Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The podcast focuses on fiercely empowering women in business, as entrepreneurs and women in male-dominated industries, featuring guests who embody strength, resilience, competence, and a touch of sass as they navigate business and life.
Looking for guests who are willing to bring a wealth of experience and knowledge but also possess the strength, resilience, and sass that align with the tone of my podcast.
I want their stories and insights to provide immense value to my audience, helping me to establish a powerful podcast as a must-listen for women looking to empower themselves in business. The goal is to build competence and discover how brave women can be in business.
Welcome to Superheroes in Heels, the podcast where powerful women rise, lead, and own the room. I'm Kimberley Borgans, your host, fellow trailblazer, and unapologetic advocate for women in the world of business. With over thirty years of experience building success in a male dominant industry, I'm here to empower you to do the same. Each week, you'll hear bold conversations with inspiring guests who embody strength, resilience, a little dash of sass, and a little bit of grace. Together, we'll challenge the status quo, break through barriers, unlock your confidence, and unleash your inner superhero.
Kimberley Borgens:You ready? Let's go.
Kimberley Borgens:Hello, and welcome to Superheroes in Heels, the podcast that fiercely empowers women to step into command presence, own their role, and lead like the strong capable women that they are. I'm your host, Kimberley Borgans. And today, I'm joined with a woman who brings great value to the space of love, l o v e, doctor Elizabeth Rosner. We're gonna go into what that means in just a moment. But doctor Elizabeth Rosner, one of the amazing things about her that I am just so glad that she's on superheroes and heels with me today is this woman just exudes love.
Kimberley Borgens:Every time I see her, she has the happiest smile on her face. She just loves on people. She is constantly loving on people. But let me tell you, there's a reason why. She is this phenomenal resource for a love revolution.
Kimberley Borgens:She is a powerful, dynamic woman who has worked really hard in her life, and we're gonna talk about some of those amazing things. But her core space about her love revolution is leading with love, which stands for letting others voluntarily evolve or letting yourself evolve as well. And doctor Elizabeth Rosner, I just am so excited to have you. You have so many accolades. I mean, you have such a great past, but more importantly, I just wanna kinda look at where are we going now?
Kimberley Borgens:What what's happening today? And so doctor Elizabeth Rosner, welcome to Superheroes in Heels with me today.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Hi, Kimberley. I am so delighted to be here. You know, I love
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:a prom prom. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for asking me to be a part of this amazing podcast.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So excited about, watching your trajectory and where things are heading for you, and really delighted and honored that you've asked and, great to be a part of things. Thank you. Yay.
Kimberley Borgens:Look. I remember, like, I have seen you at many, events and everything else, and I remember a great connection that we had is I just loved absolutely loved the necklace that you are wearing. And it was a fun necklace. I love wearing it, by the way. And it was a fun necklace.
Kimberley Borgens:And, you know, I said to you, like, oh, can I borrow that? Because I was, going up on stage, and you said, absolutely. And so, you let me borrow it. And then when I went to return it, you gifted it to me. You just said, you know, hey.
Kimberley Borgens:I wanna give this to you. I mean, that is just your heart. Right? And me, I'm like, oh, no. I can't take this.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? And you're like, yes. You can. Please accept that, please. And I and I did.
Kimberley Borgens:You know? And then we got further into the story on that, and, you know, I I loved how that actually came out. I just love that necklace. And and, you know, I just couldn't let it sit. But Aw.
Kimberley Borgens:But I you know, it was a great memory remembering. It's a great reminder for me that sometimes, you know, it's okay to just go, somebody's sharing some love with me.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Because it's very easy sometimes for us to give love.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:It's harder for us to receive love. Absolutely. You know, when we say love is letting others voluntarily evolve, so you're other focused. But when it's also letting ourselves voluntarily evolve, and what does that mean? Now here's the crazy thing, Kimberley.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You know, you insisted. Like, I told you the story of where I got it, and you insisted on on gifting me something Yes.
Kimberley Borgens:In exchange.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Do you know I still haven't? No. Every time I look at it, I'm like, but nothing has been compelling enough to not have a memory of Kimberley there. So, I mean, you know, when I open when I open it, I I see you all the time. So that's also the beautiful idea of connection is you never know what's the thing that's gonna knit somebody's heart together.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And I hope it's okay for me to say this. The reason why I mean, obviously, I wanted to gift it to you, but but one of the most compelling things that you said was Lawrence loved it. And I was like, oh, ma'am. If Lawrence loves it, by all means. You know?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I mean, you know, that was such a sweet, like, you know, sweet thing for him to even notice. And then for him to say, then I was like, okay. So yeah.
Kimberley Borgens:Well, you know, that that's true. As you know, it's sometimes men don't pick up on the little things. Right? Right. Right.
Kimberley Borgens:Very clear on this one. Right. And so he still is like, oh, I love that one. Right? So that's true.
Kimberley Borgens:That's a great story. Good. Okay. So let's dig in a little bit more on you know, tell us about leading with love. So those of you who are listening, I just want you to know there's a this is an acronym, love, letting others voluntarily evolve.
Kimberley Borgens:And tell us a little bit about, your journey in getting to leading with love.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You know, I'm gonna start with just the overarching name of my company is Love Revolution, and it has three pillars. It's based on a quote by Martin Luther King, and we can get into that later if you like. One of the pillars is leading with love. And for, your audience so, y'all, I just turned 55, and I'm at the age that we did shrinky dinks.
Kimberley Borgens:You know I remember shrinky dinks.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You remember shrinky dinks? So I did a shrinky dink when I was five years old at summer camp, and it's one of these big, like, pieces of paper, like not paper, plastic.
Kimberley Borgens:Mhmm. That you write on.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Write on it or whatever. Then you put it in the oven, and it shrinks it down. So it takes, like, a paper sized piece of plastic and then shrinks it down. You can feel how hard it is. I did this at five.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:God is love. Love is God to mom and dad and Catherine from Elizabeth.
Kimberley Borgens:Aw.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You, Kimberley, at five years old, that love was a part of my story. But then the world came in, the world was like, oh, love is weak, and love is stupid, and it's passive, and it doesn't work, and you gotta have it siloed, or you gotta be tough, and you can't show love. Or, you know, love is just really like that eros love, that brotherly love, or the romantic love, and so it's really only reserved for a few people. And we need to be fiercely independent. And in so doing, we need to define our groups.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So you're either this or this, you know, and you got a lot of dividing lines. And it's like you know? And I was tripping over all these dividing lines. And it was not until I encountered the philosophy and methodology of nonviolence, which is a love centered philosophy Yeah. That it really it really brought my understanding to a, really, a full circle moment.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And now in in everything that I do, particularly in Leading With Love, I will say our mission is teaching 8,000,000,000 people to love 8,000,000,000 people one heart at a time. And it's amazing how many people go, oh, that's great. It's also amazing people amazing how many people go, no.
Kimberley Borgens:Exactly. No. No. You know, I think that's true because I I think what happens is we teach we're taught how to love people by the people who were taught how to love people who were taught by the people how to love people. Right?
Kimberley Borgens:So this goes back a long, long time. Mhmm. And what we need to do is learn to expand that space of love. That it's not just for your immediate family. Yes.
Kimberley Borgens:That it it's not just for your best friends. Right? But it can be I can love somebody where they are even if they're not where I want them to be. Yes. Right?
Kimberley Borgens:I can love people from a different culture. I can love people from a different background. I can love people who don't actually get along with my ideologies.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Right. Right?
Kimberley Borgens:Right. And, and so I love that about you. And, let's dig in just a little bit deeper on this. Tell us a little bit about your work with the King Center.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So in for those of you that are listening, I grew up in Athens, Georgia, which is about an hour and a half outside of Atlanta. So it's about an hour and a half from the King Center. I'm white, and obviously I'm southern, and it is entirely possible to grow up in the South and just stay in your little white bubble. And, as I mentioned to you all, I'm 55, and so I graduated at a time where I was taught implicitly and explicitly that the civil war was about states' rights and not slavery. And so it when my son was in high school and he was doing US history, he was talking about the the civil war.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And I said, well, you you know that it was fought on states' rights, not slavery. And he said, mom, the states' rights to do what? And I was like, And, you know, everybody has a different a different brain mechanism. And I am really, really grateful that God gave me a brain that said if information comes in that doesn't match what's already in there rather than me immediately reject rejecting it, which happens a lot of the time, then I need to go, Why isn't that fitting in? Mhmm.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And, you know, I had been already on this process a little bit of unlearning and relearning. I had read Race Matters by Cornell West in my PhD program, and that started me doing some thinking. Anyway, because of Alexander saying that, then I started really doing some investigating, fast forward, found King Center on Twitter and attended my first two day orientation to doctor King's methodology and philosophy in April of twenty eighteen. And I mean, Kimberley, when I tell you I mean, God God said to me sitting at the King Center, you will spend the rest of your days teaching nonviolence around the world. Wow.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:No idea what that meant. None. Yeah. No idea what that meant. And now every single thing that I do is grounded and rooted in Kingian nonviolence.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So I attended the orientation in April. In August of twenty eighteen, I get an email from doctor Bernice King, which is Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King's youngest child. Mhmm. She says, I'm asked to teach my father's philosophy. I I don't have the capacity to do that.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I'm assembling a training team. Are you interested? Honestly, I thought, well, who says no to Doctor. Bernice King? Yeah.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I'm interested. Whatever, know. I didn't know. Was she, you know, asking a hundred people, a thousand people? I had no idea.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:There are 10 certified trainers. There are three senior trainers, and there's doctor Bernice. That's it.
Kimberley Borgens:Wow.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:That is it. Wow. And I tell my students all the time that an hour a day is 4% of our day. And so I study Doctor. King and nonviolence an hour a day every day because it's 4% of my day, and that's where I wanna put that 4% because it is not easy out here when life is lifing.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You know? It can it it can be easy for love not to happen. And so I want I want to be a a bearer of love. Obviously, Kimberley, you and Lawrence, know, you're you're just so easy to love. And so I'm grateful that you see that love in me.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:However, there there are people that I encounter that are far less easy to love than than your beautiful soul. And I also want them to encounter me as embodying love whether or not they accept it from me or not.
Kimberley Borgens:Right. Yeah. Absolutely. You
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:know?
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah. I was just in a mastermind session because I'm in a couple of different masterminds. But I was in a session, and, somebody was talking about, you know, sometimes you just have to let people go and move the you know, move on without them. And I kinda interjected, And I I said, I don't agree with that. Yeah.
Kimberley Borgens:I said sometimes the the your greatest the people that are your biggest critics are your family members. Right? Mhmm. And then as that happens, how could how do you stop loving them? You can't just push them aside.
Kimberley Borgens:Right. Just say, I'm not gonna love you because you don't agree with my philosophy and what I'm doing in life. Right. Right? And so I talked about, like, you can you know, if you look at to think of it like a target, you know, the circles, the different circles.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? Is I can move people out a few rungs so that they don't have as much closeness to me, but I still love on them. Yes. Still keep them together in my my circle of influence, just not my close knit circle in that moment. Right.
Kimberley Borgens:Right. And and that's people of different opinions than me and people who, you know, don't like what I'm doing or, you know, get mad when I I mentioned God because I can't be authentic if I just can't be me. Right? Right. I'll allow you to be authentic and be you.
Kimberley Borgens:Right. Right. Right? It is I don't have to throw everybody out just because they don't agree with me. They don't like me.
Kimberley Borgens:They don't wanna support my goals. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so they were like, oh, I like that idea.
Kimberley Borgens:Like, because they hadn't thought of it. They're ready to just throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yes. Yes. You know, front look at, which you may not realize is I grew up in Virginia, North Carolina, and Tennessee.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Oh, I did not know that.
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah. So in my early years, that's where I was a military brat. We lived over there in Galilee, y'all and all y'all. Oh.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You just kinda went into
Kimberley Borgens:it right there. That sounds good. I mean, with a few southern gals, and it comes right back. Yes. Yes.
Kimberley Borgens:Yes. There's a whole different mindset. There's a whole different mindset on the East Coast Of The United States than there is on the West Coast Of The United States. I'm I'm blessed because the city that I live in, has been voted as the most, diverse city in The US. Wow.
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah. So I you know, we it is Wow. Proven. We have every culture. And so if you're not willing to get along with everybody, like, how do you fit in?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yeah.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? Exactly. But there's some places that it's easy to fit in, because that's all that's there.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yes.
Kimberley Borgens:And what we wanna do is expand our mind. And I love something that you said, about, you know, thinking the way that you think is you don't there's no auto rejection for something that doesn't quite fit what your normal thinking is. Like, let me think about that because that's not what my brain already knows.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yes. Yes. Yes. I think that
Kimberley Borgens:that's powerful. If people can take that away from today, we're gonna talk about all kinds of other things that they can still take away. But, I mean, if you really think about that for just a moment Mhmm. Is and that's included in business. Mhmm.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? Because I'm a business girl, I'm thinking this through business wise, is how often do we go, oh, that's not how it's supposed to be done.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? Oh, that's not what no. That's not how you do it. Mhmm. You know, in business, sometimes you have to expand your thinking in order to grow.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Right. Right. Right.
Kimberley Borgens:Right. And so I love that statement.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yeah. Yeah. And it's what helped me honestly grow Love Revolution to have three relatively distinct pillars
Kimberley Borgens:Mhmm.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Under the umbrella of love. And, you and I, you know, are both, dear friends and and mentored by Sandra Yancey, and she talks about the power of iteration. And not too long ago, I was in a networking group, not not Sandra's networking group, but another one, and somebody said, wow. I really need to work on the way that I present about my business. They didn't call it the one minute.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You know? Yeah. In my mind I was thinking, well, I've been a part of eWomen for almost six years. So six times 12 is how many, you know, in person luncheons I've been to, plus how SPIs, plus how many icons, plus you know? And so it's the power of talking about it and tweaking it, and I it's also the power of not memorizing it.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I mean, you know, it's authentically who I am. And and it took a while to integrate particularly, it took a while to integrate leading with love or or love and debt free degree. That's the and the king center because it was even in my head, it was very siloed. So this overarching concept and how do you get to that? It it's a it's a powerful way that we as women can show up because like, you you have the word diamond behind you, and I use that example all the time is that it's you know, we are not one faceted.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:We are multi, multi faceted.
Kimberley Borgens:Absolutely.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And two things can be true at the same time. If you look at the diamond, and I'm only looking at this aspect, I think that's the only truth. Mm-mm. There's this other truth over here that's equally true. Absolutely.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You know, it it's you just have to say, okay. How does this work for me? How do I navigate this?
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah. Well, you know, my my name Kimberley. It's spelled with the l e y at the end.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Right. Right? Right.
Kimberley Borgens:I was named after Cape Kimberley, a South African diamond mine.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Oh, my god. With the
Kimberley Borgens:diamonds in the rough. And I just, you know, I just got back. You know, I was in Africa in March. I went there and had the opportunity to kinda see how diamonds were cut and how they create all those faucets on, you know, on a diamond. So I I love that analogy of, yeah,
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:that's you are gonna go right there. Who like, when I said that, who knew that you were I had no idea. That's that is so powerful. Wow.
Kimberley Borgens:Exactly. It's like how many different angles can you look at this and see something different? Yes. Right? And I don't I think people forget to do that in their businesses.
Kimberley Borgens:I think people forget to do that in their relationships. Yes. You know, my husband and I've been together for thirty five years. Good lord. I don't know how that happened, but still, thirty five years, and I can look at him and go, it's just the same old, same old.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? Or I can go, maybe if I'm thinking it's the same old, same old, maybe I need to start looking at another facet, another direction of him. That's right. Right? That's right.
Kimberley Borgens:You know, don't tell him this. Right? But because, you know, my husband, God bless him, he's the father of four, and he has got dad jokes down. Uh-huh. Right?
Kimberley Borgens:Like, can say dad jokes. And when he says these dad jokes, he thinks he is just so doggone funny. Right? I'm looking at him like, no. Yeah.
Kimberley Borgens:Just dog. But the funny thing about it is is I realized, like, that's not the energy I really wanna give to my husband. Right. So now what I'm doing, I don't think he's caught on yet. Okay?
Kimberley Borgens:But I said to him, like, he'll do this little dumb dad joke because they're meant to be dumb. I know that. Right? But in my brain, I'm like, that's just why. Right?
Kimberley Borgens:Mhmm. So he's doing these little jokes, I'm like, that's so funny, and then just walk away. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It's kinda shifted, and he's he's kinda looking at me kind of odd.
Kimberley Borgens:You know? We gotta keep the the things moving around in relationships. Exactly. Exactly. So I digress.
Kimberley Borgens:But let me let's let's move back over. Tell us a little bit about you just mentioned it, debt free degree. What is debt free degree mean?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Debt free degree, and it it under the love umbrella, it is love yourself enough to say no to student loans and yes to financial freedom. To say no to debilitating debt and yes to personal and generational wealth. So I'm very excited that I published a book last year, Debt Free Degree, and it is truly lays out the entire group blueprint of Debt Free Degree. So my story is that I earned three degrees, including my PhD, and I only took a thousand dollars in loans. So I can map any degree completely debt free.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Now there's been some things, Kimberley in the in the last few years that have made it more difficult, not impossible. We certainly can do it, but more difficult. And then there are some you know, a lot of people will say, I don't talk I don't discuss politics with anybody. I just don't. I will say, I I rarely discuss politicians with folks.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:However, at the root, politics are policies, and policies impact us. And there are some policies in a recently, passed bill through the US House that have direct negative implications for a debt free degree. One of the proposals is that scholarship money and grant money now be taxed as income. I'm
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:talking about how do you
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:get grants and scholarships. Now, if you've got to pay taxes on that, then you've got to get even more taxes I mean, more grants and scholarships. The other consideration, Kimberley, is that, I went to a phenomenal state school here in Georgia. It's a tiny little school. I got a great degree.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I have, like, really some of my dearest friends on the planet. We're still like, there's, like, 27 of us in a Facebook group that we can talk about every single thing that we wanna talk about in that Facebook group. And that lovely state school, this tiny little lovely state school for eight semesters, which is a four year degree, for eight semesters is a hundred thousand dollars today.
Kimberley Borgens:Wow. Yep.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yep. And so there are some schools, there's an elite school here in Atlanta, there's one in Tennessee, that their cost of attendance per year is approaching a hundred thousand dollars.
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Eight semesters is $400,000. Absolutely. So one of the things with debt free degree is love yourself enough to say no to student loans, to do go into that debt, whatever that looks like. And so I just spoke with a student the other day who actually is from The UK, and I know nothing about The UK system. But because I network worldwide, then her dad and I were in a group together.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Obviously, I've never met him in real life. He was like, Hey, Doctor. Ross can help you. So we had a whole conversation. She just graduated with her bachelor's, and she ultimately wants her doctorate, which is a medical doctor.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:She wants to be a clinical psychiatrist psychologist. And and so there was, like, this really I was like, okay. What is the quickest through line? Well, the quickest through line, in her mind seemed like it wasn't gonna happen. It was like kind of a shot in the dark.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So then there's this other route that you can go, but that also is difficult. Then there's this third way, which involves getting a master's in between, but then that could involve debt. And so how do you achieve that? And so it's all of these things, and we're all making choices. We are all making choices.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:For people, though, that that are, you know, graduating with six I mean, honestly, Kimberley, thirty seven percent of all students who owe student loan debt have 6 figures. 6 figures
Kimberley Borgens:of debt. Yeah.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And so how it is that we can help. So I started doing this really in 02/2005. So my parents said, we don't go into debt for education, and that that's just what I did. Yeah. And the thousand dollars came from one summer quarter that's how old I am on the quarter system.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Is the grants and scholarships and other things that I had put in place. For the other three quarters, they didn't pay during the summer. So I go into financial aid. I say that in air quotes because financial aid is not there for Elizabeth to graduate debt free. Financial aid is there for Elizabeth to get access to loans Right.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:To get the finances that the school is charging. Okay? But I go in there and I say, hey. I I wanna, you know, get a scholarship for a thousand dollars. And she goes, oh, we don't have any scholarships in the summer.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Just take this thousand dollar loan and you can figure out how to pay it off later. And I did, even though I had been taught my entire life, we do not go into debt for education. That's where my thousand dollars comes in. So this gentleman right here, I helped him graduate in 2005 with a debt free degree. He now has 12 children.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:These are six of his 12. His baby is Elizabeth. She's, the baby baby, and she's named after me, which I'm so honored and delighted. But I'm now helping second generation. All six of his oldest are in middle school, high school, or college.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:They're all on track for a debt free degree. Wonderful. So I'm helping second generation because it's a mindset as much as anything. I mean, that's the truth for a lot of things, but truly about debt free degree is the most Absolutely.
Kimberley Borgens:I remember when I went to college, I I had to take out student loans. Mhmm. I, you know, I didn't have any extra cash laying around and I didn't you know, I nobody was there to teach me how to do what you do, dear Elizabeth. Right. And I had to take out loans.
Kimberley Borgens:And, you know, lucky for me, I was smart enough to only take out what I needed. Right? And and I did, and I paid that off. It took me, I don't know, I think about five years after, after college. But one of the things I will have to say, it's a little contrary to you.
Kimberley Borgens:So since you're open minded, I will share it.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Share it, sister. Share
Kimberley Borgens:it. Because when my kids went to college, though, they, we had the money to take care of it because we planned it all out. Right? But one of the things that I did is I made them take a student loan. Mhmm.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? A $5,000 student loan. And I did that intentionally because I wanted them to build credit. Mhmm. This society right now, everything is about credit.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? So, it's not you know, they don't wanna do cash or, you know, checks aren't a big deal. You know, nowadays, everything is like, let me just run that card. Right?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Mhmm. And so one
Kimberley Borgens:of the things I did with my kids is I had them take out a student loan when they went to school, $5,000, and then had them pay it off. Mhmm. Right? Okay. We'll pay it off.
Kimberley Borgens:Let's get it paid off. I don't care. I made payments for it when they worked for me. Yes. Right?
Kimberley Borgens:Like, I have my kids raising them up and everything else. I said to him, I said, like, look, guys. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give you money. I'm not gonna just hand you money. You come to mama and you say I need some money.
Kimberley Borgens:I'm not gonna just give you money, but I'll always have a project. Yes. Right? I'll always have a project that you can earn some money. Yes.
Kimberley Borgens:And so sometimes they earn some money working for projects, and then I put it toward their student loan. Right? Yeah.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I have to say that I
Kimberley Borgens:have raised these amazing kids who understand the value of credit.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yes. Yes. And I will also say in my open mindedness, we're we're very much saying the same thing.
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Because we're much saying don't take it without thinking smartly about it. Yes. What I oftentimes hear, Kimberley, and this is what I thought you were gonna say, which is interesting because that's not what you said, is I want my kids to have skin in the game. Well, a debt free degree, you're gonna have skin in the game. I mean, a student that's earning a debt free degree, they're gonna put in their hard work.
Kimberley Borgens:So They do the work that happened.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You're exactly right. A debt free degree is not achieving that credit box, and you didn't have them take out, you know, loans for half of the amount. You know? $5,000,
Kimberley Borgens:which is $5,000.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Know, we're different too. Yeah. And so all of that is $5,000.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? Something. But I have to tell you one more thing is my one of my sons, he says to me, he calls me up one day. He says, mom, like, what happened? I'm like, what do you what do you mean?
Kimberley Borgens:I don't understand what happened. He said, like, my credit store my credit score changed. It went below 800. Yep. I mean, it went below 900.
Kimberley Borgens:That's what he said. It went below 900. And I'm like, well, honey, it's okay. He's like, no. Why did it go below 900?
Kimberley Borgens:I had kept it up there, you know, and everything else. And I said, well, you do. He said, well, I I finished paying off my Exactly. Loan. And I'm like, that's awesome.
Kimberley Borgens:That's a celebration. I said, but every time you do something with money, it's gonna make an adjustment on your credit score. Right? Because it's really it's a score that, you know, other people come up with, but it all it's always changing. Always.
Kimberley Borgens:Always changing. But my son was so proud that he had kept it so high. Right? Yes. His mind because I educated them around credits.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? In his mind, he's like, I need to keep my score 850 or better.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Kimberley Borgens:Well, it's fluctuated now because he bought vehicles and, you know, and and all that. But it was just a funny thing to me that, you know, when he picked up the phone and called me because he was all upset because his credit score went below 900. Yes. Only thing we had was a student loan.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Right. Right. Right. Right. Well, Anne, what you know, you were talking about earlier about how information comes in and I evaluate it.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I I had a a a of mine that I've known since elementary school. We don't have each other's phone numbers. We're not besties or I mean, no. We don't converse other than outside social media. But she saw that I was doing a debt free degree webinar, and so she attended.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And after twenty minutes of this webinar, she had two questions. One was, where do I go to find the best rate on student loans?
Kimberley Borgens:Mhmm.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I said, I I don't know. Yeah. And she said, okay. Second question, I'm really struggling with this. How do I situate my income in such a way that best makes sure that my son gets as much student loan as he can get?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:I was like, again, I I I don't I don't have the the answer to that. So after twenty minutes with me, every bit of that information, it just bounced right off because in her mind and and this is true for so, so, so many students. In her mind, you go to college with student loans or you don't go to college. Right. And so it's me getting that debt free degree message out there to to break through the human algorithm of take the loans and figure out how to pay it off later.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And, you know, even recently, I I was reading some articles, and it was all geared towards brand new graduates and brand new professionals and blah blah blah blah blah and having to do with money. Always in a top 10 always was, and this is how you pay off your student loans. Yeah. Always. As if everybody has to have them.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And that's just a myth. Yeah. It's just
Kimberley Borgens:Thank you. It is a myth. It is a myth because I because the truth is is that it's just money, and you can plan ahead. You can you can create the space that when you finish school, you don't have to be so stressed about finding the right job in that moment because you have so much to pay off in student loans. Right.
Kimberley Borgens:It's really about finding the right job, the right business, the right, you know, thing that just makes your soul sing for you.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And if
Kimberley Borgens:you have all that debt on your shoulder, it doesn't allow you to have that space to do that.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:That's right. That's exactly right.
Kimberley Borgens:Because now you have this debt you gotta pay off. You gotta get into any job, and it's gotta be the the best job and, you know, most money so that we can go and pay off this debt instead of the right job that fits your heart and soul, that makes you fall in love with the people around you and what you're doing as a job or business, whatever that is. Yeah. And, you know, I think that that's huge. I think what you're doing is giving a huge value to people when they can really, like, shift their mindset about Mhmm.
Kimberley Borgens:Education equals debt. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And you have something that you called a grit, system around this.
Kimberley Borgens:So tell us a little bit about that because I you know, we talked earlier that, you know, men have grit. Right? They they get in there and it's grit. But women women forget that they also have grit. So tell us a little bit about grit.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yes. And I will also say women women women have great intuition. Men do too, but women have great intuition. And, I have a word of the year every year Mhmm. And it comes from my higher power.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And I started realizing that I was actually getting my word of the year in September, which is also an interesting timing kind of thing. And so my word of the year for 2019 was grit. Mhmm. And I retired from higher ed December of twenty eighteen. So I had no idea what GRIT what that was gonna how that was gonna be impactful to me.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So I use the GRIT blueprint or, you know, the acronym GRIT in all of my coaching and teaching, whatever it is. So in terms of debt free degree, the g is grants and scholarships. So there's $46,000,000,000 in grants and scholarships. So even if even if they are gonna be taxed as income, you know, just apply for a few more and let's cover that, but there there's that much out there. Plus, I think because the federal government may be cutting so many of their grants and scholarships, then I think organizations, companies, corporations, they're gonna come in and kinda fill that gap.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:We already we just had Delta here in Atlanta just announced a $16,000,000 investment in the school system in and around the airport here in, you know, in Atlanta. So we're gonna see corporations stepping up. The r is return on investment, ROI. And so recently, I I was with a family, and the mom was a teacher is a teacher, and she has over $200,000 in student loan debt. Wow.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Because every time she wanted to increase her pay you know, similar to Kimberley. Like, Kimberley said to her child, if you want some money, then come to me and you've got a project.
Kimberley Borgens:Right.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You can earn money. Well, the school system was kind of like every single time you earn a certificate or or add on another degree or something, we're gonna increase your pay. Yeah. She had not yet ever calculated the ROI, the return on investment. And she said, I'll never pay off $200,000.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Never. No. And they're educated and You
Kimberley Borgens:what? Kimberley? Not as a teacher, she won't.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Right. There are some student loans that they you know, when you pass away and the knowledge in your head is is gone, the the that that loan passes to your heirs for them to pay off. Not all of them, but some of them do that. I have no idea if if she's in that kind of boat. And so she'd never considered ROI.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Mhmm. The I is interconnection. That's the I in all of my programs because it's this idea that we can we individually as people can be interconnected and how do we network and all of that. But even within ourselves, do you work smarter, not harder? How do you make sure that things are, when you can, that you can streamline and that kind of thing?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And then the t is my proven triangle approach. So if you think about a triangle, a three legged stool, there's SM, which is student money. There's FM, which are your friends, your family, your folks, the people you're familiar with. And then we have our favorite, and it is OPM, and it stands for other people's money. Think about it, Kimberley.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Every single dollar is OPM, every single one. Because either I have given my time and talent to someone else for them to pay me, or they have given me money or donated money, or I've inherited money, or I've won the lottery.
Kimberley Borgens:Very
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:good. But somehow, some way, every single dollar we have is OPM. That goes back to that interconnection piece. How are we using OPM? Because I'm not aware of there being $46,000,000,000 in grants and scholarships to help me buy a home or to help me buy a car.
Kimberley Borgens:Right.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:But there's that much money so you can go to school debt free.
Kimberley Borgens:Mhmm. Mhmm. And I I I think that's huge. I hope, our listeners can really see that that, you know, there's education. Look.
Kimberley Borgens:Education is great. I'm all for education. The more that you know, the more knowledge that you have, the more skill sets that you can bring to the marketplace, the more valuable you become as long as you utilize it correctly. Right?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And That's fine.
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah. And so in education, you can get other people's money. You can get grants and scholarships. You can do all those things, and you can't do the same thing without putting in the work. So military, for example.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? Military, you go into the military and you you get out, on, you know, on a good on out. You can get a a VA loan, which will help you with your buying a house, but there's not that many scholarships, like you said, available for buying houses and buying cars and and doing all the other stuff. So why not utilize, your educational side of it so that you can then save for those other pieces in life that don't have that offering.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And speaking of the military, you know, oftentimes people will say, okay. I've heard you say you can map any degree debt free. Tell me how you can do that with, you know, a legal degree or a medical degree or something like that. And I was talking to a mom, and, she and I were both vendors at a, community, awareness fair. And so I was there with Debt Free Degree.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:She was there with her organization. Her daughter was on track to she is on track to become a medical doctor. She asked me, what would how would I map that debt free if I can do it? And I said military is a great way to do that. And she said, oh, no.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:We we would never do that. You know? It's kinda bit her head like this. Okay. That that's up to you.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And she said, my daughter has accrued $400,000 in student loan debt thus far, $400,000, and she is going to do a repayment plan. So she's gonna go work for a hospital, and then after she does that for x amount of years, then it'll wipe all that out. My understanding is many, if not all of those repayment plans are also now nonexistent. So here's this young lady who consciously knew that there was a debt free option that she said, that's not for me. But fine.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:We all have choices. Yeah. And also, I'm gonna do this other thing, but now this other thing isn't available.
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So now she's on the hook for $400,000 plus whatever she accrues between now and the time she graduates.
Kimberley Borgens:Yeah. A whole they have to re recreate and rethink some new ways on doing all of that now because if not, you know, it's just gonna be constant debt for the rest of her life. Right. Right. But, you know, I think that the the biggest thing that I I hear from you, doctor Roz, is well, first off, we can just gotta love everybody.
Kimberley Borgens:This is love revolution. Right?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yes. Love
Kimberley Borgens:it. Yes. Love out there in the world. And Yes. And, you know, really rethink how we think on stuff.
Kimberley Borgens:Right? That that auto rejection, let go of that auto rejection so that we can see that love in the world. Yes. And then also when it comes to, the debt free degree, right, is, you have that book. It shares all that information, but we have to rethink, you know, what we automatically will reject when it comes to education.
Kimberley Borgens:Yes. And Yeah. Do something just a little bit different. Yes. And, you know, and we gotta bring that grit to the table as women.
Kimberley Borgens:Not just to trust our intuition, which we which we have a lot, but, you know, to expand that and dig deeper into it. Mhmm. You know, I I just think that's that's wonderful. So let me, some rapid fire questions. Okay.
Kimberley Borgens:Okay. Let's see. Heels or sneakers? Oh, sneakers. Sneakers.
Kimberley Borgens:Is there a time when you do wear heels?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:No. And and I was about to say, I'm in my mother of the groom era. My son is engaged, and he's getting married early next year to the most delightful well, I am truly, truly gaining a daughter, and I am so excited. And so she was actually at our house yesterday, and we were talking about how she said, you can either wear, you know, like, mid calf length dress or or floor length. And at first, I was like, I might do mid calf length.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Was like, oh, floor length means I don't have to wear heels. So
Kimberley Borgens:Being strategic there. Yes.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yeah. So, yeah, no heels ever.
Kimberley Borgens:Okay. Let's see. Favorite day of the week and why? Today.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Today is always my favorite day.
Kimberley Borgens:You know, that is you. Yes. It's you.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yes. Yes. And actually, I end every day with Y A Y.
Kimberley Borgens:What does that mean?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday instead of, you know, Monday. Yeah. And a lot of people say Friday. Well, yeah, Friday. Yeah.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:But I mean, you know, there are other six days that end in y a y. So
Kimberley Borgens:That's awesome. I love that. Tell me, what's something that's still on your bucket list?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Oh, on my bucket list. Well, my husband and I just, we did a cruise at Thanksgiving last year, and we discovered that we liked it. We discovered that we really liked the boat. And I had a a networking call, and just in the the process of that call, this woman said, my husband and I love cruising. We've been on, like, 25 cruises.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:And I said, what has been your favorite? She said, well, it's only for people that really like a boat. And I was like, okay. You know? Because you're at sea so many days.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:But she said it is, it's when they're switching the boat over from being an Alaskan cruise to a Caribbean cruise in the winter. And so it's Vancouver to Hawaii, and we're doing that in October. So I'm really excited.
Kimberley Borgens:Good for you. That's wonderful. Okay. Then you'll be able to check that bucket list off.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Yes. Exactly.
Kimberley Borgens:If you had any superpower, if you could get any superpower, what would it be?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Oh my god. Okay. I I have the superpower of love.
Kimberley Borgens:Yes. You do.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:You the superpower to ensure that 8,000,000,000 people love 8,000,000,000 people.
Kimberley Borgens:See? That is your superpower. And why is that important for you?
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Because when we when we all look at each other and and we all realize we all have dignity, we all have worth, when we realize that the violence and the oppression and the conflict that just because we've done it for millennia, it it's not working. When you think about the means and the ends, you know, you as Jimmy Carter says, you can't bomb your way to peace. You know? Even even when my son was young, I spanked him with a wooden spoon because I was spanked with a wooden spoon, and I spanked him because he was throwing sand at another kid in the sandbox. I inflicted violence on my child to teach him not to inflict violence.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Right. And we this without thinking. And so if 8,000,000,000 people are loving 8,000,000,000 people, we're not gonna see the violence and the oppression and the inequity that we have now. Now when we have conflict, absolutely. We're not all gonna agree.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Right. However, to to watch our world house with the idea of 8,000,000,000 people loving 8,000,000,000 people, what can we accomplish, y'all?
Kimberley Borgens:Amen. Come on. Absolutely. This is such a great episode, doctor Roz. I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to stay.
Kimberley Borgens:You know, like I like I already said, there's been some key takeaways, some some very powerful pieces that we can take away. Look. If you wanna get in connection with doctor Roz, it's really easy. Doctor Roz, d r r o z, because that's what she lovingly goes by very affectionately. DoctorRoz.love.
Kimberley Borgens:So doctorRoz.love. Go see that. That's her website. Connect with her. She's also on, of course, every social platform, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, that you can connect with her, doctor Elizabeth Rosner.
Kimberley Borgens:You know? And you can also connect with her, when you go to doctorRos, .love to get her a mini session of leading with love mini session. Think that's a huge value. So make sure that you have that opportunity to to, you know, go over there and, connect with her because, look, I know that my connection with you has been just a wonderful space, full of love, full of heart. You have some amazing qualities about you that, more people, if they could just step into them just a little bit, make a huge difference in our world.
Kimberley Borgens:And so I'm so glad that you're here. Thank Make sure that you connect with doctor Roz. Look. If you love this, podcast today, then please share it with your friends. Write a review.
Kimberley Borgens:You know, who knows? I might actually mention you in an upcoming episode. But if this is something that you know somebody who's thinking, you know, the graduation season is right here and you think somebody needs to learn how to go to college debt free, then this is the time to to get either get the book debt free degree or connect with doctor Roz at doctor Roz. Love. But really, you know, dig in because you can make a difference in somebody else's life by sharing this information.
Kimberley Borgens:So share this episode, subscribe to the podcast, and, you know, put it on social. That that would be ways to get more women to be able to come and listen to our podcast. Next episode is going to be a powerful one. It I will be talking about when your comfort when is your comfort zone good for you? Right?
Kimberley Borgens:Like, most of the time, hear leaders talking about how you can't you know, you don't move ahead. You don't grow when you're sitting in your comfort zone, and I'm gonna challenge that in my next episode. So I hope that you look forward to us. Doctor. Roz, thank you so much for joining us today.
Kimberley Borgens:I look forward to seeing you again real soon.
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:Thank you, love. Thank you for having me. What a delight and joy, and, I will forever associate you with diamonds. Me too.
Kimberley Borgens:Thank you so much
Dr. Elizabeth Rosner:subscribe to the show and leave a review. It helps us to reach more women who are ready to unleash their power and lead with confidence. And if you do leave a review, you might just hear your name in an upcoming episode. If today's conversation lit a fire in you, share it with your network and join us inside the hive society at KimberleyBorgans.com, where powerful women gather to break barriers and rise together. Until next time, keep showing up, standing strong, and heels or not, keep embracing your inner superhero.