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Jason Staats—accounting firm owner, content creator, automation expert and online community champion—joins the latest Accounting Leaders Podcast episode. Jason shares his journey in accounting, the power of surrounding yourself with like-minded people, automation and no code development, and why vendors need to make more data accessible.
Join Stuart McLeod as he interviews the world's top accounting leaders to understand their story, how they operate, their goals, mission, and top advice to help you run your accounting firm.
Stuart: 00:00:05.898 [music] I'm Stuart McLeod, CEO and cofounder of Karbon. Welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast, the show where I go behind the scenes with the world's top accounting leaders. Today, I'm joined by Jason Staats, CPA and NBA and partner at Brenner & Company, an Oregon-based full-service accounting firm. One of a kind accountant, Jason is a prolific digital and social content creator. He runs Realize, an online community for accounting firm owners. He owns a YouTube channel and co-hosts Automation Town, a podcast about regular people building no-code automation for the problems we all share. It's my pleasure to welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast, Jason Staats. Jason Staats, welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast. How are you?
Jason: 00:00:57.571 I'm good. Thanks for having me.
Stuart: 00:00:59.816 Thanks for being on. You've got big shoes to fill your friend, colleague, and co-host. Chad Davis and I go way back, and he's been on the podcast a couple of times. Probably driving through the middle of nowhere in his RV at the moment, right?
Jason: 00:01:15.224 Probably, yeah. [laughter] Or pumping the RV out or something that you and I don't want to be doing.
Stuart: 00:01:23.005 We're not a camping family, right? I don't think I've told him this one. We're not a camping-- but we live in a pretty outdoorsy space in the top of North Lake Tahoe. So a lot of our friends are a little bit more outdoorsy than we are. I mean, I love skiing and being out on the lake and do all that. But it doesn't translate into being on the road for four years. Anyway, we thought we'd join the other side, right? We'd go to the dark side. And friends of ours rented a caravan, and we rented this 40-foot proper fucking bus, right? My then eight-year-old got to be known as the rolling turd. All these RVs are brown, right? [laughter] So whenever we pass one, she calls it the rolling turd. Anyway, so what happened was-- have you ever driven one of these fucking things? They are enormous. I can drive a Land Rover Discovery or something, but I'd never driven a 40-foot bus. And so the orientation, right, for this thing, this guys' 250-grand bus, he turns up. He pulls this thing into our street into a suburban street and gives me that. It takes like five hours to do the orientation. He's got things that fucking move in and out and all up and down and hydraulics that make this thing go from 10-foot wide to 30-foot wide. It's got like nine systems. It's like engineers just came and spewed up in it and put their toilets and everything and the hydraulics and water and their gray water and their heating and their cooling and their lighting and everything. Anyway, we got through the first day. We drove like 200 miles, 300 miles. It was absolutely no problems. I thought, "Fuck, how easy is this?" Didn't hit a thing. Didn't knock over anything. And first 30 seconds of day two, [laughter] I took a corner to sharply. And I put a rock through the whole toiletry and water systems--
Jason: 00:03:27.925 Oh, wow.
Stuart: 00:03:29.955 --and bent the chassis. And I ended up riding the whole thing off for the guy. He was lucky because that's what he wanted, but.
Jason: 00:03:38.942 Yeah, did you get your deposit back on that one?
Stuart: 00:03:41.295 No, no. [laughter] I owned a ruined toiletry system in a fucking RV. So anyway, in our family, all of these are now referred to as rolling turds. And that's about as camping as we get in this family. Are you much more proficient?
Jason: 00:03:59.462 No, I like being near the outdoors. I like the adjacency, but I'm still fundamentally an indoors man. I've got a whole bunch of young kids, and it's just maybe another season of life, but not today.
Stuart: 00:04:12.259 Yeah, well, I think we're aligned there. Chad can have his life on the road. And I'll happily sleep in my very stable bed without having to roll out to turn the hydraulics in and out every day. And how old are your kids then? Living in Oregon, this is a deliberate decision to raise out kids that aren't on the iPad 100% of the time.
Jason: 00:04:34.267 Yeah, we've got three that are five and under. So there's a bit of iPad co-parenting. Hopefully, not too much. But that many kids that young, that's the whole thing.
Stuart: 00:04:45.871 Three under five here. Well done, you built a demo pretty quickly.
Jason: 00:04:49.050 Not according to plan. The first one was-- [laughter] the first one was the only one we actually planned on. We probably would have stopped there, but they kept coming. So we're doing something wrong. [laughter]
Stuart: 00:04:59.602 Just skip that list, did you? [laughter] But that's good, though. They'll grow up hating each other until they're 18, and then they'll love each other for decades to come, right?
Jason: 00:05:10.148 As soon as they leave the house, yeah.
Stuart: 00:05:11.373 Yeah. They'll keep themselves amused. Hopefully, you won't have to do all the work forever, right?
Jason: 00:05:16.607 We've got that working for us. Yeah, they're best buds. And they can play together. And I had enough of a gap with my siblings where we couldn't do that. So it's good.
Stuart: 00:05:25.089 Yeah, we went with 12, 10, 4. And so the 12-year-old is charging exorbitant rates to babysit the 4-year-old. She's got the American capitalism working for her. Now, you're a partner at Brenner & Company. Tell me how you came to accounting, what your journey was leading up to your first job. Start at the start, eh?
Jason: 00:05:48.654 Well, I got three years into a computer science degree and then backed out of that at the last minute. And the shortest path to an undergrad was accounting. That was as much thought as went into it. I got an internship that paid better than my buddies with an accounting firm and haven't figured out how to get out yet.
Stuart: 00:06:06.529 It's working on X. So what happened to the computer science? Were you just not good at COBOL or C++?
Jason: 00:06:15.931 In retrospect, it was-- in the moment, you don't know how much your peers and your professors influence you into thinking what you're capable and not capable of doing. But I had a couple of rough classes. It's really the first time in my academic career that I really struggled with something.
Stuart: 00:06:32.690 What was that?
Jason: 00:06:32.795 Oh, what was it? I think it was client server systems. I think I got my first D of my life. Anyways, that's a whole thing. But ended up going away from that. The big four, big regional hustle never appealed to me. So I went to work for a small firm, left that to go to a different one, and then bought the firm I was at and then eventually bought that second firm that I moved into. And I own it now with a partner.
Stuart: 00:07:00.012 And hang on. You don't get to get away with it that quickly. There's some irony around failing client service. I think maybe you had some-- [laughter] you had some foresight into the cloud industry, right? You didn't need client server architecture or whatever it was. And you professor was sailing you up a shit river. [laughter]
Jason: 00:07:19.097 Yeah, no. I guess I had that about that in retrospect. If you need anyone to build a badminton ladder system with Apache and - what else? - PHP, yeah, something that's kind of gone by the wayside since then.
Stuart: 00:07:34.408 There you go. Install on-prem expert. That's why maybe. And so flipped out of there, thought, "Fuck, I've wasted three years. I've got to get this thing over and done with pretty quickly." And so accounting was the fastest path to a job.
Jason: 00:07:52.032 Yeah, business was-- that was an easy side step, but I had enough credit to where I could do 2 degrees in four years. And so the accounting was kind of the tack-on. And I was never that person that grew up with a real clear vision of, "Here's exactly what I want to be." So I ended up kind of just being what I fell into, and here we are.
Stuart: 00:08:13.565 And so your intern job is-- where was this? In Oregon?
Jason: 00:08:18.020 Yep. Sailor Morgan.
Stuart: 00:08:18.780 Grew up there and joined a local firm.
Jason: 00:08:21.524 Yeah, local firm. I think there were six staff when I joined. Small shop just doing SMB stuff. And that's kind of where my love of the real small business and that sort of thing started.
Stuart: 00:08:34.053 Well, let's talk about that, the love of small business. Do you remember your first client?
Jason: 00:08:37.497 See, I was 19 at the time. So there's a bit of a buffer there before they actually show the client who's doing their work when you're at that stage. But man, one of my first projects was this company that hadn't filed tax returns in about five years, and it was just-- the big eye-opener there was you realize, with small businesses, 80% of tax work is actually accounting work and just the fact that until you're of the size where you can afford a controller or a CFO, it means that person's mom or themselves or their spouse are doing the bookkeeping. And that's just kind of part of the small-business experience.
Stuart: 00:09:15.322 And you were doing this catch-up work, which reinventing history is not that easy, right?
Jason: 00:09:22.509 Not if you want it to be accurate now. [laughter]
Stuart: 00:09:25.630 And it's close enough at that point. And as you worked your way up at that firm, what was sort of the changing dynamics? What sort of clients did they have? And you mentioned the love of small business. What perpetuated this? What's there for us to really chew on?
Jason: 00:09:42.433 Yeah, it was one of those small firms that does anything and everything, whatever they could get to walk in the door. And honestly, that was really fascinating to me early days. I think if I had come into this firm that was mega niche from day one, I would have been exposed to less. But just the ingenuity and kind of entrepreneurship in general. And I think it's easy to lose perspective of what a privilege it is to have access to the relationships that we have, the type of people that are going out and spinning up their own businesses with that kind of entrepreneurial spirit. There's not that many of those people. But you build a business like this, and you're able to surround yourself with those people every day, which is a really unique opportunity. So I think I just found I enjoyed those people. I think they were like-minded, and I could relate with them more so than people you bump into in your personal life who aren't the entrepreneurship-type.
Stuart: 00:10:37.492 All right. And so as you're sort of growing up in the accounting world, you're getting wide variety of experience with various small businesses. Do you start sort of developing your career accordingly and thinking about what's next and how to perhaps shape where you end up? Or are you still doing that? [laughter]
Jason: 00:11:00.930 Oh, I think you're always doing that to a degree. Going to the next for my was at, which was a little larger-- still not large by kind of the grand scheme of things, but it's team of about 30. And I learned through that firm that, actually, what I really enjoyed was more the internal aspects of running the firm. So yeah, developing those systems, kind of how you position the firm from a strategy standpoint, how you get a consistent lead in flow and specialize, and how team members slot into all of that. I learned that was the part of it that I enjoyed the most.
Stuart: 00:11:37.874 Yeah. And so operational, I can relate to that. Operational efficiency and effectiveness is a thing for you. Producing great results time and time again is not that easy, right?
Jason: 00:11:48.907 No, not in what we do. It's so much of it that has to be bespoke to each engagement. It's balancing act, trying to create a [inaudible] process for that as possible not only for the work that you're doing but also for how you develop your people and how to get everybody up to the same level and all that.
Stuart: 00:12:06.108 How has your love sort of translated into your own firm? These days, how do you look at the operations of your firm and the people aspect of it?
Jason: 00:12:14.483 Well, I think everybody knows it's a challenge to get the right people plugged in every industry. But I think it comes back to, "Are you doing something compelling that people can get excited about?" And if you're running a run-of-the-mill firm that just does what people expect, I don't know that that's very lucrative way to attract people to your flavor of accounting. So now it's really doing compelling things within a firm not only because it's a better way to help our clients and build a more profitable practice but also because it's kind of your way of putting a stamp on the industry that other people will notice and then engage with and then come work with you in one way or another.
Stuart: 00:12:54.097 So what you're saying there is, if you can develop purpose for your firm and deliver greatness for your clients and work with customers, clients that people enjoy working with, you will attract great people to your firm.
Jason: 00:13:10.816 It's just like attracting clients. Why would a client choose you over someone else, another firm? I think you can look at hiring the same way. What makes you a compelling place to work, and how are you going to enable those people better than the other firm across the street?
Stuart: 00:13:26.256 And what's the purpose that you've developed at Brenner & Company? How do you view what you deliver to the world?
Jason: 00:13:33.660 Most of what I talk about outwardly is around automation and then around community building. So finding the other firms that are doing similar things to you and coming together and everybody getting better together. So the folks we attract are the folks who are leaning into tech to a certain degree but also just our fundamentally bought into, "How do you build a higher-leveraged version of an accounting firm that's not exclusively built around one-on-one services and is leaning a little more into one-to-many services, service lines that are more suited to be automated and how you mesh that with the problems that a specific client demographic has?"
Stuart: 00:14:16.093 Okay, well, let's dig into automation. What's the tech stack look like at Brenner & Company? And how do you think about the ongoing development of your tech stack?
Jason: 00:14:25.586 Yeah, so many accounting and tax problems are data problems, either the quality of the data or not having access to the data. In the US here, tax firms, especially, have been reliant upon a lot of legacy systems that don't give you access to the data you need to be able to integrate things and do stuff on automated basis. So from where I came into the firm maybe 10 years ago, the main push has been to get the entire stack onto cloud native, SaaS platforms, where you've got access to your data. So there's still a lot of tools in our industry that even SaaS tools who don't have an API or won't give you access to your own data. And yeah, I think people feel this pain most when they switch systems, and they realize, "All of that data we had in the old system, it's not going to come over. We don't have access to that." So building your firm on a stack of systems where you've got access to your own data, you have the ability to integrate that stuff yourself, and there's never a risk of you somehow losing that kind of record of what you've done because it's fundamentally your data.
Stuart: 00:15:33.108 What's the tech stack look like today?
Jason: 00:15:35.433 Like what specific apps we're using?
Stuart: 00:15:37.395 Yeah, yeah.
Jason: 00:15:38.579 We got Canopy for our practice management system. You want to talk about that?
Stuart: 00:15:42.073 Go for it.
Jason: 00:15:43.245 So run practice management on Canopy. We've historically been a zero-first firm. So in our cast practice, we've got about 80 clients on zero, but we've got about 800 tax clients that just bring what they bring. So that's a split of QuickBooks online, some proprietary stuff, a little bit of QuickBooks desktop. So on the tax side, it's a little bit of everything. But yeah, we're looking for the systems that will let us stage client requests and our practice management system so that it's following up with people automatically so that's not a human function reaching out and just asking for things. I think that's a big waste of human effort. And then what are the systems that all talk to each other. I mean, it's shocking in our industry. Something as trivial as onboarding a client or a client being able to change their street address and that update across all of your systems from your tax software and their personal tax return and their business tax return and the K-1s that are associated with them on business tax returns, you practice management system, your proposal software. The notion of a client being able to log into a system and change and address and an update in all of your systems as an accounting firm right now, that's a groundbreaking thing, and that's actually a huge technical challenge. It absolutely shouldn't be. But what are the steps we can take each day to make all those systems work a little better together?
Stuart: 00:17:07.962 And how do you do it today?
Jason: 00:17:10.339 A whole lot of duct tape. So we're running proposals through ignition, our company accounting files, and QBO. So honestly, the reality is, anytime those changes happen, you have to have a-- in my mind, you have to have a main core source of truth and then trigger the other updates on that source of truth. So somebody changes a client address in Canopy that kicks off Zapier scenario or a make scenario that then updates all the other systems that are cloud-enabled or do have an API. But then, in the end, we still have a digest of, "Hey, here are those three other places that we can't update automatically." And that goes to an admin, and they have to hop in and make those changes. So honestly, it's still a real hodgepodge.
Stuart: 00:17:55.282 You would think it should be easier. So you mentioned Zapier and Integromat or Make. You run a podcast called Automation Town that this low-code/no-code automation. What are the benefits for a start? And then we'll get into some of the other aspects of it.
Jason: 00:18:14.974 Right or wrong, I think the accounting system is the backbone of a small business. For most of those companies, it's their first CRM. It's kind of that there's usually more data there than there is anywhere else. And with small businesses, you have that stuff and a whole bunch of different systems. But when it comes to kind of orchestrating where all that data goes and being able to automate that, I really don't think there's anybody better positioned to be able to make that stuff happen than accountants because everything from invoicing, how bills get paid, how you onboard employees, all that stuff runs through the systems that we oversee. So you're kind of in the driver's seat to kind of be the ultimate operator and how all that stuff happens. So automation use cases are always very business-specific. There's a lot of business-specific logic that goes into those things. But things as simple as person owns six related companies, and you get an IT bill, and you have to split it across six company files. You can either go up market to a accounting system that will cost tens of thousands of dollars to support all those business entities.
Stuart: 00:19:18.106 [crosstalk], billing, yeah.
Jason: 00:19:19.662 Yeah. Or what we do is we've got Zaps. We've got Make scenarios where, say, you get that email invoice from the IT company every month. You got an email rule that routes it somewhere else. The amount, the date, all that stuff gets parsed out of the email, and then it automatically posts it to as many accounting files as you need to and sends out invoices if one company has to pay another and all that. So it's a big unlock. Obviously, I'm a big proponent of it. I think it's a step change and productivity for not just accountants but for knowledge workers in general. They're kind of becoming these quasi developers. But yeah, when it comes to small business, I mean, accountants are in the best place to really lean into that stuff.
Stuart: 00:20:04.922 Yeah. And so what you're saying is that gives your knowledge of operations and systems is giving your clients a better advantage that they can-- or perhaps just reduce the manual labor that goes on in their organization, and you can help them become a bit more effective, be more efficient. Is that fair?
Jason: 00:20:23.609 Yeah, because everybody's bottlenecked on hiring right now. People have never been-- people have never been more ready to spend on automation because they know the cost of not having the right person or not being able to get a job done.
Stuart: 00:20:37.104 Yeah. I mean, whole industries have come up. [laughter] And then geographies have come up in the world with that same theory, and. But like the Indias and the Philippines and everything, and the Chinas are getting more expensive labor-wise as well. So the value chain changes over time. What about the complexity of the no-code scenarios though, right? One thing does one thing. And then, all of a sudden, there's a whole lot of stuff that's going on that you got no idea how it actually occurred. Has that happened?
Jason: 00:21:12.239 Oh, for sure. It doesn't require code. But at the end of the day, it still development. And there's good and bad ways to do development documentation. And what does that look like for yourself versus what does it look like in a team environment? And that's not something that an accountant who just started stumbling through some of this stuff is just going to know. That being said, you got to start somewhere. The best and the worst thing about this is nobody identifies as that automation expert. You're an accountant. You don't do that stuff. But the person that's best positioned to do that stuff is the one that has a really deep understanding of the problems that need solving. So that's you. So the best people to adopt it are the ones with that really deep understanding, but nobody identifies as the type of person that's going to carve out half a day to learn this new thing and do it themselves. So you get people who take to it naturally who just really enjoy it and would be poking around in that stuff anyway. But for the rest of people, they're impressed, and they want to know what's possible. But they still don't identify as the sort of person that would take it up and do it themselves. So they end up kind of stuck between in this position of dugout and hire somebody to do this, who doesn't quite understand it. And I think that's kind of the state of things right now.
Stuart: 00:22:30.009 Yeah, it can be a bit of a halfway house, which neither absolutely nailed nor just starting. A lot of businesses have that same issue, right, with the rise of no-code. I mean, Zapier was by far the earliest and sort of the first and a great success story too. I mean, they were remote before remote was even a thing. They were unfunded before being unfunded was even a thing. And the rise of Tray and Integromat and now iPaaS as a whole-- platform-as-a-service is a whole thing. People are able to build integrations without doing point-to-point code and all this kind of stuff, right? So the automation and low-code/no-code world is only growing. That's for sure. But I think the challenge is how to manage it, how to bring it about in your world in a way that makes sense in a way that you can control in a way that you can get most of the benefit without it causing a chaos. [laughter]
Jason: 00:23:33.755 And it can become a real tangled web. It can absolutely become a mess. It's something that, for me, I've learned just through doing it wrong a bunch of times and seeing what works with the team and what doesn't work with the team. But at the end of the day, you're still automating something that would otherwise have to be done manually by a human. Where I think a lot of people get tripped up is still having to fiddle with this and that. And what if I got to hop in there every few months and still tinker with this and that? The reality is that can happen. We've got unstable sources for data and stuff like that. Things aren't coming through as you'd expect. That stuff happens. But I think the future of work is more living in concert with the kind of tools that you create because it's still fundamentally higher-leverage than not taking the time or ever investing the time and building that stuff and just kind of succumbing to doing that stuff manually until the end of time. But there's so much nuance there. There's stuff that's suited for it that works really well. There's stuff that isn't as suited for it. So yeah, it's a whole kind of new dimension to working, I think.
Stuart: 00:24:41.085 And you run Realize also. It's related, which is an online account and community for tech progressive accountants. Tell us about that.
Jason: 00:24:50.389 Yeah, so as a firm runner, I always learned the most simply by sitting in a room with other firm owners that have firms similar to myself. So the most energizing, most helpful conversations I've ever had have been with people who run firms like mine. And I think online communities are the best of the internet. You've got mass communities like Twitter and stuff like that, which have their upsides and downsides. But now with online communities, I've never collaborated with another accounting firm in my town, but I've met hundreds of people online who run firms just like mine that I've learned from. So the kind of impetus for that community and how it started was just to have a private space to meet other people doing similar things to yourself. And that's it. And the rest kind of takes care of itself. So we matchmake mastermind groups of four or five firm runners that run similar firms. But it's not really a education community as much as it is just a space to give permission to pull in collaborative people who are open to sharing their live client setups and how they do renewals and how they do all these different things. And that's always been, for me, the most impactful way to learn.
Stuart: 00:26:11.106 And one of the things that you've got most of from this community, is there an accounting firm or somebody that you've worked with that has just come a long way that really resonates with your journey and your story?
Jason: 00:26:25.981 I'd say it's more the cumulative contribution that everyone's made, even firms that you may think on the traditional spectrum of the maturity of a firm. If there's a firm that's kind of a laggard on some things, you have something to learn from just about everyone. So there's so many dimensions to running a firm and managing people and managing clients and how you engage clients and all that. It's more the building that into your routine. So you're talking with those people every single week and seeing the cumulative change it has on you over 6 to 12 months in terms of the small things you pick up here and there that work and don't work and then how you kind of homogenize all that into something that makes sense for you. It's just such a fast way to develop to have confidence in what you do because if you're running that firm in a vacuum, I mean, you don't know. There is nothing to anchor yourself too. You don't know what's the norm. And in my case, I think a lot of people will make big decisions that feel right at the time, but one or two years down the line, they realize wasn't the right decision. And then they have to go back and they're kind of doing this circular thing where they're not quite getting to where they want to go. And so for me, the ability to be able to validate those decisions with 10 other people who have done it before me, I mean, that's just invaluable.
Stuart: 00:27:51.653 With all your work that you're doing, including the podcast and Realize, you've been nominated this year for the 2022 Innovative Practitioner of the Year Award by cpa.com. That must feel like a little bit of recognition for all the hard work that you put into the community.
Jason: 00:28:07.348 Yeah, no, it's super flattering. I am totally transparent in the ways that I run my firm, and it's really just to encourage other people to do the same. I mean, we're so far from market saturation and the amount of people out there that do what we do. And we all do the same things that there's so much more to gain by going out and sharing your playbook and talking about what you do and getting better collectively. The firm that's protective about their processes and how they do all of that stuff, there's kind of an underlying implication there that they somehow know how to do that stuff better than everyone else. And so unless you're at the top of the mountain on everything, which doesn't seem realistic to me, I think you've got more to gain by talking about it, just putting that stuff out there and picking up stuff from other people too.
Stuart: 00:28:56.906 And I'm sure that you attract like-minded accountants that have the same beliefs that transparency is more productive for the greater good, right? Everybody benefits all the titles or boats, that kind of shit.
Jason: 00:29:11.516 Yeah, that's the whole premise. And I think COVID opened my eyes when all these firms were going through a new COVID relief bill drops and tens of thousands of firms stop what they're doing to read the exact same thing and try to get the exact same insights. If you make an analogy to software development, you look at open-source software. How much of software development is based on stuff that everyone leverages that's well-understood kind of foundational stuff. And in many ways, there's no element of that in professional services. Everybody's doing all the same things on their own. And wouldn't it be so much better if the only aspect you were really managing was that last 10% of your firm that you wanted to be bespoke for breweries or something that was very you-specific. So if we're all doing the same things, that's just inherently very wasteful, I think.
Stuart: 00:30:08.613 There you go, an open-source accounting firm. Let's do it. [laughter] It should only take 20 minutes to whack it out! We got millions of pages of documents all ready to go. We got Accounting in a Box. Oh, we can do that. Yeah. No stress. The key to the benefit of open-source, of course, is the contributory nature. Everybody has to contribute and has to be responsible for their committees, responsible for their aspects of work. So there you go. There's a good project to work on. I'm sure Chad would be into that.
Jason: 00:30:46.660 Yeah. I've thought for a long time. We ought to have kind of an open bookkeeping standard where, I mean, as soon as you standardize a course out of chart of accounts, I mean, there's so many things like that where if you put a little more structure around it, it eliminates a huge amount of work. So I'm 100% behind. What are the common things that we can simplify so that we can actually do the stuff that matters?
Stuart: 00:31:12.655 Yeah, no, I get it. All right. We'll leave our conversation on a very open note. How's that? [laughter] Jason Staats from Brenner & Company, this has been awesome. Thank you for your input. And if there's anything that we can ever do to help and obviously any competitive insight you want to give, go for it anytime. We'd love to be able to help.
Jason: 00:31:35.765 Yeah. Appreciate you having me.
Stuart: 00:31:36.877 Thanks, Jason. [music] Thanks for listening to this episode. If you found this discussion interesting, fun, you'll find lots more to help you run a successful accounting firm in Karbon magazine. There are more than 1,000 free resources there including guides, articles, templates, webinars, and more. Just head to karbonhq.com/resources. I'd also love it if you could leave us a 5-star review, wherever you listen to this podcast. Let us know you like this session. We'll be able to keep bringing you more gas for you to learn from and get inspired by. Thanks for joining, and see you on the next episode of the Accounting Leaders Podcast.