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Welcome to The Overflow—the bonus round of faith and real-life conversation with Brandon and Susan Thomas. Every week, they unpack the powerful insights, behind-the-scenes experiences, and personal reflections that didn’t quite fit into Sunday’s sermon.
This is where the conversation gets practical, honest, and a little bit unscripted. Whether it's an encouraging word, a deeper dive into Scripture, or a hilarious moment from their week, Brandon and Susan bring fresh perspective and spiritual fuel to keep you going.
It’s real talk, fresh takes, and full hearts.
These are the conversations too good to cut and too real to miss.
Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, x, whatever. If you're on any social media, you are in an algorithm. So how do I know what to trust? Welcome to The Overflow. Today, we're gonna talk about how to break the algorithm.
Speaker 1:The algorithm.
Speaker 2:We gotta be watching that algorithm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The algorithm. What is the algorithm, Susan? Okay. I wanna hear
Speaker 2:you I wanna just tell you in my scientific expertise because if anyone knows me, I'm a technology
Speaker 1:Yeah. You're a real tech girl. Beast. I am so unread emails do you have? I have the number?
Speaker 2:I don't have my phone with me.
Speaker 1:When you look at your phone, I want a broad range. Is it a 100? Is it five?
Speaker 2:It might be, like, in the six figure digits.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. It's in the thousands. K. One of us feels a compulsion to clear their unread emails, delete, delete, delete, reread. The other of us
Speaker 2:I gave up about ten years ago.
Speaker 1:You gave up a long, long time ago. So unread. They're just sitting there. So you have a 10,000.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or Which makes it all the more the miracle when I actually do see your email.
Speaker 1:Right. This is the point.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right. It's it's incredible. Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's The so the algorithm, it's been said, it's like and this is this is so crazy. But when you're on social media, on any of the Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, X, whatever you're on, if you're on social media, there is a technology that is discerning what you are into, what you're interested in, and it feeds you more of that. It's an information loop.
Speaker 2:Right. And I would say my definition of the algorithm is I really think pranking people is funny. Now not when they're hurt. I don't want anybody to get hurt. But I find a lot of my social media feeds me pranking people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's when you know you're in the algorithm.
Speaker 2:That's my definition of the algorithm. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. And for me, the things that are in my algorithm are I have sports, I have politics, and I have funny stuff. Oh, and food.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Those are the four. Sports, politics, funny stuff, and then how to cook stuff. Yeah. And that's or restaurants. That's me.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess that's what I'm interested in.
Speaker 2:And mine changes because if I see a cute outfit on social media and I wanna know more about that, all of sudden I'm getting like 10,000,000 posts about dresses or whatever the outfit is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're into it.
Speaker 2:It's constant. But I think that most of us as users are not really thinking about that algorithm. We're just consuming, or we're just whatever is on my feed, I'm looking at it. Whatever interests me, I go and I drill down and dig deeper. And then before we know it, we're in the loop.
Speaker 1:We're in the loop. And the algorithm has been compared to, it's not a window, it's a mirror. And the real scary thing is, it's reflecting what you already believe, but there's someone behind that mirror that is feeding you more of what to believe. Couple of statistics that I saw, 70% of YouTube watch time comes from algorithmically recommended videos. Okay?
Speaker 1:And users who watch one conspiracy adjacent video. Okay? So, like, if you're kind of out there on the edge, like, we didn't really land on the moon or stuff like that. I have If not you are, if you're watching a conspiracy even if you're, like, think it's funny. Right?
Speaker 1:A conspiracy adjacent video, when you watch one of them, you are systematically recommended more extreme content in subsequent sessions. In other words, the algorithm is not neutral. The algorithm will advance. Yeah. And so we see this.
Speaker 1:And so, you know, it's been said it takes a village to raise a child. It takes a village to raise a family. It takes a village. Okay? And we could talk about that all day long.
Speaker 1:There's truth in that, that we can't do it alone, but at the end of the day, I hate that phrase because it's it's not the village's responsibility, it's the parent's responsibility. That being said, if it takes a village, that African proverb, if it takes a village, what if your village is crazy? Okay. Like, what if your village is crazy? And here's the bad news, your algorithm is your village.
Speaker 2:Okay. That's powerful. That's really powerful when you understand that the algorithm, the loop that you find yourself in that continue to continues to feed us more and more information. What if they're unwell? Yeah.
Speaker 2:What if the algorithm itself and those with the voices behind the post and the feeds and the reels and the videos that we watch, what if those people are unwell, and what if their messages are not of God?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, this is what we have to contend with.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we're seeing this.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We're seeing people who are in their algorithm, and I believe being fed more and more increasingly extreme views, they're finding themselves. You wake up and you see people, they're almost unrecognizable, they're angry. They're passionate, and then you get into a conversation, and it's just one, you know, one feeding you one video after another video from one perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Have you spoken with anyone? Do you know anyone? You know, or is it all from YouTube?
Speaker 2:Coming from your feed. Well, and here, just to pile on, here's some more interesting stats that I wanted to share. So Institute for Strategic Dialogue said that YouTube's recommendation system has been described as powering about 70% of all video views on the platform. So YouTube's recommendation system. There's a system that's recommending what is being put out there, and that is 70% of what we watch
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:On YouTube. And then it says that it shows people are not simply choosing content. A large portion of what they consume is being selected
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And served by an algorithm. Alright. Here's another one. Think this is interesting. Okay.
Speaker 2:A Pew's report said that teen technology in 2024 found YouTube remains the most widely used platform, so that may have changed in 2026. But we kinda see a trend. TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat are also widely used. And that nearly half of teens, so half of the teen population, they say that they are online almost constantly. So there's a magnetic pull to what we're talking about as well.
Speaker 2:There's as a draw to it, and then that I found this to be really troubling, Center for Countering Digital Hate. They found that the vulnerable TikTok test accounts so there were test accounts created, and these were of younger people, received 12 times more recommendations for self harm and for suicide videos than standard accounts. Ugh. Unbelievable. Also found TikTok served potentially harmful content as often, listen to this, as every thirty nine seconds in the study.
Speaker 1:I read somewhere that there was, you know, with AI, you can now talk back to the to the AI.
Speaker 2:Oh,
Speaker 1:yeah. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm it just reminded me of something that I read where there's a company being sued right now. Yeah. Because the AI, as I understand it, the AI was giving advice
Speaker 2:to On how to commit suicide, and the child did. The minor did.
Speaker 1:Oh my god.
Speaker 2:Right. And the minor did.
Speaker 1:Brutal.
Speaker 2:Well and this is just so very real. All of these things, these tools here here's the truth. Those tools in and of themself are not bad tools. We use these tools in so many different wonderful ways. I mean, TV, entertainment, social media, and now AI.
Speaker 2:There's so many wonderful functions, and AI has been around a long time, but more mainstream AI. Wonderful functions, but there's a principle there we have to understand. We as people break good things. That's in our nature. It's on our soul's DNA.
Speaker 2:And so when we talk about all of these things, something so good can go so bad. I think the powerful thought for us as we have this conversation is truly grasping that behind all of these particular entities we're talking about are people, and people are flawed. Yeah. We're flawed. And so the information we give, the communication we deliver, the videos we create, the AI technology that pulls again from all of people and our research and our expertise across the ages, it's all coming from people who are not perfect.
Speaker 1:One of the things that that really talk about people who aren't perfect. One of the things that is really concerning me also is and I I wonder if anybody relates to this, where you had a once trusted voice. Have you noticed this? Like, there's talking heads
Speaker 2:I can think of some right now.
Speaker 1:On so of course
Speaker 2:you Yes. Whoo.
Speaker 1:On social media, once trusted voices. That in a season, particularly, if I could be so bold, coming out of COVID, some voices, you're like, okay, they're nailing it right now. Yeah. Okay? Their filter is actually really helpful coming out
Speaker 2:of COVID. Sanity.
Speaker 1:A voice of sanity or clarity.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Or or they asked the right questions, and their questions ended up being accurate. Or where the questions were leading, the answers ended up being more accurate than what we were being fed on the news. And so here it is, once reliable voices really veering in a direction that had nothing to do with the original voice.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And they're now headed into some territory that is opposite of what you believe.
Speaker 2:Or cuckoo for cocoa Yes. Truly. But if you're just consuming a voice and that voice, even the sound of it, even the packaging of the person became a trusted person in your life, but there's not a filter to examine what I consume, then we'll just float down the river of crazy and not realize we're headed to a destination that actually will impact us too at some level.
Speaker 1:I saw this years ago. Years ago, there was someone that I know that I won't get into names, but someone that I know that was a podcaster, or not a pod yeah. Podcaster, blogger. It was before social media was really a thing. Podcaster, blogger turned into an author, turned into a television personality, and at at first was a spokesperson for women in evangelical life.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And really appealed to women in churches. She's funny, she's cute, she's got all a take on things that's unique, and very, very winsome, and fun, And and just had it just made for the camera, made for communication. And yet, as the years go by, there's these little bitty flags that I begin to see. Little bitty flags.
Speaker 1:And to the point now where completely and totally deconstructed, completely and totally out of church, out of faith, out of conservative evangelical faith, out of biblical faith by I saw this also years ago in the early days of Keystone. We were evaluating content
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Or books that we would go through with our small groups. And there was an author, man, and this particular author, when he first began writing and speaking, it was so biblical, it was adding historicity to the Bible. And if you're familiar with this author, he would say, what it looks like to be covered in the dust of your rabbi. And you know, just all this, you feel so biblical.
Speaker 2:I remember. And he was cutting edge in his packaging. Yeah. Just absolutely captivating with his videography work mixed with the message.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And I remember. And then I I was reading one of his books, and I was excited to read it because I I like this dude, he's creative. And begin to talk about orthodox beliefs. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And say, hey, if you take away people build a wall of orthodoxy, and if you take away one of those bricks, the whole thing falls. And I'm like, okay, where are you going here with this? And he used the virgin birth as one of the bricks. And I'm like, I'm sorry, yeah, if you take away the virgin birth, you don't have a messiah.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so that that was a flag we pulled all of his stuff, no more using that, and soon you begin to see the the perpetuation toward
Speaker 2:It wasn't too many years later where you saw him walk away from the
Speaker 1:Walk away from the faith. And again, you see this pattern.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And as shepherds, we wanna be very we are very alert. We are eyes open. And so on social media, there is an algorithm, and some of the voices that have once been reliable are now not so reliable. Right. And I wanna talk about how we can break the algorithm.
Speaker 1:How do we know it's true? How do we know that someone's to be trusted? How do we how do we filter all that? And I came in prepared.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I came in with a way I've been thinking about this for a long time. Yes. I teased this on the weekend at Keystone that we're gonna do this. Yeah. And so I have I will go ahead and say what the topics are, then we'll hit them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The word of God, the ways of God, the presence of God, the people of God, and trusted heroes.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Okay? So there's a five there's a five part way that you can know what's true, who can I trust, who can I listen to, the word of God, the ways of God, the presence of God, the people of God, and the heroes? And so let's jump into those one by ones, Susan. Let's kick it off with, how do I know if this person is right or not? And we've already kind of alluded to this.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Some of those trusted voices that I talked about before social media, that we raised flags on, they were veering off away from the word of God.
Speaker 2:Yes. You know what something funny I did on the way to work today? I I don't think I really do this normally, but maybe I'm a start. Is I was listening I went to my Bible app while I was driving, and I pushed play, and it's because I wasn't gonna read it, obviously. I didn't wanna read the verse of the day because I was driving.
Speaker 1:What a responsible driver. Good job.
Speaker 2:Well, I thank you. You made a promise, so you can't ever either. So I pushed play on the audio, which his voice was kinda funny. I had to kinda deal with that. But I ended up listening to Proverbs 13, Proverbs 14, Proverbs 15.
Speaker 2:Yep. Just audio while I was driving. And it reminds me that that is our anchor. And we cannot know the counterfeit if we don't know what's true. We cannot know what is real if we don't recognize what's fake.
Speaker 2:And so the only way to recognize what is fake is to know the real. If I don't know the real, I won't recognize what's fake. I think I said it wrong a second ago. But the point is I've got to know what's true. Did I?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I got tongue tied. But I've got to know what's true so that I can know what's untrue. I have to know what's real so that I can know and recognize something that's fake, something that's counterfeit. The word of God is a gift from our almighty creator, and it's so practical.
Speaker 2:I was listening to Proverbs this morning. Incredibly practical. But if I don't have that in my soul, I will not know when the YouTube video is way off. I won't know when that as you said, former trusted talking head that, man, we were in sync. We were in alignment.
Speaker 2:And then that person, she's going this way or he's going that way. I won't know if I don't have guidance from the word of God. The bible in somewhere in Proverbs talks about how it's a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. Yeah. And there's another scripture that talks about how the eye is like a lamp to the soul.
Speaker 2:What is my eye looking at? And so I would just say we can't underscore enough the power of reading your bible, of listening to that daily verse of the day and then applying it to your life. Because then when the algorithms start, you're able to go, that was wrong. That's not of God. Wait a second.
Speaker 2:I was reading something this morning, and God said this, but that person's saying that. They don't go together. Yeah. It's that practical. It really us.
Speaker 1:It really is. Galatians one, the bible says, but even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Speaker 2:As
Speaker 1:we have said before, now I say again, if anyone's preaching you a gospel contrary to one you receive, let him be accursed. He repeats himself. Now what did he say? Me or even an angel comes from heaven and says something different than the word of God, they are to be cursed, are to be rejected.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, that's that's so scary. And so I'll give examples. You know, I think about scriptures where God is very, very, very clear on forgiveness, and he talks about how if you don't forgive others, I will not forgive you. That's the end of the Lord's prayer. As, you know, as you forgive others, I will forgive you.
Speaker 2:If you do not forgive others, I will not forgive you. Forgive unforgiveness is coming from the pit of hell, and it's infiltrating our souls because we're offended. Well, then you watch someone on social media, someone that has a platform, and they're seething with bitterness. Yeah. They're seething.
Speaker 2:They're promoting the cut off culture of protect your peace, protect yourself. And that's not that message of, you know what? We have a heart to work for peace because God says, again, the word of God, god says my children work for peace. And so if that person you're following is working to protect their own peace and bitterness is the rule of their mouth, then you can be assured this is not alignment.
Speaker 1:Not living in alignment with the scripture. No. That you and I both know of someone that's just eaten with bitterness. Yeah. And and and we saw a progression Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where the life began to just completely unravel. Oh. And it just breaks our heart Right. For this person.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But that person was not living in alignment with the word of God. Now all of us at some point are not in alignment with the word of Oh,
Speaker 2:yours truly.
Speaker 1:I mean, right here. Both of us. But that's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about, oh, I found an imperfection, or I found a stumble, or I found a a blind spot. We're talking about somebody that is clearly off.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:As Paul just said.
Speaker 2:There's a difference between fighting sin and living in sin. Yeah. There's a difference between we're in the we're in the fight. It's god it's we call it the good fight. You know, fight the good fight is what Paul said.
Speaker 2:We're in the fight.
Speaker 1:That's a great sermon series titled, the good fight.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That'd be good.
Speaker 1:Man, that'd good.
Speaker 2:Really good.
Speaker 1:Man, that'd be really good.
Speaker 2:Add that to the
Speaker 1:Add that to the list. I don't know if Eleanor can hear this.
Speaker 2:Someone Somebody Capture that. Down. But, yeah, the good fight. Because as a believer, we're all gonna fall short. We're all going to miss the mark.
Speaker 2:I mean, as Paul said, you know, I'm not gonna linger on my past mistakes. I'm pressing on. I've not yet arrived, but I'm pressing forward. And so we wanna be people who are fighting the good fight. But if you begin to follow a a, you know, an account or you begin to follow a person that is not fighting the fight, they're living in that sin, or they're living in that slander of others.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. They're living in that bitter place.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Clear fruit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They're living in that lust drip dripping, you know, conversation.
Speaker 1:Okay. You're hitting some topic. Okay. You're there there's people that I would identify as they are they have left the ability they are not trustworthy in matters of faith. That's the best way to say it.
Speaker 1:Someone that's not trustworthy to follow, that doesn't mean that they won't have good opinions. They still may have really good opinions on But some untrustworthy for all areas of life. Mhmm. One of them that I would think of would be someone that just oozes lust. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You know, like, just Mhmm. There's just a lust.
Speaker 2:There's a vibe.
Speaker 1:There's a lust vibe. Another topic that you just said is a slander vibe.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:A slander vibe.
Speaker 2:And Wait. Can we speak to slander vibe?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Go for it.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah. I mean, slander by definition is gossiping about someone else information that is not true.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Gossip has many different cousins and many forms.
Speaker 1:Well, they may say it's true.
Speaker 2:Well but there's no evidence. Yeah. There's zero evidence. There's speculation. And at the end of the day, it's you know, people can say something with extreme confidence and it'd be extremely untrue.
Speaker 1:And there's no cross examination. There's whenever there's a platform for cross examination, they wither. Yes. They tend to wither.
Speaker 2:Yes. And so that that platform of slander built on clicks, built on, you know, just stirring something here's the thing. You and I, please know this about yourself. I I we need to know this about ourself. Apart from Christ's work in us, we are primed and ready for offense.
Speaker 2:We are ready for it. And so when we and we also it's not even just when I'm offended, but secondhand offense is just as deadly. We will pick up someone else's offense, and we will take it on as our own. And Satan's so happy because he is he is accomplishing his goal by multiplying his impact. And he is just hitting each one of our hearts and allowing that bitter root to sink in.
Speaker 2:And we just think we're scrolling. Yeah. We think is is we're scrolling.
Speaker 1:So the bible acclimates and begins to build your filter. Yeah. Just a thought, a couple of thoughts on the Bible. Adults who read the Bible four times, four or more times a week are fifty seven percent less likely to struggle with feeling lonely, thirty percent less likely to struggle with financial generosity, and significantly more resistant to biblical compromise according to this statistic.
Speaker 2:That one more time because you listening as he reads this statistic, a very interesting study, this is very quantitative data. I mean, this this is you can feel this in
Speaker 1:your mind. American Bible Society State of the Bible 2022.
Speaker 2:Okay. And read what it said again.
Speaker 1:Fifty if you read it four or more times a week, 57% less likely to struggle with loneliness. 30% less likely to struggle with financial generosity. Okay? So you're more generous
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you read the Bible. And then significant, they don't give a number here, but significantly more resistant to biblical compromise. So reading your bible
Speaker 2:Makes life better.
Speaker 1:It acclimates you. Yeah. It totally makes makes life better, but only it says eleven percent of American adults read the bible daily. Wow. And so we have the answer, we're just not doing it.
Speaker 1:Wow. Couple of scriptures on the bible. The power of the bible, Hebrews four, the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and look at this, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Yikes.
Speaker 1:So you gotta be a Bible person. And then this is I I gotta add one more. Acts 17. The people of Berea, Paul said, were more or no. Acts this is Luke speaking.
Speaker 1:The people of Berea were more open minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul's message. Okay? They searched the scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.
Speaker 2:Oh, come on.
Speaker 1:As a result
Speaker 2:Must be those people.
Speaker 1:Many Jews believed as did the prominent Greek women and and men.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Come on. That's it. Read your bible. It doesn't mean you're a bible scholar.
Speaker 2:Just pick it up. That's what's so crazy. Just me today pushing play on the bible app and listening to proverbs, it's like it was just washing over me, things that were just so helpful. Yep. And it just helps you be sharp for what you're gonna encounter that day.
Speaker 2:I wanna go back to that verse you said, the word of God is alive and active. Because when we're watching social media, sometimes people go live. Like, you're seeing them in real time saying whatever that is they're saying. Or more often, you're watching the video that they produced or the clips that they produced, and you feel like you're doing something in real time. The word of god is so far beyond alive and active.
Speaker 2:It's act you're not just reading or consuming something. It is changing you. Yeah. It is transforming you. But I would also venture to say that the counterfeit of God is also changing you for the worse.
Speaker 2:That when we run into the counterfeit messages and we embrace those things, the bitterness example for, you know, that I gave earlier, things inside of us, it's partnering with the sin nature inside of us, and it's sin makes us more sick.
Speaker 1:I'll give you one example, then we'll go to the next way to fight off the algorithm. Crush the algorithm and know what's true and know who to follow, who to listen to, how to listen. But one example is on the issue of Israel. Okay? I've seen there's an incredible rise, and I believe it's being fed by the algorithm of an anti Israel bent, at least at greatest, it's an anti Semitic bent.
Speaker 1:The Jews are the result of the problem. The Jews are polluting our our our society, for example, obsessed with how much the American government is giving to Israel, but don't care at all what's what's happening with Qatar or some of the other Muslim
Speaker 2:countries that happened.
Speaker 1:Or the other countries that are investing into our Mhmm. Into our politics. Or, yeah, Ukraine. How much are we spending on on this war against Iran with Israel? And we're crickets when it came to to the Ukraine, as you put it.
Speaker 1:These are there's such a dissidence. There's such a difference here.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And look, some people are very, very consistent on what we spend on on foreign wars and all that. And that's not to say you don't have criticism for the government.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Okay? I have criticism for our government, not not the least of which a foreign government. But you can't read the bible. Again, I'm that's where I'm going. And not love Israel.
Speaker 1:And not love the Jewish people. And not understand that Jesus was born a Jew, and that means something.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I could go on and on. So what
Speaker 2:have got There's there's a and correct me if I'm wrong. Particularly, there is an algorithm that's really hitting our young men.
Speaker 1:It
Speaker 2:is. And which I just think in the scheme of things, this is what's this is where my brain goes. You know, I believe I believe the bible that if it Ephesians six, this isn't a battle of flesh and blood. And so even as I said earlier that people are behind algorithms and behind videos and behind things, the bible would say that's actually not the first, the ultimate root. There is a source greater.
Speaker 2:And it Ephesians six says that our enemy, the devil, and the dark world that we live in, and the enemy spirits, the evil spirits that are part of that realm that is just as real as the air we're breathing. That that is where, as as God says, the father of lies, Satan himself, the originator of the lie, it's his native tongue, breathes falsehoods, breathes untruths. And we also learn that he strategizes. So there's strategies. And so what am I trying to say?
Speaker 2:That all of these different tools that can be great and can be used for great things, we as people break things. We we break good things because of our sin, and our enemy will look for any and every way to exploit us, exploit and partner with our sin, and lie to us. And to think that the enemy and the prince of this world right now, which is Satan, would not take advantage of this mechanism of social media if just left unfiltered. We're not even checking it.
Speaker 1:So good.
Speaker 2:To think he would not use that to cause harm would be so naive.
Speaker 1:So that's the perfect segue, and yet I'm compelled to say one more thing. Yes. Say it. That was the perfect segue. But on the Israel thing, do wanna say, I believe if you read the bible Yeah.
Speaker 1:You will fall in love with the people of God and the place of Yeah. And the place of Israel. The people of Israel and the place of Israel. And I just, I don't know how you read the bible and not fall in love with the history of your of your people, and not not to mention just all the things I said. So it is.
Speaker 1:There is a strategy against us on all these things. That's just one issue.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But in all these things. Okay. So that's the word of God. What about the ways of God? The ways of God could also be described as principles, know, precepts.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Okay? And the way I would describe this is there are things that you need to figure out that are not clearly spoken of in scripture. Okay? Am I to vote republican or democrat?
Speaker 1:Those two words are not in the bible. But there are principles that would lead you to embrace one party over another. Mhmm. Am I to be pro life or, you know, abortion as it is modern, you know, the let's give it this one. Is the abortion pill okay?
Speaker 1:Well, don't have the abortion pill in the bible. There's no such thing as an abortion pill. Yet there's principles and clear teaching in scripture that says abortion is wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, God says I knit you together in your mother's womb. I'm the creator. So we don't kill what God creates. God created us. We are made in his divine image.
Speaker 1:Pro life is a principle. It's a And so it's bundles of scriptures that come together to talk about the ways of God. Mhmm. And then it's also patterns in scripture. That we say you have a series of scripture that clearly speak to your issue of what to do, but then also patterns.
Speaker 1:There's It's not explicitly there's a pattern in scripture where I see things happening in scripture that if I were to do what I'm if I were to do a certain behavior, I'm against the pattern of scripture.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 1:let's talk about the ways of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Example comes to my mind as soon as you say that. I'm immediately going back to kind of an earlier point, but tying it to the ways of God. And this is where I just would love to Google Bible verses that pop in my head and know their address. But listener, you can do that.
Speaker 2:They were you can Google this one. But there's a verse that talks about if you do not take care of your parents as they're aging, if you don't take care of the older person in your household, that you are worse than an unbeliever. That's really a big that's a big verse.
Speaker 1:I'm looking it up.
Speaker 2:Thank you. You know, if you don't take care of your aging parent, you're worse than an unbeliever. Did I get it right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. First Timothy five eight.
Speaker 2:When did you read it?
Speaker 1:Oh. I put it away. Okay. Hang on. Wow.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I mean, you did good. You nailed it. Okay. First Timothy five eight says come on. Says I find it in translation alike.
Speaker 1:Okay. But if anyone does not provide for his relatives and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Speaker 2:Good night. So what does that mean? Does it say your relatives that that are awesome? Does it say your your mom that you never get frustrated with? Does it say your dad who didn't hurt you?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And, you know, yet we live in, again, in a culture right now so dominant in cutting off those who have hurt us and living estranged from people that God says, I have put you on this earth, and I assigned you relatives. It's very interesting. Friendship is a different relationship. And, again, I'm an advocate for friendship, and I think too many people bolt. Too many people run when things get hard.
Speaker 2:I'm a proponent of fighting for your friendships. But relatives, that is a decision that God made, Who my mom is, who my dad is, who my children are, who my siblings are. And, again, there are situations and settings, particularly physical harm, you know, sexual abuse. There are there are certain types of threats relationally that you have to navigate very carefully and at times put in in, you know, very specific boundaries in place. But just this spirit and the heart that says, what you did was so terrible.
Speaker 2:You hurt me so bad. I'm out. I will never speak to you again. I just believe if we go to the bible, there's a different message. Rather than saying, I'm out.
Speaker 2:I cut you off. I wanna ask the question, given everything that's transpired between us, how can I fulfill that verse? Yeah. How can I care for you?
Speaker 1:It's not unfettered access. It's not a green light at all times. No. But how can I love you? How can I fulfill the scripture?
Speaker 2:Yes. Just the top. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that that's an example of of a that's one scripture, but there's a cluster of scriptures that we see where where it creates this expectation in the bible, you're gonna take care of your family. Yeah. Right? Right.
Speaker 1:So that's an example. Let's get I wanna go hard in the paint here. You didn't know I was gonna do this. Let's go. It's 2020.
Speaker 2:K.
Speaker 1:BLM.
Speaker 2:Oof.
Speaker 1:And it's hitting the church hard, and it I'm talking the very first where it was Black Lives Matter. And you hear that phrase, and everybody's like, well of course, yeah, I'm up for that. Yeah. Sign me up. I believe black lives matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, yeah, sure. But we began to quickly, and God gave us pretty quick discernment, and I'm thankful for that. Mhmm. That we began to sense a spirit behind that phrase Yes.
Speaker 1:That was not it did not align with the surface phrase.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And we began to discern that there was some anti biblical teaching, and anti biblical truths, anti biblical elements that were under that phrase, that if you just say, yeah, black lives matter, you're signing on to a deconstruction of the faith ultimately. Yeah. You're you're signing on to all kinds. It's a loaded Trojan horse phrase.
Speaker 2:Right. And I have to give props to you and to my mom because in that season, my heart, as I began to see this issue pop in our nation that was already I mean, our whole world was already in a the weirdest place, very unsettled, very unstable with COVID and all that was going on with that. And then this BLM movement began to happen, my heart was, I love all people. And if this group of people I mean, they if they don't know, if there's a issue in our culture, yes, black lives matter. I was I was all in on that statement.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But you and my mom, I remember her pausing and just holy spirit discernment that we need to dig deeper of what we're partnering with. And we learned. We all learned. There was an organization Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there were leaders underneath that movement of Black Lives Matter. I mean, was called Black Lives Matter. And there was a lot of trouble that later was discovered. I mean, that the people and the organization itself, there was
Speaker 1:And we real really believed it was a it was a it was, it fight, here's the biblical principle there, the point is. It was a movement that was built to fight discrimination with discrimination.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 1:that's DEI, that's all that, it's fighting discrimination with discrimination. That's not God's way. No. That's not God's way. No.
Speaker 1:And you can lift up the the the God's way would be lifting the dignity of everyone. Yes. You do not lift the dignity of one person at the expense of another person.
Speaker 2:He says love your neighbor, And not some
Speaker 1:so the biblical answer is, yes, black lives matter because I love my neighbor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, white lives matter. Yes, Asian lives matter. And you're not you're not and but the at the time, we have to go back, you know, many years to go back and remember all this, but at the time, if you put any other name on it, you were committing an atrocity. Yes. And the point is, no, we are to love all of our neighbors.
Speaker 1:Yes. And and that is not a zero sum game. You live you love someone who has a black life Mhmm. With 100%, like you would love someone with a white life 100%. You don't fight.
Speaker 1:But that's the biblical principle.
Speaker 2:Well, and just to to finish that topic, I remember case study of one particular young woman, a beautiful girl, who got swept away in that ideology. And, again, she had had an abusive past. She had had a very hard life, and she was in a very vulnerable state as a young woman. And she got swept up in that movement, and her heart was already primed for offense. And so to be able to, with in her mind, partner with a broad group of people to to to grab onto that offense that that created, that movement created, this spirit of offense, it just captivated her further, and you just saw her life spiral as she became more and more bitter.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It wasn't producing. You know, God said, you'll know them by their fruit. Yeah. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control.
Speaker 2:The fruit in her on her tree was the opposite. Yeah. And you saw torment in her life.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you see it even politically. Those that would advance this and even maybe uncomfortable hearing this part of our podcast right now, do you celebrate a strong conservative black man getting elected to office like you would someone on the left? And the answer is almost a 100% no. The answer is no because they don't believe what and it so that it's not a race thing.
Speaker 1:It's an ideology thing. Wow. Another another one would be how our relationship to government. We've gotta get a cluster of scriptures together to figure out how to relate to government. You go to Deuteronomy chapter 17, and it talks about the rules for a king.
Speaker 1:You go to Romans chapter 13, and you see Paul talking about how to relate to a Roman government. Deuteronomy's talking about a king. Paul is talking about an emperor and an empire and Caesar, and he And you have these wildly different govern And what you see is patterns and principles emerge
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That we are to be a people who embrace order, not anarchy. Mhmm. Okay? So antifa is not the way. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Tearing down order and society is not the way. Mhmm. Breaking the law is not the way. But a limited government because God is our ultimate leader.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah. And you think of just the the phrase from our founding fathers and just you'll hear I'll hear people who even claim to be Christians throw this around, almost, again, offended, but it's the separation of church and state. We understand that when that was created, it was to keep the government out of faith. Yes. Don't touch our churches.
Speaker 2:Don't touch our faith. It was not to keep faith out of the government. And even if it had been, which it was not, even if it had been, what do we as Christians believe? I'll see these people who say that they're Christians get so offended when they see the 10 commandments being brought back to a school or that they see the government or or people in the in politics talking about Christianity, there's like an offense of, wait a second, that's you're you're breaching that gap of separation of church and state. Show me in the bible where God says, keep me out of government.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Show me You see Daniel. You see Esther. You see pattern after pattern after pattern of people engaging their culture.
Speaker 2:Yes. And you see kings of Israel, which is that that's a government, and you would see God talk about how when those kings veered away from him and picked up foreign gods and foreign ideology, and God condemned him for it. It wasn't it wasn't his heart. And so just having, again
Speaker 1:That's pattern.
Speaker 2:The filter.
Speaker 1:That's the the ways of God. You pick up on a pattern. Yeah. You pick it and you say, okay. Here here's what and and how do I know who to vote for?
Speaker 1:You know, whether that's at the deeply local level or national politics president. Yeah. Senator, congressman, or even down to school board. Well, yeah. You know, how do I do that?
Speaker 1:Well, you've gotta get clusters of scripture together, and you've gotta make a decision.
Speaker 2:And sometimes we have two imperfect choices, but we may have one who's following a false god or a false religion or no religion, and we may have another claiming Christian claiming the Christian faith. And some people will get so bogged down that I'll hear comments such as, you know, I just think they're exploiting Christianity. I think they're just using it for their political advantage. And, we don't have a lot of options. We have a select few options, and it's not my job to judge their heart.
Speaker 2:And do I agree with everything? Sometimes you're picking between two imperfect choices. But the person who is who is claiming Christ, I'm gonna go with that nine times out of 10, assuming that they're
Speaker 1:reporting biblical ways That part. Biblical principles and patterns. Yes. Even if it's for political expediency Yes. Again, when both are neither following Jesus
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Or both or neither or neither of the options are aligned perfectly, you've gotta make a call.
Speaker 2:You have to make call.
Speaker 1:And that's based on the ways of God.
Speaker 2:And the apostle Paul even had that situation where there was someone preaching the gospel who he believed did not believe in Jesus. Yeah. But he said, you know what? It's being put out there. The good news is being preached
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so let it be preached.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Another one for me, though, is well, let's get this down to this point. The point is, in my algorithm. Yeah. Okay?
Speaker 1:And all that applies to the algorithm, you know? But in the algorithm, the voices that I'm listening to, the posts that I'm getting Yeah. Are they standing against the ways of God? Right. Are they violating clear patterns?
Speaker 1:Like you said, I I love the slander. Then you need you need to understand, okay, this this voice is not to be trusted. They're clearly moving in a direction that is away from the Lord. First John four says, beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone into the world. Philippians four verse eight, the bible says, what finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there's any excellence, if there's anything worthy of praise, think on these things.
Speaker 1:What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the god of peace will be with you. So does your algorithm breed peace, or outrage, rage, a sleepless nights? You know, is your life generally more miserable? You're probably not in the right algorithm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it could even not be so severe. It could be just you're on social media too
Speaker 1:much. Yeah.
Speaker 2:At some point, even good things
Speaker 1:If you're on social media more hours than you sleep, you probably have a problem.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're not at a good place. Anything that's, you know, we can take good things and use them the wrong way.
Speaker 1:How does, okay, next category. How does the presence, how does the presence of God help us discern what is true? How do I know from the presence of God if my algorithm is accurate?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would say quickly. I can't understand the word of God. I can't rightly follow the ways of God without the presence of God. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's the first. I've gotta have that intimate relationship with him that I am pursuing. And and he's pursuing me all the time, but I am pursuing him, and I'm connecting with him. And when his presence, when I am in his presence because apart from him, I can do nothing. John 15.
Speaker 2:Nothing. When I'm in his presence, he's going to lead us. He's going to bring those scriptures to mind. He's gonna prick our spirit. We're gonna feel, even a holy spirit conviction at times.
Speaker 2:Hey. Put your phone down. Hey. That loop's not for you. Hey.
Speaker 2:I'm exposing an algorithm that you're on right now. Let's change that up. Mhmm. He's going to reveal those things to us. And it makes me think of AI, and that's a whole another conversation at some point, but it's all related.
Speaker 2:You know, we're living in a world where we go to AI with our questions. I mean, it's happening more and more. Now AI talks back to you like a person. Yeah. And I gotta say, I am really thankful that I can send my outfit ideas to AI, and they will tell me those shoes are terrible because I need help.
Speaker 2:But what happens when, and it's already happening, when we're going to AI with questions that we should be asking God about? Mhmm. That I'm going to AI and I'm saying, hey, this is what's happening with my boyfriend. Should I break up with him? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you kidding me? Yeah. We need to go to almighty God. Yeah. And we need to go to God's people.
Speaker 1:So the people of God. So the presence of God also produces the fruit of God, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, and on and on, and the humility of God. And and if your life is not characterized by those things, how about also the people of God? Let's hit this quick because we're almost out of time. But let me just do my version of people of God, and then you do your version.
Speaker 1:And I'm gonna combine people of God and heroes. And that is whatever you're following online, those people don't know who you are. Those people are not living with you, they walk by you on the street and not even recognize you. But there's small group leaders, and there's, when you were in student ministry, mentors, and crew leaders, and people that really impacted your life, and they are trustworthy voices. There's wise counsel in a church, godly men, godly women.
Speaker 1:And if all those godly voices are totally opposite of what this algorithm is spitting at you, you need to pause. And then let me throw out the heroes.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:The bible in Hebrews 13 says, have confidence in your leaders, submit to their authority. This is scripture. Submit to their authority because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. I live with the weight as a leader, spiritual leader, that I'm responsible, and I'm accountable before the Lord for people. But we need to also understand, if you have a great church, and you love your leader, that person feels the weight of
Speaker 2:that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, man, that should mean something if you're pastor, or if you're one of the pastors or a spiritual leader in your life is on a totally different page than your algorithm, then you need to pause. Yeah. At least slow down. At least take some time.
Speaker 2:That's so good. I would sum it up with, don't replace the real relationships in your life with the voices from an algorithm.
Speaker 1:So good. So good. Wow. Here we go. This was a big one on The Overflow, and we cannot wait to see you next time.
Speaker 1:Join us. Tell everybody. Click, share, subscribe, do it all, and we'll see you next time on The Overflow.