The Meat Mafia Podcast

In this episode, Loren Castle, founder of Sweet Loren's, shares her journey from battling cancer to founding and leading the #1 natural cookie dough business in the U.S. We break down Sweet Loren's incredible success and story, the positive irreversible change that dietary transformation has on oneself, and how we can nourish our bodies whilst enjoying delicious treats.

After overcoming Hodgkin’s Lymphoma at age 22, Loren became devoted to living a healthy lifestyle through nutrition, yoga, and mindfulness. After years of product iteration, adversity and a desire to align her commitment to wellness with her craving for a tasty, high quality snack - Sweet Loren's was born: a line of gluten-free, dairy-free cookie dough made with responsibly-sourced ingredients to satisfy any sweet tooth or dietary need.

We cover Loren's intuitive approach to entrepreneurship, navigating relationships with retailers like Whole Foods, product innovation based on customer feedback, the adrenaline one finds in pursuing a passion, and more.

Side note - this conversation was awesome - Loren is so passionate about wanting people to be able to enjoy all that life has to give, and her company might have honestly created the blueprint for how smaller companies with clean ingredients and win over customers and change the tide with big food corps. Go Loren!

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Creators & Guests

Host
Brett Ender 🥩⚡️
The food system is corrupt and trying to poison us... I will teach you how to fight back. Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod 🥩
Host
Harry Gray 🥩⚡️
Leading the Red Meat Renaissance 🥩 ⚡️| Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod

What is The Meat Mafia Podcast?

The Meat Mafia Podcast is hosted by @MeatMafiaBrett and @MeatMafiaHarry.

We're two guys who walked away from the typical path to carve out something different. Based in Austin, we’re on a mission to figure out what it takes to live a fulfilled life in a world that often pushes us away from meaning.

We have conversations with people we believe can help us, diving deep into the pillars of health, wealth, and faith, as the cornerstones of our mission.

Whether it's challenging the modern food system, questioning conventional health advice, or building something from the ground up, we're here to explore the tough questions and share the lessons we’ve learned along the way.

If you're tired of the noise and ready to find meaning, tune in and join us!



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255_Loren_Castle
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[00:00:00] Lauren, welcome to the meat mafia podcast. We are beyond pumped to have you. Thanks for having me excited to dig in and learn more about the meat mafia. Do you ever think you were going to be on a podcast called the meat mafia before? Um, I don't know. Once you join the food industry, anything is possible.

We'll rebranded the cookie club. Uh, maybe we'll start another podcast after this cookie fan club. I like it. We S we support that, but in all seriousness, we're so excited for this conversation. Um, I know we were talking a little bit before we hit record, but. We, one of our favorite things about the show is just getting to sit down with founders that are really doing things in the correct, healthy way.

Um, and with your company, Sweet Lawrence, you know, there's such an amazing story behind it. I know that you've had an amazing healing journey, so I think this is going to be a great episode to dig into nutrition, personal healing, CPG. I think there's a number of different topics that we can talk about.

But Lauren, I just think for the listener that might not know you quite as [00:01:00] well as we've gotten to know you just would love to learn a little bit more about, you know, your backstory and how that kind of led you to where you are today. Sure. So I grew up in New York City, and I went to college at USC in LA.

And it's a crazy story. Not, not something that you ever expect at 22 years old, but at 22, three months after graduating college, the lymph nodes in my neck got really swollen. I woke up one morning and just was like, something feels off. And unfortunately my mother had had a type of cancer. And so she had an oncologist as her doctor.

I was kind of done with my pediatrician because I was 22. I just was like, it was in between kind of doctors. So I just went to her doctor. And, you know, I was the youngest person in the room by far, right? Everyone going to a cancer doctor is much older, but I went to him and he looked at me and said, you either have nothing at all or Hodgkin's lymphoma.

And it took a month of testing to figure out what was wrong with me because nothing [00:02:00] showed up in my blood work. I had no obvious real signs except I had, you know, severely kind of inflamed lymph nodes in my neck and chest. After a month of testing, I was diagnosed with stage two Hodgkin's lymphoma. I had to go through six months of chemo and, you know, just checkups thereafter for the next five years to make sure it was clear.

And it just completely changed my life. Thankfully. There was a chemo treatment that worked, but at 22, I felt like I was just catapulted into my like 40s or 50s or 60s. Like my innocent 20s of partying and life is perfect. And the whole world is ahead of me. We're just like kind of completely gone. And I just realized how lucky I was.

And that health is everything that if you don't feel good, you have nothing. And I got so grateful for my health and so committed to just doing everything I could 360, you know, besides the medicine, what else can I do to not only get through this, but [00:03:00] just live like a vibrant, healthy, amazing life, because I realized how short it is and how nothing's promised and.

I just want to never have regrets. And I know how good feeling good is. So like, what can I do to feel great. And so I got even more into yoga and meditation and just kind of trying to create a positive mindset that was really helpful and powerful. And then food to me was just like, Like you are what you eat, like our body runs on fuel.

What kind of fuel and food are you giving it? And my doctor really didn't talk about the food. And so I realized I was going to have to kind of become my own doctor in terms of the nutrition I was eating. And. So I started to study nutrition and I started to take cooking classes. I took like a masterclass in cooking, not because I wanted to become like a chef in a restaurant.

I just was like, for the rest of my life, I'm going to be cooking meals for myself every day. I just want to make delicious food. That's [00:04:00] also healthy. You know, the only reason I think most of us don't eat healthier is a we're not educated about it. We just don't know be it's way too expensive or way too specialty and hard to find, you know, or see, it just doesn't taste good.

You know, it doesn't taste as good as the unhealthy stuff. So I was like, if I can figure out the answer to all those things and fix all those things, I can make eating healthy, something that's easy, affordable, and something delicious that I just like want to make all the time and I'll feel great. And so I just fell in love with whole real food ingredients.

So, um, just nothing processed, really healthier oil options, healthier sugar options, um, whole grain flours, just eating food as Unprocessed as possible so that A, it has more flavor because it's less processed, and B, it has more nutrients because they haven't been stripped from them. And so I felt like I actually became really good cook at like cooking proteins and grains and salads and [00:05:00] that stuff kind of goes easy and simple and, but I have a huge sweet tooth and there was just nothing I could find.

You know, and I was in New York city. So it was like, if this doesn't exist in New York city, this doesn't exist in the middle of the country. And I just couldn't find, this was also 15 plus years ago. So this is like all natural foods is what it is today. And so, you know, but I went into my local whole foods and local natural stores around New York.

And I just couldn't find anything that was like so decadent and delicious worth of calories made me feel amazing and tasted amazing. It was also made of really clean ingredients. So. I kind of had this vision, like, that's, that is what I'm gonna do with this crazy thing that happened to me. I'm going to take all, everything I've learned and figure out how to turn it into like a really big positive and figure out how to create a brand that I wish existed.

And so that was kind of the idea of Sweet Lauren's. And so the [00:06:00] first product I launched was cookie dough. Because I started to make cookies all the time and then people would say, Hey, can I just buy the dough from you? I want to be able to snack on it raw. I want it in my fridge so that I can just bake off warm cookies really fast for my friends, for my kids.

And I realized there was something really powerful about cookie dough. Um, because nothing's better than something kind of warm and fresh out of the oven. And I started to study the food industry and I was like, wow, there are really only two cookie dough brands that just have a duopoly on the market.

They completely own the market. There's nothing natural about them and they're not even that tasty. And so I wouldn't buy them. And I don't think a lot of my friends would really buy them anymore. And they would definitely buy a better option if it were on the shelf. So. Whole Foods brought in my first product as cookie dough and from there I have tweaked actually the recipe quite a bit to have it really have product market fit [00:07:00] and, um, and really like grow with kind of the change over the last 10 years of what people want and what the industry wants so that we can just stay as kind of competitive and relevant as possible.

So today, our cookie dough, this is our holiday packaging, but looks like this. It's found in the refrigerated cookie dough section of Whole Foods, HEB, Kroger, Publix, Target, you know, Stop and Shop, Wegmans, I don't know, the list goes on. But this is our product. When you open it, there's 12 portions of cookie dough.

So they come in little portions so that you can make one or two at a time, even in your toaster oven or air fryer. And it's just easy, you know, no fuss or mess. Um, we have fun flavors. That's chocolate chunk. We have a fudgy brownie, an oval cranberry, a sugar cookie. We have a low sugar, less sugar line. So people are looking for even less sugar.

Then we have a seasonal line that just launched. So we have gingerbread and [00:08:00] chocolate mint. So we've become the number one natural cookie dough brand in the market and, um, over time I've made the product not just delicious and simple and unprocessed ingredients, but it's gluten free. It's dairy free.

It's plant based, meaning it's egg free too. It's soy free. It's peanut tree nut free. It's really free at the top 14 most common allergens. So kind of no matter what your dietary preference or lifestyle is, this is hopefully something, you know, that fits into your diet as, as something that's like an amazing, delicious lifestyle that you can sign up for.

Yeah. Lauren, first off, your story is incredibly powerful. So thank you for sharing. I, I think that. It's incredible what can happen on the backside of like true hardship and clearly you've turned a huge negative in your life into something incredibly special and to be able to do that in the form of actually getting a [00:09:00] product out there.

That's replacing that a lot of people eat right like so many people go like want to have cookie dough or want to be able to enjoy cookies with their kids or family. Um. And they don't really have options to do it affordably and healthfully. So we've had a lot of people on the podcast. We've had Mark Sisson and, um, several people kind of in the food space.

And so many of them play in this area of just like making unhealthy foods. Healthier. And I think it's such a powerful statement because so many people don't have access to that. I'm just curious. Like what was that process like actually deciding on cookie dough is your product. Like there's so many options to choose from.

Yeah, it's a great question. So when I when I kind of was Um, after I got free, cancer free, you know, my doctor was like, okay, you know, go be in the real world. Now you're, you're normal. You're healthy. And I just was like forever changed. It was like very hard to be normal and get a [00:10:00] normal job. I tried, I tried to work at a couple of different places, but like, I just wanted to do something Amazing with my life and I wanted to have my own story and not work for someone else.

And I just realized I was an entrepreneur. So, um, I jumped in to start sweet Lauren's and I started to, I, I took a business writing course and I'm really glad I did that because it gave me time. It was like a six week course to just really focus on like all the options. Cause as you say, it's like, You, I could have jumped into a lot of things.

I considered opening a bakery and then looked at like the numbers and what that would look like. And I decided that's the last thing I want to do. I don't want to be, you know, stuck kind of in one square footage area and have that be open seven days a week. And when the plumbing breaks, I have to fix it.

And you know, I have to hire employees and manage everybody and truly kind of only feed people that are local. Like I was like, I [00:11:00] want something that could go. Uh, you know, a consumer package, good product, a CBG product that could go anywhere that could, that can reach any type of family that can be sold in every type of city.

And I want freedom, right? Like I don't, I'm doing this to have freedom, not to be, not to feel like I, you know, kind of am stuck in a store every day. So I got, that helped me get very clear on that. And also the numbers, like second, you open up a bakery. You're stuck with rent every month, no matter what you're selling, you know, and so I just thought, okay, how do I, what's the smartest way to enter this market?

Then when I, realized I wanted a packaged product. Um, on that first meeting with Whole Foods, I walked around the store with the buyer and he was really helpful. You know, we went, went to the baking mix line and he, uh, aisle and he was like, baking mixes move very slowly. You know, this, I wouldn't recommend jumping into this category.

You know, it's, It's not going to sell really fast for you. That was really great insight. I [00:12:00] had no idea about that. We looked at the ready to eat package baked cookies on the shelf. And he was like, there's a bunch of cookies here, but no one's like super crushing it, you know, in the cookie aisle. And You know, I had brought him freshly baked cookies.

So he's having warm, chocolatey, gooey cookies. And then he's looking at like the packaged baked cookies on the shelf. And he's like, I'm sorry, but like, nothing's ever going to be as good as this like warm out of the oven, fresh cookie and truly in the natural food space. Cause I'm in whole foods having this meeting, you know, they don't carry like the big conventional brands.

You know, so, and everything that goes in Whole Foods has to be non GMO and like the big brands aren't non GMO. And so, you know, he was like, no one has built the next brand name in natural cookie dough. And it really helped me like where, what was I passionate about? What recipes did I have ready to go?

Where was their white space and what truly like was getting people [00:13:00] excited? You know, and I didn't have access to data and research and I didn't have time to like do all this and put together a really fancy business plan. All I had was like my intuition, this meeting with the buyer and kind of my own kind of business writing, you know, days where I just really looked at like what kind of model do I want to sign up for that would be good.

For my lifestyle and what I'm trying to achieve here, which is really to make, you know, delicious, better for you baked goods accessible to everyone. And so, so really that's how cookie dough, you know, I just was, I just was ecstatic that he was interested in buying something for me. So the fact that he was like excited about cookie dough, I was like, I can do it.

I can do anything you ask for, but like, you know, cause I didn't have it when I took this meeting with whole foods, I didn't have a package product yet. I wasn't like dead sure that I was going to be. Doing cookie dough. I was very open. I was like, I could do mixes. I could do shelf stable package cookies.

I could do mini, I can do [00:14:00] large. I, you know, and it was really helpful going around the store and just being like, where do you have a need? What, what problem can I help solve? And it was really eye opening to hear that there was no kind of brand name in the natural cookie, cookie dough space. So I looked at, you know, finally looked at the numbers behind how big cookie, the refrigerated cookie dough business is a 700 million business.

And, Yeah. There's really just two players that kind of own it. And so that to me was like, that's my entry point. I can always create more products later, but like, this is the product that people just get so excited about. I mean, you know, I don't have to tell you who doesn't love cookie dough. You know who, who would ever be upset if you like didn't bring warm cookies or like bring cookie dough over to a friend's house.

So I just kind of looked at human reaction. Were you a Levain fan back in the day? So funny you ask. I used to work there. Wow. Nice. Okay. So I, I grew up on 87th and Broadway like [00:15:00] around the corner from their OG location on 74th of Amsterdam. And I became very close with the two women who started live in and still run it today.

And I'm still really close with them. I really consider them. Like mentors in this space. And so I worked there and I was there in the early days when like it was just really taking off. There were lines around the block and I was like, holy shit, people are lining up not for their breads that were amazing, not for their muffins, not their scones, not for like all the other things that they had on their, you know, their menu.

It was really their warm cookies. And I just. I, I just watched that so much that I was like, there's something so magical here. And like, how do I bottle that? And how do I kind of, then I got sick, like a year or two after my first year working with them. And it was just, you know, again, I looked at ingredients really differently after that.

So I was like, how do I create that same? amazing experience of a warm, [00:16:00] unbelievably rich, delicious cookie, but something that actually makes you feel great is made of like more wholesome, less processed ingredients is great for all kind of lifestyles. And, you know, it's something you could have weekly as opposed to like a treat, you know, a couple of times a year.

Yeah, I was part of why I was asking that. It's so cool. I didn't know that you'd worked there. I was asking that because I lived on a 59th and 2nd for like four years, go to that O. G. West side location a bunch. And the way that you described it, it almost is like a magical experience going in there where it's like you take the steps down.

There's a long line. Upper West side is beautiful. And there's like all these people coming out with the best cookies you've ever had, like fresh out of the oven. It's like, they, they capture an amazing experience. And that's probably, I didn't, I didn't realize that you'd worked there before. So it's almost like when you were younger, you had the signs of what you were supposed to be doing.

And then after you actually got, got healed, you're like, let's go all in on this thing. That's so cool. Yeah, I think after I got sick, I just was like, life is so precious. What are the [00:17:00] things I would never get sick of? Like what are the things that just, I fricking love and they, they light me up and they, they bring joy and happiness and like just dessert baked goods do that, you know, for me, you know, it's like.

It's it's more than food. It's really joy. Yeah. And to Harry's point too, you've identified like something we've been thinking a lot about is the concept of even throwing out the fact that there are bad foods. It's more so just how it's actually processed too. And obviously, you know, we've experimented with carnivore paleo.

We've done so many different diets, but I think how we actually have sustainable change is make this whole movement approachable. And it's like, No one's saying you can't have cookie dough or some of these other things that you love, but just get it from a source with really high quality ingredients that you can trust and have it as a treat.

Maybe not something every single day, but you can still enjoy these things. Like, don't deprive yourself of these pleasures. Well, that's the thing is that, like, I mean, now I've been doing this over a decade. So I've met hundreds and [00:18:00] hundreds of, you know, fans and heard these stories. And, you know, sure, there are some people that never ever want anything sweet for the rest of their life.

But I'll tell you, out of all the hundreds of people I've met, I've never met someone like that. You know, everyone I know. And, and most of my friends are like super healthy, amazing, you know, really care about health and wellness first and foremost, they are foodies. They love delicious food. They want to celebrate life.

They want to be able to indulge. They want food freedom. They don't want to feel like life has to be, I'm only allowed to eat what's in this box and I'm bad or my life is over or I'm making myself like, you know, sick if I go outside of it. And so. I just wanted to really create a lifestyle that's sustainable, you know, because when I was going through treatment, I stopped all drinking.

I didn't eat any sugar. I was so strict when I was going through treatment because my body was more sensitive and I just wanted to like eat as pure nourishing foods. And then [00:19:00] thankfully, you know, when I was cured, I just, I was like, okay, now I need like to reintegrate into like, Normal foods and a normal lifestyle where I don't feel like I'm on a diet, where I don't feel like it's so strict all the time, where it's something I'm looking forward to.

Like it makes life amazing. And I think that high quality fats, high quality flours, I think dark chocolate, all these things have major health benefits. It's not like dessert needs to be. You know, it's poison in my opinion when it's super refined processed oils and artificial colors and flavors and, you know, super bleached refined flowers, things like that, where it's just like, it's, you know, it's not great for your body has no nutritional value.

If anything, it kind of makes you out of whack. But I think there are a lot of super foods that actually can go into dessert. And so again, it's dessert. It's not meant to be a meal, but like, Oh my God, life is amazing. Like I eat super, I can eat super clean. I can work out all the time. [00:20:00] As long as I have my chocolate fix and my cookie fix.

I'm just like, I, I feel great. I feel like I have it all. What was your approach or relation? What was your approach to eating before? Um, and like, what was your relationship with food? Like before? Cause it's, it sounds like you've been healthy, like, uh, like at least you've been aware of being healthy your whole life.

But that moment obviously takes an incredible amount of, uh, focus towards being healthier and getting yourself healthy again. And so I'm just curious what, what you were like before. So I actually became a yoga instructor right before I went to college. So probably out of like my friends, I was probably always like the healthiest or one of the healthiest, you know, I was already into yoga.

I was already into green juice. I was already into California lifestyle. Like I went to USC for college. Like I was attracted, you know, from New York city, I was attracted to the kind of California outdoorsy nature lifestyle, but. I never had studied nutrition. I [00:21:00] mean, I really just didn't, I didn't even understand that there were different types of oils.

I had no idea that there were other types of flours besides like white flour that you find, you know, in the grocery store, store shelf, like, you know, I just, I had no, I didn't know about different types of sugar replacements about how important salt is even, you know, so I was never like a big into junk food, but I will say like growing up.

I think my mom was very healthy. Like we always had salad. You know, with part of our dinner, we weren't allowed soda in the house. Um, and so I think like I indulge, you know, like when I would go to friends houses or, you know, go out late with friends or whatever it was, but I never really felt good afterwards.

And I think I always realized it, but, but like, just was like, Oh, that's part of life. Like, I'm just kind of. Too full or feel kind of sluggish or gross or, and that was just kind of it, you know, um, but then once I [00:22:00] started studying nutrition and started to look at like how, like, let's just do a trial of just eating like really no processed food, just as real fresh ingredients as possible, you know, like, you know.

Sustainably sourced or just really clean meats, um, you know, whole grains, tons of vegetables, just how does this make me feel healthier oils? And when I started to feel the energy levels. Like rise and just my like love of life and like, just when you feel great, yeah, I think it's, it's just very hard to go back because like I started to feel even better than before.

And I was like, wow, like, this is the food that's right for my body, you know? And, um, so I definitely. You know, I, it's now I just look at food through a different lens. Like it's, you know, I definitely love food. I love to celebrate, but like, it's, you know, I'm always like, am I going to feel good after that's really how I kind of decide if it's right for me.

Yeah, I really love what you were saying. It makes me think about [00:23:00] like, I feel like so many people, their metabolic baseline is so low from eating processed foods, so they don't have that comparison point to what you're talking about. And then when you finally make that drastic change and realize, Oh, my anxiety went away.

I just lost 20 pounds. I have more energy to go to the gym. I have more energy to talk to that person that I'm interested in. It's like your life really does change. And there is almost no going back, but it's tough because most people, their baseline is so low that they really need that comparison that you're talking about, which I think is amazing.

Um, Lauren, you touched on something earlier that I wanted to dig into a little bit. You were talking about that relationship that you develop with that Whole Foods buyer. And I didn't realize that you were still conceptualizing what the product would be. And I would say that in modern CPG terms, people would be like, Oh, maybe you put the cart before the horse.

We're like, most people would start a brand, scale it, then go to Whole Foods. You almost did the opposite. It kind of reminds me of human co, when they had a Hugh kitchen, I think they knew someone that knew a buyer at Whole Foods and then Whole Foods convinced them to make the bar to sell it in the grocery store.

So [00:24:00] it's kind of similar to your story a little bit, right? Yeah, so that business writing course I took, there was a guy named Corey in my business class that worked in Whole Foods. Not like corporate worked in Whole Foods in the overnight shift to make money. Cause his dream was to start a bike shop. And so I was like, Corey, how does one get into Whole Foods?

Like I have no idea the process. And he literally called me the next day and was like, I just set you up with the meeting with the head buyer, like on Wednesday at the Columbus circle store on 59th street, you know, and, and that's the busiest store, I think in the U S and I was like, Oh my God, Corey, what are you doing?

I don't even have a website. Like it says coming soon. I don't even have a package of products, but I brought cookies every week to our like writing group because I was always working on new products and flavors and trying to, you know, perfect the recipes and everyone loved them. So he was like, Lauren, just go, go and take the meeting, bring him cookies, see what he says.

And that's when I realized like opportunities are going to come [00:25:00] up. And like, no one's going to build this business for me, you know, except me. So like, I got to go in a hundred percent and take every meeting. What's the worst that can happen. I'll get feedback. I'll come back to him. Um, I just want to show up and be 110 percent in control of my future.

So I went to him with that plate of cookies. Really to like have an introductory meeting, like how does this process work? What are they missing in the market? And, you know, I think the story really resonated with him. I, I wasn't really comfortable at the beginning telling the story just because I was like trying to talk about cookies.

And I feel like we talked about cancer, made everyone sad. And I didn't want to like bring that up. And I, I didn't think it was appetizing. We were talking about cookies and. You know, I just, I just, I wanted people to like, think that I was healthy and reliable. So like, it was hard to tell that story when I was really young and like, just kind of a couple years recovered from everything.

But I realized it was like, my biggest strength was being [00:26:00] vulnerable and being human. And because that's what he connected with, like he had daughters and he was like, yes, I totally see what you're doing. I totally would buy a better for you option on the shelf, as long as the taste is there. And so. Yeah, he, you know, maybe, you know, and so when he called me the next day and was like, how soon can we get this as cookie dough?

I just was like, you jump in, you take it. That's a yes. That's an opportunity. And granted, if I had a team, if I had had access to a ton of data, if I, maybe I would have launched in a different way, but. You know, this is my story. I jumped in, I had no friends or family in the food industry, and I just jumped in and I, I learned as I went and as I got more successful and could afford data and research and, you know, a team I hired them and all of that has helped us improve the product over time and really find product market fit now.

What I [00:27:00] love about this, the whole food story is. It really, it's, it's an against the grain approach to like what a lot of people would say is like sound business advice where you want to, you know, look at all the data and then base your decision based on the data, as you were saying. And I'm wondering if you just like look back at that day and like think about how important that decision was to actually go and get that human connection that human feedback.

Because you easily could have gone with like the store, like the shelf product for your cookies and maybe had an entirely different product experience for your customers. Um, it just, it really speaks to this, this intuition and like intuitive approach to business that I think a lot of people overlook or kind of dismiss.

Um, but there is something really powerful to it. Definitely. And, and. And listen, like it's taken me 10 years, maybe if I had access to all of that data and a team and, you know, I could have done this in half the [00:28:00] time, right? Like, so I think like planning and research and data and being focused are highly, highly important.

Um, I just. I didn't know better. I didn't have, I didn't have those things at my fingertips. And I do think that anytime you launch a product, it's going to evolve over time as well. So, you know, I knew with my first recipes and packaging, I knew it was going to iterate. But so I didn't buy millions of packages.

You know, I started small. I got, I didn't get into all Whole Foods overnight. I got into like three Whole Foods at a time. So I started in three stores in New York city. I personally did all of the demos. I would bring a toaster oven in a rolly suitcase on the subway, you know, set it up in the Whole Foods and I would demo.

And it was so exhausting. But it was so powerful because I met hundreds and hundreds of strangers who then would give me amazing feedback. Like, uh, this packaging, I can't read the [00:29:00] call outs. Um, can you do these flavors? Can you change it to this? And all of that was like really valuable feedback because, you know, I heard I was going on intuition, but like, after I heard up, you know, after the couple hundredth time, this is a brilliant concept.

I was like, there's really something here. And it gave me enough, like confidence without all of that data that like, there was a human need and I just needed to solve it. And it, you know, it's hard, like when you're starting, even if I had access to all of that data, I was early to market. Like I just was the natural foods industry is not what it is to, you know, when I launched is not what it is today.

So when I entered the market, like, you know, not all supermarkets. You know, a lot of supermarkets had, like, a natural food section versus it just being all integrated next to one another. You know, um, so I kind of launched. Thankfully, I had patience. The [00:30:00] first couple of years I launched, it was kind of the slow, steady.

And then it, it finally like 2016, 2017 is really when I saw the market really merge natural and conventional really came together. And that's when, you know, we were really ready, um, to meet the demand. And launch. Um, but you know, I found amazing, huge cookie dough factories and I couldn't, I couldn't commit to like their minimum volume.

You know, I was so small at the beginning. So the cart before the horse, it's like, you know, you got to start somewhere to build the demand, to build the confidence, to then be able to convince a huge factory, um, you know, to produce your product. So. You know, I don't think there's a perfect way, but I do think it's my gut and intuition that has gotten me here.

And I do think it's the data and the team and the research that's now made us very successful. That's amazing. And I think to Lauren, there's, there's to your point, there's [00:31:00] so much power in the founder story that I think we really overlook. We have a much smaller version of your story. We have our first supplement company that we came out with five months ago called Noble, which is like an animal based protein shake.

And so our apartment off South of Mars, like a mile away from Whole Foods HQ. So we knew someone that was able to get us a meeting with the buyer. Cause we'd gotten in a central market a few months ago. We thought, Hey, let's just start having a conversation with Whole Foods. And I remember before that meeting, Harry and I were like, Oh, we're thinking it.

We're like, do we put a deck together? Do we put data together? Like what is the buyer going to want? And we just looked at each other and we were like, why don't we just tell our story and focus on our healing journey and why we created the product and leading to the podcast and what we're trying to do.

And we took all the pressure off it. So we just brought a couple of bags of product, made some products for them, just talked about the show and our story and what we wanted to do. And it was probably about as good of a first meeting as it could have gone. So the way that you were telling that just kind of reminded me of a similar experience we just had like two months ago.

That's awesome, guys. I think [00:32:00] honestly, in in what I've learned, it's like, it's all about the product, right? This is food. If it's not delicious, if it's not delicious, people aren't going to rebuy it and repurchase. So like you can have all the data in the world. But if you have a mediocre product, who the hell cares?

So I think that's a great person. If you come blow them away with your passion, your Transcribed Story, your reason for being, get them to fall in love with you guys and your hustle. And then they try the product and they love the product and their other team members love the product, or they give them to their family when they go home.

And all of that's really what happened to me. It's like the product sold itself, you know? And then, you know, over time, you know, and, and then, then they'll be like, okay, when can you get it to market? What's your price point? You know, packaging, all that. But all those things can kind of be tweaked, you know?

To kind of make the market, um, to fit the market. It's a great point, Lauren. I'm curious, you know, along your whole journey, is there a particular moment that sticks out where you just [00:33:00] kind of said to yourself, like, damn, this thing is really working like this. Isn't just a vision. This isn't just what I conceptualized to build into this thing.

Like this is actually really working. And this is, you know, this is going to make it, we're going to make it happen. Oh my God, I could like cry thinking of the several different stories that just were like, Lauren, you're not crazy. Like this has all been worth it. Like, you know, I'll tell you like now again, I've done this, I've been doing this for 10 years and now we're sold in 25, 000 supermarkets and we launched a pumpkin spice flavor cookie dough for the first time this year.

And that launched in, you know, many stores and end caps. There's probably like, I don't even know if there's any left on the shelf now. Um, it's probably all moved into gingerbread, but it. It did so well. We had to like air freight in more packaging and it's completely sold out and, um, from our inventory.

So like maybe there's a little bit left on shelf now, but [00:34:00] just looking at data like again, it's us against like the big players like that pumpkin spice outperformed. All pumpkin spice, you know, products that came from even the big guys. And so that was a real pinch me moment of like, you know, we're not the little guy anymore.

We're actually like innovating beyond what the big guys have been doing. And sweet Lawrence is actually like, this is what people want. Like the sales are there, like, this is what the future is. And it's only going to keep people aren't are only going to, I think, demand cleaner and better ingredients. And so, you know, So such an exciting like moment for the team.

Um, cause that's, that's a very recent thing that happened a couple of weeks ago, but I think when I started to feel like the earth shaking from this and just was like, oh my God, it's like when I got into all public supermarkets and then we got into all Kroger supermarkets. You know, we started to be sold in almost every [00:35:00] state, you know, that really put us on the map and made us a multimillion dollar business.

And when I started to get emails from people, I'm talking several emails a day saying you've changed our life, like, I can't tell you how thankful we are, you know, I'm an athlete. The reason I work out is because like, I love to indulge and like, I need a cookie and I need, you know, that's like my fix, you know, and you make having a healthy lifestyle, you make it all possible.

It's like my reward. Um, Transcribed Kids with nut allergies or like, you know, a husband or wife that one of them is gluten free and the other one isn't. And, you know, they, it's like so hard to eat the same thing at home. And now everyone can eat the same food and everyone feels safe. And like the kid at the birthday party that was always like bringing his own special food.

Now, like you can just enjoy everything. And. I just can't tell you how many cancer survivors, people dealing with autoimmune issues, Crohn's disease, kids with autism, like the list goes on. It's like people, there's been a [00:36:00] lot of love for the product. And it's honestly the reason I've kept going. Cause I'm like, it's not just cookie dough, right?

It's like, it's, it's making people feel happy that they can have it all, that they can have their favorite foods that, you know, You know that people care that the future is getting better. Um, and so I love that because now all I see is opportunity of more more products to launch. It's amazing what a few words from a small amount of customers can do in terms of like encouraging the founders because I think most founders probably see like 95 percent or like 90 percent of just like.

Head down, grinding, like tough days. So it's cool to hear your story of just like those words of encouragement from customers. It's like, it's so true. It just keeps you in the fight. I'm curious. Do you have any days where you were like, this is it? Like, uh, you know, no more, no more of this. Oh my God, guys.

Like, I can't even go back to just imagine I started the company in New York City. [00:37:00] And I moved into a tiny studio apartment. I bought a chest freezer, like, you know, six foot chest freezer, put it in, in like my studio apartment, right? Like as you walk into my studio apartment, that's what takes up like all the room basically.

And I raised my bed so that I could fit containers of ingredients. Like I'm talking 50 pound. Bags of flour and chocolate and, you know, under my bed so that I could recipe test in, in my kitchen. I mean, I created all of my recipes pretty much in this tiny studio apartment. And like, there were just were, and I had no employees the first two years.

And so, and we didn't have perfect product market fit. I mean, there just were so many nights I'd come home and I would like take a bath and I would just be like calling my sister, my best friend, like hysterically crying, being like, is this worth it? Am I literally crazy? Like, because my whole life, I couldn't date.

I couldn't talk about anything besides Sweet Lawrence. Like, I just [00:38:00] was like, you know, I was in like a hole of the business and, you know, it had legs, it was moving, it was selling, there was questions, there was tweaking, there was new factories. So like I could have worked every day, you know, all day and it still wouldn't have been enough time, you know?

So there was definitely many, many moments the first couple of years where I just was like, Is this worth it? I'm exhausted. I feel like I've given my whole life to this. And then again, 2016, 2017, once we got into all publics and Kroger and moved to our fourth factory, you know, it really felt like We hit profitability and it just started to flow and that, and I hired a really great team.

And, um, last year I hired a president and honestly, those have been the best decisions ever because I have two little kids now and I have, I have balance and the whole business isn't just relying on me alone. And I [00:39:00] feel like. You know, it's more it's sustainable. It's not just all Lauren, you know, what if Lauren got sick for a week, you know, um, so it's really, it's really cool that it's, it's running and I'm setting the vision.

I'm still head of product. I'm still CEO. I, you know, make all major decisions, but I'm not in the business. You know, exhausted the way I was, and so, but I will say like when you love what you do and it's exciting like somehow the adrenaline just like keeps you going, you know, it doesn't matter, almost like the crazier gets like the better you get you're like okay I'm gonna figure it out I'm going to do it I'm going to become, you know, Superhuman.

And so, you know, the adrenaline kept me going. Yeah, it's like this weird duality where I'm sure a lot of times you certainly don't miss wheeling your bag into the subway to go to Whole Foods to demo, but at the same time, like, I'm sure there's parts of that mindset or like these little wins that seem so big at the time where like, you'd probably give anything to be able to go back to that to just how there's like [00:40:00] magic to that, it seems like.

It was, it was, it was super magical. It was such an adventure, but no, I'm good. I'm good. Keeping that in the next chapter, very exhausting. Yeah. And I remember saying to myself, like. Like, this is why Sweet Lauren's will win. No one will do what I've done. Yeah. Like I, yeah, no, I'm sorry, Lauren, go ahead. No, no, that was it.

It just, you know, when you realize, like, I will give more than anyone else. Like I am that, I am that much more committed. I care like more than anyone in the world about this. Like, You know, it just, it shows up in the work you do. It shows up in how committed you are. Yeah. When you talk about winning too, I hope people realize how big of a deal it is with the pumpkin spice flavor you outselling these big guys, because whether it's cookies, whether it's chips, like the processed food industry, there's like a couple giants that essentially monopolize every single industry.

So the fact that you're outselling them is actually, [00:41:00] is actually proof that we can change the tide and actually win this thing in the favor of healthy foods, where customers are voting with their dollar and they're choosing to buy your product because it tastes delicious. It's clean source ingredients.

There's a great mission behind it. Like we just, we can do that in every single industry too. Like I'm sure you think about that as well. Definitely. Um, no, it's so exciting. We just launched our first new product outside of cookie dough. We launched a breakfast biscuit actually in all whole foods. So you guys can check it out and in the HQ there, but in the cookie aisle, so, you know, not In cookie dough anymore moving into the cookie aisle, and it's a breakfast biscuit that has like four grams of protein, three grams of fiber, 19 grams whole grains, excellent source of B vitamins, so it's like really crunchy and delicious and just something great to like throw in your bag, or like, you know, breakfast on the go.

And so, We're it's only been a couple weeks. It's been on shelf. So, um, you know, it's too soon to tell, but like, we've done a ton of research before we launched [00:42:00] this. This is what our customers were really asking for. It was like, I love your cookies, but like, I want to eat something every day or something potentially for breakfast or something in my purse that I could share with my kid or after a workout or whatever.

So I think, you know, we're really excited to like move into different, um, eating occasions and. And, you know, again, really listen to customers and the response has been unbelievable so far. So, you know, it makes me really happy to see that the brand can expand, um, into a lot of different items. Um, we're working on a lot of exciting new innovation beyond cookie dough for the future.

So now I feel like I've worked this hard to like, there is a need. We've proven the need we've proven that we can play and that we're great to work with as like a partner for these supermarkets and we can innovate faster and better than a lot of the big guys. And so like, take a chance on us. You know, and, um, we will build, you know, we will be, and what's been [00:43:00] powerful is that Sweet Lorns has been very incremental to the category.

Right. So it's like, you're a lot of people were buying cookie dough, but now we're able to attract a more health and wellness customer, you know, right. I'm curious. So what would you say is the biggest, the biggest lesson that you've learned just building relationships with these big stores, these big retail chains, and what have you done or what have you learned just to maintain those relationships?

Um, cause they're so valuable in terms of just how people communicate about the product and, you know, their ability to get you shelf space or just work with you in general. So what have been some of the things that you've done or learned, um, from your experience? I think that, you know, the passion story really does matter.

You know, they want to know, they want to feel good about who they're working with and they know that their shoppers are going to resonate more with. You know, a special product, something that has soul that has purpose that, that probably solves, [00:44:00] you know, their customers problems too. So like, they love that they love innovation and being exciting and ahead of the times.

And so I think coming with that mindset of like, always trying to think of like, what's new, what's exciting, what's different, how can I help, um, grow, grow the category for both of us. And I think. You know, if you're an amazing salesperson, great. If you're not bring on amazing experience sales team, so that, you know, your, you know, your team knows how to deal with a target, a Whole Foods, a Publix, a Kroger, whatever the supermarket is.

So it's really important to like, have a really great team that represents your brand. Well, your values and is great to work with. And. You have to make it easy for them too. Like if you, it's a business, right? Like they could love you guys, love your products, but like they have a store shelf. You know, this isn't Amazon with unlimited shelf space, right?

Stores have a limited [00:45:00] shelf space and depending on where you want to get in, you, you do have to tee it up for them. Like, what do you think you're going to sell? How are you going to be a great partner? How are you going to make this a great business for them and for you? And, you know, even if they love your personality and love your product, it has to be a business, right?

So really making sure you understand price points and your packaging and you really understand the customer and that you deliver on time and that you're just like a great all around partner to work with. I think like that's we focus on all those things because that's what it takes to be taken seriously.

Totally. No, it's amazing advice. Um, Lauren, what gets you most excited for the future? Oh my God, we're working on so many exciting new products. So that's like, that's what I get to spend a lot of my time doing. And Um, I'm excited about honestly growing into our potential and, and launching new products and really building Sweet Lauren's [00:46:00] to be a brand name and just doing the most good we possibly can in the food industry.

I love it. Well, for anyone listening, where's the best place for people to find more about you, but also Sweet Lauren's. So follow at Sweet Lauren's, that's sweet, S W E E T L O R E N S. on Instagram, Facebook, et cetera. You can follow me at Lauren Brill L O R E N B R I L L on Instagram and you can find Sweet Lauren's refrigerated cookie dough in the refrigerated dough section of your local, you know, Whole Foods, H E B, Publix.

Target, Kroger, stop and shop, you know, wherever you can go on our website, sweetlaurens. com, put in your zip code. It'll show you where our products are sold near you. And then, um, if you're near a whole foods, check out our breakfast biscuits in the cookie aisle. We have cinnamon, sugar, chocolate, and blueberry as the three flavors of breakfast biscuits that we just launched.

And, um, I really want to know what you think. So. [00:47:00] We love hearing from real feedback from customers. What do you, what do you think what's missing in the market? Um, it fuels us. What flavor am I bringing to Thanksgiving to win the dessert wars with the rest of my family? Uh, very smart. So oatmeal cranberry is like a huge favorite chocolate mint or gingerbread though.

Are the traditional flavors and they are, I'm talking sensational. So I would, I'd get them all and just come with a variety and you will absolutely win the dessert wars. The gingerbread with a glass of raw milk is probably insane. Consider it done. It's insane. Awesome. Well, Lauren, we appreciate this so much.

I mean, your story is beyond inspiring and it's just so cool for us to connect with founders and just learn more about your story and the humble beginnings and all the adversity that you've overcome. And we just have so much admiration for you and the brand that you've built. And we just appreciate you for fighting the good fight.

Thank you so much [00:48:00] for the support. Really appreciate it. And good luck to you guys. I'm rooting for you now. Thanks. We'll have to send you some products. Please do. I'd love to try it. Awesome. Thanks Lauren. Bye guys.