Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A podcast for multi-skilled coaches and experts who are ready to leverage their unique expertise, create money overflow all while embodying ease. Real conversations about integration, embodiment, and building a business that honors all of who you are. Solo episodes, guest interviews, and guided meditations.
Relinde (00:00)
I'm talking to Cheyenne and I'm very excited to talk to you Cheyenne. Thank you so much for doing this. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Cheyenne and I met in Lisbon more than a year ago now. Oh no, almost a year ago. Yeah. And I'm actually in your program. I really love the work that you're doing. And we're going to talk about like all that amazing stuff that you do. Just a little intro. Cheyenne has spent the past six years behind the scenes of some of your favorite Create-a-Lat brands, really big brands. And we'll talk about that a bit.
She's been strategizing funnels, running seven figure launches and ghost writing for your favorite newsletters. And she's now bringing everything she learned firsthand to our businesses, which is very cool coming with so much expertise. ⁓ I'm really grateful that I have access to you and that I'm learning from you. So thank you for being here today and welcome Cheyenne
Cheyenne (00:52)
my gosh, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I think it's going to be so much fun.
Relinde (00:56)
Yes. And let's dive in with that a little bit. you've been working, like, what do you want to share a bit? Like, what have you been doing? What's this six years of experience that you like, what was that? Tell us a little bit about it.
Cheyenne (01:08)
Yeah, I got my start at Donald Miller's company, Storybrand, and was there around the time that they were transitioning from Storybrand, which was all live workshops, in-person marketing events, to Business Made Simple, which was honestly one of the first online learning, online business course platforms, ⁓ which was really fun to be around. I started actually as the executive assistant.
and just kind of got to see all inner workings of the business and worked my way literally in the office across the hall to the marketing department where I was learning all about the marketing. We had our business mates in Blanche, which was the biggest launch that we had done so far. It was so much fun. And honestly, over the years spent about two years, I think at Storybrand ⁓ before I just kind of wanted my next thing and my next kind of growth opportunity.
And that brought me to Boss Babe as the senior copywriter. And I spent about a year as senior copywriter and then transitioned into head of content and marketing where I spent the next two years. ⁓ And at Boss Babe several years ago, people probably know about this, the founders ended up splitting. And so one of them kept the company and one of them exited.
The company transitioned a lot in that shift. And so I found my role went from truly being like leading strategy and overseeing a team to being a lot more in the weeds of marketing, like building automations and active campaign and doing some of the stuff that I was like, I'm not good at this and I don't really want to. ⁓ And so that's what led me to step out on my own. And at first that looked like CMO work. So being a fractional CMO for some really amazing creator led brands I got to work with.
Vanessa and Xander Marin. I got to work with Burnout to All Out, Miriam Laundrie Publishing, like some really, really cool companies during my time as a CMO. But ultimately the CMO role is very mile wide, inch deep. Like you are looking at all parts of the business. You're looking at team and hiring and org structure. And then you're also looking at paid ads and social media. And it just felt like a lot of marketing.
And in that process, I really realized the thing that I love the most is copywriting and funnels. And so that is where I have been spending the majority of my time now. I kind of restructured my business so that I get to spend my time working with creator led brands on how do we structure your funnel? Like, what are we going to do in what order? How are we going to sell this thing? And then once we have the structure in place, I work with them to write all the pieces of it because copy really leads your marketing. And it's really important there too.
Relinde (03:49)
And you're so brilliant at it. Like all the parts, there's such clarity to something that can feel really overwhelming. And we're going to actually talk about that. for, if you're listening to this, you're like, I need a funnel or we're going to talk about it. We're to talk about like what you need, when you need it and what it actually is a funnel, all the things. But I love knowing that whole journey that you had already working behind the scenes and you actually self-taught them, like going from assistant.
to right? that correct? Like actually teaching yourself like marketing and through all that and then being so brilliant at it. So it's definitely what you do.
Cheyenne (04:24)
Thank you. Well, and it was really cool because I think one of the things I got to see at Storybrand is they were very much reliant on funnels. Like they did not do a ton of live launches. Our business made Simple Launch was a very huge live launch. But other than their books, most of their products were being sold with the sales team granted very evergreen. Whereas when I first came to Boss Babe, everything was live launch reliant. And so the big initiative that I did there honestly
I say quite selfishly, I was getting so burnt out and I noticed my team that I was leading at BossBabe was getting so burnt out on live launching every month, every couple months, it was just a lot. And so my thought was how can we actually transition the structure from a live launch model where every month, every other month we are doing another huge launch, which is Lyft on the team pivoting all the stuff. How can we take that stress and instead have a more scalable structure of Evergreen? And so,
I'm proud that's like the stamp that I feel like I left on Boss Bay when I ultimately left was, hey, now we have some evergreen funnels that function for us. And from what I understand now, they're a very evergreen forward business now, which they weren't when I came in.
Relinde (05:35)
my God, that's such a huge impact. Like anybody listening who's been launching, like I did it for four or five years, like three, four, five day challenges a year. That was a lot. taught me everything, built my six figure business. All good. But now like having just one funnel that actually brings people in is just so nice. And then, yeah, I got them. I'm really happy that we're also working on optimizing that. And that's when it gets really fun, right? Because then you can get like nitty gritty and little shifts can make huge, huge impact.
Hey, and how's it been to be out there like yourself, like to not be behind the scenes for somebody else's business, but actually start your own? Tell us a little bit about that.
Cheyenne (06:16)
It's been really cool. I feel like I'm very blessed that I kind of got to take some baby steps in that transition. If you would have asked me when I was head of content and marketing at BossBabe, if I wanted to have my own business, I would have said no. Like I did not think that was for me. But the way that it worked out, I was able to basically take on one bigger client and then take on through being a CMO. I was able to take on a handful of clients through a CMO agency and then slowly transition to where it's fully my own.
I think what I really appreciate about the structure I have now is yes, I'm getting to be a business owner and run truly my own business. And at the same time, I still have that collaboration component of getting to look behind the scenes because a lot of my clients, basically kind of the ways that you can work with me or either you're working with me one-to-one and I'm truly behind the scenes in your business, looking at your funnel, writing your copy, giving you strategy. So I still have that feeling of like, I'm getting to support someone else and this is really cool.
At the same time with like the funnel method growing my own business, my own content, I get to have the full autonomy and creativity over my own stuff, which is really fun too. So it's been a, it was a really nice baby step transition versus I didn't have that moment where I had to take the full leap into entrepreneurship. ⁓ that would have felt really intimidating to me, I think.
Relinde (07:35)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get it. And a beautiful way that you transition that. And also you did something that we both talked about is so important. You did like a pilot version, which I was part of, of the funnel method. And then you created a funnel around it. Right. Yeah. We're going to talk about that. I want to talk about it. Also, I, you've been doing something that I really love in your social posts, in your newsletter. You've been talking about, we have to be like honest and real. And I really want this.
online business thing to not create these, what is it? know, things that we look up to, that we get intimidated by, but it's actually not real. me a little bit more because I really love how you're approaching that.
Cheyenne (08:16)
Yeah, thank you so much. wrote a newsletter about it a couple of weeks ago at the time that we're recording this, because I had seen a lot of posts about people calling it like the trust economy. And what that basically means is that as we're getting further and further away from this boom in online business in 2020, it feels like people are starting to lose their trust of online course creators and the symptom that we're seeing about is people just aren't buying the way that they used to. And so
What I observe a lot of businesses doing is they throw testimonials out. They're trying to throw all these metrics and all these numbers. And I think if we're being really honest as online business owners, there feels like there's this disconnect between I'm seeing this huge creator say that they just had another seven figure launch and they're doing better than ever. And they did half the effort and twice the money and all of this stuff. And we're like, but I'm not seeing that. Like I'm not even seeing a little bit of that in my own business.
⁓ And I think the trust economy breaks down less in you don't have enough testimonials, you don't have enough ⁓ metrics and stuff like that. I think it's breaking down more and I feel like these people aren't being honest with me. Like surely it is not this dramatically harder for earlier stage entrepreneurs and this dramatically easier for bigger entrepreneurs. ⁓ What I know from being behind the scenes at these brands is everyone's having a harder year this year.
And so what I'm really encouraging a lot of my clients is literally in a meeting a couple of weeks ago with a client about this where I said, you are one of the larger creators in the industry and people would kill to be in your team meeting where you're talking about what didn't work. Like we want to learn from your mistakes. We want to hear what's not working. You are like testing and failing so much faster than the rest of us because of the volume and the scale that they're at. And my encouragement to creators is like, you have to be more honest about
We tried this thing, it didn't work. We tried this other thing and it worked way better than we expected. And I think if bigger creators can be more transparent with their audience about that, say be 1 % more honest. If you can be 1 % more honest about what's really going on, I think that is going to do leaps and bounds for people trusting your business compared to your bragging about how amazing things are going, but behind the scenes, we can all tell that it's actually not going that well.
Relinde (10:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's so important. I really think that it's really beautiful what you're doing there. And ⁓ so important to not get caught up in this idea of what it is supposed to be, but actually be real. I really worry. Of course, there's a lot of potential if you like build your online business. All these things are true. But there's also the real hardships and the real...
or this is the figure that we made, but how much did you spend on ads? Something like that even, you know, I'm like, come on, like we all know that this is not pure profit. So yeah, was that number. Yeah.
Cheyenne (11:09)
And I'd encourage people listening to like just take when you see posts from big creators about their numbers and their metrics and how well they're doing. I'm not saying people are lying. I'm just saying take it with a grain of salt because there's probably like you said, there's more context. Maybe they had a seven figure launch, but they spent $500,000 on ads. Maybe they, you know, were able to do this, but they have a team of 20 who they're paying and their profit margins aren't as great. Maybe.
They tried five different messaging angles that all failed and were a scramble before they landed on one that worked. it's very rarely this, honestly, I would say very rarely if ever truly as simple as we put in half the effort, we made twice the money and we're all kicking our feet up at the beach somewhere. Like there's so much more work that goes into it. And I don't want online business owners to get down on themselves if it's not as easy and effortless as what these big creators are making it look like.
Relinde (12:01)
Yes, 100%. And I also have a big one that you have a team, even when you told me that when you were working on these bigger brands that, you know, everybody was, you said something like we have this tracking spreadsheets and like everybody's responsible for their own sheets and their own numbers. Even that was like a, like a brain. I was like, my God. Yeah. Because you're doing that all on your own. Or I even had, have hired people for social media, but I never thought of like giving them something like that. Those.
insights are like, wait a minute, but there's way more people working on this rather than you may be doing it with a VA and like one other person in your business. It's a very different situation and it's great. You know, it's good to know, but you can't compare it with somebody who is actually all these specialists on all these amazing roles in their team. yeah, yeah.
Cheyenne (12:49)
Totally. And you're probably doing better than you expect, than you even think you are. Like if you actually look at your conversion metrics, you're probably doing a lot better than you think. So don't be so hard on yourself.
Relinde (12:58)
Yes. Yes.
Okay. Love this. Hey, and we talked a bit about so people want a funnel, they all want a funnel or not. Actually, there's also like, I think people that like a funnel that sounds very broad marketing. Anyway, we have all this. Let's talk about a funnel. What is it? Like, why do we want it? Why do we not want it? me tell me all the things.
Cheyenne (13:18)
⁓ A marketing funnel, to me, the simplest way that I break it down for people is all a marketing funnel is, is giving people a next step. We get really caught up in different types of funnels, evergreen funnels, live launch funnels, all the pages in order, like you see with Kajabi or SamCart or ClickFunnels, like this page plus an order bump, plus an offer on the thank you page. Like it feels really frantic and chaotic when you think about funnels that way. So.
Deep breath, what I say to people is all a funnel is, is giving people a next step. You might truly have an online course where you have a lead magnet and then you send them into a webinar and then you sell them on the webinar into your course and then maybe they add on coaching calls with you. You just gave them next steps throughout your funnel. Yes, there's pages and emails and other things that go into it, but all you're doing is giving them a next step. At the same time, if you're a coach or a service-based business, your funnel might be a free download,
or a podcast into a coaching call with you, like a one-to-one discovery call into a proposal and selling them on your offer. So all you're doing is giving them the next step. It doesn't have to be as complicated as offers and order bumps and all of this craziness. All you have to do is figure out here is my end goal that I want to get people to buying my offer. And how do we work backwards from that end goal to figure out what steps do people need to take in what order in order to get to that end goal?
Relinde (14:46)
Yes. So, and everybody has a funnel in that sense, right? mean, even if you're just posting on social media and then inviting people into your DMs and then booking a call with them, it's a funnel. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And if I come to you, like, I'm like, I'm brand new, I don't have a business yet. I don't have any clients. I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing. Can we build a funnel? Tell me.
Cheyenne (15:08)
No, we can't. And we were talking about this before we even kind of started recording. It's a bit of a loop because the best product in the world, you could have the best product ever. It could be amazing. You know you get results for your clients. And if you don't have any way to sell it, again, even if it's not some complex high tech funnel, if you don't have a way to sell it, you're not gonna make any money. On the flip side, if you have the best funnel in the world,
but you're not sending them to a validated offer or you don't even know what offer you're working backwards from, the funnel doesn't matter. So I think people have to be really careful. And I truly say like, it has to start with an offer and an offer that's at least somewhat validated. I don't need to know that you've made multiple six figures already on this offer. That's not what I mean, but I need to know you've sold it. People are buying it. People are getting good results from it.
Now we can start to build a funnel, without that offer in place, what are we building a funnel for? Like I have nothing that I can work backwards from to get a sale.
Relinde (16:10)
Yeah. I've seen in the many clients that I've worked with as well. I've seen people building and having things built or agencies even building a webinar funnel for them for like, spend like 10,000, 15,000 euros run ads to it. And they're like, I didn't get anything out of it. And I really think it's because it's that part, just sell it first, but that can feel really tedious. That's a bit what I do with my clients and resonance in the beginning of Elevate. just go and research, talk to people.
Create something that you heard people say they want that fits with your expertise and your method and all that. Sell that and run a pilot around it. And I've seen you do it with the funnel methods so beautifully. And then you can say, okay, yeah, this works. I got testimonials. I know that people want to pay for it. I love delivering it. They got results. Yes. Let's go and buy the funnel. Yeah.
Cheyenne (16:58)
And then from there, you probably stay in the loop and keep optimizing. Cause at some point you say, I've got all these people in, how do I continue to serve them even better in my product? I'm going to refine my product. Okay, cool. How do I get even more people in at the funnel? I'm going to refine my funnel. Like it's an iterative process. You don't just do it and walk away. ⁓ but I think it's important to stay in that loop and know where you're at in it.
Relinde (17:19)
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Know where you're at at it. I really love that. I know where you're at. So imagine that I already have that validator's offer. What do you see? What kind of mistakes do you see that people make that are leaking money from their funnels that are costing them lots of energy and time and money?
Cheyenne (17:36)
Yeah, I think especially in today's day and age of social media, social media can be as much as it's difficult and exhausting and you're like, I don't want to post that much. It's really fun. It's fun to create content. It's fun to put ideas out there. It's a creative outlet. And I see a lot of people spend all their time on social, trying to grow their audience and get real views and create the most funny trend or whatever.
And the reality is all of the top of funnel traffic in the world isn't helpful if we don't, again, have the next step to send them to. So what I tell people to do instead is to work backwards for their funnel. This is really helpful for a couple of reasons. One, we wanna make sure that every step in your funnel is truly leading them to the sale. So I always use a silly example of like, the effort that it takes for me to buy a lip gloss is very different than the effort it takes for me to buy a brand new car, right?
There's a different sales funnel there. I might be able to get one influencer telling me this is the best lip gloss she's ever tried and tries it on. And I'm like, my gosh, I want that. It's 20 bucks. I'm going to buy it. A car is like, this is a really expensive purchase and I want to go drive it and talk to somebody and read the reviews and blah, blah, blah. So I think it's important to say, what are we selling? That informs the funnel, the structure, the next steps that we have to tell someone to get there. Is it as easy as selling a lip gloss or is it as easy as selling?
a car and I'm using quotation marks around whatever that offer is. ⁓ And then the second reason why you really want to work backwards in your funnel instead of starting with the social content is because you want your funnel to have a through line. So in cinema, in a movie, the through line is kind of like the theme, the overarching thing that goes throughout the entire film.
The through line in your funnel is what is that key message? What is that core problem that you're solving? And how are we making sure that that is true across every touch point, every step in your funnel? Something that I saw us do, and I've talked about this before at Boss Babe, Boss Babe was known for these viral pink quotes that are like, you're a badass. Make sure that you surround yourself with women who mention you in a room full of opportunities. Like these really great quotes that you send to your friends and they go viral and they're awesome.
And those quotes have nothing to do with starting an online business. So at the time when I was there, we were helping people do their launches in one of our courses, start a business in our membership, and grow on social in one of our other courses. Those were like the three things. So it would be hard because we'd have a post go absolutely viral. That was amazing content. But it had nothing to do with growing on social media, starting a business, or doing a launch.
So it's tempting, especially in the age of trends and content going viral, to just chase the virality. But instead, you want to say, what is the problem that I'm solving with my offer? And how do I work backwards to make sure that that message is translated top of funnel rather than just chase the thing that's going to get the most likes that might not actually get people into my funnel at all? Yeah.
Relinde (20:39)
Exactly.
it really has to do, and that's getting to your point again, like you start with the offer and then you work backwards. those steps that I need to take something through from the top of funnel, such as those viral posts that actually didn't necessarily bring in so many leads. But what do I need to do that? I can attest to this because I've been running ads myself, um, with the help, you know, I learned things, but I'm doing it myself since 2019, I think.
⁓ and they always worked for me. where everybody was like ads don't work. I'm like, well, they do work for me. So I'm going to still do it. And, but with you, I, you gave me some feedback on my ads and some templates and I rewrote them. And I went from my leads were going up in price, which was like between five and 10 euros, which it wasn't super happy with because I was always like at five, but I rewrote them with yours. And then the first, ⁓ weeks that I put them on, were like,
under one euro in the beginning and like going up to two euros, which was really insane. And that is if you're at that level, like with a funnel, optimizing that type of funnel, changing the messaging. So the messaging was more on point. It wasn't only that the price went down so much, but also that the leads were very on point and exactly the people that I needed to have in. So I just wanted to attest to that, aligning that how big a difference who shows up for my webinar, who shows up on a sales course.
just because I tweaked something in the ads.
Cheyenne (22:05)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it's so important.
Relinde (22:07)
Yeah, this is where it gets really fun. find when we can. And sometimes we want to be here before we're there. Like it's like, okay, just go and validate that offer. And then actually you're there, right? I mean, as I've seen you do it as well, you run your pilot and then you're like, okay, building a webinar, doing a launch around it.
Cheyenne (22:26)
Well, and even for myself, like that messaging is so important. I what I have found is that the people who are the best fit for my program, again, have a validated offer and are usually a bit more of an advanced stage entrepreneur. You're usually making six, multiple six. Some people even making seven figures in their business. So it's not for someone who launched the offer, validated it, but has only made like 10 K this year. You know, it's for someone a little bit more advanced. The pricing of my offer reflects that.
But one of the things that I struggled with was how do I message this to make sure that it's clear for people who know exactly what problem this solves? And what I ultimately came down to was there's kind of two types of people. There's people who have some sort of scrappy sales funnel. So people who, like we talked about, you were saying earlier, you might have an Instagram post and you get them on a sales call.
and then you sell them into your offer. And it doesn't feel official, but that's your funnel. Like you have next steps that you're taking to get people to buy your thing. So there's people in that category and their problem is I have a scrappy funnel, but it's usually pretty manual. It's pretty difficult for me to do. It takes a lot of lift and a lot of work and it's not super proven. Those people are a great fit for my program. The other group of people are people who have a funnel and it's either not working the way they want it to, or they just think they can make it better.
You and Carla and my programmer, I think the people who are like, I have a funnel and I just want to continue to make it better and better. Like you believe one of my core values, is like funnels are a practice. You don't just turn it on and walk away. And so even if it's doing really well, it's like, great, how do I make it a little better and a little better? Like, I can't remember the numbers you just said for ads costs, but if it's like, it used to be $8, could I get it down to two? Like you're playing with those things.
And that's a great fit for my program too. But it was hard for me to figure out like, what are the true problems and the people that want this? Because the idea of just create a funnel is so broad and it's like, well, actually you're either creating a formal funnel from a scrappy sales process or you're improving one that you want to make better and better.
Relinde (24:31)
Yes, I love that. Yeah, that's totally what it does. And one of my previous coaches, and that's when I learned that, like, just before I worked with you, I worked with somebody else and went from launching, launching, to building an evergreen webinar funnel, ⁓ which is great, because that one still, I still run the same thing. ⁓ And she said, yeah, you're married. This is a marriage. Are you going to be like working on it and improving it? And it's
Part of me because of who I am and the creative I am, like once it's throw things away and start something. It's a tendency I need to, but on the other hand, my gosh, it's so nice to know if I put so much in ads, I can rely on at least getting so much back. I know that this is happening. I find this, I don't understand. know everybody has this or wants this because I'm like, this is the one thing that you need to build. And once that one is working, maybe you can.
Cheyenne (25:04)
You
Relinde (25:24)
build another one, you know, you can build like something else, like, I don't know, and, uh, a self-paced course, right. Funnels with that, or you can start to connect things, but just having that one funnel for me is one funnel that sells two programs. Great. I'm like, I don't understand. Not everybody has this.
Cheyenne (25:41)
I know, I agree. Well, it's so funny you say it's a marriage because I've said something similar around like live launches are dating, like it's exciting, but it's a lot of work and you're starting over with every new date and like it's a lot. I was like funnels are the long-term relationship and
It's not that they're easy, like it still takes work. You're still going to have to continue to pour into it and communicate your feelings and all that stuff. But at least you're not having to like start fresh and go on a new date every single week. Like it's kind of the long game there. And so I think that's a beautiful, perfect metaphor where it's not. I think this is something else that bigger creators usually get wrong in their messaging. And I get why they say it because it sounds sexy and it sells.
People will say, oh, evergreen funnels are so much easier. They're set it and forget it. You turn it on and you have the sales engine and it's making money while you sleep and you wake up to strike modifications and all of this stuff. And it can be like, that's true, but your funnel will love you if you love it back. Like you have to continue to put work and effort and care into making it work. You don't just turn it on and walk away and never think about it again. People I know who have even extremely proven funnels.
are still thinking about it. there's someone in the funnel method that we're still talking about, abandoned cart emails and like, could we put a countdown timer on this page to make it go better? It's not that the funnel isn't working, it's that it's working amazing and how do we make it work even better? And you want to continue loving your funnel ⁓ over time.
Relinde (27:11)
That's so good, you know, got a lot of from all that and then a of you back. that's also and then how nitty gritty it can be like testing one thing and every week, one thing at a time. And indeed, when you get more budget, you can run more people through the funnel every week, you can do more testing, you get more data. So really becomes that kind of thing, which honestly, when I started all this, and my background in performing arts, you know, this was like, yeah, definitely sounded like
something to me that I had no idea what to make of it. But now I really actually enjoy it. Yeah. And I love it. But this is where your I see like your zone of genius is to look at that data interpret interpret it and decide on like, what is it that we can do that will make the biggest change results for sure.
Cheyenne (28:01)
For sure. And here's what I would say to people listening, cause this is coming in my mind right now. Funnels kind of work in phases. If you are at a place where you've only been live launching or you have this kind of scrappy sales process, I don't want you to worry about A-B testing headlines. I just want you to get your structure in place. Like what things do we want to do in what order? Are we doing a lead magnet into a webinar? Are we doing a podcast episode into a sales call? Like...
how are we structuring your funnel? That's the first thing we're gonna start with. And then we're gonna think about your message. So what is the actual messaging hook that's gonna pull people all the way through? What is a problem that we're solving? How do we agitate that problem and empathize with the person who's going through it and position our product as a solution? Like, how are we gonna do the messaging? And then once we've got your funnel structure and your messaging in place and we're starting to validate that, then we start to look at the nitty gritty things like,
Do we want this, I call it like the eye doctor test. When you go to the eye doctor and they show you like better A, better B on your lenses. It's like, okay, now we say, does the button work better in pink or blue? Does the headline work better to say simple proven problem or sorry, simple proven framework or simple proven process? Like we start to do that little stuff. What I think people get wrong though is that a lot of funnel advice
it's confusing what you do and what order. So they end up having a webinar page and all they do is focus on the button color. And it's like, whoa, button color is not gonna make a difference if you're not sending sales emails after your webinar. Like we've got to kind of get the building blocks in place first before we look at all these little things. The little things are important, but you only start looking at them at a certain stage. So structure, then message, then we get to look at the little optimizations.
Relinde (29:53)
This is so valuable because I think a lot of people are obsessing about something which is gonna make a difference at all, which might even be like, I didn't still put it out there because you or like, I'm losing all this money because I'm like focusing on that etc, on things. And I think that's why it's also continuously so important to get experts on this to learn to educate yourself. Like, I'm educating myself next level, like learning from you again, because that is what is so important to grow like.
into that next level. Cheyenne, this is so amazing. much value, so much beautiful stuff. Is there anything else that I didn't ask that you want to share with us before I ask you how we can find you and all that good stuff?
Cheyenne (30:24)
⁓ God.
Good question. When you were just talking, something popped in my head. Let me see if I can remember what it was. You were saying the order people do stuff in.
I think it's escaped me. So no, I think we're good. Sorry.
Relinde (30:49)
Okay, okay.
No, no worries. And what? How can we find you? Like, how can we get to know you? Tell me where you want people to go? Fascinated, but everything is shared and once we get to know you better.
Cheyenne (31:05)
Yeah, well, I'll send you links and we can put them in the description. ⁓ But if you want to follow me, I'm on Instagram at copygirl.co and I have a newsletter that I send every Tuesday called Copy Talk. That is the best way to hear from me. I am far more consistent with my newsletter than I am social, but I'm getting there. I'm getting there. And then I have a program called The Funnel Method, which is what Rolinda is in.
If you are listening to this and you are a six figure or seven figure entrepreneur and you're at that stage where either, again, you have kind of a scrappy sales process or a live launch process and you want to actually create a true evergreen funnel, or you are someone who has the funnel and you want to continue to improve it, figure out where there's places where it's not working, et cetera, this is a perfect program for you.
Relinde (31:51)
Cheyenne, thank you so much. I'm so happy to share your magic with us. It's early for you still making your beautiful recipe.
Cheyenne (31:58)
Thank you so much. It's been amazing. I so appreciate it.
Relinde (32:02)
Thank you so much.