Ep 10 Kris Constable CEO & Co-Founder at COINOS

Show Notes

Coinos is an open source bitcoin web wallet, point of sale, ecommerce marketplace and exchange platform. Development started in Vancouver in September 2012 as a way to provide local merchants with a convenient way to accept bitcoin payments.

The feature set has grown over the years to accomodate a wide variety of use cases with the goal of making it as easy as possible for anyone to get started using Bitcoin quickly, cheaply, and securely.

Anyone can download the source code and host their own instance of the platform backed by their own bitcoin, liquid or lightning nodes, or reach out and we'll gladly set this up for you.

Once signed in, you can create both custodial and non-custodial wallets within your account. The default custodial wallet allows funds to be deposited on any of the bitcoin, liquid or lightning networks and seamlessly withdrawn over any other network without any conversion process or fee.

Using a non-custodial wallet means keys are generated client-side in your browser so we never have access to the funds. Transactions from these accounts are subject to on-chain transaction fees and Lightning Network payments are not supported but we advise using this account type or a paper wallet for storing larger amounts.

Accounts denominated in USDt and LCAD stablecoins and other Liquid assets are also supported.

Intra-account transfers between custodial wallets of different users on our server are completely free, instant, and unlimited.

https://corporate.coinos.io/

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Kevin Horek: Welcome back to the learner.co show. Today we have Chris Constable he's the CEO and co-founder at coin O S guys. What do you think I'm excited to have him on the show. He knows a ton about the crypto space and actually what they're doing at quinoa is actually really fascinating. I'm curious to see what you guys are interested in learning about today.

Jon Larson: Yeah, I'm really interested in today's show I'm I think this is the first person we've had in the cryptocurrency space or in the crypto space. I think that's great because I think we're at the very beginning of how crypto will be used and I'll be interested in see how he thinks this looks in say 10, 15, 20 years, as opposed to now and how this will be used by individuals as well as companies and artists.

Gregg Oldring: Cool. Yeah. This is going to be a really interesting show for sure. Cause Chris seems like a super, I mean, he's in a fascinating space at so many people are really curious about, and let's be honest, cryptology itself is super hard to understand. It's not as simple concept. It's just the underlying math of it. To that's really going to be pretty fascinating. I think we're all kinda, there are lots of people are very curious about it and it has this potential just as John said to reshape the world in this way, that's bigger than just the currency side of it too. I don't know if he'll get into that or not. There's lots of imagination potential there, but other things just, I, I don't know Chris yet, but just looking at history, it's going to be pretty cool because he is, self-educated, it seems like in so many things that he's doing and self-educated and things that are really hard, like cryptology, he, I don't know if you were where he got his background on that yet.

Gregg Oldring: I'm dying to find out that's going to be really interesting to see what that journey is. And yeah, he's got lots of diversity. I mean, just look at his LinkedIn profile, he's got all kinds of crazy stuff, not crazy interesting stuff. There's like different directions, the other than cryptology and cryptocurrency on there. So this is going to be fun.

Jon Larson: Yeah. I think that I'm wondering if that might help with how he looks at Bitcoin and cryptocurrency overall. One thing I've heard is that if you were to describe the internet in 1992, you'd be talking to somebody describing it would be, you'd be talking about IP addresses and just nobody would understand it. But, but how, when we look at the internet now, it's we know exactly what it is.

Gregg Oldring: I know nobody talks about IP addresses, TCP IP protocols, or any of those nobody cares about that. This is irrelevant. And is that part of your point?

Jon Larson: Yeah, I think the thing is that what describing how, what this looks like and how, what this will mean to everybody in society, as well as business and government. I think that's, what's interesting.

Kevin Horek: Agreed. No, I, I totally agree with that, I guess on what the show, Chris, welcome to the show.

Kris Constable: Thanks for having me excited to be here. Yeah. I'm.

Kevin Horek: Excited to have you on the show. I think what you guys are doing at coin O S and all the other stuff that you're involved with in the cryptocurrency space is really innovative and cool, but maybe before we get into that, let's start off with where he grew up.

Kris Constable: Sure. I grew up in Ontario kind of split between Peterborough and Ottawa, Ontario.

Kevin Horek: Very cool. So you have quite the educational background. Do you want to give us some highlights and kind of the stuff you took? Because I think it's really quite fascinating.

Kris Constable: Sure. I did a small stint in post-secondary. I went to the college in Ottawa and I took interior design and the reason I took it, although it was slightly interested, I took it more because it was like the hardest program to get into at the time at the college. It was more of just the challenge of it. I liked, but I realized in there that the curriculum, I was not impressed with, for example, in the, in terms of interior design, a lot of it is architecture related. Were using a drafting board the entire first year. We never once took computer-aided drafting or AutoCAD in the entire first year. I was really frustrated with that because I'm like, well, when you get out into the industry, it's a hundred percent AutoCAD. Now nobody's using pen and paper. One hand, I appreciated the understanding the fundamentals before you transition into, the new fangled technology, if you will.

Kris Constable: It was my personal opinion that those should have been done simultaneously. Waiting until second year before even touching a computer, it was ridiculous to me. I realized that was kind of my, where it really hit home. That in my opinion is most of post-secondary is just to teach you how to learn as opposed to learning the subject itself in almost any topic. I would say that you can probably learn faster if you're passionate about it on your own with a few exceptions. So, my personal opinion is unless you're going to be a, a lawyer doctor, engineer post-secondary is great. If you just want, to party or to learn how to learn, but self-taught, I think is going to be the future. That's, what's way more exciting as somebody who hires people fairly frequently is I'm way more excited to hear about somebody who didn't sleep last night.

Kris Constable: Cause I learned a new thing in their industry, say a new programming language for a developer or something, or, a new library versus, I just got a computer science degree and I've, done the I've done the time and passed and got a mark is not as exciting. It doesn't show that you're on the bleeding edge and passionate about it, which holds a lot more weight to me.

Kevin Horek: Now I a hundred percent agree with you and I've had that argument with people in the past. That's actually to be honest, kind of what we're trying to do with learner and track all that, but I'm curious, then you've taken some pretty interesting classes around, like, can you talk about some of the Morse code and the amateur radio operator stuff that you took because I'm curious to learn why you took that and how that came to be.

Kris Constable: Yeah. I think there's two parts to it. One thing that's always stood out for me is like perpetual curiosity on everything. I want to know how everything works. What's the fastest way to do that. So, again, I could go take a communications degree and kind of go through the long strides of it. If I want to understand, like how does radio work? Well, there's a book I can have in a quick certificate or a course on it. Part of it was just is, the perpetual curiosity, but about, I guess it was over 10 years ago now probably 12 or 14 years ago, I decided to ensure that I'm always learning something new and different and kind of, and also I think it's worth noting that whenever you learn something new, you're building new neural pathways right. In your brain. It's always good to be really stretching your knowledge base outside of the comfort zone, into new topics, which is also interesting to me.

Kris Constable: I decided every quarter, every three months, I want to get a new certificate in something completely different. So, having done that now for over 10 years, yes, I have a lot of unusual or esoteric certificates, but it's been a lot of fun and I have a I'm good at trivia nights now.

Kevin Horek: That's awesome. And trivia nights were actually fun. So I that's cool. Walk us through some of the other courses that you've maybe taken and your career because your career has been a bunch of different paths, but they're all kind of maybe loosely related.

Kris Constable: Yeah. Actually something that stands out. I haven't thought of this story in a long time, but when I was on the top security team for information security team for, I guess now it's called cyber security, but you can call it InfoSec. I was one of the top teams at Canada's biggest company. I remember going into a guy who would become my mentor genius guys got several patents in like cryptography and like just mad genius guy. We met and he's like, oh, I'm like, I'm excited to finally meet you. He's like, yeah, I've heard of you too. And blah. We're all patting each other on the back cause we met each other and I said, yeah, I started on Unix and now I'm insecurity and I really love it. And he's like, yeah. He's like, you're probably also interested in astronomy. You're probably also interested in photography and like lock picking.

Kris Constable: And I'm like, what? Like how do all of my hobbies? He's like, it's just inherent in that kind of personality. That I found that one really stood out to me, he named about five different hobbies that I had at the time with, even though he had never met. I think people who have that perpetual curiosity attached to technology are generally interested in a lot of these topics. Interesting. What got you fascinated by about cryptology cryptography is so w we're still actually in this battle, but I would say it's kind of where Bitcoin is today is we play. When you look at, oppressive regimes, we kind of look, we've been lucky in Canada in the U S that we've had, we've been in a relatively, socially democratic environment for everybody in our age group. We've just never experienced real danger if you will. What I think that I've always had the foresight on is that the winds can change very quickly.

Kris Constable: You have a leader that you like love or trust, that's kind of, it's easy to kind of forget how quickly those tides can turn. What happened in around 93, 94 as there was a fellow named Phil Zimmerman, and he released this open source software called PGP, which stood for pretty good privacy, it was determined that PGP, which was the best way to encrypt your email at the time and still is sadly today. There's nothing better or easier to use than PGP. And we're talking 94 till now. It was a really interesting thing for me to observe. That's where I kind of realized philosophically that a there's never going to be a time where technology can only be used by the good guys and not the bad guys. It's also worth noting that the good guys and bad guys can turn very quickly. You have, I took this kind of hard line in the sand back then where the benefits of everyone having access to PGP outweigh the dangers of a few of them using it.

Kris Constable: And we're still seeing this today. Whenever I hear a politician mentioned the three scary things, which is, terrorism money-laundering or child pornography, these are three very provocative terms that me and nobody wants to ever see facilitated through technology, but I've never, and I've been in, considered an expert in this space globally in more than once and still believe the same thing I did in the nineties, where I believe in the rule of law, I was growing up with where if Chris myself is suspected of doing money laundering or terrorist financing or child porn, or any of these drastic, terrible things, then I, I say, throw the spirit of the law and the full book at this person, investigate the heck out of that person. I fully support that literally billions, if not trillions of dollars and in the military industrial complex on surveillance and spying with very little results or outcome from it, a quick example also, as in like, airport security, we've seen understandably after nine 11, we needed to feel more safe, but the laws that got passed within two months after that incident, those laws had already been written, which is really fascinating and scary that allowed this surveillance state to really start to be creative, think of something provocative or a controversial thing.

Kris Constable: If I went to, a cannabis place or a, an abortion clinic or these provocative things that data can now get published by some hacker. To me, it's not worth collecting all of that, ALP our data for the few possible cases of catching an actual, like stolen car with this, surveillance technology.

Kevin Horek: Interesting. Do you have any sources or books or things that you could recommend around privacy philosophy or law that you've kind of learned some of this from.

Kris Constable: Philosophy or law or privacy? Yeah, or, I mean, I, I don't have books per se. I think we're living in the information age and you can learn anything online right now. So there's no shortage of access information. The one in terms of books, the only thing that's standing out to me is there was a, a book I read years ago called the millionaire fast lane or the fast lane millionaire by MJ DeMarco. That book is the, I've read a lot of business books. That was the one business book that I'd say that really stood out because it helps to frame what helped you as an individual reader frame, what kind of mindset you have in the business world. That one is more specifically for business slash entrepreneurial folks, but it is one that I definitely recommend in terms of a book.

Kevin Horek: Interesting. So what made you learn Morse code?

Kris Constable: I had met a fellow group of people who are into amateur radio or ham radio. Again, as a curious person, I went and got my license, which is quite easy to get what's called the basic level in Canada. I forget the American equivalent, but in Canada we have basic and advanced where the two main ones. There was one in the middle called CW or continuous wave. Continuous wave is the fancy version of saying Morris code. Now what happened around the time that I got my basic license is the Canadian government, because radio is sophisticated now with digital capabilities, they were removing Morse code from the Canadian government's military. They did that, they eventually were going to remove it from the ham radio certificates. As somebody who's decided he wants to get as many certificates as he can and weird fun things. I quickly applied to do my Morse code certificate just because it was going to be going away and it wasn't going to be possible to get anymore.

Kris Constable: I have one of the last, if not the last Morse code qualifications on my ham radio certificate. Instead of just saying basic, and I eventually got my advanced two, which incidentally was the hardest certification I've got out of all of them, even though it was only 50 multiple choice questions in Canada, the advanced CW course is, or exam is so intense. You have to like, know basically how to build a radio from scratch and understanding the math behind it as well. So, so my certificate though is basic CW and advanced, which you can't even get now, if you wanted, because they've removed CW as an option. Wow. Fascinating. How did you get involved with coin S and what exactly is it? Yeah, so I moved to Vancouver in January, 2014 to do security for one of the first Bitcoin blockchain exchanges in Canada. I moved to Vancouver for it, which is where they were based.

Kris Constable: I'm still here since, but when I moved here, I was told that you could already use Bitcoin. Again, we're talking 2014, which is way before most people had heard of it or were using it. Where I lived is called Chinatown Vancouver and where I had to work as gas town, which was only like a 10, 15 minute walk, but between my home and my work, there were three locations accepting Bitcoin. Including a coffee shop and a yoga studio, which is still there today, actually stretch yoga. And, but the lost and found coffee shop was accepting Bitcoin. On the way to work, I could go in and instead of waiting in the lineup to pay, like most people, I could just pull out my phone, send Bitcoin, they would get the little beep that like, Chris just bought his mocha, it's $5 or whatever, and I'm sorry, you kind of make it ahead of the group.

Kris Constable: Now, this was when Bitcoin was under $400. You can imagine all of that, those Bitcoin SATs that I sent, $5 on 400 today, Bitcoin just hit an all time high. So, you know, have a plus $60,000. My Bitcoin mocha purchases alone probably did quite well for that business. What I discovered is that they were using this technology called coin O S, which was developed by a local fellow. Who's now my co-founder Adam. It was through coin O S as a POS as a point of sale. I had first heard about it and was just on the user side. I followed it for years because Adam is just one of these few people who are both got visionary capabilities, but also technical competence to build. That's kind of the most dangerous combination. If you can have these big future long-term visions and the ability to build for it.

Kris Constable: He's been adding the coin iOS since 2012, I think it was first live. So, in terms of being able to buy or sorry, in terms of be able to use Bitcoin, I think it's the first POS slash P2P platform on the planet, but it's still the one that exists today. Now having followed him for years in 2017 claim had his first real big bubble, and it hit 22,000 at the peak and the transaction time and cost of using Bitcoin because the network got so congested, it would take, over half an hour to do a transaction sometimes. It, at its peak, it was like over $50 us per transaction. It made the coin O S POS useless. I'm not going to go buy a $5 mocha and have to pay 50 bucks for the opportunity to do that and wait half an hour. The POS just became dead in the water.

Kris Constable: After the bubble in 2018, when the bear market came again and nobody really cared about Bitcoin, or it just kind of was in a pause. Adam kept working in a bunch of Bitcoiners where, and they built a technology called lightning network. Lightning network is a layer, two technology that sits on top of Bitcoin. So, Adam, of course, always on the bleeding edge added lightening in quantum, Wes was one of the first 100 production nodes to use lightning. Once he added lightning back in lightning allows super fast PTP NPOs. It was then that now any business could start using coin OSTP again and never have to worry again about really slow transaction times or expensive ones. In 2018, nobody was now, Bitcoin was kind of, nobody was talking about it. Nobody, no businesses were eager to accept it because it was in a bear market. And unfortunately, most people are short-sighted.

Kris Constable: That like even today, Bitcoin just hit an all time high and I've got five messages today. How do I buy Bitcoin? People are always talking about when it's hyped and at its peak, instead of buying when it's cheap. Nobody's talking about is when you want to be a smart investor. Now only in the last couple of years, has the POS really started once the hype started again, people now want to use that POS. I guess this is kind of a long-winded long story, but I haven't kept talking to Adam. He then added another layer, two technology called liquid to the stack. Liquid does two extra things to Bitcoin. It allows you to do smart contracts, what Ethereum does. It also allows confidentiality to Bitcoin transactions, which doesn't exist on the Bitcoin blockchain. All along this time, I kept talking to Adam where he's treated it like a hobby project.

Kris Constable: It's an amazing open source tool that anybody can use, but he's never charged a dime for it in his life. He just wants everyone to be able to use Bitcoin as a kind of an idealist. I've got the ideal as heart myself and I like what he's trying to solve for. I kept saying, well, why not turn this into a business where we can hire more people, make money, hire more people, and then it can spread faster than just you. So, we had a bit of a back and forth, and then it was only this year. It was in the spring where we got talking and he was like, I'm passionate about it. We've got the same kind of big picture vision. We want everyone to be able to use Bitcoin where outside of coin LS, like, I bet you, even, you hearing this or anybody listening, nobody's ever even thought of Bitcoin actually being usable.

Kris Constable: People just buy it for this store of value, treating it like gold, waiting for it to go up. But coin was gold from day one. Isn't that it's like, put your Bitcoin in us. If you want to use it, if you want to be able to send Bitcoin to your friends and less than a second, if you want to accept Bitcoin for your business. Our priority has always been making Bitcoin usable. That's how I got involved is in the spring, Adam kind of just said, do you want to get involved in blah. We went, we did it back and forth. And he said, here's the keys? Your CEO, let's see what you can do. We've been, we've got, we're a formal company now, or a corporation registered we're blazing forward. We're at this interesting point now where we can't even keep up with customer demand.

Kris Constable: We're hiring developers as fast as we can. And, and we're maintaining our culture fit. We haven't taken any, we haven't taken any investment money, which is crazy for many people's perspective, but we don't. We want to maintain our autonomy. We don't have to beholden to any stakeholders so we can still kind of keep to our vision as we wish. So, I don't know, we might fall on our face, but to this day, all of our code is open source. Any clients that we build for, we say very clearly that everything we build for you is going to be open source. Anybody who uses us gets the benefit of all of our other clients, technology gets built into your stack as well. We're creating this behemoth of a code base. Now, as we have all different clients wanting different, NFT technologies is where most of our bread and butter is right now with our using liquid.

Kris Constable: We offer a white label NFT marketplace, and it's that white label NFT marketplace technology that is just, blazing at an incredible pace way outside of the typical NFP images that most people are hearing of today, we're building the future of NFT technology. So, real estate like property rights, we've got all kinds of interesting clients in that category.

Kevin Horek: Interesting. I want to dive deeper into the NFTE stuff at a second, but how does that tie into your web wallet? The point of sale, the NFT and the web wallet?

Kris Constable: Yeah, it's a great question. The, the web wallet, the benefit of our web wallet is, Hey, that's how most people even know us today. It's kind of entertaining how our money is actually not make, we don't make money. We don't charge anything for our web wallet. Excuse me, that's how, when you go to coinbase.io, you're log right into our web wallet. That's all that most people know us for. No, the only real correlation is because one thing we've done that's fairly novel is the way that autumn implemented lightening and liquid. It's very seamless in the web wallet. You send some Bitcoin to your web wallet, your coins called wallet. You can now use that as Bitcoin. You can use it as liquid and you can use it as lightning and you don't have to go and exchange one for the other or traded or swap it or any of these things.

Kris Constable: We do everything under the hood for you transparently. What that means from a user experience perspective is I can send you Kevin a hundred thousand dollars in the click of a button right now in one second, but I can also go on rare toshi.com, which is our flagship and empty marketplace. That's run by Blockstream. You can go to rare Toshi and use that same web wallet and buy an NFT. There's nobody that's had that experience before that plays in the NFT space, where you can just seamlessly use the same technology for a POS, for a PDP and to buy NFTs. Like it's unheard of even still to this day. It's a, that's why our web wallet really stands out and we don't charge for it. So it's very attractive. And, people look at us as kind of quote unquote lucky, because for example, El Salvador on September 7th, just over a month ago, made Bitcoin legal tender.

Kris Constable: Now in, if you're a business in El Salvador, as of September 7th, you cannot say no to accepting Bitcoin. Right now there's only one technology solution from the government called Shiva that allows you to do that. I lucked out and got to go down there, excited business meeting, but while down there it was hilarious. I was always showing people coin O S I mean, we're faster, cheaper, less privacy invasive than the POS that they know of. Quinonez is like spreading like wildfire because we don't even charge for it. We just want people to be able to use it. We have no business model tied to our web wallet. It's just for the greater good it's open source. You can take it and run your own coin iOS if you want. So, yeah, that's, I guess the correlation, which is kind of loose interests.

Kevin Horek: I'm curious to get your thoughts on traditional currency compared to cryptocurrency, because as these countries started adopting it, how does that play out and how does that actually change or potentially threaten the current money that we use today globally?

Kris Constable: Yeah. It's well, there is a quote unquote threatened aspect to it because Bitcoin is now at a scale like it's past the trillion dollar market cap. I mean, there's over a trillion dollars floating around of Bitcoin. It's unstoppable now at this stage. Now, because it got to that level of stage, no, like state actor can like, quote unquote, turn it off. So, China, India and us are usually the three kind of, big or Russia, I guess, are the four big players that might be concerning. Like, China, for example, forbidden mining from happening now, but that's just like a legislative thing. There's nothing stopping, Joe from running a minor in his house, if he's not detected for doing it. So like, you can't turn off Bitcoin. That part is threatening, but what's interesting to observe is the origin story back from like the cypherpunks email list on the w the creation of what's, what was initially just called digital cash and is now Bitcoin.

Kris Constable: The idea is that it removes that the, not just the power, which is the threatening thing, but it creates a more stable currency in the future was the intentions. You can either go, the more you study this, the more you just want to go fetal position and, put a blanket over yourself, or you're like, or I've got to work on some technology or some solution for the future. That's going to hedge against this. Bitcoin has always been a hedge against global economic uncertainty. For example, a few years ago, the in government India said with their two highest bills that they were saying, oh, only bad people would use these really large bills. We're going to give everybody like a few months to bring it into the bank. Otherwise those bills are going to be useless. Not everybody who's been sick, cause they don't trust the banks.

Kris Constable: They're people had these big bills under their pillows, if you will, the government forced them to bring them into the back bank, to cash them in. Now that economic uncertainty created a bump in Bitcoin because every time a country does something that creates economic uncertainty, Bitcoin shines. This is today, we've just seen Bitcoin hidden all time high. So.

Kevin Horek: Out of people actually learn about crypto and how to actually start buying and potentially mining this stuff.

Kris Constable: Well, so crypto is an interesting one because we talked about cryptography first. For the purest listening are really upset that cryptocurrency folks have usurped the term crypto, but I assume you been cryptocurrency in this case in terms of how do people learn about cryptocurrency? Well, it's like anything you just got to choose to prioritize on it, ? There's, when, and we've also got a lot of other things going on in the world with like we're in a state of a pandemic still. And so it's a challenging time. People have to choose, are you going to, watch Netflix at night or are you going to learn something? This is a decision everybody gets to have. I personally am of the learning side, I would rather I watch Netflix or TV. Very rarely. I want to spend my time on learning is where I choose to spend my time in terms of where there's again, no shortage of where you can learn it.

Kris Constable: It's just choosing what you, if you even want to be in the learning category, where are you going to spend that learning time on? I think T if Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is where you want to go, I think you can go to, I mean, I'm also of the, I mean, I would just say YouTube for simplicity. Most people are video learners at this stage. There are books on it. It depends on your learning style is another thing that like the education system has never figured out. Everyone has a different learning style. There's not a one size fits all. If you're a YouTube watcher, then just start watching Bitcoin videos. If you're a book reader, go find some books on Bitcoin. If you're up practical, like how does it work? Go buy, 10 or a hundred dollars worth something that, you can afford to lose by 10 or a hundred dollars from Canadian or us dollars, and then figure out how to send that back to your bank account.

Kris Constable: How to like what they call on-ramp and off-ramp with it, send some to coin OOS and send some stats to your friends. I can send, in less than 30 seconds right now, if you guys want to actually I'll do this live for if which of course something will fail miserably. If you go to Cornell last while we're talking, if you go to Cornell west, while we're talking, create an account, why don't you tell me your username? I'm going to a bit nervous now. So, but tell me, pick a really easy username. Once you tell it to me, I will send you some stats right now, once you have an account, I can send you Bitcoin SATs or Satoshis Satoshi is for context is the lowest common denominator of Bitcoin. Once you tell me what that is, I can, you can send your friends 1 cent.

Kris Constable: You can send them a a hundred dollars in the click of a button. That's just something that people have never seen before. Start sending sets any business you frequent. Like for me, I've convinced my local like coffee shop pub to accept Bitcoin now. I can go, they get to experience it now for the first time. And, and I get to use my Bitcoin, which is a lot of fun, so, okay. So I see your username. I'm going to just type it in right now in my system. I'm clicking on, send I put in your username. I search it. I find it. I'm going to, so then you say, okay, now, are you watching? So click on quinoa, the logo. So you're seeing the transaction screen. I want you to say got it. As soon as you see it, okay. I'm going to count to three and click send by the time I let go of the send and you'll have already received it.

Kris Constable: So 1, 2, 3 I'm clicking, sang. Got it. Yeah. So you got it, like.

Kevin Horek: You were still talking and I got it.

Kris Constable: Yeah. That's like, you just saw Bitcoin being usable and I've never seen, anybody's face of like, oh my gosh, that is so incredibly fast and easy. You can try. My username is Kris K R I S you can click send and send me half of what I just sent you. Click on, send to search for Kris Kros or click the search button, and then it makes sure yes. Yep. And then click the yellow search button. It should say sending to Chris if you typed it. Right. Yup. Yup. It makes sure it's not CID or USD. Make sure it says SATs that you're sending me and just put like, a hundred SATs or something, 500 SATs and click send. As soon as you click send, I'll have received it,

Kevin Horek: I'm going to hit there. I have to send Kevin a certain right now done wild, like how fast that was, right?

Kris Constable: Yeah. This is, this is so, in terms of like using it, you've now you've experienced Bitcoin being used. You are in the top, like sub 1% of the planet who's even seen Bitcoin being used so far. So, in terms of like, how do you learn it? Well, now you get, now you can also with that same account, click on receive, click on amount. Imagine you're up at a pub. You can put, $43 and 28 cents is your bill. You just scan the code as a user and a, you can send that pub or that restaurant, that equivalent in Bitcoin sites. This is, to me, a really exciting thing. That's really going like wildfire in El Salvador, but even in Canada, in the U S there's businesses now accepting Bitcoin, we've got another fellow in another country in the global south, that's deploying coin O S quite aggressively.

Kris Constable: Again, anybody could run their own, you don't have to use ours or trust us, we're fully open source. You can go look at our code and make sure there's no backdoors or hidden secret things.

Kevin Horek: Interesting. I want to dive deeper into the NFT marketplace that you mentioned earlier. Sure. What exactly are you building that and how are you leveraging that to monetize your business?

Kris Constable: Yeah, so we're effectively a development shop right now, but we're spinning it into what's called a software as a service or a platform as a service. SAS is a very fancy tech term for software as a service. Because our technology is so kind of advanced and hard to understand for a lot of people, even though it's opensource, we say to big brands, instead of you learning how to build an entity marketplace from scratch right now, we've already built it. You can leverage our knowledge and capability and we'll build it for you and make it look how you want. A brand, can we get, we're mostly dealing with big brands that say that they want their own NFT marketplace. They come to us and we'll scan it. How exactly they want it to look like. Every one of our client's websites looks completely different, but it's the same technology under the hood.

Kris Constable: They also often ask us outside of images, what other use cases for NFTs can we have? For example, we had a client come to us and said, I've made a scifi movie, a feature film, and I want to figure out how to leverage NFTs for this. What can you guys do? We said, well, why not make an NFT ticket? People had to buy a ticket and then as an NFT, and then we could even check in their browser to prove that they really own that NFT to be able to watch the movie. If you go to silhouettes, the movie.com, it's the first feature film. That was that the only way you can watch it is by paying with Bitcoin or cryptocurrency, and you'll get an image that looks like a ticket, but we can verify that you still own that NFT ticket in order to watch the movie.

Kris Constable: That's just it, another interesting use case that we've built, we've worked for some big brands. Like we helped Playboy magazine, did their first NFTs on our technology we've got. That's basically the way that we work is we work with mostly big brands, but, again, Adam and I, at our core values, we want to make sure that Bitcoin remains accessible to everyone, including NFTs. We've been trying to make it so it's easier to spin up new instances. We have our developers also working on that, where, what I foresee is wanting to become like, the Shopify of NFT marketplaces, where you can click one button and, put in your logo and your color scheme. And, you would have your own NFT marketplace, but it's kind of hard to do that right now because we keep adding so much technology features under the hood, but it's going to be come an ally cart service where you're going to say, I only want NFT marketplaces dealing with digital images.

Kris Constable: I want one, that's only dealing with NFP tickets. I want one, that's dealing with music. There's just so many technology options. We're adding to our clients. That again, we can't even keep up with the client demand right now. It's really funny because again, if you go to corn and rice.io, we don't even have a marketing website set up for that. We even are doing this. It's all through word of mouth. If someone sees our technology, it's like, well, who did that for you? Again, our clients don't even have to state that they're using us. One of the funny ones right now is we are just negotiating with a, plus billion dollar organization. Who's our competition, NFT marketplaces. They reached out and said like, can you guys work for us? This will be the second big business that is an NFT marketplace agency that we are doing it for them.

Kris Constable: It's an entertaining position we're in right now where just kind of dominating the Bitcoin NFTE marketplace space and no one, even like billion dollar agencies, can't keep up with, our little shop that no, one's heard of.

Kevin Horek: Very, very cool. Where do you see the space in maybe 5, 10, 15 years? Any thoughts?

Kris Constable: I mean, I think, yeah. I mean, in terms of learning, for example, and I just shared this, like Bitcoin is definitely worth learning in terms of just to keep it at the learning level for a second, but the three spaces to pay attention to if you're is decentralized finance or defy NFTs, and which is noncountable tokens and Dows, which is decentralized autonomous organizations, defy Dows and NFTs are going to be the future. They're going to be prolific. They are going to be ubiquitous in everything we do. You just need to, it's me saying to you right now, Hey, we're going to this new technology called the internet. It's 1995. You should really understand it because I think it's going to be powerful. People are like, oh, it's technologically advanced. I don't really understand it. Most people are going to be doing that, but whoever's listening to this right now.

Kris Constable: I a hundred percent, there's no job that's ever going to give you a bigger opportunity than defy or NFT this year is the unique crystallization or creation of an industry. That's going to be ubiquitous in the future. People are hearing a benef tease right now, they just think of these images where people are making millions every day, flipping digital images, not realizing that is the literal tip of the iceberg of NFTs. I think, you know, as we talk about credentials earlier, when I say to you, I've got my PhD from university of Wisconsin, how do you know that? I really do. There's been cases where people are faking their degrees as an NFT. I can show you on my point of Wes wallet that I actually have, my interior design degree from the college, I have it. That's going to be the future, his credentials, for example, every certificate you have, every degree you have will be an NFT that can instantly check from the authoritative source.

Kris Constable: Again, an NFT is just a digital provable asset. That's all, it really is a unique one. You'll be able to prove what the fancy term is the Providence. What, where's the origination of that? I can click on it and say, oh, that's actually from, university of Wisconsin or UBC here in Vancouver. So there's no faking it anymore. This is the other thing, is people, even on the image debate right now, I was like, well, why would I spend, at $1.1 million on a digital image of a rock when I can just copy and paste that well, copy and paste it. When I verify the Providence of it's not going to say that's a proper ether rock. This is what people are missing is to prove that I actually own that thing is what NFTs do. If two tickets is a great example of that right now that we've built it, you can not like we've invalidated scalpers.

Kris Constable: Now you can actually validate that digital image NFC ticket is from the actual source that you want it to be. You can even allow resale, but knowing that the resale is a really valid ticket and it's not a fake one,

Kevin Horek: No, I, I, a hundred percent find this stuff fascinating. We could probably go on for another hour, but sadly we're out of time. How about we close with mentioning where people can get more information about coin O S the web wallet, the point of sale system, and anything else you want to mention?

Kris Constable: Yeah, I would say just, I mean, coin oas.io, we are working on our website slowly, so, but ask questions. I'm active on Twitter. We have coin OSPF wallet on Twitter is our corporate account. My personal account on Twitter is CQ www, which actually I'll give you a fun, quick story that I'll do a reveal after. I don't know how many years on Twitter I've been in 12 years, I've had two people say, oh my gosh, that's a hilarious nerdy username. Most people see CQ www and say, why on earth? Did you pick that those weird five letters? Well in Morse code or CW, when you go on Morse code for the first time, you want to like, tap your key and say, is anyone there? Instead of typing out, is anyone there, the short form for that is CQ. Whenever you go on Morse code, you're always saying CQ, that's saying, is anyone there?

Kris Constable: My Twitter handle of CQ www is kind of a nod to that saying, is anyone there worldwide web? That's what my username is on Twitter.

Kevin Horek: That's awesome. Well, Chris, again, I really appreciate our conversation and thanks again for doing it and have a good rest of your day.

Kris Constable: Thanks for having me and happy learning everyone.

Kevin Horek: Thank you. Okay, bye.

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