What I Learned from Dr. John Deloney (and How It Can Help You Build a Non-Anxious Life)

🎙️ Episode 30 – What I Learned from Dr. John Deloney (and How It Can Help You Build a Non-Anxious Life)

👉 Ready for the next step? SCHEDULE A FREE, 30-MINUTE CONSULT with Mark or Zack at: https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

In this solo episode of The Lion Counseling Podcast, Mark Odland shares the unexpected story of meeting Dr. John Deloney at a Texas cattle ranch during the EntreLeadership Summit—and how that brief but powerful encounter inspired a deeper reflection on anxiety, integrity, and the daily choices that shape our emotional resilience.

But this isn’t just a story—it’s a practical guide for any man who feels overwhelmed, disconnected, or stuck. Using Deloney’s “6 Daily Choices” framework, Mark breaks down how to move from anxiety to action, from fear to freedom—layering his own experience as a certified EMDR therapist and coach for high-performing Christian men.

🔥 Whether you’re a fan of Deloney, battling burnout, or just trying to find your footing again—this episode will challenge and equip you to build a life of peace, purpose, and presence.

🔍 In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
Why anxiety isn’t the fire—it’s the alarm
The 6 Daily Choices that shape a non-anxious life
How to make these choices tactical and actionable
Why vulnerability (done wisely) builds trust, not weakness
How Christian faith, CBT, EMDR, and nervous system science all align
Why mindfulness isn’t “soft”—it’s strategic
How to get to the root of anxiety instead of just managing symptoms

✍️ “You don’t have to feel fearless to act like a lion. Just choose one small, courageous step today.”

📖 Resources Mentioned:
Building a Non-Anxious Life by Dr. John Deloney
Mark’s coaching and counseling: https://escapethecagenow.com

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’
About the Show:
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the lions they were created to be. Hosted by Mark Odland, Certified EMDR Therapist, and Zack Carter, Counselor & Coach, we tackle real issues—masculinity, trauma, anxiety, identity, legacy, and faith—with clarity, grit, and grace.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Mark Odland: 00:01

Everyone to the Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Oddland, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist. And our mission is to help men to break free, to heal deep, and to become the Lions they were created to be. Today's episode is a little different. It's a story.

Mark Odland: 00:18

A story about rodeos, cigars, surprising, smiles and a meeting, a meeting with a man that I long admired. None other than the Doctor. John Deloney. But the story isn't the end in itself. It's kind of, just an interesting way to, get you some important information, an entry point into something practical and useful.

Mark Odland: 00:44

What John teaches about building a non anxious life. And how we as workers, husbands, fathers, men trying to live well, how we can take this work and do something with it. And in our time together, I'm gonna share with you some of Deloney's best strategies, blend them together with my own insights, and give you some tactical knowledge on how you can use these ideas to improve your life. Alright. So picture this, a cattle ranch just North of Dallas, blue sky, Texas barbecue, and a cigar station that smelled a little bit like heaven.

Mark Odland: 01:43

Well, I mean, let's be honest, heaven probably doesn't smell like cigars, but I think you know what I mean, as a guy, you know, Dave Ramsey's walking around. Apparently, that's a staple at a lot of his events. But all this said, it was a surprise, to be at this opening reception for his Entre Leadership Summit. And I was privileged to be, in attendance again. Brush up on my leadership skills, gain some new ideas for the business.

Mark Odland: 02:12

It's always a good time. And, well, it felt like one of those kind of divinely inspired moments, one of those providential moments where, it's almost like God hands you this unexpected gift. You know, a meeting, a selfie, a conversation, a great memory. And all this, although this story is focused on doctor Deloney, I can't ignore that before I met John, I did get to shake hands with the big man himself, Dave Ramsey. And, if that's where the night ended, shaking hands with Dave, that would have been a great night.

Mark Odland: 02:47

I've been following him for a long time. My wife and I went through Financial Peace University. My ideas around finances have evolved some since then, but man, as a young couple trying to raise a family, his principles were really helpful. And in recent years, I've been really interested in his leadership development. And that's why I've been going to these summits to try to keep improving as a leader and as a business owner.

Mark Odland: 03:15

And and so, shaking hands with Dave was amazing. And then on to Doctor. John, Doctor. Deloney. For those of you who don't know, John Deloney is one of the quote unquote Ramsey personalities.

Mark Odland: 03:28

He's a best selling author. He has an incredibly popular podcast where everyday folks, call in with their problems, and he talks them through it. And he asks great questions, and he encourages them like very few people actually can. He's he's quick on his feet. Deloney is one of a kind.

Mark Odland: 03:49

Right? A a unicorn of sorts. A guy who is the whole package, right? He's educated, he has actual clinical experience, and he's got the heart to have compassion with people, but he can also be blunt when needed. And it's it's this blend of telling you like it is with compassion that helps people take the next step in life.

Mark Odland: 04:11

Right? He's a guy who can sit with an incredibly messy call, someone whose life is honestly pretty messed up. And he can engage with that person without being critical, without being cruel, and actually offer them hope. And he can actually challenge them in a way where they still feel cared about. And those are the skills that, are really good for a talk show host, a podcaster and as a as a therapist like me.

Mark Odland: 04:41

Right? So I could I'm, when I see John in action, I'm kind of thinking to myself, okay, here are the parts that admire. Here's what I do a little differently. But but all in all, I respect the guy, for what he's doing, how he's helping people. And so, you know, our talk that day, when I was able to talk with doctor Deloney at the ranch, it was it was it was brief overall.

Mark Odland: 05:01

You know, I wish I had more time to talk with a guy, but it was one of those conversations that does stay with you. You know, when we were talking, he described how his life, his career, you know, how they were going. I told him about my work as an EMDR therapist, helping leaders and men across the country to find deeper healing in life. And he congratulated me for for doing that hard work on the front lines and and I really appreciated him saying that because I know that he gets it. I know from knowing about a little bit about his life story and some of the things he's been through he's been on the front lines too.

Mark Odland: 05:37

He's dealt with suicidal students, seen tragedies happen, counseled people through very difficult times. For many for a long time he was in the college setting, of on track to be an administrator before he kind of felt led to go in a different direction to become to become a psychologist. So all that being said, it was cool to know that he knew about EMDR. He knew about the importance of this therapy. And as we were talking, he mentioned that it actually had come up at work just recently.

Mark Odland: 06:16

So he was he was genuinely interested, warm, curious, and probably my favorite part of our conversation was he actually admitted his own mistakes. That humility is something I appreciate. And a fellow brother, a fellow lion out there trying to make the world a better place to have that quiet confidence in your skills and what you do, but also having the humility to know that you're not all that, right? To keep keep the ego in check, right? That's part of why I have good friends who can call me out and challenge me.

Mark Odland: 06:48

And part of part of the reason I do jujitsu is to is to keep that ego in check for myself. So I I can appreciate that when I see it in other people because I know it's not easy. And I appreciate that honesty. You know, one could argue that having that humility, having that honesty to look in the mirror and see ourselves the way we really are, not just the way we'd like to be. That's a good quality to have as a leader.

Mark Odland: 07:13

That that is showing leadership to model that. And even though it's a fear for many of my clients to to show any kind of vulnerability, any kind of weakness, any kind of honesty about these things, yeah, We have to be let's let's be honest. We have to be strategic about how we do that. But for most of us, when we see leaders that we look up to admit their mistakes, They don't shrink in our eyes. It just makes them look more human.

Mark Odland: 07:43

And it builds trust. Right. And so that's the personal part. That's my the personal connection. That was just a great memory for me talking with with Doctor.

Mark Odland: 07:51

Deloney. And so that's just a segue to the practical stuff, right? I mean I know a lot of our listeners, lot of you guys out there are you're enjoying the long form interviews with great guests like Jonathan Pageau, but but also you you love our weekly tactical podcasts where typically me and Zach will go back and forth and and give you practical advice. So here's the practical part. Here's the here's the tactics.

Mark Odland: 08:16

Right? The part that's gonna impact you directly. I'd like to talk with you, about what John actually teaches about anxiety and how we can make use of his advice in our everyday lives, right? So for those of you who aren't familiar with his actual work, John has a great way of framing anxiety, not as a label, right? And we throw around a lot of labels in the psychology world, right?

Mark Odland: 08:42

But not embracing as a label, a label that we kind of wear indefinitely, but more as an alarm. Right? What's an alarm for? Right? It it it alerts us to something else.

Mark Odland: 08:56

Right? So the anxiety isn't the fire. The anxiety is the smoke detector going off. The alarm is telling you that something is wrong. That's what anxiety is.

Mark Odland: 09:05

And if you only just smash the alarm, you still got a fire. That doesn't solve the problem. Right? So you gotta address the fire, the real underlying problems. The the alarm quiets, right?

Mark Odland: 09:19

Because the problem gets handled. Not because we ignore it, because we overmedicate it, not because we stick our head in the sand or turn to our addiction, addictive behavior, right? Those are all ways to try to make the alarm go silent, but the fire is still going. Right? So that's the core perspective that changes how you chase after peace.

Mark Odland: 09:39

Right? Alright. So that that's kind of that's kind of the thrust of his thesis, and I think it's helpful. I think it's a very helpful metaphor. We use I use that before I even heard John talk about I've used that alarm metaphor when talking with my clients about PTSD, talking about trauma, talking about EMDR therapy and why it's so effective, right?

Mark Odland: 10:00

So, yeah, Doctor. Deloney, he provides us with clear, clear practical framework that he calls the six daily choices. And and these aren't lofty platitudes. They're they're daily decisions. They're very practical.

Mark Odland: 10:14

They are things that you do, not just things that you you think about. Right? So here they are. One, choose reality. Two, choose connection.

Mark Odland: 10:27

Three, choose freedom. Four, choose health and healing. And five, choose mindfulness. And finally, six, choose belief. We're gonna go into in each of go into each of these in in more detail in a minute here.

Mark Odland: 10:42

But the idea is you make these choices each day, and you start building a life that's more stable, more resilient, and less anxious. Alright, so let's walk through a few of these choices and make them tactical for your life today. Alright. First, choose reality. Choose reality.

Mark Odland: 11:01

This means taking a brave inventory of your life, your relationships, your health, your finances, your daily rhythms, your habits. It's brutally honest, but honesty equals healing when it comes to this. Right? Practically, that looks like weekly check-in. Asking yourself, what am I avoiding?

Mark Odland: 11:21

What am I pretending is okay when it's not? Where is the stress coming from? Don't ask why am I anxious? Ask what in my life is causing my body to freak out right now. Right?

Mark Odland: 11:35

Again, it's not the smoke alarm. It's what is the fire? What is the actual fire? Then make one tiny repair this week. Start small.

Mark Odland: 11:44

It's like one of our other podcasts with me and Zach. Right? It's, keep it keep it, simp keep it simple, stupid. If you just start small and keep it simple. Pay one bill.

Mark Odland: 11:53

Call one friend. Schedule, the checkup with the doctor. As as as as that book on trauma is aptly titled, the body keeps the score. Right? The body keeps a record of these things.

Mark Odland: 12:07

And if you don't answer what your body's telling you, it just keeps yelling. It's like that smoke alarm going off. It keeps getting louder and louder until you can literally feel the pain in your body, the stress, the anxiety, the tension. Our bodies are screaming, and it's a sign that we're not choosing reality. But we don't have to keep making that choice.

Mark Odland: 12:31

Alright? So alright. Second. Second choice. Choose connection.

Mark Odland: 12:37

Let's be honest, right? Modern life is is pretty strange if you think about it. We're supposedly connected by by the Wi Fi and and through our social media, but many of us are still starving for that actual belonging for real connectedness. And, loneliness is treated by your nervous system, by my nervous system as a survival threat. So connection is not optional.

Mark Odland: 13:04

It really isn't. It's it's medicine. It's essential. It's a need. It's absolutely necessary, right, to our health and well-being.

Mark Odland: 13:13

And practically, what does this look like? How do we choose connection? Well, it means scheduling that coffee. It means reinvesting in one of your relationships, maybe with an old buddy that you haven't followed up with for a while. And so you gotta choose it.

Mark Odland: 13:29

Right? And for those of you who, like me, are leading other men, right, it's encouraging encouraging, you know, yourself and and and and others to to try something. Right? View it as an experiment. Have one honest conversation this week, and don't try to fix it.

Mark Odland: 13:51

Just risk being a little more honest and just creating creating creating a dialogue and honest communication where as as the scripture says, right, iron sharpens iron and and where a cord, right, a a cord that's braided together stronger than just one thread. Right? So these these are these are old cliches almost because they're so used, like, especially in Christian circles, but they're still very, very true. Right? So third third choice is choose freedom.

Mark Odland: 14:20

Choosing freedom is about boundaries and about margin. Okay? So according to Deloney, freedom is not escaping from responsibility because that's what can it feel like sometimes, But it's actually creating enough margin to show up for what matters. Right? For a guy who's always on, right, who's who's who's always working, this might mean blocking a no meeting hour on your calendar to say no to one extra commitment, to give yourself a fifteen minute buffer between work and family.

Mark Odland: 14:55

Freedom equals breathing room. Right? And breathing room equals less reactivity. So, again, if you find yourself mumbling the words, I don't have a choice, it's time to take a step back and wake up. But that I don't mean to be harsh here, but but if we're not careful, we can slip into a victim mentality.

Mark Odland: 15:15

I don't have a choice. Right? Where we we give up our personal agency. It's not a good thing. We have to constantly remind ourselves.

Mark Odland: 15:24

I'd say, as Jocko Willink says, take radical ownership. We always have a choice. You gotta embrace that mentality even when it doesn't feel true. You have a choice. You can choose freedom.

Mark Odland: 15:34

You can create boundaries, and you can take back the territory that was lost. And, yes, could setting a boundary disappoint someone? Yeah. It could. But we have to learn to be okay with that if we're doing it for a reason that's healthy and true.

Mark Odland: 15:49

Okay? And for all you recovering people pleasers out there, this might be a tough step to choose for you, but it's something that's worth doing. Alright. Some are worth digging into. Alright.

Mark Odland: 16:00

Fourth. The fourth choice is to choose health and healing. And this one might seem obvious in theory, but it's easy to ignore in everyday life. So even for guys like me, right, immersed in this stuff every day, I've still got to listen to my own advice. Right?

Mark Odland: 16:17

Sleep matters. Movement. Exercise matters. Nutrition matters. And so does the actual therapeutic work.

Mark Odland: 16:25

Real processing, real grief, real exposure to healing, like doing EMDR therapy. Again, that's my specialty. As a certified EMDR therapist, I help guys get to the root of their stress, to connect the head and the heart, to get the truth into those wounded places, to heal up those old insecurities once and for all so they don't keep popping up in everyday life or or or so they don't, you know, sabotage life because you have to try so hard to avoid those feelings and those insecurities. Right? EMDR can heal that permanently.

Mark Odland: 17:00

Right? We need to reprocess the material so it doesn't hijack our present. And Deloney emphasizes that you know, medication, for example, can turn down the alarm, right, with that metaphor, but it doesn't necessarily put out the fire. Right? So you gotta do the work, brothers.

Mark Odland: 17:17

There's no way around it. Whether you're on medication or not, you have to get to the root. You have to get to the fire. You have to heal your trauma. You have to change your environment.

Mark Odland: 17:26

You have to fix what needs to be fixed. Take care of your body. Take care of your mind. Take care of your soul. Choose health and face what needs to be faced.

Mark Odland: 17:39

We need courage for that, right? We gotta we gotta take the risk. We gotta face face what needs to be faced. Alright. Fifth, choose mindfulness, right?

Mark Odland: 17:50

So mindfulness isn't about perfection, meditating perfectly like a a Zen monk. Right? It doesn't have to be like that. It's really about creating a gap between stimulus and response. So as Americans, we love to be reactive.

Mark Odland: 18:10

Mindfulness, gives you the pause to choose a better response. Right? And that's where actually the choice is made. Right? So so often, we're just in this autopilot.

Mark Odland: 18:20

We're cause and effect. We're just pinballing off ourselves without actually exercising any kind of choice. And so the stimulus happens, mindfulness slows things down, and then we can choose our response rather than being reactive. Right? And, practically, here's what it looks like.

Mark Odland: 18:38

It it it might be noticing what you're feeling, naming that emotion. And if you can't name it, learn to name it. If Zach were here right now, he would be pulling up his his feelings wheel. Right? We joke about that as guys.

Mark Odland: 18:54

But, yeah, let's let's be honest. We need to get have a better understanding of our own wiring. Right? Not to be soft or to be stuck there, but to to be educated, to not have our feelings master us. Right?

Mark Odland: 19:05

We have to be we have to understand them to have mastery and control over them. So we have to educate ourselves. We have to notice where we feel those emotions in our body and we have to be curious about what those emotions are trying to tell us. I once had a wise EMDR trainer say that all emotions are wired within us to do two things, to connect us or to protect us. And first of all, rhymes, so that that helps.

Mark Odland: 19:34

But but it's also true. Right? It really it really rung true for me when I heard that. And it strikes me that, you know, emotions are not right or wrong. Sometimes we judge emotions, but emotions are just they're reflexive responses, right?

Mark Odland: 19:51

They're trying to communicate something. It may or may not be an accurate message, but they're trying to communicate something. Right? It's like the fire alarm, right? It's trying to communicate that there's a fire.

Mark Odland: 20:01

So there are no wrong emotions. There's there's just wrong wrong behaviors, wrong responses. Emotions are kind of like kind of like music. They ask us to listen. They invite us to listen in.

Mark Odland: 20:12

And when we pay attention, we can better tell if they're actually working well or if they're out of tune. Right? Or is our nervous system in harmony or is old trauma getting in the way, making our nervous system out of tune so it's not communicating correctly or not communicating accurately? Is our emotional response too flat or too sharp? Right?

Mark Odland: 20:34

So I know many of you guys who listen to to this podcast are Christians, and so I also want to assure you that that word mindfulness does not mean you're practicing Buddhism. It's it's basically saying within my faith grounded in Christ it's like extracting the psychological and scientific truths about mindfulness. And I joke sometimes that you know just because Buddhism kind of crystallized and branded some of these things, it doesn't mean they have a monopoly on something like breathing or thinking or detaching, right? It's like these are things built into our own wiring and so if truth about how God made us shows up in a certain area of life in in this other area or this other insight or this scientific discovery, it's still God's truth. Right?

Mark Odland: 21:27

And so as Christians, we can say as long as it doesn't contradict contradict our faith, we can we can glean insights, from these other areas. Right? And mindfulness, in my opinion, is one of these. And so being tapped into this concept of mindfulness can help promote calm. It can allow us to choose again, this is the choice again, to choose to pay attention and to choose mindfulness.

Mark Odland: 21:54

Alright. And sixth, choose belief. So Deloney is clear that people always tend to anchor themselves to something. Right? Money, control, performance, or God.

Mark Odland: 22:06

Right? And what you worship, you know, what you're anchored to shapes your peace. And so, again, if you're a person of faith, choosing belief means letting your identity rest in something transcendent, not in the metrics of success, right, and approval of other people. But something deeper, right? And and for those of you who, might not be religious, belief might be some kind of steady north, something bigger than you that shapes purpose and meaning that anchors your values, your your priorities, your your compass.

Mark Odland: 22:43

Right? But either way, you gotta align your choices with something that's an anchor, and that helps the nervous system to feel safe and feel oriented in a chaotic world. And, again, for my Christian brothers out there, you know that that anchor is Jesus. Right? That's that's a that's who you know the anchor to be, the grounding of all being.

Mark Odland: 23:04

And and some of you know that the word sin, right, sounds like a very religious term, but it's actually an archery term that simply means missing the mark. Right? And so being anchored, being anchored, being aligned with the truth is like hitting that hitting that bull's eye or or just or knowing. Here's here's a way to flip it. Or knowing that a loving savior hit that bull's eye for you even though you continue to miss the mark.

Mark Odland: 23:29

Right? And so we choose belief. We choose belief. We choose faith. And if we're having a hard time believing today, right, if if you're, don't believe or you're one of my agnostic brothers out there questioning, not sure about this whole Jesus thing, you know, simply crying out as as a man actually did in scripture.

Mark Odland: 23:48

His Jesus asked him if he believed, and his response were Jesus was Jesus, I believe. Help my unbelief. The guy was honest enough to recognize his doubts. And guess what? Jesus didn't didn't, criticize him.

Mark Odland: 24:04

He said, you know, he he he prays that kind of faith. Right? So help me unbelief. That that could be a simple prayer, guys, for all of us. So let's pull all this together with three bite sized steps, ways that you can use Deloney's ideas in your life this week.

Mark Odland: 24:19

One, use that fire versus alarm metaphor as a tool to reflect on. Right? Really take that in. If you're saying, I'm anxious all the time. Well, instead ask, what's the fire?

Mark Odland: 24:31

Is it loneliness? Is it financial chaos? Is it a toxic relationship? Is it physical illness or unresolved grief? Once you identify what it is, then build a micro plan, right, to extinguish at least one part of that fire in the next seven days.

Mark Odland: 24:48

Small wins build safety. And again, within this framework, anxiety is not something to artificially try to extinguish. For many, the anxiety actually makes sense. It's your body's way of screaming that there are things in your life that need attention, fires that need to be put out. So listen.

Mark Odland: 25:07

Don't just try to shut off the anxiety. Don't just smash the fire alarm. Figure out what the anxiety is pointing to and take action. Start small, celebrate the small wins, and build a track record of success over time. Alright.

Mark Odland: 25:22

Two, build a six, six daily choices checklist for yourself. It could be as simple as writing those choices down, the six choices, and rating, one item each morning. Did I choose reality today? Yes or no? Could be that simple.

Mark Odland: 25:39

Did I choose connection? Did I choose freedom? Did I choose health, mindfulness, belief? Right? You know, you could rank yourself zero to a 100 or it could be a pass fail.

Mark Odland: 25:48

Right? Whatever works for you, but but holding yourself accountable. Did I choose this? Did I choose this? Over time, patterns will emerge.

Mark Odland: 25:56

Right? Over time, your nervous system will learn that you're making different steady choices. And stubborn bad habits can become stubborn good habits over time. Your nervous system, can be reset, guys. It really can.

Mark Odland: 26:10

Your brain can be rewired, but you have to be intentional. This will not happen by accident. It won't happen overnight. It won't happen by just waiting and hoping for a change. So you gotta be intentional.

Mark Odland: 26:22

Right? Build that checklist. Rate one item each morning. This is doable. Alright.

Mark Odland: 26:29

Number three. Give yourself grace for the supports that you already have in place. My guess is you've already got some good stuff going. Right? So but as you celebrate those things, you're already doing well and giving yourself grace for it.

Mark Odland: 26:43

You still gotta prioritize your personal agency, again, that you have a choice. You have the ability to choose. For example, if you're on a medication or using some other immediate strategy to get through a crisis, accept this is where I've been. This is where I am. Give yourself some grace because you probably have been through a lot.

Mark Odland: 27:03

Right? And many of the men that I work with, they need a lot of grace because their default is to be very hard on themselves. But as, you recenter yourself in grace, now look at the horizon and ask what's next. Have the guts to ask the deeper questions, like what deeper repairs can I make so this anxiety, the stress, the self destruction doesn't keep returning? The combination of immediate relief, grace, plus the courage to look at that horizon line and and ask the tough questions and do the work to have long term repair, that's where the real change happens.

Mark Odland: 27:45

And from a biblical framework, there's a word for this, right? Repentance. Literally turning around and going in a new direction. Alright. There's the three steps brothers.

Mark Odland: 27:55

When I talk to other clinicians or when I look back on my own work, what I love about Deloney's model, with my own twists of course, is that both that it's both humble and active. It doesn't pathologize people or flatten suffering into slogans. It says start with the truth, choose relationship, make room, take care of your body, get curious about your mind, and let something larger than your fears steady you. That's a theology and a psychology that invites action. Right?

Mark Odland: 28:26

It's Christian friendly, and it's practical for anyone. Alright. Back to the ranch. Alright. So before the selfie, John John smiled.

Mark Odland: 28:34

Doctor Deloney himself smiled and said he's so he he said that he still felt like he was running some sort of scam. And that struck me, right? He was joking, of course, but here's the thing. Even people who have built huge platforms, written books, helped thousands of people can still wrestle with the same human doubts that we all do. Imposter feelings don't discriminate.

Mark Odland: 28:56

They visit pastors, podcasters, and therapists, myself included. Right? They visit fathers and sons. They, yes, even visit, one of a kind unicorn unicorns like John Deloney at rodeos. Right?

Mark Odland: 29:09

So that's that's part of the lesson too, to be honest. And and honest is honesty is strength, admitting mistakes, acknowledging doubt, naming anxiety. These things make you a better man, a better leader, a better husband and a father because they let other people see the real path forward, and it invites trust. So practical takeaway. Do one thing this week from Deloney's, six choices.

Mark Odland: 29:38

Make it measurable, make it small. Maybe it's this call that one friend schedule that time to talk. Or maybe you need something more surgical, pick one fire and take one step toward it. Schedule the doctor's appointment, write the difficult email, Sit for five minutes and name what you're feeling. Those small actions change the nervous system over time.

Mark Odland: 29:58

They're the daily, coal that, that sparks warmth and heat instead of setting off the fire alarms like crazy. Right? So before we go, a quick word about deeper healing. Everything we talked about is practical. Right?

Mark Odland: 30:12

And so you can blend this in with, whatever you already know, whatever you're already doing. And if you try all these things, which are really good ideas, and you're still having a tough time shaking these things, shaking those struggles, they're still stealing your joy and stealing your peace. I hope you do consider EMDR therapy, right? You can use EMDR to process the trauma that keeps relighting that alarm. You can use CBT, a cognitive behavioral therapy, to map out the thought patterns that feed that avoidance, right?

Mark Odland: 30:43

You can dig deeper into your faith, rebuilding identity and meaning. And you can combine all these modalities with the six daily choices as a kind of scaffolding, a daily rhythm to support the deeper, sometimes slow but lasting change that's in process. Right? And for my fellow believers, lean into worship and community as more than Sunday content. Let those practices reorient your heart.

Mark Odland: 31:06

There's real psychology and spiritual power in worship that reorders what you value. Let your faith be a practical anchor, not just that feel good idea. Alright. Final story. I I got that selfie with doctor Deloney, and I didn't throw the hang loose sign like he did, which I deeply regret, by the way.

Mark Odland: 31:26

As a guy who literally surfs and does jujitsu, this is like the sign that us guys do and I forgot to do it. What's up? But joking aside, I left that ranch inspired. I wasn't dazzled. I wasn't starstruck, but I was inspired to see a fellow man, brother like Doctor.

Mark Odland: 31:44

Deloney, who's done the work, who still shows up, who still admits mistakes, who still teaches a practical daily way to pursue peace. That gives me hope for myself, for the men that I serve every day as we work through this through these challenges and through this life imperfectly. If you wanna go deeper, pick up John's book, Building a Non Anxious Life, or listen to his podcast episodes where he breaks down these things. And if you're interested in getting in more depth, in more depth support, through counseling or coaching, we're always happy to do a free consult to see if it's a good fit. Just go to escapethecagenow.com to find out more.

Mark Odland: 32:20

And as always, if you enjoyed this content, subscribe, like, hit that bell notification so you don't miss out on future podcasts. Thanks for listening, brothers. If this episode helped you, share with a guy who needs to hear it. Do one small thing today that leads to a deeper piece that rewrites this life. And if you're on YouTube, drop a comment below about, hey.

Mark Odland: 32:40

What animal do you feel like this week? Are you a unicorn? One of a kind like John? Are you a fellow lion? You can be as silly as you want.

Mark Odland: 32:47

We read the comments. Get a good conversation going. We'll be back next week with an up another episode. Until then, be brave, brothers. Be honest.

Mark Odland: 32:55

Choose to show up.