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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Welcome to
the grazing grass podcast episode 95
Track 1: pigs perform both in
the woods and on pasture and on
cover crops, but they have the
power to transform soil health.
Cal: You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, helping grass farmers learn from
grass farmers, and every episode features
a grass farmer and their operation.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: On
today's episode we have Rob
Dowdell of Dowdell Family Farms.
Located in Mississippi, Rob is a
pastor and a seventh generation farmer.
We discuss pasture poultry,
beef, cattle, and pigs.
With the overgrazing
topic covering honeybees.
There's a lot in today's episode
and I think you will enjoy it.
Before
we talk to Rob, 10 seconds about my farm.
We've been slightly warmer than
usual, and we've had plenty of water.
Fescue or cool season grasses are
starting to wake up in the pasture.
Seeing a little bit of growth,
which really excites me.
It's a little earlier, I think,
than normal, but I'm here for it.
Also, last week we talked about
the Grass Farmer Book Club.
We have one spot open for a guest
reader if you're interested in that.
Hop over to grassfarmerbookclub.
com and be our guest.
With those things said, let's talk to Rob.
Rob, we want to welcome you
to the Grazing Grass Podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
Track 1: Oh, I'm glad to be here,
Cal thanks so much for having me.
Um, enjoyed, uh, enjoyed listening to
the last few episodes of your podcast.
Uh.
It sounds like some really good
stuff y'all are doing, and I look
forward to hearing even more.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Well, thank you.
I appreciate that.
Rob, to get started, can you tell us
about yourself and your operation?
Track 1: Yeah.
I'm 40 years old.
Um, I grew up on the farm.
In fact, when I was in high school we had
a, uh, in elementary school my dad had a
beef feeder operation where he'd buy cows
in the fall, sell 'em the following fall.
Um, and, um, that's how.
I grew up farming.
Um, we rented some land and then we had of
course, land on our, our own farm as well.
Um, the farm has been in our family since
the original land grant in 1826 for sure.
We think it was 1824, but the
first time we actually have
records of paying taxes was 1826.
It's kind of an interesting thing.
Uh, so I'm the seventh.
My siblings and I are the seventh
generation, uh, on who have worked on
the farm, and my kids are the eighth,
and of course they're cousins as
well.
So it's, it's been, uh, a lot of fun.
When I graduated from high school
though, um, I went to college,
school, work and all, and actually
did not come back to the farm until,
moved back to the area in 2017.
Uh, and then started, um, uh, growing
vegetables and that kind of stuff, which
I had done, uh, when we lived in Georgia.
Had a small market garden, sold a few
restaurants, but really was just trying
to grow nutritious food for myself and my
family for some health related reasons.
And, um, when we moved back to the
farm, I started growing a garden.
But gardening, market gardening or
whatever is real, real labor intensive.
And as
labor intensive as livestock can be,
it is, uh, it's a whole different story
with, um, vegetables, but because of the
animal husbandry experience, um, I, you
know, we started off slowly with chickens,
which was a foolish endeavor on my part.
Um, but there really wasn't a plan.
I just wanted to have some chickens for
the eggs and then, um, jumped into pigs.
And since then I have been
hooked on, on raising pigs.
Uh, of course we still raise cattle.
My dad has a cow calf operation now.
That I help him with.
Uh, I finish out some of those steers
and, and all on grass, uh, and then
sell 'em to the local community as well.
Um, but yeah, that's the animal
husbandry part of it has been my
favorite part since I was knee high
to a short goat as I think Louie
lamour would've, would've,
said, uh, in some of his books.
I was, in fact, I castrated my first calf.
I don't think I was 10 yet, but by
the time I was 14, I was doing ut
most of the castration when we'd get
the calves coming in to the farm.
I mean, it's just, I, I loved the work.
My siblings didn't care for it
a whole lot, but I, I loved it.
And, um, it's, it's a lot of fun to me.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Uh, I
know when, when you say that your
siblings are, weren't big fans of it.
Both my siblings, um, when they got the
opportunity, they moved off the farm and
they've stayed as far away as they can.
In fairness, they do come
back and help once in a while.
I really think they use it as a photo
op, but they do, once in a while
they'll show up to, to do something.
One of mine, you talking about
castrating a calf early, it
made me think of something.
That happened early on.
My brother, he won't be happy I'm
sharing this, but I remember, I think
my brother was five and I was seven,
and dad wanted us to bring the pickup
out through a gate out to the barn for
some reason, I don't even remember why,
because we had beef cows, we had hogs,
we even had goats back then and chickens.
So, um, Steve got in the pickup and he was
driving it through the gate and he drove
the truck through the gate, but he didn't
get far enough over and he stripped all
the chrome off one side of the pickup.
I, I can remember that.
And I can remember, and, and
here's something a little bit
more shocking from that memory.
I remember my dad
handling it pretty calmly.
My dad is, is not always
the calmest person.
I remember him handling that
pretty calmly, which, uh, you,
you talking about early memories
that just brought that to mind
Track 1: Yeah,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: now.
When you got outta high school
and went to college, did you
plan on coming back to the farm?
Track 1: I did not, um, it,
never really was my intention.
Um, I so.
I'm a pastor by training.
In fact, I'm still a full-time
pastor now, and just part-time
farmer, if there is such a thing.
I don't think there's such a
thing as a part-time farmer or a
part-time pastor, no matter what
one's compensation is.
But, um, and so when I went to college,
then I went to seminary, then more
seminary, and then started working, um,
pastoring a church in South Georgia.
Um, and, and even when we were in
South Georgia, the funny thing, I,
there was a, a, a guy, um, I mean,
I'm talking about remote Georgia.
Um, there was a guy who was selling
grass, finished beef pastured
chickens and that kind of thing.
I'd go to his farm to help
him process chickens and I.
We purchased whole beef
from him and eggs as well.
And I say that to say this,
that it's, it, it really wasn't
quite my intention to come back.
But even when I was in Georgia pastoring,
I still really in, came back to that,
that agricultural type, um, work.
I just
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh
Track 1: enjoy messing with livestock.
Now, don't get me wrong, I
don't particularly enjoy, you
know, processing the animals.
I, I don't get a thrill out of it.
I recognize the
value in it, but I, do enjoy
that animal husbandry.
And so, but when we, when we left
Georgia, in fact the church there,
there was no, there were no conflict.
We were there eight years.
Um, the main reason we came back
home was for a lifestyle change.
And also because our, our kids.
At the time were, were one, three, or
four and seven or eight, and both are
both sets of their grandparents live in
Mississippi, um, about 140 miles apart.
Uh, both of them are healthy and we just
wanted our kids to be closer to family.
We
wanted, uh, um, the opportunity
to have lifestyle changes, um,
and, and intentionally came back
to the farm for those reasons.
Um, but you know, I, I never really had
a plan until a couple years or a year
maybe or so before we actually did it.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh, yes.
And one of the first things you, you did
the, the garden and then you got poultry.
I assume poultry.
Poultry has a low level or low bar of
entry, you know, um, you can get chickens
pretty easy and they're, they're kind of
the gateway animal for so many people.
How did that journey go for you?
Um, were you doing pasture poultry, or
were you having them in a chicken coop?
How did you manage them?
Track 1: We had pastured poultry.
And to be honest with you,
it was just a debacle.
This may be a tad controversial,
but poultry is one of those things
that's great for you to have
a dozen or so in your backyard
where you can manage 'em well.
Uh, I think it would be worthwhile, and
this is especially true with egg layers.
Not necessarily meat
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: but, but, or have several
hundred, I would dare say even
maybe several thousand, you
know, on a much larger scale.
But the.
The time and energy and effort
for a couple hundred trying to,
to move them around the pasture
to keep them safe and protected.
Um, I mean, we spent so much
time and energy, we were selling
our eggs for five or $6 a dozen.
Sometimes they'd sell,
sometimes they wouldn't.
We had 'em priced based on,
you know, our input costs.
But because of the scale, the
overhead, particularly in labor,
it was just, uh, a lot of work.
Um, I got out of the egg layers and, and
kept doing some meat chickens for a year.
And we had some, some folks lived in
the area, they've since moved away,
but one of them asked me, why are
you getting rid of the egg layers?
They're such good eggs.
I'm like, they're great eggs.
But from a profitability standpoint,
you know, we're spending hours,
you're doing half the work and
you're not even getting paid.
And that's.
That's fine.
But from a profitability standpoint,
with meat chickens in the same kinda coop
design, I could raise those meat chickens
for six, seven weeks in that same coop.
Not, not same coop, but
that, that mobile pen that I
was using and produce more profit from
that one group of meat birds in one year
in, in that six or seven week period
than I could for all the egg layers
in
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh
Track 1: on the farm, you
know, uh, in a whole year.
And, and it's a quick
return on investment.
It's, you don't keep product, you don't
have to keep selling small batches of
eggs, you know, to people here and there.
It's a good business plan, but
it's in terms of predators, in
terms of so many other things,
you've gotta really be dialed in.
Um, and I think it's best to be
on the farm at least twice a day.
And even though we're living five
miles away for a far time farmer,
it's just not, it just wasn't
worth the hassle for me anyway.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Growing up on a
dairy, we, we started dairying when I was.
I get 13.
We moved out and started dairying
with my grandparents, and then
we built our own dairy, uh, two
miles down the road from our house.
And it's only two miles
or only was two miles.
But that makes all the difference on just
getting out there and doing a few chores.
Uh, I have to admit, the properties I
have leased, that's a few miles from me.
I don't make over as quickly
as I do the ones right
here at the place.
It's, it's just the nature of it.
So I get that where just a few
miles away makes a big difference.
Were you growing Cornish crosses or
we're using a slow growing breed?
Track 1: Hmm.
Um, this is where I
multiplied my foolishness.
I dare say stupidity.
What I was doing was stupid.
Not that other people are are doing it.
Um, I used a, a more of a
heritage, uh, breed of oor.
Um, mostly
black oor, but they're
blue oor and all as well.
And so, and I was breeding them and I did
sell some, some breeding, uh, stock of the
oor and, and worked well, shipped them,
uh, you know, we had the certification
from the state that we were, uh,
salmonella free or whatever, and
had our birds tested for that.
Um.
And so I sold hatching
eggs and many other things.
Um, but you know, when you're
breathing birds, you get roughly
half males and half females and
you gotta do something with 'em.
Uh, and if they're egg layers,
the males don't lay eggs nearly
as well as the females do.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: They, they don't,
Track 1: And
so,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920:
not figured that one out.
Track 1: so for those, the males I
would raise until they were about
20 weeks old, we'd get about a two
pound carcass when I processed those.
And those were mostly for our family,
and it was great tasting meat.
It's just expensive is
all get out for what you
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: Um, but for most of our
sales we did a Cornish Cross.
I've tried a few of the
Freedom Rangers and those
other kind of hybrid type meat
birds and I was not particularly
impressed with any of them.
Um, but a large part of that is, you know,
when you're in the farm and you're not.
When you're there every day, maybe
even twice a day for a little while.
But, you know, keeping the predators
at bay, even when they're, when they're
in a well-built pen, not a pen with
chicken wire, but even in a well built
pen, it, it's that you move every day.
It's just a good bit.
Well work, you can still get
raccoons, stick their arms through the
you know,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: welded, well woven wire.
You can still get, um, raccoons
actually sticking their
hands up underneath the pen.
And so it's, it, it just, we, we kept
having some issues with predators.
Um, and um, I re quickly realized
that I was not doing the chickens.
Well.
We had already gotten pigs.
We'd had pigs for a year
or so at that point.
And that's when I realized that
pastured pigs was, um, for me
anyway, by far the way to go.
Um.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: And And
why did you choose to get into pigs?
Track 1: Because I'm,
again, because I'm foolish.
Uh, no.
Um, the first pigs we got were
American Guinea hogs, and I,
there's some story, and I,
I don't quite remember it.
They, they were there, we had four
of them and they were great pigs.
We processed 'em for ourselves.
Um, but I, I'm not really sure what
first attracted me to, to getting pigs.
Those American Guinea hogs we got, it
was kind of a, I think somebody dropped
'em off at the farm or something.
I, I don't remember the whole, the whole,
story there.
We've had so many animals
dropped off the farm.
It's not even funny.
But, um, and so I, I
really enjoyed having them.
Um, but then, you know, so
we got some actual meat.
Type pigs, you know,
the Chester Whites ox,
um, Herefords and, and those, and of
course they perform so much differently.
Um, I would dare say even better.
And, you know, pigs are,
man, they're so lively.
They're so much fun.
I mean, they, they have a lot
of fun chickens, you know?
Yeah.
You see 'em out there scratching
and they look nice and they look
great, and maybe you can pet 'em.
But pigs, I mean, they just have so
much more personality and they're
so, they're such a great livestock.
It's, it's really hard to articulate
the, the joy that pigs bring and the life
pigs bring to a farm when they're happy.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: We had
pigs when I was a little kid.
Um, so I'm talking the.
The mid seventies to late
seventies, maybe, maybe even into
the early eighties a little bit.
But I know pigs went
dropped really in price.
And, um, dad sold out and
we were rid of all the pigs.
And then in high school, going through ag
and stuff, FFAI, I raised a few pigs then.
Not necessarily for show, but I
raised a few then and got out of it.
I love pigs and I talk
about it with my wife.
Um, I wouldn't mind getting a few to
raise, but then when I start penciling
it out, I'm creating more another job for
me and I don't really need another job.
And it, pigs are so cheap at the
sale barn, so it just, just drives
me crazy that the, the on the
farm, small farm or raising some
hogs is not like it used to be.
Track 1: No, if, if you're in
a commercial market, it's, I
don't think there's any way to.
Compete unless you're raising
them really large scale in a barn.
In fact, we've
got a, and even then it's in incredibly
difficult to do if you're doing
it independently at a Mississippi pa in
a Mississippi Pork Producers meeting.
Um, I think it was almost
three years ago now.
I met a guy who, uh, is
doing it independently.
Um, prestige Farms typically
raises them here in Mississippi.
They've got the, the market
for the commercial stuff here.
Um, but the, the independent producer
in North Mississippi, he had at the
time, 35 to 40 South Fair to finish
operation, which if you're not familiar,
I mean, you're, you're talking about
each sow produces 10 piglets, you
know, two and a half times a year.
So it, it's very easy to see.
I mean, he's raising several
thousand hogs a year,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: and he's selling them
independently, but he's got.
Just a very, very niche
market that he's selling to.
Not, not niche in terms of pastured
pork, but but niche in terms of, there's
a a, a place that he was selling 'em to
that does some sausage hogs that raises
real particular types of, of sausage here.
Um, and they would give him a
little bit of a premium, but he
was still raising his pigs cheaper.
Uh, he was selling his pigs cheaper
than I could have mine processed.
I
mean, it was, it was ridiculous.
I mean, his cost and my cost were so
much different in large part because he
was mixing and grinding his own feed.
But he was, he was just doing
it on a very different scale.
Um, but he was competing
with that kind of of market.
And for us, you know, our.
My market is I'm doing direct to
consumer sales, both with our pork,
with our beef, and with, we've also got
honeybees, if I hadn't mentioned that yet.
And so we're doing direct to market
sales, whether we sell whole or
half pigs for someone to purchase,
we take 'em to the processor, you
know, they pay us for the pigs, they
pay the processor for
the processing and all.
Uh, and then we, we do do
some sales of retail cuts.
Um, we've had some production issues
with pigs over the last couple years.
That's a whole nother story,
uh, with some goofy breeds.
But all that to say, you know, unless
you're doing it for a couple pigs for your
own family, that's a really good thing.
Or unless you're, you're trying to
do, um, kind of a direct to consumer
sales, it's really hard with beef, uh,
regenerative farms can, can compete.
Fairly well, even in a conventional
market, um, with pasture based
systems, because most be, you know,
most cows are sold to the, you
know, through the sale barns anyway.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Right.
Track 1: But with pigs, unless you
have that, that direct consumer to
sales, it's, it's really difficult.
And direct selling, um, anything,
uh, is, is really, really hard.
Unless you have a product that
people just get excited about.
Honey, for example, people get excited
about and they'll buy a local honey
because you don't even have to, you
don't even have to advertise it.
You can just, when people find
out, they start begging you for it.
But with beef and pork,
that's a whole, that's a whole
different story, especially
because it's more expensive.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Yes.
Yeah.
Now with your pork and getting started
with your pigs, uh, what was your
management philosophy when you got 'em?
I know you started with those
Guinea hogs, but then you moved on
to some more traditional breeds.
Track 1: yeah, so I started with the
Guinea hogs, moved to traditional breeds,
moved to more lard, hogs, and now I'm
back with more traditional breeds.
And that, that cycle in and of itself is
a, a, the Guinea hogs just got me started.
The meat was great.
Um, but you've got a, a hog that takes 18
months to get the processing weight of 150
pounds.
It's a l breed, not quite like you get
with a potbellied pig, but, um, requires
a good bit of feed, uh, even if they do
forage better, which I'm not sure that
they do, but that's another argument
for another day.
And even if you only feed.
Even if you only feed a lard pig,
one pound of a grain ration per day,
whereas with a meat pig, you feed 'em an
average of five pounds of grain per day.
If you stretch that lard pig
out to two years, they don't.
And there's, they're not gonna perform
that well with even one pound of grain.
But you're not, it, it, it just,
you're not saving the feed cost
that I assumed that you would save.
Um, we tried those, the meat pigs and
I was getting 'em, they were show pigs
from a guy, um, that grew up with my wife
actually, um, near where my in-laws live.
And, um, they were Coles from his show
pig, he was breeding show pigs and so
they were pigs that didn't have quite
the right coloring for Herefords.
We had, uh, we got one,
um, Hampshire that.
Kept jumping out of his pens in the barns.
He was ready to call him and he
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: Um, but they just didn't quite,
for whatever reason, you know, the, the
coloring for the Hereford he had too.
One of, you know, they may have too
much white on their face or body.
Um, you know, just that kind stuff.
And, um, that's what we started off.
And those, we performed well, we
sold those and, you know, we'd raise
eight or 10 at a time, four or six
at a time, whatever we could get.
And we sold those to individuals
and we did well with them.
But I had a problem getting
pigs when we needed them.
And
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: um, I'd heard about these
mangoes, uh, you know, one of your
recent podcasts I was listening to
was talking about somebody, uh, I
can't remember the gentleman's name.
That was, um, raising, um, Wagyu
crosses with, um, I think Devin.
I, I don't quite remember
the exact details there, but
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
He's doing Devon and Wagyu crosses.
Track 1: Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and
so, so people call mango pigs the wagyu
of pork, and I'm not even gonna comment
on that, but it may be the wagyu of pork.
But when you've got a pig that instead
of taking six months to processing takes,
uh, I've got two left from our first
farrowing that was over two years ago.
I've got per Berkshire Duro
crosses that were born in August,
no September of this past year.
And those Berkshires are already bigger
than the mangoes that are two years old.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh wow.
Track 1: And on top of that, when you
have, you know, a l pig that's 70% fat
and 30% meat versus a meat pig that you
raise to 300 pounds or so, maybe 70%
meat and 30% fat customers, customers
don't wanna pay, you know, a thousand
dollars by the time they have it processed
and whatever for a 70% fat product.
It just, they don't, I, I
couldn't justify selling 'em.
So anyway, we
got rid of the, also because of
some temperament issues and pigs
jumping through fences, that,
that's a whole another story.
Um, but so, so this past April we've, uh,
so a year, a little over a year ago now,
we, we acquired these Berkshires um, they
have done, they've performed really well.
Um, I.
Really good forger.
Uh, some of them are better mothers
than others, and so we're kind of
cuing through our breeding stock now.
Um, so, but that's, that's kind of
the, a brief rollercoaster ride of,
of how we've gotten to, um, to kind
of settled on our, our meat pigs now.
Um,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920:
And that brings up
Track 1: yeah.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: with when, so
when I talk to my wife about getting
bigs, you know, I'm thinking I'll,
I'll get a couple, maybe three or four.
Uh, my wife says, always jump
in the deep end of the pool.
So, so when I think about one, it's
always multiples of that, you know.
Uh, so one or two, it'd
probably be five or six.
Anyway.
So my goal is to, to put one
to deep freeze for us and
then try selling some others.
And I read these things about,
about the mangoes and the, um,
Guinea hogs and the coy coy pigs.
They sound interesting to me,
but I've told her I just don't, I
just don't know about it because
they're all that lard type.
So it's really interesting to hear
that perspective of you going through
that journey and using some traditional
breeds and using some lard types and
figuring out what works for your market.
Um, so
I appreciate that insight.
Track 1: there, there's
some detailed there.
There's a, I mean, and this isn't
really the place for it, but there,
I, I think there are particular niche
markets for coy Cooney, Idaho, pastured
pigs, um, mangoes, uh, mulefoot, um,
American Guinea hogs that.
That can perform pretty well.
The, the problem is for someone who
has never raised pigs, and then to
go buy a $200 or a hundred dollars
feeder pig, that's a cuy cooney,
typically they're gonna be more.
Um,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Right.
Track 1: but to spend a couple
hundred dollars on something that's
gonna take, now some people say coy
can get, can grow quicker than, you
know, 12 or 14 months, that's fine.
But even if it takes 12 months,
um, it, until you have experience
with the standard livestock, I
don't think you can really fully
appreciate the specialty stuff.
Um, I, I've got a, a friend who, or a
couple people have asked me actually
if we'd ever considered raising
Wagyu cattle and understand I, we
grew up raising cattle my entire.
I mean, from the time I was
three, my dad, or one, my dad
changed my diapers on the farm.
'cause I wanted to go to the farm
with him in the cold, cold weather.
But the problem with that, in my mind,
raising, especially for retail sales,
anybody can raise and manage cattle
and sell 'em to a, you know, through
the, the, uh, conventional market.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Right.
Track 1: I, I've been raising grass.
I've been finishing cattle now for
six years and I'm still in my, in
the infancy stages of learning how
to really, really finish an animal.
And we raise some animals on,
we, I finish every couple years.
I, I'll finish some.
Beef on grain just because, uh, one
customer, uh, and some of his friends,
they've had so much bad experience
from people finishing grass fed cattle
that didn't know what they were doing.
I mean, they spent two or $3,000,
three different times for garbage
meat because the people didn't know
what finished animals really were.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: oh yeah.
Track 1: and I don't, I, I really
prefer not to finish 'em on, on
grain, but that's a, a whole nother
story for a whole nother day.
But my, my point is, like this past
year we didn't produce any grassed
finished beef because, uh, we
didn't have the forage available.
Um, because of some drought, also, in part
because of some health issues on my part.
But we didn't have the forage available
to have a really good finished animal.
When it comes to grass finishing
beef, for example, I, I'm still in
my infancy stages of learning how
to finish an animal that you can buy
for a thousand dollars at a sale barn
to try to finish a $5,000 animal.
You see what I'm saying?
And, and get
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Right.
Yeah.
Track 1: of it when I'm still
learning how to do it well.
Uh, there's, there's no point
and, and it's not quite a,
a apple to apple comparison.
Maybe an apple to pair comparison
with pigs, but until you get a good
idea in terms of management, in
terms of how fast they grow with
pigs, pigs are much easier to finish.
It's a much easier animal to get a
finished product out of than beef because
they're mono gastrics and, and the green.
But it's really hard to appreciate.
The value of, of like a cuny
CUNY and to compare with other,
with your customers until you
know what a standard meat pig is.
And if, and if you were to get a
mango Leeza and try to feed it out to
six months, you could, you could get
it to 250 pounds, but you're gonna
have 80% fat and the pork chops are
gonna be the size of a half dollar,
not, not what you're expecting.
And
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh
Track 1: know, you're just
gonna have a ball of lard.
And so that, that's, anyway, that,
that's, that, that's a little bit
of a, that tirade that I, I probably
ought keep my mouth quiet about.
But it's, it's just, you know, it's,
it, it, it's understanding.
I think what my philosophy is, let's get
to the standard and then deviate from
that as I learn kind of how to raise the
standard breeds and how valuable they are.
Um, that's, that's I think.
My best flight approach,
uh, for me anyway.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: And, and
I, I see that because also you're,
you're working with, if you're working
with the commercial breeds or more
standardized breeds, you're, you're
dealing with a lower cost animal.
You're dealing with a exit strategy.
You know, one thing in real
estate, they always talk about
multiple exit strategies.
So I'm gonna rehab this house, or.
Um, renovate this house.
What's my exit strategy?
Do I, Do I, go in the bank and I
refinance it and I rent it out?
Do I sell it?
Do I turn into a short term rental,
medium term, multiple exit strategies.
If you go too specialized on your
livestock, that's expensive, and
there's not a market through
conventional channels, then you
don't have an exit strategy.
But to finish out the
project you were started on,
Track 1: My exit strategy for the Mango
elites is to follow up with your point,
when they started jumping through
fences and wound up at a neighbor's
farm a mile down the road in an hour
and a half, I pulled up with a 22
rifle, and that was my exit strategy.
He managed to, to catch 'em,
and I got a livestock trailer,
but for, you know, eight months.
Um, I kept the, the, those mangoes in a
tight pen that they could not get out of.
And I processed them and we had barbecues.
I gave away pork, I did everything.
I couldn't justify selling them
because why would you want to pay
even a hundred dollars for an animal?
So we had a lot of church barbecues.
We
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: I gave it a lot of meat
away and I stocked our freezer
with a lot of ground pork.
Actually, it's mostly gone.
We ate it at the time,
but, um, and so I lost.
A lot of money.
I I, I don't even want to count
how much money I lost on those
mangoes just because, um, of the
slow growth rate specialty breed.
It, it's, it's ridiculous.
It really was.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: But the thing
you have to remember, education's
not free and you learned a lot.
Track 1: I learned a lot.
I learned a lot.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Yeah.
So when we talk about your, your pigs,
tell us about your infrastructure
and how you, how you have your
farm set up to manage your hogs.
Track 1: Well, one thing I learned, uh,
probably the most valuable lesson, if you
are going to Pharaoh pigs on your farm,
and if you're gonna have a boar, keep
the boar and the pigs that you do not
want bread a long way from each other.
Um, doesn't matter what
kind of fencing you have.
You know, we've done electric
fencing with a cow since I was a kid.
Uh, a boar will jump through a 10,000
volt electric fence to breed, uh, 17
gilts, and then you will have a mango,
a boar wheel anyway, and then you'll
have 200 piglets rather than, um, with
gilts that don't even know how to take
care of 'em that weren't even breeders.
Um,
I learned that one the hard way.
Um, but
so our, our, our farm
is roughly 300 acres.
I say our farm, it's my dad's land,
but, um, the farm is roughly 300
acres, but it's the way it, it
kind of weaves around the town.
It, there's about a mile apart from
one end of the farm to the other.
So our breeder pigs are on one side
and that once we wean the pigs,
I take 'em all to the other side.
Uh, we do castrate the, the little boings.
Um, so they don't breed their
sisters and don't have to deal with
boar taint and some of that kind of stuff.
So the infrastructure we use
is, uh, electric fencing.
Um, the netting, you know, uh, people
get excited about electric netting.
Uh, and it, it works, but
it's just labor intensive.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh,
it is, I agree.
Track 1: and, you know, it's also
outrageously expensive and it's
hard to keep voltage high on,
on netting with grass and stuff.
It's just, um, so I use, uh, we train our
pigs to high tensile electric fencing.
Um, it works
well.
Most of the time.
I can keep our pigs in with
a single strand of poly wire.
Um.
But I try to, I've been designing our
paddocks and slowly increasing the
infrastructure so that we keep, um,
two strand electric, high tensile,
electric fencing, 12 and a half
gauge wire, uh, for our paddocks.
And then if I want to, I can
use, you know, short, um,
stretches of, of Polywire.
Um, you know, to limit a
little bit further the, the
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: of our pigs, like right
now, um, I try to keep one acre
size paddocks in our field.
Sometimes it's two acres, and
that'll work really well for a
group of 50 pigs for a week or two.
I try my best to use the high
tensile electric fence and then
supplement with the poly wire or poly
braid, poly tape, you know, any of
that that simple stuff that's not,
that's not the electric netting.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Yes.
Now when you, so you mentioned
one acre there and 50 pigs or so,
but so one acre, you have them
on there and then you move them.
When you move them.
What's that one acre look like?
Track 1: It depends on
the time of the year.
It, it depends on so many factors.
So let me back up for a second.
So one, we'll have, like right
now I've got my feeder pig, all
our pigs in, in a wooded lots.
So, um, my feeder pigs,
there's 21 of 'em or so, 22.
Um, and they are in a
four acre wooded lot.
I just, it's hard, it's really
hard to subdivide woods without.
Anyway, that's a lot of work.
But, um, and so they're there for
another week or so, but where I'm,
I'm pretty intentional about in
our pasture fields of growing.
Cover crops specifically for
pigs to consume, um, cows because
they're ruminants, sheep and goats.
Yes, they all have their nuances
of what they graze and what
they, how well they perform.
But pigs, I don't mean this to sound
as flip it 'cause you do have to be
intentional about nutritious forages
for cows, but cows, you know, you
can put 'em on a mediocre grass and
they'll, they'll perform pretty well.
They may not do outstanding,
but they'll perform okay.
Pigs, you can put 'em on an outstanding
grass and unless you're giving them their
full grain ration, they'll eat the grass.
They just don't perform well on it.
So we're growing things like buckwheat,
brass, uh, cow peas, uh, more
nutritious cover crops for the pigs.
Uh, we keep sorghum sedan
grass like in the summer.
Um.
We got cool season and warm season
mixes, and so very intentional
about grazing those and it and it
all, when we move the pigs on and
off, it depends on the weather.
Like in, we we're in the season of
mud here, most people have snow and
ice and we have mud in Mississippi.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Yeah.
Track 1: Um, but Right.
You know, it's gonna be a
muddy mess anywhere you put the
pigs, it, it doesn't matter.
In the woods it's
not quite as bad.
But, um, in, in our fields, um, like with,
with our cover crops, if we're trying to
maximize the nutrition, there'll be the
sorghum sedan grass in our warm season
cover crop mix will still be standing.
Um, they'll eat a lot of it, but
they'll, they graze the buckwheat,
whatever brass have grown.
If there are any that have grown the
cow peas, uh, and some of those others,
and then they move to the sorghum sedan
grass and they'll eventually eat the
sorghum sedan grass to the ground.
But.
They're new.
You, you've, you've got to, if
we're trying to minimize the grain,
we've gotta move them quicker.
Um, so you'll have the sorghum
sedan, grass that's still kind of
sporadic and it regrows really well.
Um, our warm season crop mix when the
buckwheat, like, if it's already gone
to seed, when we move the pigs off
of it, the buckwheat regrows, it's,
it's, it's crazy.
Uh, it, it, it grows from seed buckwheat.
Once it's grazed at any stage is
it doesn't really regrow very well.
Sometimes it does, but
it typically doesn't.
But if it's gone to seed, it'll, it'll
regrow The sorghum sedan grass, of course
regrows not from seed, but from, you know,
its, its roots, um, cow peas and that kind
of stuff, some of 'em regrow decently.
Um, and so depending on our goal,
if we're trying to get the pigs to.
Kind of terminate the cover crop mix,
uh, so that we can plant something else.
Like if it's August and we want to
plant our cool season cover crop mix,
we'll leave the pigs on there a little
bit longer and they'll root, they will
make, I mean, they'll root everything
up and it looks like a moonscape.
Um,
there are, um, typically I don't do
that very much 'cause I found that
I can plant a little bit easier.
Um, you know, our, our warm season crops,
I mean our fall cover crops, I've, I've
found that if there's, like, if the
sorghum standard, if there's still some,
some, uh, fort not, uh, plant matter
that I can just broadcast the seed and
it'll, it'll kind of regrow from itself.
But, so I've stumbled around a lot
to answer that question, but the
short of it is, depending on how
they're managed, um, it can look like.
Um, a sporadic moonscape with some
plants there, or it can look like
it's been completely annihilated.
And, um, look, uh, really
it can look like the moon.
Um, but I try to move
'em a little bit faster.
Um, primarily not 'cause I'm trying
to save the soil, but because I'm
trying to, to maximize the nutrition
that the pigs get from those cover
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
And then you mentioned a fair number of of
different plants you're putting in there.
And if I understood you right,
you're just broadcasting those
Track 1: sometimes,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: sometimes?
Yeah.
Track 1: our historically our warm
season cover crop mix, I have disked in.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh,
Track 1: just acquired a, a no-till drill.
That's a whole nother story
for a whole nother day.
Um, but.
We've taken a lot of really
worn out pasture that has not
performed well historically.
Um, and sorghum sedan grass is by far the
single best, uh, soil improvement tool.
Um, I think that you can find it, it, uh,
especially in our clay soils hot weather,
you know, in, in the warm season, we can
get three or four growths without really
any, uh, synthetic, um, fertilizers.
Um, it's better razed with cows.
They perform outstandingly on it.
But, um, you know, to get a good stand
of it and for it to perform well,
we've just had to disc up the soil, um,
and then broadcast it
and lightly disk over it.
Now, the second after we remove.
After we've grown cover crops
in an area before like that, the
planting is much, much easier.
And I think, we'll, we'll
be able to do this sorghum.
I think we'll be able to plant our
warm season cover crops with this
kind of cheaper, no-till drill.
Um, it's a little six foot, uh,
drill from LMC Ag, but pulled
behind a 40 horsepower tractor.
So it's not,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh
Track 1: it, it's, it's, a real, real
small, small drill, uh, six foot wide.
But with that circum grass as we
dis it in, but what I'm finding is
if we have like planting our fall
stuff, nebraska's the buckwheat, um.
Austrian winter peas, um, cereal
rye, oats, that kind of stuff.
If we have soil moisture in August
and September, what I found is I
can broadcast the seed and then
fla mow the, the, um, whatever's
left of the sorghum sedan grass.
If there's about six
inches of growth on it.
It just forms a little mulch over
the seed and when it gets, when
we get a little bit of rain or
whatever, um, it provides just enough.
Of a growing environment for those
crops to, to sprout on their own.
I really do not like disking in crops
at all, but it's, um, you know, even
that little inch and a half of the soil
surface that we disturb to do that,
I, I prefer to avoid it when I can.
Um, buckwheat, we can broadcast and if we
get soil moisture and if there's a little
plant litter on the ground, it, it grows.
You know, we can get three crops of
buckwheat a lot of times if we have
enough moisture because it flowers
in 30 days and goes to seed in 45,
60, 70 days and it can, you know,
regrow, uh, really, really nutritious
for all livestock, but especially for
pigs, it has a higher lysine content.
Um, so we have a lot of
diverse ways that we plant.
Um, and you know, when you're only
growing 20 acres, shoot, even for our
300 acres, we can't justify $60,000.
10 foot pasture, no-till drill that
I priced, I priced one.
It's $60,000.
And, and a row crop farmer
can justify that kind of cost.
Um, not because there's so much profit,
but just because there's so much scale.
But for us,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yeah.
Track 1: um, you know, 30
cows that they're, it is not
gonna bring that much revenue.
Even if you're finishing all those
livestock out, it's you, you can't
justify that kind of expense, uh,
if you're trying to be anywhere
close to a profitable enterprise.
Um, and so that's been a,
a pretty big struggle, but
it's been effective, I think.
Um, we'll see how that,
how that goes though.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Yeah.
I would love to have a no drill till
drill, but I price them and so I'm,
you know, you get a price on those.
There's no way it pencils out for me.
Um, so I'm hopeful One day I'll find
a worn out one that I can go through
and repair, but even, even doing that,
I want it for about a hundred dollars.
So I may
be waiting quite a while.
Track 1: and that's the thing, um, I
think for people who have more experience
with equipment, uh, I mean, I, I've got
a lot of experience with heavy equipment,
but from my days roofing while I was
in college to, you know, but those, but
operating a crane in a bulldozer in large
track loaders is very, very different,
uh, than figuring out how
to use a no-till drill.
That that's a real specialized
equipment that, uh, you know,
um, is, is very different.
The, um, uh, the, there are
some for smaller acreages, you
know, that they market for, um.
That are
marketed towards deer plots and stuff.
And that's actually what
this one is marketed for.
Um, and they can be some, you know,
they range in price from seven or
$8,000 to, you know, I think, um,
Kubota's, uh, they use a great plains.
They market their land pride when it's,
I think it's made by Great Plains.
They're basically the same machine,
but, you know, those are $16,000
for a six foot, no-till drill.
And it's just,
it, it's incredibly difficult.
I think the benefit from pigs, you
know, with cows you may get better
for, uh, better performance, uh, on
smaller acreage, particularly, uh,
especially if you're finishing them out
on, on grass, on cover crops, you'll
get much better performance by growing
like a sorghum sedan, grass hybrid
pearl mullet for the warm season.
Cool season,
you know, there's some other things and,
and yes, you can even save money and, and.
Eventually save money on hay and that kind
of thing by having more standing forages.
For pigs though, where it really
benefits is when you're, because
they're monogastric, you know, they,
they need grain or really they need
some kind of meat, but we try to raise
'em as vegetarians because of the,
you know, health reasons, trichinosis
and others.
But, but with mono, you know, so,
so you're raising 'em on grain.
Um, when you pay 400 something dollars a
ton for a swine feed, and each pig eats
half a ton or a little bit more, for me,
this, this drill will pay for itself.
And just in our pig operation, we'll
end up paying for itself because it's
so, you know, when you're raising a
hundred pigs a year, not to mention your
breeding pigs, but when you're raising
a hundred pigs a year, that's, you know.
Uh, 50,000 pounds of grain,
25 tons of feed at eight.
Oh, man, that, that's a scary thought.
I wish I hadn't thought about that.
At $4 a ton, 25 tons is $10,000.
Well, I, I'm, sometimes I can do math
in my head and sometimes I can't.
But it, you know, that's $10,000.
Well, when you start talking about
a $7,000 drill, okay, it's not
gonna be as good a drill as that
$60,000, 10 foot pasture drill from
John Deere, but at the same time.
You know, I spent, I spent just with my
small tractor, I spent several hundred
dollars in fuel disking over the ground
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh
Track 1: I started planting.
Again, it's a larger tractor with a
bigger di disk would not have used
nearly as much fuel, more fuel per hour,
but it would've done it much faster.
But my point is the cost savings
are so, so great because the
investment in, in grain with pigs
that you don't have with cows,
it it, there, there are significant
cost savings and growing cover
crops that also help improve,
improve the soil dramatically.
Um, the benefit that
sorghum sedan grass does.
Not only for livestock feed, for ruminants
particularly, but to improve soil health,
sequester carbon to increase soil.
Organic matter is absolutely outstanding.
I mean, until, until someone grows it, it
it, it'll blow, it'll blow your mind at
how effectively, um, it can improve soil
health, even just in one or two seasons.
It is, um, it is amazing.
And so, and in the meantime,
you're feeding livestock,
you know, while growing it.
So it's, it's a, it's a win-win it,
unfortunately, it's not quite as
nutritious for pigs as it is for cows.
Um, but in a mix, it, the
pigs do eat some of it, and
you know it.
and it really helps too.
So, um, but yeah, so the planning,
we've, we've had tried a variety
of different ways and we'll see how
this no-till drill works out as well,
but,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: it works.
Works well for you, Rob.
It's time we transition to
our overgrazing section.
It's where we take a little bit deeper
dive into something, and we're not gonna
take a super deep dive, but I wanted to
cover honeybees just for a few minutes.
Um, why did you get honeybees?
Where do they fit into your
overall plan for your farm?
Track 1: Uh, I would
probably go back to that.
I'm an, I'm not always the
brightest crayon in the box.
Um, I, so actually when we, when we
moved back to, to Mississippi, we
had a rental house for almost a year.
And then, um, we've bought the house
we're living in now and the lady that
was there had honeybees and, um, she
also had three chickens, three hens.
Uh, that was when we had hens.
Um.
But she's, she was moving back
to Washington state or Oregon, I
don't remember where exactly, but
somewhere in the, the northwest.
And, um, wanted to leave her honeybees
and the chickens, and I wondered
honeybees, so, you know, um, jumped in and
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920:
There's your opportunity.
Track 1: And, and I really like honeybees.
They're, it's a really fascinating animal.
But they're, um, they're so, so very
different from any other livestock.
Um, of course everybody loves honey.
I think the thing, one of the
things I like about farming is it's,
you're always learning new things.
You're always figuring something out.
You're never doing the
same thing over and over.
And that's, that's one of
the things about honeybees.
It's such a different animal.
I mean, going from pigs to cows or
chickens or whatever, okay, you feed it,
you water it, you move on down the road.
Yeah, there's nuances for each
animal, but, but honeybees, it's,
that's like you're on a whole
nother planet almost in terms of how
they operate.
Um, and so I, uh, I've
really enjoyed them.
They're, um,
it, it's easy to get started in.
It's easy to get hooked in.
And the thing about honeybees is,
you know, for the most part, they can
be left alone for months at a time.
Without having
to be managed, you know, whereas if
you do that with pigs or cows, um, if
you don't move your cows, um, they'll
eventually either starve or tear down a
fence to go get, you know, feed, um, pigs
likewise, you know, will do something.
Whereas honeybees, they don't
require that type of management.
Now, they may swarm and you know,
the hive may swarm or the hive
may abscond, but they'll, you
know, they'll be there anyway.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Honeybees
I think are one of those.
Livestock or enterprises that stacks
well with a tive farm if they've got
an interest in it and they don't have
a, they're not allergic to the stings.
Um, I love my honeybees, but I'll be
honest, they don't get enough attention.
I need to give them more attention,
um, because they go, well, like you
mentioned, they can go months without me.
In fact, I kind of, I prefer my hives
that, that survive better without me.
But, you know, spring's getting ready
to come here and I'm gonna have to
be a little bit more attentive or
they're gonna swarm and then I won't
get the honey production I like.
But like you mentioned earlier,
honey is one of those things that to
find the market for is not as tough.
I, I have not sold honey, um, for the last
few years for a few different reasons.
Um, one of the biggest reasons.
I get all these irons in the fire and
the first ones that gets left out are
the honeybees because they're easy to, to
wait and say, oh, I can do this later.
And then I, I neglect them too much.
So I've gotta do a better job with that.
But I always have people asking
if I've got honey for cell.
It's, it's a constant.
So it's one of those things
I see a few people doing.
I wish, um, when I was
little, my dad had honeybees.
I had honeybees when I was in high
school till I went to college, and
then I spent 20 years away from 'em.
And at times I'm like, why, why
didn't that pop on my radar early on?
Because I enjoy 'em so much.
Just being in a hive with bees flying
around you and and checking it, it's just.
Everything else has stopped.
I mean, because you can't
focus on anything else but
the bees, it's everywhere.
But it is just a cool feeling.
I really enjoy
Track 1: Especially if you're doing
direct sales, uh, honey is one
of those things that people will.
Come and purchase from.
Um, that's a lot of the reasons people
use chicken eggs, I think because hey,
it keeps people coming back to the farm.
The difference is that it's much easier,
much, much easier get the honey than
it is to deal with the chicken eggs.
Yes, it's a lot of work to harvest honey.
Uh, yes, you do need to manage, but
at the same time, you don't have
to check on honeybees twice a day.
You can check on 'em twice a month, most
of the time, um, in the spring, check 'em
a little bit more frequently and in the
summer and fall, at least here, uh, you
know, they don't need that much attention.
But the, and that's one of the
things I like about honeybees.
The, the, and they work really well with
a lot of the cover crops that we grow.
Um, you know, we've got
clover in our pastures.
Ironically, most of the time
the honeybees don't even.
Use the buckwheat or the clover in our
pastures in the spring because there's
so much other stuff blooming like the
uh, uh, here, tulip poplar is, uh, and
pritt are the most dominant, um, you know,
hunting producer or, or nectar producing
plants, uh, this time of the year.
Like it's what, mid-February.
So we've got, um, elm
and red maples blooming.
The hives are building up
their populations, which I
need to go in and check 'em.
Um, but, you know, then, um, but like last
year, and this is what, what was really.
The big thing.
We had 20 acres of buckwheat blooming
periodically, and our honeybees worked
the, the buckwheat and the clover more
this past year than anything else.
'cause we had a cold freeze
that essentially killed all
the tulip poplar blooms.
Um, it was a low production year,
honey wise for most people in my area.
Um, just because of that late, you know,
we had a 22 degree freeze on March 22nd,
I think, something like that, which is
real cold for us that time of the
year.
And it, it killed a lot of those blooms.
Um, and so it, it, made a, uh, but that
buckwheat, even though it's not the best
summer producing plant because of the
way it grows, you know, we had honeybees
buzzing all over the buckwheat, you
know, in, in April and June just because
they didn't have anything else to go.
So, so honeybees I
think, work really well.
Particularly if you're growing cover
crops for livestock, or if you're having,
you know, or if you're interceding,
um, legumes, clovers, and that kind
of stuff into pastures for, you know,
cows or, or other, or small ruminants.
So they work really well.
I think,
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Yeah.
Very good.
Rob.
It's time we transition to our
famous four questions, same four
questions we ask of all of our guests.
Our first question, what is your favorite
grazing grass related book or resource?
Track 1: um, you know, before this
past week, I would've told you, um,
green grass in the spring by, um, oh,
I can't think of the guy's name now.
Oh my goodness, I'm having a brain
lapse, but I, I just listened to
the audio book of Will Harris's,
a Bold Return to Giving a Damn.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yes.
Track 1: And it, uh, you know, if you
can get around some of the, some of the
direct language, um, it, it was a really
inspiring book, not just because of it.
He was telling their story, not just
because of the ecological benefits of
regenerative agriculture and everything
else, but the sheer determination,
um, that, that he demonstrated by
overcoming the obstacles that he had.
It was, um, really, really, it's
been a really kind of encouraging
transformative book in many ways.
Um, I, I thoroughly enjoyed the book.
In fact, I listened to it twice.
Um.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: Oh yes,
Track 1: In less than a week.
It's, it's crazy.
Um the other one that I was,
um, referencing though, um,
green Grass, uh, in the spring.
Tony
Berg Greengrass in the Spring, A Cowboy's
Guide to Saving The World by Tony Berg.
Um, the, the Reason Ha ha,
have you read that book?
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: I have not, in
fact, I hadn't even heard of that book
till a minute ago when you told me.
Track 1: Well, the, the
reason I like that book.
Um, and I think the best books on grazing
and regenerative agriculture and all that,
it, they get you to think about different
systems and different things in life.
The reason I, I like that book is
it's, it's not just about his story of
dealing with regenerative agriculture
or management intensive gring grazing.
Um, he's more of a cowboy from the west.
But it's, it's more about rethinking,
um, you know, life in general.
Holistic, not just holistic grazing,
but holistic living in many ways.
Um, and I think both of those
books have that in common.
I, I
really, really recommend that book.
I listen to the audio books most of
the time because when I'm on the farm,
that's just, you know, I have a, I
run out of podcasts to listen to.
Um, but, um, both of those
books are very, very good.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920:
And both of those?
Well, the green grass in
Spring, I had not heard of.
Um, I see it was published in 2022.
Opt to look that up.
Will Harris's book?
I have, but I haven't read it yet.
Our second question.
What is your favorite tool for the farm?
Track 1: Hmm.
I'm gonna have to say it would be pigs.
I don't know how to articulate this
really well, and I, I think I've done
a poor job of, of articulating how well
pigs perform both in the woods and on
pasture and on cover crops, but they
have the power to transform soil health.
Now they can be ecological
disasters, don't get me wrong.
It's, it's easy to really booger something
up, but they, the, um, and you're not
gonna have a pasture that's even that,
that you can mow with a lawnmower.
You're not gonna get that with
pigs, obviously, but they have such
a profound, they can have such a
profound positive impact on the, the
environment, the land from, from.
Uh, rooting up trash in the woods.
I mean, we found old, these old bottles
that look like they're a hundred some
odd years old, um, that the pigs have
rooted up to their ability to, to, you
know, um, graze on, on cover crops that
then regrow and they can graze again.
Granted, you can do that with
cows, but it's different with pigs.
It's a lot, it's a lot
different with pigs.
Um, and they just bring so
much joy and life to a farm.
When you see the pigs, when
they see you and all of a sudden
they start running to you.
Um, you know, you see that little bit
of excitement with cows when you move
them into a new paddock and they're
ready to move and the cows jump through
and they kick their heels in the air.
You get a little bit of
excitement like that.
But man pigs, they can, they'll
get that kind of excitement.
They'll, they'll jump and play, uh, just
sometimes just because they see you.
Now they can be a.
Pain as well.
Um, but I can too.
So, you know.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: 95 episodes
in, and I don't believe we've had
anyone mentioned our livestock, but.
For all of us.
That's an excellent tool.
We couldn't do what we
wanted to, without that tool.
So excellent tool.
For a third question.
What would you tell someone
just getting started?
Track 1: I, I've thought about
this over and over and over again.
If you're, if you're wanting to
do regenerative agriculture, small
farming, whatever, and be profitable, I.
I would start with what's standard if
it's pigs, start with a standard meat
pig and then learn how to do that well
and then grow, I would suggest, you know,
um, yes, there are options for lot of
really good, really, really good quality.
Um, I, I would get, get good with
the standard and then kind of
deviate from there, because then
you can learn and grow from there.
It's just like honeybees.
Uh, I had somebody call me, we sell
honeybees, honey and honeybees, and
uh, somebody called me and said, Hey,
I was told to get Russian honeybees.
And I told her, I said, don't get
Russian honeybees to start with.
She said, well, they
say they're really good.
I said, I don't know whether they're
really good or not, but I know that
I've had Italian honeybees that have
been wildly aggressive and I got stung
wearing full equipment and protective.
I got stung over 60 times
trying to, to find the queen to
replace, to requeen the hive.
And I was to the point of setting
the whole dead gum colony, not just
the colony, but all the hives in
that area on fire, because I would
pull up to the farm and the honeybees
would start crashing into the window.
So once you learn how to deal with
more calm bees or honeybees with a
calmer reputation, that occasionally
you'll have some aggressive ones.
Then deal with honeybees that are a
little, that might be a little bit more
aggressive, but a little more nuanced.
That's my suggestion.
And, and I think that that's
good advice for most people.
Now, there are outliers that do
really well with alternative systems.
Um, but you know, we don't have a good
market for pastured pork in my area.
So how am I gonna try to sell pastured
pork that costs, you know, my pastured
pork costs almost 75% more than
what you get in the grocery store.
It's much better.
But I have a hard sell doing that
with people, much less a pastured
pork, like the mango itza, that's
gonna cost three or four times as
much, and it's gonna be much fattier.
And you see what I'm saying?
That's, I would start with what's
standard, where you can get a lot of
good advice from folks and then, and then
move, you know, in, in other directions.
Um.
Because then you can reduce
waste, you know, be more
efficient with time and energy and
resources and, and go from there.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920:
Excellent advice there, Rob.
And lastly, where can others
find out more about you?
Track 1: Um, they can always go to
our website, dowell family farms.com.
Um, it's in the process of being updated.
Um, that's been a, a hectic
thing to do this week.
Um, and then probably they can
get more information about what
we're doing, uh, especially if
they're more interested in pastured
pigs, uh, and reducing feed costs.
They can do that on YouTube.
Um, at Doll Family Farms.
Um, you can just search for Dole Family
Farms on YouTube or um, youtube.com/the
at symbol and Dole Family Farms.
cal_2_02-10-2024_073920: We'll
get those links in our show notes.
Rob, we appreciate you coming
on and sharing with us today.
Track 1: Well, I'm, I'm glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
I've really enjoyed it.
Enjoyed getting to know you,
uh, over the last couple hours.
It's been, um, it's been really good.