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Welcome to "Lessons from the Couch", where we invite you to pull up a seat and join Corina and Mariana—two marriage and family therapists based in Illinois—on a journey through therapy, life, and everything in between. In each episode, we have honest and engaging conversations with therapists and non-therapists alike, exploring their unique experiences in and around therapy. Whether it's the story of a therapist navigating early career challenges or a non-therapist sharing how therapy changed their life, our goal is to show just how accessible and transformative these conversations can be.
We also dive into the diverse career paths and personal journeys within the field of mental health, from seasoned professionals to those just starting out (like Corina and Mariana, who are at opposite timelines of their own therapy careers).
If you're curious about therapy, mental health, or simply enjoy meaningful conversations, "Lessons from the Couch" is for you. Get ready to think, reflect, and discover new perspectives one conversation at a time.
Follow Lessons from the Couch on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts to listen to new episodes.
Co-Hosted by Corina Teofilo Mattson and Mariana Reyes Daza. Show art by Jae Avilez. Music by Brandon Acosta.
If you're interested in therapy services, either in person or via telehealth, and reside in Illinois, visit www.liveoakchicago.com to learn more.
High conflict couple work wasn't necessarily something I chose. It chose me and it landed. And it's some of the most rewarding work that I get to do in this field because they're my most consistent clients. They're the ones have typically been married the longest. So patterns have built up for years and years and years.
Farrah:And the small wins are so big because any levity that they can get after years and years of being so unfulfilled in a relationship is huge.
Corina:Hi, my name is Corina Teofilo Mattson.
Mariana:I'm Mariana Reyes daza, and we are the co hosts for Lessons from the Couch.
Corina:Throughout this podcast, you're going to find us having intimate, deep conversations. We'll be talking to therapists and probably some non therapists, and we're going bring you into the therapy room with us.
Mariana:Today is 05/02/2025. Some things that have been going on in the news since last time that we recorded an episode. We've had Trump announce some tariffs and then proceed to take them back. We've had a lot of news around the Russia and Ukraine war having some new updates around that and US's involvement in it. Some other things in the news, we had a group of ladies be in space for ten minutes, including Katy Perry.
Mariana:So those are the some of the things that are coming to mind for me that are locating us in this moment in time.
Farrah:I thought it was interesting that everyone was so upset about the space launch for different reasons. No comments on whether or not their feelings were valid or invalid. Just thought it was very interesting, the different reactions.
Mariana:It seemed to cause a lot of discord.
Corina:Yeah. It's funny. Something that Mariana and I have had a chance to chat about over time is with all the things that are happening all the time now, more and more things happening every day. There are some things that just are not on my radar, and this is one of them. And I don't know what it means that it's not on my radar, but that's interesting.
Mariana:The important things you need to know is that Jeff Bezos decided to launch a rocket with some like celebrities in it, including Katy Perry. And they were up in space for like ten minutes before coming back down.
Corina:It's like a roller coaster ride to outer space for the very, very wealthy.
Farrah:Yes. For a billion dollars or so.
Corina:Farrah, anything else on your radar locating us in time?
Farrah:You know, I've been watching a lot of interviews that Michelle Obama has been doing on different shows and podcasts and the different things that she's talking about, especially relationship items that she's talking about. So that's been interesting to hear her take on some things as well as, of course, being very transparent about some stuff that happened between her and former president Obama and their relationship. So that's been very interesting to me as well.
Mariana:Our audiences are starting to hear our guest's voice already. Today here with us we have Farrah. Farrah knows us both, I believe, from our time at the Family Institute. So we're so excited to have her here today, but we'd love for you to introduce yourself, Farrah, and tell us a little bit about yourself, your therapist self, and all of the above.
Farrah:I am Farrah. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I am licensed here in Illinois as well as in Michigan. I primarily see couples, couples of color, interracial, interfaith, multicultural, interfaith, and multi ethnic couples. I also see a lot of African American women individuals for therapy services as well.
Farrah:I have my own private practice, Enriched Living Counseling. I have one associate and one intern who is in studio with me today, just kind of hanging out and listening to me gamer about. And I have had my practice since July of twenty twenty. So we're going into our fifth year.
Mariana:Another part of the context of why we know each other is Farrah was also one of the supervisors that I got to interact with at the Family Institute through the Community Program. I'm curious if you could say a little bit about that.
Farrah:Yes. I often forget to name all the things that I do and all the hats I wear on a day to day basis. So I'm currently in my last year as a community supervisor at Family Institute. Mariana was one of the students there. My experience as a supervisor has been varied.
Farrah:I love being connected to students. I love as much as we teach them that we also still learn as clinicians being supervisors. I love the service that the community program provides and the experience that it provides to the student working with primarily BIPOC populations and providing free therapy services to clients in home and in the community as needed. So I really enjoy that as well. I do also work as a clinical manager for the restorative project where they do outreach and violence prevention work on the South Side.
Farrah:I teach CBT to the outreach workers. So that's one thing that I also do as well as I sit on the board of directors for the Illinois Affiliation of Marriage and Family Therapists. I will be the sitting president next year. So I'm a little busy, just a little.
Mariana:A lot of hats being worn.
Farrah:Yes. A lot of hats, lovely hats, things that I love to do. I really enjoy doing multiple things and engaging different parts of my brain. Even when I was a student at Northwestern, I did a lot of different things. I was on the Graduate Student Association Board.
Farrah:I was part of the Black Graduate Student Association. I was part of the IGISA, the Graduate International Student Association, and just did a lot of different things. I love just engaging all the parts of myself, and that makes me a better therapist, I believe.
Corina:Beautiful segue into one of the themes that Mariana and I are hoping to talk about today's expertise, the things we do with our time, and how we came into those things that we do with our time. And I'm thinking about how you came into the field as a career changer with some clarity about what you're hoping to do with it. And I wonder, would you be willing to tell us about what you think of as your expertise and how you found your way to it?
Farrah:So one of the things that I specialize in is working with high conflict couples. And I accidentally found my way into that as it was my first couple and my first case at the Family Institute. It was a couple that was assigned to me. I had no idea that that's what I was getting, and that is what it ended up being. And I just noticed that it was work that I was comfortable with.
Farrah:And those were couples that I could work with and manage very well. It was completely coincidental. I believe it was mostly because of my background. I came from criminal justice, juvenile justice and social service work and wearing a lot of different hats in that field for about twelve years prior to career changing and going into being a therapist. So it just felt pretty natural to sit in a room with people who were highly dysregulated, couldn't really have conversations without it turning into some type of argument, didn't really have effective communication skills, and had a lot of strain in the relationships.
Farrah:So it felt normal a little bit from my previous work. So it was just like a natural segue, I believe. And so I just kept getting those types of couples and over the years just have really worked to hone those skills and sharpen the way that I work with them. And I'm still learning. And that's one of the things I love about this field is as much as you think you know, you really don't know what you don't know.
Farrah:And I love the grace that this field allows for us to continue to be learners as well as be experts at the same time. It chose me. The work chose me. I tell folks often, I believe I was born a therapist and I took the scenic route getting to be a therapist, which has also benefited me in my work as a therapist. And so high conflict couple work wasn't necessarily something I chose.
Farrah:It chose me and it landed. And it's some of the most rewarding work that I get to do in this field because I don't know if you all have worked with high conflict couples yet. They're my most consistent clients. They're the ones have typically been married the longest. So patterns have built up for years and years and years.
Farrah:And the small wins are so big because any levity that they can get after years and years of being so unfulfilled in the relationship is huge. And it's a big deal to be a part of that with them and to even give them hope that that's even possible because a lot of them come in when, you know, the relationship is on kind of the last leg. You know, I use the metaphor often that if you wait till your foot falls off and you go to the doctor, that's going to be a much longer recovery process than if you go when it first starts to ache or have some pains. And so I'm kind of the foot has fallen off doctor for couples in a way.
Corina:In thinking about you having your intern by you and Mariana having been a former student of yours, I wonder when it comes to working with folks who are in intense conflict, what are some of the lessons that you're most hoping your intern will take from you about what that work looks like?
Farrah:Patience is the main thing and to be flexible. I often say, let's draw a loose blueprint in pencil about what we might get to do that day because we really don't know what's going to walk in the room and we don't know if we're going to get to any of it. Remembering that if we can be flexible in our mindset and we can also model flexibility to those clients, everything we're doing is work. Even if we don't get to teach a skill or go over homework or, you know, find out about what happened in the latest fight, Whatever happens in that room is work. And that's one of the things that I hope my intern and my students that I supervise, as well as my associate as well, that all the things that we do in the room are work.
Mariana:Like it's really about the connection and the consistency, as you said, of the work that makes the biggest difference and not necessarily one specific skill or tool that you're teaching that day.
Farrah:Absolutely. Especially with high conflict couples. Oftentimes we do not get to some of the deeper work until months, years later. Those initial sessions, a lot of them are really just teaching and modeling emotional regulation and getting them to be able to sit in the same room together and talk to each other through the therapist, at least for a little while. And sometimes it doesn't happen for months.
Farrah:So just remembering that when they're showing up, they're coming for a reason. And whatever happens in there, as long as you're doing your due diligence, work is being done.
Corina:Mariana, can I ask you if you can pinpoint one of the things that you most took from Farrah?
Mariana:Well, I wasn't ever directly supervised by Farrah, unfortunately. But something interesting to note even within that is that despite not being in a direct room with Farah learning from Farah, I feel like I was still learning lessons from the larger community program meetings. And one general thing that was always true about Feyre that I wonder if you would say for yourself is one of the qualities that supports you in this work is that I always felt lots of warmth and this like desire to support us even though I was not your direct supervisee. I remember you making the effort to have conversations with me and offer resources. You were the first person that told me about the AAMFT sex therapy conference and stayed in touch and said, hello, there is an energy to you and I'm going to make you talk positively about yourself.
Farrah:Getting very flushed right now.
Mariana:About whether those qualities of almost what seems to come inherently to you about building support networks or from what I see of wanting to support others is part of the work that you do today.
Farrah:Yes. And as you are giving me my flowers, I must give Corina hers because some of that came from the other supervisors that I encountered in the program when I was in the program. I felt very supported and that I had access to anybody in the building at TFI that seemed like that just came with the price of tuition. And I took that very seriously, that at any time I could go into Doug or Shazay or, you know, Corina wasn't on-site, but Corina was around. And I had access to all of these people who even they weren't my supervisors, but they were in the building and they were connected to TFI.
Farrah:And I just wanted students to have that same feeling. That to me was one of the main reasons that I had such a successful time at TFI is because I felt the warmth and support of people like Carl, people who are just like, hey, what's up? What do you need? What's happening? What's going on?
Farrah:And then as graduation approached, the amount of alumni that we had access to people just being like, hey, if you want to have a conversation, reach out. Even if you don't want to work here, I'll have a conversation with you. And I did that. And so I wanted to make sure that if I was coming into the program, that I would be an advocate for students while they were in the program and beyond. And that's something that I continue to do even on the board of like, get these students to this conference so they can get connected and get acclimated to their profession.
Farrah:So that's just something that I really found to be as an important part of my experience that kept me sane in the program, really, is just being able to just sit in the hallway and talk to Carl. And if things were rough or Tim Dwyer being like, hey, are you Okay? And I'm like, I don't know. I really don't know. And feeling like they actually cared.
Corina:You mentioned earlier that patience is something that you want your students to learn from you and your intern to learn from you. And it's interesting because when I think about expertise outside of just like what's the work we do, One of the pieces of expertise that I see you model all the time is patience and also being clear about what your job is. And in a way, would say being clear about what your job isn't. And I think you are so skillful at that. And for me, as someone who can just do too much, it's like a really good reminder about what my job isn't.
Corina:And I wonder if you'd be willing to share where you learned that, how you learned to to understand what your job was, what you were agreeing to, and what was not yours to hold?
Farrah:Honestly, that was something that I brought in from my previous career. Criminal justice work is the opposite of being a therapist. You don't let anyone know anything about you. So we were so boundary to me. Sometimes people didn't even know your real name in that job because you had to keep yourself safe.
Farrah:So the boundary work that I had to do transferring from being a criminal justice person to a therapist was I had to learn how to loosen my boundaries because I came in with some very high fences up like, Nope, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I don't need to do that. That is not my job. So that was very easy for me.
Farrah:The difficulty was learning what the balance was. And now my clients will tell you my two favorite B words are balance and boundaries is because I had to figure out that you can't be this brick wall, yet You also can't have the gate open for anybody to come in. And so learning that balance and boundaries of, yes, this is mine to take on. This is not mine to take on. I liken it to Tupperware.
Farrah:When you go to someone's house and you bring a dish And I'm like, hey, wait, Corina, before you leave, let me pack your dish up and leave it with you because that's yours to take. It's not mine to keep. And so when clients come in or when I have interns or students, I'm like, okay, let me leave you with your stuff. Take your stuff with you. That's yours to manage.
Farrah:And I will manage my part here and everybody can go out in the world and be fine. That's kind of the way I think about it. So that was my challenge. And Corina, you've been doing this a lot longer than I have. So I don't know if you want to speak to how you manage.
Farrah:You know, I know you said you have some difficulty in that, but you seem to do a lot as well.
Corina:Yes, it's a really good point because you and I are both very active people. Right? We're both we're both doing a lot. Too much. Right?
Corina:Certainly. Both of us are doing too much. Yes. But what I'm thinking about when I talk about you is that there's a piece about not taking responsibility for other people that I see as like a real strength of yours. And it makes sense that that would be in part connected to the work that you did before, understanding just how much you can't control people.
Corina:And I think that I have a controlling impulse that I'm always working on. But in terms of boundaries, I think you and I might land in slightly different places about this, but I think coming from really different places on the journey, my relationship with boundaries because of the role that I have at this organization and at Live Oak and at the Family Institute at Northwestern, because of the power I have, I'm a person who believes in the idea of people being as fully themselves as they can living into whatever that looks like, which is not like a fixed thing, but an evolving thing. And what I've learned at Live Oak especially is that has much more credibility to it when people see me practicing that and finding my own version of living into myself. So that is like a big motivator for me to try to dabble with showing as much full versions of myself as I can while simultaneously practicing understanding that the power I have is real and I don't think there's like an exact right balance there, but it's a thing that I play with a lot. And so I think I try to share as much as I can about who I am.
Corina:In fact, people at my work probably know more about me than the people in the rest of my life.
Farrah:Think going through the program and Mariana, I don't know what your experience was, but that program, my cohort probably knows things about me that my own family don't know about me and things that my own therapist probably don't know about me. Right. And you mentioned like how I know or how I've learned how to only not take responsibility for things that aren't mine to manage. Part of that is also due to my own personal work and things that I've had to work through with family of origin stuff like everyone else has and recognizing what's yours to hold and what's not and what's mine to manage and what isn't. And you can't control what other people do.
Farrah:You can only control your reactions to it is it's a tough lesson. It's a practice every day. And it's hard because you're like, just do the thing. Like, why can't you just do the thing and everybody will be happy? Yet you can have that moment alone with your friends.
Farrah:Yet it's just something that keeps me centered is recognizing what is mine and what is not mine. And so, yes, allowing yourself to be who you are and choosing people to be in your life that allow you to be who you are, I think, also supports a lot of that.
Mariana:I really like what you're sharing about the work that we have to do as therapists or that we do behind the scenes, because I don't think that people that are outside our field are familiar with how much of that unlearning and the self of the therapist work is so important to the way that we show up with clients. I imagine that a lot of people that are not as familiar with what we do outside of our client work might think that we're showing up with some questions and maybe we read some books and then that's it. But it is so much about us unloading some of our own things or the language that you're using, like recognizing what is mine so that when we are in the space with clients, can try and be as neutral as possible within the information that we know about ourselves and them.
Farrah:I completely agree. If we don't know our stuff, how are we going to effectively not only manage what comes up for us in session, but what comes up for clients, especially in the work that I do with high conflict couples? People will say, Oh, you just sit there and you just listen, or you sit there and you listen to people complain. If I had a nickel for every time someone says that my job is me sitting there listening to someone complain, I could retire from all of these jobs that I have. But like Corina, I would probably find three more jobs to do.
Farrah:In fact, I keep a list of alternative jobs for when it's time for me to do other things. Yet our job is so, so, so, so much more than that. And that's the other thing that I hope my students, my intern, my associate and other people, people who are just curious about therapy know that we do a lot to prepare to try to be the best version of ourselves for our clients. And everything we do in that room is in service of that client. And a lot of things that I do outside of the room is in service of my clients.
Farrah:There are things that I don't get to watch on TV. There are movies I don't get to see. There are things that I don't get to do. There are ways that I don't get to be in the world because I choose to do this job because it's really important to me to show up that way.
Mariana:Live Oak Chicago is a primarily queer, trauma informed therapy practice located on the North Side Of Chicago, offering both in person and virtual therapy, consultation and workshops. We are committed to the practice of becoming a model of a community of diverse humans working together to transform the emotional, psychological, and spiritual well-being of individuals, families, and communities, beginning with ourselves. To access therapy, training, consultation, please visit www.LiveOakChicago.com.
Corina:I would love it if you'd be willing to share one of those things you do differently or ways that you take care of yourself that are about being able to do this work well, something you don't watch on TV or places you don't go. What comes to your mind?
Farrah:I don't watch scary movies. I don't watch a lot of drama. Just I can't. I do that for work. I am managing and helping folks manage a lot of high emotion, lot of difficult subject matter.
Farrah:So I don't always get to go and see the latest crime or drama or scary movie because that pulls on me in a way that I like to reserve that energy for this work. There are places that I don't go. I don't have Instagram because I like to keep that separate. If I get on Instagram, I'm going to see clients. Clients are going to see me.
Farrah:I have a business Facebook page and a LinkedIn page. And I have a personal Facebook page, but it is private. You can't even find it because it's not even my real name. And so there are just ways that I don't get to operate in the world because of that. I get seven hours of sleep a night because I need that in order for me to be rested and to be able to do the work that I do and see the clients I see.
Farrah:I work the way that I work, my schedule, way that I don't see clients before 10AM because I'm not a morning person and I would not want to be a client saying Farrah at 8AM because I don't know what that's going to look like. Yet, I know myself, I work best between the hours of twelve and six. So I work between twelve and six. And I'm mindful of how and when I schedule my clients. My high conflict couples go in certain spaces.
Farrah:My other clients go in other spaces. I do my own scheduling, which I don't know, I'm crazy, but I need that autonomy. So I know how my day is going to go. So I know how I can show up and having really amazing boundaries and support. My friends don't even question it.
Farrah:They're like, yeah, we know fear is not gonna do that. I was having a conversation with my best friend this morning about a movie she just saw. And she's like, yeah, you you can go watch that. And I was like, okay. Thank you for letting me know that friend because she knows that I just reserve those parts of myself so I can be energetic for the work that I get to do.
Corina:Mariana, I'm wondering, being that you're on a different part of the career trajectory, what are you noticing about the things that are things you can or can't or do or don't do in honor of the work so far?
Mariana:I have always considered myself a social extrovert, all of those words. And so part of that for me was that, like, throughout my whole life, I would get home from back then school and immediately want to spend time with people and do things with people. Then later in undergrad to grad school, using up every moment of free time to be with others. And one thing that I have learned through this work is that I really need space for myself and space for myself no longer means reenergizing alongside others, but instead truly just being alone, not having to talk at all. Similarly to the idea of the media that we're consuming, I'm finding myself rewatching comfort shows over and over again.
Farrah:Yes.
Mariana:Yeah. Finding that comfort in the familiarity of like, I know exactly what's gonna happen and do not have to be on my feet at all. I think it's almost recognizing that boundary that is important to show up for my clients, not consuming my social energy in the spaces outside because in the end like our work is so much about interacting with people even though it's mostly 99% one-sided. That's debatable because we bring a lot of ourselves into the room, but recognizing how I can be consistent about those boundaries. One thing that was interesting hearing you, Farrah, reflect on the ways that you've done this is that it sounds like the people in your life have learned to like recognize what your boundaries are without you having to like name them at every moment and it sounds like it's partly because you have been consistent about keeping them and I think that that is one of the things that I am still learning.
Mariana:Maybe some of the boundaries that I'm setting up right now are unique to the version of me that is existing as a therapist. And I think it's somewhat confusing to some people and they can take it personally if I'm saying, No, I can't spend time with you today or I'm choosing to do this thing because it's different to their concept of me. And I'm trying to be as consistent as possible with the hopes that they'll eventually notice, oh this is not about me. This is a boundary that Mariana has around her. And I'm curious what that process was for both of you of implementing boundaries to the point that they just became a part of your life and people were recognizing them without you having to consistently name them?
Farrah:Yeah, it took a lot of time. For me, it started in grad school. I'm like you, I'm very social. I get energy from social. I'm an extreme extrovert.
Farrah:Love, love, love being with people. And I could sit here and talk to you all for all day. Yet if I had clients this morning, there's no way I could have done that. So it has been a work in progress. Think about boundaries is they're constantly being evaluated and oh, do I still need to do this?
Farrah:Maybe not. So then you put a new one in or you take one out yet. It's just about that consistency. And the way I reframe it is this is how I take care of myself so I can take care of you. And that's my friendships, relationships, work, family members.
Farrah:It's just a way that I can exist that helps me love other people the way that I want to be in relationship with them and the way they deserve to be in relationship with me. And so it doesn't feel so harsh yet that consistency piece. And then those initial steps can be very hard on the other side of folks who are used to being able to reach for you. So often. You're like, yeah, of course, I can do that.
Farrah:I have all the energy in the world. And you're like, actually, today, I saw six people and I can't talk to anyone for twenty four hours. So it's difficult. But with consistency, people get that it's not about you withdrawing from them. It's about you being able to how you can show up for them.
Corina:I would say for me, I definitely have a network where there's so much room for me to have needs to make changes. There's so much room for it, it and it's a never ending learning journey for me and I am more and less successful at different moments. This is a phase where something I notice is that up until the election I was almost never watching TV, which is funny because in my life I've had phases where I watch more TV or less TV. Since the election, I've noticed I've watched more TV. It's like I'm a little bit more drawn to it, but it feels like it's a little bit about disengagement, not exactly about meeting my needs.
Corina:And so I'm currently in this phase of noticing what am I drawn to, but is that actually what I want or need? So that's one piece. Something else I do to take care of myself. One of my values is self accountability, and so if I am at work, usually this doesn't happen so much with clients anymore. Used to, but it might happen with my role as like supervisor manager boss.
Corina:I get dysregulated, if like something's happening in my body, my couch is over there. If I have a few minutes, I'll go lay on my couch and just feel whatever is happening in my body because so much of my own socialization was about kind of ignoring the data down here for the sake of the stuff that needed to get done, whatever that was. And so part of my ability to be good in this work is my ability to tolerate my own emotional experience because then I can credibly come to my clients and ask them to do the same thing with so much compassion for how hard and challenging it is. But the friend thing I think another value I have is disrupting the barriers for people to access this field to access connection, whatever and that sometimes is in conflict with my other value, which is caring for myself taking space resting Etcetera. So So I think those things are just always in a little bit of a battle for me is what I notice.
Farrah:I can definitely understand that. I think it's just that we've learned so often throughout our lives to ignore certain things. And I love that practice of like going and taking inventory of what your body tells you you need. I love that. And it's just such a good practice for us to know where things are stored and where they're coming from and how we're reacting to them.
Corina:And actually it makes being activated way less scary because once I stop and lay down and I can feel it in my body, it's like, these are just sensations. They will actually go away, you know?
Farrah:They just want a little acknowledgement.
Corina:Exactly.
Mariana:This is making me think of one of the things that I at least worry about in like work with couples and especially high conflict couples is like my own emotions in that space. How are you managing your self awareness and your neutrality in an emotionally charged session such as the sessions with high conflict couples?
Farrah:You mean all of them? All of the sessions?
Corina:All of the sessions?
Farrah:For the most part, especially in the beginnings. Yet one of the things that I tell couples when I first start working with them is that couples therapy is not equal. And what I mean by that is the relationship is the client. So some days you're going to come in and you're going to feel beat up or the partner is going to feel beat up. I might even feel beat up.
Farrah:Yet we're all here in service of the relationship. And that's one of the things that keeps me grounded when I am working in a session and things get elevated or someone starts yelling or gets dysregulated and maybe needs a break. And if I do find myself feeling activated at all, that's just one of the notes that I give myself is that this is not mine and I am here in service of them. So it's easy for me to kind of physically picture myself removing myself from the room and reentering it as the person in service of this relationship. That's really the main way because the first time that I had this couple was in grad school and that first session was very activating.
Farrah:And I just remember I didn't feel anything. And I thought that was abnormal. People were like getting elevated and yelling and calling each other names. And I was just like, okay, okay. And, you know, I use humor a lot in my work.
Farrah:And I I love laughter and making people laugh and just enjoying things. And so when things are really tense, once I've built a rapport with clients in a certain way, I will use humor to diffuse, which is also me modeling to them how to use themselves and their relationship as a way to diffuse those types of moments. And so for me, it's just like remembering that this isn't my stuff and I'm here in service of these clients in their work. And so my job, as Corina mentioned earlier, just remembering what my job is in that moment, and it's to help them help them. And I can't do that if I'm sitting activated in my own stuff.
Farrah:And it doesn't happen very often anymore as far as like getting activated when things happen. That's for when something shocking happens, which I won't get into some of those examples here today. Yet, even in those moments, you get to grow and learn from them because it's like, this hasn't happened before. And so the first step really is to just take a pause. Like that is one thing that I've learned is just, Take a second.
Farrah:And usually in that moment, you can figure out what to do next if you just take a second.
Corina:Before we finish, who has been one of your biggest teachers on this journey to becoming the therapist you are today?
Farrah:One of my biggest teachers. That list is quite long.
Corina:Well, I'm thinking about this groundedness you're describing in particular, this centeredness that you exude, but also that you're describing. I wonder if any teachers come to mind who modeled that groundedness.
Farrah:I would say, honestly, Nancy going in her object relations course and then later on in our family of origin class, I was activated in that thing all the time. Those two quarters were probably my most difficult, but the ones where I learned the most about myself and how to manage that dysregulation. And Nancy did such a great job of modeling that to us during her lectures because she would often name, okay, this thing might come up. And when this has come up for me, here's what I've done. And so I kind of stole some stuff from Nancy on how to just like regulate myself and remain grounded and present.
Farrah:I will give that to Nancy. Hats off to her, which is why graduation and she was in the line of all the professors. I hugged her the longest and the hardest.
Corina:Oh, I love that, Farrah. Thank you so much for being with us today. It really means a lot to me that you'd be willing to share your time as the upcoming Madame President that you are.
Farrah:I'm so thrilled to be here. I really appreciate this. And of course, Corina and Mariana. I mean, I would do anything for you all. So please, anytime.
Mariana:Thank you so much. It was great to have you here and see you again.
Corina:And I would love to take you out for a drink after you finish your time at TFI to celebrate your time. If you're up for it.
Farrah:Oh, I'm definitely up for it. We've we've had this in the books for a know.
Corina:Gotta make it happen.
Farrah:It's happening. I'm ready.
Mariana:Next time on Lessons From The Couch.
Jacob Penrod:Part of the reason I am so grateful for the experiences I have had in queer communities and spaces is that gender roles are not something we can just take for granted if it's two men or two women in a relationship. We can't take monogamy for granted necessarily. So with that, if we don't have these narratives to rely on, what do we do? How do we figure these things out? And I feel so heartened knowing that people have been figuring out long before I ever have tried.