DH Nina Grondin
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Dan Ryan: Today's guest is a designer and entrepreneur and a creative thinker board member of the hospitality diversity action council, founder, and partner at Curioso ladies and gentlemen, Nina Grondin, welcome Nina.
Nina Grondin: And it's really nice to be on. I appreciate it.
Dan Ryan: I'm so glad that you're on too. And I really enjoyed the friendship that we have developed over the past couple of years and just seeing.
Not just the cool projects that you're working on, but also kind of the different calls to action that [00:01:00] you're championing within our industry. And I just want to say, I appreciate you, and I'm so glad that you're giving up your time to share with us.
Nina Grondin: And I really appreciate that and I appreciate the same with you as well.
I feel. I don't know, we connected over what may be the fact that we're both like comfortable being uncomfortable and having some deep conversations. Um, but I also feel like you're one of those people that, you know, stretches beyond your core focus within the hospitality space and really tries to foster a community and do things like this podcast.
And, you know, also calls to action in terms of just like making this industry better and bringing us closer together. So I really appreciate that about you.
Dan Ryan: Well, thank you. And so going on to like, thinking about the hospitality industry and kind of are the causes that we champion and how we, wherever we are and whoever we around that there's this desire to make it better.
Right. I think that that's like a mutual, uh, [00:02:00] feeling and drive that we both have. So as we're thinking about that and, and talking about that in this discussion, like, how do you define hospitals?
Nina Grondin: Yeah. I actually think those things are completely connected. Um, because when I think about hospitality, it's really.
One person attending to the needs of another person, but doing it with thoughtful intention and doing it in a way that makes them feel welcome. It makes them feel appreciated. It makes them feel seen. And I think, it's really about that human connection. And so it's not really hospitality. it's not.
really Defined or confined to hotels and restaurants and bars, but really at any place where humans reside. And I think that ability to really make one another feel good and feel appreciated that'swhat hospitality is all about.
Dan Ryan: [00:03:00] It's interesting. How, in many of the conversations that I've been having, I've been hearing a lot of.
Becoming a better, more openhearted listener. And I feel like it's helping me evolve in what I do, but actually you were the first person and just what you said right now, where it was to be seen. So tell me about that. Like, how do you mean to, like, you want people to feel seen, like walk me through that thought process.
Nina Grondin: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, we as humans and I, and you'll probably appreciate this, but like we, we look for love. We look for appreciation, we look for, um, people to acknowledge us and to acknowledge the fact that we are here and who we are. And I think that, especially now there's so many. Times when we're kind of just like walking through life and we're kind of focused on our own worlds and we're not necessarily seeing those around us, but when you actually do like make eye contact with someone, right.
Or really, [00:04:00] um, you know, ask them genuinely, how was your day? And like, make them feel heard. There is such a lovely. Feeling that you get from somebody else acknowledging your presence. Um, and I think, you know, that's something that we look for since childhood, but it's also something that adults are looking for and just everyone, like you just want to be seen in the world.
And so I really think hospitality plays a big piece in that.
Dan Ryan: And then if you think about your vocation, right? So you're designing these amazing spaces and hotels and restaurants and homes and everything in the built environment. How do you envision how your clients want to be seen or the customers that they want to be drawn in there and how they want to be seen?
How do you kind of approach that process?
Nina Grondin: Yeah, so I think what's really interesting about that is that the design itself is not going to make the guests see. What the design can do is that it can create the [00:05:00] circumstances and the conditions for the hotel team and staff to make the guests feel seen, right?
Like, cause this is hospitality is human based. And so that you could design the most beautiful space in the world. But if somebody's going to get great service and great hospitality and those human connections that's and so a lot of the work that we do is really catered towards. The operator and their team members, right?
Like how do we make sure that we design a space where your front desk agent is able to make great eye contact with the person who's checking in is able to, um, you know, feel comfortable, is able to maybe come around the guest, come around the desk and help, um, deliver a package or help the guests with their, their luggage or whatever it is.
Being able to use design as a way to, um, let your team like your hotel operations team, be their best and [00:06:00] deliver the best service. That's where. We focus a lot of our efforts and of course it's going to be beautiful and it's going to be, you know, an interesting space, but that's almost like that's table stakes, you know, but designing for that human experience and that like connection between your team and the person who's checking in or dining in your restaurant, or, you know, even just like coming over to your house, like how do we make sure that they, you guys are able to connect in that way?
Dan Ryan: And when you're talking. About that moment of eye contact. That's kind of what I picked up from you. It also feeds into just being seen and feeling that you're being seen. How do you kind of set the table if you will, so that you can focus on that moment of eye contact?
Nina Grondin: Yeah, I mean, there's barriers, right?
Like making sure maybe it's a matter of. You know, reassessing your computer screen into the table to op or, uh, so that you don't have this kind of like barrier in between you and the, the guest. It could be [00:07:00] anything like, I mean, Mirrors being placed strategically within a restaurant setting so that even if your server is walking away from you and you need something and your hand is held up in the air, they can see that as a reflection in the mirror and they can come back and attend to you.
Um, even from like, you know, a bartender bar equipment design, there's a guy, uh, that I heard. Years ago, his name is Tobin Ellis, and he's this kind of like fantastic, um, bar consultant. And what he always talked about was like the location of your drink. Well, for the bartender and making sure that every single station is exactly.
The same because your bartenders learned from muscle memory. And so they could be making the most complicated drink in the world, but they know exactly where to reach and where to get everything. And so if you're able to do that, then they can keep eye contact with you as the guests, and they can be chit chatting with you and asking you how your day was as they're making your drink.
And so thinking about all of those small [00:08:00] elements of how somebody actually does their job to allow them to feel. That mindspace did actually then connect with the guests like that I think is super important.
Dan Ryan: And oftentimes as a guest or checking in, we just don't feel seen. We don't feel acknowledged.
It feels like a very scripted, um, experience, but the, the, the conversations that I'm having, when that script gets thrown away and you can really break down and hit here and see who you're speaking to. Um, oftentimes that, that. Settles everyone down. It makes everyone feel at ease. So when you are thinking about that, and as far as your design process and getting everyone to just relax and just be there, like what drives you to do that?
Nina Grondin: Um, well I think one, what drives me to do that? I, I, and you're the same way, just like in nature. Lot of human connection, right? Like we [00:09:00] love, I mean, we're tribal people. We grew up with like, you know, our ancestors grew up in villages were meant to be with one another. Um, we're meant to support one another and to, and to connect with other humans.
And I feel like, especially in maybe some urban settings, that's very difficult, right? Like you look in an apartment building and you look at all of these little boxes that we've put ourselves into. Um, and a lot of times that can seem very lonely. And so, um, this desire to create community and I think hospitality is one.
Industries that just innately create immunity. Um, I mean, like that's, that's what it's meant to be, right? Like you're meant to come to a place and connect with someone and feel like you're part of that and you're checking something out. And, um, but to answer your question around, how do you, how do you, like, what, what drives you to do that is I know that in all of the fantastic hospitality experiences I've had.
It was never how a space looked. It was always how I was made to feel. And it was always about a individual or a [00:10:00] number of individuals who made me feel that way. And it doesn't take a lot, you know, it, but, but it takes a special. Type of person to be able to truly deliver hospitality and make you feel amazing.
And I'm sure you've been to a ton of beautiful restaurants and hotels where you had mediocre or like probably poor service and you'll never go back, but you've also been to some hotels and restaurants that are just okay from like a design perspective. You just had the most incredible service and you'll go there time and time and time again.
And so how do we match those two things together?
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And, and we're discussing that, but when you say it's. It's not that hard. I would push back. I think that what you do is really hardly, I could never do what you do. Um, you have a real unique skill and many of your colleagues and contemporaries do as well.
And I've heard you say it a couple of times, so this [00:11:00] idea of building community. So yeah, so we're talking about this one-on-one connection, but then there's this other idea of making everyone feel comfortable and it takes something special to build a community. So when you're looking at the projects that you're doing, or the initiatives that you are.
Going after or championing. How do you weave the idea of community into that?
Nina Grondin: I think so. I think a lot of that actually has to, um, go back to how we even describe hospitality or think about what it is that we deliver. I think so many of us talk about hospitality as a service-based industry and yes, we are serving a guest, but it's not really service that we're delivering.
It's. It's anticipating someone's needs. It's making them feel, uh, you know, as we said, seen and appreciated and it's making those human connections. And so if we take the idea away from maybe just serving someone, but really rather connecting [00:12:00] with someone and creating that sense of community and can not only connecting someone to another person, but we could also connect someone through a space.
Right. And so like in a lot of the projects that we do, we do deep, deep. Into the community into what makes a place special and we may, or what makes a brand special. And we, we infuse those values into the design of the space so that when you check in at the front desk and there's like a really interesting piece of artwork or a great installation or, um, a cool material that you've never seen, like it allows for.
Conversation, you know, like I am behind the front desk and tell you about this piece of artwork and how important it is to where we are standing right now, or how important it is to like the story of the brand or the story of the ownership group who wanted to really bring this great hotel to this neighborhood.
Um, but it's like that depth of, um, like specific and nuanced storytelling and just like making sure. We [00:13:00] understand that we're not just like serving someone and bringing them a coffee or bringing them, you know, their luggage, but we're really where we're connecting with them.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting how speaking about that artwork and the thought that goes into the artwork and how it tells a story and re and ties into the entire experience that you're trying to create in the built environment.
I find that those small moments that are actually. Quote, unquote easy. Although nothing is easy is when someone tells me about that story because there's a guest. Oftentimes I just don't know. I find that most of the time, this the narrative is very well thought out, but oftentimes. Communicated within the team working at the hotel so that I could, if I'm curious, they could let me know about it.
I find that that's a missed so often. Do you find that it's missed number one and number two, how do you coach or communicate with the teams delivering hospitality about how to do that? [00:14:00]
Nina Grondin: Um, I think you're right. It is missed off. 'cause, but I feel like when it's missed, it's missed because it is maybe topical or very surface based in terms of its storytelling.
Um, the other, this is an interesting question because I can give you an example of, um, Something where you have to, you have to get to the depth of what you're truly looking for in that storytelling. And that requires a lot of work and it actually requires you to shut up and do a ton of active listening, um, and observing and asking questions.
And. You know, as designers we're often, like from the second we walk into a project or a space, people want to know, okay, what's the solution? What do you envision? What are you? And we're like, whoa, whoa. Back up. We don't know enough yet. Right? Like we don't know enough about what makes this place special.
And so I can tell you about a project, um, that we were working on, uh, a few years [00:15:00] ago where, and, and yo, you understand this, but the ownership group is like, we need an Instagram of. We like, we absolutely need an Instagram moment. And so like, let's do a big neon sign or something. And we were like, okay, like I understand, you know, the desire to have it.
Instagram moment. It have something that someone is going to, um, Take pictures of and broadcast, but what is your Instagram moment that makes your hotel really interesting and unique as special? And so we went around and around and around, around, and they finally, you know, finally we got to a question of like, okay, well, what do you guys do that absolutely throws her.
And they were like, oh, well we have this like crate concierge service where like, literally, if you called down and you were like, Hey, I want to go play tennis for the afternoon. We would like, literally go out and get you rackets and the ball. And like, whatever you want to go, you know, you want like a cool, like radio in your room.
Like there they're like, you can literally ask us for almost anything and we would make it happen. And I'm like, [00:16:00] that's amazing. That moment of service is incredible. Do your guests know that you do that? And they're like, well, no, not really a few guests, but like. And then I'm like, that's your Instagram moment?
Why don't we take all of the requests that you guys have ever gotten in from like tennis rackets to radios, to like, I don't know, like, you know, 5:00 AM McDonald's runs to whatever we could create, like a big, cool art installation on the wall that shows all of these things. And when someone comes in and they see like all of these items, they're like, what's, what's this all about?
And that's your opportunity for your front desk agent to say, we offer this to our guests. That's
Dan Ryan: an amazing. Idea. And I'm curious from the time that they did that, did they see an uptick in those requests? Because of the,
Nina Grondin: unfortunately they didn't do it, really tried to push them to do it. They didn't do it, but like that's an example of saying, okay, we can achieve your goal of what you want to do, but let's tie it into.
How you deliver exceptional service and tie it into a [00:17:00] storyline that your team can buy into and they can talk about how badly, and that makes you guys really interesting. And like, we'll stick with a guest. Um, maybe I was like doing a real shitty job of selling the idea at the time, but like, I think what, well, what ended up happening, they didn't end up doing it because then there was, uh, a flood in the building and all sorts of things happened.
Um, but you know, it's about. You got to go deeper. If you want to do something, um, that has, that's able to stick with your team
Dan Ryan: and in that, the idea of going deeper and how do you, I guess I really am so fascinated by how you're always talking about community and building community. And so when you're thinking about the communities that you're building now, In the built environment on the project you're working on, but also another other initiatives within our industry.
Like how do you know when you've gone deep enough? [00:18:00]
Nina Grondin: Um, when the locals buy into it, when the local supported and, um, I can give you an example. So we worked on this boutique design or boutique hotel project in downtown El Paso. And at the time, this was gosh, six years ago, but this is still a project that's special to our hearts.
Um, downtown El Paso was very desolate though. You know, 10:00 AM on a Tuesday afternoon or Tuesday morning. You see two people on the street. Um, it was, uh, it was very much like a nine to five space. Like people would come in, they'd go to work and then they would. And, um, I'll pass also doesn't really have boutique hotels.
And so we were one of the first ones to come in and our ownership group, like they really believed in downtown, they believed in revitalizing and we were like, cool. So we worked with them, we developed this hotel and, um, what you see is. People started to [00:19:00] come there for happy hour and they start, it started to like extend the, um, the hours of downtown.
And then the next time we would come back, there'd be a coffee shop open kind of across the street and then a juice bar and then a record store and a little boutique. And all of these spaces started to kind of like bleed out as adjacencies. And then we would hear that like Beto O'Rourke, who is, you know, a famous El Paso, uh, politician, he would love to have his town.
In that hotel, because that was a place that he felt like home. And then we would go there and the woman who's literally like always mopping the floor in the front, uh, in the entry vestibule. I'm like Tammy, like you are just keeping this place immaculate. And she's like, I just want to keep it so beautiful and clean because I'm so proud of it.
And I'm proud of what I've done here. And I'm proud of my job. And I think this is incredible. And then, you know, three years later we come back. Downtown is completely different than when we first started. [00:20:00] And we're meeting with some of the, uh, members from the city council and they like, this is a quote, I will never forget.
They said, you know what? We didn't, we had never thought about El Paso as having a design aesthetic or like, uh, you know, like, uh, uh, just. Like a, a design that is defined as like this being El Paso. And he's like, this hotel has started to define that we now know what El Paso design looks like and that I will never forget.
Dan Ryan: Wow. So I love where you're saying when the locals buy into it, that's how you know, you've gone deep enough. So when you're working on projects, do you actively try and have initiatives to get them to buy into it or. And how do you know when you've done it or not?
Nina Grondin: Um, so a good, good question. You'd have to have a lot of conversations.
You got to spend a lot of time there. Um, I'll give you another example. So [00:21:00] we're working on a hotel project, a luxury hotel project in Detroit. Um, you know, what has happened in Detroit and the, the, you know, bankruptcy of the city, the revitalization, the. Influx of development that some of it is great. And some of it is displacing.
Um, those Detroiters who have been there for a long time. And when we started that project, we made sure that we met with a lot of Detroit and we, we, we talked to them, we said, Hey, this is what we're thinking of doing. We met with a lot of artisans. We met with a lot of people who could potentially contribute to the project and be pulled in and they were very.
Vocal and honest with us. And they said, you know what? This is bullshit. Like this is, this is not, uh, what our community is. This is not what the stretch of this corridor is supposed to be. This is who we are. And we, we listened and we, you know, we're able to take that input and weave it [00:22:00] into the overall project where the project stays its course it's still a luxury hotel.
Um, but it takes into consideration the feelings and the thoughts of the local community. And I think that's so important because a few, a few points like development sometimes has a bad rap, right? Like people think about development and they're like, oh, this is something that you're doing to a community and not with the community.
And what we want to do is work on projects that are developed with a community, with their support so that our owners are, um, You know, excited to go to those town halls instead of driving it, right? Like the owners are, they feel like they're in coalition with the locals who are there because development can be a really good thing.
What's not a good thing necessarily is discipline. But development has the ability to really lift a place and make the best of it even better. And, but that's hard work and that [00:23:00] takes a lot of effort. Um,
Dan Ryan: I stay at so many hotels all over the country and on the boutique side where you're, where they're supposed to be tied in.
The community you're supposed to feel like it's a part of it. It's I get really frustrated because oftentimes it's like a, a rocket ship lands with this hotel and all the people that work there, all the, everything from the art to the decor, the whole story, the narrative, everything that you're talking about, it's it just, it just feels out of place.
And it frustrates me. So to hear you talk about coalition and thinking about development in a different way, It's refreshing. And I'm curious how that ties into your real push with the, um, with HVAC. And if you could tell us about that and are these, how do these live together?
Nina Grondin: Oh, I mean completely those together.
Right? So H Dak being the hospitality diversity action council, [00:24:00] um, you know, we're really, it's a group. 14 people, uh, board members that have been brought together by Stacy, uh, Shoemaker Rowan from HD. And she, you know, she wanted to in the, kind of, in the aftermath of George Floyd and everything that happened in the summer of 2020, she really.
It made her kind of look at our industry and say, well, we maybe have a diversity problem within the hospitality space, especially at the upper management ownership developer levels. Right? Like as you move up in that space and I heard Beshara talking about this, um, on, on his podcast with you, is that it gets wider and wider and more and more.
And, but there are so, so like how do we change that? How do we start to bring more, uh, diversity people of color and minorities, women into this space? And that's what we're really trying to do with HVAC. And that goes hand in hand with development and developing within the community [00:25:00] that then supports that community rather than displaces that community.
Right? Like everybody talks about gentrification, everybody talks, but like. There are amazing communities across America and they are ripe for development, but they. Probably need to be approached in a slightly different way so that we're working with those who are there, allowing them to stay. They're not only allowing them to stay, they're helping to boost their businesses, right?
Like there's any neighborhood you go to. There's amazing food and beverage, uh, outlets. There's amazing stores. There's amazing people who have been there forever. How do we work with them instead of pushing them out?
Dan Ryan: Yeah. So I, I, I'm curious as far as like, okay, so all of you at HVAC meet and you talk about this and this idea of coalition getting the locals to buy in, um, the idea of gentrification or trying to [00:26:00] limit it or change it.
How do you guys talk about it as a.
Nina Grondin: Hmm. Well, I think the way that we talk about it as a group within HDAC is we first we acknowledge that it is. Uh, thing, right? It's an issue. Um, and then we, what we really try to do at HDAC is we tried to identify some initiatives that we want to move forward. But we also realize that this is a huge industry and there's only 14 of us.
And the 14 of us have day jobs. This is not our primary focus. And so what we're really trying to do is we're trying to create aware. We're trying to create more open dialogue. We're trying to pull others in to identify partners who are going to help us to identify people who are already making strides in our mission and propel them to be even better.
So whether that's through scholarships or that's through connections or support, or just giving them a [00:27:00] platform to have conversations and panel discussions that things like HD expo, um, inviting them to come exhibit, um, I mean, just. We are really trying to like, just fuel it and spread it out so that more people can kind of bear the torch of what it is that we're trying to do because our industry is huge.
And if we it's 14 people trying to like, just make a difference on our own, whenever again, it's never going to happen. Right. So like we need to kind of pass it along, um, and invite others to, to do the work.
Dan Ryan: Interesting. I, on a previous podcast, I interviewed one of my coaches from our teachers from the Hoffman Institute.
And we went through this whole pro it's like a whole long, that's a whole other story. But as far as recognizing patterns within ourselves, the. Is awareness. Like we have to become aware before we can affect any change, just not just in self, but in society at large. Um, where do you see with HVAC in particular?
Where are you spending most of your time creating [00:28:00] awareness right now?
Nina Grondin: Hmm. So at HD expo, we created a booth. Uh, we've got almost like hate to call it a booth. It was a. Uh, platform for conversations, but we, um, Carlos Herrera, who is our studio design leader, he led the effort in that and we designed it to look like a barbershop or a beauty salon because we, what we wanted to do is we wanted to create an environment that felt like the setting that people are familiar with, that they recognize where they are already used to having open and honest conversations with their committee.
And with their community from all walks of life. Right. And so we created this setting. We had a series of conversations over the two days, anything from. You know, talking to, uh, Damon Lawrence about finding space for blackness in hospitality, with what he's doing with homage hospitality. Uh, when you talked to Erin Anderson about how it is that you as a [00:29:00] minority or a person of color, raise capital and find the resources to be able to engage in a development project and you get into the ownership level, and that's a different process for somebody who may be black and brown, then you know, some of these, like.
More established, um, hotel owners and developers. Um, we talked about LGBTQ and how to make people feel welcome and comfortable within a hospitality space. And it's really about like, just having these open conversations. And over the two days, like we had some real conversations and it was raw and it was, um, it was very human and, you know, the people came up to us afterwards and they were like, thank you for having that discussion, you know, did we actually.
Do anything to change the industry yet? Maybe not, but like this is the first step is to getting other people to realize and just even become aware that, um, we have some real challenges that we need to overcome. I couldn't
Dan Ryan: find that [00:30:00] many of those conversations and topics that you brought up, it's all it's top of mind with so many people, but oftentimes.
They're scared to discuss it. They're scared to say the wrong thing. They're scared to make a mistake. And I feel like with independent lodging Congress in particular, the work you're doing with HVAC work, we're creating these environments where we can have these fumbling conversations and safe conversations to make mistakes, but be okay with it.
Because again, we're just trying to create more aware of. Yeah,
Nina Grondin: absolutely. And the thing is like, if we never have these conversations, how are you going to know what's actually right or not right or appropriate or not appropriate? I mean, there's a, there's a level of vulnerability that we have to be comfortable with.
And I think that's, what's really nice about our industry is that we are a very tight knit, right? Like we are already a community. We feel very comfortable with one another. And so this is a place where I feel like we can have those conversations and we can know that. I might screw up and say the [00:31:00] wrong thing, but I'm just a human and you guys, you know, you're my friends and colleagues and you understand that and you'll call me out on it.
And you'll say, Nina, you really like that? What you just said, that's not, that's not how this works. And I'm like, okay, you know what, my bad, thank you for bringing that to my attention. Um, but if we're not, if we're afraid to have the conversations, whenever we're going to get it, Right. Like we have to be open to screwing up.
And minded enough to do better.
Dan Ryan: Right? Okay. So being, I love screwing up because for me, mistakes are, it's really just unfinished learning. Failure is unfinished learning for me, mistakes are unfinished learning. So if you could say to all the people out there that are scared to have these conversations, because they might say the wrong thing, how can you offer them a Harbor of safety to start having these conversations?
Nina Grondin: I mean, you don't have to do it in a public setting, you know, [00:32:00] like I'll make myself available. I'm always open to have a conversation and I will be the first one to tell you that I don't always say the like politically correct thing or the thing that you know is going to be the soundbite for like, I am a human, you know, like there are times when I say things.
So like for instance, Marquise Stillwell, whom we both know and are friends with, he calls me out all the time. He's like Nina. What, what the hell like, you know, this is, this is not how you talk about this. And I'm like, thank you for telling me that. Um, and it's, it's actually led us to have a much closer friendship and a much closer connection because we're able to, um, be comfortable enough to correct one another, right.
And to say, Like, you know, we're, we're, we've got each other's backs. We're looking out for one another. It's almost like, you know, you go to lunch with a friend and like they have somebody stuck in their teeth. Like if you're a close friend, you're going to tell them. And if you're not a close friend, you're going to like, you know, not say anything, but, you know, it's [00:33:00] just, it's part of, um, It's it's part of like, just getting comfortable with the uncomfortable and you can do that with people that you are comfortable with.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And I would just, so speaking from my experience, even if you're not comfortable or you don't know, I would say go to one of these events where you guys are having the booth or go to independent lodging Congress, where there is one of these breakout sessions talking about this stuff. Because again, you don't have to be the one asking the question in front of everyone, but wait there for when it's over.
Go up to you, go up to everyone. I'll go up to the other 14 people and everyone else will be like, I have a question. And are you seeing that happen more and more? Would you invite people to do that?
Nina Grondin: Yes. Yes, absolutely. We are absolutely inviting people to do that. And people have been doing that. Um, and you know what, even one step further, sometimes people don't even feel comfortable coming up to you after the fact.
But what they will do is they'll send you maybe like the LinkedIn message. And they'll say, Hey, I really enjoyed the panel discussion. You really opened my eyes about this thing. I had no [00:34:00] idea when you said that the, I mean, there is an example from, uh, where we just were at HDX, but where we were having a panel discussion with, uh, marquees and with, uh, Damon Lawrence from homage and, um, One of them got a message afterwards from someone who said, you know what, when you said the words that we need to get to a point where, when somebody looks at my face, a black face, not mine, but you know, uh, mark uses, um, they can't see service.
They can't see servitude. They need to look at my face and see a human. He was like, when you said that, that was so meaningful to me. And he's like, I will not forget that. And I will keep thinking about that. That is. That's powerful, right? Like that's, you've reached someone in a way that I don't know how that he's going to take that or maybe act differently or, um, think differently moving forward, but like that's meaningful and
Dan Ryan: that's super impactful.[00:35:00]
Yeah. Um, so speaking of impact and bringing it back into the daydream. That we all have. Right. Um, we're also trying to impact people, communities, and other ways. But when you think about the spaces that you're trying to build, what experience impacted you the most to put you onto that path?
Nina Grondin: That's an interesting question because gosh, I've been digging into this a lot.
Um, When I was first getting into hospitality design, I'm going to take you back a little bit here, but as far as getting into hospitality design, I think I really, uh, valued and found intriguing about it. Was that growing up, my, my experiences of like, you know, I didn't grow up with money. Like we were an immigrant family, fairly poor.
Um, [00:36:00] but my mom always found a way for us to take like trips to Disney world, every single. And I didn't even realize this at the time, but I be like, we kind of always drove like a different car down there and then a different car back. And I didn't know why. And it turned out, she was like, literally getting paid to drive someone's car and like, Transported from Buffalo, New York, or sorry, Rochester, New York all the way down to Orlando and then getting paid to drive it back.
Cause that was like how we were paying for our vacations. I didn't know this. My mom did a great job of like, not letting me know that we were growing up poor. Um, and. But when we would stay in these hotels, even though they weren't like holiday Inns or like, you know, Hamptons or whatever, like, it was always so memorable to me, it was always like, I had just like these great experiences.
And so when I thought about it, I want it like designing hotels and restaurants. Like these are important moments in somebody's life and they're, um, they're meaningful and they have lasting impact and it's [00:37:00] something that I always wanted to contribute to. Um, but. Having now start the Curioso. And where about eight years in?
What I realize is that, um, yes, those human moments and memories and experiences, those are great, but the ability for these projects to really. Create jobs and livelihoods and have like a reach beyond the, you know, the, how something looks and feels and, you know, like to how it allows you to have a place to like, have a drink with your neighbor and connect and how it allows for someone who's maybe new in town and just like coming for a few days to like, understand the place that they're in.
And then really, um, also just having the ability to. Like I look across our team and I'm like, gosh, we've got 24 designers who absolutely love what they're doing. And like, we've created this little community [00:38:00] within just Curioso ourselves of people who are passionate about their work. And they're creating these wonderful spaces that other people get to enjoy.
Like what's the, what gets better than that? You know? So it's, I it's, it's kind of like snowballed into like more and more just like humans and connections and community building and, and livelihoods. You know, growing families and just, that's why I love this industry so much. Cause it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and we just like connect more and more and more.
Dan Ryan: And oftentimes. The the most inconsequential impact, like you didn't even think about it could have a profound effect on someone else, like the little you driving to and from Disney world in a different car. And I don't know how your mom did that before Craigslist.
Nina Grondin: My mom is like, She is the, the most like capable, cool person.
And you'll never know it just like [00:39:00] talking to her, like, yeah, because she's like very humble and very like, oh, I'm just, you know, whatever. But she's like, uh, she, I mean, she's incredible. And she just like, she was a doer and she just like made things happen. Um, but at the same time, she raised me as kind of like a, um, A single mom for a number of years.
And I was a latchkey kid since I was five. And because I was a latchkey kid, she made sure that we kind of always lived within communities or within areas where there was a sense of community because she knew she couldn't be there. And so like, I was literally raised by like my neighbors or like, you know, by, I like played in a courtyard with all my friends and I would come home from school by myself and I, she would like literally rush home at like 7:00 PM.
Make me do. Get me into bed and then like go back to the lab. Uh, she was getting her PhD at the time. She wouldn't come back until like two or three in the morning. You know, she was like never around, but she like took care of me enough or put me into the situations where I was literally like surrounded and raised by community.
And I didn't [00:40:00] realize this until just recently, but maybe that's why I care so much about this idea of building community and building villages is because. Without that item, not sure how I would have survived as a child. Um,
Dan Ryan: Thank you for sharing that. And I, out of that little story, I have two questions.
What did she get a PhD
Nina Grondin: in? Um, she, she's a gosh, I bio. So she's a, she's a doctor. Um, she's an internal medicine doctor. Um, so she has her MD and her PhD and she. Also has a fellowship in like Eastern medicine. So she does like acupuncture. Um, she's like, she's really the coolest person and definitely the smartest person in our family and she doesn't get enough credit for it.
Dan Ryan: Okay. And when she would come home after working and hang up, her she'd come in, hang up her lab, coat and rush to make you dinner. What was your favorite dinner that you.
Nina Grondin: Oh, my gosh. I don't even remember. I mean, which I needed some shows some slight sign of like great rice dish or something. [00:41:00] Um, but like, you know, we just like kind of, we worked with each other and like got through those years when she was incredibly busy and I was, you know, just trying to figure out how to be a kid.
Um, and we were living in a new country and. No. I was learning English and literally learning it from like He-Man and gem and the misfits and the gummy bears and like the little mermaid,
Dan Ryan: my God, those are all my favorite shows. I had those
Nina Grondin: so great. Like where the hell did those go?
Dan Ryan: We are the misfits.
We're gonna get. Oh, my gosh. Wasn't that from Jim? I wish I watched that with my
Nina Grondin: sister.
Dan Ryan: I haven't thought about that forever. Um, okay. So that's from the past out, as we think about where we are right now, what's keeping you up at night right now.
Nina Grondin: What's keeping me up at night. Um, [00:42:00] no, that's a great question.
I think what's keeping me up at night is. I mean, we're in a very interesting spot right now. Right? Like we had nothing going on for like 15 months and then suddenly everything was happening and part of what keeps me and I, and I'm so, um, Excited about all of the projects that we have in the studio and all the work where they're doing, but I'm, I'm worried, I'm worried about the market.
I'm worried about COVID, I'm worried about, you know, these variants and what that means for travel and for people getting back into the market. Um, and I, and I'm also worried about the financial system, right? Like there's a lot of projects starting, but like how many of those are truly financed and how many of those are like truly gonna move forward?
And, um, I think so far so good, but I'm like very, I'm very, um, cautious about, you know, what happens six months from [00:43:00] now or a year from now? Um, I think it's very exciting. Like this is a, this is an interesting moment for hospitality. And when
Dan Ryan: did you start Curioso?
Nina Grondin: We started Curioso about eight years ago,
Dan Ryan: eight years ago.
And that's amazing. So if you think about other people who are in your space, other entrepreneurs given what, what we've all been through and kind of where you are now, what kind of advice would you give to other entrepreneurs who are facing a similar chance?
Nina Grondin: Facing a COVID challenge or facing
Dan Ryan: there's so much uncertainty,
Nina Grondin: so much uncertainty.
So, um, you know, the thing I always think about is I'm so glad I went into this, not knowing like with the kind of blinders on and with like being a little bit naive of what it was going to take. Um, you know, like Dan Pierce, my partner, uh, when we started curious, I was like, can you please just want him to work on great projects?
Right? Like we wanted to work on great projects. We wanted to be super connected with our clients. We wanted to. [00:44:00] Dive in do the work. Um, and we weren't necessarily thinking as much about the challenges of growth or managing a team or the economy, or, you know, like any of those things we just like wanted to do great design projects.
And, um, I loved having those blinders on. Because looking back, it has been so hard. And if I knew then maybe I would have been too scared to take that leap. Um, so it's almost like focus on what you drives you as a passion, right? Like focus on what you care about. And then yeah. There's going to be challenges along the way, but like, If you're resilient, you're going to deal with those challenges, right?
Like you're just going to, they're going to come. They may knock you back on your feet a little bit, like, but you're gonna figure it out, but don't lose what keeps you passionate about what you do. And, and if that evolves, that's fine. Like that's completely evolved for me. You know, I used to be like, my number one focus [00:45:00] was to design work and like the passion around like the design of like what a space, you know, creating really amazing, cool spaces.
But now I realize that those spaces have the ability to build community and like that sound my focus. And then I realized that what we are doing is, uh, has the ability to like create jobs and livelihoods for our team. And then for our clients teams. You know, allows them to do what they're passionate about and allows them to connect to people.
And now that's, you know, that's now the area of focus. And so, um, you know, don't lose sight of what keeps you like getting up early in the morning and diving in and you know, like just doing what it is that you want to do.
Dan Ryan: Wonderful. And then thinking to the future, what's exciting. You most about the future?
Hmm.
Nina Grondin: What is exciting me most about the future? Um, just like [00:46:00] seeing where hospitality is going to go. I actually think that there is a, this is a pivotal moment, right? Like we're going to see, as people have to make very, um, conscious decisions about how they travel, where they travel, what they experience there.
We're going to learn a lot about what people's true. Instincts or desires are. And then how does the hospitality industry pivot and respond to those desires? And I think, I think it's going to be more meaningful. It's going to be more purpose-based it's going to be more experiential and maybe like boutique or lifestyle.
Um, because travel is really valuable right now, right? Like we're not going to just go on some Willy nilly trends. And put our family at risk and put our health at risk. Um, it's gotta be something that really draws us. And so I think there's a lot to learn about this. And then how do we as an industry to respond to that and create those [00:47:00] experiences that people are really looking for?
Dan Ryan: I think the most impactful travel experiences I've ever had are. When it is in a community, any community, when I'm not just in my little bubble, in my room, just going from meeting to meeting or whatever, usually it's with my family and we are, have the ability to be around the kitchen table with others.
Nina Grondin: Yeah, absolutely. And like, you know, you'll probably the same, actually. I know you're the same way. Like you go to a new city or not even a new city, but you go and travel and maybe your like number one choice is to stay with a friend rather than staying in a hotel, even though like, this is our industry and our business.
But like, you know that like you're busy, they're busy. And if you just meet for like a lunch or coffee, like it's fine. But if you can have those like 30 minutes in the morning, over coffee and breakfast, and then like the 45 minutes at night before you guys go to bed and just like, you know, be in their space and meet and be hanging out with their kids, like [00:48:00] that's where the magic happens and that's where you keep your friendship.
And so, um, yeah, absolutely.
Dan Ryan: It's funny you say that because that's where I am right now. I've been San Diego and I'm staying with friends and with my family and our families, and it's just, I'd miss it. If I miss it so much.
Nina Grondin: Yeah. Yeah. Whenever I travel, I'm always trying to stay with friends and I'm like, Hey guys, I'm coming to town.
Like, you know, do you have that extra bedroom or whatever? And it's like, I'm just not that I don't want to stay in a hotel. Of course I was staying in a hotel, but like, I want to be with you. I want to be with my people. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Um, when you use the word latch key kid from the time you were five and being in a community, and that may have helped you been a foundational origin story for you as far as.
You're developing your drive to develop community, but how, how from five, when you were a latchkey kid until when, like how old were you when you stopped considering yourself a latchkey kid?
Nina Grondin: Oh, gosh.
Dan Ryan: Or are you still, [00:49:00]
Nina Grondin: I don't know if I'm still a latchkey kid, but I was definitely very independent because of the fact that I did grow up that way.
I'm probably into. I would say into college yeah. Into college. Because even though at, at some point I had like grandparents and parents and all sorts of people living with me and taking care of me. Um, it's still, I w I've been, I've been very, very independent and just kind of like, if, if there's a label on me, it's like, you know, I can take care of it or I can do it on my own.
Um,
Dan Ryan: Okay. So if you, the Nina of today that I'm talking to right now, it came upon your 20 year old self. What advice would you give yourself?
Nina Grondin: Dan? That's a, that's a deep question. What advice would I give to myself? I at that point, I would say so I was [00:50:00] very, um, I was very ambitious. Have always been, um, growing up in a Chinese family.
I was like good grades or like a given, right? Like, I'm just gonna destroy any tests done. You know, academic situation. Um, but what I think I would have maybe told myself is like, put your ambition aside a little bit and open yourself up to the people who are around you and connect with them and grow that community.
And like, You know, be with the people or like listen to their stories, because I think I was so focused on like what I wanted and where I was trying to go. Um, that it was really until after college that I like, you know, opened my eyes to the people who were around me. Um, and I found that like, even in, in all through high school and then in college, I like, I spent time with those people who maybe had those same like ambitions, right.
All [00:51:00] my friends were my friends from business school. Like they all wanted to go work for an investment bank and like make a shitload of money. And, you know, like those were the people I surround myself. And then what's interesting is that college ended and I actually took a job, an entrepreneurial job, um, in, in chapel hill, North Carolina, which is where I went to school with my old entrepreneurship professor and all my friends.
Like they went to Charlotte, they went to New York, they went to Atlanta, they went to, um, Boston could take these like investment banking. And I was the one who decided not to do that. And then I found myself like very alone and like, where was I making friends? I was literally like meeting people and making friends at the dog park.
And that's when I started to like open my eyes up to maybe other paths or other people. And like, you know, being friends with someone who was like, literally renovating a house or being friends with someone, my friend Simon, like the reason I got into design. And he would like, literally we would hang out like [00:52:00] late into the night and he would be doing these like 3d models of like, he got some like, um, a, he was freelance work for Tiffany's and he was like doing 3d renderings of the interiors of their stores.
And that was like, this is amazing. Like, this is so cool. And he was showing me all this stuff and I was like, I was just mesmerized by it. And then that made me like, want to pursue a career in design.
Dan Ryan: And maybe gave you the itch to build
Nina Grondin: communities. Yeah. Yeah, because I was connecting with these people that I never would have even spoken to before.
And so yeah. Advice to myself, like Nina stop being so stuck in like your own head and your own goals and your own way, and just like observe and see the people around you.
Dan Ryan: Thank you for sharing that. Um, well I've enjoyed all of this and I think we've covered some really great ground. And if people wanted to get in touch with you, [00:53:00] how do they do
Nina Grondin: it?
Okay. Uh, what they can email me, uh, Nina and Curioso that us, or they can follow on Instagram. I'm personally. I'm. Like I, the letter I, and then missed and my SSED, or we are Curioso, um, you can come to our website. I mean, like, yeah, I'm always open to a conversation, LinkedIn, any of it.
Dan Ryan: Great. And we'll also put those in the show notes.
So if you're driving, don't get in an accident. You can just look it up later. Uh, well, Nina, I just want to say thank you so much for your time. I, I, I'm so appreciative
Nina Grondin: and great. And I am always appreciative of any time we get to spend together. It's really wonderful.
Dan Ryan: Thank you, Nina. And thank you to our listeners.
Also, most importantly, um, I hope this talk has evolved your view on how to deliver hospitality and what it all means and how to care for others and open your mind to others and make sure that their journeys are cared for. So if you learn something today, please share the [00:54:00] podcast with a friend and thank you everyone.
We will see you next time.
