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In a world that feels increasingly chaotic, uncertain, and hard to make sense of, Realms of Curiosity with Sarah and Wendy offers a different kind of conversation.
Drawing from shamanic practice, psychology, and decades of firsthand experience with non-ordinary reality, Sarah and Wendy explore the deeper forces shaping our inner and outer worlds—from intuition and consciousness to deception, transformation, and the shifting nature of truth itself.
They don’t claim to have answers. Instead, they follow curiosity into the unknown—questioning, exploring, and inviting you to do the same.
Because in times like these, curiosity might be one of the most powerful tools we have.
Welcome to Realms of Curiosity. Listen in as two friends explore the mysteries of the universe through the lens of their otherworldly experiences.
Wendy:Hi Sarah.
Sarah:Here we are.
Wendy:Yes we are here again.
Sarah:Having a great day.
Wendy:Yes we are.
Wendy:If it doesn't show already. Let's see where this this conversation takes us. Yeah. Speaking of which, I was thinking that we could pick up where we left off last time Perfect. Where we had talked about you remember the the notion of the higher self or the over soul
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:it came up at that very end of the conversation. It kinda felt like we sort of left it hanging there.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:That part of us that I was suggesting that dreams our human self into existence. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe we can explore that. I'd love to hear actually, I'd love to hear your concept of what you like, what you have thought about regarding the higher self or or experiences you've had or, like, where you're at with that concept.
Sarah:I really am interested in in your take on it as well with the with the higher self dreaming us into existence. I find that fascinating. My notion of the higher self is what I work towards, shamanically or otherwise, to free myself from the confines of the ego mind and of the of the part of me that let me rephrase that. I work towards being as much as I can outside of the programmed mind. You know, where we're taught that now you're Canadian.
Sarah:Now you're American. Now you're a girl. Now you're a boy. Now you're a like, all the things I mean, the programming starts right away as soon as we're we're born and moves us along. But I find that through shamanic work, through journeying, I feel that we're connecting with the infinite potential.
Sarah:You're moving away from those restrictions and the ego mind, and you're moving or I'm moving into a place that really is infinite and and just this vast consciousness that when I'm journeying or otherwise, I have the power to plug into. Does that make sense?
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. No. That's cool.
Sarah:That's my feeling about it all. But I don't I don't really get the idea. I'm I'm starting to wrap my head around what you have talked about dreaming this life into like, how does that work? Can you explain that?
Wendy:Well, not that I have all the answers or anything. This is based on the training I received, and these are Hawaiian concepts. Yeah. So from the the Polynesian tradition. Yeah.
Wendy:And it's, again, my understanding of them at this point.
Sarah:And Yeah. Think we need disclaimers on everything we're Yeah. So
Wendy:I I could be getting some of it wrong or misinterpreting it, but what was really cool was getting this sort of foundational concept of the self in my early training Mhmm. Which made such incredible sense to me. It's a such a beautiful conception of the self that I haven't been able to shake it. It just makes incredible sense to me. So the higher self or the over soul is one of three souls that the Hawaiian suggests that we have, that we don't have one soul, but we have three souls.
Wendy:And so from that perspective, you could say they're each kind of operating independently, and they have their own motivations and their own skill sets and their own jobs to do. And so the
Sarah:It sounds complicated.
Wendy:It's actually not. It's beautiful. The Oversoul is one of them. Basically, it's who you really are, and it is the aspect of us that resides in the upper worlds of the dream time realm or the shamanic realm or the non ordinary reality or Mhmm. Or non physical reality.
Wendy:And there's nothing human about that part of us.
Sarah:So there's What? It's just spirit. Is that what you mean?
Wendy:It's pure consciousness to me. It's just consciousness.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:But it's got an individual kind of- it's its own being.
Sarah:So it's a it's consciousness that's its own being, and everybody has their
Wendy:own Oversoul. Oversoul. Yep. Even all all the creatures, like the animals, the the plants, they all have their own oversoul that's dreaming them into existence. Alright.
Wendy:So from this perspective, this part of us, this oversoul field is traveling through eternity having experiences kind of on this evolutionary journey. And
Sarah:And it's it's forever?
Wendy:Eternity. Yeah. I mean, there's no time in the dream time realm. Right? It was just existing, having these experiences.
Wendy:So everything's happening simultaneously. Oh. Which gets really trippy. Right? And that but that's such a nonhuman way of looking at things.
Wendy:That's it's hard to wrap our human brains around the idea that it's all happening. Kinda like what you've said before, everything all all at once.
Sarah:Everything everywhere all at once.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So this part of us is the collective of all the identities we've ever lived or going to live. So you buying into the idea of reincarnation.
Wendy:Yeah. You're Because you're you're having all of these experiences simultaneously. But from our human perspective, you'll perceive it in a linear fashion.
Sarah:You're right.
Wendy:But with all of that, each lifetime is offering a wealth of wisdom to that oversold field. Collectively, it's constantly evolving because of all of these experiences it's having. And I use the word it in Yeah. Purposely because it's not human. There's no gender.
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:There's no skin. It's I mean, it's It's consciousness. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:Can you ever can you ever get off? I heard
Wendy:Off the over soul? Yeah. Well, I mean, I did have in some of my experiences, I I I love exploring that territory where the over soul resides, like, we do in our lives, in between lives. And and, yeah, just there's so much to explore there because there's a whole other existence, and I just feel like I saw, like, a little tiny bit of it. But Interesting.
Wendy:What I saw is that you could reach a certain point where you, maybe finish that evolutionary path, and then you reunite with everything. And then that informs everything. So so everything from that Oversoul field will inform all that is. And there was a place where Oversouls are born that we were asked in some of in some of the early trainings to explore. So you go to that place, and you could see the process of Oversouls, new souls being born.
Wendy:And so in that new soul, there's probably aspects of all of the wisdom from all of the the other Oversouls who had already gone through their process in forming the new oversoul.
Sarah:Oh, this is so trippy.
Wendy:And maybe there's a larger evolution happening, and maybe there's tiers beyond that of more evolution happening that it it's way beyond my pay grade. I mean, I don't but these are just
Sarah:Yeah. I mean, your, studies with Hank Wesselman, I mean, this is, like, wildly interesting. And, you know, most of my studies were with the foundation and some other indigenous teachers as well, but mostly the foundation for Shamanic Studies. And this is not dealt with, like, at all. This is never brought into it, which is surprising because Michael Harner, who who is the the one who brought this to the West, basically, he really did explore a lot of the different varieties of shamanism.
Sarah:And Right. Yeah. Very much so. But this was never touched upon unless I happen to be, like, napping during that particular class.
Wendy:Can't see you missing that.
Sarah:Yeah. It doesn't seem likely.
Wendy:No. No. I think this was really specific to Hank.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And, you know, I wonder too if it was inspired by the book Journey of Souls. Do you ever read that?
Sarah:probably one of the books I have that I didn't finish.
Wendy:I I mean It's a pretty amazing book. Good. It's one of the books I recommend most. Michael Newton. He's a psychologist.
Wendy:I don't know if he's still alive. I know he's he was he he's an elder, if he is still alive. He's I think he's in his eighties.
Sarah:Journey of Souls. Certainly heard of it, but Yeah.
Wendy:Read. Yeah. It's basically about hypnotic regression. Newton took someone accidentally to their life in between lives. Uh-huh.
Wendy:So the book is a bunch of case studies of people having these life in between lives experiences, and then there's all these common threads between them. What I've frequently said is that my upper world journeys are almost straight out of that book.
Sarah:Interesting.
Wendy:These territories, and a lot of them are the territories we explored with, with Hank and his wife, Jill. Yeah. I wonder if they were really inspired by by that book or not. I don't know if if that's true. It kinda sounds familiar, but I can't say for sure.
Wendy:Anyway but, yeah, we went there. We went to all of these really cool places.
Sarah:We did too. We went like, upper world, we we did go to kind of inter worlds and other kinds of places, but but the oversoul seems to be pretty specific to like, this whole thing you're describing seems to be pretty specific to
Wendy:To Hank?
Sarah:In the Hawaiian.
Wendy:Yeah. Well, yeah. In in the Hawaiian tradition, they call it the, which is, like, your ancestral field, but it's your personal ancestral field. So all of the ancestors that your personal ancestors, all of the identities you've you've lived or are going to live.
Sarah:Yeah. I I do have that notion as well. It's Yeah. It's not the same language necessarily, but at some point in my journeys, I started to understand that working with certain spirit guides were me. You know?
Sarah:That that the consciousness was a totality of of these these beings that came into my journeys. And some of them were many were actually future selves. It's trippy, right? Yeah, it's really trippy. And they're really interesting.
Sarah:They've been incredibly fascinating. You know, it's like when we start journeying and we work with, sometimes with, you know, animal spirit guides or, you know, it's just like you start in this kind of very easy place, and then you realize, oh my God, this is, there's so much more to this. It's infinite, really. And our human brain, you know, there's times when I feel like I I just can't understand this. It's so massive and so complicated.
Sarah:And my brain just kind of blows up, you know? Don't you feel that?
Wendy:The feeling. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I yeah.
Wendy:You can't wrap your head around this stuff. Like, I've gone to places in some of my experiences that I that are so far out there.
Sarah:Yeah. Me
Wendy:too. And I just get glimpses because my brain wants to try to understand it, and I I can't. Yeah. I just and I don't think I'm supposed to because You I'm
Sarah:just can't.
Wendy:So I should be here.
Sarah:Yeah. Be here.
Wendy:But it it plants little seeds at least of possibility. Right? That there's so much more and this this human experience is just such a small, a wee little part of it. Maybe? Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah.
Sarah:It it's fascinating, really. I I may have mentioned this before, but one of my other dimensional being guides, he's he's very much a scientist. And so I would ask questions, you know, like, what about the big bang? What about this? What about that?
Wendy:Yeah. I remember you talking about this one. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:And he would just say, you won't be able to understand this. I can't explain it to you. Your brain will not understand this. That's rude. That's kind of rude.
Sarah:Yeah. But he was, you know and he would say very provocative things to me. One one time I I was in a journey, I was asking about the speed of light. And just as the journey was finishing, he said to me, if you really want to explore something interesting, explore the speed of dark. I was like, what?
Sarah:Came back from my journey. And I was like, what is that all about? And now there's so much about about dark matter. It's like, and at the time, there was it wasn't, like, real. It wasn't something that was in our I mean, maybe for the mega scientists it was, but certainly not in any kind of you know, you wouldn't be strolling through Facebook and find an article about about dark matter.
Sarah:Now you do. You know?
Wendy:Right. Yeah. No. It's there.
Sarah:It's there. And he was so right. And and, you know, I think all these things are are so complicated. But
Wendy:Yeah. And how cool that you can get a little bit of access to stuff
Sarah:Well, that's what I mean.
Wendy:That's beyond your capacity or your capability. Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, our world is in such a precarious place. Our planet. Our humanity.
Sarah:It's so precarious. And I feel truly that the only way we can deal with all this is through connecting with our with our bigger consciousness, you know, with our massive intelligence that we have access to.
Wendy:But Now what are you referring to in this instance? Because we're using different language. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, or you're talking about your higher self, or you're talking about the the bigger The bigger field of field of possibilities.
Sarah:Well, because we we're talking two different languages, it's hard to it's hard to know what I'm talking about. Just through journey states, if we all knew how to journey, you know, if we all knew how to connect with that out of the program mind into the bigger consciousness, like, what solutions would we come up with in our world? Like, the idea of of killing people is so preposterously horrible. And, you know, how can you solve these problems of the planet? There's bigger ways to do it, rather than just throwing money at it or Yeah.
Wendy:I don't know. Yeah. We're not very highly evolved as a species. We really are. Probably said that before.
Wendy:Say it a lot. It's true. I mean, we haven't been on the planet very long. No. You think about it.
Sarah:And I don't know that we're gonna be here a lot.
Wendy:Yeah. We we who knows? We may not.
Sarah:Not in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But to your explanation of the Oh,
Wendy:the dreaming our human selves into existence. So my understanding and my experience looking into this territory is that your higher self could have the desire or intention. Desire is a human word, but the intention to want to have another experience. Right? And because it has an evolutionary goal, it wants to achieve, again, another human word.
Sarah:Experience?
Wendy:It wants to have an experience.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:My understanding based on my experience of this is that my oversoul field, my higher self, higher consciousness, whatever you wanna call it, had a conversation with my council of elders about this particular wish, and my Oversoul was presented with three options for a human life to live. A very difficult one, a moderately difficult one, and a easier I mean, they're all lives on planet Earth, so they're all difficult. But some can be extremely challenging and some not as much, so in that spectrum. And my oversoul consciousness got to step into those lifetimes in advance to get a shape for the personality and the experience of that human to see if that would fit right for
Sarah:This is wild.
Wendy:I chose the the middle one Ah. Which is Wendy. Uh-huh. And who knows? I may have also been the other two too, but my awareness of choosing Wendy was really the goal for that particular journey exercise.
Wendy:How did you get to be Wendy? That's a loaded question anyway. So at that point, that the oversold field is well, it the whole concept is that our physical reality is being dreamed into existence collectively by all of us. And there could be a lot more to it. There could be other other aspects of how things how it gets very complicated, but how things get created to begin with.
Wendy:Just the the creatures that live on planet Earth alone. Like, from the microbes Oh,
Sarah:all of it. Yeah.
Wendy:To, very complex beings like the humans. And complex meaning our brains. What created the oversouls for them in order to become a thing that's dreamed into existence to begin with? I don't know. I mean, it's it gets a little, again, trippy.
Wendy:But all of this is being dreamed into existence, and so that would suggest that this is the dream, this physical experience we're having right now, you and I having this conversation on two sides of the country.
Sarah:So does this support the idea of this being a simulated reality?
Wendy:Well, I mean, it's different language. Simulated suggests to me that's that simulated I I think it's computer language. So
Sarah:Well, yeah. But
Wendy:But a simulation, meaning that that it's not real.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Ultimately, I guess that's what we're we're both suggesting because you have said that. Yeah. I'm just using the language of dreaming. Yeah. And so that
Sarah:Same kind of same kind of idea, really.
Wendy:Same idea. Yeah. Because some people, when they say simulation, I have heard people say that we are kind of slaves to this. Like, we're in the matrix. I don't know if you buy into that concept or not that that we're we're trying to escape this simulated reality.
Sarah:I don't buy into anything. I I like to think about things.
Wendy:Gotcha.
Sarah:You know, I find it all so interesting. Like, you're explaining this over small thing. I find it fascinating. And then there's a part of me that goes like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I buy that.
Sarah:Like, there's you know, I I can but it's interesting to think about. Like, to say this is what reality is or that's like, I I
Wendy:Oh, yeah. It's all it could be all bullshit. Right? I mean, where I rest my laurels is on my direct experiences. So when I have a direct experience and so I've had a direct experience connecting with my oversoul.
Wendy:Right. So the oversoul is this loving being that wants nothing but the best for you, but it will never tell you what to do. It's just dreaming you into experience so that your experience is your experience. It it has a constant connection with you. And the Hawaiians would say that when you're born, a piece of your over soul field separates from itself in the upper worlds and travels down through the energetic realm into the physical world and plants itself in your heart when you take your first breath, and it stays with you.
Sarah:Soul? Is
Wendy:that The over soul field, a piece of it, a seed of it is Yeah. Is planted in your heart.
Sarah:In your heart.
Wendy:When you take your first breath.
Sarah:So that's not your soul?
Wendy:Well, I don't know. What do you think your soul is? There's a spirit and the soul. I don't know. Some people differentiate the two.
Wendy:It's confusing to me. To me, we have three souls. So it's planning itself into your one of your souls, which is your body soul. Got it. Got it.
Wendy:Yeah. And specifically in your heart. So that's a direct connection to your over soul field.
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:And it is extremely wise. And again, it never tells you what to do. It just wants you to have your experience, but it's offering guidance through intuitions, through those moments. Symbolically, it doesn't use words. It doesn't talk to you through dreaming, through those knowings, the claircognizance.
Wendy:And it has the whole blueprint because it it knows your entire life before you live it because there's no time there.
Sarah:You know what's interesting? So tell me how this would play out in in this thinking. So as a human being, lately, I find myself very restless Yeah. Unsure of what I'm supposed to be doing. Should I be moving?
Sarah:Should I be staying? Should I be like, there's a lot of, like, this churning feeling in
Wendy:Right. Yeah. You were talking about that a bit.
Sarah:Right. So in terms of my over soul, what is that? Is it is it that I'm not connecting well with my over soul? Am I am I
Wendy:I don't know. What do you think?
Sarah:I don't know. I'm not sure.
Wendy:I I have I mean, for myself, that would be an indicator of if I'm restless, then maybe there's I'm not listening. There's something brewing, something needing to shift.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:And and so now I need to maybe listen deeper. And I I think because we are so head centric, we're so in our heads that we need to think through everything and problem solve everything that it gets so noisy that it's hard to hear or hard to perceive your oversoul, your the little the little tidbits that it's offering us.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:And it's in those quiet moments, like, in nature or No. When you're creating or, when you can get into that quiet place in the center of your head that you can start to receive this. And the thing is, it won't be a logical thing. It usually is the antithesis of logic. It's usually it usually means a risk of some sort if you're about
Sarah:to Yeah.
Wendy:Start a new chapter.
Sarah:Yeah. It's all and that's I recognize it, you know, very well in in my lifetime. It's always the same. It's just this little itch that comes, and then it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And it's like, ah, you know?
Sarah:And I don't know what to do. And then I do it. Yeah. And it's it's so uncomfortable though as it's as it's like picking its way into my Right.
Wendy:Well, maybe it's supposed to be. Maybe that's like the first sign that, alright, this process is starting. So, but I guess the point I was trying to make is that most of us will retreat immediately into our cognitive selves, what you call ego mind, and try to problem solve the fuck out of it and and Yeah. And create a plan and
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. But it's already in you. It's just a matter of of kind of peeling back the layers so that it can emerge. And and you'll get it as a felt sense. It'll be like a
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:You know, you've had it before. Right? It's like
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And, you know, the the thing that my mind says is, I wanna move to the country again, be with the forest, be with the trees, be with water, and raise dogs, and paint and draw. And right.
Sarah:That's what I want. But then the other part of me goes, like, wait, what?
Wendy:Right. Right. That doesn't kind of fit in with Yeah. With how things work here.
Sarah:Right. Exactly. And how are you gonna make money? You know?
Wendy:Like Yeah. That's where I was headed.
Sarah:But Yeah. Exactly. Didn't say it out loud. But that but I hear a lot of people saying some version of this now. There's this real
Wendy:What does that suggest though?
Sarah:What? What?
Wendy:What does that suggest about where we're at? Right? I mean, is that part of this bigger thing that's happening right now? Is all of these systems are in in chaos and Yeah. You know, when things get really messy, I think that's when when you can get the most clarity because it points out what's important to you.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Wendy:When things are just status quo, you don't really think about that shit.
Sarah:No. No. No. When you're like, hey. Life is great.
Sarah:You know?
Wendy:Yeah. Just doing my thing
Sarah:Doing my thing. On the
Wendy:hamster wheel.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. But so maybe we have to be really mindful, you know, of of what like, really connecting with our over soul at times like this. Its purpose is inspiration. Mhmm.
Wendy:It communicates to you through intuition. Mhmm. And its role is spirit teacher. Mhmm.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Sometimes it can be hard. Right? But if you know this is the dream, if you can remember that in the midst of a really difficult time, even if that concept is completely bullshit, it's a really helpful kind of framework to use. Yeah. Because then you can kinda pull out and observe yourself in the dream of your life and look at it symbolically and say, alright.
Wendy:Well, here I'm finding myself in the same situation again Yeah. Or whatever. And and you can look at it from that perspective and say, alright. If this is just a dream, then why the hell does it matter what I do at this point? Like, I'll try this.
Wendy:Why don't I just take a risk and try something completely new or go with my heart even though it's illogical and it's not what society suggests I should do? Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. It's fascinating really. That that idea of of connecting to the oversoul and and getting clear on on who you are.
Wendy:Well, I think we're doing it all the time. We may not be knowing that that's what we're doing.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:But if you cultivate the relationship
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And have a more direct relationship with it, I think it can make life a lot easier.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I mean, you know, whether you call it this or that or, you know, just journeying makes your life easier. That's for sure.
Sarah:You know, learning to to connect with something the bigger picture of things. And just asking, you know, in your journey state, what do I need to know about this situation that presents Super itself to helpful. Super helpful. It's so simple, so straightforward, and doesn't take any effort whatsoever.
Wendy:And that's where you get into trouble is if you try to do it. Yeah. When you use effort. Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly. And when people get into corners, they forget to journey. You know, like, sometimes with my clients, they'll be having a situation, and I'll say, did you journey? And they're like, no.
Sarah:I didn't have time. I'm too stressed. I'm just like, well, that's what you're supposed to journey. You know?
Wendy:Right. Well, but it's hard when you're in fight or flight
Sarah:Totally.
Wendy:Or or freeze that you
Sarah:Yeah. Totally. You
Wendy:just yeah. You're not super clear at that moment what would be best for you usually. Exactly.
Sarah:Yeah. Then they all say, but I meditated. Like, I don't care, but that's good. Yeah.
Wendy:She did. What do you really think, Sarah?
Sarah:That's their that's their bone that they throw me. You know? Like Yeah. Will shut her up a little bit.
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. That counts.
Sarah:That counts. No. It does count. Of course, it counts, but it's not the same thing.
Wendy:So what are the other two souls? Okay. So You're on the spot today. No. I I really love this framework.
Wendy:Yeah. So going back to the idea of the over soul having the intention of having another experience as a human, It chooses that human. Upon conception of that human, the development of the embryo, that is the birth of the second soul, which is the body soul. And that is the part of us that is restoring and repairing and running the body. And the part of us that is the source of our emotions and feelings, it's where our memories are stored, It's the part of us that is learning and creating habits.
Wendy:It's the part of us that can become addicted. It's motivated by pleasure, so much like, Freud's id, but it's different than Freud's id. And in fact, you could say these three souls are akin to Freud's id, ego, and superego.
Sarah:Yeah. Totally. Right?
Wendy:But no. No. Right. I mean, there's some parallels, but Yeah. This is different territory.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:The body soul, it's motivated by pleasure and the tool it uses is sensory perceptions. It's it is the perceiver. It is the part of us that's constantly taking in information, sensory information and extrasensory information. And it is the source of our unconscious mind. It is our unconscious mind.
Sarah:Got it. That makes sense.
Wendy:So yep. Alright. So that part of us develops in utero, and the over soul might come down and check it out. Usually, does while it's in utero, introducing itself to this body soul. When you're born and you take your first breath, then the seed of the oversoul will come and plant itself in your heart when you take that first breath.
Wendy:And then it will stay with you until you take your final breath, and then it'll separate from the body and reconnect with itself in the upper world. And that at that point, it's pregnant with all your life experience. So we have the body soul. Those first years of your life are just body, soul, and your over soul. So you're super perceptive.
Wendy:You're super in touch with your higher self. You could be very psychic when you're that little, really playful, just taking in, soaking up everything and learning about your environment, your world. And then about age six or seven, you start to grow your third soul.
Sarah:Which is
Wendy:And this is the mental soul, which is probably akin to your ego mind.
Sarah:Yeah. That's often that like first when you're working with people, it's often at that age.
Wendy:Yep. That's where things get messy.
Sarah:Things get messy.
Wendy:And stuck.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:So, yeah, developmentally, that's when you start to develop your sense of self. So that's what the mental soul is your ego. It's who you think you are. So it's the story you start creating about yourself, your identity.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And my name is Wendy. I live at this address. My favorite color is this.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Blah blah blah. And then on and on and on. And that part of us is, like, the inner director. It's the goal setter. It's the source of your intellect.
Wendy:It's motivated by understanding. It wants to answer the question why. Why? Why? And then analyze that answer.
Wendy:And then come up with a plan to, figure out how to get yourself out of that mess.
Sarah:I find this to be the most burdensome of the Yes. Of the whole
Wendy:Yeah. It is. Especially in our culture because we focus on this one Yeah. We really do. So much.
Wendy:And the mental soul, it kinda has that captain's hat on, like, I'm in charge here. I'm gonna take care of this.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:But I think humans are 95 to 99% unconscious when we're awake. And so the the mental soul thinks it's in charge, but really it's the body soul that's in charge, that unconscious mind. So your mental soul is your conscious mind. It's what you're aware of. It's the stuff you you know.
Sarah:When did the Polynesians think of all this stuff?
Wendy:Ancient. It's old. Woah. Isn't that brilliant?
Sarah:Jeez.
Wendy:So and they each are operating independently and they have their own goals. So the mental soul is out there trying to understand everything. The body soul just wants pleasure. It just wants more chocolate and sex and music and and to create. And then the over soul, what it wants is harmony between all three.
Wendy:So the the Hawaiians would say the ideal human is someone who's aware that they have these three aspects of self, that they have these three beings, basically, making up who they are, and that they're aware of each other and that they're working together as a team rather than independently off on their own agendas.
Sarah:Working against each other.
Wendy:Exactly. Yeah. And so that's that's what creates disharmony, and that can cause this.
Sarah:This is lovely. Isn't it beautiful? Yeah. It's really beautiful. I'm I'm gonna be exploring this for sure.
Sarah:I'm really glad we we did this investigation of
Wendy:Oh, good. I'm glad. Yeah. I I'm glad it made the kind of sense to you that it made to me when I heard it. I'm like, oh my god.
Wendy:Of course. That's why we battle with ourselves so fiercely. Like, know better Yeah. And yet you still do it because
Sarah:I still want that chocolate. I still want that heroin. Exactly. Yeah. You,
Wendy:you want me to take it a little bit a little bit deeper for a sec? Yeah. So this is a Wendy thing. I did not learn this. This is just my own conclusion.
Wendy:But each of the worlds in in the shamanic dream time realms, non ordinary reality, the the lower world, middle world, and upper worlds, to me, when you are going to those worlds, you're actually visiting your the soul that is related to that world. So middle world would be mental soul, lower world would be your body soul, and the upper world would be your over soul, your higher self. When you're going to those places and you're perceiving things, you're perceiving them about that part of you. To me, the middle world is stuff you're the way you perceive it, it looks like it does when it's when you're awake. It's very you're seeing the dreaming of the physical universe or the dreaming of the region you live in or whatever.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:So it's stuff you're aware of. Yeah. And then you go into the lower world, that's the unconscious. Right? And then you could also access the collective unconscious Yeah.
Wendy:Unconscious.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Fascinating. Especially when you're doing personal journeys, you're connecting with your own personal like, when I'm doing healing work on behalf of others, I'm going to the lower world to connect with their their lower world world field
Sarah:Yeah. And
Wendy:their their body soul
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Wendy:To see what patterns exist there.
Sarah:Mhmm. I mean, so if I think about my work, it it has pretty much looked like that. You know? Like, when people say, what's the difference between the lower, the middle, and the upper world? I I do say something like this Cool.
Sarah:With just instinctively from from my own work. It's slightly different language, but it's basically the same thing. And if I if somebody's having a particular problem, I do go to the lower world. That's oh, that's a lower world problem. Like, I just instinctively know.
Wendy:Alright. Cool. So maybe I'm on to something. Alright.
Sarah:Yeah. I think so. I think there's something to that for sure.
Wendy:Okay. So, want to chew on that for a minute or two or a week or three?
Sarah:Yeah, let's chew on this. It's very interesting. Yeah, I'll be back with questions.
Wendy:And I will probably be back with questions too.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just can't get over. These are ancient spiritual teachings from the Polynesians.
Wendy:Yeah. That's how I was taught. This stuff has been around. Yeah. Very, very wise people.
Wendy:Wow. And the Hawaiians aren't the only ones who buy into the concept of three souls too. There are other indigenous people who have that idea as well. Some have two souls, some have three souls. But I like the idea of seeing them as independent and that they are
Sarah:Yeah. It's helpful.
Wendy:The idea of them needing to be in relationship with one another in order to be a functioning human.
Sarah:Yeah. It's very helpful. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna work on this for sure and see where it takes me.
Wendy:And I'll I'll continue to work on it.
Sarah:Yeah. Alright. Well, as always, it's been fascinating.
Wendy:So fun. Thank you, Sarah.
Sarah:Thank you, Wendy. Bye.