, to figure it out and to work
with them and make it work.
And for some people, maybe it
just won't work.
Right.
For some people,
unfortunately, there might be something
going on that you cannot be a
pilot anymore.
But I would be willing to bet
the majority of people can overcome
it with medicine, with
treatment, whatever it is that is
safe to fly.
But like you said, I'm not a pilot.
Or I'm a pilot.
Wow.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not a
mental health professional.
I'm not in the faa.
I'm there.
It's a very tough situation to
be in.
I don't know how to fix it.
You mentioned some groups that
are really working hard to try to
fix it.
And should it line up with Iko?
Most likely.
There are other caveats lining
up with Iko.
I know their, their medicals
itself are much more rigorous and
much more intense.
So maybe we lose more pilots
that way.
You know, it's like, I don't know.
So it's just an interesting
side and something we all need to
kind of advocate for for the
person, you know.
Right.
We got to remember the pilots
are people.
What they're going through,
it's very well, very possibly just
temporary.
Some people just have some
shitty situations and I try not to
cuss, but there's no other
really better way to put it other
than it's just not a great
situation and they need to deal with
it and then a couple months
later they're okay.
Yeah, exactly.
Nobody's.
Nobody's career should be put
in jeopardy because their kids in
the ICU and they want to talk
to a therapist.
Yeah, exactly.
Nobody, nobody should be.
Nobody's career should be at
risk if they're going through a divorce
and the court mandates therapy.
Yeah.
If you're trying to get
therapy paid for by insurance, you're
going to get a diagnosis.
Because I know a lot of
people, they'll be like, oh, well,
it's not reportable if you
don't get a diagnosis.
Yeah.
Therapy is like $250 an hour.
Yeah.
So a two hour session is 500 bucks.
Congratulations, you're paying
for that while you're not working.
Oh.
But if you want to get
insurance to pay for it, you need
a diagnosis.
So nobody's career should be
at risk just because they got A diagnosis
of adjustment disorder with
depressed mood.
Yeah.
And, you know, everyone's.
Anybody who's going to watch
this later is obviously going to
bring up Andrew Lubitz with
the German wings incident.
The German wings incident.
That pilot's primary care.
That pilot's treating
physician told that pilot not to
go to work.
They even provided them a note
to excuse them from work.
They chose to not disclose
that to the governing body and their
airline and went to work anyway.
If we had a system where the
treating physician had access to,
like, Cass or the chief
pilot's phone number or somebody
at Cami for them to, you know,
pull their medical, German wings
wouldn't have happened.
But instead we had a system
that allowed treatment but still
allowed the pilots to lie
about it.
Yeah.
When you.
When you look at Joseph
Emerson, you know, trying to pull
the fire handles on the 175 on
that horizon flight, that was a preventable
event.
The guy was distraught because
he went and took care of his buddy
that got absolutely creamed
by, I think, a semi while on a run
or a bike ride.
And it just bothered him for
years until it got to a point where
he was trying to medicate with
illicit substances because he was
too afraid of the FAA
standards around mental health.
What wouldn't.
Is it right?
I.
I don't know.
Maybe if the FAA went the
other way, we'd have a lot more fire
handles getting pulled.
I don't know.
But what I do see is that
somebody that wanted to go get help,
that wanted to talk to
somebody and wasn't able to and ended
up in a.
In a.
In a pretty, Pretty terrible situation.
Yeah.
I mean, that's when we kind of
talk about how it's tough.
The FAA is in a tough spot.
They are there to protect the
general public.
Right.
If they have one mistake, it.
It just changed.
They can't afford to have one mistake.
So I can understand why they
hold the position.
They do in holding people out.
Does it make sense?
No.
But when you look at it in a
grand scheme of things, they think
pulling just one.
What they think is a bad egg
out to protect the general public
is okay in their mind.
Now, like we said, is it okay?
I don't know.
That's not me to judge.
I mean, it's just how it is,
and it's.
It's a really bad system.
And unfortunately, and the IQ
part, whether you're talking about
German wings, like.
Well, they had, like, a
hodgepodge system, which obviously
doesn't work in that situation.
And protecting that, making sure.
It doesn't happen.
Has to be everyone's top
priority, because that's just something
that should never happen in an airplane.
So, yeah, I don't know how it
gets changed.
If anyone's listening to this,
knows how it gets changed as everyone's
working on this to get it changed.
Reach out to me, because I
would love to talk about that and
get the word out, because
there's been a lot of people that
have gone through, whether
it's medical, whether it's depression,
whether it's taking Ritalin or
whatever ADHD medicine you took at.
When you're six years old, you
know, there's so many things that
just get caught up in the
system, and then you're just waiting
for the fa, which seems to be
the most frustrating part.
It's like, all right, I
understand that maybe something like
this you want to, like you
kind of said, like, you understand
there's processes to go
through to prove that I'm okay, but
why am I just waiting on you
to read my report for an extra six
months or two years?
It's like, we need to speed
this up.
We need an exaggerated
timeline here to make this work so
I can go back to work or so I
can just do whatever, just get this
done with and have it out of
my life.
Exactly.
And I mean, that's probably
the biggest hurdle or biggest barrier
that a lot of pilots see is
that when you read it on paperwork,
because when you read what the
FAA puts out, when you read the AME
guidance, when you read the
pilot guidance, it looks like you
go to therapy, you'll be out
of work for six months at the most.
And that's just not the case.
It's.
You know, when you look at
Troy Merritt, a United Airlines pilot
that was just suffering from
symptoms, mild depression and mild
anxiety, he went and talked to
an FAA neuropsych.
Like, you can't go to a more
qualified aviation mental health
physician.
And he was out of work for two.
Over two years, even though
all symptoms were dealt with within
90 days.
And he went to the most
qualified mental health professional
available to him.
Yeah.
If you can do everything right
and still be out of work for two
years, all because you're
waiting on paperwork, you're not
going to convince pilots to go
to the doctor.
Exactly.
You know, I wasn't expecting
this conversation to go this way,
but it did.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
And I think these are
important conversations.
They're hard conversations.
I'm obviously not someone
that's qualified to talk smart about
it to be the one that comes up
with the plan.
But it's amazing to get these
conversations out there because 80%
of pilots, 90% of pilots will
never have to deal with this.
And it's not something that's
ever brought up to their mind.
You know, they hear about
their friend's friend who's going
through this and like, ah,
that kind of sucks.
And they're like, all right,
well, I'm going to go fly my plane
and make 400 grand.
You know, and it's just.
Exactly, you can't blame them
for it.
It's just not a part, it
doesn't affect them personally.
And when more people are
brought of awareness of what's going
on or how this is impacting
people, the more kind of advocation
you get for what's going on
and the more people that can kind
of rise to the cause and just
put some more pressure.
There's a lot of pressure on
the FAA right now.
I mean, you look, whenever
they post anything about mental health,
thousands of hundreds of
comments just like, you don't support
mental health.
And so, so they know and they,
I think recently they, they've stated
they're making changes.
What are the changes?
I don't know.
I haven't read them.
You probably have, but I, I
don't know how they go about it.
And I think that's kind of, I
don't, I don't know.
Yeah, it's just, it's just,
it's really unfortunate for how it's
set up.
Like we kind of talked about,
we understand they're protecting
the general public, but it
just stinks for the one out of 10
pilots that have to go through
this or the 10 out of a hundred,
you know, and I love.
That they're, what I will say
is that they do a.
When it comes to mental
health, they do a pretty good job
of, you know, putting up the
barriers to, to prevent those who
shouldn't be at the controls
from being at the controls.
You know, somebody who's,
who's got a history of.
I, you know, I'm not going to
quote any specific mental health
because I don't.
I.
The FAA puts an etc at the end
of their list of mental health things
that they would view as
disqualifying conditions.
But you know, they, when
somebody isn't qualified to fly when
it comes to mental health,
they do a pretty good job of ensuring
that they don't end up at the
controls of an aircraft.
The problem is they don't do
the same when it comes to physical
health.
Everybody knows that.
Good, Ame.
You know, everybody knows that
they can go to that one, Ame, that'll
just.
You're good.
You're good.
All right.
And send you on your way.
It's like fog, this mirror
real quick.
Yeah.
But so obviously that there's
something that needs to be done better.
We need a system that actually
verifies on whether or not pilots
are fit to fly.
I'd say that what the Coast
Guard does to verify that captains
are ship captains are good is
a really good system because they
force you to go to your
primary care with a form from the
Coast Guard saying, hey, we
need to verify that all of these
things are fit.
If they're not, give us the
reasons why and give us your medical
opinion on whether or not
these are disqualifying.
It's not that unreasonable to
have the treating physician or the
primary care be the deciding
factor of a cruise ship.
Why is it so, you know, would
it be that.
Was it that far of a reach for
a pilot?
Yeah, but as I said, you know,
I could very well be wrong.
We're all wrong, right?
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
Well, let's.
Let's talk about.
Let's finish up and let's talk
about how you got into being an Airbus
instructor, I do believe, correct?
Yes.
So we are talking about.
I'm guessing this is going
back to displaced, leaving, being
done with the wildlife flying
job, ultra low cost carrier, found
out the news, then you became
an instructor.
Or is it.
Okay, cool.
So that's the timeline.
Yeah.
Yep.
So figured out the medical
news, and believe it or not, you
know, I was making that series
of, you know, how to navigate a medical
deferral on TikTok, and
somebody reached out and they were
like, hey, we're looking for instructor.
Somebody just put a comment
and they were like, hey, we're looking
for instructors in the Airbus sim.
You know, shoot me an email
or, you know, shoot me a dm.
So I shot.
I was just like, what do I
have to lose?
You know, So I shot up a dm
and they were like, hey, you know,
here's my email.
Send me your resume.
All this jazz.
So I sent him my resume.
We had a, you know, phone
interview where I explained like,
hey, you know, I.
I've been teaching general
aviation for, you know, the entire
time I've been an instructor.
Yeah.
You know, I don't think I've
gone more than three months without
a student, except for now
because, you know, no medical.
But.
So they were like, well, let's
let's get you in the sim.
Let's see what you can do.
And you know, just make sure
you're not ridiculous.
And you know, I got in the sim
and kind of talked through and taught
through what I was doing.
And they were like, yeah, you
know, here's our training curriculum.
This is how we're going to
teach it.
And now I am teaching with.
I guess I'm teaching with Gulf
Coast Aeronautics Services.
So it's.
We rent our sims from afg.
So we're not affiliated with afg.
We just rent our sims from there.
And yeah, we teach seven three
type ratings.
I think technically there's
instructors that will teach DC 10
type ratings.
A just got our 320 type rating
course approved by the FAA.
That took.
They started on that around
the same time my medical got deferred.
So yeah, took about two years
to get their 320 type rating course
approved.
And you know, it's, it's.
We try to keep the classes small.
I think the most, most I do
for a single class, like in person
class is four students.
The goal is to learn, not to
check a box.
At least that's how I teach.
The goal is definitely to
learn how to safely operate an airliner.
I'm teaching the ATP CTP course.
So I'm, I'm the one that's
bridging that gap between what you've
been doing and where you're going.
Yeah.
Because as we were saying
earlier, there, there is a pretty
big gap between the Cessna 172
that you've been flying and now you're
hopping in a 320 or CRJ 200 or
175 or what have you.
And believe it or not, airline
instructors aren't flight instructors.
They're not CFIs.
Right.
So they never learned how to teach.
The amount of times I heard
the phrase, you know, again, I try
not to cuss, but this is a quote.
Just fly the plane.
Don't you know how to fly the plane?
While going through one of my,
you know, any of my three type ratings.
It's kind of alarming.
Um, but that's kind of what
the ATP CTP course is supposed to
be, is to bridge that gap so
that you have just that little grasp
of experience so that you
don't end up going, what's.
What's mock?
What do you mean?
What, what's mean?
Aerodynamic cord.
Yeah.
What's mock?
Yeah.
TUR turbine.
Isn't that that weird thing
that people put on their head?
Wind turbine.
But no.
So That's.
I know a lot of people look at
the ATP CTP course as this box that
they just have to check, but
it's not what it should be.
It should be bridging the gap
between where you're currently at
and the airlines, or at very
least a jet.
I will say my ATPCT course was
an absolute joke.
I watched air disaster movies
and we did the, we checked the boxes,
we made sure we checked every
FAA box and we had to do what we
had to do.
But a lot of time was filled
with watching air disasters from
an old DC9 guy that was just
telling us about the glory days.
No, no, I do my best to just,
to, as I keep saying, bridge that
gap.
You know, when we do see an
incident like, you know, we bring
up the Colgan incident because
that's kind of what the whole point,
the kind of the springboard
where the ATP CTP course kind of
came from.
But, you know, we bring up
that Colgan incident and a lot of
people look at it, they're
like, how did that happen?
What happened?
You know, they released the
back pressure.
Why didn't it recover from the stall?
And then we end up having a
conversation that explains, like,
hey, you know, this is what
you've been doing in your 172 or
your archer or what have you.
This is the differences
between what they were in and what
you're in.
And these are the things that
you're going to need to change to
ensure that you don't end up
like them.
Then we go in the sim and we
do full stalls in a 320.
It's, it's, it's violent, you
know, and then we.
What I try to do is try to
recreate a lot of these incidents
that they see so that they can
get that hands on experience.
You know, I, I put the sim in
the Air France incident where they
were getting ice on their
pitot tubes in a thunderstorm over
the ocean in the middle of the night.
And there's definitely,
there's more aha moments from the
students than when I went
through my ATP CTP course because
I, when I went through, I did
it in a Dreamliner sim.
No way.
I don't, I don't think I've
ever been in a Dreamliner as a passenger.
Yeah, right.
You know, I got to look at a hud.
I didn't know any of the stuff.
I was just like, ooh, pretty
green lights.
Yeah, I like that.
But no, I mean, it's, it's,
it's a good job I build my own schedule.
Good.
You know, and I show up and I
teach a couple students how to bridge
the gap between what they've
been doing and what they, what they're
wanting to do.
And a lot of the students are
actually military guys too, so there's
a, that there's.
Yeah.
Love it, man.
Is there.
Well, I guess I'll ask what's
next for, for CHEESE pilot?
Whether that's the Persona you
have on Instagram.
You personally kind of, what's
next in your path?
I mean, obviously we're
talking about the medical.
Let's say you get that back.
You had the decision go back
to the ultra low cost carrier.
You kind of mentioned that you
might not do that.
Are you trying to build a
successful business off CHEESE pilot?
Kind of talk about what you
got planned and what, what's going
on.
So the, I get my medical back,
I, I could, you know, the, the base
that I'm based at, it's pretty
close and I could, you know, at this
point I could bid reserve.
And this reserve doesn't suck
given that, you know, there's no
airport standby and whatnot.
Big difference.
Yeah, it's a big difference.
But I guess like, you know,
super short term goal, get my Lake
200 IFR capable again.
You know, I have a GPS sitting
on the shelf back there to go throw
in that.
But then, you know, a little
bit more long term.
I, I think I'm gonna go back
and give it a year at the ultra low
cost carrier to see how it is.
You know, when I talked to my
buddies, I went through the type
rating with, they're like,
this is the easiest flying job I've
ever had.
I absolutely love this.
They're gonna send me back to
the sim next month because I haven't
had enough landings in the
last 90 days to carry passengers.
Goals.
Yeah, absolute goals.
Yeah.
You know, so I'll give it a
year if it goes the way I want, you
know, then I'll, I'll, I'll,
I'll hang out.
You know, it's, it's, there's
nothing stopping me from continuing
to, to make content as an
Airbus pilot at an ultra low cost
carrier.
You know, especially since I'm
home every night.
This carrier, you know, gets
you home or at least back in base
every night.
You know, you look at geek on
the flight deck, you know, he's an
Airbus pilot or I guess
technically he's a, Is he a triple
seven pilot now?
Seven now, yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, he still makes
content, you know, you got flying
for a living.
There's nothing really
stopping there.
If I go the other way, you
know where I continue to try this
cheese pilot thing.
I mean, I'll still do the
cheese pilot thing, but if I continue
with trainingwithcheese.com
I'm hoping to just finish out the
video series I'm working on.
I'm working on an IFR training
series right now where we're covering
all the nav aids and you know,
resources and flight planning and
all that jazz for ifr because
I am seeing a huge gap again in the
content that's available in
the videos, the study material that's
available.
There's a lot of private pilot stuff.
There's a lot of how to do
steep turns, there's a lot of how
to do stalls and turns around
a point and whatnot.
Not a whole lot of ifr.
So definitely going to finish
that IFR series this Wednesday or
I guess I don't know when this
is going to come out, but a Wednesday,
whether it be in the past or
the future.
Yeah, there's an RNAV and GPS
video that's coming out.
So I think I'm going to
continue down that path whether or
not I go back to the ultra low
cost carrier or not.
I'm going to continue to pump
out educational videos in the gaps
that I see.
You know, I'm not going to
recreate steep turns.
I'm not going to recreate a
stalls or short field landing video.
There's a bunch of people out
there that have already done amazing
coverage on those.
I'm going to focus on the gaps
and go from there.
As one of the last question
I'll ask, but as someone who is entering
a space where they're, there's
some pretty good options, right?
Like, I mean I, I, Jason
Miller, I work with Jason Miller.
Chris Palmer is another really
good friend up in angle of attack
up in Alaska, you know,
everyone knows who Jason Shepard
is.
With M0A for people that make
content, is there anyone that you
kind of look up to?
Is anyone you model it after?
Obviously you have your own
spin to it.
CHEESE pilots, your own
person, you're doing your own thing.
But I guess even when you were
training, was there anyone that you
watched that kind of inspired
you to be like, you know, this is
an option eventually down the
road, you know, I.
Actually used to watch Roger
Victor's videos all the time.
That's hilarious.
The puppet.
What's up?
Yeah, the puppet, the puppet.
And it was, it was, it was so funny.
We did A, I actually did a
live with the puppet before I knew
who the puppet was and
straight up fangirled over the puppet,
but I know the puppet's not educational.
Yeah, I don't care about you.
I want the puppet.
Yeah.
But to be honest, you know, I
watched a lot of Jason Shepard stuff.
I liked the, how approachable
the Kings were, even, you know, with
how dated some of their, their
videos might seem.
They're super friendly and I
always try to keep that in the back
of my mind.
You know, these people are
successful because they're approachable,
because they're friendly,
because they want, because they genuinely
seem like they want to help
you through your experience, through
your training.
And I feel like that's where
I, I really, I feel like I definitely
try to take a lot from them
because again, they, they just seem
like the nicest dang people in
the world and that they genuinely
care on whether or not the
material that they're providing you
is going to set you up for success.
So, yeah, it probably just be them.
Yeah.
Well, cool, man.
Well, I appreciate your time.
Like I said, I wasn't
expecting, I had no idea about any
of that that's going on.
So one, I'm sorry that's
happening like just as a person to
person, that sucks.
Like, dealing with that is
tough and I, I hope that everything
goes the way that you want it
to go and I hope the outcome is great
and I hope that in six months
or hopefully sooner, you know, you'll
DM me and be like, hey, dude,
I got it back.
Like I'm going back and I'm
going to be so pumped for you, dude.
I don't know what I can do to
help, but if there's ever anything
that I can do to help, please
reach out, let me know.
I'm sure other people that
listen to this as well are going
to feel the same way and we'll
be following along and hoping for
a swift and quick decision and
hopefully seeing you flying whatever
it is you want to fly, whether
it's the Lake 200 or whether it's
ultra low cost carrier or just
doing your thing, you know, you've
carved out a cool little niche
for yourself and what you're doing
and I think it's great.
Uh, keep it up, man.
It's inspiring.
And I know that there's
student pilots that are watching
your content like a hawk and,
and watching those orals and I like
watching, I like when, when
they get stumped a little bit and
you're just.
Your face, you're like yeah,
no, that's not right.
But so keep it up man.
It's been cool to see.
So don't give up.
And you're killing it, dude.
I know some days will be
tougher than others.
Just remember you're doing
pretty cool stuff.
So.
So I'm happy for you.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
And I mean anybody who is, you
know, interested in helping pilots
mental health campaign, that,
that's really where I've been steering
people towards.
They are the ones that are
spearheading the, the.
The attempt at change.
So definitely reach out to
them, see what they need, see what
kind of resources they need.
If you are interested in being
kind of a resource for pilots to,
to reach out and talk to and whatnot.
Aeromed Legal is a.
Is another good nonprofit to
volunteer for.
Perfect.
Well cheese pie.
Thanks for coming on man.
I appreciate it.
Hope you have a good day.
You too.
See you, man.
AV Nation thank you so much
for listening to today's video.
I appreciate you taking the time.
A lot of people ask how they
can support the channel.
The number one thing is take
your dad's phone, subscribe to the
Pilot the Pilot podcast, take
your mom's phone, your sisters, who
knows?
And like I always say, maybe
they'll become a pilot so you have
another pilot to talk to and
nerd out about.
So Avnation.
I hope you're having a great day.
And as always, happy flying.
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