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Candid conversations for the church. Host is Ardin Beech of Windsor District Baptist Church, Sydney, Australia. Co-hosted by Jonathan Hoffman.
Welcome back, folks, for another episode of This Week at Windsor. Doctor j, welcome.
Jonathan:Arden Beach. Great to see you.
Ardin:Indeed. Indeed. Great to be back behind the mic.
Jonathan:Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful time. Well, we're in school holidays now. It's exciting times.
Ardin:It's so good.
Jonathan:How do you guys do school holidays? What's the what's the vibe in the beach home?
Ardin:Well, the old the older two doesn't make any difference. Ari sits at home and enjoys some homework free days, but I just love the no traffic. The traffic is, like, halved. It's amazing.
Jonathan:Tell me about it.
Ardin:I would save twenty minutes each way.
Jonathan:Yeah. Beautiful. That's the best. Yes. Well, the devices are definitely powered on in my house.
Ardin:Indeed. There's a lot of screen time.
Jonathan:Screen time. Kids going to bed later. Definitely feeling my age. Apologize for my voice. I'm just recovering from a bit of a illness.
Ardin:It was you spoke at a conference recently, I heard.
Jonathan:I did. I did. Yes. I got to present at an academic conference, Asia Pacific Early Christian Studies Society. Wow.
Jonathan:Apex.
Ardin:I didn't know that was a theme.
Jonathan:I didn't either before last year, but it was was it's it's one of these academic things. So, people who work in early Christian studies, which usually means, like, church fathers, patristics, that sort of stuff. They hold a conference every year. And this year was in Sydney. Next year, Japan.
Ardin:Oh, gotta go to that one.
Jonathan:I figured I gotta go to that one. Then the following year, they just do like a dinner or drinks in Oxford. I don't know that I can make that one. But the following year after that, they're looking at maybe Hawaii.
Ardin:Wow. This sounds like a very hoity toity bunch of people. Are we paying for this? Is this what's more untied this going? No.
Jonathan:But I did they put out a how it works is they put out a call for papers. And so, like, you know, I know when we were in school, like, you know, the teacher gives you a homework assignment. You're like, oh, I gotta write this thing. This you got this level of academic excitement. Hey.
Jonathan:Does anybody wanna write something? Please send us something you wanna write and we'll let you come and talk about it. Sweet. And so, yeah, I got to do that. And, that was real yeah.
Jonathan:Personally, it was great, but it it really drained any buffer that I had left fighting off the sickness that's been going around. So but I'm on demand, which is great.
Ardin:Hymns R Us is coming back?
Jonathan:Yeah. Hymns R Us coming up. Hey. Take the box over. Hymns R Us.
Jonathan:If you've never been to a Hymns R Us before, it's a great opportunity to really be around people who love to sing and sing some of the old songs, a lot of the old songs. I don't know how you would describe it Arden, but for me, the old hymns and praise courses, they're just written with a more joyful it's just a very like declarative, triumphant. Yeah, really profound
Ardin:Yeah. And there's a perhaps not so much these days, but there's a demographic there for whom hymns are extremely important. You know, singing hymns connected you to God and it was your worship and you you you know, they they were real to you and they made worship real for you. And and and the place is packed every time. Every Hymns or Us, it's full.
Jonathan:Chalkers. And, yeah, the Billy Graham Crusades, you know, a really prominent part of evangelical history in the last fifty years. Yeah. And a lot of people, as a generation that really came to faith in Australia through those campaigns. So, yeah, if that's you or you know someone in that demographic, yeah, encourage them to come along.
Jonathan:Hims R Us. It's on the October 18. You can go to our website, wdbc.org.au, and find out more by clicking on the events tab.
Ardin:Alright. Enough of all that stuff. Time to get to this week's guest. Welcome, Michelle Deroy.
Michelle:Hi.
Ardin:Mother extreme skateboarder, boss of Norwest Christian College, many labels joining us here.
Jonathan:Welcome, Michelle. We're
Ardin:To our lowly podcast.
Michelle:You've actually had my boss on your show from
Ardin:Are you not the boss?
Michelle:No. I'm not. I work for the boss. Let's just clarify that upfront.
Jonathan:Yeah. Well, we're we're glad to have you here, Michelle. You're a part of our community. You and your family have always been encouragement to me in the ten years I've been here. But, yeah, tell us a bit about where are you positioned in life right now?
Jonathan:What's what's what's a typical week look like?
Michelle:So I am a mom of two. I've got a son who's in year six and a daughter who's in year four. And so life's pretty busy with just them on their own. I also work full time at Norwich Christian College as the community engagement manager there, so that's pretty big full on role as well. I am a wife, a friend, a daughter, all of the above, auntie, in law, etcetera.
Michelle:And so, yeah, typical week's pretty busy, taking the kids to different things, working full time, and just trying to fit everything else in between.
Ardin:That's a pretty big job because, like, Northwest is really going gangbusters.
Michelle:It's just really is.
Ardin:How many students now?
Michelle:Oh, I should know this. I'm also the enrollments manager. Look. We're at capacity now, so it's about, you know, close to 1,300 students across preschool to year 12.
Ardin:With another campus on the way?
Michelle:It is. Yes.
Ardin:So what does the community engagement role involve?
Michelle:So community engagement manager oversees the marketing enrollments and community relations teams. So under that, there's also employees under there as well, but just helping look after those functions of the school. What really drives me in the role is the connection and the relationships. So the big goal, you know, summarized in three words is joy, connection, and belonging, which is really important and key as the school has grown so significantly in the last five years to maintain that. Because at the end of the day, Christian education, no matter which school that you go to, everyone has to study the curriculum.
Michelle:So it's math, science, English. It's the same across schools. And whether you're public, Catholic, independent, Christian school. It it is all the same. It's that extra layer.
Michelle:So for me, my kids also go to the same school. And so for me, as a parent, what I really love about it is having that extra foundation, that layer. It's a mission field. We often say that too, and I love that. But it's it's having that extra layer of Jesus in their lives, staff having that input in their lives, setting that foundation for them, and then having that connection in the community as well.
Michelle:You know, with so much changing in the way that community is now, so much is digital, so much is the way we learn things is different. Having that connection and having that as a priority is really important.
Ardin:How do you maintain that Christian layer you mentioned with the growth and with the influx of different cultures, backgrounds, faiths coming in?
Michelle:So one of the big things is we don't we have an open enrollment policy, so you don't have to be a Christian family to come. You do have to agree to be in partnership with us, though, with what we teach. So look. We we look heavily at reasons to partner. So why do you wanna come?
Michelle:You know, if it's down the street, well, that may not be as important. You know? Are you actually wanting to partner with us in in the, you know, the BPO framework with the, you know, the values that we've got? And the beauty of an independent school is that you actually don't have to come. And so there is that choice there, and is this the right fit for your family?
Michelle:I think it is important that, yeah, like, you have a mix of culture. I think, you know, that's really I love that my kids learn about different cultures, different faiths in, I guess, the foundation of a Christian environment. And so because that is the world, I I don't want them in a bubble. I want them to understand that, you know, there is different privilege for people, different socioeconomic status, different cultures and heritage.
Ardin:Alright. Let's change gears and just talk about you for a bit.
Michelle:Yeah. Go for it.
Ardin:Where did your journey start?
Michelle:I grew up in Blackland. I have a bit of a dynamic family. And by that, I am a child of my parents' second marriages. So I grew up with my brother and sister from my mom's first marriage, and I didn't grow up with my brother from my dad's first marriage. And so that was interesting.
Michelle:My parents became Christians when I was two. They both grew up with a faith. My mom grew up with a Catholic church, and my dad kinda grew up in, I guess, a Protestant church going family. But they started taking me to playgroup at the local church, which is why I get so passionate about it here at our church. And they mom moved, I guess, from Catholic to Baptist, and my dad was coming too.
Michelle:And so, yeah, our church was Glenbrook Baps. I grew up there. I ended up worship leading there when I was 12. I got baptized when I was 11 and gave my testimony. So a lot of people questioned that I was so young, but I was interviewed before I got baptized and passed all the tests.
Michelle:But I guess I just got it, not to toot my horn, but I I have had a maturity, I guess, in some things beyond my age. Other things, no. I'm still growing up in some things. And so I've been very blessed to have a lot of, I guess, leadership opportunities or roles of influence in Christian fields from a young age, but I can see how god has equipped me with different things to lead me to that. But I was involved in youth group at Glen Baps, then became a youth group leader, worship band in that.
Michelle:And then when I finished school, I went over and lived in Canada for eight months at Teen Ranch over there. That was a massive life growing opportunity when it was really cool.
Ardin:Huge.
Michelle:Yeah. So and then lots of trials and then came back from there, went up to Spring Baptist. That's where I met my husband, Darren, and fell in love. And he brought me back down to Windsor District Baptist. So I guess that's kind of a very, very quick journey.
Michelle:There's been a lot of challenges in between all of that, but I would probably describe my faith as a roller coaster. My husband's a steady rock. I am the crazy to his calm.
Jonathan:So as someone who that, you know, it it kinda clicked, and I I I hear what you're saying that, like, at a young age, you felt like, yeah, you seems like you had a sense that god was real and you wanted to belong and believe in this community. How did you navigate those years when life begins to really change? Whether that's the teenage years or late teens, early twenties when the world starts to open up to you, like, how did this kind of faith that was had been with you from the beginning but was small, how did that grow amidst this changing kind of environment?
Michelle:Look. I think when I was younger in primary school, there was a lot of loss for my age. I had a lot of people that I knew pass away, leave, move away at quite a young age. So I developed panic attacks not long after that, which when you look at the second surprised. I have anxiety and ADHD.
Michelle:I knew the anxiety younger. Not sure how the ADHD got missed, but that came later. I had to trust on something that was beyond my control, and I don't think I could probably reflect on that until I was much older and understood it better. But I think it was a a comfort to me, which is ironic because you can't see God. And the way that my brain works is my anxiety is often in things that I can't control or see.
Michelle:And so it was something that was like a calming it just made sense to me. As a Christian, I would say my faith isn't heavily on me reading the bible. It is very much on relationships, creation, and people's testimonies and the way that God is faithful through the ups and the downs. And so when I was younger, having all of that loss and my family going to church, I think I just kind of had that childlike faith of this is real. I can see God working in things.
Michelle:Whilst I didn't understand some things, I could see and feel his love and comfort. As I kinda got older into a teenager, when I had a bit more panic attacks and things like that around my anxiety, I would say I probably drifted a little bit more away from God, like early teens. And then I'd say I probably not recommitted my life again, but in year 11 is when I was like, I know it's not cool to be a Christian in a public academic high school. Now I even look back at, well, I was brave. But, you know, it just became more important to me that I was just seeing in people around me their faith through some of the hardest of circumstances and just how that was steady.
Michelle:And it was just there's something different about an authentic Christian and the way that they trust God and how actually that's very empowering to other people when they watch it. And I kinda was like, yeah. I want that faith.
Ardin:Were you able to then like, did that help kinda roll the anxiety back? Has that been a continuous thing? Are they is it better than than it used to be?
Michelle:Yeah. So say probably no. It got worse before it got better, like, most things too, if I'm honest. Going overseas on your own when you're 18, I mean, that put my parents through some great anxiety. But that for me was probably the strongest and closest I ever felt to God because I was young.
Michelle:I was on my own. I was in a Christian camp, but I had to trust him. And I grew up a lot just in being independent and homesick and making choices as an adult. Yeah. That was really good.
Michelle:I did come back home heart broken as you do in 18. No money. Then had to reestablish myself because, you know, all my friends had gone off to university and other things. And I came back, and it was almost like I was a year behind in a way. But then I wasn't at the same time.
Michelle:And so I had to find a job, had to resettle myself back into a community, and so that was really confronting. I had to find a new church because when I had gone, my youth pastor had moved on and, like, a lot of my friends had moved on. And so refining a community again. And I think maybe again, I can see it now. God's amazing.
Michelle:He he delivers on his plans. But I can see how that shaped me to where I am now with going through the experiences of joining a new community, what's important to you, what works well, what doesn't work well, what's a good experience for somebody, what would I like, what did I appreciate, and just the difference that that can make as well when it's done well.
Jonathan:As someone who's been abroad, done a few different things, but has kind of remained in this area. Can you enlighten someone like myself? How have things changed? What's what's the same? What's different about life here in Western Sydney?
Jonathan:What what are you noticing as you progress through life?
Michelle:I think culturally, it's shifting a lot. And with that comes a cultural shift in religions as well. And so I think we're, as a society, becoming less, I guess, bible based in all areas of life. And and, look, we see that in legislations being challenged. We see that in so many things.
Michelle:And so I think, yeah, that's changed. But, also, out this way was farming. I remember when I even lived in the Lower Mountains and driving out towards Richmond, which is where I now live, to go to the cinemas out there. It was like, we're going out to the country, and now it's, like, just down the road. And so and it's not.
Michelle:And, like, all the housing developments there. And so it it has changed, and that does change pace of of life. That changes culturally. It changes with face. That changes with the way that parents live their lives and activities.
Michelle:Like, there's so many now as a parent, you know, you've gotta do the sporting. You've gotta do you know, I take my kids to OT in psychology. You've got speech. You've got academic tutoring for some people. You've got all of these band, choirs, youth groups, bible studies.
Michelle:Like, you've got all of these things, and then everything that you want on technology is on demand and available. Like, you just have to wait a whole week for the next episode for something, and now you can binge watch it in one night. And, like, affects culture because people are staying up later. People are binge watching TV instead of in the ads you chat, and then you go back. You know?
Michelle:Like, only people from my generation and older understands the nervousness of quick run to the bathroom in the ad break. Yeah. And then quickly make it back before the show goes back on again.
Ardin:Or you breaks before I do on homework.
Michelle:I didn't see. I didn't like, know, the sibling not to, you didn't tell me it was back on. Like, you know, like, generation does not know that everything is on demand. And that makes it harder to parent because at least you could say, well, there's nothing I can do. It's whatever comes on.
Michelle:Like, the radio. Like, I refuse to be on demand DJ in my car. Like, the kids just have to listen to the radio. Can't you put them in the song? No.
Jonathan:I really appreciate you sharing with us about, yeah, just the mental health side and, you know, with anxiety, ADHD. There's I think it's it's quite common, actually. A lot a lot of people
Michelle:Very common.
Jonathan:Kind of battling.
Michelle:Lot of people don't talk about it.
Jonathan:That's right. So I appreciate you you bringing that up. And, know, I'm looking at, like, we we all here have children that were in the process, various processes of raising. And you take career, you take parenting, and then you take this kind of changing dynamic that we have in our world, and it feels like this toxic cocktail of stress. And so my question is, what gives you rest?
Jonathan:Where do you find just a little bit of joy? Like, take take us into, like, if if Michelle just needs to revive. Like, Michelle needs to revive. What's the what's the revive recipe?
Michelle:My husband would tell me not to share this because I'm so uncool. It's ridiculous. I'm an overshare. So I love to do puzzles. And if I'm not doing a physical puzzle, I am that cool and have logic puzzles on my phone to do.
Ardin:No. That's still cool. Yeah. And then a lot of cool people do that. Yeah.
Ardin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know anyone, but I'm sure they're out there.
Jonathan:Yeah. We We may have physical puzzles in the process of being done at my house right now, so I I I'll count that as cool.
Michelle:So it's like this just yeah. Yeah. I'm a really fun person.
Ardin:Do you do Lego?
Michelle:Yes. Yes. I would love to do.
Ardin:See, Lego is cool.
Michelle:I don't have enough Lego. You
Ardin:never do? And you never can.
Jonathan:Puzzles are a lot cheaper than Lego. Yeah.
Michelle:I tried to get the kids into Lego.
Ardin:You only buy Lego now because you couldn't afford it as a kid.
Michelle:So expensive. You still can't afford it. It's so ridiculously expensive.
Jonathan:What is something that you think you've come to appreciate about this faith community that you're in that maybe, yeah, is something that you only might get the benefit of seeing because of you've been here for a while. You've sort of seen the ups and downs in the long haul.
Michelle:I actually shared this recently. I'm on the HR committee here at church as well, and we were talking to someone who was looking to join and shared just what I loved about it. The best way to describe it was like it was like a family. And so, you know, you've got the odd uncle. You've got the the funny cousin.
Michelle:You've got the the one that you get up to mischief with. You've got the one that you cry with. That's what I've really appreciated. I've really loved when I started coming here because Jared and I had the choice of, you know, does he start coming with me up to Springwood, which I'd only been at for a little bit, or do I come down here? And because we wanted you know, it was important for us.
Michelle:You know, God first, our relationship second. And so I came down and visited here, and I just got this instant vibe of, yeah, this is the right fit. Now I wouldn't say I'm a Baptist. I'm probably more of a happy clappy Baptist. I don't know.
Jonathan:Bapticostal is what we call it.
Michelle:Yes. Love it. I'm a bapticostal.
Ardin:I didn't even know there was a thing. There we go.
Michelle:I'm definitely a bapticostal.
Ardin:I'm probably one of them
Michelle:Yeah. You'll see me clapping sometimes. You know? If I'm really feeling wild, the hands might go up.
Jonathan:Please clap.
Ardin:Yeah. Please clap. Yeah. The Frozen Chosen?
Michelle:Yeah. Man.
Ardin:Love
Jonathan:it. Can I just tell you, there are more people out there who want to clap? There are. I'm serious. I talk to them.
Jonathan:They're like, I just wish people clapped. I wish we were a little more boisterous. I'm like, I know. A lot of people's the same, so just do it.
Michelle:I can start a revolution if you want to. Know, I like
Ardin:to influence. Bring it on.
Michelle:So, yeah, I just I think I really like just relatable being real. And that was one of the first things that I really appreciated when you came to the church was that I still remember this. You're up doing a sermon and your youngest son came up and just started standing next to you on state on Lichten. And I loved how you're like, well, this is what it is. You know?
Michelle:And I was like, that is that's my pastor. You know? Like, that that's someone that, you know, you can relate to. That's real. And and that's what I really look for, like, in relationships and even, like, in my working relationships.
Michelle:That's what I love about my boss and my colleagues is that they're real relatable people that I don't feel like I can't be myself with. Not that they have a choice, but, you know, I just love that you feel accepted with who you are because, you know what, that's what God does with us. So that's actually how we should do it with other people.
Jonathan:I thought we would get into more of our hilarious history together. You and I famously did a promo.
Michelle:I've been watching that at the moment. They didn't do it as well as we did.
Jonathan:Yes. We we did a promo for the Amazing Race.
Michelle:We did The Amazing Race.
Jonathan:We did. Jonathan and I.
Michelle:We hosted The Amazing Race.
Jonathan:Wow. It was quite yeah.
Ardin:On television.
Michelle:No.
Jonathan:No. WDBC TV.
Ardin:Don't get any ideas.
Michelle:We've also done how well do you know your pastor?
Jonathan:Yes. That was good.
Michelle:And trivia night. Yeah.
Jonathan:As you said, you're an over sharer. I I know your husband, and he is not what I would call an overshare.
Michelle:No. He's we're talking cheese. Yeah.
Jonathan:This is a generation that I'm finding is struggling with relating relationships, knowing how to talk to people, how
Michelle:to,
Jonathan:like so wind back the clock. You don't have to tell us how many years, but wind back the clock. How does this reserved,
Michelle:put it
Jonathan:mildly, and and an overshare? Like, does that dynamic shift as the relationship goes, or do you, like,
Michelle:like Yeah. So do know what was interesting? We did the marriage counseling before we got married, and we usually do, like, a little quiz type of thing. And our communication was, like, crazy high good Wow. Which surprised us because I wouldn't say that I feel that that's the case now.
Michelle:I would say I have in my mind how it's gonna be and he has in his mind how it's gonna be.
Ardin:I feel like Jared really needs to be here to defend himself. Yeah.
Michelle:No. I'm not saying mine's right. His is usually right. But just totally different. Like, we are very, very different in the way we approach things.
Michelle:However, we're very united and unified on our love for god, our love for our kids, and our priority of our marriage. And so I think all of the quirks and all the other things in between makes it interesting. We do communicate really well, and he's just a really great patient, godly guy. He's helped me through really, really hard times. My parents split up about a month after we got married.
Michelle:There was lots of stuff with our family. We've had losses go through with friends. Jared and I have a mutual friend who passed away nearly two years ago, and we've gone through that together. And, you know, his mom has had health things. His dad has had health things.
Michelle:My family have had health things. And so I think when you go through that with someone our kids have a lot of health issues as well. I didn't mention that earlier, but both of our kids have autism and ADHD as well. And so Harlow was in and out of hospital, in fact, Jonathan first started. In fact, that's my first introduction to Jonathan is I just had Harlow at hospital.
Michelle:And Jared gets a text saying, hey. I'd love to come meet you guys. And I was like, can we get home from hospital first? Love the hospitality and welcoming. That that story will forever cough, man.
Michelle:Was, like, just maybe a week would be great. Keen to meet you, though.
Jonathan:Thank you for letting me
Michelle:know. No. You're right. No. But it resonated with me.
Michelle:I'm like, this guy is really friendly. Great.
Ardin:As a parent of children with autism Yeah. I'm not looking for, like, a clinical psychologist
Michelle:kind of view or anything.
Ardin:But as someone who lives with it every day
Michelle:Yeah.
Ardin:Are we seeing more of it these days because we know what to look for, or is it more prevalent these days because of, I don't know, life factors or whatever the case
Michelle:may be? This is the hot topic. Right? Like, you
Jonathan:know I'm not talking Tylenol.
Michelle:Oh, shit. Tylenol. I I I'm not a psychologist. I'm not a doctor. My experience, though, from enrollments is definitely more cases of children with diagnosis is definitely coming through.
Michelle:I do believe that look. Yes. There might might be other things, but, genetically, I can definitely see it in both sides of our families. So it's definitely come genetically for our kids. And so, you know, look, if it's a genetic thing, then, yeah, well, that makes sense.
Michelle:Right? If you see more kids, you're gonna genetically, the odds are gonna increase. Right? But even things like ADHD, the way that technology is now and on demand too, that's gonna be an interesting thing to see how that affects. And the way that even with autism, the way that, you know, things have to be a certain way and, like, I can share this about my son.
Michelle:He talks about it as well. We've been very open with the kids growing up because, you know, God doesn't make mistakes. He makes you who you are. This is a superpower in some things, and it's a challenge in other things. We all have needs in some shape or form.
Michelle:And this is just, you know, the way that your brain works for this. I'm very like my son Heath, and my husband's very much like Harlow. And so, you know, that helps too in the way that we can relate with them.
Jonathan:It's interesting to watch like from historical perspective as we get these big revolutions that come, you know, think about the industrial revolution, think about, you know, now the information age. When society becomes really dependent upon the latest innovation, the latest thing, I think it's easy to think that that to pin our hopes to that, you know? It's kinda like the old adage, you know, if you're carrying around a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If this is just what you fill your mind with, you fill your life with, it defines if you let this stuff define you as a person to the core, not saying there's anything wrong with diagnoses or Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan:You know, labeling things. But like if you let this define who you are and then your existence becomes about it then ultimately that's where we see the human limitations because God says I I say who you are. Exactly. There's something tremendously freeing and liberating about that. And to say, wow you made me like this and you love me.
Jonathan:Yes. I did. And I do. And, like, that just it just changes the whole conversation, and and it it it brings me such calm and comfort. But I'm really appreciative of you, Michelle, for, yeah, just being open about this stuff.
Michelle:Great.
Ardin:You said there's been highs and lows. Give me a God high, a moment when god just stepped into a situation and changed everything.
Michelle:I'd say probably the high was bringing Jared into my life. I'd had a pretty crappy few boyfriends before him. I think, you know, as a young girl who just, I think, wanted to people please and wanted to be loved back. Like, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I I share my feelings.
Michelle:You know? And so to finally meet someone who gave me the love and the courtesy back and the respect back that I had wanted really probably changed my life. You know? Like and and to have a really godly guy who is my rock. Like I said before, my, you know, my face like a roller coaster.
Michelle:I'm glad I married someone who's really stable because he he is my rock. Look. There's so many god highs, but, like, that's probably one that obviously has changed my life because I mean, obviously, the main high is having the relationship with him. But, you know, setting up my future and bringing me someone that loves the lord wholeheartedly and in a in a manly way too. Like, I don't I don't know if I'm saying that right, but, like, he is very confident in his faith.
Michelle:And so for someone who has anxiety and has struggled with doubt and things like that, it's just so nice to be doing life with him and to have that sort of in person assurance sometimes to just redirect me back to, you know, the things that I know and trust and believe.
Ardin:Well, thank you for joining us on the podcast.
Michelle:Did you have fun? I did have fun.
Jonathan:So grateful that you came and shared with us.
Michelle:Yeah. Thank you.
Jonathan:Appreciate you opening your your life and your story. And, yeah, pray that it's been an encouragement to everyone who's listened.
Michelle:Yeah. Hope so. Thanks.
Ardin:Michelle Deroy. Well, a lot of honesty there and a lot of stuff to go through.
Jonathan:Yeah. So refreshing. And that's one of the things I think you hear the familiarity of someone who's been in this church for a while, someone who's been in the church family, established relationship, who feels safe to share honestly about their life. And I think that's one of the unique things that the church can be in our society today is a space where people who might not be related biologically, but who have a deeper connection in in grace feel free to share and feel free to be open. And and, you know, I learned a lot.
Ardin:Well, well, thanks for coming along once again, doctor Jay. We will do it all again soon.
Jonathan:Looking forward to it.