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Pathways To Spirit is hosted by Dr. Troy Melendez and Dr. Nate Velez of Journey to Recovery, offering an inside look at the people, practices, and purpose behind a culturally grounded approach to healing from addiction. Through conversations with the Journey to Recovery team, the podcast explores the program’s history, its new facility, and the clinical and cultural principles that guide their work. Pathways To Spirit provides a welcoming space to learn how Community, culture, and connection support the recovery journey, and how this program is shaping a path toward wellness and a deeper sense of spirit.
Welcome to Pathways to Spirit. Our journey today seeks to honor the sacred land, revered teachings, and ancestral wisdom that guide us through the path of mental health wellness and holistic recovery. Together we'll explore the stories of strength, healing and hope, embracing the clinical techniques and cultural foundations that remind us we are never alone on this sacred journey toward wellness and a strong personal connection to spirit. Welcome back Pathways to Spirit. I'm your host, Doctor.
Troy:Troy Melendez, and with me is my cohost.
Nate:This is Doctor. Velez. Nice to have you back and listening to our next topic here. Good to see you, Doctor. Melendez.
Troy:You as well. Yeah. So I think we're going to tackle early recovery strategies today.
Nate:Yeah, that sounds good.
Troy:Yeah, folks coming in and just what are those things that are going to help you not only to stay in recovery, but kind of create that path of your It's a very individual process that folks go through. We got some general tips as to how to steer you, but each person is going to find kind of their strengths and their areas for improvement within that process. So I wanna talk a little bit about how folks get into recovery and then what they do, as they progress through the continuum.
Nate:Yeah, and it's such a vulnerable period of time, right? And so I'm glad we're talking about this and and the hope is that, you know, this can this can resonate with some people, some listeners or some family or somebody in the community that can make a connection to this and and really it speaks to you. Or if you're in early recovery yourself. Right? And so Right.
Nate:A very vulnerable period of time, And so I'm glad we're talking about this because this is where it starts. Right? Mean, we talk about walking up that ramp and Mhmm.
Nate:and setting the foundation. So I'm glad we're we're we're, chopping it up about this today.
Troy:Definitely. Yes. So I think it all starts with, you know, what what's their why? You know, I think we we talk about that a lot in the work that we do. What's our why?
Troy:And then, you know, in terms of why we're engaging in this. But that's going to vary for a lot of people. A lot of times it's something that's imposed upon them. It's a court ordered thing. A lot of times it's family.
Troy:In a lot of cases we see that folks have just become tired of of that game over and over again and, you know, kinda getting a little bit of progress and then falling again and going back in a spiral shame and guilt and things. And so Really helping folks to identify like why. Why are they doing this now? Why is this time going to be successful for them? Being able to discover that and being able to identify it's it helps folks with a sense of direction and and certainly commitment throughout their recovery.
Troy:And I think that's something that's gonna evolve for people as well. You can start, you know, being forced into this and through that process find that it's something that you really desire and be able to kind of generate that that motivation on your own.
Nate:Yeah. And I'm glad you said that because everybody's why is different. And one of the things that, like, really jumped in my mind was, you know, we use, often assessing stages of change. Mhmm. And as a as a measure for understanding people where they're at and why they're coming to us.
Nate:Right? And so as as helpers, as we start to think about, well, we listen to their why and some like you said, some of those things are are I'm here because they sent me here. I'm here because my family wants me here, my spouse wants me here, or the court wants me here, or CPS wants me here. And so, oh, I wanna be here. I brought myself here.
Troy:Right.
Nate:Right? And as we're assessing that level of, okay, well, what's that level of your why? And then it helps us from a treatment standpoint also think about our strategy of engagement in terms of, well, how do we respond and move people along that continuum? Right?
Nate:So that's one of the things that jumps off in my head. But, you know, the why is a really big thing to talk about because also, like you said, I think that, you know, a lot of folks at times don't know their why, and their why often is, I am tired. Right. I am tired. How many folks do we see that just kind of resign and surrender to fatigue mentally, emotionally, physically, right, have nowhere to turn?
Troy:Right. Many. Many. Yeah. And I I think that's a a great place to start if we can get folks to that place of how's that lifestyle working out?
Troy:And it's not, you know, and it is, it's exhausting and it's you've got so many plates spinning and you gotta, you know, excuses and lies and, you know, kinda trying to play the whole system. And when you can get to a place of, hey, I'm I'm just done and it's a perfect opportunity for surrender.
Nate:Oh, surrender is and and, you know, you think about the strength in that, right? There's so much strength in identifying, I'm weak, I'm tired, I can't do this, I can't run no more, I have I burn bridges, my family is upset, and nobody trusts me. Right. You know? That's a very vulnerable place to be.
Troy:Mhmm.
Nate:But it's also kinda beautifully a strong place to be. Right? Like, I surrender.
Troy:Yeah. Yeah. Incredibly strong. And and and that's why I think a lot of people, you know, they come to learn that through the experience. That at first, they you know, we look at surrender as as kind of a weak thing.
Troy:I've given up. But it's really in in this process, surrender is the beginning. It's the start of something new and it takes a lot of strength to be able to get there and say, I can't do this on my own. I'm gonna open myself up to assistance with this.
Nate:Yeah. And you know, it's I I reflect upon upon my own recovery, and I reflect on this a lot. Mhmm. You know, staying inside my purpose. Right.
Nate:Staying focused inside my why and and what that represents for me as a dad. As a husband, as a son, as an uncle, as a community adviser. You know, just there's a spiritual connotation to that for me, that it's not easy to maintain over years and years and years and years. Right? And so the inception of the start is, although it's really hard to do, once people can get to that place and just show up Right.
Nate:Physically show up Mhmm. We can also help them navigate Mhmm. Their thinking and come to some understanding of what is it? What is my why? Right?
Troy:Yeah.
Nate:Pretty rewarding to do that?
Troy:Yeah. Similarly, I think my surrender didn't come until later in the process and certainly not, you know, in a rehab facility. I was almost on my way out when I realized, Oh man, I really need to be here. I should have been paying more attention. Now, thankfully, I had a, you know, PHP and IOP and sober living and I still had more of the process left.
Troy:But, I think that's the beauty of our continuum is that we get folks through that resistance period and while they're still with us, you know, in the sober living residents, they have the opportunity to then let go and surrender. And they're still in that safe environment and they're still with people that are willing to help them and And building those relationships.
Nate:like mindedness and you're in a spot where when you do that and you see other people around you, it's okay to be vulnerable. Oh, they shared too? Oh, they surrendered to this process too? Or they're actually taking this seriously too?
Troy:Right.
Nate:It becomes so strong for the milieu and the group when they do this together. So for those people out there listening that are, you know, in a place or have a loved one in a place where, you want to surrender to this process. It's also really cool because in our continuum of care, you're not alone when you do that. And there's more support than you think.
Troy:Right. Yeah. And as you get more and more into it, you start to discover that. Yeah. You have limited perspective on what this all is until you're in the middle of it.
Troy:Yeah. And then you realize, like, how wonderful it is, how much is there for you.
Nate:Yeah. Just a quick, story as we continue to talk through some of Early Recovery stuff, but I had a message from one of my staff yesterday or day before that one of the patients wanted to talk to me. Mhmm. And I had been talking to this patient since he was in detox, you know, because of I just kinda like doing my rounds and stuff like that every day. And I didn't know what he wanted, nor did I know he was actually pointing out.
Nate:And so when I went to see this patient, I said, hey. You you wanted to talk to me? And he's like, yeah. I have a letter for you. Wow.
Nate:And that letter just kinda detailed his experience about our program, our leaders, our supervisors, our staff, thanking us, thanking me, thanking the community. And it was just it was cool. Then later on in the day, I was walking down the hall and we saw a therapist looking out the window, and I said, what are you doing? And she goes, I'm watching a moment. And I go, well, I wanna be in that moment.
Nate:What is the moment? And I walked over there, and it was the same person getting in the car with their family, advancing to the next level, and just to kinda see that person transitioning. It was so cool. So seeing him from early recovery, surrendering, going through the process in the next step, it was fulfilling. And I and I just share that because, you know, it it it can reduce someone's fear of asking for help Sure.
Nate:Or coming, you know, coming forth to just say, I'm weak. Mhmm. And to to see somebody bloom, from that was is is this is awesome.
Troy:So we we kinda, you know, started into this and we've we've hit a couple of the the topics along the way of, you know, strategies for that. You you you mentioned that vulnerability and embracing that. Yeah. And seeing it as a strength instead of as a weakness. And I and I think that we can help to bring that out in folks by the safe environment that we've created.
Troy:And that starts in recovery management. They're broken. They're hurt. They're they're they're not sure that they wanna be there, but there's love there and there's support.
Nate:Yeah. It's it's really I spoke to this actually a couple of times this past week. I was privileged enough to to speak to some folks nationally about kinda what we do. And then we were at self governance, and we talked about that. And then we had governor Hobbs come two days ago, and we talked with her.
Nate:You were there.
Troy:Yeah. Yeah.
Nate:Yeah. And we talked to her about our philosophy of just helping people stick to us and loving us and loving them. And, it's what it really takes. And, that vulnerable piece is is such a key piece of of environment because it's our job our job as providers and our milieu
Troy:Mhmm.
Nate:To create an environment that people can naturally grow and feel hope and feel safe. And when we can create an environment where people do that and feel that, more than likely, they're gonna be more vulnerable
Troy:Right.
Nate:To lean into that. Definitely. Yeah. And we said that to the governor this week. Yes.
Nate:It's a requirement to work here. Right? You have to be sticky. Yes. You have to be sticky and love people up, or else it's it's gonna be tough for you to work here because it's a requirement.
Troy:Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then you lead us right into, you know, the environment where our staff we lead with empathy. We recognize that everybody's journey is gonna be a little different, and some folks, they they come to us two, three, maybe four or more times.
Troy:Mhmm. And they come with a brand new fresh start every time. You know, there's so many people that I've seen as I, you know, go through, like you say, you do the morning rounds and you stop by Recovery Management and see the new folks that are there and see the folks that are getting ready to transfer over. And, you know, a lot of times when we see those folks that come back to us, they they're worried about the reaction. That's right.
Troy:Don't want to disappoint us. Yeah. What they get from all of the staff is exactly the opposite. Yep. We'd love to see them.
Troy:Yes. We're glad that they made their way back, and let's let's see what we missed. Let's see what we can
Nate:What happened me this week, doc? Like, are two patients that I ran into again on the unit, and and my first reaction was, Hey, I'm so glad you're here. And just reducing that stigma of shame and fear and just acceptance and love, and it's just a good thing. But when you talk about the environment of empathy, that's one of the key elements. I think about stuff that we learned over time in school about and research supports this, right, where we talk about the relationship.
Nate:And let's talk about Carl Rogers for just a second. Sure. Right? He's he's the master
Troy:Mhmm.
Nate:At stickiness. He talks about genuine empathy, and we don't need much for people, to grow. Right. If we set the soil and the condition right, people can naturally grow from he says from an acorn to an oak tree.
Troy:Right.
Nate:Right? If we cultivate cultivate the right soil. Mhmm. And I think that that genuineness and empathy and unconditional positive regard where we can demonstrate that and we can teach that and then we can replicate that among not only a staff but a community. And I see that in this community.
Troy:Oh, definitely. Right? I
Nate:see that taking. Mhmm. And so empathy is is really that validation of what that person's experiencing and feeling as real. And when we as staff or you as family, if you're listening
Troy:Mhmm.
Nate:Can present themselves as, I understand you, your experience is real, and we're here to set the tone to support that. I think that that actually is such a great condition for change.
Troy:Definitely. Yeah. Listening listening to where they're coming from, empathizing with that. And then partnering, you know, finding that, okay, how do we do this together? What can I support you in and and and how can you show us that you want this more and you're going to continue through this?
Troy:And so that, yeah, that empathy is such a critical piece of this puzzle. And I think a lot of folks, if they're not getting that, they go back out. You know, they disconnect. We get a lot of people in from other agencies, other attempts at this, and they just weren't able to build that connection. And I think that, you know, our approach here, you mentioned the community and the community members that work for us, and you know, from our our counselors to our BHTs to our peers to even our our support staff, our administrative staff, you know, is empathetic to the situation that they're in.
Troy:They know. And they and they they may recognize them and, you know, it's the entirety of the staff that approaches each of our patients, you know, with that empathy, with that love, with that compassion.
Nate:Yeah. It's really cool. The other day we sat down with Councilman Butler, he came through as always. Amazing. He's actually I don't know.
Nate:He's speaking our language now. It's pretty cool. He was talking about stickiness the other day in a meeting, and I'm like, What? That's awesome, Councilman Butler. And but he mentioned, you know, as I walk the halls and I walk through the unit during these tours, I see members of my family and Right.
Nate:And or friends and people I grew up with, and that is so cool Mhmm. To have someone of his influence be able to connect and demonstrate empathy and love just in the moment at the highest level of leadership of our government. Right? Like, that's true empathy, and that's amazing work that actually just perpetuates throughout his leadership and throughout our leadership.
Troy:Yeah, he's been a great partner. So once we get folks in a safe place, they're starting to surrender, they're feeling that connection, they're starting to build some connections and being able to embrace that vulnerability, I think for me and what I've tried to impart to folks, when I was a counselor in PHP is a regular schedule. We gotta get off that chaos that we were riding for so long and establish a really healthy routine. I like to and I've presented this to folks for years now. There's three natural cycles that we want to follow when we're developing that structure for ourselves.
Troy:It's the sun. What are we doing every day? We get up to greet the day. We've got gratitude. We've got a plan.
Troy:You know, we've got intent as we go through. What are we renewing our commitment every single day to? And then we look at the lunar cycles. We got two weeks at a clip for two weeks from the full moon to the new moon. You're getting rid of stuff As that moon gets smaller, so does your environment.
Troy:What's no longer serving me? What's cluttering up my environment? Know, what are some relationships that I need to move away from temporarily or for good? And then we've got the two weeks from a new moon to a full moon when we're trying new things and we're building and we're growing and we're, you know, checking out a new meeting or we're talking to a potential new sponsor. We're getting some new numbers of some peers that might be supportive.
Troy:And then we look at the seasons and there's an energy to the seasons. Know, when we 're in December and we're in the winter, you know, things are moving slower. You know, our folks that are prone to depression might be feeling that a little bit more. And we know that that's going to alleviate as we get to the spring season, you know, and there's life and everything's kind of bursting forth. And so we look at those seasons and, you know, in those three months that we have in each of those kind of groups of time.
Troy:And it helps folks with goal setting and planning. They can see, Okay, what I'm doing right here day to day is going to affect what I do for the next two weeks, and it's going to affect what I do for the next three months. I think that I find it beneficial for us to connect ourselves to those natural cycles. I think what we were doing before was really kind of screwing up our natural cycles. We didn't sleep regularly.
Troy:We didn't eat regularly. You know? We were screwing up our circadian rhythms. And we come in a place where we're kind of frazzled from being separate from nature. And I think building that connection back through adherence to these natural cycles is really
Nate:really helpful. I've never heard you speak of this, and so now I want you to be my therapist kind of man. Like, man, wish this guy was my therapist. It's awesome to hear you speak to this, and just watching you light up about that, I can only imagine how our patients feel when you teach that or have taught that. Yes.
Nate:Right? And when I think about what you say and I think about structure and schedules, I think about some of the basic fundamental aspects of what we've neglected early on in our use that actually helps us move forward with purpose and intent. To your point, daily. Daily purpose, daily intentionality, daily effort to recognize what is my day accounted for, and how do I move through that, and fill it with meaningful activities. And those basic fundamentals
Troy:Mhmm.
Nate:Are often just placed on a shelf. Yes. And so once we can get folks thinking about structure Mhmm. Blocking times Mhmm. Committing to that routine, although could be mundane for them early on because it's big.
Nate:Could be overwhelming and or boring. Right. Right? There's idle time. I think about this concept of the little angel and the little devil sitting on your shoulders, right?
Nate:And the little angels going, Yay, block that time. Or, Yeah, let's go to church. Or, Yeah, let's go have prayer. Yeah, let's go to a meeting. Or, Let's go have breakfast with a friend.
Nate:And then that little temptation on the other shoulder is going, You don't need dad sleeping, or You don't need to go to
Troy:treatment today,
Nate:or You don't need to go to your UA, or Oh, yeah, you could stay up late. Right? Just balance. Right. And that brain is is really competing for structure.
Nate:Mhmm. And consistency builds that. And so I love that you're talking about this because it is a fundamental Mhmm. Aspect of early recovery. For sure.
Nate:Sure. And I love the seasons and the
Troy:Uh-huh.
Nate:Like all of that, and I gotta talk to you more about that. That's cool.
Troy:Emotional regulation. These folks are coming and it's chaotic. And we, you know, have reacted and overreacted, and we're reacting to our past trauma, and we're reacting to the environment with these ways that are not so functional for us, but they've become ingrained in in maybe even who we are and how other people see us. And while, you know, the early recovery really not the time to open up that box of trauma, but it starts with being able to recognize your emotions and being able to develop strategies that help you to regulate those. Breath work has been a mainstay, for myself for the past six years and, it's something that we've incorporated into, the PHP curriculum.
Troy:I was just talking with Kim Enes, one of our counselors in PHP, and she was so excited. She's like, We're still using your stuff. And I've written a bunch of different handouts and things like that. She's like, We do breathe, we do breath work every single day. Fantastic.
Troy:You know, we start them with that. And even if they're just doing it with us, they're having that experience. But a lot of the folks that I've worked with over the years that have been here have come back and said, I'm still doing it. I'm still doing the breath work. I found another type of breath work.
Troy:You know, have you ever heard of this? And it's just exciting to see that they're looking for more opportunities to calm down the system and to be able to sit with those emotions and get past the dialogue, the didactic memory of the pictures and the things and the people and just sit with the somatic aspect. What does that feel like? And not reacting to that feeling and being able to just allow that feeling to rise up and to move through you.
Nate:Yeah.
Troy:And really engage that in a natural healthy way.
Nate:Yeah, and in early recovery that's the toughest because you think about when people think about early recovery and they hear the word withdrawal, they only think about physical symptoms of withdrawal, right? But you're also you're unbalanced with feelings and emotion and cognition, our thoughts, and all that leads to how we behave. And so, you know, it's a cycle. And so when we can start you just talked about some key concepts of how we can regulate understanding where you're at, what you're feeling, what you're actually feeling in your body. And then really start comparing that to when I felt this way before, what did I do?
Nate:Right. And what was my impulsive reaction to regulate this?
Troy:Right.
Nate:Right? And so you end up with a bunch of maladaptive ways to manage our emotions, albeit when we're happy, we use. When we're sad, we use. When we're excited, we use. When we're depressed, we use.
Nate:Now you're really redefining what these emotions mean in your life when you sit still with them.
Troy:Right.
Nate:Right? And you could actually process.
Troy:Mhmm.
Nate:Let's look at gestalt therapy. Bringing things forward, staying in contact with them, and actually processing and working through those things. And so you don't want to do that too soon but you start to recognize in early recovery, yeah, these are real, raw things. And why we stress a lot of times too how we use psychiatric care and addiction medicine to also help cope with managing those regulatory emotions, those feelings, those inhibitions, that impulsivity, and a little bit of talk therapy and support through that. Right.
Nate:Right? Yeah, yeah. That's really cool to, I don't know, say that out loud. Uh-huh. Right?
Nate:But it's it's something that we really focus on. Right? Definitely.
Troy:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's essential. I mean, it's folks are coming into this environment with history that's very different from the next person that's coming in. But it's fundamentally the same because it's chaos and we're trying to bring some order to that chaos.
Troy:And then understanding that not all emotions are gonna require the same response and I can start to develop new responses. And I know to do this when I'm happy and I know to do this when I'm sad and I know to do this when I'm feeling disconnected rather than having that kind of one thing that is like, no, let's just shut those feelings down. And allowing people the opportunity to feel their feelings and and utilize them as motivation and utilize them as a means of connection. And so yeah, it's very essential piece of what we do. And I like that you mentioned the mat in there as well because you know, for a lot of folks being able to have that assistance and being able to you know kind of quiet down the chaos through the use of these medications allows people to focus and stay engaged, know, that's a part of the stickiness as well is that hey I know I got all this crazy stuff going on inside of me but I take my meds every day and it allows me to show up and it allows me to be present and allows me not to react.
Nate:We talked about that in our meeting yesterday, our continuum meeting, our why meeting. Right?
Troy:Yep.
Nate:And it allows it allows you as a person to be present. And when you're present and you stop all that rapid firing going on inside you, inside your mind, you can be present and you can benefit from the breath work.
Troy:You can
Nate:benefit from the talking. You can benefit from the early recovery skill building that we do with you, and it makes sense to you because you can slow things down and make some meaning out of getting out of this stage.
Troy:Right. You know? As we move through this, we're developing the ability to take on the next goal because these get progressively a little bit more difficult, progressively a little bit more involved. And, I think the next step for me is always harnessing that power of the community around you, whether that's within, you know, the sober living environment or the PHP environment or, you know, moving on to the next steps beyond PHP. What is your community and what have you developed as far as those people that are around you for assets and for support?
Troy:But it's really looking at, you know, through meetings and through church and through reconnecting with family, you know, being able to identify your community, you know, beyond just the general community that we have here that we're seeing, you know, and we've mentioned this in the past few meetings, is that the community is really embracing the idea of recovery and really looking at addiction in a very different way than we have historically. I think that support and just the spirit of that in the community is what helps us to continue to do the work that we're doing, encouraging people to come in and seek that help and be vulnerable and surrender to this process. Really looking at connecting our patients with community support, whether that's through the 12 Step meetings or some other variation of those meetings, church as I mentioned, going back to school, anything you know, of that nature that helping them to stay connected and develop those, you know, connection to resources in the community.
Nate:Yeah. And and and then I guess I'll I'll begin to close by saying that as you start to develop your new community, that community that you develop early on usually is is needed to maintain this purpose and this purposeful commitment and your why. Right? Your why. And so I love that you're talking about that because we we get to actually walk hand in hand as our patients
Troy:Mhmm.
Nate:Get to reestablish their new community Right. Of maintenance and and stability. Yeah. Such a a big thing
Nate:for us.
Nate:So and them.
Troy:Yeah. Yeah. Think we saw that, and we can we can wrap it up with this, but our our recent PHP, or the peer support, peer academy at graduation.
Nate:Yeah.
Troy:And so many people, we had we had 14 graduates and so many of them spoke to, I wanna give back to the community. I wanna be an asset. I wanna be somebody that's can support the next person in that. And I think that's the beauty of it is that, you know, you lean on that community for the support, you surrender to the community for that early help, and then you become part of that community that pays it forward.
Nate:Yeah. And that's the goal and that's the legacy of this work is that the community has the ability to heal itself. Yes. Yeah. So good stuff, man.
Troy:Yes, sir. Alrighty. That's it for us and hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
Nate:We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining.
Troy:Thank you for joining us on Pathways to Spirit. Remember, within our traditions and our spirit lies connection, support, love, and hope. Let us walk forward together, honoring our paths and supporting one another on the journey toward physical, emotional, and spiritual health and wholeness. Until next time, may the spirits of the ancestors guide you, and may you find peace, healing and renewal in every step along your journey.