Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
Decades Ottawa has been chipping away at
what Canadians are allowed to own, usually
by decree, rarely with a real debate.
My guest has spent 30 years pushing back.
He started as a field officer in
Vancouver and worked his way to the top
of Canada's National Firearms Association.
He's watched the bans pile up,
and the same fights come around
again, and he's still at it.
This week, in the hardest
stretch the organization has
faced, he's the one carrying it.
Welcome to the Silvercore
Podcast, Blair Hagen.
Thank you for having me.
Okay, Blair.
Before we get into any of this,
the NFA lost Rick this week, and I
want to give you the room to speak
to that first in whatever way- Sure
you feel is right.
Sure.
Yeah.
I know it's, uh, was, uh,
quite sudden for most people.
Uh, but, uh, our president,
Rick Ikercich, uh, did pass
away, uh, a couple of days ago.
Uh, uh, if you're on our social media,
uh, you saw it immediately, but, uh, it,
uh, you know, uh, it, it was pretty, uh,
it was pretty tragic in a lot of ways.
Uh, Rick started out as, I mean,
as we all do, field officer, and
then you work your way up into,
uh, uh, provincial executives.
Uh, he was an Ontario director for
a while, and, uh, then finally was
elected, uh, president of Canada's
National Firearms Association.
Um, a couple of months ago,
um, it became apparent that
s- he was starting to get ill.
He took a leave of absence, said, "Look,
I need to deal with this. Uh, I gotta
see a doctor, and, uh, give me a couple
of months. I'll be back on my feet,
and, uh, I'll continue." Fortunately,
it didn't, uh, work out that way,
and, uh, he, uh, uh, eventually ended
up p- going into hospital, uh, and
then hospice, and, uh, passed away.
Now I think there's, uh, on the
website I believe, uh, the family's
asked if people wanna make donations.
There's a couple of places.
I think the hospice is one of them.
That's right.
The Cancer Society's another one.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you can find that
information on, uh, our website
and, uh, our social media.
So, uh, if, uh, if you n- knew
Rick, uh, liked him, wanna make a
donation, that information is there.
So Blair, I'm going back in
my memory banks a little bit.
I'm going back to when I am a teenager,
late teens, and I see you coming out
to the Historical Arms Collectors
Gun Show- Yeah … setting up a
table and, and putting up the banners
and handing out flyers to people.
Yeah.
You've come a hell of
a long way since then.
Yeah.
It's, it's been a long,
long road, I'll say that.
Yeah.
Um, I, I got s- started to get
involved back in, uh, '94, '95, uh,
because of, uh, well, I mean, uh,
because of the long gun registry.
Mm.
And we all knew what that meant.
I mean, if they managed to register
all the guns, they're going to
be coming for them at some point.
Um, I, I had sort of been aware what
was happening with gun laws previously.
As you know, there was legislation
from the, uh, Progressive
Conservative government in the
early 1990s, which contained a
lot of bans and stuff like that.
And then of course, uh, when the Liberals
were elected in, uh, '93, uh, they made
it their, uh, first order of business to,
uh, to bring about, uh, gun legislation.
Uh, got a copy of the proposed legislation
and read it, and, you know, it became
obvious that this was the end of
rights and freedoms in Canada, right?
Mm.
So I had to do something.
And, uh, I took a look around at
the various organizations that, uh,
were, were, were present then, and,
uh, I became aware of, uh, National
Firearms Association and, uh, its
president, uh, David Tomlinson.
Mm.
And I read his stuff, and, uh,
Dave picked apart the legislation.
And-
He wasn't a lawyer or anything
like that, but he, he analyzed it
like a lawyer would analyze it.
Yeah.
And he'd pick holes in things in,
in ways that somebody who only knows
the material extremely well can.
E- e- exactly, and, and coming from a
background of firearms expertise- Mm
he, he was just the guy to do it.
Mm.
So he picked apart the legislation,
um, showed its flaws, uh, showed, uh,
what, uh, some of the regulations,
uh, really meant and, uh, basically
predicted, uh, that, uh, it would fail.
Mm.
And, uh, of course, uh, at that point
in time everybody laughed at him and
said, "No, no, no, Dave, you're wrong,"
especially the mainstream media and, you
know, the mainstream political parties.
Sure.
And, um, but, um, I got ahold of
his, his writings on it and, uh, it
sort of, uh, it sort of gave me hope
that it could be, uh, corrected, the
situation could be corrected, and I
think it did that for a lot of people.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, he… I, I remember, uh, when
authorizations of transport, they
were, uh, e- even the RCMP or at that
time the Canadian Firearms Center,
before they were calling themselves
the Canadian Firearms Program-
Yeah
They didn't know really what they're
doing with these ATTs and how they're
going out, so Dave wrote a ATT cheat
sheet, and, uh, he made it normative
for not only the individuals trying
to get an authorization to transport,
but also for the firearms program.
When they look at it, it's like,
"Oh, yeah, here's another one
coming in. We know the process." So-
Yeah
…
I th- I thought that was a pretty, pretty
neat thing that one individual with a
keen mind and the ability to put pen
to paper and put it out and disseminate
to people was able to not only affect
change within the community, but also
within the people that sometimes the
community feels is their enemy, right?
The Man, the government.
Yeah, sure.
But it, it had to be done.
Right.
I mean, if, uh, if, if it hadn't
been done, um, you'd be waiting for
answers from the bureaucracy, and,
you know, that takes, as you know,
that takes years and years and years.
Meanwhile, you have people who,
uh, wanna engage in legitimate
activities with firearms.
Mm.
How can they do it?
Because everything's gotta
be authorized, right?
Mm-hmm.
And if that authorization is not
forthcoming or in a, in a way that, uh,
is not conducive to al- allow legitimate
legal activities with firearms, well, you
know, Dave just kind of seized the day
and said, "I'm just going to pick this
apart and provide a guide forward on it."
Well, Dave's actions there are what,
uh, encouraged me and kind of inspired
me on the authorization to carry one.
I- Yeah … I said, "Well, if he can
do that with the ATT, why can't I do
something like that with the authorization
to carry and work together with you guys
at the NFA and Rachel Attilla there and-
Yeah
uh, helped her through her
process of getting her ATC and
created a complete template.
And I should say we'll put links
in the description if people
wanna download the template.
I've actually made an up-to-date
one, which accounts for a few
changes that have come through.
Yes.
So they can, they can see the work that
we put in in order to, uh, normalize
that process, but it also touches on,
'cause I'll bring it up a little later
as well, it touches on the, the handgun
freeze and the ability for people to
still be able to purchase handguns.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, you know, a lot of people look
at these bureaucracies, and they go,
"It's just monolithic. Um, they don't
communicate. Uh, there's not a lot of
transparency," and they just give up.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And that's the wrong thing to do.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
Uh- Firearms laws change, okay?
The situation we have today
is not gonna last forever.
Eventually we'll elect a new government,
and there'll be more firearms law reform.
But in the meantime, what do you do?
You have to pick apart the, uh, leg-
uh, the legislation, the regulations.
You have to find ways of navigating
that bureaucracy to engage in…
And, and i- a lot of times they
don't see it as legitimate.
They, they certainly don't see,
uh, authorization to carry as a
legitimate, uh, pursuit with firearms
even though it does exist in the
firearms act and, and can be issued.
They want to discourage
people from doing it.
And by they, you mean
the firearms program.
The firearms program.
And I know this 'cause they've
told me that to my face.
E- exactly.
So.
It's, it's like we do not want a
lot of these in circulation because
guns are bad, and handguns are
worse than everything else, and why
don't you just carry a long gun.
Right.
Okay.
Because, uh, and it gets into things
like they wanna denormalize the, uh,
possession and use of handguns in
Canada, the lawful possession and use.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, the, uh, criminal, uh,
misuse, uh, well, they don't
really care about that a lot.
You
know.
Yeah, like what's actually happening,
th- like that's a whole topic in itself.
Oh, isn't
it?
Yeah.
But I mean, part of this is preaching to
the choir because, uh, uh, when I look
at our demographic that we deal with,
hunting, firearms, outdoor activities, but
we also reach people all over the world.
Right.
Uh, UK is number three for downloads for
us, and- Hmm … they, they've got their
own issues that they're dealing with.
Yeah.
Uh, Sweden I think is number four.
Um, i- interesting the, the wide
reach that this podcast has, as
well as people who've never been
interested in firearms before.
Yeah.
So when I'm going through, and I've,
I've put a bunch of questions and stuff
together, w- I'm gonna try and talk as
if not only the choir they know, like
the, our government's enacting laws to
limit legal firearms owners- ownership.
Yeah.
The keyword there being legal.
Uh, and they're not taking steps to
actually address the root causes of
criminality and violence, and all the,
all the rest, but I'm gonna talk to the
non-initiated as well so that they've got
a little bit of, uh, uh, better insight.
Yeah.
And, and it's something that we
don't really, or, or haven't talked
about certainly in the past, uh, is
the culture of firearms in Canada.
Yeah.
And we do have a, a gun culture.
Yeah, we do.
And it's a very strong and a very
proud gun culture, and it's, uh, a
culture based on safety and respect,
and all of those good things.
But it has been abused and, uh, manhandled
by successive governments in Ottawa that
frankly have an i- ideological agenda.
Right.
Uh, there's just no other way to say it.
Um, uh, as a community,
we are organized now.
Uh, we are organized politically.
Yeah.
Uh, we have a road ahead.
We have pathways to correct
what the liberals are doing.
But- You really have to stand up for that.
And I, I, I remember in the early days,
a lot of, you know, uh, guys, guys of
our fathers' generation didn't wanna
do that because, you know, they took a
look at, uh, the political situation in
the excited states and kinda decided,
"Well, you know, why- we'll just, uh,
we'll just cooperate and c- compromise.
And yeah- Yeah … I mean, some
of these regulations are a little
bit, uh, are, are, are a little bit
frustrating, but, uh, you know, if
it, if it's for public safety, it's,
it's worth doing." Look what happened.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
So it's, uh, is very, very important
that we continue to be politically
active, uh, politically present,
um, not only in Ottawa, in the
provinces, but, uh, standing up
for this very, very proud culture.
I mean, we have nothing,
uh, to apologize for.
We are the best kind of Canadians.
All right?
When I look at it, and I'll play
devil's advocate, okay, so we have some
people who, uh, know firearms, collect
firearms, use firearms, and they've,
they've got a good grasp on what that
culture's like and what it all looks like.
We've got people out there who maybe they
were negatively affected by firearms-
Of course … and crime and whatever it
might be, and they're vehemently opposed.
And so we've got these two sides.
But the vast, vast majority of people
out there, th- they're neither here
nor there, and they- Yes … they
look at this, and they say, "Well,
why does anyone need a firearm?"
Sure.
And they say, "Yeah, okay. That- I
guess that makes sense. If we ban
these guns, then there's gonna be
no more, no more gun crimes, right?"
Well, there's not a lot of,
lot out of them out there.
I don't know anybody who owns a gun.
Uh, there are people like that who,
who don't have a, a cultural reference-
Hmm
for it and sorta see guns as a, a, a bad
thing, um, you know, based on, uh, their
opinions, uh, a lot of them mistaken,
uh, about the situation in the United
States, and they base it off of that.
Yeah.
Um, you know, as far as, you know,
affected neg- negatively, uh,
there's, there's not a lot of people.
Uh, of course, as you know, gun
crime in Canada, uh, certainly
in the past was, uh, very low.
We had a very, very safe society.
Uh, firearms, uh, were not generally
used in crime, and when they
were, uh, the perpetrators, uh,
got very, very stiff sentences-
Hmm
…
because of the presence
of the gun in the offense.
Now, all of that in the last, I wanna
say 40 years progressively has changed,
where, uh, although the, uh, use of
the firearm is used negatively, the
sentencing no longer reflects it.
Hmm.
Okay?
Gun charges are among the
first that are dropped.
I mean, you talk about people who've been,
uh, negatively affected by firearms, and,
and I can understand that because I have.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
I mean, I've been through
two armed robberies.
Hmm.
Okay?
And they're not fun.
Tell me about that.
Like that just is a completely different,
I know this is an ADHD tangent, but I'm
curious about these armed robberies.
Oh, really?
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, no, uh, two, yeah, two armed
robberies, uh, uh, my, you know, through
my employer, uh, Lever Arm Service-
Mm-hmm
…
in Vancouver, which, uh, yeah,
uh, I, I think most people would
be, uh, familiar with, uh, c- uh,
Vancouver's longest standing gun store.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, yeah, um, very, very close
to downtown Vancouver, and, uh,
this is going back, uh, a few years.
But, uh, uh, the first one, um, a
couple of guys come into the, uh,
store expressing interest in looking
at guns, and, uh, demonstrate the guns.
One, his buddy walks out, walks back in,
takes a, uh, takes a pistol out his coat,
out of his coat and points it at me.
Hmm.
So anyways, uh, that's frightening.
So tell, tell me this, you know
firearms, you've seen firearms.
Yes.
When you got one stuck in your
face like that, are you looking
at it saying, "Is that real?
Is it not real?" Or are you just
like, "Okay, we're just gonna assume
this thing's real, and here we go."
Well, that's exactly it, and that has an
impact on the second story I'll tell you.
Okay.
But, uh, takes it out of his waistband.
I recognize it.
It's a, it's a Chinese Tokarev handgun.
Yeah.
So what do I do?
What do I do?
Uh, first thing I do, I throw up
my hands and I start backing up.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm backing up, and everybody else in
the store is like, "What's Blair doing?"
Yeah.
"
Why is he doing that?
What's going on?" I back up,
I back right out of the store.
Uh, they, uh, they get frightened
and they, uh, take off.
Okay.
So luckily that ended, you know, that
particular, uh, that particular episode.
Uh, the second one, um- I'm standing
at the, uh, the till, and, uh, if you,
you were, if you were familiar with
Lever Arms in Vancouver, it was not
set up like your typical gun store.
Right.
Okay?
Right.
Yes.
And it, uh, it was kind of an odd
little store, uh, in a basement in a
building in Vancouver, and, uh, th-
there was an entrance, the front,
front entrance, which was blind.
I mean, if, uh, i- if, uh, w- w- a l- a
window was later put in so you could see
p- people coming- Right … and going out.
But there was also a motion detector
and bell to announce people coming in.
So you would walk into the store,
and it would announce you, bing bong,
and you could, uh, the staff could
look up and see who was coming in.
So I'm standing at the till, and, uh,
hear the bell, bing bong, and I see a
character coming in through the entrance.
Uh, hands, uh, a full hoodie, hoodie
over his head and face, hands in
his pockets, and then, uh, my,
uh, my spidey senses kinda go up.
Yes.
This, there's something going on here.
Yes.
And I, so I start moving, you know?
Yeah.
And, uh- As
one should
…
as one should.
And, uh, very shortly afterwards,
two other guys come in, and
one of them's got a Sten gun.
A Sten gun?
Yeah.
Okay.
So for people who don't know
what a Sten gun is, these, these
aren't items that have been
captured by the recent prohibition.
No.
These are things that have been
prohibited for a very long time.
Very, very long time.
And you were saying, I mean, is,
uh, you know, what do you think?
Is this thing real or not, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, as we all know, there's,
uh, there's a lot of, uh,
de-watted Sten guns out there.
Sure.
And, uh, but the fact of the
matter is, it's not that hard.
I've seen de-watted Sten guns that fire.
Yes, I'm sure you have.
Mm.
So have I. Mm-hmm.
So, uh, what the fact of the
matter is, uh, what do you do?
I mean, you a- assume that
this is not real and not live,
go up and take it off him?
No, I'm not going to do that.
Mm-hmm.
So again, I'm moving, and a Sten
guy, a Sten gun guy comes in and,
and covers the rest of the staff.
I'm in the back by this
time, uh, calling 911.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know-
What a, what a difference between
Canadian and American gun stores,
because American gun stores
might be a little bit different.
Well, exactly.
And, uh, i- i- and after those two
incidents, I, I, I, you know, um,
uh, you know, I explored getting
a, a authorization to carry- Right
but of course, you know, I was refused.
It's like, "You know, you don't need
this." And it's a similar experience
for other stores in Canada, and it
really, really, uh, it, it, it, it
confused me because you're in a store
that's full of guns, ammo, and cash.
Mm-hmm.
And you're not supposed to… And,
and, and not only, you know, your
lives too, because, you know, uh,
uh, uh, perpetrators and criminals
will assume, well, I mean, you know,
we're gonna knock over a gun store,
obviously those guys are gonna be armed.
And unfortunately, uh, you're disarmed
by, uh, by bure- bureaucratic decree.
Did I ever tell you about the time
that, uh, and I was helping out Hunter's
Sporting Goods back in the day when
Hunter's Sporting Goods was around?
Yeah.
And, uh, uh, they were looking
to get authorizations to carry,
and we went through the process.
From my perspective, I think a gun store
can get it, and there are provisions
in the, um- Firearms Act, regulations,
criminal code that, that allow for this.
Sure.
Um, but it gets onerous after a certain
point, and people say, "Well, geez, I
got, I got work to do, or do I just keep
fighting this thing further and further?"
Right.
But, um, they were told that they were
the closest to ever having been issued
an authorization- Mm … to carry.
The last hurdle that they were
given, 'cause they met every single
hurdle- Mm … was you have to get
a letter from the chief of police
from your area saying that, um,
police protection is not adequate.
And they said not from a police officer,
but it has to be from the chief, and
the chief has to say police- Right
… protection isn't adequate in their area.
And there's no chief that's gonna
turn around and say, "Oh yeah, by the
way, we- we're just not adequate to
be able to, uh, to assist you." At
least no chief that I've seen up here.
I've seen video clips of some, uh,
chiefs and sheriffs in the States
that have no problem saying that.
Sure.
"When seconds count, the
police are minutes away." But-
E- ex- exactly, so, uh, it's prevented
by a bureaucratic de- uh, decree.
Mm-hmm.
And it's similar in the cases
of individual ATCs as well.
I mean, unless there's an active
police file and the police have, have
signed off saying that, "No, we can't
provide adequate protection for this
individual," then you're not getting it.
Yeah.
And even if you do get it, and, uh,
I'd be very surprised if there's
any active ATCs in Canada right now.
But, uh, no, it's just- Active
for-
Uh, individuals, uh- I see … yeah,
and certainly not for business.
For protection of life.
That's right.
For protect- protection of life.
A-
as opposed to you're working a remote
area, or your primary activity is
the transport of cash or negotiables.
That's right, yeah.
So, um, it, it… and it's done that
way by design because, uh, they, they
will accept, uh, that, yes, there
are some instances, very, very few
and, uh, very, very narrow, where an
individual may have to carry a handgun.
Right.
We do not want this to spread
because it, again, it's the boogeyman
of the United States, you know?
And, uh, unfortunately, uh, k- there
are states in the United States
that are more safe than Canada-
Mm
…
because of the presence
of armed individuals.
Uh, but of course, it gets into
a cultural thing, you know, good
old-fashioned Canadian parochialism.
You know, we, we do things different here.
We have a safer society.
Well, I'll tell you what, we don't.
Uh, our society is just as, uh, as
violent, uh, as, uh, places in the
United States, but, uh, the fact
is there's just fewer Canadians.
So there's gonna be people, 'cause I
hear it often, "What can I do?" Right?
Yeah.
"What, what can I do?
I'm not Blair.
I don't have his knowledge.
I don't have his background.
Of course Blair can do it, but- … but
what, what can I do?" Right?
So can you tell me a little bit about
your background and temperament, and,
uh, how- How you use that to do what
you do, and maybe some of the toll
that takes on you, because you fighting
for 30 years, fighting, fighting.
It's- Yeah … it takes a toll.
Well, sure.
Um, well, I mean, I was like anybody else.
I mean, you know, I had a basic…
When I got started, I had a basic
understanding of firearms, sure.
I mean, you know, from my, my
family, that sort of thing,
I was familiar with firearms.
Mm. But, uh, not so much familiar
with firearms law, uh, legislation,
and definitely politics.
And of course back in the early '90s,
uh, maybe some people w- will, uh,
remember the political situation
then, but, uh, uh, I, I know people
are despondent now because of the
political situation in Canada, but
in the early 1990s it was even worse.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
Because both, uh, all the major
political parties, uh, were anti-gun.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
The progressive conservatives,
the liberals, the NDP, they were
all anti-gun, and we didn't have
a lot of, uh, choices in the type
of political action we could take.
Then, uh, obviously you had the
coming of the Reform Party, uh, the,
uh, dissolution of the Progressive
Conservative Party, and of course the
whole conservative movement in Canada
changed, and it changed for the better,
uh, especially in terms of firearms.
And, uh, a lot of individuals, uh,
especially in National Farms Association,
but, you know, other individuals, other
organizations, made a very, very big
investment in that, uh, to the point
today where we have a major political
party, mainstream political party, that is
supportive of, uh, the Canadian right and
cultural tradition of firearms ownership.
Mm-hmm.
And if you don't have that, because
i- if you look at other countries
in the world, um, you're not gonna
be able to make any headway in
protecting your rights and freedoms.
Uh, if you look at, you know, places like
Australia, UK, um, that have suffered very
greatly, it's because, uh, the mainstream
political parties would not take this
up as, uh, a part of their policy.
Mm-hmm.
We understand this to be your right.
We understand this to be a le- legitimate
part of Canadian cultur- culture.
And that's the Conservative Party today.
Mm-hmm.
And it's been a very long, hard fight to
do that, uh, to correct the, the attitudes
of the old Progressive Conservative
Party of 30, 40 years ago, uh, which
tolerated firearms ownership, but, uh,
was not, certainly not in favor of it
and did not want to, uh, protect, uh,
uh, gun rights in Canada, to a point
now where we have a major political
party, uh, that has formed government,
has introduced firearms law reform,
and, uh, I believe will do so again.
You know, politicians, they always
say either first job's to get elected,
second job's to stay elected, right?
Yeah.
Uh, I see firearms used
mostly as a wedge issue.
Sure.
"Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna, uh,
ban all of these guns, and, but our
opponents here, they wanna see everybody
walking around with an AK-47- Yeah
and driving around 24/7 with guns in their
glove box." And, and, and it's all lies.
It's all, it's all-
Yeah … political theater, right?
Abso- ab- absolutely.
Uh, uh, a lot of it's deliberate.
A lot of it's- Sure … a lot of it's
based on ignorance, because there, there
is a lot of ignorance about firearms, and,
uh, the problem is, um, certainly those,
uh, in Ottawa and elsewhere who would,
uh, disarm us are proud of that ignorance.
I think, so when you say ignorance,
my, my take on that is ignorance from
the populous about firearms, I don't
necessarily think parties that are
trying to ban guns are themselves
ignorant, because they've gotten
to a certain level, and at the very
least they have certain advisors.
I think they know- Yes
full well what they're doing, and the
efficacy of a ban towards curbing,
let's say, violence or things that
are stemmed from poverty and from, uh,
socio, uh, demographic- Yeah … kind
of issues, and ec- economics.
And I think the, uh, they rely
on the ignorance of the public
and are being intentionally
manipulative of that information.
Well, e- sure.
The advisors do know that.
Sure.
Okay?
And there is a cadre, uh, in the Canadian
government, uh, in the bureaucracies,
the various ministries, that do want
to see a disarmed count- uh, country,
and, uh, it's always been there, okay?
And they will, uh, use whatever government
that is in power to pursue that agenda.
Uh, if it's a, a, a, a more right-leaning
government, while you're not going to, uh,
uh, get as much, uh, of your agenda done.
But, uh, even under the Harper
government, there were firearms bans
and confiscations- Mm-hmm … and
people seem to forget about that.
Mm-hmm.
They were very, very limited
in scale, very, very small in
scope- But, uh, it happened.
So it wasn't all good news.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, yes, the long gun registry was
ended, and that was the 800-pound gorilla.
Mm.
Um, but… And other reforms achieved,
uh, before they, uh, th- they lost power.
But, uh, that bureaucracy did, uh,
continue to target firearms owners,
uh, did continue to target their
property, and yes, people lost guns.
I mean, it wasn't on the scale that we're-
we're seeing today, but it did happen.
Uh- Yeah … so.
I think that word that you just said
there, property, I think that's the
one that segues from the people who
are like, "Why are you taking my
guns? It's a legitimate thing. We
have a gun culture- Yeah … and all
the rest," that expands to people who
have no interest, have never touched
a gun, don't know anyone who has one.
If they can do that to you
so easily, what's next?
What they can th- what can they do to me?
And I think that's why these parties
are starting to take it up, 'cause
they realize, okay, hold on a
second, the end outcome of this,
these bans and confiscations based
off of fear- Yeah … and political
posturing, not evidence-based,
um, but hey, it's working for us.
What's the next thing that we can do
out of fear and political posturing
to, uh, which might deprive other
individuals of their property?
A- a- absolutely.
And rights.
And, and, and I, I think you
see that more so to- today.
Mm. Um, because it's not just guns.
I mean, uh, especially here in BC, I
mean, we have a lot of, uh, uh, people,
property owners who are, are, are very,
very frightened and frustrated, uh, you
know, over, uh, l- land claims issues.
Sure.
It, it's like, uh, if the government…
you know, a, a court decision comes
down and it's like, "Well, no, you
don't own this, your property."
"Well, I've been paying a mortgage on
it for 30 years." "Well, so sorry."
Yeah.
Um, and then you add into things like
massive, uh, gun bans and attempted,
uh, confiscations, yeah, people are,
I was gonna say starting to wake
up, but I think people have woken
up to, uh, the very real threats.
And it's the scale that it takes place on.
If it's just affecting someone else
or, you know, this little group
here or that little group there,
um, people can tend to ignore that.
Mm. But when you're looking at,
uh, for example, with, uh, uh, the
current gun grab, we're, we're, we're
talking about hundreds of thousands,
if not millions, of firearms.
Mm.
Okay?
And that affects a lot of people.
I know the government
downplays the numbers.
Uh, they did the same thing with long
gun registry, but, uh, they downplay the
numbers and, uh, certainly, uh, in terms
of the compliance that they got and, you
know, uh, people in the general public.
I- i- if, if you know nothing about
firearms in Canada, they might look
impressive to you, but if you know
something about firearms laws or firearms
in Canada, yeah, you, you can see how
badly this current gun grab is failing.
Mm. So the NFA- 50 years of
advocating for firearms rights.
Um, I, from an outsider,
I see the easy path.
The easy path is to catastrophize and
to play to people's fears and to, to
rile people up, and I don't see the
NFA Taking that route, how do you-
Right.
Yeah.
Um, how do you keep the NFA's
claims credib- credible without
catastrophizing which pays better?
Y- yeah.
And, a- and I, I can understand,
uh, why, uh, some people do that.
I mean, I've seen it
in the past certainly.
Sure.
And there's always an
element of truth to that.
Sure.
Okay?
But why do that when you can provide
a positive path forward, a positive,
uh, a positive, uh, path of political
reforms, uh, g- being involved in, in,
uh, uh, politics, not only at the federal
level, but also at the provincial level?
And we see how important
that is now, don't we?
Mm.
Majority of provinces in Canada not
supporting, uh, the liberal gun grab.
That's crazy.
Like, I'm trying to rack my brain.
Has this happened in other areas,
where a federal law comes through
and the provinces are like, "Eh,
we're gonna do everything we can to
find a way to, to not support this?"
Oh, I'm sure it's happened
in, in, in the past.
Certainly not with firearms.
I mean, this is unprecedented.
Right.
That- I've never seen it on firearms.
Yeah.
Uh, the, the majority of provinces
in Canada, and even the majority of
law enforcement agencies in Canada,
do not want to have any part of this.
Mm. And of course, that sets the federal
agenda back, because when you have
the cooperation of provinces, uh, that
are providing resources and logistics,
and you have the, uh, cooperation
of law enforcement agencies who are
enthusiastic about, uh, getting these
guns, then it makes that job much easier.
But, uh, the- You
have the social currency
to be able to do something.
Yeah.
Now they lack that.
They don't.
I- th- they don't have it.
I, I, I don't think they had it from
the beginning, because people, I think
right from the, the get-go on this,
people are going, "Oh, they banned a
bunch of guns. Okay. Uh, and they're
going to take them off their owners."
Well, these people purchased them legally.
They own them legally.
They all got firearms licenses.
They've demonstrated that they're
not a danger to public safety.
Well, why are you doing this?
Oh, they're dan- too dangerous
to be in circulation.
Well, it's b- it was, it's
been proven the opposite.
Right.
And not only that, but tell you
what, while we get around to taking
them from you, you guys just hold
onto them for a bunch of years.
I know, right?
Because they're so dangerous, but
you guys just keep holding onto it.
Yeah.
And, and we're not gonna
extend the amnesty.
Oh, okay, there's a court challenge.
We're gonna extend the, the
amnesty a little bit further.
W- wasn't the timing on
that interesting, huh?
That was interesting, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
No, it was, uh, um, uh, uh, it, it was
always my, my personal opinion, and
of course, uh, y- at National Firearms
Association, you, you constant- constantly
get questions from people going, "What
should I do? What should I do?" Well,
we're not gonna, we're not gonna, uh,
uh, advise you to do something, okay?
We, we're gonna tell you what you have
to do and what you don't have to do- Mm
number one, okay?
Well, the amnesty's coming up, and, you
know, uh, do I get my gun deactivated?
And, uh, boy, the, the, the options
that they, they offered people are
really- Uh, proving to be problematic.
Do I get it deactivated?
Do I export it?
Uh, do I just, uh, you know,
uh, sign up for this voluntary
registration for confiscation?
What should I do?
Uh, do you think they'll
hold to that amnesty?
And, you know, knowing, uh, the logistics
and, uh, the manpower that it would
take to actually do that running up
to October 30th, uh, I, I just had to
tell people, "Look, it is my opinion-
Mm
…
that they are going to have to extend
this because they cannot achieve
what they want to do by this date."
The majority of OIC firearms, Order in
Council firearms, are still out there
in the hands of their owners, okay?
Uh, they have not complied
with the program, okay?
So either the government decides
to create hundreds of thousands
of new criminals overnight-
Mm
…
or they have to extend it.
And y- you know, can you imagine
if they held to that, uh, amnesty
deadline, and all of a sudden, day
after, okay, we're all criminals.
And eventually people get caught up in it.
Why do you have this gun?
Why d- why didn't you do
something about it while you
had- Yeah … the opportunity?
And, uh, you're standing in a courtroom,
and, uh, you're in front of a judge,
and the judge asks you, "Why didn't you
comply?" "Well, I, I, I attempted to, Your
Honor, but I just couldn't get it done."
"Well, why didn't you have the gun
deactivated?" "I looked into that, but
I couldn't find a gunsmith to do it."
Mm.
Okay?
And if you look at the situation with
firearms businesses, and especially
gunsmiths in Canada, they're dropping
like flies now- Mm … because,
uh, various things, uh, firearms
legislation, the OICs, the economy.
So it's gonna be very, very difficult,
and I'm sure people are, are ha-
having this, uh, this challenge right
now, if you chose to go that route,
to actually- Yeah … find a, a
gunsmith to deactivate the gun for you.
"Well, I couldn't find a gunsmith,
Your Honor. I really, I really
tried, but there was just nobody
left that w- that could actually do
it before the end of the deadline."
"Oh, okay.
Well, why didn't you h- why
didn't you export it?" "Okay.
Well, I looked in- into that too,
Your Honor, and, uh, unfortunately,
I was told I could not e- export this
gun to the United States." "What?
Why not?" "Well, it was pr- it was, uh,
prohibited from en- en- entry under US
law." You know, why did you not export
your AR-15 rifle to the United States?
Mm-hmm.
Well, uh, illegal, unlawful
to do that, Your Honor.
Well, that's confusing.
Yeah, you think?
Okay, why didn't you
send it somewhere else?
Where?
I mean, w- where do the- You tell me
where, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Where, where do the majority of
firearms exports, uh, from Canada go?
The United States.
That's right.
Okay.
Couldn't send it to Australia.
Banned there.
Nope.
Couldn't send it to New Zealand.
Right.
Banned there.
So where do you send it?
Azerbaijan?
Hmm.
I mean, so the logistics of trying to find
a place for this gun to go, there you go.
Okay.
Well, uh, why, why didn't you turn it in?
Where, Your Honor?
Well, I mean, uh, your local
law enforcement agency.
Well, they're not participating
in this, Your Honor.
Hmm.
So what could I do?
Mm-hmm.
It, it… and if you look at it on
that basis, I mean, what court, what
judge is gonna c- convict somebody who
tried to comply with the law and was
stymying at, stymied at every step?
You know, you mentioned something
earlier about gun charges.
Somebody does something and the g- gun
charges are associated, one of the charges
they have on there, and they're, they're
usually the first ones to be dropped.
Yes.
And I see that time and time
again, and it's a tactic
going to court that they use.
It's like, "I'll tell you what, we'll just
get rid of these ones over here- Mm-hmm
if you just admit to these ones here."
And the reason is, is 'cause a lot of
these charges don't hold up to a candle.
A lot of the gun charges are- Yeah … so
poorly written, the Firearms Act and
the regulations, and it's so convoluted
that in order to defend it, it's
almost un- untenable to prosecute.
And to defend it, you're either
gotta be ignorant to what's the
possibilities are or, uh, or just
agree to the plea coming off.
Oh, oh, very much so.
But I mean, uh, e- even when it
comes to the, uh, the violent
misuse of firearms, even those
firearms, uh, charges are dropped.
I remember, uh, one of the, uh, the
Lever Arms, uh, uh, hold ups, and,
uh, uh, they actually caught the guys.
Hmm.
And, uh, we were notified that you will
have to appear as witnesses, you know, uh,
uh, you know, at this place on this date
and testify against these individuals.
And we're going, "Oh, great.
Okay, well, at least they got them." And,
uh, in the run-up to that, you know, it's
getting, you know, two weeks before we
gotta go to court, you know, a week before
we go to court, and a couple of days
before we, we actually had to, uh, show up
and testify, uh, we were notified by Crown
that, "Uh, we don't need you anymore."
Yeah, they plead.
They, they plead out to another
charge from another offense, and
they dropped the Lever Arms charge.
Mm-hmm.
See?
Yeah.
And where's the logic in that one?
I, I don't know.
Y- y- you know, firearms offenses, I
mean, I'm talking about legitimate.
Sure.
Legitimate, violent firearms offenses used
to be taken seriously in this country.
Mm-hmm.
But I, I, I, I hate to tell
everybody, but in, in a lot of
cases it's just lip service now.
It's like, "We're cracking
down on gun violence." How?
H- how, how are you doing that?
By taking, uh, taking all
these horrible, uh, uh, uh…
What's the term they use now?
Assault-style weapons.
That's right.
Yeah.
These, uh, these variants and
assault-style fair- right?
Nothing that's got a, uh, an, an, an
actual legal term associated with that.
Well, they got caught on… They used
to just call them assault weapons.
Sure.
Okay?
And of course, you know, people go,
"Well, they m- these must be fully
automatic firearms, and why should
anybody have these things?" And, you
know, they got called on this because
we, you know, if you're, if you know
guns, uh, you know what an actual,
uh, assault weapon is, you know?
Mm-hmm.
A, uh, select-fire, uh,
uh, self-loading firearm.
And none of the guns concerned, uh,
with the current gun grab are that.
So what they had to do is invent a new
term, and again, you know, it, it, it,
it, it comes under the, the heading of,
you know, things like Saturday Night
Specials, assault-style weapons- Mm-hmm
you know.
It, it, it's a term… It's
a marketing term, basically.
A political marketing term.
Sure.
And- A
lot
of this is
…
and I don't think it's really working
because people are looking at this now,
and we've seen this, uh, even in, uh,
national media, mainstream media, going,
"Well, these aren't military firearms."
They said they were gonna
send them to Ukraine.
Mm-hmm.
And Ukraine refused.
Mm-hmm.
So…
Well, if they have political marketing
terms- Yep … what can the gun
community have in its back pocket as
its own political marketing terms?
Like, if that's a game that's being
played, it seems, "Okay, they're gonna
go sing off-key, say things- Yeah
that aren't true, but I'm gonna tell the
truth and I got the facts to back me up.
Oh, I'm not getting much
traction here." Well…
Yeah, no, uh, we're
getting plenty of traction.
I mean, I compare it to the situation
today compared to 30 years ago.
Okay.
And you gotta recognize
the strides we've made.
Okay?
I mean, I remember…
I mean, you know, not excusing what's
going on right now, but I remember where
there, where there were no alternatives.
There was no political a- alternatives.
But it was that long, hard fight, uh,
that political capital that was, uh,
built and earned, and we have a situation
today politically in Canada where, uh,
we're, we're fairly well-placed, I mean,
on- once we elect a new government.
Mm-hmm.
So what are the most common questions
that are coming into the NFA?
Wow.
Okay.
Um, yeah.
W- lately, uh, obviously the
situation with OIC firearms.
Mm.
Um, as you know, uh, this whole program
was extremely badly communicated.
Poorly conceived, badly communicated.
Mm.
Nobody, you know… "Is my gun on
the list?" Well, go to the website
and go through all those pages
of guns that are banned- Right
and, you know, the, the eyes glaze over.
People are not firearms experts, you know?
I got a call f- I got a call from a
guy saying, uh, "You know, I think
my gun, uh, is affected by order and
counsel. It's a variant of a variant of
a variant. I phoned, uh, the firearms
program and, uh, they told me it wasn't."
Mm.
"Because it's not on the list."
And I'm going, "Uh, that,
that doesn't sound right.
What kind of gun do you have?" "Well,
I've got this, this, and this." "Okay.
So, uh, look up the FRT." Uh,
and it's like, nope, your gun
is definitely, uh, on the list.
Mm.
Okay?
So people are getting, uh, uh, confusing
messages when they contact firearm center.
Uh, they're getting wrong answers,
and it, it, it really undermines,
uh, uh, faith in the entire process.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe that's a good thing.
I mean, if they're that incompetent.
But, I mean, again, if you call
National Firearms Association, you're
gonna get, uh, the straight goods.
Mm.
Because that's we're in…
what we're in the business of.
I… Firearms laws are
extremely confusing.
Mm.
I think, I think deliberately.
But, uh, you know, we, we
deal with this every day.
Uh, we have to advise people on what
they're legally obligated to do, what
they're not obligated to do, courses
of action going forward, and things
like compliance and that sort of thing.
And we're still dealing with, uh, uh,
the fallout from legislation of, you
know, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago, okay?
Mm-hmm.
Because that hasn't been decided yet.
So I still, I still run into guns that,
uh, you know, were, were prohibited, uh,
you know, in the '90s, and it's like Uh,
e- especially with things like estates.
And as you know, estates
are extremely complicated.
Sure.
Uh, especially now because of the,
uh, freeze on handgun transfers.
I mean, and, uh, again, that's deliberate
because, uh, most people, you know, uh,
if, if, if they don't understand the
law, what's the first thing they do?
The, uh, the widow, you know- Mm-hmm.
She gets rid of them.
Yeah.
"Hello, police?" Right.
"Come pick this up."
And that's what they count on.
But there are a lot of very extensive
firearms collections in Canada
that are completely devalued now.
And again, this is a
property rights issue.
How dare they?
How dare they do that to people's
property, especially when it becomes
part of their res- their estate, and
they should realize the full amount.
Well, you can still export
them to the United States.
Well, guess what?
Even if you can-
Not all
…
not all, but even if you can,
by the time you get them there-
Yeah … with the fees involved-
You're getting pennies on the dollar
…
you're getting pennies on the dollar
because, hey, Canadian firearms are,
you know, hey, they're unwanted.
They're unneeded in the- Sure … US.
They got plenty of guns.
They,
they got enough themselves.
E- exactly.
A- and so if you, you export the,
uh, the collection down there, you're
not really, uh, you're, you're not
really realizing the full value.
And I think- And
they've got some strict rules about what
can be, uh, exported, well, not exported
from Canada, but imported into the States.
They have some strict rules on-
Very much so
…
and drop tests that need to be met, which
some guns that we have in Canada that were
legal for us to have that they couldn't
have there or, you know, certain date f-
dates that they were made or whatever.
E- exactly, and it's like, okay, this
gun can go to the United States, but
eh, sorry, it can't go to California.
Yeah, it's not a
pan- … it's not a panacea.
It's not, "Oh, just ship to the
States," like everyone thinks.
They got lots of guns.
Well, every state's different, too.
E- e- e- exactly, and
that can really affect it.
And, uh, a- a- again, i- i- it's
an assault on pr- on, on property.
Uh, they don't care because frankly,
this government doesn't care about,
uh, property rights, uh, at all.
What, what were the questions you'd
get prior to, let's say, the handgun
freeze and the OIC- Prohibitions.
What were the most common
questions you'd get?
I,
I, I think in National Farms
Association, estates, number one.
Estates,
yeah.
I, I mean, um, the type of information
or instruction that they get from
CFE, uh, CFP is often very confusing.
Sure.
Um, and it's, and it's, it's not helpful.
I mean, they're not there to help you.
Yeah.
I mean, uh, uh, ideally they
would like you just to call the
police and turn the gun in, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, so estate law with firearms, uh,
uh, educating, uh, executors and power
of attorney- Mm-hmm … uh, very much
so about the process of what they have
to do, 'cause it, again, it's not easy,
'cause there's all kinds of, uh, authori-
authorizations and vetting necessary.
Mm-hmm.
Um-
But you guys have put together, uh, a, a
guide for people to be able to do that.
That, that's right.
We do have a guide.
It's a plain language guide.
It's a step-by-step plain language guide
for executors and power of attorney.
You find yourself in that situation,
contact us, we'll send you.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and, uh, i- i- at least you'll
be, uh, uh, uh, better armed
going forward in the process of
dealing with the firearms program.
Uh, things about, about firearms
classifications, uh, and I, I was
speaking earlier about, uh, guns
that were restricted and prohibited
under previous legislation.
Guess what?
They're all still out there.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
And every once in a while, they,
they pop up, and it, it's like,
uh, and especially working i-
in the firearms industry, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, i- in a, in, in a licensed firearms
business, uh, especially in a major city
like Vancouver, um, you know, you get
people coming in, "Yeah, Dad died, and
he had this, this, and this," you know?
Mm-hmm.
"And can you tell me, you know, wh-
i- i- if it, if it's legal or not?"
And, uh, okay, that's, that's okay.
That's regular, and it's like,
oh, look at this little gem.
And you have to ask, "Okay, uh, do
you have the registration for this?"
Mm.
"
I don't think it was ever registered."
Sure.
And, "Well, what can I do with
this?" And I'm going, "What?
Well, b- first of all, you're
committing an offense right now by
being pos- in possession of this."
Right, and the criminal consequences
for these things are, are severe.
Ex- exactly, right?
All I did was try to deal
with my dad's estate.
Mm-hmm.
If he didn't register it, that was on him.
Right.
Why are you doing this to me?
Right.
Okay?
So they, they go back into the woodwork.
Mm-hmm.
So, uh, the majority of the firearms
that, uh, in the early 1990s that
were, first of all, demanded to, for
registration were not registered.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
They never came in, and there was
a very narrow window there where
you could do that and potentially
become grandfathered, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, PCs introduced that.
Uh, very shortly afterwards the Liberals
were elected, and eh, that's it.
Right.
We're not … If you didn't register
it by this date, you can't do it now.
So all of, all of those guns are out
there, and they're, they're in the
woodwork, they're in attics, they're in
ba- in basements, they're under beds-
Mm-hmm … that sort of thing, and
there's no pathway to legality for them-
Mm-hmm
…
which is a big problem.
Yeah, it is.
Uh, so 25, 32 caliber handgun,
short-barreled, you know, 105
millimeter or less, right?
Um, 104 millimeter, 105 millimeter.
Um-
Yeah
…
they're prohibited.
Can't have them.
But they say, "Okay, some of you
guys, you got them, you own them,
you keep them, 'cause I know you're
gonna squawk. We won't take them
from you. We'll grandfather you."
If, if you re-register it.
Right.
Oh, yeah.
Uh, that was a big problem too, because
a lot of people didn't get that memo.
It was like, "I already
got a registration. Why do
I have to re-register it?"
You know why they did that?
Tell me.
Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna guess here.
I'm gonna guess they asked for a
re-registration, 'cause they didn't
know, and their systems weren't up to
date, and they lost registrations, right?
Well, uh, uh, a- a- absolutely.
I mean, it, it
was- S- same with the 2020
re-registration that happened.
Remember that?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it, it was
like, um, uh, they knew.
I mean, they, they collect
this data for years.
They were doing it for decades, and
it would just go into a file cabinet.
And, uh, and it, it, it w- it was never
used for any public safety purpose.
Mm-hmm.
"Hey, we got a reg- uh, a, a, a record
of a registration for this handgun,
and we, we solved the crime because
of that." It didn't happen, okay?
It just went into a file, and,
uh, people forgot about it.
But, uh-
Well, th- those guns
were cheap, by and large.
A lot of them were cheap.
Saturday night specials, we'll give
that term to them, and people'd go out,
and they'd spend a little bit of money.
They'd get themselves a gun-
Yeah … and they were registered.
And so what way- I actually,
uh- … can we wipe off the
majority of the registered firearms?
I actually spoke to one of the RCMP
techs who was involved in that process.
Okay.
And, uh, I said, "Why did they do
it this way?" And he said, "Hey,
you know, basically, they wanted to
ban half of the handguns in Canada."
That's it.
Okay.
And the easiest way to do it was that.
Okay, how can we do this?
Orders come down from Ottawa.
Ban, uh, prohibited, uh, c- uh,
half of the handguns in Canada.
What criteria can we use?
Okay, uh, first of all,
we can do it by caliber.
Hmm.
25, 32 caliber, these are all, the- these
are Saturday night special calibers.
They're not useful for target shooting.
Um-
Except if you're in the Olympics, right?
Well, ex- that's what,
we'll make an exception.
Okay.
One cancels the other.
But I mean, um, yeah, so
okay, 25, 32 calibers.
Well, that's only a quarter
of the handguns in Canada.
It's not enough.
Well, I guess we could
do it by barrel length.
Okay.
Uh, if, uh, the barrel's, uh,
four, four inches or under, then
we can prohibit them that way, too.
But there's a lot of target pistols,
uh, and collector's p- pieces that,
uh, have that criteria, right?
Mm-hmm.
They say, "Well, too bad. They can keep
them, but, uh, nobody else can have them."
Right.
So it was literally,
uh, a, a shopping list.
Come up with a way we can do this.
Come up with criteria, uh, based on
ignorance and, and, and falsehoods.
Cana- people don't understand firearms.
They're not gonna care.
Yeah.
And plus, we've got a majority government,
and we can pass any legislation we want.
So there was a clause, by virtue of
my birthdate, I couldn't get- Yeah
a short-barrel 25 or 32 caliber handgun.
However, I could inherit one.
And back in the day, they said- 12, seven.
Right.
They said, "Well, you know, the person
has to die." Well, it doesn't say
anywhere the person has to die for
you to inherit it, so did a test case.
Sure enough, inherited
a little Walther PPK.
Uh, number of years go by, and
I've got this little 12, seven
inherited on, on the back, and-
My next license comes in, and I got full
short barrel .25 through .32 caliber.
I
remember that.
Right.
So I, I'm like, okay, and this is during
the process when I'm in an eight-year
battle with- … a rogue firearms
officer and a police officer who ended up
getting criminally charged and convicted-
Yeah
…
um, doing shady, shady crap, which is why
I got that apology letter and an- Right
undisclosed sum and all the rest.
This happened during that time.
I'm like, "They're trying to trap
me. They're trying to…" So I
documented everything, and I'm calling-
Sure … them up, and I'm recording
the calls, and I'm emailing them.
It's, "Mr. Bader, we are the RCMP
firearms program. We do not make
mistakes." It was the exact quote.
I'm like, "Okay.
So I can go and purchase…" "Yes,
you can." So I went, and I bought,
and sold- Yeah … and purchased, and
I mean, "We do not make mistakes."
I brought it to your attention.
I showed you the process.
You chastised me.
Okay, fair enough.
Like, I, I didn't want to be the
one coming out and saying, like,
uh, uh, alarming the bell, and,
"Oh, you did something wrong.
Quick, fix it." But-
When it, when, when it comes
to the Firearms Act, that's
the right thing to do.
Well, what I did is I alarmed
it in a certain way for myself
individually- Yeah … in, in a way.
Fair enough.
"We don't make mistakes."
Okay, here we go.
Yeah.
So bought and sold, and then they're
like, number of years went by- Yeah
until they finally said, "Oh, yeah,
it was a computer glitch, and, uh,
it was you and, like, I don't know,
86 other people in Canada," or-
Yeah … what, it was a small number.
They started revoking registrations
and telling people to get-
Four-year-old be a criminal.
Yeah, exactly.
Hold on a second.
You authorized this.
That's it.
Th- why did you do that?
I'm like, "Well, hold on a
second. Paper trail here."
Exactly.
You authorized it.
That's why I did it.
Right.
"
Oh, um, that shouldn't have happened."
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah, you should've known better, and
I've had that one used too before.
And it, it's funny.
It always happens that way, and it, you
know, during the, uh, reclassification
of rimfire rifle magazines.
Hmm.
And, uh, we had s- started hear
rumors they're going, going to
do this, and of course Polly,
and, uh, was agitating for it.
Hmm.
It's like they, they, you know,
they, they have these, these t-
these, these big clips and, you know,
because, and they're exempted because
they're t- uh, .22 or something.
We need to ban these things.
Hmm.
So the order comes down from Ottawa.
RCMP find a way to prohibit
these, these things, okay?
And, uh, of course the, uh, reason
they used was, well, there are
handgun versions of these, these,
uh, rimfire rifles, so therefore we
will call them handgun magazines and-
You're, you're talking about
the Ruger 10/22 magazines.
And the
Mossberg 715.
And the 715, right.
That's right.
We'll talk about the 7 to
15 after this, but go on.
Okay.
So, uh, find a way to do it.
Okay, well, uh, both of these firearms
have a handgun version that is available
in Canada, so therefore, uh, they have
to be restricted to the 10-shot limit.
Right.
And of course, the way they did it was
very, very haphazard for the number of
magazines, and they're still out there.
Um-
Now, do they do that through
law or through policy?
Uh, uh-
Not legislation,
not regulation.
RCMP has, has a policy- Memo … of,
of, of, uh, proper classification.
Well, it was, it was not, it was, uh, not,
uh, classified properly in the beginning.
We've reviewed it, now we're going
to, uh, classify it properly.
Okay?
So it, it, it's not a regulation,
it's just a, uh, uh, it, it,
it's just a, a review of policy.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
So anyways, uh, and we started
to get rumors about this, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, nobody knew what was going on.
You couldn't get any answers from
CFP, and then, uh, that memo leaked-
Mm-hmm
…
from, uh, I think it was E Division
RCMP saying, "Okay, this is happening,
and this is how you should treat them
if, if, if you find, find yourself
in, uh, involved in an investigation."
And that, you know, in the age of
the internet, you know, boom, it's
out there, and everybody's going,
you know, "My God." And, uh, anyways,
but it creates all kinds of problems.
Mm.
Immediately, uh, at Lever Arms, we
start getting calls from people.
"It looks like RCMP is gonna do this. Can
you modify my m- my magazines for me?"
Mm.
All right?
And we're going- We're
not sure that we can.
Mm.
Okay?
Because you have to be
authorized to do that.
So anyways, uh, shortly after that, uh,
you know, we had an inspection, and,
uh, asked one of the firearms officers,
"Look, this, this has happened here,"
showed him the memo, and said, uh, uh,
"Can we be authorized to modify magazines
for people to the, uh, the legal limit?"
Yeah.
And, uh, looked at it and said,
uh, "We'll get back to you."
'
Cause that'd be a prohibited device now.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you have to get,
uh, s- anything, anything, uh, with a pro-
prohibited firearm or prohibited device,
you have to be authorized to do it.
You know, you can't just
assume that, hey, it's- Sure
you know.
Uh, a couple weeks later he, uh, got
back to us and said, uh, "Nope, you're
not, uh, you're not gonna be authorized
to modify prohibited devices." And I'm
going, "Well, how, how can people comply?"
Mm-hmm.
That's your problem.
That's something a lot
of people don't realize.
Like, let's say deactivating or even
destroying a firearm as an individual-
Yeah
and people listening to this, I'm not
a lawyer, Blair's not a lawyer, but
as an individual- Yeah … we'll put
that caveat out there, individuals
are able to do that lawfully.
When you take it to a business,
and a business needs to have the
special conditions on its business
license in order to do that.
Otherwise- Yeah … you
jeopardize the whole business.
Yeah, e- e- exactly, and, uh, you
know, especially with a, uh, registered
firearm or previously registered
firearm, uh, there's a process of,
uh, uh, deregistration that, uh,
that, that is involved, and you
have to have a verifier on staff.
You have to be a verifier in order- Yeah
to do this, gunsmith verifier.
So it, it, it, it may sound easy, and
especially with the current gun grab,
I think a lot of people are going,
"Well, I'll just destroy it." Well,
you better be very careful about that,
or, "I'll just deactivate it myself.
I'll put a, I'll put a rod in
the barrel." Well, guess what?
That may not stand up to spec.
That was one of the interesting
ones too because they wrote up
a, uh, a list of guidelines.
Yeah.
Nothing in law, but they used the
guidelines, and then they started
holding these guidelines, like you have
to meet these guidelines- Yeah … in
order for it to be deemed deactivated.
And one of them was you had to
have a, um- a solid steel rod of
equal or harder hardness- Yeah
of the barrel.
Well, barrels aren't a hard metal to
begin with, and, uh, it's gotta be a
blind hole, and it's gotta be welded in.
Yeah.
And so people would stick a rod down the
barrel, and they'd weld it on both ends.
Well, that's not a blind hole.
That bore is open on both ends, right?
Yeah.
So, uh, I, I mean, it was pretty goofy.
And actually, right where you're
sitting right now, I had the, um, uh,
registrar in here, flew in from Ottawa.
Yeah.
What, what was her name?
Um, but we had, we had this
discussion, and this is when it
used to be an office in here.
And of course, it's a firearms business.
We've got cameras everywhere,
and they record- Sure
audio and video.
And so she comes in,
and she's like, "I can't
really talk.
I- I'll just kinda write.
I'll just give you hand signals."
I'm like, I'm like, uh, of course,
my- I'm like, "Can you actually not
really talk, or is this 'cause you
don't wanna get recorded on here?"
But, uh, she says, um, "Okay, so these
guidelines, does it have to meet them?"
"Yes." "What if it exceeds it?" "Well,
actually, if it exceeds it, it might
still not be deemed deactivated." "But
what if it falls below, but it'll never
go bang?" "Well, well, maybe it could
be then, right?" And we played this
game back and forth, and- Yeah … um,
essentially it was over that issue.
I had, I had two guns which
were identical to each other.
They're, uh, a couple of Berettas- Yeah
… um, 92Fs, w- and they were disabled
or made inoperable for the firearm
safety course training, the restricted
course, in the i- exact identical way.
But one was done before, whenever
it was, May 2005, and the other
one was done after May 2005.
And they had a b- bulletin on
their website saying, "Anything
deemed deactivated prior to this
bulletin will stay deactivated- Yeah
unless it can readily be made to
fire, and anything afterwards needs
to meet our guidelines." Yeah.
And so I got these two identical
guns, and one was done before,
and one was done after.
One they called deactivated, and
the other one they called disabled,
which required registration.
Right.
Right.
Oh my God.
So-
Bureaucracy- Right
… wonderful thing, right?
And this sort of ties into the,
uh, the, the current OIC gun grab
thing, and, uh, when they first did
this, they didn't really envision,
uh, what was going to happen, okay?
Mm-hmm.
They just thought big flashy gun
ban thing, Justin on the news
saying, "We are banning so m- the,
you know, this many firearms."
Yeah.
And of course, they didn't think it
through, so they just introduced the OICs.
Okay, uh, the owners are, uh, the owners
are authorized to be in possession until
they're given instructions on what to
do, uh, turn them in- Yeah … whatever.
And, uh, but there's all kinds
of day-to-day things that affect
people with firearms, right?
So immediately, the problems start.
You know, oh, geez, I
got this OIC firearm.
And there are two categories of, uh,
Order in Council firearms, uh, previously
registered OIC firearms- Yeah … things
like AR-15s and short-barrel rifles, and
previously unregistered- Mm-hmm … OIC
firearms, which is everything else, okay?
So anyways, um, they do this,
and, uh, of course people are…
And we would get these calls at
NFA going, um, "I have a, I have an
OIC firearm. I'm moving. How do I
move with this firearm?" Well, you
gotta have authorization to do this.
Mm. Right?
So contact CFO.
You go, "I'm moving on this
date, I'm moving with these
handguns a- and an OIC firearm."
Mm-hmm.
Uh, uh, "Can I do this? Is
it lawful for me to do this?"
And they d- like, they couldn't
come up with an answer.
No.
You know- … just between you
and me, just go ahead and do it.
The, it, it, it is so, the things that
people are being told by the RCMP.
Yeah,
verbally,
right?
Verbally, yeah.
"Oh, you know, we don't really
have it, but if you go do it, I
can't see there being a problem."
What?
A- a- and you gotta know that
there's voiceover IP phones, and,
and everyone's using these things.
And, like, everything's gets
tracked and recorded nowadays.
Well, more importantly, if you just go
ahead and do it, and all of a sudden
you have a problem, and you're s-
you're standing in front of a police
officer going, "You have to have an
authorization to do this," or CRN.
But the kind
person on the phone said-
Yeah, but- … "They're so nice."
… Cheryl at, uh, Cheryl at the f- at, at
the firearms office told me I could do it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, you know, the, that's not lawful.
That's right.
So, and, you know, people, it didn't
know what to do, and, and especially
things like you couldn't be in
possession of the firearm anymore.
I'm, I'm moving out of the country.
I've got this gun.
What do I do?
Can't tell you.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
I'd love to buy it from you,
but I can't do that legally.
So, um, what was the only alternative?
Hello, police.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, which, you know, I, I, I figure
that, uh, that was probably deliberate.
But anyways, it was a big problem, and it
festered for two years, two years before
CFOs finally had enough and, and, and went
to the CFP and said, "Look, people are…
The, th- this is routine stuff." Yeah.
"P- people move every day." That's right.
"People change." You know, sometimes
they can't store the gun at the house.
They have to store it somewhere else.
Sure.
And that has to be authorized,
and it can't be right now.
We don't have a policy.
F- so finally, they, uh, came up with a
policy two years after the fact, basically
saying, "Yes, we will authorize you.
You will have written authorization
to, uh, uh, either, uh, uh, move-
Mm … with, uh, your, your OIC
firearm or, uh, or store it at a, at
another, uh, location, alternative
storage, temporary storage." Sure.
"And you can store them with another
similarly licensed, uh, firearms
license holder or at a business
that is authorized for storage."
Mm-hmm.
So that solved that.
It solved part of it, but the fact
of the matter, that only applies to
previously registered OIC firearms.
Mm-hmm.
There is no authorization available for
previously unregistered OIC firearms.
Well, I wonder, I wonder what the bones
of that authorization is, if it's just
another, "Oh, yeah, we'll do it" policy
thing, because if you're transporting
a firearm, you have to be licensed for
that class of firearm as well, right?
So it's, uh, either under a business
license or your own personal license.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not, are you gonna license all those
people as prohibited firearms owners now?
Well, that takes legislation.
Right.
Like, that's what I mean.
I'm, I'm wondering, speculating
out loud, that the authorization
that's being provided has no
bearing in law to begin with
I'd agree with that
that, that's my speculation.
Now, you brought up variant before,
which is kind of an interesting one-
Yeah … because I don't think the
courts were able to, uh, uh, determine
what the word variant actually meant.
I know that was part of the,
um, um, uh, the last OIC battle.
I was, uh, cross-examined on my report
that I put forward, and, uh- Yeah
uh, we talked about the, uh, the Mossberg
Plinkster in 715T, and we talked about
the word variant, and the justices
and judges there relied on my ev-
evidence and information in, in their
opinion that came out, 'cause there's
nothing out there that contradicted it.
Yeah.
But I, I don't think anything
ever came down to actually
pinpoint what a variant is.
No.
No, I mean, uh, uh, no legal
definition- No … definitely.
It's just a basic understanding that they
operate, uh, that they operate off of.
Right.
And, uh, th- how do you figure it out?
It's gotta go to court, you know?
Court decision.
And then they say, "Well, I mean,
look at this FRT, firearms reference
table." "This thing says it's illegal."
Yeah.
And they say, "Well, hold on,
how do you make those FRTs?
'Cause this other one- Yeah … you said
here, it said it wasn't." "Oh, don't
look at that one that said it wasn't."
Yeah.
"
And really, these FRTs
have no bearing in law.
It's just our opinion."
That's right, yeah.
"
Well, hold on.
Th- this is your testimony.
This is what you're gonna say,
that they have no bearing in law?"
"Yeah, yeah, that's right." "Okay.
Well then, why are we relying
them as if they have some
sort of bearing in law here?"
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the… well, politics.
That's basically what it is.
So we got two different
guns, basically the same gun.
The- Yep … the Plinkster and the 715T.
I think the Ts are tactical or something.
Yeah.
Now, one has a clamshell stock that
goes around it- Yeah … that makes
it look black and ugly-looking.
Yeah.
The other one doesn't, and it's, you
know, a friendly little Plinkster.
Yep.
One's non-restricted.
You can own it.
The other one, completely prohibited.
The second you put that
scary stock around it, oop-
Yeah
prohibited.
Yeah, exactly.
Why?
Because it looks like an AK-47.
And I- Looks like
…
and I think that, so we talk
about variant, and we talk about
the aesthetics of firearms.
Yeah.
I think that's the crux of it.
Honestly, I think the crux of all
of this is, "That looks scary-
Yep
…
let's use that as an example
for what we're getting rid of."
Yeah, uh, largely, and I think
it, a lot of this gets caught up
in the ideology of the, uh, civil
disarmament lobby in Canada too.
All guns are bad, uh, but some
guns are, are worse than others.
Why?
Yeah.
Well, they look this way, and they
encourage a certain mentality, and we
don't like the type of people who would
own that type of gun, and Americans own
those types of guns, and we don't want
Canadians to own those types of guns.
Yeah.
So it has nothing to
do with public safety.
There's, there's no
demonstrable reason for this.
Um, you know, for example, AR-15
rifles, uh, are very rarely,
if ever, used in offenses.
Sure.
Okay?
But they're the first ones targeted.
Why?
Because of the politics of the situation.
Yeah, I th- I think, I
think you nailed it there.
I think essentially from both sides,
firearms owners and governments
that would want to ban them, there's
a perception of competency- Hmm
… around an aesthetic of a firearm.
Yeah.
And gun people will be like, "Look
at this. I got this gun that looks
really Gucci, and I'm gonna be more
competent because of the aesthetic."
And the people who'd want to ban them
would say, "Oh, we can't have those kind
of guns in their hands- Yeah … because,
like, what, what if they went and did
something and revolted?" Whatever, right?
Sure.
I, I think that's, I think that's what
the OIC is in a nutshell, and I'd, I'd
encourage the audience to, uh, come up
with a rebuttal or, uh, maybe, maybe
something that, uh, is a bit deeper.
But I think it, it basically circles
around perception of competency-
Yeah
…
and aesthetic associated.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, you know, it's, it, it's just
unfortunate that, uh, it get, it get,
gets- caught up in a political debate.
I mean, um, i- if firearms, and I, I, I
don't know going forward into the future.
I, you know, I used to believe that
there was a time that we, we could have,
uh, w- we could come up with firearms,
we could write firearms legislation
that was based in reality, and- Yeah
widely recognized and, uh, a- as being
so, and widely s- accepted as such.
But due to the politicization of
this, which goes right into the,
you know, or right in- i- into the,
you know, the labs of RCP forensics,
I, I, I, I don't even know anymore.
Because the process is,
is, is not transparent.
Okay?
It's, it's not founded on
any sort of, uh, principle.
And you look at, this stuff
winds up in courts- Yeah … and
judges can't even figure it out.
Why was this gun banned?
"Well, we deemed it, uh, unsuitable for,
uh, sporting purposes." Based on what?
That's an interesting one.
Okay.
So, I, that's a false
argument right there.
Yeah.
They- they talk about sporting
purposes, and by sporting purposes,
hunters would say, "Well, this isn't
sporting," despite legislation calling
it sporting at the provincial level.
Yeah.
We'll put all the semantics aside
there, but they say, "Is this
rifle suitable for hunting?" Right?
Yeah.
If it, if it's not suitable for hunting,
what do you need this thing for?
Hm.
And, and I think that whole
thing is a very false framing.
A- a- absolutely, especially, uh, and
that was the original argument for the,
uh, uh, restricting of AR-15 rifles.
I mean- That this, this, this
rifle is not suitable for hunting.
Um, uh, uh, the, the magazine does not
conform to hunting, hunting regulations.
The round is not suitable for
hunting, you know, the 556
round, you can't hunt with that.
Well, you can, number one.
No, no, no, it just
blows the animal apart.
A lot of this was brought, you know,
the, the falsehoods from the Vietnam War.
Sure.
You know, about the- It goes
so fast.
I-
it's, yeah, it just blows the a-
you know, I've, you know, I've heard
this, and p- people based, uh, based
the restriction on their bigotries.
Um, but there was no basis for
it, it was just po- politics.
Yeah, but it sounds reasonable
when you person says, "Well-
Yeah
…
you can't use this thing for hunting.
Like, why would you use this
for hunting?" But for anyone to,
who isn't in the firearms realm-
Right
…
like, anything can be used for hunting.
Like, a 22 is not suitable
for hunting moose.
It could, it could, like, because I've
heard stories, I've talked to people
who've used a 22 on moose and, but- Uh,
it's perfectly suitable for grouse- Sure
right?
416 Rigby, if you're going
out after big game, suitable.
Use that on a rabbit, you're no good.
So what is suitability?
It's got nothing to do with the aesthetic.
It's got everything to do with what it's
being used for, and it'd be like saying-
Exactly
… "
You tell me what knife
isn't suitable for cooking.
You tell me what car isn't suitable for
commuting." Like, it might be ridiculous
to drive around in, uh, Lamborghini,
some race car to, to commute around- Yeah
… but doesn't mean it's not suitable for it.
It'll take you from point
A to point B just fine.
Well, exactly, and getting back to
AR-15 rifles, we don't like this rifle.
We don't like the rounded fires.
It's not suitable for hunting.
Well, you can get one in any
caliber you want these days.
Sure.
Okay?
308.
Yeah.
You know, uh, the larger calibers,
uh, they make, they make them in
hunting calibers, and they are used
for hunting all over the world.
Sure do.
Why not Canada?
What is differ- what is
different about the animals here?
Well, it all gets caught up in the
politics and attitudes that, uh, are very,
very, uh, unfortunate because it af- it
affects people's rights and property.
Well, so much of it surrounds around the
aesthetic and the gun- Mm-hmm … and
I think both sides get stuck into this.
Yep.
The anti-gun people, they look at the
gun as evil, and the pro-gun crowd,
they'll look at the gun as for what it
is, as a tool that you can use- Yeah
that could be used for eagle- evil
in the same way that- Sure … a
vehicle could be used for evil.
Any number of things.
Sure.
Um, but I also find that, uh,
when you start trying to defend
against these false, um- arguments.
Yeah.
Like, i- is that a
suitable gun for hunting?
Well, that's not the argument to have.
That's not the, the litmus test, because
we don't have something here that
says- Mm … this is and this isn't,
just in the same way that there's no
knife that's not suitable for cooking.
Yeah.
Depends on what you're cooking.
Right.
It depends on what you have, and if
that's the only knife you have, it's
probably better than using a spoon, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
But, uh, uh, a lot of the
politics, uh, certainly previously
have been, uh, couched in that.
It's been useful for the civil disarmament
lobby to do that, especially when you
get into big, uh, uh, media-inspired,
media-created controversies over-
Right … this stuff, right?
Because, uh, you know, uh, they're
marketing a commodity too, and, uh,
hey, you know, uh, to them, uh, just
like Hollywood, guns are sexy, guns are
exciting, guns are, you know, interesting.
Uh, and they're going to use that,
uh, uh, any number of ways, uh, not
entirely legitimately all the time.
So how does the average NFA member
have that conversation with somebody
else who says, "I don't know, I
don't have any guns. I think… Why
not get rid of the guns?" And how
do they have that gun conversation
without making the gun the crux?
Uh, it depends on the individual.
I mean, there's some people
out there who you're just not
gonna reach, and that's fine.
All right?
But i- as long as you can bring them to a
point where they respect, uh, your, your
rights, your culture, and your property.
It's like, "I hate these things.
I wish they were gone.
Nobody should have them." Yeah. "But I
understand that you are, are law-abiding.
You, you, you are licensed.
I understand what you had to do
to do that, and I understand that
this is your property, and that
should be respected." Mm. Okay?
Number one. "I would never own that.
Uh, I don't agree with it, but
yes, I, I, I, I do understand
that that's your experience."
Number two, education about firearms.
A lot of these people who, you know,
will parrot, you know, the, uh,
government line, the media line on
it- You got a, they, they got a little
interest going on there Yep Right?
It's like this thing is, uh, I, I,
I scare- I'm scared by this thing.
I am, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm very
frightened by its presence, but,
you know, I'm also interested.
So, uh, it- you know,
take the myth out of it.
Mm.
You know, guns are tools just
like anything else, all right?
And once people become familiar with
them, they lose their, they lose their
fear, um, they lose their, uh, a lot of
the misconceptions they have about it.
So th- that's the education part.
Sure.
Okay?
Um, there's a lot of people who got
in- involved in, uh, in gun sports and,
you know, the culture of guns who were
absolutely opposed to at the beginning.
I think, uh, our, one of our, uh,
uh, acquaintances, uh, Professor Gary
Mauser- Yes … was one of those people.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
He, uh, it w- back, uh, 34 years ago
when this controversy got going, he t-
you know, he was a professor at Simon
Fraser U- University, and he said,
"What, what's going on here?" Mm-hmm.
"I don't really understand what's
going on here, so I'm gonna get
involved and I'm gonna educate myself."
You know, he, coming from a v- a, a,
a background where he, he d- did not
use firearms, and firearms were not
part of his family experience, he
thought, "Well, you know, I'm take,
I'm gonna take an academic interest in
this and see what's going on." Yeah.
And he did, and eventually
he became a gun guy.
Yeah.
So, uh, you know, there, there's that too.
And I think that's going on now, and I
think it has been going on for many years.
I, I remember a, a time when firearms
ownership was kind of hidden away
because, you know, a lot of people
thought that if we just hide this away,
if we're not overt about it, they'll
forget about us and leave us alone.
Mm.
Okay?
Mm.
And no, that does not work.
Yeah, that was, that was a common
mentality that I saw time and time again.
Yeah.
"Well, it's not really affecting
me, and I'll just be quiet." Yeah.
"It'll go by." And y- all around
the world, that's changing.
All around the- I, I think so, yeah
… world people are starting to speak
up and say, "Well, hold on a second.
Let's, let's base some
laws in reality here."
Well, especially these days.
I mean, it's gotten to be a v- a very
much more dangerous, uh, violent world.
Mm-hmm.
Even our world here in C- in, in Canada.
Mm.
I mean, if you look at
what's going on in, in- It's
got nothing to do with the guns.
No.
Mm.
And guess what?
I mean, you can ban everything you want.
The guns are still gonna be there.
That's right.
They should make mur- murder illegal.
Like, really, that would make sense.
If they made murder
illegal, that would stop it.
Well, I heard they did that, but-
Ugh … it's not working, so I think
we need- … to make it double illegal.
Double illegal, yes.
Okay?
I'm… You know, um, y- yeah, and
I, I think attitudes in, uh, on
firearms in Canada have changed.
They've changed over the
last, uh, couple, few decades.
I think a lot of people in Canada are
going, "Look, this- we, we, we know
w- where these guns are coming from,
the guns that are being used in crime.
We know why they're being used in crime.
Um, and we want something done about that.
We do not want- firearms taken
off of law-abiding people.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna talk about, 'cause we've
talked a lot about the OIC prohibited
firearms, let's talk about the handgun
freeze- Yeah … which a lot, a lot of
people look at as a handgun ban because
essentially that's what they've done.
They've gone out and banned the
handguns, but, but that's not the
terminology or the words they're using.
It's freeze, which implies it can
be unfrozen, and I've worked with
a good number of people who've
bought and sold handguns during
this freeze, 'cause there are legal
provisions that allow them to do that.
Yeah.
And before we talk about it,
I'll put one q- another plug.
If you're listening to this and this
is interesting to you- Check the link
in the description if you want to be
able to download your guide in order to
understand more about an authorization
to carry, whether you qualify.
Yeah.
'Cause that also opens up handgun
purchasing- Yeah … and transferring.
Yeah, no, I've, I've been in, uh,
involved in a few of those already.
Mm-hmm.
Um, s- but it's very limited,
and it's very narrow.
And, uh, the fact of the matter
is there are, there are a lot
of handguns in Canada, okay?
There are a lot of registered handguns
in the, uh, the hands of licensed owners.
Uh, there are a lot of, uh, handgun
collectors in Canada- Right … with
very, very extensive collections, uh,
that would've, uh, represented hundreds
of thousands of dollars, uh, in potential
return to, uh, an estate, which is
usually the way it, it happened in Canada.
Dad died, and, uh, the estate
sold the guns and, and, uh,
realized the profits from it.
Mm-hmm.
But that's not happening now,
and it's very, very difficult,
uh, for a lot of people.
And in a lot of cases, it becomes, uh,
you know, the path of least resistance,
especially for widows, is, uh, hand
them in to the police, and that always
sort of happened in Canada, right?
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Because I don't know what the
law is, this is a problem, and
I don't wanna deal with it.
Yeah.
Um, some people were a little more
informed about it, and new steps
could be taken to- Mm-hmm … uh,
transfer the handguns and, uh, and,
and, uh, realize profit for it.
But, you know, in the case of
a, a, a, of a widow, uh, you
know, she's, she's shattered.
You know, her husband of like 50 years is
dead, and, uh, all of a sudden the police
are there saying, "Give us the gun."
Mm.
And what is she going to do?
Say no?
You know, "I am the executor- Right … of
the estate. I am authorized to be in
possession, and I will transfer this to
another firearms license holder." You
know, that's not gonna happen in the
majority cases, and people know that.
Yep.
Um, but as it stands today,
uh, yeah, it is possible to,
uh, transfer, uh, a handgun.
Uh, licensed firearms businesses
are, uh, certainly authorized to, uh,
take handguns into their inventories.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so if you, uh, feel that,
uh, your, your estate especially,
um, you can go that route.
Also, uh, Canada's National
Firearms Association has a new
program, the Save Firearms program.
Basically, if you find yourself
in a situation, especially if
you're an executor or power of
attorney, we can assist you, okay?
Uh, uh, NFA is a licensed
firearms business now.
Uh, we have storage for firearms.
We can store firearms.
Uh, we can hold
registrations for firearms.
So if you find yourself in a situation
where you can no longer hold, uh,
a registration for a handgun or,
or, or, or something, even, uh,
previous prohibited class firearms,
uh, not in most cases OIC firearms,
and I'll touch on that in a minute.
Mm-hmm.
But previous, uh, prohibited class
firearms, uh, things like, uh,
automatics, converted automatics-
Sure Uh, uh, semi-autos prohibited
by OIC- Yeah … that sort of thing.
We can take them into our
inventory, and that can prevent
them from being destroyed, turned
into the police and destroyed.
Is that included with an NFA
membership, or is that on top of?
There's a- Pro- … probably
be storage fee.
Yeah, there are fees
involved- Yeah … obviously.
Yeah.
But no, a membership is not required.
Huh.
You should make membership
requirement, because not only
that- It's- … but they'll, uh
…
I would… You know, y- you would think
that we would do that, but I mean,
people are in all kinds of situations
now, and, uh, especially today,
people are really hurting financially.
This is true.
Okay?
So we judge every case on its own merits.
Okay.
It's like, i- i- you know, uh,
is it within, uh, our interests
to take this firearm into our
inventory, to store this firearm?
And it could be for, you know, for a
short period, could be for a long period.
Mm.
Okay?
Uh, there's a lot of people who
found themselves in cases where
it's like, ah, I, you know, I
gotta, I gotta get rid of this gun.
I'll transfer it to NFA.
Uh, I'll relicense myself, and
maybe a couple years in the future
with a change of government-
Yeah … then I c- then I can hold
a registration for this thing again.
Mm-hmm.
So there's, there's that as well.
Unfortunately, and it
was… I, I, I, I hate this.
All of this sort of came to
fruition, and it was bad timing
around the time of the OICs.
Mm.
I thought, you know, and we had
dealt with this problem for years.
Sure.
Okay?
And r- really, really worked towards
getting that, uh, BFL and setting
up this program, and all of a
sudden, you know, 2020, boom, OIC.
And people are going, "What can I
do about this?" And, you know, we
started advertising and saying,
"Hey, this is what we can do- Sure
for you." And they assumed that
that included OIC firearms.
Okay.
I see where this is go- Yeah.
I,
yeah.
Yeah.
I, I thought you were saying,
"I hate to say this," 'cause I
thought people are looking at you
like you're trying to monopolize
on the OIC or something, but, uh-
Yeah, yeah, exactly, but
it- Did it transmit it that way?
No.
No.
It was bad timing.
Just bad timing.
It was just bad timing, and, uh,
you know, we'd get contacts, you
know, "Help me save my guns." And-
Got it
…
you would have to tell people, "Look,
we, we… You can't just send them to
NFA, and we're going to shield them
from the liberal gun grab," because
legally you can't do that, right?
Why?
Why?
Yeah.
Why?
Because if police come for
the gun, it, for example, if
the, uh, amnesty had ended-
Mm-hmm
…
and, uh, NFA was in possession of the gun,
and there's only one way, there's only one
way NFA could be in possession of the gun.
Uh, generally speaking, OIC firearms
cannot be transferred, they cannot be
stored elsewhere except previously,
uh, r- restricted, previously
registered OIC firearms with
authorization of the provincial CFO.
Okay, so it's the authorization
to transport that's present-
preventing the, um, NFA from taking
possession from the individual side.
Well,
well, no, uh, we can.
We can store previously
registered OIC firearms, okay?
Yeah.
We are authorized to do that with
authorization of provincial CFO.
Right.
So if you cannot be in poss- in
possession of, say, your AR-15 or
your short-barreled rifle, uh, you
can seek authorization from your CFO-
Sure
for temporary or alternative storage-
Sure
…
with National Firearms Association.
Okay.
But again, previously unregistered
OIC firearms, it's a gray area.
There's no authorization
available, so what do you do?
Oh, I'm gonna spitball here 'cause
I'm a solutions kind of guy.
Okay.
But what about NFA field agents
being listed under the NFA business
license and being covered through
the business transport, uh, permit?
Maybe a charge for them to go out
and physically have to pick 'em up
because that's not gonna be mailing
back and forth sort of thing.
But
the- Well, well, well, some are, but
I mean, uh, due to the logistics and
the geography of this country, uh,
most of the firearms are shipped.
They
do.
And
they have, they, they have to be shipped.
And once the authorization is, is,
is approved, uh, the firearm can
be shipped to, uh, our facilities,
and we will store the firearm.
But you can ship under
your own business license.
Yes.
Okay.
And so if a business, an NFA field agent
goes and picks it up, now it's under
NFA control, under NFA business license.
Yeah, if,
if, if that individual is, uh, listed on
the bus- on the business firearms license.
Right.
Now, bro, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just
spitballing, but it might- Yeah … might,
might be, might be an extra little
thing to be able to help the, uh-
Yeah.
No, I mean, and, you know, if this is
happening in whatever pro- province
concerned, great, fine, good.
But I mean- Mm-hmm … it's a huge
country, and people all over this country-
Sure … find themselves in this, in these
situations, so in, in those cases, the
firearm has to be packed up and shipped.
Okay.
But, uh, yeah, safe firearms, and a lot
of this is still evolving too, right?
So, uh, I always encourage people,
uh, if you have a problem with a
firearm, a registered firearm, uh,
that even a firearm you think you
may not be in compliance with it-
Mm-hmm
uh, contact us, and w- we'll, uh,
we'll give you a straight, real-world
answer on where you're standing.
We're not gonna couch it
in all kinds of this, that.
It's not gonna be like talking
to the firearms program.
Mm.
You're, you're talking to somebody who's
gonna say, "Look, this is what it is.
This is what your options are, and this is
what, this is not what your options are."
Right.
"And, uh, you have, uh, this way of going
forward to, uh, uh, com- uh, to be in
compliance or come back into compliance."
So I spent eight years fighting
the federal government-
Yep
…
and winning.
That's eight years of fight, and
you gotta dedicate yourself to that.
Yeah.
Spent eight years fighting a
rogue individual doing things
he shouldn't have been doing-
Yeah
and winning.
Got the apology letters, got the sums,
all the rest, but it takes a toll.
What toll has this taken
on you constantly fighting?
Boy, I, I don't really know
how to answer that question.
Uh, is there a toll?
I guess there is.
There, there was certain- certainly
a toll on Rick Igerich, wasn't there?
And I gotta tell you, that
guy, um, he never let up.
Uh, once he became, uh, president
of NFA, it was go, go, go, go.
All right.
I mean, he was, he was attending
events, he was going to gun shows,
he was traveling internationally,
uh, uh, representing us.
Uh, NFA is a member of the
World Forum on the Future of
Sport Shooting Activities, WFSA.
And, uh, this is the, uh, international
group that looks at, uh, uh, firearms
laws and legislation, what may be coming
down the road, especially from the UN.
And he would represent
us at those meetings.
Um, and, uh, it was just the
day-to-day stuff that, uh
I, I, I started to see it, you know,
um, Rick's, Rick's really looking tired.
Rick's starting to
really sound frustrated.
Mm.
And perfectly understandable because
we're all in that situation, right?
I mean, we- we're into this, I mean,
we're, we're six years into these OICs,
and my God, it's gotta be, what, h- it's
over a decade of, of liberal governments
attacking us at every opportunity.
Take a toll?
Absolutely does.
I mean, it, you know, it takes a, it
takes a mental toll, I mean, just dealing
with people, average people, you know,
regular people, you know, Canadians
who should never have been put in a
position to have to deal with this stuff.
I mean, if the laws were reasonable
and sane, you know, and there were
straight paths forward, you know,
the, uh, there would be no problem.
But these are just regular Canadians with
regular lives, you know, uh, that have
been put in what m- in many cases are
just, like, insane situations because
of, of, of government actions, and
th- that's, that's just unforgivable.
That, that's, that's the
most galling part of this.
You know, these are not people trying
to skirt around the edges of the law
or s- you know, sneakily do stuff.
These are people who are law-abiding,
wanna be law-abiding, wanna be in
compliance, and are finding themselves
in this situation, uh, due to government
and bureaucratic edict cannot.
It's hard to talk about
yourself, isn't it?
Oh, boy.
Um, do you see light at
the end of the tunnel?
Oh, absolutely.
You know, um, I mean, the biggest
problem we have right now is the,
uh, the OIC gun grabs, obviously, and
they've been chipping away at this, uh,
since they got going in, in, in 2020.
Mm.
And yeah, they have gotten some
guns, you know, by hook or by crook.
Uh, some people, uh, voluntarily,
uh, uh, participated in, uh, the
recent confiscation registry that
ended March 31st, and not a lot, uh,
certainly not, uh, given the per capita
numbers of OIC firearms in Canada.
But, but again, you know, some people
think, get scared, get frustrated,
don't see a way out, and decide, "Well,
this is, uh, my opportunity to comply
and maybe, maybe be compensated for
it," and that was not a guarantee.
Yeah.
I- A- A lot of people said, "Well,
you know, they'll, they'll pay
me for it," and they find out,
"You're gonna pay me what?" So
136,000 is what they budgeted for,
which doesn't even- It doesn't
even come close to touching.
And yet the compliance rate is, I
think, less than half that of what
has been turned forward, and I have
a question of how they arise at those
numbers, arrive at those numbers.
Okay.
Are those numbers, uh,
conflated with business returns?
'Cause businesses I know,
and a lot of businesses-
Yeah
…
like this is just a stock
item, it's an inventory item.
I've been sitting on this thing for
years now, and they- Yeah … they-
And especially today.
Right.
You know, it's like, uh, every firearms
business in Canada is hurting real bad.
Yeah.
Okay?
And the part- part of the, uh, part of
this, uh, initiative was to, uh, drive
firearms businesses out of business.
This is another way that
we can end this in Canada.
Uh, if most of the firearms businesses
are gone, nobody can buy a gun, and, uh-
Have you had that told to you,
or is that your perception?
Oh,
uh, no, this is my belief
Okay.
Okay?
Um, certainly, I, I'm feeling
it, uh, with my business, and,
uh, if you look at it logically,
that, that can be the only reason.
Are the numbers conflated?
And yeah, I'll tell you how.
Um, a lot of this, a lot of the numbers
that the federal government was, uh,
is dealing with, was dealing with
when they came up with the ideas,
uh, uh, of these OICs, were firearms
registered in the old long gun registry.
Mm.
Okay?
The one that isn't worth
the paper it's written on.
Exactly, because officially, that
was all the firearms in Canada-
Mm-hmm … uh, uh, prior to 2012.
Right.
Because they had 99.9 perc- percent
cl- compliance, don't you know?
Of
course they did.
Oh
my God, what a- It was just a fantastic-
Yeah
…
um, so yeah, when, so when they s-
uh, crunched the numbers, uh, for the
number of firearms that they wanted
prohibited by OIC, they went back to the
old long gun registry and, uh, and took
a look at, uh, the numbers of guns, uh,
model by model, make by make- Mm-hmm
uh, that actually got registered.
Did you know that there are only
4,000 Ruger Mini-14 rifles in Canada?
Oh, yeah, that number totally checks out.
Well, it just makes sense, doesn't it?
I mean, this is a fire-
I mean, they've only- I
mean, The A-Team didn't
do anything for that gun.
I mean, there's no popularity around it.
I mean, they've only been imported in,
into Canada, you know, uh, since 1972.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, it's not the type of
firearm that, uh, anybody really wanted.
So yeah, you know- Well, the, the registry
says 4,000, so we can manage that, right?
Yeah.
It's a- … true and
accurate number, for sure.
And extrapolate that on,
on the other firearms- Mm
that, uh, were registered, and, and y-
you remember that, you know, that there
was a lot of non-compliance back then
because people- Oh, massive … yeah,
and people knew what, uh, what was gonna
happen, and that was basically proven by
the actions of this government because
y- a lot of people, if you registered,
uh, uh, what is now an OIC firearm in
the old long gun registry, well, you got
a letter saying, "We have information
that you held a registration for
this firearm, uh, uh, prior to 2012."
Yeah.
"If you are still in possession
of it, you will be required
to do such and such and such."
Mm-hmm.
They don't know if you're s-
still in possession of it or not,
but records from the registry.
And everyone said, "Oh, that's
just tinfoil hat." "You're just
paranoid." Registration.
Yeah.
Come on.
Registration leads to confiscation.
Nah.
No, they'd never do that.
Um, so driving businesses out.
Yep.
Uh, I've told this story before, but when
I started the Silvercore Club back in the
day, they- Yeah … they, the firearms
program says, "Okay, uh, we want you to
belong to a gun club or range in order for
us to issue an authorization to transport,
'cause that shows us a legitimate reason
why you're gonna have to transport it."
And a little- And
that, that was a policy that was
widely adopted by CFOs nationwide.
Right.
And then a lit- Yeah … a little further
down they said, "Well, if you've got a
restricted license, well, maybe we need to
know you belong to a gun club or range if
you're getting one or having one renewed."
Yeah.
And, um, spottily implemented
province by province.
In different provinces
right across the country.
I mean, if you look at Quebec, I
mean, in order to, uh, hold the
registration and to have ATC, you have
to demonstrate that you att- you went
to the range at least once a year.
Sure.
So I-
And they check up on it
…
I, I hired a lawyer, 'cause I said,
"I've, I've read the act, I've
read the regulations, I've read the
code, I've looked at everything.
You don't have the authority to do this.
I'm gonna challenge it
in court." Yeah, yeah.
Right?
Young, naive me.
And the firearms officer comes and he
explains, and I've told this part before,
says, "Trav, we're the federal government,
we got all the money in the world.
We got your money.
We'll hang it up- There you go
forever." Right?
Yeah.
"Start, start a club," right?
And I said, "Well, I don't have
property in the range." "No, no.
Club," right?
Yeah.
Okay.
What I haven't told before was, uh,
a bit of the impetus that I think
around that, because around the exact
same time, um, that same firearms
officer says, "Oh, Trav, you know,
we're all getting called back east.
We've got to go to Ottawa, we've got a
big meeting, firearms officers, we're all-
Yeah
…
all meeting up." I guess some, uh,
kid took a gun to school, handgun.
Yeah.
And, um, I think it was elementary school.
Yeah.
He said, his words, "It was show
and tell sort of thing." It, it
wasn't, there was nothing nefarious
that was done with it, but-
Yeah, it's a kid.
Right.
Uh, but they want to, um- then wanna meet
with the firearms officers, and they're
g- they're setting some course of action.
"I'll tell you all about
it when I get back."
Okay.
"
Oh, okay." Comes on back, says,
"Sorry, Trav, love to, but, you know,
I'm a man of my word, but I've also
had to sign an NDA, so, uh, an NDA
doesn't allow me to talk about it.
But what I c- can say is that the,
uh, firearms program and federal
government is coming up with a
three-pronged approach to limiting
legal firearms ownership in Canada."
Hmm.
Not illegal, legal-
Legal
…
firearms ownership in Canada.
And it was right around that time
when the, uh, requirement to belong
to a gun club or range came out.
I think that was one of the prongs.
I think another prong was going after
the businesses, 'cause if you can cut
the head off the snake- Yeah … as
I've heard that, uh, used around
the firearms officers in the past.
Interesting.
Yeah.
If you can cut the head off
the snake, the rest will fall.
So when you say it's your
perception that the, um, uh,
businesses are being targeted, I'm
going back to around 2005- Yeah
and that was part of the plan.
Now, it wasn't explicitly told to me.
I connected those dots because right
after that they came out with the,
uh, requi- requirement to belong to
a gun club or a range- Yeah … and
right after that they started
cracking down on firearms businesses.
And some of it was like
the film industry one.
Yeah.
Everyone could get a film industry
business license, and then all of a sudden
that became really hard, and then there
was those, uh, uh, police officers who
were doing their own film business- Mm-hmm
… and cutting corners and doing… Like,
there, there's that whole shady thing.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm sure if you talk to Tom Falcon,
he can fill you in on that one.
Oh, yes.
Um-
Tom's got s- Tom's got some stories.
Oh, yeah.
But, um, uh, and there was some
people who were actually doing
things shady that they shouldn't have
been that were, weren't even cops.
Uh, uh, uh, always are, always will be.
Right.
Invest- investigate them and charge them.
100%.
Yeah.
I think, uh, I think that was a
big push, and you saw the impact of
what they started putting in- Yeah
on business license conditions-
Yes
…
where the law wouldn't permit them
to put it on their business license.
I,
I, I've, I've experienced that.
Okay.
Okay?
But even before that, I mean, even when
they brought in long gun registration,
I mean, I, I swear half the businesses,
and, and mostly, you know, the
mom-and-pop businesses, uh, you know,
in East Haystack, uh, Saskatchewan- Mm
you know, selling guns for years,
uh, you know, out of the hardware
store, a lot of those closed down-
Yeah … just stopped selling guns,
and that was part of the plan.
So where do we go from here?
Well, uh, I believe the NFA's on the
Conservative Party of Canada's Outdoors-
Yes
…
Committee now.
Yeah.
C- can you tell me about that?
Uh, very positive, uh, uh, devel- you
know, very positive development for us.
Uh, this is the, uh, committee
that, uh, will be, and is already
approaching, uh, the types of firearms
law reforms that will be enacted
when Conservatives form government.
Yeah.
Okay?
And you know what?
A- and this is all part of the progression
of, of gun politics in Canada- Mm-hmm
which I love.
I've loved this, and I've, I've
studied this for over 30 years.
I love this, and we are finally at a point
where we have people in political parties,
and I'm talking about MPs, who understand
the firearms issue the way we do.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
And they know-
You're seeing that now, aren't you?
I, I know.
It's like, uh, uh, you know, people
who, you know, experienced the long
gun registry, people who understand
the way the licensing system works, uh,
people who are caught up in these OICs.
Mm-hmm.
And the, e- you don't have to… I, I'm
finding less and less that I'm having
to educate these people, which I love.
It's great.
No kidding.
And it's like, "Okay, well, okay,
uh, okay, sir, this is the way
it is. They said…" "No, no,
no, it's okay. I already know."
Yeah.
And I'm going, "Great."
What a boon, eh?
What, what… It, it's fantastic.
I mean, when you have people who
have common sense, understand what
has been done to, uh, uh, legal gun
owners in Canada over the years,
where we are now, now with the…
W- we've got the most restrictive
legislation, orders and council,
everything, that we've ever had
in the history of this country.
Mm-hmm.
Are we a safer country?
No, I don't think the numbers
would back that one up
Certainly not.
What's going on in our cities.
Um, uh, people- I think people recognize
that w- that we have, uh, a very
bad problem with the legal system.
Mm. I think people recognize that, uh…
And, and, and you know, I, I, I don't
think it's a problem with law enforcement
because they can catch them all day long.
Mm.
But I mean, once they get them in court
and they get kicked loose, what do you do?
Arrest them.
Arrest them.
All you can do is arrest them again.
I'll double arrest you.
Here you go.
Triple arrest you.
Here you go.
It's like, it's, it, it very
much is a revolving door.
You know, they talk about a revolving
door legal system in the United States.
Canada has had that for decades.
Mm. And, and until we get serious
about, um, I hate to say it,
punishing violent crimes, you know.
Uh, does a…
Can a finger behind bars pull a trigger?
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Uh, probably not.
Mm-hmm.
You're not gonna have that, the
same kind of access to firearms.
And, you know, we do have easy
access to firearms in Canada,
not legal firearms certainly.
Mm. But, you know, uh, w- we, we
share a, a very, very long and mostly
uncontrolled border with the United
States, and the, the fact of the matter,
as long as there is a demand for-
There'll be a supply
e- e- exactly.
And whenever I talk to- That's one thing
a lot of politicians don't get right now.
The, "Well, why are we having this
problem, you know, with all these guns
coming into Canada?" And it's like,
"Well, I mean, we gotta improve border
security." And I, I guess you can
always make a case for that, right?
Sure.
But again, they, they don't, they seem
to miss this part about the demand.
Mm-hmm.
It's like if we just secure the
border, um, y- you know, m- make it,
you know, very, very difficult to
get guns across, they won't come.
Mm.
No, they're gonna continue to
come, and they're… If, if they
can't come, or if it's not feasible
for them to come from the United
States, they'll come from offshore.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
It's the demand, because criminals know
that they can use a gun in an offense in
Canada today in 2026, and it's not going
to be a major part of their problem.
Mm-hmm.
Because that is the charge that is
gonna get plea bargained away first.
Mm-hmm.
And if you're only doing, you know,
six months, a year, four or five years
in prison You know, maybe that maybe
it's worth doing it because, uh, I, I
hate to say it, I mean, where, where
firearm- firearms like 60 years ago, 70
years ago, uh, it was a big deal- Right
for a gun to be used
in a defense in Canada.
Okay?
It had to be a particularly bad
guy or, or a psycho or something
for a guy to actually use a gun.
Most criminals stayed away from it.
You know, it was, you know,
fists or blunt objects or knives
or, or, or that sort of thing.
The gun was, "Hey, dude,
you don't wanna do that."
Mm.
Because the type of, uh, sentence
you would receive was, well, there
goes a big chunk of your life.
Right.
But now.
Now that fear's not there anymore.
No, it's gone.
So I often get asked about the
different gun organizations in Canada.
Hmm.
Yeah.
"Oh, who should we support? Who
should we get behind?" And I-
Get be- get behind one of them.
Well, I, I take a little different
approach, and I say, um, "Why don't you
get behind all of them?" Because they're
all doing some things that I look at-
Yeah … and from my perspective, and
everyone's gonna have a different opinion-
Sure
…
they're doing some things that are great.
Yeah.
And they're doing some things like,
ah, man, I'd do it differently,
differently than that, or I
don't like- Or for that, yeah.
or I don't like this at all.
But it's not the organizations,
and you can correct me from your
position if you're wrong- Yeah … but
it's not the organizations
that's gonna save guns in Canada.
They're gonna help
organize the individuals.
The individuals- That's right … are
the ones who are gonna save it.
So get behind one- Yeah
whoever you think it might be, or
all of them, and educate yourself-
Yeah
…
as a best path forward.
And if you get behind all of them, each
one's gonna have a different nuance on
what they feel the best path forward.
Of course, yeah.
And sometimes it all aligns,
and sometimes maybe they're not.
You know, a lot of people have
misconceptions about, uh, uh, gun politics
and, uh, gun organizations, lobby groups,
that sort of thing, and what they do
and, and what they can't do really.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, you know, it's always, uh, here
it is again, the United States, right?
You know, uh, the NRA.
The NRA, uh, goes into, goes to Washington
and, uh, you know, um, they're, they're,
they're held in awe, they're held in
fear, and they shut down legislation.
Well, that's just not true.
I mean, they've had, uh, certainly
had successes over the years, and
I love NRA as an organization,
what they've done, you know- Sure
organ- organizing sport shooting and that
sort of thing, and their lobbying efforts.
But, uh, uh, a- again, it, it
doesn't always work that way.
They are… Because, uh, politicians
can't t- talk to every stakeholder
in the country- Sure … okay?
Uh, they can talk to their
constituents, and they are
talking the, to the constituents
today in Canada, which I love.
This is another thing I love.
People are actually talking to their
MPs. Mm. They're talking to their
MLAs, and that is so important.
I don't like what's going on with guns.
Uh, when you form a government,
when you're in office, I expect
you to do something about that.
Do you think that's the number one
thing that people can do individually?
Uh, uh,
it always has been.
So if they wanna do that, is there, are
there primers of how they can go and talk
to their representative in a way that-
Sure, and we, we educate our
members, but you know what?
It's not complicated.
Mm.
And it's not hard.
You just go in as a regular person
and say, "This is my problem.
This is what they're doing to me.
I don't think this is warranted.
I'm a law-abiding, upstanding
individual, and I'm not going to
accept it." Plus, it doesn't work.
I mean, you can educate yourself
as, as much as you want.
Um, it's like write- you know, the
old thing about writing letters
to politicians, and everybody…
I would always get questions about
this because people thought they,
you know, they had to have, like,
a 10-page letter with all, you
know, all kinds of, uh, stats and
statistics, and this, that, references.
And it's like, no, you
don't have to do that.
Keep it short, keep it concise, and,
uh, make it real, uh, for the elected
representative that you're dealing with.
And th- they can really, they, they
can really relate to that because-
Mm … you're not coming on like
a big, you're a, a gun lobby guy,
whi- which is, is a problem for
us because they know who we are.
Mm. They know where we're coming
from, and- Sure … and that's fine.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, we can speak broadly, uh,
for the mass of firearms owners
in Canada who can't do that.
Mm-hmm.
And so therefore, they come to us
and say, "Okay, how about, uh, this
for firearms law reform," or, "What's
wrong with this and," or, or that.
And, and we can speak, uh, uh, with
authority on that because, you know,
we've dealt with this, you know,
through the reg- regulation, through the
legislation for, for years and decades.
Mm. And they know that.
But for actual polital- political
impetus, just the regular guy going,
"Hey, this is wrong and it's gotta stop."
Mm.
And you don't have to be, um, y-
you don't have to have 30 years
of experience to do that, okay?
Agreed.
Agreed.
Is there anything that we haven't talked
about that we should be talking about?
Oh, boy.
Uh- I think we've, uh,
uh, c- covered most of it.
Um, another thing I've been saying a lot
these days, support your local gun store.
I, I know people don't have a lot
of discretionary spending anymore.
Hmm.
You know, um, but, you know, if you
can, if, i- i- if you can make that
investment because we're, we're,
we're losing a lot of businesses.
I mean, my God, I, I take a l- a
look around here locally and you, y-
you're aware of who's- Sure … who's
not, just not there anymore.
Yeah.
And that's a problem.
Um, um, again, you know, get involved
with a, with an organization like
Canada's National Firearms Association.
Uh, we have a field officer program.
Basically you're a
representative of your community.
A lot of people think there's a lot
of onerous requirements for that.
I gotta go do this, I gotta
go do that, the other thing.
Yeah,
what do they have to do?
Uh, whatever your best efforts or
tolerance, or, or talents are, okay?
Right.
If you like talking to, to
politicians, you can do that.
If you like, uh, distributing
information at, at, at guns,
gun stores, you can do that.
If you like r- representing
an organization at gun
shows, you can do that.
Hmm.
It's really what you, you can bring.
And we have individuals who,
who do all of those things.
Field officers do all of
those things, you know?
Um, so there's not…
Y- you don't get, uh,
a, a job description.
Basically, um, I, I remember when I first
got involved and I, I was appointed- … a
field officer by Dave Thomas, and I
said, "Dave, I mean, what, what am I
supposed to do?" "You'll figure it out."
And he sure as hell did- … didn't he?
It's like… So, you know, it's really,
you know… U- use your imagination.
There's all kinds of things you do, and
as you get more experience, uh, then, uh,
y- you can sort of move up the ladder.
I did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, for those listening to this, uh,
I'd highly encourage, go check out nfa.ca.
Check out what they stand for, what
they're doing, and shoot Blair a message,
shoot the NFA a message over- Sure
because, uh, they've always been very
responsive, probably even more responsive
if you're a member, so that, uh, but I
think you respond to basically everybody.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you know, I get these questions.
Uh, the people call our office with
a, a, a legal question or looking
for guidance, and guess what?
If you do that, you're
gonna be talking to me.
Yeah.
And, uh, you don't have to be a member.
Uh, I, I understand that,
uh, a lot of people can't.
I think that's a smart approach.
Yeah.
It, it's like I'm, I'm not gonna turn
you away- No … uh, because there
are so ma- many people in this country
that are negatively affected by,
uh, uh, uh, the federal government's
actions, basically, and it's just…
W- luckily, I'm in a position
where I can ad- uh, advise people.
Um, you know, I have a f- I have a
full-time job, obviously, but it's
a job that lends itself- Mm … to
allowing me, uh, to take questions from
people and helping people because, uh,
a lot of it's, uh, a lot of it in- uh,
includes licensed firearms businesses.
So yeah, no, uh, if you call NFA, you're
gonna be talking to me, and we're gonna
give you straight goods, uh, real-world
explanations into plain language.
So I'll leave it at consider
supporting your local organization.
Check out the NFA.
Consider supporting them- S- … if
that makes sense … strength,
strength, strength in numbers.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, we
always get this question.
First thing, first thing a
politician's gonna ask you,
"How many members do you have?"
Mm.
Because that's how many votes
you represent, and- Yeah, good
point
…
you know, um- And so
l- just based on that.
And our membership, uh, I,
I'm very pleased with the
way our membership is today.
Uh, it's bigger than it
ever has been before.
A lot of that is, you know, the fear
of what's, uh, going to- Mm … happen,
uh, with, with the orders in council.
People want representation.
They want, uh, th- they want
groups, uh, to, uh, uh, to, to,
uh, take this forward in Ottawa
and, and, and come to a resolution.
But, uh, yeah, uh, I
understand everybody's limited.
Um, I'm limited myself, but, uh, if you
can support NFA, please, please do so.
If you like the work we- especially
if you like the work we do.
Um, but, uh, it, it- support at
least one farms organization or all.
Or all.
And here's something you can
do that's absolutely free.
If you like the conversation and
you think that other people should
hear this, share this episode.
Post it on social media.
Get it on out there.
Yeah.
And if you're interested in getting
your authorization to carry a firearm
or learning ways that you can, uh,
legally with the frees own and transfer-
Yeah … restricted handguns, check
the link in the podcast here, and
it'll have a complete guide for you.
Um, Blair, it was an absolute
pleasure having you on here.
Thanks.
Just before we s- Yeah … uh, we break
here, uh, I just wanna say, Rick, wherever
you are, thank you Rick Iger- Igersic.
You did so much good for this
organization, and I'm gonna miss
you, man, because you were the
hardest-working guy I ever, I ever
s- uh, one of the hardest-working
guys I ever saw, and I've seen a few.
Um, yeah, so, um, I'm, uh… Although
previously I was, uh, executive
vice president, I'm, I'm also, uh,
going to be acting as president now.
As we work through these changes, it's
not a big, uh, it's not a big thing.
I've done this before.
I was, uh, president from, uh, 2008 to
2010, um, after Dave Thomlinson died.
Uh, I was president for, like,
six months in 2022, so this is
my, uh, third kick at the can.
Blair, thank you so much
for everything you do.
It's been great having you on here,
and we're gonna have to do this again.
I would really like to do
that.