Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag

Join us for an engaging conversation with Jeremiah Markway of Markway Ranch as he shares his journey in regenerative agriculture and grazing management. We explore his experiences with various livestock, including Corriente cows and hair sheep, and his transition from conventional farming to sustainable, low-input practices. Jeremiah discusses the importance of simplicity and profitability in operations, the challenges of integrating different animal species, and the value of rotational grazing, a practice introduced to him by his father. His background in agronomy and passion for forage production are also highlighted, showcasing how a diversified approach contributes to a resilient and productive ranching operation.

In another segment, we explore the implementation of electric fences on cattle farms, including the initial challenges and how trial and error, along with expert guidance, led to success. Jeremiah shares his experience of balancing outside jobs while continuously improving grazing and ranching methods, emphasizing adaptability and lifelong learning. We also delve into the selection and management of Corriente cows, their suitability for team roping, and their exceptional fertility and longevity, providing valuable insights into incorporating Corriente genetics into a cattle operation.

Further, we discuss strategic timing of calving for Corriente heifers, the challenges of wintering cattle, and the benefits of incorporating sheep into the grazing system. Jeremiah explains the advantages of using a leader-follower grazing system, maximizing pasture utilization and meeting the nutritional needs of both species. We also cover the flexibility of custom grazing operations, the use of poly braid fencing, and the integration of different livestock to manage pasture quality. Jeremiah offers valuable advice for newcomers to farming, emphasizing simplicity, observance, and continuous learning, all while sharing personal anecdotes and favorite resources.

Links Mentioned in the Episode:
Markway Ranch

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What is Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag?

The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.

This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?

Welcome to the grazing
grass podcast, episode 125.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: first is
keep it, keep things simple as possible

because if you get things too complicated,
it's not going to be sustainable.

Cal: you're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories

of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage.

You're growing more than grass.

You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle

thrive in their environment.

You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity

and reducing your operating costs.

You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.

The grazing management
decisions you make today.

impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.

That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials

of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow

techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.

In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.

Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,

but a legacy that lasts.

Learn more on their website at noble.

org slash grazing.

It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.

On today's show.

We have Jeremia Markway of Markway.

Ranch.

On the show, we talked about
his story with Corriente cows.

Raising Corriente calves
and raising crossbred calves

out of those Corriente cows.

We talked about hair sheep going back to
the Hopping brothers here in Oklahoma.

And we talked about custom grazing
with just a little bit about

grazing horses thrown in there.

It's a great episode.

For the bonus segment for grazing
grass insiders, we talk about.

Jeremia's transition
from off the farm job to.

On the farm job.

Before we talked to Jeremia
10 seconds about my farm.

And a little bit later in today's
conversation, we talk about sometimes.

When you're on this regenerative
journey, you can't be a purist.

Because there are some tools out there
that maybe are not always the best

or what you want to do in the end.

But you have to use them to get there.

And as I've mentioned on the past few
episodes, I've been mowing a few pastures

that have sericea lespedeza that's gotten
out of hand because of poor management.

So I'm using that tool to try
and get those pastures in a

better condition going forward.

As much as I don't like it, sometimes
we have to use those tools that are

available to us to get to where we want.

For 10 seconds about the podcast.

First, let's read a review.

Oh, yes.

Low input, profitable grass farming ideas.

This podcast is a great
addition to your weekly listens.

If you're raising animals with
grasses, your center piece.

The host does a great
job asking questions.

And focuses on profit bill.

Let me try that again.

On profitable grass-based production
for many classes of livestock.

Thank you.

Perkins town bow hunter for the review.

And as we mentioned before, if you
haven't let us left us a review, please

do it's really beneficial for us.

And we greatly appreciate
five star reviews.

And positive comments.

Thank you.

And let's go ahead and move
on and talk to Jeremia.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Jeremia, we
welcome you to the Grazing Grass podcast.

We're excited you're here today.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Thanks Cal.

I appreciate you having me
and uh, looking forward to it.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Wonderful.

To get started, Jeremia, can you tell
us about yourself and your operation?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah so my
family and I ranch in central Missouri.

We are pretty much strictly
a grazing operation.

We've done all kinds of things over
the years from registered beef cows to

commercial beef cows to grazing stockers.

Currently our enterprise mix is
made up of hair sheep and Corriente

cows that we breed to beef bulls.

We still do custom grazing of some
other people's cows, beef cows.

And then we also raise some
quarter horses too, just a few.

And we've done that for years.

So, we focus on being, low input and
regenerative and all those things.

and mostly try to keep it
as simple as possible and

profitable is the main thing, so.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Right, yes.

I agree with that.

Simple.

I'm not the brightest out And
profitable, so I can do this tomorrow.

So yeah.

So you've got a few things going there,
but you also mentioned you've done a ton

of other things getting to this point.

Often what I ask on the grazing
grass is what got you interested

into regenerative practices?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Okay.

My grandpa was a farmer and had
done a little bit of everything too.

He was pretty diversified.

He milked cows had beef cows, they
had raised hogs, turkeys, Laying hens.

I mean you name it.

They did everything whatever it took
to survive and be and because of that

I think I just got really interested in
all avenues of agriculture Sometimes to

my detriment because it can be a deal
where I like to chase go down different

rabbit holes, but Dad got interested
for some reason and I don't really know

why But back in rotational grazing back
when I was like 10 years old And he

started putting in all kinds of electric
fences on the places back before it was,

cool to be doing that sort of thing.

And for some reason that just
really struck a chord with me.

I loved moving the cows around.

I loved seeing how the grass responded.

And so I just really chased that
and took it to another level, as

far as making a living with it.

I got a degree in agronomy from
the University of Missouri.

And most people that were going
into that sort of thing, they were

doing it because they were wanting
to be going to crop production.

But I was one of the few that I was just
interested in grass and forage production.

So, with the intent of grazing livestock.

So, that's where my journey started.

And I've done a few other
things along the way.

I worked as an adult ag teacher for,
gosh, 12 years or something like that.

Worked for the Missouri Department of
Natural Resources for a couple years.

And I managed two research farms
at Lincoln University in Jefferson

City for about eight years.

All that while I was also ranching on
the side, but back in 2020 I left that.

And went full time ranching,
and so it's been a good deal.

Been blessed.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Just a
little bit on Lincoln University.

Lincoln University is the
reason I have hair sheep.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Really?

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: I went
up to a small ruminants conference

there that Greg Judy was coming to.

And I want to say that was 2011.

Right through there sometime.

And I've told this on the podcast
before, or I believe I have, I was

the only person there out of all the
producers that only had meat goats.

Everyone else either had hair
sheep or hair sheep and meat goats

Everyone there said you've
got to get hair sheep.

It's going to surprise you.

You've got to get hair sheep So I came
home spent a year convincing my dad Hey,

let's try this and then maybe two years
because it was 2015 before we found

a flock to buy And we'd actually been
looking for a big enough flock for a

couple years to buy it, so it took me a
couple years to convince dad that, hey,

we ought to try this, and a couple years
to buy a big enough flock, because I

would find on Craigslist and stuff, 5, 3
ewes, and I wanted 30 to 50, and finding

them was a little bit tough at the time.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
Oh, that's interesting.

That's interesting.

Also your story about getting them
and what you went through with that.

Also, I'm similar and similar situation.

I got them in 2011, the fall of 2011.

And I'd been debating on getting them
for four or five years before that,

because I had some friends that had them
and I'd love to go out there and watch

their sheep and they just intrigued me
just like the grazing did, and finally,

one day I just, I talked to my dad
about it and brother in law and stuff.

We ranched together and there
was some hesitancy in all

of us, but Finally one day.

I'm just like I'm just gonna do it and
I was fortunate enough that a friend

directed me to some people down in
your country I think or close closer

that way anyhow Joe and Hoss Hopping.

Good friends of mine down there around
Tulsa And anyhow, I got the, got our start

from them and have kept their sheep going.

And it's, it's been the only
thing I wish I would have done

is I'd have done it sooner.

So they've been good.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914:
I agree on the hair sheep.

I'd like, I wish I would
have done it sooner.

I had goats for a number
of years ahead of that.

And.

And I love goats.

I love their personality, but
they're just a little bit more work.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: And I ended up
selling all my goats and then, I guess

a year ago I bought another handful
because I didn't have enough headaches.

So I thought, get some more goats.

So,

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: We've
talked about getting them, but

I haven't made that plunge yet.

So, we've had, we had them when I was
younger growing up and yeah, you're right

there that for us at least they were a
little bit more of a challenge at the time

so one of these days we'll get them again,

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: oh yeah.

Let's jump back.

You said you, your dad started putting up
electric fences when you were about 10,

I know when I was exposed to the
grassman stock or the stockman grass

farmer, and I want to say it was the
late 80s when I was first exposed to it.

I looked around.

I couldn't find anyone doing anything with
electric fences and we started doing some.

But we had all kinds of problems, and
later on, we didn't ground the system

good we were buying too small of
energizers, and a whole host of issues.

Did those electric fences work good?

Y'all have them in place?

And didn't that just kinda establish
that this is the way you're doing cattle?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah, I
mean That's how we got started to the

I remember getting the Stockman grass
farmer and sitting there reading it from

cover to cover over lunchtime, you know
when I was younger like that and There

wasn't a whole lot of knowledge around
You either at that time around our area,

but we did have a good NRCS I guess she
would have been a district conservationist

that helped us out a little bit there.

And then the guy that we bought some
supplies from originally was about an

hour north of us and he gave us some good
tips, as far as installing it and whatnot.

So, but a lot of it was trial and error
too, you're the guinea pig and when

you're on the edge like that, doing
that first and around the neighborhood

and there's lots of people make fun of
you and wonder about your sanity and

that sort of thing, but I don't know.

Yeah, they still do.

Yeah, it, that just
never really bothered us.

Obviously, we have sheep and corianny
cows, so we're not too worried

about what people think about

us.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914:
yeah, right, right, yeah.

Well, I just think that's a interesting
exposure from way back for you.

When you went through college and then
did you come back to the home farm

while you did some outside jobs too?

Or were you away from the
farm completely for a while?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
No I've lived all around here.

Close to the home farm pretty much
my whole life, and just, like I

said, just did that on the side.

That's all I've ever wanted
to do and do it full time.

And probably, honestly, I could have done
it sooner, but there's that uncertainty

that comes with leaving a job, you get
a regular paycheck and stuff like that.

And so, I've always been involved
with it and have never really left.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: So, after
you go to college, come home, did

you all make any drastic changes,
or were you just reinforced with,

hey, we're doing what we should be
doing, and you continued with that?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: No, I think
that story of my life, Cal, when it

comes to grazing and ranching and stuff
is that I'm always trying something

different and trying to make it better.

And so what we think is right.

One year we may find out, a few years
down the road that we need to make some

adjustments or whatever, that what we were
doing is not working as well as this other

method or this other way of doing things.

So it's been a constant adjustment
and still is to this day.

I feel like if I ever get to the
point where I'm not changing things

and questioning what I'm doing,
then I'm probably getting stale.

And, I just, I like to learn
and keep trying to push it to

just to be better at everything.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yeah.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
it's a constant process.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: You
mentioned a while ago, Corriente Cows.

I'm sure your dad wasn't running
Corriente Cows, and you had What

brought you to Corriente Cows?

What got them on your radar?

and cause you to introduce
them into your operation.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: yeah, we
used to, like I said, run commercial

cows and then we got into the registered
Angus deal and they were good cows,

but We ended up selling those.

I can't even remember when now off the top
of my head, but we've always team roped

dad's dad was his main love was horses and
He's actually retiring here in two weeks.

He's been a veterinarian for 53
years and He had horses his whole

life and that sort of thing.

So, so we team roped and we just
kept some of those heifers one year.

I don't remember why, but
we bred those heifers, those

Coriente heifers that we had.

And we got to figuring out
that they made really good mama

cows, they last a long time.

Their udders are good.

Their fertility is incredible.

And yeah.

So we started dabbling with that I think
like 25 years ago or something like that.

Yeah.

And for us it just seems like they fit
so well in our operation that we've never

really wanted to go back to beef cows.

But they've been good to us.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Are you
typically using solid colored ones?

Are you using some paints?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: We,
our herd now is pretty much solid

black, red, and some browns.

When we started out we
started with everything.

And we had some old friends of
ours that roped that had Corrientes

forever and they said well you'll
never breed the spots off of them,

but that turned out not to be true.

We kept breeding the solid colored bulls
and and we, by selecting the heifers,

that were solid then we were able to it's
rare that we have a painted up calf now.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

And with the Corrientes I
started buying a few Corrientes.

Been running on my, I don't
know, three years now.

But I've just bought a few
and most of mine are because

they're cheaper than solids.

I figure I will breed it off of
them, but I also love the genetics

behind the color of them So
that's just a side quest for me.

But one thing I've got to ask you about
that I buy some of these open Corriente

heifers and I don't know their age
because I'm not from a roping background

I'm not from a rodeo background I'm
just I see them out there and I see

and I'm part of some groups and I know
fresh ones are, have never been roped

is my understanding, then if they've
started, they've been roped a little bit,

Roped out is they're not
good for roping anymore.

How old a heifer is that at that point?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: It can
depend on how hard they're used.

Some of these heifers, if they're taken
to jackpots and stuff, and they're

really roped hard and abused, they will
they can get roped out pretty fast.

So that could even be.

the same summer that
they started roping them.

Now, other people that might buy them
and take care of them, they might not get

roped out until they're like two years
old at the end of their two year old year.

So, typically we start roping
ours when they're a year old

and we'll still rope them pretty
much till they're two year olds.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, okay.

Do you breed them, do you
wait to breed them till after

you're finished roping them?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah,
most of the time, sometimes we'll

run a Corriente bull in there
with them when they're yearlings.

And some years they'll have a good breed
up on those heifers, some years not.

But if you do get them bred, you just
need to take a little bit of care of

them because they're still growing
quite a bit, and trying to raise a calf.

So what our program is we breed
those heifers to Corriente bulls.

The first two years, first two times
we breed them and that way we're able

to keep generating Corriente heifers
for our herd, for our replacement.

And then their third breeding season
on, they will be bred to beef bulls

at that point and then we'll, yeah,
and so those steers will sell in

the, in regular livestock auctions,
but the heifers, those half blood

heifers, there's a really good demand.

For them, for mama cows, for
people, so, they, we usually

sell those right off the place.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh yeah, so
your first calf on those Corriente

heifers could be as early as two and
two and a half, but it's probably going

to be closer to three years old on

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
Right, yeah, most time

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: We
just found that it's a little

bit easier that way on them, so,
since we're roping them and stuff.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914:
I've found with the few

I've purchased, it seems like I have
better luck getting them bred when

they're just a little bit older.

I've got a set with a bull
right now that I thought might

breed last year in Colorado.

Keb but they just wouldn't breed for me.

And I thought they were close to size,
and you know I knew they were on the

small end, but thinking they'll breed
now without a problem, but it just makes

me think, for those Corrientes we're
probably looking at a three year old to

calve them out just at their growth rate.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah, and
the nice thing about them too is like

I'm thinking of one half blood cow we
have out there we have a few half blood

cows that we do keep but I think she's
19 and had a this spring and She's had

a calf every year since she was two
and we've got several Corriente cows

that are 15 to 18 years old so they
just last forever, but They can anyhow.

I mean

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Right.

It's, yeah.

With your Corrientes, you're breeding them
the first two years to a Corriente bull.

I'm assuming you're producing more
steers or bulls than you would rope.

Do you, is there a good
market for roping calves?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah it
follows the beef market, as far as their

value, but yeah, we sell all of the bull
calves or steer calves to other ropers.

And we've never had any trouble
ever getting rid of them.

They don't bring as much as what these
beef calves are bringing right now,

but it's, it's still relative to it.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Right, because
you've got a lower cost cow in there.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Right,
and their end result, when they get

done roping those Corriente steers,
when they get roped out, there's no

place else to go with them other than
the feedlot, and a lot of people don't

like to feed those type of cattle, so.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: With the steers
and you're raising them for roping, is

there any kind of special management
you do so that their horns develop good?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Not really.

We just make sure they have good
nutrition just like anything we do

with our sheep or other cattle or
anything, just try to take care of them.

And we don't pamper them or anything
like that, but we just make sure

that they have what they need to keep
growing and then age takes care of it.

We usually calve those
corrientes around in April.

So, you know the guys that are buying
them want to buy those calves as prospects

or ready to rope in March basically they
don't want to overwinter them But then

when spring starts rolling around they
start thinking about roping and stuff

and they want to get your cattle lined up
So that's the only reason we don't calve

those cows a little bit later because
if you wait and calve them in May and

June They're not ready to rope till May
or June that following year and a lot

of people they're wanting to rope before
then so you miss your market a little bit

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah
I assume it's like everything.

Spring gets here, everyone gets
overeager, be outside doing something.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
Right, that's exactly right

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

With your bull calves on your Corrientes
at what age are you castrating them?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: It depends
Usually if we cut them, they'll be oh

in December or January or something like
that but sometimes we don't even cut them

and we just sell them as bulls to the
guys they can cut them if they want to

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: I've heard
people say you need to leave them intact

for horn growth for longer than what you
normally would for a regular beef calf.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: yeah,

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: So you
do a couple years of breeding

them Corriente bulls and then
you go with a beef bull on them.

What's your preferred
cross with your beef bulls?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Well,
we've used, gosh, pretty much everything

you can think of under the sun.

In most situations I would normally say
a we've got along the best with Charlay

bulls because when we had those painted
up cattle, they would the diluter gene

and stuff would clean them up, and
make a light set of calves to sell.

They would match pretty much.

We had some really good luck
with a black limousine bull.

as far as putting muscling on.

But we've been using Angus bulls some
thick type bulls, Angus type bulls

the last few years, mostly because
of that replacement female market.

And if you put the right Angus bull
on there, it's really muscled up.

You get some really nice bull calves too.

So that's where we're
at with it right now.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

And then, you're selling a
lot of those for replacements.

Are you also keeping those, keeping a
certain percentage in your own herd?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: No, the half
bloods, it's pretty rare that we keep one.

It's

just, we might keep one around to
show somebody, this is what they

turn into or something like that.

But now we just for simplicity's sake,
we usually just keep the Corrientes

straight as far as the mama cows and
let somebody else buy the half bloods.

And then they can put beef bulls on them.

And those three quarter blood calves
are pretty pretty nice calves.

They're pretty, they sell
pretty good right up there

with a lot of the other cattle.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914:
I completely concur.

I've got a couple of half blood Corriente
cows, and their calves, which are going

to be three quarter, whatever beef breed
it is you can't tell them from my straight

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah,

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: calves

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
they make nice.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: a match set.

Yeah.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: cow in the
country ought to have a pinch of Corriente

as far as cleaning their udders up and
fertility and the heat tolerance that

they add to it, but I know a lot of people
would debate me on that, so that's okay.

That's just my opinion.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: So
with those Corrientes, we're

working with smaller cattle.

We just purchased some Angus cows,
found a deal we liked on them

sent them through our scales.

The biggest cow topped out at 1, 600
pounds, which is a slight problem because

we're trying to, on dad's place, and
these cows are on dad's place we're

trying to run about 1, 100 pound cow.

And my herd's much smaller
because I'm running a lot more

Corrientes than South Polls, so.

How big are those half
blood cows coming out?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Those half
bloods are, they typically mature at

900 to 1, 000 pounds, maybe 1, 050.

But they're not that much
bigger than our cories.

Our cories weigh around 800
pounds, when they're mature.

So 8, maybe 850.

Depends on when you
weigh them, but anyhow.

Yeah, the half bloods, they're about
100 200 pounds heavier than that.

That's about

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yeah.

Okay, now I've got a really tough question
that causes all kinds of controversy,

controversy on Facebook groups.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh boy.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yes.

So, this is a tough one.

So, I hope you're ready.

So, someone will post a picture of
some heifers or calves for sale,

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: heifers for sale.

And then the comments blow
up that they're longhorns.

They're not Corriente
or they're crossbreds.

How do you tell them apart?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: You can't
always, but I mean, in general I would say

that just the longhorns have a little bit
more horn to them, a little longer horn,

a little faster growing horn, and the
longhorn breed in general has just been, I

don't want to say tampered with, but it's
been You know, messed with a little bit

more as far as people breeding for color
or horns or configuration and length.

And so, the longhorn cross cattle
or longhorns tend to be a little bit

framier than our corriente cattle.

So, there's no guarantee though.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: and I agree
with both of those things you said

that's what I'm looking for when I'm
seeing something and the arguments

ensuing How long's that horn?

I bought some horned heifers
Well, just a small trailer load of

them, and they all had long horns.

They're all longhorn cross in
there because their horns are so

much longer than what I typically
see with a Corriente heifer.

And and then I was talking to someone
the other day, and I said the longhorns

can be a little framier than a Corriente.

They just got a little
bit more size there.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

And that's why typically they rope.

Correntes more than longhorns, I mean
they some people will say that well

They do that because the correntes
are smarter than the longhorns.

Some people say no they do They
the longhorns don't make as

good a ropers because they're
smarter than the correntes.

I whatever I don't know about any
of that, but you know, whatever but

anyhow

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: in some
of those facebook groups, Longhorns

versus Corrientes, that's a hot topic.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah, those
Facebook groups, and I'm a member of

many different ones, but I, I don't know.

Every time I seem to post something on
there, I regret doing it because it ends

up like going off a different direction
or people getting in an argument.

So I'm like, I don't
think I need to do that.

Yeah.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: as a plug,
but not really try and plug it.

That's one thing.

So, we've got a group called the
Grazing Grass Community on there.

And that's one thing I'm trying to keep
from happening because it seems like every

discussion in any group I'm part of ends
up into some disagreement about something

that's not the point of the post.

So right now, I think the grazing
grass community is doing a great

job staying away from that.

But, the more people you get into it,
the more likely it's going to happen.

But, yeah, I totally get that.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: a and to
be honest, I read a lot of those.

So it, it does attract my attention,
but I don't want that in a

discussion where I post, where
I want some quality information.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Right.

I understand.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Now, let's just
talk before we get back to your sheep

just a little bit more on your cattle.

Let's talk about your
management of your cattle.

You mentioned earlier the Corriente
heifers or first heifers are calving and.

April and it sounded like maybe
you're your older cows are

calving a little bit later.

Did I

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
There's still April and May

pretty much.

Yeah so part of that, Cal, is that
on those half blood calves, we really

like to sell those half blood steers
in that time frame the following

spring, early, not early, spring,
winter time, I guess you'd say.

in the spring, whenever those guys are
really looking for grass cattle and

hitting grass, catching grass fever,
and you've got a, they're looking

for a little 450 to 550 pound calf.

And those calves work pretty well
for marketing at that timeframe.

And so that's why we calve
them there when we do.

And with our grass, I mean, it, It
could be better to go more May and

June, but with our fescue, predominantly
fescue base and stuff, it still works

pretty good to calve that time of year.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yeah.

Yeah

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: We've tried
calving them in the fall and stuff, and I

don't know, it just, it doesn't work very
well for us, it doesn't seem like, so.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: You're not too
far north of me, but you're a little

bit north of me and then east of me
and Anytime, you know winters is gonna

be a little worse for you than it is

Go even south It's even better for them

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: right, right.

And that's one of the things we found
about the Corientes is they don't

put on back fat like a beef cow does,
like an Angus or something, and so,

we found that you need to have them in
pretty good shape going into winter,

especially if you're going to carry
a calf on them through wintertime.

Because if you go into winter with them
being in less than optimal condition,

they can, and you get into a patch
of really bad weather, cold weather,

extended period, they can they can
really drop condition pretty fast, so.

That's pretty important.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: in my limited
experience, I've seen them really

get pulled down with a calf on them.

And to be honest, I'm trying
to poor boy them through winter

To keep those costs as low as possible.

But, yeah.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Let's go ahead
and go ahead and move back to sheep.

So with your sheep, you got those in 2011.

Why did you decide to get sheep?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: I just
saw that as much as I like grazing

and like I said, my friends that had
them that I'd go look at their sheep.

I, and they told me.

how good they were as far as making
money and how they just fit the grass

cycle, I guess you'd say, so much, with
our cool season forage base and stuff.

It I don't know, it's just, I just
wanted to try it out and I thought

they would be a really good fit for us.

So that's what we did and it's,
like I said, it's been great.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: What's what
was the thing that surprised you

most about them once you had sheep?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: I think
it's just how much They're just,

to me, the perfect grazing animal.

I mean, that you got an animal that we
lamb around May, starting around May 1st,

and then that you will have babies on her
for 90 days or something, maybe longer

if you leave them on, but you have a
dry animal then for fall and winter that

you can You know, you're not going to
abuse her anything, but her nutritional

requirements are so much lower this,
whereas a cow, she's nursing a calf for

most of the year and trying to breed back.

And you're breeding a cow when she's
nursing a calf and you're breeding

a ewe whenever she's dry, so it
doesn't have that lactation demand.

And so to me, they're just,
they just fit so well with

grazing managed grazing system.

I think they're great.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: When you wean
those lambs when are you marketing them as

soon as you wean them or and I'm assuming
you're weaning in about three months

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: We, we
have been weaning at about three months

for about as long as I can remember.

This year we might do something
a little bit differently due to

circumstances, but but anyhow, no.

Typically we wean those lambs and
put them on a different place and

we'll graze them through the fall.

And then we will sell them in December or
January when that market's a lot better.

Now that's on our market lambs our
replacement ewe lambs that we sell.

We do typically sell those at 90
days off the farm and, to whoever

wants those, we typically keep a list

and people that want those ewe lambs.

And then we'll also keep some rams back
for ourselves to breed and also to sell

some breeding ram lambs that we use
in, or that they can use that fall.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yeah.

Yeah, sounds good.

Do you run your sheep with your cattle?

Oh, yeah.

Oh,

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
With them, but not with them.

So we do a more of a leader
follower type deal with our sheep.

Our sheep are, well, the way we
figure it, for us is that the

sheep are the higher value animal.

And so we we lead with the
sheep and we'll be in a paddock.

We do daily moves.

We'll be in a paddock for a day
and they get to graze whatever they

want, as far as the, what grass
they want, the forbs, clover and

broadleaves and stuff like that.

And then I'll come in with generally
with custom grazing fall calving dry

cows that we get from different people.

And I will clean up that pasture with
them since they have a lower nutrient

requirement, you know at that time
that we have them And it works really

well Conditions the grass for the
sheep the next time around it's meeting

the cows need needs and One year when
we first got started with the sheep.

I think it was maybe two years into
it or whatever I thought well, we're

just gonna go all sheep on this place
where I live and We got rid of the

cows off of the system that year And
I ended up with wormy sheep and waist

high rank fescue by the end of 90 days.

And so I knew that wasn't going to work
and we put cattle back in the system.

So I feel like the cattle are a
vital part of the sheep operation.

It's just that I don't want to
own that many cows year round.

So we can get into that
a little bit more later.

But that's one of the sweet things I
think about the custom grazing deal.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Will,
we'll come back to that when we

transition to our overgrazing section.

With your ram lambs,

you're keeping your own rams,

You're also selling a few off.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Mm hmm.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: them
while they're younger, or are you

selling your market lambs as rams?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: We
sell our market lambs as rams also.

So we just wean everything and then
it's completely gone to a different farm

where I don't have to worry about that.

Now that's what we've done, like I
said, what we've been doing in the past.

This year we're probably going to
do something a little bit different.

We've been grazing cover crops for the
last three years in the wintertime.

And I've found some more farmers
to work with that are willing

to let us graze our cover crops.

And I think what we're going to do
this year is we are going to ban those

ram lambs that we don't want to keep
as breeders and keep those on the use

and take them to cover crops as well.

So, it's just that rye and
stuff is such good feed.

They'll do so well on it that.

We think that's going to work
out again, sometimes we're right.

Sometimes we're wrong when
we try these new things.

But the winter grazing of
the ewes has been working out

real well on the cover crops.

And so if we can graze those lambs
right along with them, we think it'll

be a lot nicer to manage one bunch,
up there than have a bunch of lambs

here and a bunch of ewes up there.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yeah,
and then you're not worrying about

ram lambs getting to your ewes as bad.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Right,

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: We're planning on
castrating our ram lambs this year mainly

from a management standpoint because just
keeping them separated, we've actually

done a lot of fencing to improve that.

Some permanent paddocks because those
ram lambs, oh man, one gets out,

they just mess up lambing season.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Absolutely.

Yeah.

We're going to have to be pretty diligent
about making sure everything gets banded.

That way, if we do leave them on the use,
like you're talking about, cause I've

heard horror stories from people that talk
about having 150 or 250 ewes and there was

only one ram lamb and they all got bread.

So it's crazy what they can do.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yes,
well I had a ram lamb out and I

had about 50 of my ewes lamb in
February or March and then the rest

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Mm hmm.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: in
May when they were supposed to.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

Yeah.

They can do a lot in a little bit of time.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: One other
species you mentioned was horses.

And, are you still, do you
graze very many horses?

And are you managing them
in a regenerative fashion?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Not as
much, so, they're, most of the horses

are on another place and they're
not really grazed the way that,

the sheep and cattle and stuff are.

Now, I will say, they can be here at the
house now, my wife has her horses here

and I have one, my daughter and stuff
and I hate to see a horse, so, Park out

an area, and grab it to the ground and
stuff So what the condition was is that

if they came over here to the house?

I'm such a stickler on my grass and
taking care of it that they would be

rotated around and so we're using poly
wire and rotating them around and moving

them every two or three days and They
can I mean if they're grazed like that

in that manner, they can be a really good
grazing animal, you know it's Just like

anything, they'll overgraze same as a cow
or sheep will if they get the opportunity.

So I'm actually looking forward to
seeing what I can do with them and

targeting some areas that maybe some
riparian areas in the summertime

that I don't really want the cows in.

Stomping up and standing in the
creek, but those horses won't do that.

So grazing some areas like that,
and doing different things.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, very good.

You mentioned using
electric fence with them.

Are you using poly braid?

Are you using poly tape or,

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
Polybraid is all I use.

Yeah just poly braid, yeah, just
regular same stuff I use for the cattle,

whenever I'm dividing a paddock up
in half or something like that, so.

They respect it pretty well.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: and that makes
more sense to me than going out and

having a separate product just for horses

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: hmm.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: with them.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah.

Yeah.

I like it because I can still run my
sheep in there through that paddock.

If I need to eat the broadleaves and
stuff that they had, the horses don't

want, I can flash the sheep through there
and it seems to be working real well.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh yeah.

One last question before we go ahead and
go to the overgrazing section I didn't

ask this earlier and I'm not even sure
why I didn't, but you mentioned polybraid

through there and bringing sheep in.

How many Polybraid lines are
you running for your cattle,

for your sheep, for your horses?

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Okay.

So on the place I'll get, I'll just use
the place that I'm living at it because

every place has a little bit different.

Dad's got several places and
we have some rental places

that we operate on and stuff.

So everyone's a little different, but on
this place, I actually have it divided up

into about 40 paddocks and it has three
and four strands of high tensile electric.

And the reason I went to that was when
I was going, working a full time job

and I was putting up poly wire every
day, taking it down, I'd have to do that

before work and after work and whatever.

I got tired of building the same
fence five and six times a year.

And it was just a labor deal
that I thought, I just need to

put the money into the fence.

And now I give up some flexibility
and different things like that

with that system, but there's
some things I gained with that as

well.

So with the sheep basically I
don't use poly wire with them.

I just rotate them through that.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yeah.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
Series of paddocks and stuff.

And it may be, maybe I'm in there a
day and then in the growing season,

and then more of the dormant season,
I might be every two days or something

in a paddock and still rotating the
cows, the, they're in those paddocks

for a day or two, depending on how
many head I have from the clients.

And I do use poly wire to break
those paddocks up into two or three

different pieces to get higher impact.

better utilization on the grass.

So it just depends, but I just
use one poly wire on that.

Yeah.

And I like it.

I mean, there's times I think that I do
my fencing differently and there's times

I do change things and whatnot, but I
don't know the perfect way to do things.

I think it's a little bit different
for everybody, what fits their needs.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yes.

Yeah.

And that's one reason sharing
these stories, maybe something

will speak to someone, they're
like, Oh, that's what I should do.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Mhm.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Even if it's
been said a hundred times, I know for me,

I need to hear it about a hundred times

before it really

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: I do too.

Usually I have to do it about a hundred
times before it dawns on me, but.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914:
Yeah, yeah, that too, yeah.

Well Jeremia, it's time for us
to transition to our overgrazing

section where we take a little
bit deeper dive into something

you're doing on your operation.

And one thing we talked about
and you mentioned just a

little bit was custom grazing.

So we had discussed custom
grazing for management and

you'd mentioned earlier you're

grazing sheep ahead of some
fall calving custom cows.

Let's talk about your custom
grazing operation and what

you're trying to do with that.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Okay, sure.

So the reason I like the custom
grazing and what we're trying to

do with it is it offers me so much.

Well, there's a number of things,
but one thing it offers me so much

flexibility in how I manage my grass.

If, like I said earlier, if I didn't
have the cows in that system, I'd

have a bunch of rank fescue that
the sheep wouldn't perform well

on and I'd have parasite problems.

Now, there's a whole debate out there.

They, some people say that the
cows vacuum up to parasite,

the sheep parasites and stuff.

I'm not as much of a believer in that
because if you listen to the experts

that say the larvae only travel up
about four inches on the plants well

I'm not grazing that short anyhow, so
to me it's more of a deal I'm using

those cows to condition that grass
to be higher nutritional content

whenever those sheep come back around.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Oh, yeah.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: I'm getting
paid to do that, so I'm having those

May, June, July, and August Or let's
say May, June, July and part of August,

they'll go home sometime in August there.

It might be the 1st.

It might be the 15th.

It just depends on the year.

So I'm getting paid to use someone
else's cows as a tool to help

me manage my grass for my sheep.

And I like that flexibility
from a drought standpoint too.

Last year we were extremely dry.

I think we had like 18 inches of
rain total and we're in like a

40, roughly 40 inch rainfall area.

So we were well below half.

And I knew going into the beginning
of April that, We were dry.

We only had a 10th of an
inch the month of April.

And I called my clients and said, look,
I can only take 60 percent of what you

sent me last year, and I may have to
tell you to come get them in 30 days.

Ultimately we did graze them for 45
days, but what would have happened

if I would have, instead of having.

Those 150 or 200 cows that we took in
custom grazing, what if I would have

had 150 cows that I had to try to
figure out a way to feed through that

drought, so that custom grazing deal
just really offers a lot of flexibility

to me in how I manage everything.

Think of our cow, our Corriente cows is
what we can carry through the wintertime

grazing, most of the wintertime with them.

And then we just try to fluctuate
our, I mean, try to manage our

excess grass growth in the summertime
with those custom cows, basically.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah Now
for your custom cows, are you telling

your clients we're interested in fall
calving cows so that you get dry cows.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yes.

And the reason that is, is those.

Those mamas with those babies, those
newborn babies, especially with

that three strand electric or four
strand electric, those calves will

get shocked and run through it.

And then they'll go hide and stuff.

And it's, when I'm moving them,
it's just too much trouble

to have to deal with that.

So I try to stay away from those cows.

I had one of them though, the other
day, just yesterday, or no, it was a

couple days ago, anyhow My neighbor
said that she had a set of twins and

sure enough, I have one out there
that's not supposed to calve till August

supposedly, but she had a set of twins.

I have to get her out of
there, but no big deal.

No big deal.

But we really liked the fall calving cows.

Yeah.

But my clients or our clients that we
work with they're good to work with.

And people have asked me about that
before, like I, they say, well,

I couldn't find anybody to graze.

you know, would let me graze their cows.

But I bet if you looked around
a little bit, you probably

would because it's a generality.

No matter where you're at, people love
their cows and always want more cows.

And most people like to bale hay.

So between those two things, if they
can send their cows somewhere or have

more of them and they get to bale their
hay on their place it, it typically

makes people happy and that works well
with if you want to take those cows in.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah, and
that's a huge selling point right there.

Send them over here.

I'll custom graze them.

You can get your own hay wrapped up.

And like you said, so many
people love to bale hay.

And I say that not only pay someone
to bale their hay, but they want to

have all the equipment to bale hay.

And I'm not a fan of baling hay.

I've done too much of it.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah,
well, like I said, grandpa was a dairy

farmer growing up and we square baled
everything and hauled it in and stuff.

And I still like hauling square bales just
because it reminds me of when I was a kid.

But as far as owning the equipment, we're
pretty bare bones on that sort of thing.

We have four wheeler.

My ideal equipment is a four
wheeler, chainsaw, and a drip torch.

That's my big three.

I do like, I do like to have
access to a skid steer once in

a while to clean up some stuff.

It's really nice.

But we have a tractor and a brush
hog and that's about it and it

doesn't get used very often.

So, I just, it's hard to make
it pencil to own your own haying

equipment unless you have an incredible
amount of hay that you put up.

That was one thing I went
through Jim Gerrish's Kick the

Hay Habit school years ago.

And that was amazing to me when
we worked through his worksheet.

What, how many bales of hay you actually
had to put up to, to make that pencil out.

And so that kind of stuck with me.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: It
doesn't surprise me at all.

And we dairied and I know so often I
would milk while dad went to lay down a

pasture so that when we got done milking,
the dew would be off or getting close

to being off so we could start raking
another pasture so we can get some

baling done.

Like I've mentioned on the podcast, it's
the only time in my life I've been happy

I've got allergies and asthma.

It's I didn't have to do as much of that.

Now, I could cut grass pretty
good, but the rest of the work I

got out of, and my brother says I
pushed it a little bit too much.

That's a debate for another day.

But we never had new equipment.

We always had cheap, not cheap
equipment, good used equipment.

And it's not good used
equipment, it's good used.

So things would break and I, that's where
I learned I do not like mechanic work.

Just changing out bearings on balers
and I'm like, I don't want to do it.

I don't.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914: Yeah,
I'm not very good at it either.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: No.

I have, now part of it may
be just the way we did stuff.

I remember as a teenager, 16, had
first truck and I needed to work on it.

And we, we'd do stuff
under the tree out here.

We, I can remember the baler
being in front of the dairy

barn so we could work on it.

And we had to get it going so
we could move it out of the way

for the milk truck to show up.

But I had to work on my
pickup for some reason.

I took it out to my grandpa's and he,
I worked on it in his garage, and he

has these huge tool chest with all
his tools organized and everything.

And I remember for a fleeting thought,
fleeting moment, I thought, This isn't

half bad, but it quickly escaped me.

jeremia_1_06-19-2024_174914:
Yeah, I understand.

cal_1_06-19-2024_174914: Well, Jeremia,
it sounds really interesting what you're

doing with your custom grazing there.

I like how you're pinpointing some
cows that require lower requirements,

lower nutritional requirements, and
using them in a follower system.

I think that's a great utilization
of the certain class of

animals to achieve your goal.

With that, it's time for us to
move to our Famous Four questions

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What is Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag?