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Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
All right, Sheila
That's not, that's not one
I've ever heard before.
Really?
I had one guy at work
who called me Joshstrich.
That was a funny nickname.
All right, you guys ready?
Now I am.
Okay.
I just interviewed Jessica Ho- Hohfeldt.
She's the one that does,
um, uh, healthy sexuality.
Okay.
She's awesome.
She- She was at the
podcast, or at the UCAP.
Great.
Welcome to another episode
of Unashamed, Unafraid.
We are unashamed of sexual addiction
recovery, and not afraid of
coming unto Christ for healing.
Welcome back to another
Live Unashamed episode.
Woo!
In the house we've got The Hulk of Hope.
yep, that's me.
As I raise my hand so some of you guys
can't see me raising my hand, that's me.
And Shua.
He hates, he hates the name Shua.
I don't remember having such a-
Joshua ⦠visceral response to that name.
But, uh, yeah, Shua, I'm here.
How are you guys?
Dope.
Umâ¦
I know Chris is dope.
I should have started with-
Chris is always, Chris is always
dope ⦠we all know Chris is dope.
We all know Chris is dope.
Not always.
I have issues sometimes,
and I, I struggle sometimes.
My heart's pretty heavy.
Yeah.
My heart's, yeah, pretty heavy.
My wife's at Glory right now,
and I relapsed yesterday.
She doesn't really have cell reception
for the next two days, and it's just hard.
I've just been sitting in it.
So who were you accountable to?
Well, I talked to my sister
yesterday- Sweet ⦠uh, at lunch.
We went out to lunch.
I talked to Mason yesterday.
Uh, I talked to James today.
Now I'm talking to you guys.
So I, I- Good deal ⦠found
other people, for sure.
Awesome.
And it's been, it's been
really helpful, actually.
But my heart's just still a little heavy
from it, because it's really, really
hard on her, and it gets even harder
when I've processed for several days,
and then, I tell her and it devastates
Speaker 6: her, she
has to go through her
own emotional process.
So it's just heavy.
It's just heavy.
I'm struggling.
Yeah.
Speaking of that, isolating, guys.
That's why I relapsed.
She was gone, and suddenly I was
alone and- So let me ask, was it
a planned isolation, where you're
like, "I know she's gonna be gone.
She's gonna be gone for three days.
Opportunity presents itself."
Yeah.
"I'm gonna go."
Well, it wasn't an
unplanned isolation, right?
Because if you don't intentionally make
choices the addiction will come to you.
Right.
So I say it wasn't unplanned.
So, so not planning safety- Totally, yeah
to keep yourself safe, right?
I didn't, I didn't make, I didn't
make it intentional decisions about
how I was gonna live a connected
life while my wife was gone.
Yeah.
It's usually just like, oh yeah, I come
home every evening after work, and,
you know, we watch an episode of The
Chosen, and then we eat dinner, and
like it, it's planned into the day.
So that's an area I struggle.
Uh, but I had talked to her, and I had
said like, "Hey, I'm feeling triggered.
My brain just keeps flipping that
switch on that's telling me like,
'Hey, Jasmine's gonna be gone.
And it was, it was aggressive in the
way that thought kept coming back into
my head, so I talked to her about it.
But that, I, I just didn't make a plan.
How am I going to connect?
How am I going to take
advantage of my community?
And- So in that, in that moment, so
going back, because it's show reason-
Yeah ⦠why did you isolate, man?
Like, what was it that you're like,
"I'm just gonna go and do this, and
I'm not gon- I'm not gonna reach
out to anybody before I act out.
Like, I'm, I'm just gonna isolate."
'Cause I'm super upset with Jasmine.
I haven't handled it well
I've been super upset with her on
a, uh, about a number of things.
some of them rightfully so, some of
them probably are pretty immature, but
like There's been a lot of unprocessed
emotion, which I have not taken to
anyone but her Which now she's gone, I
can isolate and take care of it, right?
Take care of it in quotes 'cause
porn never takes care of it.
I'm having a hard time
adjusting to being married.
And, uh, we talked a couple
episodes about how I'm gonna commit
to using my brotherhood better.
Well, I have, but it's, there's
tears, and I don't live a connected
life outside of calling my brothers
one or two times, well, maybe three
times a week, and then my wife.
Like, there's just
I'm just n- my heart's not alive, So
do you mind if I point something out?
Yeah, go ahead.
All right.
So when I asked the question,
like, "Why did you isolate?"
Mm-hmm.
You said 'cause you were mad at Jasmine.
Yes.
Right?
Yep.
Would it be because you chose to
isolate because you just didn't
know how to manage your emotions?
Yeah, totally.
That's totally what it, what it was.
, 'Cause that, that's where, that's
where we get our power, right?
Right.
For you to get your power back
in that instead of saying,
"Hey, I'm blaming her for that."
Right?
And I know you're not
intentionally like blaming her.
Right.
But that's where it comes out.
Like you're just- Well, no, I, I actually
think I am intentionally blaming her.
Totally.
So, and blame- I'm pissed ⦠right?
And it's been building.
And so blame is the discharge-
Right ⦠of pain and discomfort.
Right.
A quote from, uh, Brene Brown.
Right.
Right?
So in that it's like, okay,
so what am, what am I doing?
So why, why do I wanna isolate?
Well, 'cause I don't wanna face
really what's going on for myself.
Right.
Right.
So if I ask the question
now, why did you isolate?
Uh, because I haven't taken ownership
for my own emotions- There's some
conversations I need to have about
couple things in our relationship
that I feel deeply frustrated
with, that I continue to avoid.
Sam: Yeah.
Right?
And that is where I've been
for a couple months now.
I thought getting married,
I was like, "Nah, I'm good."
Like, I have really worked on my ability
to say how I'm feeling, and then as soon
as, as soon as Someone wants to have
sex and the other person doesn't, , or
as soon as I feel like I'm putting
in more towards some shared goal we
have than she is, suddenly I clam up.
Mm.
And then if I go to her and I have a
conversation with her about it and she
reacts poorly, I don't set a boundary,
I just shrivel up and blame her.
Yeah.
Right, so you see, you
see what's going on there?
Totally.
I'll get stopped at one of
those two pinch points and just
get frustrated and blame her.
Dude, that's, that's why, like,
ownership and accountability-
Yeah ⦠is so freaking hard.
Totally.
And that's why it's so hard to reach out.
That is like, I, I mean, we, we
talked about it in one of the
episodes where we're like, "What's the
hardest thing you did in recovery?"
Making the damn call when
you're in the temptation is
one of the hardest things ever.
Right.
Why?
Because it's so freaking hard to
take the accountability in it.
Yeah.
Because we just wanna
blame everything else.
Right.
Right?
Because we're uncomfortable.
There's a long time, too, in recovery
where calling someone in the middle of
being tempted is nowhere in your mind.
That's not- You're, that,
that's just not even aâ¦
Like, somebody would ask me,
like, "So why didn't you call?"
And it's like
Is that even possible to- Yeah ⦠to
be in the spiral and, and, and
to think of calling someone else?
Right.
But, uh, that does get easier
with time, but it's never easy.
Yeah.
Dude, and thatâ¦
But when people ask, you know, "What
was it that was a big thing for you?"
That is one of the biggest game-changers
in my recovery- Yeah ⦠was picking up
the phone and making the freaking call.
Yeah.
'Cause it was scary, it was hard, and
then I had to start taking accountability
for it, and really, like, talking about
my emotions, 'cause I'm like, I'm a mess
and I'm pissed off and whatever I got.
I've got resentment.
And then what was cool was, like,
the guys showed up for me in that.
That's- They're like,
"Let's talk about it."
Yeah.
And we'd have these amazing conversations.
And the temptation, gone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it, yeah.
Having a conversation like that really
helps you to see things clearly, 'cause
your warped, like, addicted mind.
Like you said, we're blaming,
we're blaming the wrong people.
We have, like, everything that
we're, that's going through our
mind is just, it's all lies.
And then when you can sit down
with someone else and just, like,
talk it out, all of a suddenâ¦
Or just texting it out
to someone sometimes.
Just, like, voicing it, thinking
it from your head onto your phone
or out of your mouth, into someone
else's ears, can really help you
just see things as they truly are.
I've, the reason we're
doing this topic right now
Speaker 2: is because
, , I've been isolating, I
feel like, for months now.
Speaker: But I've
had, I've also had sobriety for
months now, but it's not recovery.
I had this happen at my darkest moments
in my life, too, when I was just
really depressed, where my drive for
anything just went away, including
sexual drive, and I would get sobriety.
But I wasn't, like, healing.
And like, when I started going to
therapy and I, like, told my therapist
that I had, like, acted out on
pornography, he was like, "Well, that's
a good sign that you're feeling."
And I was like-
⦠"What?"
But like, he was like, "I'd say
that's, you know, that's showing,
that's showing that your, your
mental health is improving."
And I was like, "I guess so."
Um, but like, but right now I've
been, I've been isolating a lot and-
Not because I want to act out.
I don't really know why I'm isolating,
'cause it doesn't make sense.
Like, we just sat here and talked about
it for forever, and like I understand.
Sometimes I'll understand something, but
I won't believe it in a certain moment.
Is it because it feels,
because it feels natural?
Because you've been doing it for so
long in so many different parts of
your life and aspects of your life
that you're like, "I'm just isolating
because that's just what I've done."
That's just what I do.
That might be it.
It's what I've done in the past, and so
it just feels like, like I'm not like
intentionally doing it, it just, I am.
Yeah.
Like I'm in a place right now where
I'm like, I refuse to isolate.
Speaker 7: Like I
had tons of changes in my life over
this last year, and then I, I had a,
a buddy of mine took his life, um,
let's see, a week and a half ago.
Oh.
And his funeral is coming up this,
this Friday, and, um, like immediately
I'm like, "Nope, I'm not isolating."
I, I mean, I was with Autumn.
It was 11:15 at night, so I
wasn't, with anybody else.
So but I just sat there and just
cried, and I just let Autumn hold me.
I like talked to her about what I was
feeling, so I didn't isolate in that.
And then, the next day one of my
buddies called me and was like,
"Hey, let's talk about Gabe."
And I'm like, "All right, I'm at the gym."
I'm at the gym picking up this call,
and I know why he's calling me.
And we just start talking,
and I just start bawling.
I'm at the gym.
And he's like, "Where you at?"
And I'm like, "I'm at
the gym in Riverton."
And he's like, "I'm on my way."
Wow.
And so he met, met me
there, and we just went.
I sat in his car for like an
hour and 45 minutes just talking.
And I'm like, I, I refuse to isolate
because I refuse to do this on my
own because I'm like, I'm notâ¦
I'm, I don't wanna be in a
place of doing this on my own.
I've seen and experienced over and
over and over the benefits of not doing
this on my own, because I lived most
of my life trying to do it on my own.
Yeah.
And I'm like, "Nope, I'm not
doing it on my own anymore."
Well, something I learned about myself,
and I think is a pattern for, for most
people as soon as that wound comes in,
almost in every single case, the thing
that happens right after that, right?
There's, there's a decision, something
about my identity, something about who I
am, something about what I'm capable of.
And then the second lie, which is
therefore I have to do it alone.
I'm unworthy of people's love, therefore
I have- Mm-hmm ⦠to do it alone.
Yeah.
I'm not good enough, so
therefore I have to do it alone
i'm not important
Speaker 8: enough
for them to care.
Yes.
And- Like, I shouldn't burden
somebody with this because, like,
I'm not that big of a deal anyway.
Totally.
So- Totally ⦠I'm just
not gonna call anybody.
I, I feel that one.
I feel that one frequently.
In f- I, I f- I felt like I heard that
in your voice this morning actually,
Joshua, when we were on the phone.
Yeah.
Totally heard that one.
So that's, that's how we got on this
subject tonight of- Yeah ⦠like,
"Hey, how do we, what do we wanna
talk about and live unashamed?"
And tell the story.
Like, why, why are we here
talking right now about isolating?
Oh, boy
Um, there's just so
much going on right now
My, just, uh
Um, yeah, I mean
We got financial stress
at our house right now.
Our landlord raised rent three hundred
dollars every month, and then at
the beginning of the year, we got
a dental bill that was six thousand
dollars we owed that they were
threatening to send to collections.
And we tried to get them to let us split
it up, and they only let us divide it
into three payments, so we had to pay on
top of rent, two thousand dollars every
month for the last three months, and
And, uh, every time something
like this happens, I always, um
I feel like a terrible provider.
I feel like I'm not measuring
up as a father, as a husband.
There's a lot of stress at work
right now where I feel like, um
The whole company could just
fall apart at any given moment.
And, um, I don't feel bad talking
about it on here 'cause I've
talked about it with my boss.
He, he feels the same way.
We're both, we're both, like, living in
this reality of like, if we, if we can't
get this to turn around, we're gonna
have to, we're gonna have to give up.
I'm gonna have to get a new job.
He's gonna have to get a job
doing something else, and that
stress has been weighing on me.
And, and a huge part of my recovery has
been, uh, fitness, when I had nothing
else in, uh, my life going for me, I
started trying to, , have one thing I
could have some sort of positive influence
on in my life, and it was my health.
And, uh, I've been doing that for a
long time, and then I had these hernias
that I had surgery on in February.
And then I recently-- I
think I re-herniated them.
I don't, I don't know for
sure yet, but I've, uhâ¦
It feels just like it did, and I, I
can't work out, uh, again, and I'm
worried I'm gonna have to have surgery
again and just be laying in bed and
just undoing any progress that I'd made.
And, and, and what I've found too with
fitness is, you know, the, the physical
side of it is why I started doing it.
But, why I kept doing it was 'cause
of the mental benefit that I get from
doing it, and I just haven't had that.
And, all I've done is just
Uh, kind of spiral in all these
different places for different reasons.
I could go on.
There's, there's more, but I just, uh, um
So this is what I love
about what just happened
What I was getting at is what happened
with the call this morning when
Sam was calling to say, "Hey, you
need to come into the recording."
And then you just really, like,
broke down of why you're isolating.
Because a few minutes ago you said,
"I'm isolating for the last four
months, and I have no idea why."
And now look what just happened, man.
That's why you're isolating
I just hate that my
response is to isolate.
Like, I know that's not what I
should do, but that's just whatâ¦
And it, it's, it's disappointing that
that's my response when I know better,
but that's just what I've been doing.
I had something happen today
that, uh, was really weird.
That made me feel like, you
know, even though I've beenâ¦
Uh, and I've been
Speaker 10: isolating from
more than
Speaker 11: brotherhood.
I've been isolating from God
, and I've been, um, feeling
really distant from him.
And I just had this moment today
where I was picking up my kids,
and I'm just feeling all the
weight of everything that's going
on and feeling really down, and
I'm waiting for my kids to come out
of school, and this little girl comes
out who is friends with my daughter,
and I just waved at her and smiled.
And she walked past me, and I'm
just scanning for my kids, and I
turn, and she's, like, right next
to me just, like, looking up at me.
And I was like- Like, outside the window?
No, I was standing- Or you
were in a- ⦠outside my car.
Oh, okay.
And she's just standing next to me
looking up at me, and I was like
Can I help you?
I, I was, I didn't know what to say.
And then she just, like, opened
up her arms and she gave me a hug.
And I was like, "What the heck?"
And I just, um- Mm
I, I didn't even, like I don't
even know this girl that well.
Like, she plays with
my daughter sometimes.
I, I don't talk to her, like, ever.
And, uh, I don't know, man.
She must have just ⦠I, I said, "Isâ¦"
I said, "Are you okay?"
And then she didn't stop
hugging me and she just looked
up at me and said, "Are you?"
And
Uh, just started, like, crying.
Dude, what a freaking love
note right there, man.
The thing is, is after that happened,
I was in here and I started writing
down like, you know, I may have been
pulling myself away from the Lord,
but the Lord has been fighting for me.
And I started going back and
looking and, like, you know,
likeâ¦
I, I've had calls from Sam.
I've had calls from Mason,
multiple calls from both of them.
Uh, Josh Westover, Adam Salisbury, people
I've never had reach out to me before.
Doug Nielsen reached
out to me the other day.
He's never reached out to me before.
And, uh, he's someone that I,
I kinda, I kinda fanboy over.
He's, like, you talked about feeling
not important enough to, like,
have a brotherhood with someone.
Doug's one of those people for me.
Yeah.
And he, uh, I was in- His heart's
huge, man ⦠I was in Ohio with
Adam, and Adam's like, "Doug's
asking for your information."
And I was like, "Doug Nielsen?"
I was likeâ¦
He's like, "Yeah."
I was like- You're like, "Give it to him.
Give it to him."
I was like, "Okay."
And he just wanted to see how I was doing.
And, uh, and I didn't put it all
together when I was seeing it all happen.
My dad sent me the most beautiful
message I've ever received from
anyone in the last few days as well.
Like, and I, somehow in the darkness of
everything, like, all of these came to
me, and I was just closed off, and they
all just, none of them broke through.
But something about that little
girl today, just like really
opened the floodgates and, and
then I put it all together in here
and it just, you know, God'sâ¦
he's good.
A lot of times, I've thought the idea of
positive affirmations are just stupid.
I hated them.
And, uh, and I just realized one
day that the reason I hated them
was because I didn't believe them.
When I would look in the mirror and
say them, it just felt dumb 'cause
I didn't think they were true.
But I did have other words, you know,
that would go through my mind when I
looked at my reflection in the mirror,
and they were not positive ones.
And you would believe those?
I believed them.
Didn't feel weird saying those ones.
Hmm.
And Doug Nielsen actually, on his episode
on here, said it's impossible over time
not to behave the way you see yourself.
And I saw the antithesis of
what he was trying to say.
He was talking about positive
affirmations, and I saw that
happen in the negative aspect to
the point where I believed them so
much I wanted to end my own life.
When he said it, I was
like, "I know that's true."
And I just was like, "How, how
can I believe those other words?"
And,
You can't not believe them
when they come from God
And I feel like I've, I've, I've
been feeling that again today.
Just feeling, you know, how much He loves
me and what He thinks about me and what
He's willing to do to try to help me.
Like He's been, He's been
fighting so hard while I've just
been feeling sorry for myself.
And, uh, it doesn't make sense that
That he would, do all that
for me, but but he does.
You can't not believe it
when it comes from God
Anyway.
See what happens when you don't isolate?
Chris
When you really didn't wanna reach
out, but you started doing it anyway.
Mm-hmm.
What, uh
What made the change?
Not reaching out wasn't working.
Mm.
I wasn't finding
sobriety, I wasn't finding
Speaker 12: joy again
. I wasn't doing the things.
I was still acting out, and I'm like,
"Something's gotta be different.
I have to operate differently
than what I'm doing right now.
And if it's making these calls, I'm
just gonna start making these calls."
And so I did.
It was just one more thing to break
me out of the addiction cycle.
And sometimes the temptation would go
away just by leaving the message or
someby, sometimes by sending a text,
but then sometimes it wasn't enough
just to make that call and leave- Mm
a message for somebody.
I had to get someone on the line because
it was, like, in my body and I was
still feeling it and I'm like, "Man,
I gotta do something to get rid of
this because I don't wanna act out."
Mm.
So I'm like, "I'm calling somebody
to talk about it and figure it out."
I remember one
Speaker 13: time
I
had a real estate
Speaker 14: agent of
mine that came in and
she, she was beautiful.
And she came in and she was wearing
pants that had ripped in her crotch.
And so immediately I noticed,
and then when she left,
Speaker 3: I was like,
in my head, "How can I reach out to her?
What can I do?
What can I say that would kinda get an
idea where she's at with her husband?
What wasâ¦"
You know?
This is years of sobriety
and this is coming out.
I'm like, "What the heck?"
Like, I'm like just stewing on
these thought processes, right?
And so I prayed and, like, felt
n- I, like, still dealt with this.
I'm like, "This is going."
Like, it's still going in my body,
and I dealt with it on my own
for four hours and it was, like,
constantly, "How can I reach her?
Howâ¦
What should, what should I,
what text should I send her-
Mm ⦠to, to try you know, find
my way into her life ," you know?
And I'm, like, going, "I need
to pick up the phone and call.
So I called my buddy Jim and
told him what was going on.
And when I did, the feeling was gone.
And I'm like, "Yep, still
need to keep doing this."
This is, this is still something that
works, so it's part of my system.
It's part of what I still do, and
if, if the temptation doesn't go away
bec- when I talk to God, I'm going
to my next thing down in my system,
and I'm going to my brotherhood
and I'm talking because it works.
It pulls me out.
I feel like it's my turn to say something.
I don't have anything to say.
I think I just feel the spirit of
what you guys are talking about
But yeah, like I said at the
Speaker 15: beginning
Isolating
isn't working It never works
Isolating isn't working.
I mean, it's just not working.
It, it will
so if it's not working, let's try
something different It's a lot of,
it's, it's like, yeah, like let's
stop blaming my wife for my problems.
Let's stop- Yeah ⦠this,
let's stop that.
It's not about her- 'Ca- 'cause
let me ask, were you acting
out before you got married?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Just checking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right?
Right.
Right, that's the thing, it's like
we wanna blame somebody, but it's
like- But she didn't introduce
the wound into my life thatâ¦
Right.
Right?
It's only- She, she, she never,
she never forced my head into the
pool of pornography, you know?
Right.
Like, Here's what I'm, I'm committing
to do, which is to double down on the
conversation we had about a mon- two
months ago, I think it was two podcast
recordings ago, where I talked about
taking advantage of, of community.
I've done more to share my
heart and reach out, right?
That's why Joshua and
I spoke this morning.
It's why I connected
with him last weekend.
I've been calling Mason more than ever.
But
Speaker 4: I
don't have any group support right
now and I haven't for about 14 months,
Speaker 5: and I
wanna start attending a group again
where I have a community of brothers
that I can draw on at any given time.
That feels like it's
important to me again.
When's that manual gonna be.
done?
Pretty soon here, but I'm notâ¦
I mean, here's what
I'm gonna do, actually.
I'll tell you what I'm gonna do.
You gonna go infiltrate an
ARP meeting and steal it?
Well, no.
We're working on theâ¦
No, we're working on the
Unashamed, Unafraid guidebook
But
there's nothing stopping me
from starting my own group now.
As you were speaking, as Chris
has been speaking, . i think
it's gonna help my relationship.
Yeah.
I think it's gonna help my
relationship with my wife a lot.
So that's what I'm committing to do.
Love it.
Joshua, what do you think, man?
I need to call some people.
Uh, like I just shared a bunch of examples
of connection that I had and- Yeah ⦠I
didn't call a single one of them.
Hmm.
It was all people reaching out to me.
It was the Lord reaching out to me
through my brotherhood that I've
been establishing over the years.
But, um
Yeah, I need to make some calls.
Sometimes, like, like Chris said,
sometimes a message will, will do
the trick, but- So I, I wanna, I
wanna invite you to be specific.
Then for you, Josh, like, is
it, is it tomorrow that you feel
like you need to call someone?
Is it like- Yeah.
Well, . i feel like I need to be-
I don't know if this needs to be
consistent, like if I need to make a
call every day, but I think for, for
a little while I do wanna do that.
And, and the person who comes
to my mind right now is Austin.
Uh- Sweet ⦠there's just so much
connection that I felt when he was sharing
his story, and I just, I feel like we're
in a really similar place in recovery,
so I'm gonna call Austin tomorrow.
Hmm.
Awesome.
Love it.
We wanna hear your thoughts.
Uh, email us, sam, chris,
joshua@unashamedunafraid.com.
Uh, we just wanna know, what's
your plan to get out of isolation?
What do you wanna do?
Don't leave us isolated.
Yeah.
Send us emails.
Yeah.
And, uh, frankly, I need it right now,
so I, I'd love to hear from you guys.
It's always fun to connect
and expand my, my community.
If somebody out there is listening
to this episode, and they have
something they need to send us-
you, we're talking to you right now.
Yep.
Pause it.
Open up your email.
If we don't get this
message, I'm gonna find you.
Guys, thanks for watching.
Uh, love doing these
Live, Unashamed episodes.
This certainly took a little bit
of, uh, weight off of my shoulders.
And, uh, Josh, thanks for
being so vulnerable, dude.
Yeah, love you.
Love your heart.
Thanks, boys.
Both of you guys.
I- I'm glad I called you this morning.
Me too.
I needed this.
Thanks for watching.
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