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Pull up a seat at our table, where badass women from all walks of life—fashion, beauty, design, music, philanthropy, art, and more—come together to share honest stories, serve truths, and dig into the realities of modern womanhood.
Johanna Almstead:
Hello, everyone. If you are a listener to this podcast on a regular basis, you know that it really is an invitation from me to you to join me in conversation and connection in inspiration as we sit and listen to the stories of my guests. So every time I'm preparing for my guest, I like to think about what I would be feeding them for dinner if they were coming to my house.
So my next guest, I have not seen in-person for a very long time, she lives across the country. And I don't know, it's a little crisp here, it's a little cold today, so I'm actually feeling kind of cozy, warm foods. I'm thinking a little Indian today. I'm going to start with some veggie samosas with that delicious raita yogurt dip. And then for the main dishes, we're going to do some moong dal, which is yellow lentil dal, and some good old chicken tikka masala, which I just love. It's still really delicious. I know it's not that exciting to some people, but I think it's really, really, good. And it's not too spicy. I don't always want to do something too spicy. And we'll do a little saag paneer on the side, and some spinach and cheese, and some beautiful aromatic basmati rice.
I also just had this salad recently that was at a new restaurant and it was just really bright, like cucumber, tomato, onion. I think it had lemon juice and salt and pepper. It was really yummy and delicious, and a nice crispy, crunchy, bright contrast to the more stew-y foods. And I'm going to serve, this may be controversial, but I'm going to serve an Oregon pinot noir with this Indian food. Funny, my guest is from Oregon. Right now, she lives in Oregon. And I like a dry pinot noir, because not all of them are dry. Oregon ones are a little dryer. And I like a red wine with my Indian food, call me crazy. I also do like a beer sometimes with Indian food, but I don't really serve beer. Anyway, I'm going to go red.
And for music, again, I'm feeling cozy, mellow vibes. I think maybe a little Nora Jones. I might throw some old white guys in there, maybe a little James Taylor, some Sade, a little Simon and Garfunkel. I don't know, it's what I'm feeling. My next guest is hilarious. She's creative, she's funny, and smart, and delightful. I hope you guys enjoy this conversation as much as I do. Let's dig in.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Eat My Words. We are going to have some fun today. I can tell already, this is going to be a good one. My guest today is goofy, and creative, and smart, and outspoken, and funny. She is the creative genius behind the visual identities of brands like Spring & Mulberry, CASETiFY, and Kate Spade Saturday. She has worked for incredible brands like Vogue, Kate Spade New York, and Bumble and bumble. She has a flair for building brands that are full of charm, spirit, and charisma. She's a wife and a mother, and a Portlander now. Is that how you call it, Portlander, Portlander? And is the founder and creative head of Letter A, a creative branding agency.
Allison Henry Aver, welcome to Eat My Words.
Allison Henry Aver:
Thanks for having me, Jo.
Johanna Almstead:
Thanks for being here. This is going to be fun.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah. I'm so excited to be here.
Johanna Almstead:
Yay! I'm excited to have you.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So I always like to tell people how we know each other. And I was trying to remember, and I might have totally gotten this timeline wrong, but we were at Kate Spade together. And then, did you leave and go to Vogue?
Allison Henry Aver:
And then I came back.
Johanna Almstead:
And then you came back to do Kate Spade Saturday, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Correct.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. We got to work together because we were both in the marketing and communications department of Kate Spade.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And in that particular company, those teams worked very, very, very closely together, so we had a great time. And then we launched a brand together at Kate Spade Saturday.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
So I always like to start with where your journey began, where you would say your journey began. So where would you say your journey began?
Allison Henry Aver:
Ah! Well, I grew up outside of Cleveland, Ohio, and I was always dabbling in lots of different things. Writing my own newspapers, and designing my own clothes and sewing my own clothes, and trying to sell little things I was making. And I loved the whole process of all of that, and I remember when I was little, I had started sewing my own vests.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh, chic! Very on trend this season too, by the way.
Allison Henry Aver:
Super on trend for 1988. I would buy these patterns at Joanne Fabrics, my mom would take me to Joanne Fabrics, and I would buy whatever fabric Joanne Fabrics, and then I would make these vests, and I would pick different buttons. And then I was like, "I'm going to make this a business!" And I called them Investments, and I made little-
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh, cute branding!
Allison Henry Aver:
... hanging tag for them.
Johanna Almstead:
I love it.
Allison Henry Aver:
I wrote a little blurb for them. And I even asked my parents if I could put a table outside our front yard to sell these vests. And that never, ever came to fruition, but I loved the entire process around the thinking of the name, writing all the copy for it, designing a little label, understanding what my model line looked like. I didn't know this was branding when I was doing it, I just enjoyed the process of the entire ecosystem. And then I was like, "How am I going to price these? Whose going to buy them?"
Johanna Almstead:
What are my margins looking like? Wait, how old were you at this time?
Allison Henry Aver:
Sadly, I think I was probably in eight or ninth-grade.
Johanna Almstead:
Why is that sad?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, because it's not cool to be a ninth-grade-
Johanna Almstead:
Is it dorky to be making vests in eight or ninth-grade?
Allison Henry Aver:
Handmade vests.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, I'm sorry. I think it's pretty cool.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, that was an itch that I started, loved to do, but didn't know it was an actual job. But that's where I started. And then I went to Miami University and I got a degree in graphic design because I thought, "Oh, this will be something that allows me to maybe go into marketing or maybe into packaging or writing," or just being around a lot of different interests I had. I didn't really know where I could take this skill. Again, I'm in Ohio, so it's a very narrow mindset of where you live and work, and what the expectations of your-
Johanna Almstead:
Because you went to Miami University in Ohio, not Miami, Florida, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Miami, Ohio.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
And then my first job out of college was at Hallmark Cards, where I worked on Mother's Day cards and birthday cards for four years. And I really learned the power of emotional connection through copy and words.
Johanna Almstead:
So you were designing the cards, the actual imagery and the ... Just copywriting?
Allison Henry Aver:
No, I was not designing the cards and I was not copywriting. I was managing the line of the cards.
Johanna Almstead:
Like a project manager? Or you were managing the sales of the cards?
Allison Henry Aver:
No, no.
Johanna Almstead:
What were you doing?
Allison Henry Aver:
I was an art director on each individual card.
Johanna Almstead:
Got it, okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
So we had a whole line of, "Okay, this is our $3.95 card for son to mother. This is our 2.25 card to anybody." So there was different ranges of emotional spectrum and there was different ranges of design spectrum on all of these, depending on their price point. A higher marked card would get more-
Johanna Almstead:
More emotion?
Allison Henry Aver:
... bells and whistles and more emotion.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, man! You have to pay for emotion.
Allison Henry Aver:
A lower priced card would just be simple.
Johanna Almstead:
Holy shit, guys! You guys! You're paying for more emotion from Hallmark.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
That's crazy. Okay. $1.99 is like, "Yo, happy birthday," and a 3.99 is like, "You're the love of my life, my heart bleeds for you," right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Pretty much.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, got it.
Allison Henry Aver:
And I came from a community that was like, "Why would you go all the way to Kansas City to work at Hallmark? There's a Hallmark Store right in the mall."
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So Kansas City was your big move?
Allison Henry Aver:
It was my big move.
Johanna Almstead:
You moved to the big city to work for this big company. Okay, cool.
Allison Henry Aver:
But it was very influential. There was a lot of people there who worked elsewhere who had come from other jobs. And four years into the role I realized, "Oh, this is it. I'm going to be making cards for the rest of my life," and I can see the writing on the wall of the progression of a career there. And now I look back and I'm like, "That was a fabulous job." My health insurance was paid. But I was watching too much Felicity and I wanted a little bit more angst in my life. I really wanted to walk to a bodega and get my groceries I think.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
And I moved to New York. I looked into graduate schools and I went to graduate school at School of Visual Arts for a degree in writing and design. It was a program around using your creative talent to build your own business.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
Versus thinking of the day that as a designer, you're a risk or a service to somebody else. Rather, how do you use these skills to write your own story? So that was a really influential move, and from there I moved to New York and really jump started my career and almost started over again.
Johanna Almstead:
Wow. So back when you were in Ohio making vests, did you have ... Because you said people didn't leave, going to Kansas City was big. Did you ever have a dream of something bigger? Or what was the idea of success to you back in eight-grade?
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't know, I think it was probably being glamorous and wearing suit or something.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh, yeah. Okay. Was there a geography? Was there a city connected to that?
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't know. No, I really felt like-
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "Maybe in Cleveland. I was wearing a suit in Cleveland with my vest underneath."
Allison Henry Aver:
You've asked this question before and I was like, "Gosh, really there wasn't." No. I really had no understanding of what success or career looked like. I remember that feeling, thinking that after college I was like, "Okay, now what? I did everything I was supposed to do, I checked off all the boxes, and I went to college and I got a job."
Johanna Almstead:
And now what?
Allison Henry Aver:
Now what?
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
Then I had that quarter-life crisis right around then.
Johanna Almstead:
When you were watching Felicity.
Allison Henry Aver:
When I was watching Felicity wondering, "Okay, I did it all, and I still feel like there's more." I didn't really have a vision of success, I just knew I had a vision of I had more potential and I was interested in doing more. And that's the angst that brought me to New York, of where am I going to take this feeling?
Johanna Almstead:
So you get to New York and what was your first job? What did you do? How did you start to build your life in New York?
Allison Henry Aver:
So I was in graduate-
Johanna Almstead:
You went to graduate school first, right.
Allison Henry Aver:
So I was in graduate school for a couple years, so I did a lot of random things. Then luckily, the thing about that program is that the teachers are all working creatives and that gave me a lot of opportunities. I worked for Maira Kalman who used to do M&Co., so I helped her do some things. I worked at a small design studio. I worked at Harry and Abrams and did book design. And then I reached out to one of my professors, Bonnie Siegler, who ran a small design studio called Number Seventeen. And it was run by Bonnie Siegler and Emily Oberman. Emily also worked at M&Co. So the thinking there was very generational from that design studio, and so it was my dream job. I got there and we worked on everything from soup to nuts. From New York City music festivals, to Saturday Night Live titles, to Andre Balazs Hotels, to book jackets, to branding projects, we did it all.
Johanna Almstead:
Amazing.
Allison Henry Aver:
And I also met my husband at this job. He was the freelancer.
Johanna Almstead:
Aw.
Allison Henry Aver:
So that job worked out for me really well. But it was a foundational job to have that as a secondary, almost a secondary graduate school for me. So I worked there for about three-and-a-half years, just getting myself situated to New York City lifestyle and some rigorous, rigorous working.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. And then where did you go after that?
Allison Henry Aver:
So after that, I went to Bumble and bumble, and that was my leap to in-house. And I was really nervous because at that time in the creative community, working in-house was seen as a-
Johanna Almstead:
Were you selling out kind of?
Allison Henry Aver:
Not even selling out. Where the second-tier creative designers went to work.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh. Because if you were good enough, you stayed out at your own agency and you were like a baller?
Allison Henry Aver:
The thinking at the time was agencies did all the great, exciting, sexy work. The in-house team did all the drudgery work.
Johanna Almstead:
And they diluted it and made it not as cool once they came in-house?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Allison Henry Aver:
The reason I went to Bumble was because I knew it was run by Alexander Brebner, who had also come from M&Co., was friends with my boss. I knew that the internal team there was really talented. That it was a brand that was telling stories beyond what they were selling. The team was doing a lot of things beyond just making the donuts of ads or labeling or packaging, but doing events, and activations, and really clever copy, and the forefront of the hair and beauty branding in those days. And I also had to move from a small thing to grow. It was a really hard place to grow at a very small branding agency.
So I moved over to Bumble and bumble, and I started to really understand, "Oh, this is where I love to be." It was my first step into in-house. And when you move in-house, you wear may more many hats than you would wear at an agency. So as a designer, I was suddenly able to influence photography, influence copy, influence naming. Be part of the strategy of the product launches. I was touching everything that the brand was doing and that was really fulfilling for me. So that got me started on this, "Oh, I really want to be in-house because I get to use all these skills."
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. And then you stayed at Bumble and bumble, and then you left. And then that's when you came to Kate Spade?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah. So I was at Bumble for about four years, and I was also on this board of the AIGA, which is the graphic designers organization nationally and I was a chair on this board. And I was responsible for programming and I put together a program around working in-house. So I had Theresa Canning Zast who was the creative director at Kate Spade-
Johanna Almstead:
Who I'm trying to make it on this show. TCZ, are you listening?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, she should come.
Johanna Almstead:
Right? Shouldn't she? Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
And her talk was really inspiring. I was so blown away by the work that the internal team was doing. Like I said, not many people understood how much work an internal in-house team actually produces and how much they're involved with the success of the business. They're not just-
Johanna Almstead:
Churning out ads, yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
... [inaudible 00:15:30] or designers, they are creative problem solvers at the same table with marketing and merchandising, PR. I could see that the creative team was influential and respected at Kate Spade.
I also wisely noticed that both Theresa and her senior design director were pregnant.
Johanna Almstead:
Smart!
Allison Henry Aver:
And I asked her, "Who is taking over your maternity leave?" And she didn't really have an answer and I was like, "I'm going to see what's up with that."
Johanna Almstead:
Wow! Smart.
Allison Henry Aver:
I scheduled a meeting with them a few weeks after not to look too excited, but just excited enough.
Johanna Almstead:
Not to capitalize on somebody's birth and strenuous labor, but whatever. It's okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
So I waited seven days or something. And I was like, "Oh, hey, it's me, Allison. Remember me, from the talk? Would love to meet with you and show you my work, and see if you have any opportunities." I really wasn't planning on quitting my job, but when I went and talked to her and she's like, "Oh, we're looking, we have two people, me and this other woman going on maternity leave and we're going to probably be needing help for at least six months." I just took the opportunity. I quit and went over to Kate and took this freelance nine-month gig, which turned into the best decision I ever made and probably four years of work for the brand and some of my best friends.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. So I love this point of just throwing your hate in the ring. I think for people listening, so many people wait to be asked or wait for the opportunity to fall in their lap, and I think this is such a nice example of just jiving with someone, respecting someone. Meeting someone, and seeing their work, and respecting them, and being excited, just reaching out and sharing your enthusiasm and sharing your willingness to be part of the show, whatever that is. I think that's such a good lesson for people. We have lots of younger listeners who are building their careers now, and if you're listening, I think that's just such a good example of reach out, do the thing, find the people you admire.
Allison Henry Aver:
I tell that to young designers who write me often. I'm in a networking group for young people who want to talk to a creative director. And often, they're very hesitant or nervous about reaching out to people. And I've told them I got all my great jobs by just being a little busy bee. With Number Seventeen, I checked in every few months with them to see if they needed anything. And then finally, one time I checked in and they're like, "Oh, my gosh, we need somebody. Can you start?"
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Allison Henry Aver:
And the same thing with Kate was I was like, "What's the worst that could happen?" And I also had learned by that time senior people are busy. They're running companies, they think about when they need help the minute they need help, not a month before they need help.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, right.
Allison Henry Aver:
So keeping in touch with them, letting them know what you're up to, keeping top of mind is what gets you in because all of a sudden, they need help and you happen to write at that exact same time. And there you go, the connection was made. So don't feel bad about keeping in touch with people you're truly interested in working with.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, for sure.
Allison Henry Aver:
Because they're too busy to remember what [inaudible 00:18:40].
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, it's not personal, they just are busy.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Also, I think especially in the creative fields, I think younger or more up and coming people in their career can sometimes put older, more seasoned people on a pedestal and be afraid because they admire their work so much, and they know that they have this crazy resume, and they can be intimidated, and they can be afraid to reach out or whatever. And I know I sometimes will when I was younger. And I think to your point, think of yourself as an asset to them. Think of yourself as possibly being the help that they need on their maternity leave, or possibly being the help that they need with this huge project that just came across their desk and they don't have enough designers, or whatever it is. I think that's a huge thing, especially if you respect them and put them on a pedestal in your head. Reach out, still do it, don't let that stop you.
Danielle Prescott who was on a few episodes ago talked about, "Let somebody else say no to you. Don't say no to yourself. Don't not do the thing because you're too afraid. Let someone just say no to you, it's fine. What's the worst that can happen?"
Okay, so then you came to Kate Spade. And then you left for a brief interlude at Vogue. Can we talk about Vogue? Was that crazy, was it exciting, was it fun, was it terrifying? Was it all the things? Because I used to work with Vogue on the other side as a publicist, so I have my own feelings about it.
Allison Henry Aver:
It was a huge eye-opener. It was not the job I was expecting it to be and it was not a good fit for me. But gosh, now I know I have a higher threshold for cost of goods.
Johanna Almstead:
For cost of goods?
Allison Henry Aver:
To purchase something.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh. It raised your luxury threshold?
Allison Henry Aver:
It raised my luxury threshold where I don't blink an eye at some price points. Because the job at Kate Spade was freelanced and there wasn't any guarantee that I could keep this job because of the maternity leave, I got called to work at Vogue to be one of their first art directors on the website.
Johanna Almstead:
And when Vogue calls, you pick up, by the way.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean everybody.
Allison Henry Aver:
And you run to Prada that afternoon and get yourself a dress because you have an interview with Anna the next morning and your entire closet is sparkly shoes and pink tanks from working at Kate Spade.
Johanna Almstead:
And you get a blowout. Everyone, make sure you get a blowout.
Allison Henry Aver:
You get a blowout. And I took the role, it sounded really exciting. And what I learned was this is a completely different industry. I had come from Kate where I was part of the conversations around where this brand is going. We were ideating on everything. As a leader, I was heard. I had a wonderful team that we collaborated well with. Every project that came down the pike was juicy and fun, and I was being able to dabble in everything. Copy, the model selection, the copy selection, the style, the imagery. And that is so fun for me to put all those things together and create a world. I then go to Vogue and I am limited to, "Find us 10 pictures of the Olsen Twins eating ice cream."
Johanna Almstead:
Right. So you step into a very well oiled machine that is a legacy brand that you're not ideating much, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Allison Henry Aver:
And I realized when you're in editorial or magazines, designer creative is relegated to a funnel of make it look pretty. The decision makers are the editors who are concepting and ideating. And as a graphic designer art director, I was tasked with making the assets.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, like executing layout stuff.
Allison Henry Aver:
Executing the work.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
And that was not what I had come there to do and not really what I was interested in doing, and nor did I really love that structure of the separation of the talents. So I really realized quickly, I was like, "Oh, this industry's just set up differently." And I don't think they realized that the industries were set up differently, I didn't know the industries were set up differently. That's a huge learning for me going forward, of understanding how creative is integrated into the culture of a company.
Johanna Almstead:
At a publishing house and then at a brand, versus at a brand, yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
Totally. And I didn't know then to even ask that question. I just assumed I would come in and be spurting out my fantastic ideas to Anna and it just didn't work that way. I'll give you-
Johanna Almstead:
What's one ... Oh, sorry, go ahead.
Allison Henry Aver:
You want one juicy story?
Johanna Almstead:
I wasn't even going to say juicy. I was just going to say what's one really good thing you took away from it, is there something? Because I feel like even those hard times-
Allison Henry Aver:
That I just now know who the designers are. I know what Fashion is with a capital F.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
I know those references, I know those campaigns, I know who the photographers are. I know who these influencers are. I remember being in a meeting and someone said, "Allison, if you don't know who this person is, you'll never succeed here." And she was right. You have to know who these women are. Not even just the models, but the socialites, the it girls, the fashion designers, who their team is. It is really important that you know these names and talk about them freely and understand the references we're all talking about when we're mentioning who at Dries van Noten this season, and what collection did Steven Meisel shoot in 1992.
Johanna Almstead:
There's a whole lexicon, there's a whole language.
Allison Henry Aver:
There's a whole lexicon.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes. And it's funny, I was just having this conversation with a young woman who is in college and she's trying to figure out what she wants to do. And I said to her, "If you think you want to work in luxury, do it now." Do it early, do it young, learn the language, learn those price points, learn those fabrics, learn those people, learn those socialites. Do it all when you're really young because then you have it and you have that language in your back pocket. And then you can take it anywhere and you can choose to decide to work at a more mass brand or whatever.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
But it's a much harder change I think. I was lucky because I did it young, too.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
My first job out of college was at Prada. I had to learn every single one of ... I knew the entire Vogue masthead, I knew every socialite, I had to do all of it. And that was a foundation for me, it was a boot camp in luxury goods so I could take that anywhere. But I do think it's a much harder jump to make once you've been out in the world and you're coming in at a more senior position, and you're the one in the meeting being told you don't know who those people are, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
That's hard.
Allison Henry Aver:
But I learned it. It's just like when I went to Kate. Kate Spade loves to reference a lot of vintage fashion photography and vintage aesthetics or vintage models, and I didn't know a lot of these vintage 1950s photographers. So I remember one day, I just went on the internet and I started looking because I would write down these names that they would mentioned and then I would look it up and I made a folder of each photographer's images. So same thing I did at Vogue. When I didn't know who anyone was, I looked them up and started understanding who they were.
And as hard as that job was, it's been completely beneficial in my career now because now I have this broad understanding of the Fashion world with a capital F and how that influences all the work we do. And my clients appreciate that we can talk a similar language. If we're referencing this socialite, we know what her likes and dislikes are. We know a campaign. I'm really grateful that I have expanded my fashion vocabulary because of that job, but I'm also so glad I left it at the time I did.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. So what did you do when you left?
Allison Henry Aver:
So I went back to Kate. And at the same time that was happening, we were starting a brand called Kate Spade Saturday, which was the younger sister to Kate Spade. It wasn't a diffusion brand, but a new way of thinking about the DNA of Kate Spade and how that could be brought to a new audience who may not align with the traditional Kate Spade and who might have a different price point in mind. And maybe, Kate Spade is aspirational for them, but maybe in five to 10 years. So this is a much more casual, lower priced, playful brand than the mainstream Kate Spade. And I was brought on as employee number seven with one of your other podcast guests, Kyle. She was our boss, she was the president of it all. And we literally built that brand from the ground up, from nothing.
And I remember in one of the first meetings that Kyle led with us where we went around talking about, what is this brand, what do we want it to be, what do we want it to sound like, who is it for, what are we, what are we not. I remember sitting there and being like, "This is what I was meant to be. This is-"
Johanna Almstead:
I've made it, this is it.
Allison Henry Aver:
"... everything I ever dreamed of." I love this talk, I love this thinking, I love imagining where this could go. I love that we're talking to a new woman. And it just really felt like we were building something different.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Okay, so this brings me to a very fun ... I've never done this with a guest before, but I was thinking about this because you're a branding person. And for those of you who don't know who are listening, often when you hire a branding agency or a branding person, they will come in with a series of questions that they want their clients to answer to help them articulate what the brand is going to be, or if they're rebranding, what they want it to be. And Allison has one on her website, so I thought it might be fun to turn the tables on you and make you answer some of your own questions.
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, no.
Johanna Almstead:
Because you were doing this, you said this is your favorite thing in the world. You were just doing it in Kate Spade Saturday, and now we're going to do it about you. For one, quick, quick, quick. Okay.
In a few words, your first question is, who are you?
Allison Henry Aver:
Who am I? Ooh. I am a person who loves to build worlds that have personality, purpose, and a point of view.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. Okay. Why do you exist? Question number two.
Allison Henry Aver:
Why do I exist? I guess I exist to bring more joy to the world.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh! Yeah. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Allison Henry Aver:
Joy and pizazz. I'm going to say pizazz.
Johanna Almstead:
Pizazz. Yeah, girl. Lean into the pizazz.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. How are you different?
Allison Henry Aver:
How am I different? I think I bring a lot of emotional depth to things. I bring a lot of genuine ... Can I make genuine into an adjective? Genuosity?
Johanna Almstead:
Gen ... Authenticity?
Allison Henry Aver:
I bring a lot of emotion and genuine feeling to my relationships and my friends and the work I do. What you see is what you get. I think that makes me different because I'm not trying to be something else, or hide, or be fancier, or smarter, or savvier to make you think that. So I'm always working to just even the playing field with people and come to situations as an equal. And so my laughter, my happiness, my interest in you and the things I'm interested in are all very sincere and true.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. And last question on your branding exercise here, where do you want to go?
Allison Henry Aver:
Where do I go? I'm really interested in pushing my potential through my business. I never thought I'd be running my own business. I never thought that I would have the wherewithal to do it. But the more I'm into it, the more I realize, "Oh, I think I can figure these things out." Even the things that seem really hard and overwhelming.
Johanna Almstead:
You're doing it since eight-grade with Investments.
Allison Henry Aver:
I know, but I didn't have a margin sheet. No one paid attention to costs then.
Johanna Almstead:
You didn't have to do an LRP.
Allison Henry Aver:
I had no ROI on that thing. It was completely angel invested by my mom.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, I'm really interested in seeing how far I can take my business, and at my age, and at this stage in our society, and seeing where the potential it has.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. Okay, so for listeners, if you are thinking about starting a brand or a company, go to lettera.xyz and answer these four questions for yourself before you ever think about hiring a branding agency. Because I think it's so important just to think about who you are, why do you exist, why this product exists, what do you need to do, how are you different, and where do you want to go. If you start to do that homework on your own, you're going to be miles ahead of so many other founders who are-
Allison Henry Aver:
The why you are different is really important. A lot of people come to me saying, "Well, we're the best, we've got the best product." I'm just like, "Best isn't different, everyone says they're the best."
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Allison Henry Aver:
We have to really find your niche of what makes you you.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Thank you for indulging me.
So I want to talk about design. What is good design to you? How do you describe good design?
Allison Henry Aver:
Something I tell young designers all the time, that good design is rooted in good typography. And if you understand good typography and understand hierarchy of messaging, it could be the simplest piece of information, but as long as it's easy to read, the person who needs to see it can understand, and the typography is clean and clear, we've got a great foundation. And then everything else is decorative. So I can often tell with something that's good design is that we've started with some good foundational work of typesetting and hierarchy. And those were the hardest things to learn as a young designer, but it really can help you articulate your work and create a great visual foundation for it. Yeah, so I guess good design starts with good typography.
Then next, to me, is a great understanding of color and how color works. The combinations of colors, how colors speak to each other, how color reacts to one another. I've found that it's really hard to find people who understand subtlety in color or nuance in color. And then lastly, imagery and understanding how imagery communicates. What is it saying to you with the emotional feeling that it's evoking?
Then, how do all those three things come together? The words, the color, the imagery, are they creating the feeling that you want to evoke? I've found a lot of times when I'm looking at work, that people are not either reading what it says and not what looking at what the image is next to the copy next to it. And I have to be like, "Look at this is a normal person and does this make sense to you? Can you read this in the right order? Does that copy look great next to this image? Are these speaking to each other? Are they creating a bigger package then if they were working alone?" So those are the things I judge I guess, quote unquote, "good design on," if is those three things are working. And then if it's communicating what it needs to to the respective audience.
Johanna Almstead:
Got it. So you talked a little bit about the idea of now owning your own business and not ever thinking you could do it. Obviously, as a creative and your brain is thinking about color, and copy, and typography, and imagery, how do you balance having to be a businesswoman and run the nuts and bolts of a business? How is that for you?
Allison Henry Aver:
It's really hard because there are some days when I'm sitting here going, "Oh, I really hate project management, but I have to sit and figure out a calendar, and write all the people involved, and make sure they're all ready to get started, and see whenever vacation days are," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or, "Today I have to pay everybody." And, "Today I have to do my expense report." And these things are just a downer.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
They also make my head spin. But at the same time, it is really interesting to understand and see growth or see change, or to document your income or your sales and to see how things have grown. Or document ... I'm documenting LinkedIn likes. These are just normal things that other people did at other jobs I had, and now I have to do those jobs. Part of me is like, "Ugh, boring." But other time, I'm like, "Oh, it really is interesting to see growth or see change through this work."
Yes, it is a bit of a struggle to take on those roles. And there are days I'm like, "Oh, I wish I was just at a job where somebody would just tell me when to start the work. And when things go awry, would just step in and be like, yeah, this isn't in the scope." And then I realize that person is me and I had to put my big girl pants on and get to it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
You know. You know, you've been there.
Johanna Almstead:
I do. I do know. I don't love those moments either. Like, "Where's the boss? Where's the boss? Whose going to come in?"
Allison Henry Aver:
I'm like, "Whose in charge here?"
Johanna Almstead:
"Could someone hire me a freelancer? Where's the CFO?" Yeah. "Someone's got to do an LRP over here. Can somebody take a look at this P&L for me?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, I took those for granted.
Johanna Almstead:
"I don't want to do that." Yeah. So you've had a really exciting and storied career. What are some sacrifices that you've made or that you continue to make to be able to do this and be all the other things you are, which is a wife, and a mother, and a friend, and a family member, all those things? What are some sacrifices you make?
Allison Henry Aver:
Ooh, I don't know if I do make many. I have to say I don't know if I ...
Johanna Almstead:
Wow.
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, gosh, I don't want to sound like a total ...
Johanna Almstead:
No, this is great! Are you kidding me?
Allison Henry Aver:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
This is great!
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't feel like I've had to make ... Let's say, okay, I don't volunteer at lunchtime as much as I used to in first grade.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Allison Henry Aver:
But I wouldn't call that really a sacrifice. I'm already making a yearbook.
Johanna Almstead:
I think it is. You what, what did you say?
Allison Henry Aver:
I'm already making the yearbook, I don't know, for this school.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, yeah, they have their own branding agency at your elementary school, don't they?
Allison Henry Aver:
Okay, there's a meme out there that says, "I dread the day that the PTA finds out I know how to do graphic design," and that happened to me. And then next thing I know, I'm doing the yearbook.
Luckily, I haven't had to sacrifice too much because I have a very supportive husband who can step in when needed. Running Letter A allows me so much more freedom in my career, so I am here as a mom and stepping in for volunteer activities or pickups, and all that. So that feels like it's been nicely managed. Again, I started this agency once my son started kindergarten. Once he started going to kindergarten, the floodgates opened and I had a whole nother world open to me. So it really aligned with that time of my life, so I wasn't full-time mommying anymore and I was able to have a good chunk of time to dedicate towards building a business. So I don't feel like I've had to sacrifice a huge amount because I'm able to control the work really well and be there when I need to for my family, and be there when I need to be for my clients.
When I'm running my own business, I'm available for my clients all the time. So I don't even mind, it's easy for me to do work at bedtime, do work Sunday mornings, and fit all these things in on the quiet times of my other schedule.
Johanna Almstead:
How do you nourish yourself physically, mentally, spiritually creatively? Because you're pouring out a lot, right? For your clients, for your business, for your family. How do you fill your cup back up?
Allison Henry Aver:
I go to New York a lot. Going to New York, or sometimes I hope down to LA. But going to New York or LA just to get a cultural fix. Sometimes living in Portland, I feel like I live under a rock and I'm not exposed to newness or culture quite a bit. So getting there once or twice a year is really helpful for me just to-
Johanna Almstead:
Soak it all in.
Allison Henry Aver:
... pretend I don't have a kid. I like to go to New York because I get my cultural fix, it is fun to be alone, it's fun to see all my friends, and stay out late, and go out and see shows. And just to be able to own my own schedule gives me the kick I need for some nourishment and then I'm good.
Johanna Almstead:
You're good for a while.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Are you dreaming about anything these days? Do you have time to dream? What are your dreams?
Allison Henry Aver:
I've always dreamed about how do I make Letter A into a bigger more self-functioning agency. Not that it has to be huge, but I often walk by cute little office buildings and think, "Oh, I could see myself in there with three or four teams running a project." And I walk in and I've got my cute outfit on, and I'm running a-
Johanna Almstead:
A boss lady with an office.
Allison Henry Aver:
I'm dressing up again. And yeah, wearing my suit. I think about what would it feel like to run an agency at that scale.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
So I dream about what would that look like, what would that take. How much money would I need to make? How many projects do I need? What do I need to staff with that? And that has been on my list I'm working on is how do I grow this to be something a little bit more self-functioning, a little bit on a growth cycle, something that is more well known than it is right now, and where I'm building another tier of talent based here in Portland. Yeah, that's the kind of things I think about.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. What is an achievement that you've done that you're most proud of?
Allison Henry Aver:
I think I'm really proud of the, even though it's been 13 years, the work we did at Kate Spade Saturday. I still get people coming to me telling me how much they loved that brand, how much it spoke to them. At that time, I feel like we were speaking to a different woman that loved fashion, but wasn't being spoken to in the fashion community. And I think now, there's a lot of brands out there that are doing that, it's not so unique. But then-
Johanna Almstead:
At the time it was, yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
At the time, it felt really revolutionary, and to be selling clothes that had this perspective, this silhouette, and this voice that we were putting out there. And it was so much work to start a brand, but I'm really proud of how we created something that was so cohesive through not only the clothes, but the identity, the audience that we attracted, the brand look and feel, the retail execution of it all. It just was so cohesive and tight, and we all understood the assignment.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
And it all just came together so well. So I still look back at that work and I'm like, "Oh, yeah."
Johanna Almstead:
It was good.
Allison Henry Aver:
Before it was good. I have the emails still and I look at those emails sometimes. I'm like, "Oh, that's a good email." But when you're in the midst of it, you're not quite sure how it's landing or how people are reacting. But I look back on that and I was like, "Oh, it was all so tight."
Johanna Almstead:
It's fun now because I feel like it's now become this cult brand that people still are discovering, or people who knew it back then. I definitely get people who are like, "Wait a minute. Oh, my God, Kate Spade Saturday!" I actually still wear a couple pieces from it and every time people are like, "What is that from? What is that?" I wear those weird neoprene-y sweatshirts.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
You know those ones that were squishy? I love them. And every time I wear them people are like, "Oh, my God."
Allison Henry Aver:
Someone yesterday just on a call told me, she's like, "Oh, I still have those pants with the paint on them." And I'm like, "Don't get rid of those pants."
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, yeah!
Allison Henry Aver:
They're really hard to find.
Johanna Almstead:
The paint-splattered pants. Totally. I forgot about those. Okay. Is there something that you once believed about yourself that now at this point in your life, you've outgrown?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, gosh. I remember feeling like if I wasn't the best that I wasn't worth anything. I remember feeling so pressured to be the best designer, to working at the best job, to honing my skills so that I could get really good. And feeling, "Gosh, if I don't get really, really good, I am never going to be hired, no one is going to ever see any value in me. I'm going to work at bad places." It was really important that I worked at good named places.
Johanna Almstead:
Because you were deriving some value?
Allison Henry Aver:
I was like, "Oh, I have to work at the cool agency, otherwise I'm not-"
Johanna Almstead:
Cool.
Allison Henry Aver:
"... worth working here."
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Allison Henry Aver:
Or the cool brand, otherwise it's not worth working here. And I've learned now that my self-worth is not based on if I'm the best graphic designer in the world or the best art director in the world, but I'm bringing other things to the table. But it used to be very, very narrow of what I felt like I could achieve at. And also, that I don't have to be working on the coolest brands to find value in the work I'm doing. And in fact, I've found a lot of value working at lots of different brands and helping people in different categories. And I used to feel like, "Oh, if I don't work at this company, people are going to think I'm no good anymore, or I've sold out, or I've lost my touch."
I don't know. Does that make sense?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
So I derived a lot of that thinking about myself based on what other people saw me doing or judging me on what I was doing. Now I'm just like, "Who needs help? I'll help them. I don't care." I don't care if you're cool or not cool, I think everyone has value these days and I feel like I want to help people with their project, or their identity, or their brand just get better. And to me, it doesn't matter how the outside world perceives them.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think it's interesting because I feel like in so many industries, women in particular, but I suppose I'm not going to speak for men. I'm not even going to try. But women definitely begin to conflate their identity with their job.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And then, there's the added level of being in the fashion and design world.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Where not only is it your job, but it's your job at the right place. And then that place is the thing also that becomes part of your identity. I think that's complicated.
Allison Henry Aver:
Okay, that's a better way of saying it. And I think it hit home for me when I had a baby and then I didn't work for many years. And I thought, "Oh, no!"
Johanna Almstead:
"I'm nobody."
Allison Henry Aver:
"I'm never going to work again."
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
"I'm nobody. Everybody in New York must be like Allison?"
Johanna Almstead:
She's gone to pasture, people.
Allison Henry Aver:
She's dead, yes. I felt that very deeply.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
And felt so much pressure to find a job that would elevate me back into the ecosystem of, "Ooh, she's doing something interesting."
Johanna Almstead:
She's cool and fabulous and doing all the right things.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah. I felt like because I wasn't doing anything that I had lost a lot of my talent, I'd lost a lot of what made me me, that I wasn't good anymore, that I didn't know what I was doing.
Johanna Almstead:
You thought you'd lost your talent? Like your talent would just disappear?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes!
Johanna Almstead:
Think about that. That's crazy.
Allison Henry Aver:
I know, but I don't know.
Johanna Almstead:
No, I know. I get it.
Allison Henry Aver:
It felt really-
Johanna Almstead:
If you think about what you actually just said. Like, "I had a baby and I was afraid I lost my talent." It's like a singer's going to have a baby and not be able to sing anymore? But I'm not judging, I'm saying holy fucking shit, look at the society we're in and that that's how we think. And that's very real, you're not the only person that felt that way, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes, it felt very real and it felt very true. And it felt very if I didn't work really hard, it was going to never appear again.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. Do you think an accountant who has a baby thinks they can't do math anymore? Right? It's fucking nuts that we think this way.
Allison Henry Aver:
Maybe you should have called me 10 years ago when I was-
Johanna Almstead:
I should have called you and been like, "Remember you know how to do shit. You're good at what you do. Even though your boobs are leaking and you haven't slept in three years, whatever, but it's fine." No, but it's crazy.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, it is.
Johanna Almstead:
I think about that a lot.
Allison Henry Aver:
It's took many years to ... I remember being on a call with someone after I started to do freelance again and I remember being like, "Oh, I still know what I'm doing. I remember this feeling."
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
"I remember being-"
Johanna Almstead:
Good at something?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think also, I definitely had this moment where I never ... I guess I did. I must have been afraid that I wasn't good at my job because that probably is what made me work harder. But I wasn't super insecure about my job. I generally felt like I could do things, I knew how to do things. And it was hard, and I worked hard, and I cared a lot about being good and doing a good job. But I think when I became a mother, I was still good at it, but it's really hard to feel like you're succeeding other than just keeping your child alive, right? You're not getting external validation. You're not getting anyone whose impressed by you. You're not getting much. And I think that took a big toll on me. Like, "Wait, do I even know how to do anything? This is so fucking hard and I don't even know if I'm doing this right, and maybe I don't know how to do anything ever again in my life."
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah. Also, we moved to Portland at the same time, so I felt very far away from-
Johanna Almstead:
What you knew, yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
... New York, my community, and that lifestyle. And we moved here right when I had my son and it was a big shock to the system. And I remember he was a newborn and we were shopping at this mega grocery store at 10:00 in the morning and I was just crying, walking down the aisles being like, "What happened to my exciting life?" And feeling like all of you in New York were having this fabulous time doing hard things and cool things, and I'm here having to make dinner every night. And that was just a really hard space to go to, and I really thought that was the rest of my life, was this lifestyle.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
This, I think I have grown out is realizing that wherever I am in that place is temporary and can change, and it doesn't determine me or define me forever.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Allison Henry Aver:
It was just a spot in my life. And now I look back and I'm like, "That was totally untrue, all those things were untrue. We're at a totally different place now." And I wish I had known then that those feeling are temporary and that who I am down deep inside is still there and it comes back.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. Yeah. And that, I don't know, I look back at that time and wish I could have enjoyed it a little bit more, instead of worrying about what I was missing out on, too.
Allison Henry Aver:
Same.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. It's hard. Hard to be in the present in those moments. Is there anything that you've said no to that you wish you said yes to?
Allison Henry Aver:
No. I think we started at the beginning, I've always been someone who jumped at opportunities regardless if I knew how they would pan out and not scared that they would say no to me.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't think just jumped at, I think you created your own opportunities it sounds like, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Well, that's a nice way of saying it, yeah. Even coming to New York was very intimidating for me, but I knew I had to do it. And I look back and I'm like, "Oh, I could see how some people would not do that." Because it's frightening to move, it's frightening to sell all your things. It's frightening to leave a full-time job that your parents are like, "This is a fabulous job, why would you ever leave it?" But I've always landed on my feet, but it's through a lot of hustle and determination. But not yet have I ever said no to anything.
Johanna Almstead:
That's good.
Allison Henry Aver:
Maybe that's the problem.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe that's the problem. The takeaway from today is have I ever said no and should I start saying no?
Allison Henry Aver:
Even the Vogue thing, I was like, "Oh, that wasn't great, but I got something out of it that was helpful."
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think there are certain types of people who, a lot of them come on this podcast, who don't say no to a lot of things. And I think that that's why you have the life that you have, right? A lot of the times it's you could have said no. You could have said no to Hallmark, to Kansas City. You could have said no to New York, you could have said no to lots of things and you didn't.
Allison Henry Aver:
I guess I'm always up for an adventure.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I think that's good. Okay, we've now hit the point in this interview, which is very, very exciting, and sometimes apparently very stressful for people.
Allison Henry Aver:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
The lightning round of silly questions, I hope it's not stressful for you. I feel like you're going to be really good at this. Do not overthink it, this is just a little adventure. Favorite comfort food?
Allison Henry Aver:
Chocolate ice cream.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh! That's a new one. Are you an all year round ice cream eater? I'm a fair weather ice cream eater, so I'm just wondering. Do you eat it all year round?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, I'll eat it anytime.
Johanna Almstead:
I usually have chocolate ice cream. Do you put anything on your chocolate ice cream?
Allison Henry Aver:
No, I don't put anything on my chocolate ice cream.
Johanna Almstead:
No. My dad used to take the cans of Planter's cocktail peanuts.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
And he would pour them on his chocolate ice cream.
Allison Henry Aver:
I can see that. Pretzels on ice cream are also very good. But no, I'll just eat the ice cream.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. What is something you are really good at?
Allison Henry Aver:
What is something I'm really good at? Trivia. Did you know I was on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
Johanna Almstead:
You what? Holy shit. How did we get to this far into this interview and I did not know that about you.
Allison Henry Aver:
You didn't know?
Johanna Almstead:
Clearly, my research department has not done their job.
Allison Henry Aver:
I think it was really before major internet access.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, what the fuck? You were on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes. I had a friend at the job I was at who went and she's like, "I've got a-
Johanna Almstead:
Was this when you were at Hallmark?
Allison Henry Aver:
No, no, I was here in New York.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
I was like, "How did you pay for your apartment?" She was like, "My husband and I went on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire." I was like, "Well, that's how I'm going to get an apartment." And they film in the Upper West Side at, was it ABC Studios? Was it ABC? I can't remember.
Johanna Almstead:
Is that CBS, the one that's up there?
Allison Henry Aver:
CBS? It was 58th or something. And they have tryouts once a year that you would go and you would take a little Scantron trivia test. And I passed that, and then I had a little interview with a producer. I figured out, I was like, "I'll probably have a good chance because I think I come across as fairly sane and normal, and I'm local." So it happened. They're like, "We have a cancellation, can you come up tomorrow and be on the show?"
Johanna Almstead:
Shut up.
Allison Henry Aver:
So I did it.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, Sophie, producer, we have to find the clips of Allison on the show.
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't think they exist.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you have them? Do they exist?
Allison Henry Aver:
They were on my Venmo. Not Venmo, what is it called? Devo?
Johanna Almstead:
What? Vimeo?
Allison Henry Aver:
What was that where you can record your TV a long time ago?
Johanna Almstead:
DVR?
Allison Henry Aver:
DVR? It was in my DVR.
Johanna Almstead:
Your Venmo. Oh, my God, you're 100-years-old. "They were on my Venmo." Guys. They were on her DVR.
Allison Henry Aver:
Tivo, my Tivo.
Johanna Almstead:
Tivo. Oh, okay. Tivo, yeah. You don't have them on Tivo anymore. Come on, we got to find them.
Allison Henry Aver:
I have a newspaper clipping from my hometown newspaper that they put it on.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my God, you have to send that. Send that to us, please.
Allison Henry Aver:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
Did you win?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, I won $50,000.
Johanna Almstead:
Jesus! That's a lot of money!
Allison Henry Aver:
I know!
Johanna Almstead:
Not enough to buy an apartment, but-
Allison Henry Aver:
No, not enough to buy an apartment.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
Sadly. But it paid for renovation, so yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
That's crazy. I love that fact. That is a really good fun fact about you. I think I need to start asking people what their fun fact is because that one, I really wish we had gotten into earlier.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, so trivia. Every time I go to a trivia night or something like that, I'll feel like I'm just in my element because I'm like, "Here's a use for all this information I have in my head."
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, so just two nights ago, I was at my daughter's curriculum night and the world languages team made us do Cahoot. Do you guys know Cahoot? It's an online trivia thing. They made us do a trivia and I got second place and won a pencil. I would just like to say.
Allison Henry Aver:
Congratulations.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you. It was big. But it was very interesting because people kept being like, "Why do you know all that shit?" Theirs was based on languages and I am a communications person.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And took Latin, and French, and Italian, and Spanish, so I should know languages. But also, I grew up in a Trivial Pursuit household. Did you? Did you guys do trivia as a kid?
Allison Henry Aver:
They were more Jeopardy.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Yeah, we were Jeopardy, too. But we were very into Trivial Pursuit. And my dad was very competitive and expected you to show up, ready to play.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes!
Johanna Almstead:
Are you good at weird pop culture trivia, too? Because I'm not as good with the, "Who was so-and-so's boyfriend on 90210?" And that kind of stuff.
Allison Henry Aver:
It depends. I remember they asked me a question at trivia I think about Scrubs and I was like, "I don't watch Scrubs."
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, Scrubs with Zack Braff.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah. I could tell you all about vintage stamp collecting, I knew that answer.
Johanna Almstead:
Wait, what was the question about vintage stamp collecting? Because I need to know what the hell.
Allison Henry Aver:
It was about which of these stamps was produced incorrectly and now is worth a lot of money, and it's called the Inverted Jenny. It's an airplane that was on these stamps that they printed upside-down. It's one of the most valuable stamps ever.
Johanna Almstead:
So it looked like the plane was flying upside down?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes, it looked like the plane was flying upside down. And I knew that answer because-
Johanna Almstead:
Why did you know that, because you worked at Hallmark?
Allison Henry Aver:
Because I had a stamp collection when I was little and I used to read about stamp collecting. And I just remember, it stuck in my head.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my God.
Allison Henry Aver:
But I did not know what the theme song to Scrubs was.
Johanna Almstead:
What was the theme song to Scrubs? I don't know.
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't know. Someone write in.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, man. Someone will tell us.
Allison Henry Aver:
But that's the thing about Jeopardy and all those game shows is that you can't study for them, you can't know. They even tell you this, it's so random. So you just have to know your pocket and hopefully you get far enough with the pocket of information you know.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my God.
Allison Henry Aver:
And a good guesser, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I feel like critical thinking is important. You got to narrow down your options.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, this is my favorite new fun fact about you and I feel like we need to do something with this in the future. I think you need to put it on your website as part of your CV, please. Okay, now we know you're really good at trivia. What is something you are really bad at?
Allison Henry Aver:
Ooh, anything that has to do with Excel or spreadsheets where I have to input numbers because I don't trust it and then I have to re-add it on my calculator.
Johanna Almstead:
You don't trust the formulas?
Allison Henry Aver:
No!
Johanna Almstead:
She's like, "Hold on while I get my abacus, and I'm just going to do that math one more time." If I build the formulas, I don't trust them. But if someone else builds them, I trust them.
Allison Henry Aver:
So yeah, things that require spreadsheets. Project management, money, I get in that program and I'm like, "Ah!" And I feel very insecure with the work I'm doing there.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, I understand that. I can relate to that very deeply. It just gives me hives. I don't like it, I don't want to do it.
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't like it, but I got to do it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, you do got to do it. Favorite word?
Allison Henry Aver:
I think I've said it, pizazz.
Johanna Almstead:
Pizazz. I like it.
Allison Henry Aver:
I also like jazzy. It's a good adjective to describe things.
Johanna Almstead:
Jazzy? Yeah. I like jazzy. I say jazzy a lot, actually. I feel like it makes me sound dorky and dated sometimes, but I feel good now that I know that you think it's fun.
Allison Henry Aver:
I wonder how much of my language makes me feel dated? I've thought about that.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't know. I say it to my kids and they just look at me like, "Mom, I don't know what you're saying. Jazzy?" I'm like, "Come on, you know, it's like jazzy."
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
They're like, "Bro, no. No, bro."
Allison Henry Aver:
That's my least favorite word.
Johanna Almstead:
Bro? That was my next question was your least favorite word.
Allison Henry Aver:
My son says it-
Johanna Almstead:
Bro.
Allison Henry Aver:
... all the time and I'm like, "Not appropriate, not a word."
Johanna Almstead:
I'm like, "You're not allowed to call me bro." No.
Allison Henry Aver:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, least favorite word, check.
Allison Henry Aver:
Also, he doesn't use it correctly yet.
Johanna Almstead:
How does he use it?
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't know. I guess maybe that's how you use it, is it just use it as a filler.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes, they do. They just use it all the time. It's just like, "Bra, bra."
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes. I'm like, "What?" Okay. That word makes me feel icky when I hear it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. What's your least favorite food?
Allison Henry Aver:
Ooh, pickles and olives.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Allison Henry Aver:
Pickles touching my food, yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Like vinegar, do you not like vinegar?
Allison Henry Aver:
Anything, yeah, in that family.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, I don't know if we can be friends.
Allison Henry Aver:
Sorry, I know.
Johanna Almstead:
I would eat a pickled tennis shoe. I love pickled anything. Okay. Do you have any hobbies?
Allison Henry Aver:
I feel like building my business is my hobby.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh! That's nice.
Allison Henry Aver:
And I enjoy learning how to build a business better, so I enjoy learning how to run the business. I enjoy working with people on how to make my spreadsheets. I really have enjoyed learning how to understand profit and margin, and all these things that totally used to make me want to roll my eyes and leave the room. Now I'm very invested in how to be savvier and smarter and how to understand it because it helps me when I speak to people about money. And I can be more confident in something that I was very not confident about. So that is my hobby.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. I think by definition, that's not a hobby, but I'm really happy for you.
Allison Henry Aver:
No? Okay, I'll give you another hobby.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that's considered work, isn't it?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh. I like to bake.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, there you go. What do you like to bake?
Allison Henry Aver:
I like to bake muffins, and bread, and cookies, and brownies, and Buche de Noels at Christmastime.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh.
Allison Henry Aver:
And I like to ride my bike.
Johanna Almstead:
See? Those are hobbies.
Allison Henry Aver:
I like to read, and I like to collect little souvenirs from my trips, and I like to go to fancy hotels.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh! I want that to be my hobby, going to fancy hotels. I love fancy hotels.
Allison Henry Aver:
I know!
Johanna Almstead:
See? Those are hobbies. Yay. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't know. Maybe something my dad always used to say was, "Show up." Even if you're not the best, just show up and go to the event, go to the talk, go to your job. Just keep showing up and being 100% there. I do think that turns into something, and that consistency, and that commitment to the work, or whatever you're doing. And not just giving up. Because there's been many times where I've been like, "I don't feel like going to this thing," or, "I'm nervous about it," or, "I feel tried." Part of me is like, "Just go, just show up, you don't know who you're going to meet, you don't know what advice you're going to get from it, you don't know where that's going to take you." I see that as the first step to anything you're unsure about.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that's great advice.
Allison Henry Aver:
Getting there and putting yourself in the room with other people.
Johanna Almstead:
Just show up and be there fully. Yeah, I think that's great. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be? Sometimes I try, I make my own preconceived notions of what I think people are going to say and sometimes I'm kind of right, and I do not have one for you.
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't know. Gosh. Maybe I'm granola or something.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh! I like it. A little crunchy.
Allison Henry Aver:
A little nutty.
Johanna Almstead:
A little nutty.
Allison Henry Aver:
A little sweet.
Johanna Almstead:
A little sweet. Textured.
Allison Henry Aver:
Better in the morning.
Johanna Almstead:
Better in the morning, but can be versatile during the rest of the day.
Allison Henry Aver:
I didn't even think about that. You can mix it up.
Johanna Almstead:
Good to put in a lot of things. Okay, I like it. I like it. Okay, so it's your last supper, you are moving on to the next realm, whatever that may be. It's not sad, it's a joyful occasion. You've graduated from this life and you're moving on. What are you eating tonight?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, gosh, I don't know. Oh, maybe Shake Shack with a milkshake.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you remember, were you at Kate Spade when the Shake Shack opened in Madison Square Park?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, yes!
Johanna Almstead:
And people were waiting in line for hours for french fries and milkshakes.
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, I remember staying at the offices and waiting, and watching the Shake Shack cam to see when it was going to go down.
Johanna Almstead:
There was a Shake Shack cam?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, that you could watch the line and then running out there.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, my God. Okay, so what's your order from Shake Shack? Now I need to know.
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, I just like the regular single burger with cheese and raw onions, and the milkshake, and the crunchy fries.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
It's so good! It's perfect.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Are you drinking anything with this meal, or is your milkshake your drink?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, I love iced tea, so I'll have an iced tea with it, but the milkshake is fine.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
But if it's my last supper, I'm just going to eat all the good stuff that I like.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, what else?
Allison Henry Aver:
Like chocolate ice cream.
Johanna Almstead:
Chocolate ice cream after the milkshake, okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
Chocolate ice cream. I make a Buche de Noel every Christmas, which is a little Yule log French cake. I bake it every year for Christmas, but then I always make one just for me to eat that I keep in the refrigerator.
Johanna Almstead:
And that's chocolate cake?
Allison Henry Aver:
A little chocolate cake roll with a whipped cream interior. It kind of looks like a big Ho-Ho.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
But I make it every year, I've been making it since I had to bring it to French Club in seventh-grade. So now, I make four a season, four or five a season.
Johanna Almstead:
So you would have one of those? Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
I'd eat one of my own Buche de Noels. Yeah, with my chocolate ice cream.
Johanna Almstead:
Love it. That sounds lovely.
Allison Henry Aver:
I know. I like sweets.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, clearly. Have you ever had a moment in your life where you've had to eat your words?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, I think you know the answer to this. Something I've been working on, I feel like I've run so fast and loose that I spurt out things.
Johanna Almstead:
Run fast and loose, I love it. Okay, sorry.
Allison Henry Aver:
That my bluntness has gone the wrong way.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
And my straightforwardness has been taken the wrong way. And I realized that not everyone wants to hear things as straightforward as I tell them. So I have really tried over the years to slow down when I'm talking or slow down when I'm writing an email, and couch it or reframe it in a way that is a little bit more palatable. So that I'm not later being told, "Oh, the way you said that didn't come across as the way you thought it came across." And that I'm not angering anybody or making them feel uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's been probably the biggest thing that I've had to think about or work on is the tenor and the content of what I say so that I'm coming across as the leader I want to be and the friend I want to be. And not damaging relationships along the way because I've had my handful.
Johanna Almstead:
Got it. Okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
Too embarrassing to talk about, oh.
Johanna Almstead:
No, we've all had them. We've all had them. If you could eat only one food for the rest of your life, I feel like I might know the answer to this now, but what would it be?
Allison Henry Aver:
Chocolate ice cream.
Johanna Almstead:
Chocolate ice cream. Oh, I was going to say the Buche de Noel, but okay.
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, I guess I could have that, too. Chocolate ice cream is just easier to get. I'd have to make the Buche de Noel.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, in this world I just appears so you don't have to worry about it. It's just there.
Allison Henry Aver:
Well, I'll say both then.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, great.
Allison Henry Aver:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
Buche de Noel with a side of chocolate ice cream. Where is your happy place?
Allison Henry Aver:
I'm going to say New York, New York City.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
Every time I go, I feel like I'm coming home. Getting to New York was such an accomplishment for me, and succeeding there was something I never thought I was capable of or it was expected of. So to have gone as far as I did there was very meaningful. So when I go back, I feel like I am seeing my history or formative years run by me. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I'll be walking on the street and like, "Oh, that's where I had my 30th birthday party." Or, "I went to dinner there with somebody." Or, "There's where the restaurant where we had that brand party there or that event there." Just walking around makes me feel like I'm reminiscing a lot. And I also feel like I come back and I'm reminded of a lot of my past and how I got to where I am, so it feels very comforting for me to go back and very enriching for me as well.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you have a list of places that you always have to go when you come? Places that you are like, "I have to get this sandwich at this place, or I have to go have a glass of wine here, or I have to eat a Buche de Noel somewhere there?" Or I have to go to this museum.
Allison Henry Aver:
No. But I do things that I can't normally do in Portland, which is I do get to go to museums, I do go to see shows. I love Broadway. I wish I had been a Broadway star. And so I go and I feel a little bit of envy, but I love seeing theater and I love seeing the shows. And I love going to the Met and just hanging around there by myself, or seeing whatever exhibits. So I try to take it all in.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
I don't get a lot of that on a day-to-day basis. And I realized when I lived there how much newness and culture and inspiration just soaking up on a daily basis just by living there and you notice it when it's not part of your day-to-day life. Then I see all my old friends and it's just a delight. So I take it all in and whatever comes comes.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world? You're meeting a new client, you're actually leaving your house, you're going to New York, you're going to LA. Whatever it is, you have a power moment or a big moment, what do you wear?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, I don't know. Usually a good white button-down looks pretty good on me. I also love a turtleneck because I love to be cozy and warm.
Johanna Almstead:
I love a turtleneck. What did you have for dinner last night?
Allison Henry Aver:
The leftover pasta from three days ago. So my husband is out of town this week, so when he's out of town, we can just have random dinners.
Johanna Almstead:
I love random dinners, yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
Random dinners of whatever's around. Sadly, that's what we ate because I didn't really feel like cooking, my son didn't really care. I put some extra cheese on that old pasta and he was happy.
Johanna Almstead:
Happy as a clam.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I often call them snacky dinners. "Guys, you know what we're doing tonight? We're having snacky dinner," which means a bunch of a random shit on a plate.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was random and I had been eating randomly all during the day. So it was just a little bit of, "Let's heat this up and we'll all just snack from this bowl of pasta." But yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I like it. What's your go-to coping mechanism on a bad day? You're having a hard time, things are going sideways. What do you do?
Allison Henry Aver:
Besides eat that chocolate ice cream?
Johanna Almstead:
That could be it.
Allison Henry Aver:
I know, it's a bad habit.
Johanna Almstead:
You'll get up from your desk and just go eat chocolate ice cream?
Allison Henry Aver:
No, I don't do it as much as I used to. I think I go to bed.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah? Even in the middle of the day?
Allison Henry Aver:
I think I'll just lay down, yeah. I'll take a little nap or a rest, or zone out on Wordle or something like that, just to get my mind off of it. Vent to my husband, vent to somebody else.
Johanna Almstead:
I love a good vent.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Allison Henry Aver:
Find someone who will listen to me complain for 20 minutes.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, that's important.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah. A good night's sleep helps it go away and start again.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, a good night's sleep is huge. Shut it down, that's what I say.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
What is your dream dinner party guest list? Dead or alive, you can have as many people as you want. And they're going to accept your invitation by the way, they automatically come. Whose coming?
Allison Henry Aver:
I think it's just all my good friends. I feel like I'm too stressed out to start a new conversation with somebody else that I haven't met. "So, Tina Fey, tell me," blah, blah, blah.
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "I am too stressed out to invite Tina Fey to my dinner party."
Allison Henry Aver:
I was like, "Oh, I'd love Amy Pohler to show up."
Johanna Almstead:
No offense, Tina Fey, if you're listening. You're invited, she's just kidding.
Allison Henry Aver:
I guess I just don't want the awkwardness. I'd love it if Amy Pohler was my best friend, I would invite her. But really, I just want something where we all know each other. I want to invite Katie, and Megan, and I have a great moms' group here and we all love to roll their eyes at being a mom sometimes. And all the people I used to work with at Kate Spade. Kiera, and Emily, and you. That would make my heart happy, is just to have all these people in my life who've come through with me these last 20 years are sitting there reminiscing. I don't want to have to go through the conversation of having to introduce people or small talk.
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "Mother Theresa, thanks for trying to crash my party, but I don't have the energy to talk to you. Michelle Obama, thanks, but no. We're not accepting new guests tonight."
Allison Henry Aver:
It doesn't sound fun to me. I know those are amazing people, but what sounds fun to me-
Johanna Almstead:
No, I love this. It's your party, you could do whatever you want.
Allison Henry Aver:
... is the people I care most about sitting there with me.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. Yeah. Okay, my last and final question. What is one thing you know for sure right now, just now in this moment today?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh. I guess, I don't know, I don't even know what else to say to this. I think right now, I think I say this a lot, is you get what you put into things. So work begets work, energy begets energy, optimism begets optimism, enthusiasm begets enthusiasm. Putting your energy and your intuition and your feelings into something results in something happening. I feel like when I'm doing things that I'm not quite sure of is this the right thing to do, should I be doing this, I just put energy to it, I put work towards it, I see where that takes it because that's the only thing I know how to do. It's calling to me, it's telling me to do something with it, pay attention it and see where it goes. And then that gives me the answer of whether it's worth pursuing further, it opens up doors, it might bring some insights.
But if you don't do anything, nothing is going to happen. If you just sit here and surmise, or worry, or question, or should I do this or should I do that? I feel like the only way to find out is to start, put energy towards it, work on it, and see where it goes.
Johanna Almstead:
That's beautiful. I think that's really good advice.
Allison Henry Aver:
Does that make sense?
Johanna Almstead:
Please tell the nice people who are listening where they can find you if they would like to find out more about your branding business, where they can find you on social media.
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, sure. My name is Allison Henry Aver. I'm on Instagram @allisonhenryaver. That's Allison with two Ls. Then I'm on, my business is called LetterA.xyz. And we're also on Instagram as well.
Johanna Almstead:
And you're on LinkedIn?
Allison Henry Aver:
Oh, I am all over LinkedIn.
Johanna Almstead:
You are, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
You're a LinkedIn person.
Allison Henry Aver:
It's working for me.
Johanna Almstead:
Good! I'm glad.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah. That's right. I just put energy towards it and it comes back to you.
Johanna Almstead:
And it works.
Allison Henry Aver:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Are you under your personal, your name, or you under the branding agency?
Allison Henry Aver:
Both.
Johanna Almstead:
Both? Okay. So she's on LinkedIn, people. And her website LetterA.xyz, right?
Allison Henry Aver:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
I remember it.
Allison Henry Aver:
I'd love to talk to anyone, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking the time and trusting me with this process and being so open and joyful throughout this conversation. I've really, really enjoyed being here with you today, and I know that there's people out there who are listening who are going to feel the same way. So thank you for being here.
Allison Henry Aver:
Well, thanks for having me. I have been enjoying this podcast, you have always made me laugh ever since we worked together. And I've always appreciated how candid you were and straightforward, and your commentary always made me laugh. So thank you so much for having me.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, that was fun. I hope you guys enjoyed hearing her stories as much as I did, and I hope you guys learned something. I hope you felt inspired to try something or to just show up to the next thing. As always, I thank you, thank you, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you for helping us ask the hard questions and waiting for the hard answers.
If you've not done so already, please subscribe to the podcast. Please follow us on Instagram and TikTok. And as you're listening to the podcast, if you can, download it. Those download numbers actually matter for us to grow this platform. So sometimes, the listening ones don't matter as much as the downloads. So please download each episode, share it with your friends. As you all know, we're trying to grow this community bit by bit and you guys are helping us do it every day. So if you listened to this and you think somebody you know might be able to benefit from it or might enjoy it, or might just have a laugh, please send it to them. You can send it over Instagram, you can send it over text, you can send it all different ways. You can go in and copy the link and paste it in a text or an email, or anything you want.
Again, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for helping us build this incredible community of incredible people, and I will catch you on the next one. This podcast has been created and directed by me, Johanna Almstead. Our producer is Sophy Drouin. Our audio editor is Isabel Robertson. And our brand manager is Mila Boujnah.