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What's on the menu at Lucid Cafe? Stories of transformation; healing journeys; thought-provoking conversations about consciousness, shamanism, psychology, ethics. Hosted by Wendy Halley of Lucid Path Wellness & Healing Arts.
You're listening to Lucid Cafe. I'm your host, Wendy Halley. Hey. Thanks for joining me for another episode of Lucid Cafe. A podcast exploring healing, consciousness, and the complexities of being human.
Wendy:Well, speaking of those complexities, today's episode is kind of a perfect example of how challenging being human can be at times. So this is part 2 of a pod swap I did with CeeJay Barnaby, who's the host of the podcast Super Normalized, Where part 1 focused primarily on my otherworldly experiences in shamanic practice, This episode focuses on CeeJay's experiences. So if you listen to part 1, you got a glimpse of his inner world. Well, today, you're gonna get a big and quite intimate glimpse of how things have played out in CeeJay's inner world in a pretty dramatic way. So please enjoy part 2 of my conversation with CeeJay Barnaby.
CeeJay:Welcome to Supernormalize, Wendy Halley. We're back for a second interview here. So, I'm very looking forward to getting into our discussion today, Wendy. And as this is a bit of a shared podcast, maybe you wanted to introduce me as well.
Wendy:Yeah. Absolutely. We have CeeJay Barnaby with us, and it's such an unusual thing to be doing 2 podcasts at the same time. So
CeeJay:I'm trying to get used to it too.
Wendy:Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with me. I really appreciate it.
CeeJay:Yeah. Thank you too. I really appreciate coming back for a second interview here, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out because we had a lot to say last time. We were like, at the end we were like , let's do this again.
Wendy:So here we are. And so here we are. Absolutely. Yeah.
Wendy:Alright. So, CeeJay, why don't you tell me a little bit about, like, where is your head at these days as far as your perspective on the world and how you make sense of things?
CeeJay:How I make sense of things? Okay. So I like to see the way the world sort of informs me through information that gets presented to me. It's like I'm in a continuous dialogue with reality, and I have this sort of open sort of vision and an open sort of cosmology that allows me to be able to hear and be able to be aware of, say, intuitions that, point me in certain directions or information that I need to get my eyes across. And I think that comes about from my meditation practice, which I I try to do at least once or twice every day without fail, because that actually opens me up to having more of an intuitive sort of way in the world.
CeeJay:And my intuition comes in the form of either, like, ideas or seeing something, say, anywhere, like in the media or anywhere that just seems to grab my attention. And the way that sort of informs me, guides me on a on a path, and I and I seem to be to know the right path most of the time, not all the time. I mean, sometimes I get distracted and thrown around a bit, but, most of the time I try to keep everything pretty clear and on sort of some some sort of focus that allows me to keep a connection to what I would call infinite reality. Because, there does seem to be some sort of concerted effort at distraction in our reality nowadays. And I think keeping a clear focus or keeping a clear understanding of where you are going in life and how you can change to your benefit is and then the benefit of others because, you know, you have to, you know, be the change that you wanna see in the world and really, embrace that.
CeeJay:I think that's an important thing to do. So for me, that seems to be as a big a big part of me, and I I stick with that and try to keep that up as a part of my personal cosmology in the everyday.
Wendy:Okay. You mentioned, and I'm trying to remember the exact words you used, that there's an effort to distract us.
CeeJay:Yes.
Wendy:What do you mean by that?
CeeJay:Okay. Imagine okay. There seems to be, like, from my from my perspective of of my experiences that there is a there's many creative forces or many sort of forces in the universe, in our universe, our environmental sort of experience. And some of those forces are towards the pure creative and enhancement of understanding and experience in the world and of the world. And then there's others which are all like distraction, dissection, and they are, like, sort of negative credit sort of force.
CeeJay:So one could be love based and the other could be the opposite of love based, not necessarily hate, but it could be this distraction. So it stops you from really focusing on the pure authenticity of being here and experiencing from the absolute truth rather than the masks that we put upon the truth of what is.
Wendy:Okay. You make it sound as though it's an intentional thing.
CeeJay:Yeah. For sure.
Wendy:And so who or what would you suggest is intending it?
CeeJay:I haven't figured that out yet.
Wendy:Just a just a small question, a light question.
CeeJay:Okay. So there there seems to be from my experience I mean, I've been lucky in some ways because I've had experiences with plant medicines where the spirits that have come to me have always been really super helpful. And I would say, like, goading me towards personal growth and enhancement. But there has been times when I've been literally that's wanted to say it's like distract I mean, I've gotta say distracted because those it seems like a distraction every single time. It's like you could you have in every single moment, there's this choice that could come from your decision.
CeeJay:You know, it could be in one direction or it could be in another direction. And every single one of those is a door opening and, like, an opening towards truth or an opening towards distraction. And if you choose the trip path of truth all the time, it's I mean, it's a conscious effort to actually keep it going, then you're opening the portals towards authenticity and a greater connection to the world and a greater connection to nature and and the environment and everyone and everything around you. But if you tell you the truth is the other direction, you actually start shutting that down. And, yeah, I've had times in my life where I have shut that down.
CeeJay:And one of those times was intentionally just to see what would happen, and other times has been because I had experiences of possession to to varying degrees. And possession is is anything that that takes your attention more than it should. And and it seems like a lot of the social media and everything that we see around us in the way of divisiveness in the media and amongst people is a form of distraction. That is that, taking away from the truth.
Wendy:I think you've hit on something extremely important. It's something I talk about a lot. I've been wondering about this. I mean, I think about this a lot, the whole distraction piece. I think culturally, most these are just my my thoughts.
Wendy:I'm curious what you think of them, at least my thoughts as of today. Okay. That culturally, kind of in a universal way, sort of this Western culture perspective, We have a very external focus. In other words, we're-- it's all about the external world and that we're trying to organize and put in order the things in our external world so that our internal world will feel better. There's not a lot of internal focus.
Wendy:Right? And and I think that's why meditation seems like such a novel thing when it actually probably should be just the norm and probably how we should be leading our lives. But our focus is very externalized and it does it to me, I I look at it as like a byproduct of our cultural worldview.
CeeJay:Definitely. Colonialized mind.
Wendy:Exactly. Precisely. Yeah. So because we have maybe a lack of a relationship with our internal world, I think the byproduct of that is a lot of noise. So a lot of mental noise, a lot of emotional noise.
CeeJay:Exactly.
Wendy:And because of all that noise, it's really hard to tap into the spiritual side of you because you have to kind of sort through all of that shit to be able to get to your intuition, that higher guidance, those feelings of bliss that you can you can tap into on occasion. As you were talking about this external force kind of causing distraction, showing up through social media and advertisements and the media in general and just who's doing what because we're interested. Not really. But Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Maybe we're just very nosy. I don't know. That's the social media world. But if that internal noise is actually for people who are sensitive, I'm trying to find a way I don't think I've ever articulated this out loud, so I'm struggling to put it into words. But it's kind of like, why wouldn't our internal noise be external too?
Wendy:So, like, when you're trying to tap into that level of reality, it's like you're having to sort through everybody's noise that's kind of populating the planet. It sounds so dramatic, but, really, I mean, thoughts and feelings are frequency, are energy. Right? So, of course, energy isn't contained inside your body. It's going to travel throughout the energetic realm.
Wendy:Mhmm. And so if the energetic realm if, like, you're tapping into that through your meditation on your way to shamanic trance, you have to get through all of that noise
CeeJay:Yes.
Wendy:In order to get to this other place. Right? And if you're noisy already and you're trying to get through every other people's noise, it's like it's like, yeah, extra hard and frustrating. And I notice it when I'm doing shamanic work with folks in that if someone has a lot of disruption in their interior world, it's really hard for me to make my way through all of that noise in order to get to
CeeJay:Yep.
Wendy:What I need to perceive for my folks, my invisible friends to do the healing work, at least for me to understand what it is that they're doing. But, anyway, blah blah blah, all of that. Any thoughts on any of that stuff I was just saying?
CeeJay:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So, yeah, the the the noise that actually is, internalized, I actually would say even well, if we take it to the to the mundane degree of, say, the secret, you know, people will say, you know, the secret manifest everything, you know, by your will, which is quite, to put a plainly, Crowley and the Alema type based sort of magic. We actually do manifest reality around us from from our internal will.
CeeJay:And if your will is full of distraction and your will is full of dissection type stories, you know, we are unfortunately naturally colonized already in in our brain and our thinking and our understanding of time and categories.
Wendy:Mhmm.
CeeJay:When that ex that becomes externalized and you're a really noisy person, that turns into a life of drama and disaster continuously. And I've and I can say that because I've I've actually experienced it. I I had a partner, way back when, and and her life was just dramatic all the time. And I knew what was going on. It was because of all the stuff that she was carrying in herself, and it was so hard to work with.
CeeJay:But I vowed after that time after that experience, so that relationship to really be more, understanding with people, but also choose better partners. That's Nice. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Process of elimination. Alright. Now I know what doesn't work.
CeeJay:Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Wendy:So it helps me find what will work. That is really what dating is all about, I think.
CeeJay:I think so. Yeah. But, bring it back around. Yeah. So that that that noise does manifest in reality around you.
CeeJay:And so if you if you have a if you are a person that's, we just say, caught up in multiple story loops or, multiple understandings, which aren't exactly you or aren't even truly you, then you you pretty much feel like you're living life in a pinball machine, and everything's a quite a pain, and it's really difficult. And it's it's often feels like it's nearly impossible to sort out when you're inside that. And, it often does take a pattern break to be able to see it for what it is and to step back and go, okay. This isn't me, and these aren't my stories. Who am I, and what do I want and need to live?
CeeJay:You know? And when you hit that point, then things start to change like it's karma because you start to realize what you need.
Wendy:Okay. Well, you make it sound very simple.
CeeJay:Well, I'm fine too. It's not that simple, but yeah.
Wendy:I was gonna say, it's like once you realize it, it's I think that's a a big struggle on anyone's path is once they start wanting to be and do better Yes. They start paying attention to what's getting in the way, and then they find out, like, oh, all of these stories, like you're saying, these these narratives that I have playing out in my psyche are not serving me. And it's like, well, now that I know that, now what? Like, what's the true narrative? What's what's really if I'm not the things that I think I am, then what how do I figure out who I really am?
Wendy:And so I don't know if you went through a process like that, but I'm curious if you don't mind, talking a bit about your particular process of quieting the noise.
CeeJay:Okay. So quieting the noise, to me, I was actually really good at it as as a child, and then I sort of left behind my meditation practice that I have learned through my early teens, and life was quite messy because of that at the time and also, you know, growing up in my teens. That's just typical. In the end of my teens, I started to recover it again, and I did that through reading a book on positive thinking, and that helped me to sort of break through at the time. I can't remember the name of the book, right now because it's so long ago.
CeeJay:And that helped me to break through into an understanding of what, I needed to do about myself. And I started meditating again, and I did so with an effort. And what I mean by an effort is I set up a practice for myself where I say I'm doing it this time every day, this time every day. And the body comes along for the ride at that stage and goes, okay. Well, this time every day, I'm just gonna start letting go as well.
CeeJay:So you you do actually find that it becomes a concerted effort of the body and the mind when you set up a practice like that. And for me, just the the point of of making that that space for myself allowed all of the loops that I was carrying at that time to just break naturally. It's like I wasn't allowing in them to rule my life. And in breaking those loops, it it allowed for an expansion towards the infinite. Because those loops are sort of limiting in the way they hold you in and hold and when they're holding you in place, they hold you in in mind.
CeeJay:They hold you in in patterns. You know? Not all of the patterns are healthy. Not all the patterns are unhealthy, but they just are. But they are still loops, and and breaking those loops for me allowed me to, get more in touch with my intuition.
CeeJay:And and then over time, that allowed me to, again, connect more to nature, connect more to the nature of myself, my true self, and what I really need and and who I really am, and that helped me to, I'd say, ground ground out, really. That's the the ultimate the ultimate grounding. Yeah.
Wendy:Nice. Well said. So you're saying that, primarily, it's meditation that was the tool you used.
CeeJay:Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Meditation was the main tool I used for sure. I mean, what I was using other medicines as well sometimes, but meditation was the main key.
Wendy:What kind of medicines?
CeeJay:Psychedelics.
Wendy:Oh, okay. Plant medicines. Psychedelics.
CeeJay:And Yeah. Psychedelics. We're gonna say psychedelics.
Wendy:Not not all not always plant medicines. So it could be LSD or Yeah. Okay.
CeeJay:But they're all done consciously. I should say that too. It was it wasn't really like right. Recreational.
Wendy:It wasn't recreational. Yeah.
CeeJay:No. No. Because I didn't find recreational. Didn't really do anything good for anyone, in the end. And and it could be fun, but then that doesn't really help you.
CeeJay:You've actually gotta put effort into what I would call a ritualized practice of of experience. And when you do that, it actually invites in other forces to help you on your way, for sure.
Wendy:I'm intrigued.
CeeJay:Oh, okay.
Wendy:Well, I wanna hear about other forces. But before we go into that, I'd I'd love for you to describe what flavor of meditation you practice.
CeeJay:Oh, okay. I've talked to people and they say it's like a, Vipassana slash transcendental meditation type style. What I do is I I sit still either in an upright position on the floor or an upright position in a chair. And in doing so, I, just allow my body to relax, and I allow my mind to relax. And the thoughts that are popping into my head, I just observe them and let them pass, and I get to a certain point where I find a space between everything.
CeeJay:And when I hit that space between everything, I find at that moment, all understanding starts to get get abstract, and my my hearing becomes abstract. I can't understand what I'm hearing anymore. You know? At first, those those sort of, phenomenal effects were a bit surprising, and I'd pop back in. Yeah.
CeeJay:But once you get used to it and your body gets used to it and your mind gets used to it and also the mind also realize that this is a good thing and stops presenting things to you, then, yeah, you really hit the deep open space. And, it's like time traveling. You you get really deep, and in a moment, you're coming out. It's like, well, it's a new day. So, yeah, that's what I do.
Wendy:Very cool. So it sounds like you were you were just doing it intuitively. You were just doing meditation the way you wanted to do meditation or what made sense to you just to quiet yourself.
CeeJay:And I think when I talked about that last time, when I was 4 or 5 years old, I was compelled to go across the road to the forest from where we lived. And, being the seventies, I was loosely parented, so I was allowed to walk across the, the dirt road to the forest because there's no cars. So
Wendy:So do you had latchkey kids in Australia too in the seventies?
CeeJay:Yeah. We're we're I was only 4 or 5, so my mother was sitting on the balcony watching, but I she'd allowed me to go across the forest because I was so fascinated by it, and I had a thing that I used to do.
Wendy:Yeah. You you were very little when you did that. Okay.
CeeJay:Yeah. Very, very little.
Wendy:Didn't quite penetrate my brain. Okay. So you you go over there?
CeeJay:I go over there, and I walk across into the forest, and I walked I walked into, like, a little path. For me, it seemed like I was walking a 100 meters, but, you know, I went back and looked at it as an adult. It was only about 5 meters.
Wendy:That's adorable.
CeeJay:Yeah. And there was these rocks that I used to sit on. And as a baby, I'd sit there or a child or child, infant, I should say. I'd sit there, and beings would come to me from the forest, and they were my friends from on my memory of it. And, they taught me how to meditate.
CeeJay:And the way they did that was just say, be still. And they keep me, like, in a sort of space where I'd be still. And then all of a sudden, the plants around me started to wiggle like I'm underwater. And it was beautiful, and I loved it. And I used to do go and do that as often as I possibly could.
Wendy:That's so cool.
CeeJay:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Alright. So then going back to forces were helping you.
CeeJay:That's right. You asked me about meditation. Yeah. So these these beings told me how to meditate the first sort of way. And then as I got older, I sort of forgot that method.
CeeJay:I didn't like, it it's it, like, it fell away because of all of the social pressure. And what I mean by social pressure is that, like, for what was normal for me wasn't normal for anyone around me at all. So I had to sort of shut down a lot of that sort of communication with the spirits that I had at that stage. And that didn't help me, and in fact, it actually made things worse for me in the world. And, it it left me with the it's like a rift, in in my soul and my heart.
CeeJay:I actually felt a a yearning for that connection to those spirits again.
Wendy:And there was, like, losing a limb.
CeeJay:I didn't know what that was. It was. It was. Definitely was. And and and it felt like I was a fish out of water when it came to normal culture.
CeeJay:I was, I thought that what I was experiencing was normal. And then when I discovered that it wasn't normal, I sort of put pressure myself to be normal, and then I was thinking, well, I mean, normal. These people are retarded by comparison. So, when it comes to connection to the infinite, it seemed like I had something that I wish everyone had, and I wanted to bring that to them. Because that had been that became a part of my mission in in my experiencing of the world.
CeeJay:As I got older and I did recover that meditation practice, and it's it's helped me immensely since, I can tell you. It's like, I I need to meditate because that actually, helps my deeper connection to the world.
Wendy:Do you think you kind of answered the other forces question already? Do Do you think you already addressed that?
CeeJay:The other forces question. So, yeah, we would say that. Yeah. I mean, other forces. I mean, we were talking about other forces being both positive and negative.
CeeJay:I wanna actually touch on the negative ones too because a lot of people, from my understanding and my experience, when I talk about them in the past, although I'm finding more people that actually get it nowadays. Not all spirit entities or disconnect or, entities are actually friendly or out to help you. And you can invite them in through really ramping up the distraction in your life and you know, even those distractions themselves can be those, like, tentacles of those entities. And what I mean by tentacles, they're just falling away into to hook in to your consciousness to have a life through you. And that's not necessarily a good thing for you because often you'll have with, you know, their influence upon your life.
CeeJay:You'll you'll have ideas and things you're doing in the world, which you think are you, but then when they're gone, you realize was not you at all. Right? Like, that's addiction, for example.
Wendy:You had an experience like this?
CeeJay:Yeah. For sure. For sure. So I think we all have experiences like this. I mean, just picture addiction for 1.
CeeJay:When you're addicted to something, it's like the spirit of whatever it is you're addicted to, has taken you over and makes you come back for more and more and more. But that spirit of addiction is also experiencing through you using it. It it's gaining energy from you by your experience of it.
Wendy:Okay. That's an interesting frame. Yeah.
CeeJay:So, yeah, anything anything can be a a soft form of possession. Now I didn't like, I was a bit of, like, a as a part of trying to become a normal person. I I hate yeah. I laugh at that because I look back at it and think it's silly.
Wendy:Well, normal's a loaded word, isn't it?
CeeJay:It is. It is. You know? And I manifested a friend that was a very, scientific materialist. And part of that was, you know, also a connection to that sort of atheistic Cartesian dogma that, you know, is written into all of our, colonialized sort of world view, which makes everything so regular and, clockwork techno fantasy.
CeeJay:And that's really super comfortable if you, you know, you don't think you have any control of the world. And I I adopted that sort of frame as an understanding. And as a part of that frame, spirits don't exist, and a part of that frame also says that, you can't get possessed. That's just, you know, what they put in the movies. That's totally untrue because we we all get possessed all the time to different degrees and also to different agreements.
CeeJay:And revoking those contracts actually is a really healthy way to, get better in the world and get better with yourself, but I didn't believe that that was possible. And and one experience I had with possession changed me completely, and, I had an unfortunate incident with an encounter with a what you would call an evil sort of shaman in Byron Bay that attacked me and loaded me up with some spirits that were relentless in their perpetual attacks upon my psyche and my experience in the world. And in doing so, that made me realize that, well, true possession is really horrible and awful, and, you no longer really want it at that sort of overt level.
Wendy:What was the experience like? Like, how did you know something was
CeeJay:How did I know? Okay. So there's a big story to this. So I'll I'll try and make it short, because it is a long one. So I'm living in Byron Bay at the time, and I'd been to a music festival, and and I'd been out all night.
CeeJay:And I'd sort of missed my my ride for the way home at that stage, and I thought, well, look, I'll just walk home. And it was a hot, hot, hot summer's night. I think it was, early January in 1999. And all I've got on is a pair of jeans. It was a pretty wild sort of party.
CeeJay:And
Wendy:Okay.
CeeJay:Yeah.
Wendy:I guess that's another story for another time.
CeeJay:That is another story. And I'm walking back from where I am to where I was going to. That's, like, 45 kilometers distance. So I'm thinking I can walk that way. I'm barefoot, but I can I can do that, which which is, you know, not rational, but that's what I thought at the time?
Wendy:Okay.
CeeJay:And I'm walking along the road that leads out of Byron Bay towards the freeway. And if you know the area, there's one big petrol station there or gas station, you would say, on the right hand side as you're walking away from Byron Bay. And I I can see, like, this road is empty. There's nothing for many like, a couple of kilometers easily. And it's flat.
CeeJay:Totally flat. Yeah. And as I'm walking up to this petrol station or gas station, I I noticed that suddenly there's a couple of people sitting on the curb near it. I'm thinking, what's going on here? I didn't see those people before, and suddenly they're there.
CeeJay:And as I go up, I see a man sitting with a boy. The boy runs off, and this man is sitting there. And he looks at me, and he says, Christopher Columbus, you're on your travels, for this evening, and I know it's your Saturn return, which it was. And I'm here to talk to you about your life. Would you like to smoke a joint with me?
CeeJay:And he pulled his fingers apart, and there's a joint in it like he just magic it in the in the space right there. I'm like, and I looked at it and I went, what is going on? And I said, no. No. No.
CeeJay:No. No. I don't need to do anything very much.
Wendy:I'm good.
CeeJay:And he says, but we have some really good conversations to be had. And I said, yeah. I I'm totally good. Let's just forget about it. Look.
CeeJay:I I just wanna go home. You know, I've had a big day. I'm just refusing this this guy, and he says, well, I'll I'll catch you later. I'm walking along this road, and a couple of cars do pass me and but I look back, and he's gone. I'm thinking, is that real?
CeeJay:I don't know. I'm just not sure. And I get to the end of the road, which in those days, the there was a big crossroads there and a street light. And I woke up, and I see the guy standing there. I'm like, this has gotta be that guy that's back there.
CeeJay:Like, what is going on here? You know? And I walk up to him, and he says, Christopher Columbus, you're here again. Let's have a conversation. I'm like, oh god.
CeeJay:Okay. I figured this must be meant to be. I'm gonna go along with this. And he says, look. My name is Dennis, and I'm here to work with you tonight.
CeeJay:And as you can see here, I've got one clubfoot. And he's showing it to me like it's an important thing for me to notice. And so I said, alright. And he goes, can you get a stick for me so I can walk more easily? I said, okay.
CeeJay:So I grabbed this found a stick for him, and I gave him a stick. And then I said, well, I'm going to Myokum. I'm going this way. I'm gonna cross over these fields. I'm gonna cut across there to where I do where I've gotta go.
CeeJay:He said, just by chance, that's where I'm going. And
Wendy:Yeah. Right.
CeeJay:Okay. Okay. And I thought, okay. Look. I'm I'm gonna just walk along with Scott.
CeeJay:I'm not sure if I trust this person whatsoever. Now I hadn't had a drink of water for probably about 3 or 4 hours. I was dying of thirst at this stage. And he said, look, you're really thirsty. And I'm like, how's he doing?
CeeJay:And he said, just down there is some water. And I can see the creek, and I'm thinking, I don't know how good this creek is. Yeah. And and I said, okay. He said, look down the water.
CeeJay:The water down there is good, but you gotta do like, you've gotta cup your hands together and push it apart to get past all the oil on top because of all the Jesus. The camp because the camphor well, it's camphor laurels. It's the camphor laurels trees put oil on top to actually
Wendy:Oh, okay.
CeeJay:I thought it was petrochemical. Not necessary yeah. No. No. Not necessarily bad.
CeeJay:But, so I got a drink of water from that that creek, and I thought, I it actually wasn't so bad. I feel better for that. I must trust this man because, you know, you know, relationally, it made sense. So we started walking across the fields. And over a period of 2 to 3 hours, we were talking, and I realized that he's doing well, like, as I understand a bit of he's doing confusion technique and putting spells upon me.
CeeJay:And I didn't realize this at the time that they were spells, but later on as I understood more about how magic works, it became obvious to me what he would what he had done. And I found that these spells had made an impact upon me that I felt like I was buzzing at a different frequency, and I could feel this this energy inside me that I could not explain. And I knew that this guy was probably crazy and not really good for me, and I also knew that I had to get away. But then the strange thing is he was also very helpful in some ways because he was telling me stuff about my life that I couldn't. There's no way this guy would have known.
CeeJay:I've never seen this person in my life, but he's telling me about my life.
Wendy:Did you give him permission to kind of read you or or he was just doing it as you were having a conversation?
CeeJay:He was just doing it. But at one stage, he did did something that was really odd. He had held up his his pinky finger with a ring on it. I'm like, I don't even remember now today to to this day what that ring had on it. But he said, you're meant to remember me.
CeeJay:You are to recognize me by this. And he shows it to me like it's a warning. I'm thinking, what does that mean? And I don't know what it means. But it did occur to me that, when I went back in my journal that about 8 months before, I had seen a psychic, and she said, you're going to have an encounter on this date January next year.
CeeJay:And it will be with an evil shaman, and this is the way you'll recognize him. You must run away from that man.
Wendy:Did you remember that at the time?
CeeJay:No. I did not. I did not remember that at the time, so it was to my, detriment dramatically. So I had this encounter with this guy. He's putting spells on me, and he introduced introducing these 2 entities into me.
CeeJay:I don't know how he did that, but, at the time, he was using, like, a technique where he would point at me and pull a string on his arm while pointing at my, chakras, saying things in a different language. I didn't know what it was. And in doing that, I became severely possessed, but I didn't know that at the time. It actually was something that was sound like a like a buzzing sort of feeling at first. You You know, this this whole night wasn't strange discussions, and, eventually, I got away from this person because I thought, no.
CeeJay:You're damn crazy, and I'm totally crazy like you. And, I got home and to where I was staying with some other friends who were locals and told them about what happened. They said, oh, you gotta watch out. There's evil shamans around this time of year. Like, well, I'll probably just encounter 1.
CeeJay:It was good that they knew what that was all that was about. And sitting inside their house, and everyone's trying to look after me because I'd actually walked so far that I injured my feet, and they put, comfrey. They smashed up some comfrey they had in the in the yard into a mort with a mortar pestle and put all over my feet to recover my feet, which was good, and, looked after me generally. But I did notice that whatever it was was inside me was also starting to manifest itself. My first inkling of that was they said, look.
CeeJay:You've had no sleep. You've you've gotta rest. You've gotta rest. Just go in this room here and go to sleep. And as I was trying to go to sleep, every time I tried to stop all the noise around me, that everything around me in reality started to get louder, and people started to fight in the next room and shuffle furniture and do all crazy stuff.
CeeJay:And I've ended up putting fingers in my ears and and humming just to to block it out. And, I could hear somebody just as I was trying to block it out completely saying, hey. You can't do that. It's just like, whatever it was was in me was also manifesting reality around me at that stage. So the the internal hours that they that were that were attacking me did have control of reality around me at that same at that same that same time.
CeeJay:And for a period of, I think, it was about 3 and a half to 4 months where this was at its peak, that happened all the time, which was really disconcerting. So I found with these beings inside me, they were continuously attempting to, undermine my experience of reality by creating events around me and interactions with people which were negative, to put it plainly. Yeah.
Wendy:To what end do you think?
CeeJay:The end is to try and kill me. That was that's pretty much the plain the plain thing they that they wanted was for me to become so upset with my world and so depressed that I would end up taking my life. I wasn't gonna go there, and I knew that what was happening was this I've you know, for the first time in my life, I really realized what possession was, and this was obviously it. Because I had my rational mind, which was at the front, and then I'd have these had these 2 other entities, which would pop in and cause all sorts of havoc. And they were obviously not me, and I didn't feel them as me.
CeeJay:I just knew they were separate things which were in me. And, it's quite a journey. I ended up getting them out of my system by several sort of things. It took a lot of discovery to get there. And part of that discovery, I ended up moving out of that house to, my own shack in another place up in Western Mullumbimby, New South Wales, called Main Arm.
CeeJay:When I was in that shack, I started forcibly doing meditation again because that was one of the things that actually seemed to help. They didn't like that at all. It actually made them go to sleep, it seemed at times, and I could actually do some peace. And another shaman popped in and started talking to me.
Wendy:From the dream time Yep. Or in the physical reality?
CeeJay:From the dream time. From the dream
Wendy:time. Okay.
CeeJay:Yeah. That's the way I put it to. And at first, I was thinking, okay. So I'm possessed, but I'm also got another being that's popped up to say hello. This is you know, my world is weird.
CeeJay:But it seems like I was totally okay with it because I was like, well, okay. Maybe this being is here to help. And he said, yeah. I'm definitely here to help. And to put it clearly, this was a Mexican shaman.
CeeJay:He had a Mexican accent speaking in English to me, and he had a really cracking sense of humor. So, it was great to actually have someone that was actually happy that was working with me at that stage, and he didn't ever give me his name, but, he told me a path to take. And the part of that path was to make it really super obvious. He said, you have to drink your your urine. And I said, what?
Wendy:Yeah. No kidding.
CeeJay:And I said, why? And he said it's for balancing your your brain chemistry because they need your brain chemistry out of whack to keep you. I said, right. And I said, okay. How do I do it?
CeeJay:How do I do this? You know? And he said, you gotta first thing in the morning is your best time, and it's the the best quality of liquid, and you take your midstream. I was like, k. I said, sure.
CeeJay:And I said, you put that into a container, and then when the sun comes over the horizon, you look up at the sun, and you you drink it right then. I said, okay.
Wendy:Was it a onetime deal, or did you have to do it for No.
CeeJay:I had to do it for months.
Wendy:Oh, wow.
CeeJay:But I'll I'll tell you what I'll tell you what happened. So it
Wendy:Okay. Please. Yeah.
CeeJay:The the first time I did it, I was like, okay. This is this is wild. I'm doing something that's totally against anything I understand. It was really hard the first 3 or 4 times. And then after, I was like, well, I'm used to this now.
CeeJay:I'm gonna do it. So I think I started it on, like, a Monday or a Tuesday. So by Thursday, he said, look. I've got a I've got a surprise for you. And I said, what?
CeeJay:And he said, you've gotta go to the local community hall this Sunday. There's a there's a book sale on there, and there's a book there for you. I was like, I didn't know anything about this because I hadn't been out for a long time. So I go down there on the Sunday, and there was a book sale on. And I walk around in the books, and he says, this one this one.
CeeJay:He's pointing like, he's mentally pointing me towards 1. I went over and I pick it up. And it's a book on urine therapy, you know, an Ayurvedic book on urine therapy.
Wendy:I had heard that it is a therapeutic device used in India. Yeah. So Ayurvedic yeah. I I hadn't heard it it through the Ayurvedic tradition, but that would make sense. But, yeah, like, that's an interesting approach for what you're saying is depossession.
CeeJay:Well, it was it was for me, and and picking up that book and reading, and I was like, okay. So this being that I'm talking with that's got me drinking my own wee actually has a grounding. You know, there is a story in this, and it actually is a true story. And, obviously, this has been practiced for 1000 of years, and it must work. So I'll keep it up.
CeeJay:During that period of 3 months, I kept it up. The spirits kept on attacking me and trying to get back in and getting a deeper hold of me, and they couldn't. It's like they faded away, and all their external effects which was, manifesting in reality around me also faded away. Yeah. That's pretty much my story of massive possession.
Wendy:Okay. So why do you think this dentist guy chose you?
CeeJay:I have no idea. I've gotta say I have no idea. I I think I might have been just open to it at the time. I don't know.
Wendy:Were you under the influence of anything when you encountered him?
CeeJay:I was coming off the influence of things.
Wendy:Of things?
CeeJay:Yes. It was I would just say it was a day that didn't work out the way I thought it would. Gotcha. Yeah. It's it's like I'd cracked open something in myself at that stage.
CeeJay:So
Wendy:Okay. So there was a a a vulnerability of sorts.
CeeJay:Yeah. That's right. That's right. There was a vulnerability of sorts.
Wendy:Do you think that Dennis was do you think he was physical, or do you think he was nonmaterial?
CeeJay:He was definitely physical, and I know that because at one stage where we come to a small stream, and he says, look. You are the Christ. I have to carry you across the stream. And I said, okay. That's weird.
CeeJay:And he got down on his knees, and he said, jump on my shoulders. I jumped on his shoulders, and he carried me across the stream.
Wendy:On his shoulders? Not on his back?
CeeJay:On on his shoulders.
Wendy:That must have been his sight, but a guy with a club foot and a stick carrying you across water.
CeeJay:Yeah. Well, I mean, the stream was, like, maybe a foot wide, but it was
Wendy:Oh, oh, okay.
CeeJay:It was for him, it was metaphorical. So
Wendy:I see. Okay. But it sounds like he was also trying to plant an idea of you're a chosen one or you are Yeah. I see. Special being.
CeeJay:Yeah. A lot of so that's sort of
Wendy:What a trippy experience.
CeeJay:Oh, god. I don't recommend it.
Wendy:Yeah. And and it sounds like your meditation practice really helped
CeeJay:Massively. Massively helped.
Wendy:Pull you out of that experience. Yeah. Yeah. That's quite a story. Do you I mean, you had mentioned that people said, oh, yeah.
Wendy:There are evil shamans that come out at this time.
CeeJay:They've ex must have experienced them before. So, yeah, the people I lived with were pretty like a shamanic family as it was. So they knew that there was these sort of forces around this time.
Wendy:Was Dennis was he an indigenous fellow? No.
CeeJay:Dennis was actually Irish. I know. Right? I'm like Alright. Sounding weird.
CeeJay:Irish or Scottish? I can't I don't think it was Irish.
Wendy:From the UK.
CeeJay:Yeah. He was he was from overseas, and he did have an accent. And he was in as a part of pulling up his his pants leg to show me his club foot, he did actually also say that, you know, you'll notice this is these are really good quality tweed wool trousers. It's like, okay. But if I'm asked.
Wendy:Yeah. Well, that's helpful. Thanks for thanks for that information, man.
CeeJay:Thanks for that detail.
Wendy:And you were probably mightily impressed, right, with the quality
CeeJay:of the
Wendy:trousers. Yeah.
CeeJay:That's I thought it was just odd. Like, because that but my whole day had been odd, so it's like, it can't get any odd up, but it did.
Wendy:But it did.
CeeJay:Yes. It
Wendy:did. He's like, I'll I'll take that oddness, and I will Yeah. I will double it, triple it.
CeeJay:Yes. Yes.
Wendy:Well, I'm glad you got through that. I'm glad you figured that out. And I find it fascinating that you were able to navigate that territory on your own, that you were able to because of your own practice.
CeeJay:Well, I mean, it wasn't only on my own. I did have that, Mexican Shabbat that did help me through. There were other spirits.
Wendy:No. But, I mean, he helped you, but he was part of your spiritual practice. He you said he was in the dream time. He came to you in your meditations or he came to you in the physical?
CeeJay:He well, I wasn't meditating at the time. It just turned up as an extra spirit entity that started talking to me in my head
Wendy:Okay. Alright.
CeeJay:Plainly. So to me, it was like because I'm I have times when I'm severely open to contact, and spirits can come up and talk to me. And depending on whether they're good or not, I'll talk to them.
Wendy:And how do you discern that?
CeeJay:I can just tell and feel feel it. Yeah. When you carry a lot of light, I think that actually actually does act as a bit of barriers that the negative ones don't really get a chance to come in.
Wendy:Not like a beacon?
CeeJay:There still can be a beacon. But, I find that for myself, I I have a lot of protection on my side. So I think I'm I'm pretty well good. I mean, occasionally, I get possessed. So, but like small possessions, like, say, different plant medicines or maybe chocolate.
Wendy:Or I can definitely relate to the chocolate.
CeeJay:Yeah. Or a terrible TV series.
Wendy:I never considered that possession. I just consider that a nice escape.
CeeJay:Well, escape is possession, isn't it? Like, you know, this being distracted?
Wendy:According to your definition of it, yeah. I guess it is. I mean, I see that as somebody who's does intense work and is an intense person myself Yes. And very sensitive on top of it. It's like diving into a story helps it gives me reprieve
CeeJay:from Oh, for sure. For sure. You gotta pick the right stories though, I think.
Wendy:Yeah. Well yeah. I mean, I probably don't do that,
CeeJay:but whatever the rush is. I don't think any of us does. That dude, that's why that's why I was saying it.
Wendy:Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. So what's your relationship like then with fear?
CeeJay:Don't have fear, but during that time that I had that possession, I experienced absolute horror and, was overwhelming and and was terrifying all the time, which was really awful. So when I was in that possession, I didn't know I didn't know fear properly until I had that. And, it was well, to put a playmate, it's like the the biblical fire and brimstone coming down on you continuously. You just felt like, like, I felt like every moment was gonna be something horrible happening. That's how awful it was.
Wendy:That sounds terrible.
CeeJay:Yeah. It was. Yeah. So three and a half months of that.
Wendy:Like, you're waiting for the the other shoe to drop all the time.
CeeJay:All the time. Because that's how they they triggered sort of chemistry in me to to have that sort of thing. Because you think about it, these beings are drinking like there's no tomorrow. They really, really enjoy what they call the loush, I think it is, which is like an energy for the force, and they get that out of you through extreme emotion. And when they do that, they get rewarded.
Wendy:Oh, I yeah. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah.
CeeJay:Comes up in, a lot of the reductions for the circles and but, yeah. So that's their aim, I think, is to actually get a lot of energy out of you. And in doing so, fear is probably the best one. That's that's, I think, the one of the best ones to
Wendy:Oh, yeah. No. That's it's an effective tool for anyone to use against someone else.
CeeJay:Yeah. When people are in fear states, they don't make clear decisions, do they? So they just, yeah, narrow focus.
Wendy:No. And I think that is kind of where we're collectively at is in a place of fear.
CeeJay:Well, I think they tried their best on in the last little while, but I think more people are waking up because of it. It's like, does the world have to be like this? Do we have to listen to these idiots?
Wendy:I don't think so. Yeah. I certainly hope so. Absolutely. Yeah.
Wendy:I still see us as all very collectively lost, again, with all of that noise. But I'm I'm noticing that more and more folks seem to be it's almost like it's the volume is getting turned up so high that the discomfort that people are feeling is getting so intense that they're just like, make it stop. What do I need to do to make this stop? And asking that question
CeeJay:Yeah. People are looking for a Skype.
Wendy:Well, yeah. Because we have that external thing, so they're going externally. So what do I need? Antidepressants, antianxiety medication, sleep medication?
CeeJay:Yeah. A
Wendy:lot of people seem to be leaning towards more spiritual avenues to to investigate what's going on within themselves because maybe they tried everything else and it doesn't seem to be
CeeJay:Yeah. I think so.
Wendy:Settling what's going on inside of them.
CeeJay:True. True.
Wendy:But, yeah, I I'd have to say in the last, yeah, the last year, it's like almost everybody I'm working with is in crisis, a crisis of some sort.
CeeJay:Yeah. I would say that. I mean, talking to people around me and whatever it is in the Astra, whether that's causing it, but, it's like everyone has had, like, a for 2,023, for example, everyone has had ongoing catastrophe, but also amazing stuff too. So it's like
Wendy:Yeah. No. There's that side as well. You're right.
CeeJay:So I don't know. I'm I'm enjoying everything. It's like this is a I've just been through a disaster here where I live, and and, I just look at it as like an opportunity for enjoyment. There's another way to enjoy things. You just gotta go, okay.
CeeJay:Well, this is where we are now. This is where we are now. Things aren't exactly as it used to be, but there is still a way to enjoy everything because this is the life that we chose. This is the life that we chose. It's not horrible.
CeeJay:It's not terrible. I mean, there is events that happen in that, but not every moment is. So be here now. Be in this moment. What have you got?
CeeJay:Do you have gratitude for that? That's that's the important thing, I think.
Wendy:And what if it's all is a dream?
CeeJay:God. That a part of us
Wendy:is dreaming into existence.
CeeJay:Yeah. For sure. There is does seem like it it does seem like that at times for sure and, stronger at other times than others.
Wendy:Yeah. Well, I mean, that's that's how I kind of make sense of things right now anyway. But
CeeJay:Mhmm. Yeah. It does. I mean, it does have that dream logic, doesn't it? That's why we have all this sort of these twists and turns and and, plot changes.
Wendy:It's like, what? Now? This is crazy. Yeah.
CeeJay:Yeah. Yeah. It's gold on acid.
Wendy:So what do you I mean, you you don't do any kind of I mean, this is just your own solo practice and your podcast is just about exploring otherworldly events and people who
CeeJay:Yes.
Wendy:Do healing work and have had experiences and
CeeJay:That's right.
Wendy:So you're basically you're just sharing information. You're not offering services to people, or are you?
CeeJay:No. No. I should.
Wendy:If you if you did, what would you offer?
CeeJay:If I did, I would offer divination services because I do psychic work and I do tarot work. In a pinch, I could do some astrology, like transit readings and stuff like that as well. I wouldn't say I'm an expert at that. But, from what I hear from other astrologists, that's how it always feels in the start, so don't worry about it. So
Wendy:How about guidance on urine therapy?
CeeJay:Oh, no. I'd I'd be I'm happy to talk to people about that if they wanna try that. I mean, that's fine. Yeah.
Wendy:I'm asking because if anyone is listening and they're intrigued by what you've had to say.
CeeJay:Well, look look, there is ways to like, I'd I'd be totally willing to talk to people about their understanding or position, or if they're actually going through stuff to if they wanna reach out and and talk about how they can get through it, totally fine with talking with people about that. That's I'd be happy to help people get out of their their loops if they want to or try to help them or point them in directions, that may help them for sure.
Wendy:So what what's the best way to get a hold of you?
CeeJay:Best way to get a hold of me directly is to write to me on email at supernormalized with a zed, at proton.me, and that's my main email address for all of this sort of work. Otherwise, yeah, actually, just we'll just leave it at that. It's probably just just best to go straight to that email.
Wendy:Okay.
CeeJay:And then if you wish to listen to my podcast too, get out of mind, I'd like to plug that. And, yeah, that's just supernormalized@supernormalized.com, I should say. Yeah. Let's make it nice and simple.
Wendy:And on any platform where you listen to podcasts, I imagine.
CeeJay:That's right. Yeah. It's on every podcast platform. Then just type in supernormalized, and you'll find me.
Wendy:Alright. Excellent. Well, this has this has been quite a conversation.
CeeJay:Yeah. For sure. I still think we've got more to say, Wendy.
Wendy:Are we not done yet? We have more yeah. I'm sure there's always stuff we could talk about. Absolutely.
CeeJay:Yeah. For sure. For sure. Thank you so much for having me on your show, and thanks so much for coming on my show again.
Wendy:Yeah. No. Thank you.
CeeJay:Our time.
Wendy:Yeah. No. It was it was a lot of fun. Yeah.
CeeJay:Maybe maybe there's a part 3. We'll see.
Wendy:We'll see. Let's see if maybe people, give us feedback, and they wanna hear more.
CeeJay:Yeah. That's right. Give us some feedback if you like it. That's right. It's a good idea.
Wendy:But not if you don't.
CeeJay:Actually, I don't mind if people don't. I mean, if I don't like it and tell us, because then I know, like, well, that didn't work or Tell us everything. Tell us the truth.
Wendy:Well, yeah, I'll I'll get behind that.
CeeJay:Yeah.
Wendy:Just don't be mean about it.
CeeJay:No. No. Don't don't be mean. That's boring. Yeah.
Wendy:That's boring. It's also mean.
CeeJay:Yeah. True.
Wendy:Alright, sir. Well, thank you so much.
CeeJay:Thank you too, Wendy.
Wendy:There's a lot to unpack there. I really appreciate CJ's honesty and his willingness to share his experience with me and now you. As he was talking, I was thinking about what it must be like to hear about his experience. And I think the downside of sharing stories like CJ's is that it can make you, as a listener, feel powerless to what he's referring to as dark or unsavory forces out there in the universe. If you've listened to me talk about my thoughts on evil and dark forces in other episodes, you already know that I don't quite see things the same way as CJ.
Wendy:And I'm not saying that what he experienced wasn't real, but what I've learned over the years, right or wrong, is that your worldview can't help but influence how you make sense of things that don't make sense. So if hearing CJ's story ramped up your fear, please know that you are an innately powerful person with a lot of agency with how you think and what you believe and subsequently how you make sense of things. And like I said at the end of our conversation, maybe this life we're living is really just all a dream, or maybe you're thinking that I'm just naive or really lucky that what happened to CJ hasn't happened to me. The truth is there are disturbing experiences I've had. I'm thinking of 1 in particular where I did frame what happened in a similar way to CJ and remember how powerless and vulnerable I felt as a result.
Wendy:I look back on that time now and see the experience much differently. As the Hawaiians say, the world is what you think it is. And when you really, really contemplate what that means, it's an immensely powerful thing. So, I'll leave you with that. Do with it whatever you like.
Wendy:So thank you so very much for listening. I hope the rest of your day is crazy peaceful and really fun. Until next time.