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Welcome to The Foster Friendly Podcast. We’re bringing foster care closer to home by sharing stories from the front lines. We're talking with former foster youth, foster parents and others who are finding unique and powerful ways to dramatically improve the experiences and outcomes for kids in foster care.
The Foster Friendly podcast is brought to you by America’s Kids Belong, a nonprofit that helps kids in foster care find belonging in both family and community.
Courtney (00:01.458)
Welcome to another episode of the Foster Friendly Podcast. I'm Courtney Williams and I'm joined by my cohost, Travis Vongsness. And today we're honored to be joined by Dr. John DeGarmo, who is a proud foster and adoptive parent who has fostered over 60 children. He regularly speaks on his experiences at conferences and training sessions and is dedicated to improving and promoting successful foster and adoptive care systems. He is considered a professional foster parent and you'll soon see why.
Dr. John Dogarron and his wife Kelly live with their six children in Georgia. He is the director of the Foster Care Institute, the author of several books on foster care, and is a consultant to foster care agencies. Dr. John is a high content speaker and informative trainer on the foster care system. He travels extensively across the globe, meeting with foster parents, child welfare workers, churches, schools, and organizations. Dr. Gomarra.
DiGarmo and his wife are the recipients of the Good Morning America Ultimate Hero Award and the Up With People Everyday Hero Award. Welcome to the Foster Friendly Podcast, Dr. John.
Dr. John DeGarmo (01:08.796)
Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.
Travis (01:12.528)
Great to have you on. So Dr. John, tell us more about yourself, your family, and what is an interesting fact some may not know about Dr. John.
Dr. John DeGarmo (01:23.107)
Well, my wife and I have been foster parents to over 60 plus children that come through our home. 20 years, we've had as many as 11 kids in our house at the same time, which I think should be illegal in all 50 states, because that's just crazy. Crazy. Including seven in diapers at one point. Yes, yes. A few Christmases ago, we had seven in diapers and that was, we refer to that as a very smelly Christmas.
Courtney (01:35.794)
you
Travis (01:38.928)
my gosh.
Courtney (01:48.434)
Yeah.
Dr. John DeGarmo (01:50.172)
Very, very driven, very driven to make the foster care system a better one. If you see my Ted talk, you know how the system has failed one of my own kids. You know, I've adopted three, but we've also experienced four failed adoptions. Interesting fact, let's see. My wife and I moved back. She's from Australia. We traveled the world singing and dancing, but we moved back to the U .S. and to Georgia after the death of our first child based upon my wife's faith. And at that time, my dream career job.
Courtney (02:07.058)
fun.
Dr. John DeGarmo (02:18.908)
My wife is very embarrassed what that was, so she doesn't allow me to verbally express it. It's in my website in my books. But all I can say was entertainment. I'm not a stripper, so don't worry about that.
Courtney (02:28.978)
I love it.
Travis (02:29.456)
That's a great way to make us all dig into more of your resources to find out what that was. I love that. Well played there. You got a discovery. Well, I love that. Great setup. And you're such an inspiration with all that you do and how much of an impact you make for the fostering community nationally and really globally as a voice. So just give us a glimpse into what a typical week looks like for you and all that you're kind of doing in the space.
Courtney (02:35.058)
Yeah, I'm curious.
Dr. John DeGarmo (02:55.516)
Well, that's a great question. A typical day is anything but typical probably. You know, it really depends upon the day. For example, last week I spent three days in Pennsylvania doing a keynote at a state conference, a breakout session as well. I did several podcasts. I did a training webinar for a state in Texas. I spoke at an event in Georgia. Talked to some publishers about a new book I got coming out and...
was parenting a bunch of children as well when I was home. So that's kind of typical, if you will. and I worked with some legislators too on how to reform the system. And I'm also working with a university and I'm also an expert witness for legal firms on foster care issues as well.
Courtney (03:33.778)
Ha ha ha!
Dr. John DeGarmo (03:41.596)
A juggle. A juggle.
Courtney (03:41.874)
Yeah.
Travis (03:45.552)
I feel like the other day I helped my kid work in his car. I can't even, okay. I'm like anything else additionally in my day. I can't even hardly add that to what you just said.
Courtney (03:50.482)
I need some help.
Courtney (03:56.21)
You must have an awesome wife.
Dr. John DeGarmo (03:59.388)
She is, she is an absolute blessing. She's a doctor of nutrition, naturopathic medicines. She is very, very, probably the most caring person I've met. She puts everybody above herself. And that's why I think we've been able to foster so many children because she has such a heart and love for children in crisis, children of all kinds.
Courtney (04:00.786)
Bye.
Courtney (04:26.13)
I love that. Yeah, so at America's Kids Belong, we often say that it's mindless and even irresponsible to recruit more foster homes without also retaining the current ones that we have. Can you speak a little bit into this and what does that look like for you, both recruitment and retention?
Dr. John DeGarmo (04:44.156)
Yes, that's so very true. I was talking to an agency yesterday and about retention and recruitment go hand in hand. They truly, truly do. Agencies really right now are struggling to not only recruit foster parents, but retain foster parents. You know, your average foster parent today lasts around on average 18 months before they say, hey, this is so hard. I'm out of here. You know, the lockdowns really did a disservice and really harmed
the foster care system in so many ways. So agencies are struggling to do both. And I often, I work with agencies to do both, to create a strong recruitment program, but it has to go hand in hand with retention. If you recruit 10 foster parents and you can only retain two of them after a year, you know, your efforts are very, very wasted. And they're really the best recruiting tool is a happy foster parent. So they can show their friends, tell their friends, say, you know what, this is such a life -changing thing for me. You might want to consider it as well.
So it is a difficult time. Gone are the days where an agency would set up a table at some sort of event and people come up and sign up. There's different ways to recruit foster parents. And I think agencies are just starting to discover that now, or that's where I come in and help them. And in regards to retention, in regards to retention, let's step back to the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021. This is what I heard across the country. When the kids...
Travis (05:53.104)
Hmm.
Travis (06:01.648)
Hmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (06:12.316)
in foster care. Well, I remember when CNN called me up in 2020, April, right when the lockdowns are happening. They said, Dr. John, how is the lockdowns, how are kids in foster care who are not going to school, how is that going to affect them? And I said, well, I'm far more concerned about the mental health aspects than I am of any virus. And we're seeing that come to fruition today. You know, the real pandemic, I think, is mental health for our children. But this is what I was hearing in 2020. The kids, they're no longer going to school.
Travis (06:31.504)
Hmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (06:42.268)
So they're not getting their support services in Indian school, even though they're 18 months behind academically and struggle with reading and math. They're no longer getting their in -person visitation. So they're no longer getting professional therapy and counseling sessions. And they're in a home with people who are strangers and their anxiety levels went through the roof. Foster parents are telling me, I'm not a teacher. I'm not a professional therapist. I'm not a professional counselor. I can't do visitations via Zoom five days a week. I have my own concerns.
Travis (06:48.4)
the
Travis (06:57.52)
Hmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (07:08.444)
and my anxiety levels are through the roof and there's no caseworker to help me because of the lockdown. So we lost a lot of good foster parents during that time.
Travis (07:14.448)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Travis (07:25.424)
Temporarily frozen. Okay. Caught back up there. Okay, we're back. Anything else you want to add to that or we just... It froze for just a second there.
Dr. John DeGarmo (07:34.876)
Yeah, so, right. So, during that time, you know, when the caseworkers were unable to visit the foster parents to give them the support services they needed, a lot of foster parents were saying, I'm out of here. I can't do this by myself. So during that lockdown time, we lost so many foster parents because they weren't getting the support services that they desperately need when they're struggling with grief and loss, when they're burned out, when they're struggling from compassion, fatigue, when they had those false accusations, allegations made against them.
Travis (07:45.84)
Hmm.
Travis (08:01.296)
Hmm.
Courtney (08:04.69)
Yeah, yeah. And definitely still feeling that, you know, I am a foster care recruiter, so I feel exactly what you're talking about. And, you know, I still get asked by some counties to go sit at those tables, sit at a coffee shop. It just, there's no fruit behind it anymore. I feel like stories really are. People want to hear stories and people are encouraged and inspired by stories that they hear and the success stories.
Dr. John DeGarmo (08:20.124)
No.
Dr. John DeGarmo (08:29.436)
Yes, you know, everybody can play a part in recruiting, whether it is community organizations, whether it is businesses, whether it is faith -based organizations, whether it is schools, they all can play a part in recruiting if they know how to do it. You know, not everybody can be a foster parent. I think we would all agree, but everybody can help a child in crisis in some way. And when organizations and businesses and school leaders and faith -based organizations find out, hey, we can help, we can play a part in recruiting.
Travis (08:45.136)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (08:58.3)
Many times they'll say, how do we do this?
Travis (09:02.096)
Yeah, it's such a good point too you make about sort of the systemic nature and the interconnectedness of foster parent attrition, because there's also that aspect of as caseworkers and the burnout they face and the nice face attrition, how that then impacts foster families have a new worker and case, you know, and then paperwork gets affected. And then it goes the other direction of like, you know, it's constantly recruiting. And so it just, it feels like if you zoom out and you know this so well, Dr. John, just.
foster care, you know, there's so much of a, some, some people call it like a thimble of water and a raging social fire. you know, we see the staggering size of everything here. And it's just like, when we can't grow a culture of, people that last, you know, to be mentors and things like that, it's like, what a tough space, you know, to just sort of even great people that just can't make it, you know? So it's like, I love that, you know, part of your work and the messaging is around retention and how we can all really work in that area.
Dr. John DeGarmo (10:01.468)
Well, I'll say this about caseworkers. Today's caseworkers are overworked, overwhelmed, under -resourced, under -supported, understaffed, and underpaid. And so many new caseworkers today are saying the same thing as foster parents after about 18 months. And I'm out of here. I can't do it. You know, to me, foster parenting is not a job. It's a lifestyle. It's a unique lifestyle of sacrifices. Foster parents make sacrifices of their time, their finances, their house, their relationships, their heart. To me,
It is the hardest thing I've ever done. It's been the most rewarding thing I've ever done and every child may be a better person in some way, but there are times where I've questioned the system. There have been times where I wanted to quit. There have been times where I've just been so exhausted with secondary traumatic stress or otherwise known as compassion fatigue. I love that term, compassion fatigue, fatigue, exhaustion from compassion, from caring. And so many foster parents are in the grip of that and they don't even recognize it.
Courtney (10:59.346)
Yeah, so true.
Travis (11:02.48)
Well, as the director of the foster care Institute, and we'll kind of get into more of that as well later in this conversation, you oversee a lot of foster care training. We know what's important, but what do you feel are the absolute necessities for families to be trained in to be successful foster parents?
Dr. John DeGarmo (11:18.78)
You know, our brand new webinar just dropped last week. We have over 75 hours of online training webinars at our agency. Plus, of course, in -person as well. But our brand new one dropped last week, and that is mental health issues for children with crisis. As I mentioned earlier, mental health crisis we're in, you know, there's a 70 % increase in teenage suicide attempts. There's child depression is an all -time high. Child obesity, addictions, all of these since the lockdowns.
and so many foster parents are not equipped for these new mental health issues. When I first became a foster parent in 2002, I apologize, in 2002, I thought I was ready. My wife, she had a degree in psychology at the time. I was a teacher, we had three healthy kids. I thought I was ready. I recognized within 20 minutes of my first placement that, my gosh, my training did not prepare me for this. What is going on with this child?
And I also recognize when my first child left my home that I'm not prepared for this broken heart. What's going on? They told me it would hurt, but I didn't realize it hurt this much. Well, today's issues are different for so many foster parents with that mental health aspect. So foster parents need to be equipped with how to handle these mental health issues, protecting their own marriage. You know, marriage can really suffer from foster parenting. Your own birth children might struggle. Birth parents and foster parents working together.
is another one of our importance. I think the most relevant issue though, the most relevant issue, and I'm looking at the book right here on my desk here, is social media and online technology. You and I, all three of us, we live in an online world, but our children inhabit that world and there's a big difference. And for those children who are filled with tremendous anxiety, those children who are in crisis, those kids who are the most vulnerable once in wash care, they're going online.
particularly during the lockdowns, for one thing, and that's to find love, unconditional love. They're looking for acceptance, they're looking for normalcy, they're looking for someone to say, hey, I like you. They're looking for someone to love them. And that's where the predators are. And they recognize how vulnerable these children are, and they lure them in with false hopes and false promises. That's part of the pipeline of foster care to human trafficking, which I call America's ugly secret. It makes us feel uncomfortable, but we don't address it.
Travis (13:27.952)
Hmm.
Travis (13:40.688)
Mmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (13:43.036)
even though it is the number one global business and it happens in every single community in our nation. And then on top of that, you've got five million children experience domestic violence in their house every single day in our nation. And that's one of the things we did during lockdowns. For so many kids who are living in abusive homes, school was their safe place. School was a place where they were getting two meals a day. There was a mandated reporter there. They were...
Travis (14:10.832)
Hmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (14:12.156)
not being abused, not being hit, not being raped, et cetera. But what we did as a society was we locked them in their home with their abuser, with no mandated reporter. And again, we're seeing the effects of that now as well. So social media is another one of those pertinent issues that I think foster parents need to really be focused upon. And unfortunately, when it comes to online technology, it's ever -changing and ever -evolving.
Travis (14:26.96)
Mmm.
Travis (14:41.872)
Very true.
Courtney (14:42.162)
Yeah. It needs to be like a yearly requirement. It needs to be updated, updated training in this area. Cause like I said, it changes so quickly and so fast.
Travis (14:46.832)
Hehe.
Dr. John DeGarmo (14:51.1)
You know, my number one training right now across the country is secondary traumatic stress, otherwise known as compassion fatigue for foster parents. They are crying out for that. They're saying, Dr. John, I'm really, really struggling right now. You know, self -care, if you will.
Travis (14:51.312)
Hmm.
Travis (15:00.496)
Hmm.
Courtney (15:11.122)
Yeah, you kind of mentioned it, but in your TED Talk, you share the story of Sydney, who came into your home as a seven -year -old, who was supposed to be with you for a weekend, but ended up in your home for two years. Then she moved to live with the relatives that she had never met. She goes on to be disrupted many times and continues to struggle into adulthood. Do you have any ideas as to how the system could better support youth like her so youth don't age out and struggle with those things like poverty, unwanted pregnancies, sex trafficking, and all those other social ills?
Travis (15:35.604)
Yeah.
Courtney (15:40.466)
that are related to aging out of care.
Dr. John DeGarmo (15:43.932)
Yes, there's a few things and that's, you know, my next book right now is written, co -authored with Jen Lilly. She's a celebrity actress, Hallmark movies and soap operas, and she's also a foster parent herself. We went to DC to advocate on the reform for reunification. You know, reunification can be wonderful. It can be glorious. 50 % of the time, kids are reunified. Of that 50%, 20 to 30 % come back into care far more traumatized, far more
issues of trust and attachment, and sometimes they even die while they're at home because their parents might slip back into their own addictions. They might slip back into their own pain. They might not get the help that they need. They might struggle with parenting after not parenting for some time. So one of the things I think we can do to help these kids who are aging out or reunification, if you will, is when they do go back home to wrap around services around that birth parent for a minimum of six months, hopefully for a year.
monthly check -ins, visits, therapy, counseling. In regards to aging out, the statistics are grim. We know the statistics. 55 % drop out of school, 65 % end up homeless, 75 % end up incarcerated, and for so many, the cycle just repeats itself over and over again. Two of the three have adopted our third generation of foster care. Their parents and grandparents were also in the system and have failed them. So we need to prepare the youth before they age out. And that's the responsibility of, I think,
Mainly the foster parent. When the child comes to my house, we are preparing them at an early age for adulthood. Every child in my house. In our house, there's no label, there's no biological foster adoptive, they're all my kids. So my kids are gonna be learning how to cook at age 10, whether it's something as basic as making an omelet, but they're gonna be introduced to that. They're doing their own laundry. We're helping them during those years to open up their own bank account and manage money, job applications, job interviews, driving.
social skills, all those skills that they need so when they do transition out of the system, they have a basis of those skills and a foundation in place so that can help them find a job and help them with their mental health and their social skills, et cetera.
Travis (17:52.752)
Hmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (17:58.684)
That's just the beginning.
Travis (17:58.992)
I love, yeah, just the beginning. Tip of the iceberg. I love that so much. And we had one of the partners that we've worked with America's Kids Belong, Dr. Danisha Keating, which she's from California. I don't know if you've met her yet, but she wrote a book called From Foster to PhD, which is her story journey from being in foster care to then getting her doctorate. And one of the things that she said, kind of your point, Dr. John, and as well as sort of
Also this, this way that foster parents need to do a better job of advocating in their presence, because their point was like, even if you're doing that in the background, they don't know a that I'm worth it, but B what does it look like to actually sort of stand up to something or to like put on the confidence in the moment to say, I'm worth this and valued this much. And I individually see that modeled. And I thought that was just a great point along with what you're saying so well.
Dr. John DeGarmo (18:51.58)
Yes, we have to be their advocates because we might be the only person who ever does advocate for these children.
Travis (18:57.808)
Hmm. Yeah. Well, kind of moving on a little bit here is, you know, one of the biggest concerns we hear about potential foster families and there's several things, common questions you guys both hear. but one is, you know, what about my biological children? can you speak to those are struggling with that question and then how has foster care and adoption shaped your own family?
Dr. John DeGarmo (19:22.812)
Well, that's one of our more popular training sessions at the Foster Care Institute is birth parents and foster children. I'm sorry, birth children and foster children living in the same home. Yeah, it can be tough for the birth children because there may be issues of jealousy. There may be issues of trust. There may be issues of discipline. So many different issues could arise as the birth children see their parents sharing time. So there may be jealousy and a number of issues.
So it's really, really important. Well, there's a number of things that my wife and I do. Begin with, as I mentioned earlier, there is no label. They're all part of a family. When we get a placement call, we get a call for a placement, we will sit down with our children and talk about it and discuss it. And I basically asked myself, you know, when I get that phone call, I got to determine pretty quickly, is this child a good placement for my family at this time? And is my family a good fit for this child?
at this time and can our family provide the support services child needs right now? There's a bunch of other questions, but those are really the three main ones that I ask. So we ask our children and if they need, if some of them say, you know what dad, we need a break, then we'll take that break. When we do have the kids in our home, my wife and I, we have what we call special time where it's either my wife or myself, we'll take one of our own kids out one on one for a date night, you know, to a movie, to dinner, ice cream, whatever it might be.
so we can continue to have those strong one -on -one relationships with our kids. Because when the children from West Coast leave our home, we still have our own kids. And when we see them struggling, we might need to say, you know what, maybe we need respite this weekend. Maybe we need respite this weekend. When Sydney left their home, all of my family was struggling with grief and loss. Not only my wife and I, but our own children as well. So we took a break. We took a long break where we...
We kind of circled the wagon, so to speak, and we focused upon our own children to help them through that time of grief that they were struggling with.
Courtney (21:26.418)
Yeah, I love what you said about respite. I mean, I've been a licensed foster home for 17 years and we used to kind of have this mindset of if we use respite, you know, we were struggling and it would look bad and we couldn't do that. And we've started to really utilize it, especially now we're a therapeutic foster home and just realizing that's what keeps our family going is using that respite care from time to time to just give us that breather and give our kids the breather. Let us go like we love to hike. We're very active out nature. Unfortunately, a lot of the kids that come into our home don't like that so that we can go do some of those things that they don't.
like to do or just do the things that our family likes to do to connect and regroup.
Dr. John DeGarmo (22:01.34)
You know, respite is great and not everybody can be a foster parent, but everybody can help in some way. And for some people it is through respite care because they can't do it full time. And I think I consider a very, very valuable gift for foster parents that allows us to recharge those batteries, so to speak. You know, maybe, maybe we have to go out of town for a wedding that the kids can't go to out of state. Maybe there's an illness, maybe we just, my wife and I need some time, whatever it might be. And also, so it gives us a chance to recharge those batteries.
Travis (22:26.608)
Hmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (22:31.196)
It gives the child a chance to have an, to build a relationship with another loving couple, the loving family to build another relationship and attachment and trust. And allows those respite families to, to, to heed their call as well. You know, back to my own biological children, I could not do it without my own biological children. You know, so many times they have, you know, when a child enters our home, the first thing that happens is usually when we're signing the paperwork.
Travis (22:33.18)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (22:51.888)
Mmm.
Dr. John DeGarmo (23:01.34)
is my own kids will take that child by the hand and they're off the go. They're playing somewhere. Play therapy is amazing. And it's very, very real. And our kids, whether they know it or not, they are helping that child build relationships, build trust, heal, et cetera. And I've watched my own children come to love their foster siblings as their own, and I've seen them grieve. But there have also been times where my own kids have said,
Travis (23:07.536)
Thank you.
Dr. John DeGarmo (23:30.3)
Dad, this kid's driving me crazy. And I said, yeah, I know. I get it. I get it.
Travis (23:33.932)
Right, we're all in this together.
Dr. John DeGarmo (23:36.636)
You know, I remember a time, you mentioned hiking. I remember a time we took nine kids to Disney World and the entire, you know, there was three of our biological and then six from the foster care system. And I remember the entire time, all I just did was going, I went one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, just counted the entire time. that was fun.
Courtney (23:57.81)
That's great. Yeah. Going back to the story of Sydney a little bit, when she first met you, she ran to you and called you daddy. What did that tell you in that moment about the work that you know in attachment disorders and what that meant to you?
Travis (23:59.344)
Yeah.
Dr. John DeGarmo (24:15.26)
At the moment, I didn't know what's going on. At the moment, I was just surprised and stunned because it was early on in my fostering. Now I recognize she most likely had disinhibited social engagement disorder, which some of my own kids do. You know, looking back, I find that sad because she was craving something so desperately that she did not have in her life. And she did not, she had not formed any really healthy, strong attachments with any adult figure in her life.
Courtney (24:18.61)
You
Dr. John DeGarmo (24:43.932)
This Inhibitant Social Engagement Disorder is, it is a attachment disorder of some sort. And it's usually as a result of a child not forming a healthy attachment with somebody during those early formative years. And that's what happened to her. And you know, so many children, you know, you can put aside, you can put aside all the trauma, all of the abuse, all of the neglect of child's experience. When a child is placed into the foster care system, it is going to be some sort of anxiety in some regard.
Many times, I wrote the children's book, A Different Home, A New Foster Child's Story, because I had held so many kids in my arms those first few nights as they asked me questions like, why am I here? When do I go home? When do I see mom next? Is it my fault that daddy touches me at night? Is it my fault that mommy gets hit? Will these people hurt me? Will these people hit me? Can I trust them? Does anybody love me? And these kids have cried themselves to sleep so many nights. It is a time of tremendous confusion, fear.
Questions, anxiety being placed in foster care. It took me a little bit time to recognize that.
Travis (25:50.416)
Hmm.
How would you finish the line, what children in foster care need most is?
Dr. John DeGarmo (25:57.756)
unconditional love.
You know, so many people say to me, I'm sure you've heard it, Dr. John, I couldn't do what you do. It would hurt too much to give the kids back. And my response is, that's exactly how it's supposed to be. These children, they need stability, they need structure, but what they need more than anything else is unconditional love. So when they do leave our homes, for whatever reason it might be, yes, our hearts break because we love them like members of our family. But that heartbreak is a gift for that child.
Because we could be the first person who's ever had that heartbreak for that child. We could be the first person who's ever cried tears of grief over that child. And I think that's a gift for the child.
Travis (26:42.16)
beautifully said. I also have heard it kind of said too of where, again, that's a very common question that's going to sideline a lot of people. And it's a real hard question of like, I'd get too attached. You gave a great answer there. And I think I've heard it said too where what appears to be to you, the questioner of the greatest liability is your greatest gift. That appears that's a liability. That is exactly what they need. So well said, Dr. John.
Courtney (27:06.482)
Yeah.
Dr. John DeGarmo (27:06.492)
Yeah, so Foster parents hearts a lot like a quilt with all these patches placed all over it.
Travis (27:12.368)
beautiful image.
Courtney (27:13.778)
Yeah. Yeah. So speaking on the grief and the loss that we experience as foster parents, what encouragement would you leave with foster parents to keep going through that grief and the loss, the hard things relating to fostering? How do you encourage them to work on their own well -being?
Dr. John DeGarmo (27:29.34)
You know, every child is maybe a better person in some way. There have been tough times to be sure, but I've become a better parent, a better husband, a better father, a better member of society and community for every child that's come to my home. You know, grief and loss is very real for foster parents and it's important that we surround ourselves with other foster parents. So foster parents support groups are critical. As I said earlier, it's a lifestyle.
It's a unique lifestyle that our friends and family members truly will never understand. They don't know what it's like. Listen, I've got my doctorate in foster care, I've been in all these books, traveled the nation, and my own parents don't truly grasp what I do. They question it. Why do you do this? What's, you know, why? So it's important that foster parents surround themselves with other people, with foster parents support groups, so they can vent, if you will, cry, laugh, lean on each other.
and share with people that don't criticize them, don't judge them, don't look at them odd or strange, instead have walked that walk and they can learn from each other.
Travis (28:39.952)
Hmm.
Courtney (28:41.266)
Yeah, before we jumped on and started recording, you told me that you came to my area and gave a training a few years back. And I'm kind of curious, I'm going to ask them now if you're the one that led them into these support groups, because we have our county provide support groups for us there. And we get the training hours automatically for going. They provide child care. They provide dinner. They're twice a month. And they just really take it seriously to give that opportunity for us or to us. And it really is what keeps us going.
Dr. John DeGarmo (29:07.452)
Yeah, that's why we lost a lot of foster parents during the lockdowns because there was no sense of community during those hard, hard times. You know, one of the things I do is I do travel the nation helping to establish support groups because I find them very, very critical for the wellbeing and retention of foster parents.
Travis (29:13.68)
Hmm.
Travis (29:29.488)
Hmm.
Courtney (29:31.026)
Thank you.
Travis (29:32.976)
Well, and kind of as we get into the homestretch here, it's kind of been said, you've definitely affirmed this Dr. John, of just everyone can play a role. I think that part of the Foster Friendly Podcast, America's Kids Belong, really helping spearhead this foster friendly communities movement nationally to where businesses are finding their role to see foster families in their communities. This app, the Foster Friendly app, which is growing across states, across the country to where
You know, if you're a foster family and you can get a discount in a certain state and you can find businesses. So we're seeing that grow. And then in faith communities, resourcing them to come alongside and, and support foster families in their church and then also in the community. So this is, it does take, you know, obviously a village and it's really taking a country too, to embrace the kids that are ours. So with all of that said, you know, we'll have some links to show notes of America's kids' belongs resources, including some that we've tagged of Dr. John.
But Dr. John has a ton of resources on the website. I mean, I dug through there and I was astounded at the number of unbelievable, practical, relevant, you know, over 70 hours of training webinars from the foster care institutes. We'll have links of course to that from his Ted talks to interviews. I mean, just it's loaded up. So, you know, anything else do you want to add about some of your resources or accessing some of that stuff, Dr. John?
Dr. John DeGarmo (30:56.732)
Well, you did mention a couple of things. You mentioned faith -based organizations. I think faith -based organizations are starting to recognize now that, you know, we don't have to go to Honduras or Mexico or Nicaragua for a mission field. I've done it. My children have done it. And how rewarding that was. But there's a mission field in our own community. And faith -based organizations are recognizing, hey, we have a place at the table here. Businesses can get on board too with offering foster parents discounts on a number of things to help lift their burdens, so to speak. I think our legislators need to...
become more active. I ask all the time, why don't our legislators focus upon this issue? I tell them, well, there might be a lack of knowledge and understanding. And also foster care is not a sexy issue that's a voting issue. So they really don't address it unless it's something that's negative or it's a voting year. So we can all become advocates in some way, whether it is helping the parents, helping the kids, helping the birth parents, helping our legislators.
You know, as we have this discussion right now, most likely within three miles of each of us, there's a child out there who needs someone to step up and say, I will help you.
Travis (32:15.344)
Well, it's any other closing thoughts. This has been really, there's just been a wealth of stuff you've shared on this. I've been again, very practical, inspiring. Anything else you want to say in closing?
Dr. John DeGarmo (32:26.78)
Yeah, I'll close it with this. I can't change the world. And Travis and Courtney, you can't change the world. But the child place in our home that we're caring for, their world has changed.
Travis (32:39.696)
sense.
Courtney (32:39.698)
Yeah, definitely. And you can see why people call you a foster parent expert for sure. Yeah, thank you for sharing your expertise and.
Travis (32:42.448)
sit with that for a while.
Dr. John DeGarmo (32:51.708)
I'm driven daily to make the system a better one.
Travis (32:56.144)
and then living it out in real life as well. So incredible. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, Dr. John.
Dr. John DeGarmo (33:02.972)
Absolutely, my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.
Courtney (33:03.058)
Thank you.
Travis (33:08.944)
brief pause and then we can do the promo ad and get Dr. John on his way.
Courtney (33:17.234)
Thanks again, even just encouraging me as a foster mom and going through a, we have a really tough placement right now. So you know what it's like when you feel a little.
Dr. John DeGarmo (33:26.044)
Well, those foster parents...
Courtney (33:38.486)
Hehehehe