The Off Market Mindset

In this powerful episode of Off Market Mindset, host Michael Riordan sits down with Steve Pugh, a 28-year real estate veteran and one of Florida’s top brokers. Steve opens up about his journey—from battling addiction and facing jail time to becoming a high-performing broker associate under eXp Realty, closing 40–50 deals a year, and leading one of Central Florida’s top teams.

Steve shares the real reason he walked away from owning his own brokerage to align with eXp, and how he leveraged its systems, training, and network to simplify his life and scale his business. But this episode goes far deeper than real estate. Steve gets raw about the struggles of addiction, the turning point that saved his life, and how personal development, faith, and accountability shaped the man—and leader—he is today.

If you're a realtor, investor, or anyone navigating life’s hard choices, this episode is packed with lessons on growth, humility, and how collaboration can transform your business and your future. You'll also learn:

The truth about brokers switching to eXp Realty

Why most realtors miss out on working with investors

What tools and systems Steve uses to train and support his agents

How creative financing helps distressed sellers AND realtors

Why mindset and environment are everything

👉 Whether you're a real estate professional or someone striving for personal transformation, this conversation will resonate.

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Creators and Guests

Guest
Steve Pugh
Steve Pugh is a seasoned real estate professional with over 28 years of experience in the industry and more than 40 transactions closed annually in personal production. Originally from Wales and now based in Central Florida, Steve is a top-producing broker associate at eXp Realty, where he leads one of the highest-performing teams in the state. Formerly the owner of his own independent brokerage for over 16 years, Steve made a strategic shift to eXp Realty to leverage its scalable systems, collaborative culture, and national platform. His decision allowed him to focus on mentorship, production, and growth without the administrative burdens of traditional brokerage ownership. Beyond real estate, Steve’s journey is marked by powerful personal transformation. After battling addiction and overcoming legal and financial setbacks, he embraced sobriety in 2016 and has since dedicated his life to becoming a better leader, father, and man of faith. His story is one of redemption, grit, and continuous personal growth—making him a respected voice in both the real estate and recovery communities. Steve is passionate about helping agents unlock their potential, providing clients with options through creative financing, and building a legacy through integrity, service, and mindset.

What is The Off Market Mindset?

Exclusive Guest Interviews
your front-row seat to the real-world playbook of creative real estate investing. Each week, host Michael Riordan sits down with deal-makers who thrive outside the conventional mortgage box—think subject-to specialists, seller-finance pros, lease-option architects, note investors, master-lease tacticians, and more.

Behind The Scenes Stories
Pulls back the curtain on our guests creative real-estate deals, revealing the late-night negotiations, surprise setbacks, and clever pivots that never make the highlight reel. Host Michael Riordan walks you through real time situations to give you a first hand perspective into what creative real estate is really like.

Real Time Strategies
We dive into real transactions alongside investors who are knee-deep in the action, using creative financing to solve homeowners’ toughest challenges. Together we unpack every tactic—how they sourced the lead, structured the terms, and navigated the roadblocks—so you can see exactly what it takes to move a deal from problem to payoff.

Steve Pugh:

We're now tuning in to the off market mindset. Where

Michael Riordan:

real estate gets real. Hey, guys. Welcome to the off market mindset podcast. My name is Michael Reardon. I'm the host here, and I'm joined here by Steve Pugh.

Michael Riordan:

Now, Steve, he's a twenty eight year licensed broker, twenty three years as a Florida broker, sixteen years owning his own brokerage, five years of those were with eXp. He saw it as a better platform to run his business, which he'll go over a little bit later. Now, with that, he's able to get the company to top 10 in the state of Florida, as well as his company is also one of the number one brokerages in Central Florida area. And he is also doing over 50 transactions a year personally. So he is still active and he's not one of those people sitting on his couch enjoying the life.

Michael Riordan:

Steve, if you don't mind just kind of going over anything that I might have missed and what you'd like to of share with the audience here, before we get started.

Steve Pugh:

Yeah, no, all good. Thank you. I appreciate that, gracious introduction. I'm not over 50. I'm about 40 to 50 units a year.

Steve Pugh:

Age wise, I'm nearly over 50. And run one of the top EXP teams in Florida, and then one of the top Central Florida teams. Yeah, I relinquished. You said brokerages and all good, Mike, but I relinquished that headache about five years ago. So I just kind of run a brokerage within a brokerage, obviously being under the eXp umbrella.

Steve Pugh:

So, Okay.

Michael Riordan:

And I never quite understood that. I mean, let's say that there is a broker watching this and they were thinking about going into eXp. Explain the difference because, I mean, you're still a broker, right? But then you're brokered by EXP is how it's kind of like broken Yeah,

Steve Pugh:

so I'm actually a broker associate. Downgrade your license, right? All brokers out there are like, oh, like freaking out right now. I have the same issue, right? I think it's and I'm not saying they do, but a little bit of a bit of it is ego, right?

Steve Pugh:

So you downgrade your license from a broker to broker associate, and then now now I'm just a team lead and I lead a team. Yep. So you mean the top

Michael Riordan:

brokers have egos? No way.

Steve Pugh:

No. Would never Never would would have thought.

Steve Pugh:

So I relinquished all the liability, and what I found was is I was wearing a lot of hats. I was in production. I was training agents. You train them, then they'd leave. Babysitting agents, putting systems into place, onboarding systems, training systems, paying for tools, being the trainer.

Steve Pugh:

It was just too much for me personally. So I just leverage all of eXp systems tools and resources and have made some great relationships and connected and collaborated with some great people and continue to do so along the way.

Michael Riordan:

Got it.

Steve Pugh:

That's it, man.

Michael Riordan:

And talking about collaborating, I have to thank you because you're one of the first people to help me out getting into real estate years and years ago there. Being part of your team and brokerage and everything like that

Michael Riordan:

I keep saying your brokerage, but I mean, that's how I look at

Steve Pugh:

Habit, Mike. Habit.

Michael Riordan:

But being part of your ecosystem, I guess we'll say, right? I have noticed that you still provide tons of value. You're constantly doing trainings. You're going over the systems and processes and everything else. So any other person watching this that may be a broker may say, well, I don't want to give up that.

Michael Riordan:

Like, I want to still train my teams and I want to still offer them value and stuff like that. Obviously, you're still doing some of those things or even all those things really. But how has joining EXP helped you to streamline that so it's not so much work for you anymore?

Steve Pugh:

Great question. I mean, obviously they have comprehensive onboarding comprehensive checklist to try to get agents into production as quickly as possible, right? They have programs called FastCap that you can plug agents into. It's a six week training program just to kind of get them kick started and get them into production quickly. My goal is to understand that people have to do the work, right?

Steve Pugh:

You can lead a horse to water, you can't help it drink, and you can't want more for somebody than they want for themselves. But my goal is to give every business partner or agent that we come into contact with or that partners with us the greatest chance of succeeding through tools, the systems and the resources that we have. That's my goal. And obviously we're building the airplane as we fly. We've got a lot of work to do, but we've definitely come a long way.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah, no, I definitely understand. Now, one thing that I really like about eXp and as you know, I've left eXp and I've came back before and stuff, and I wasn't even sure if I wanted to be a realtor anymore because obviously the reason for this podcast, this is the off market mindset, right? So people are probably wondering why you're on this podcast, and we'll go over that later. But one thing I really love is the tools. And you have access to CRMs and, like you said, training.

Michael Riordan:

There's marketing materials. Materials. I mean, you name it, everything that you need for your business is there. What guess, what tools would you say with all your experience? I mean, was it twenty eight years in the business now or twenty six?

Michael Riordan:

It is twenty eight.

Steve Pugh:

Yeah. Don't forget about those other two. Those other two are important, Michael.

Michael Riordan:

Right? So the twenty eight years in the

Michael Riordan:

business, they're like, what would you say with your experience is the most valuable tools that eXp offers for maybe a broker to offer to their agents? Let's say you have a broker or a team wanting to move to eXp. And then what would you say is the most valuable to the agents themselves?

Steve Pugh:

Well, that's a great question. I think most valuable is going to be a performing CRM, right? At the end of the day, the best CRM is the one you're going use, but there are ones that are better than others. So a quality CRM is what I would say, is probably paramount. And then from an agent perspective, it's gotta be the MLS or a way to house data where they can search properties.

Steve Pugh:

Yeah.

Michael Riordan:

Okay. And I mean, obviously, somebody can go to Keller Williams or any of the other brokerage out there and get the MLS. What would you say specifically that eXp offers that would provide more value to an agent?

Steve Pugh:

At the end of the day, they're all vehicles, right? KW is a vehicle, eXp is a vehicle, REMAX is a vehicle. All I've discovered and it's not for everybody. I mean, in my personal opinion, if you're a part time agent, if you're an agent who is happy doing, you know, anywhere between five to eight deals a year, eXp is not the place for you. You're better off joining 100% brokerage, right?

Steve Pugh:

If you are growth minded, learning based, coachable, you wanna grow, this is where you need to be because this is where the top talent is. And I don't want this podcast to be a sell on eXp and us go on and on about it. But it's going back to, and I forgot what I was saying in the beginning, Michael, but in terms of the most valuable tools with inside eXp, for me it's the collaboration and it's the relationships and that's not a tool at the end of the day. I mean, it's debatable. It is and it isn't.

Steve Pugh:

But that's what's made made the difference for me is the environment. So I as you may or may not know, I I I had some demons in my past and struggled with some alcohol and drug addiction. I've been on a quest to be a better human for the last I mean, I sobered up nine years ago, going on ten years now. But for probably seven, these last seven years I'm just on a quest to become better, right? A better human, a better leader, a better parent, a better spouse.

Steve Pugh:

And it takes time and it's not easy. It's daily work. But this may sound cliche or corny, but I think that my affiliation with the company has helped that and continues to do so.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah. When you say your affiliates, is it just having support from other people in the company or is it knowing you have such a reputation with them? What do you mean?

Steve Pugh:

Just support from people in the company and the relationships that I've built and the people that hold me accountable. Because that's what accountability is, in my opinion, it's the highest form of love, right? Is accountability. But professionals will seek it, amateurs will avoid it.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah, of course.

Steve Pugh:

So, yeah, it's just being in those circles and knowing that you have other like minded people to run with. Because, you know, in all seriousness, this has taken me a long time to realize and it's still a struggle in some cases. Not everybody wants what you want. Not everybody is driven the way you are, some people are happy doing X and you just have to understand that, you know? So it's good when you can get around like minded people that are striving for the same things.

Steve Pugh:

And that's what I found.

Michael Riordan:

100%. I mean, the way that eXp has been growing, it kind of goes along with what you're saying, having a growth mindset and stuff like that. And I'm part of the sub two community for real estate investing by Pace Morby, and he's got a saying, your vibe attracts your tribe. Right? So, I mean, it makes sense exactly what you're saying.

Michael Riordan:

And it's actually one of the reasons why I stayed in eXp is because of the networking ability. You know? Mhmm. One of the hardest things in investing is finding realtors that want to work with you as an investor, which I'll touch on that a little bit later. But I want to ask you some things about what you just covered, not about eXp or anything, but about your own personal growth.

Michael Riordan:

One of the reasons why I do this podcast is for other people to be able to see other people's experiences and see their successes and their growths. It's not just about real estate. I want people to use this as a vehicle to be able to do self improvement as well. One of my podcast episodes, I talked about a guy that's working together with his wife. And I'm sure there's people that they're wondering, How the heck do I do that?

Michael Riordan:

Right? Like Yeah.

Steve Pugh:

Oh, sure. I'm sure.

Michael Riordan:

More about your past experiences and maybe how they were affecting your life. What made you realize that you had to make a change? And then how did you go about making that change?

Steve Pugh:

These are great questions. We're going to be here for a while. I'll try to condense it if I can, Michael. So I was born in Wales, which is right next door to England. Had a pretty good childhood, dad's an alcoholic, he's still going, not as bad as he used to be but he's still going.

Steve Pugh:

So I'm a true believer, it's court not taught, right? And it's generational. And I didn't know that at the time. And I realize that now looking back that I potentially changed the trajectory of my kids' lives. Understanding that if they'd have grown up in a similar household than I did, there would have been some of the same behaviors.

Steve Pugh:

But long story short, moved over to The US. I always worked, but got my license at 19. I was a worker, so I did well. Back then I was probably selling 15 to 20 homes a year in my second, third year. Drinking increased.

Steve Pugh:

Then I got introduced to marijuana, then the marijuana, which they say is a gateway drug, that escalated into cocaine, and then that's when kind of the spiral started. Know, I was they used to call me, Mick Dundee in the ghetto because I sounded like the guy from Crocodile Dundee. So when I would hang out in the when I drive in the ghetto to get my drugs, they'd be like, hey, here comes Mick. Here's Mick So you look back and it's funny, but you

Michael Riordan:

know, I don't know what

Michael Riordan:

it is about being in the ghetto, but they always have nicknames for you.

Steve Pugh:

So I have kind of like a similar background and they used to call me Iron Mike because I had big muscles back then. Used to go to the gym every day. Was like

Michael Riordan:

Iron Mike, Big Mike. And one of my friends used to make fun of me because when he would hang out with us, he would be like, Dan, dude, how many? You are Iron Mike, Big Mike, Big White Mike, White Mike. Like, how many nicknames you got? How do you keep up?

Michael Riordan:

And I am just like,

Steve Pugh:

I don't know. Yeah. Thankfully, I only had one, right? But I could see that, I could see that. So then, yeah, it progressed from there.

Steve Pugh:

I was in and out of jail. I mean, never did a long time. I think the longest I did was about three and a half weeks. But I was in and out, I was in rehab, court mandated. And then I don't know, Michael, I don't know.

Steve Pugh:

I was 37, so 47 now. Sobriety date is foureightsixteen. God, the man upstairs always make sure I don't screw that up because you just double it. Foureightsixteen, so I'll never forget that date. Even though I couldn't, that's why he planned it that way.

Steve Pugh:

So I met my partner, Laura, shortly before that, before the sobriety day and maybe I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, you know? Because I lost everything during the recession and I was at a point where I was, and I'll say this, guess I'm not ashamed to say it, but I was at the point where I was stealing appliances out of foreclosed homes to support myself and my drug habit because I had access, right? And I saw it in my mind as well, I'm not stealing off an individual, I'm stealing off a corporation. And I had access to all the houses. I'll never forget, me and a buddy of mine who overdosed and died.

Steve Pugh:

He passed about three years ago now. He kept going down the same road and I stopped obviously. And we were in maybe two occasions. It got to the point where we were stealing pool heaters and throwing them in the back of my Hummer. Incredible.

Steve Pugh:

Driving around an H2 Hummer and I've got no money and, you know, so we're halfway, we're in this one house and we're halfway across the living room coming from the kitchen with the fridge and a realtor pulls up.

Michael Riordan:

Oh wow.

Steve Pugh:

Realtor pulls up to show the house and we see

Michael Riordan:

Hey, we're just putting it in, so

Steve Pugh:

you're making an offer. The window. Once again, back and it's funny, thank by the grace of God, you can laugh at it now. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we're just, you can see us like we're shuffling across the living room trying to rush it back in to put it back in the kitchen.

Steve Pugh:

And right when she opens the door, we push it back in and I'm pretending to show him the house. Oh, look at this beautiful kitchen. So, always like that. And, you know, three and a half years into sobriety, I got involved with some stock and I was dealing with things I didn't know anything about and I had managed to get some money to the side and I got involved with oil futures and then the futures, that's when it crashed. Remember that?

Steve Pugh:

I was back in '20 I think and I ended up losing, I was and a half years sober, I ended up losing $160, which was near enough the majority of what I had left and I came so close to relapsing. I came close to relapsing but he kept me strong and I persevered and kept on going. I'm trying to find the value in this for somebody that's maybe struggling with the same things. I mean, Lord gave me an ultimatum, either sober up or I'm leaving. And you know, I guess the crave to drink, my journey became more spiritual and he took it away from me, thankfully.

Steve Pugh:

I don't know why with all the things that I'd done but that urge left me and from then I've been on a quest to grow and get better. I think it definitely helped me. I think it helped with my mental toughness. I think going through that, right? Those experiences you don't see at the time, they're preparing you for things to come and I think it definitely helped with my mental toughness, my discipline.

Steve Pugh:

I could be more disciplined but I've definitely come a long way. And my habits. And I think that is the hardest thing for people to grasp. The change comes in you, right? If you change your habits, you'll change your life.

Steve Pugh:

But for some people, including myself in some areas, it's just so difficult for people. I wish I had a magic answer. I plugged into Hal Elrod's book, The Miracle Morning. You guys are probably aware of that, you may be aware of that. So I still institute a lot of that into my daily life in terms of the time that I get up and the reading that I do in the morning and the exercise that I do.

Steve Pugh:

I guess that's been a big help. So, yeah, it all starts within you. If you work on you and you consistently do that, then your life will begin to change. Oh yeah, that was a lot.

Michael Riordan:

I can relate man, mean at the end of the day basically all you're saying is you were going through hard times, You just had an moment where things made sense for you, where you just felt like you had a change. It wasn't something that you planned on, but it just kind of found its way into your life. And at that point, you just decided that you weren't going to do anything that you were doing in the past, like the drinking, the drugs and the stealing and all that. You just decided to make a change. And I guess aside from the books and maybe meditations or self help and the things that you might have done, what else would you say has helped you with making this change?

Michael Riordan:

Obviously, God as well. I know you're heavily involved with the church and God and stuff and your spirituality. What else would you say has been a main factor in that change as well?

Steve Pugh:

Eliminating people, places and things, right? For sure. And then being around, once again, like minded people that are on the same quest or maybe have experienced the same challenges, and have also decided to make a change. That's a great question, Michael, and I think I take the time to think about it enough. And I think that I need to spend some more time there so I can potentially help other people that are in the same situation, you know, because I was very selfish for many, many years.

Steve Pugh:

Some people will say I still am, but I was. I've come a long way. Yeah, that's something that we'd all work on. But definitely my relationship with the Lord, and I know that I wouldn't be here. I know however crazy that sounds, you you just question why you made it and other people didn't, and that's why you want to strive to be better, you know?

Michael Riordan:

No, 100%, man. But we actually have similar stories in a way. In 2019, I got arrested for selling weed and cocaine, And I didn't really do drugs much. I did smoke weed, but it was weird. So just a little bit about kind of where I came from.

Michael Riordan:

Growing up, I was a good kid. I grew up in a good household. My dad's kind of an alcoholic. He smokes cigarettes all the time and stuff. And, you know, he's he's got his personal issues that, you know, he deals with.

Michael Riordan:

He didn't go down the route of, you know, the same route that you did. He's more just kind of stuck in his waist. So I grew up watching him, but then I also grew up with my mother who was the role model for me. She took care of me. Taught me.

Michael Riordan:

She would sit me at the kitchen table till I was crying. It would be like 01:00 in the morning, which she'd make sure that I did all my homework before I went to sleep. Growing up, I don't know why, but I had this need for people to like me. So I was always the class clown, the funny kid. I was one of the cool kids, but then also at the same time, I got bullied in school and stuff too.

Michael Riordan:

And it was just a really weird situation and just got in with the wrong crowds. I started selling drugs, sold weed for a long time, and got into selling cocaine and guns. And I'll never forget the day that I got arrested. The whole SWAT team came into the Applebee's kitchen. I was a server, and they surrounded my entire staff.

Michael Riordan:

We were having a meeting, and it was crazy because at that moment, that's when, like, reality hit. Like, oh, shit. You're screwed. Right? From that, I ended up doing three months in jail.

Michael Riordan:

I got two years probation. My lawyer got my cocaine charge dropped. I had four felony marijuana charges dropped, and I got stuck with one felony. I didn't learn my lesson when I got out of jail. I moved in with some friends, started doing the same type of stuff.

Michael Riordan:

Luckily, one of my friend's mothers was friends with the sheriff. She was a paralegal the guy that was the head sheriff at the time. She was like, hey, the only reason that I'm telling you this is because my son goes to your house. And she told me and the three other people that live in the house, she was like, the police are coming to raid your house.

Steve Pugh:

Oh my god.

Michael Riordan:

And you didn't hear this from me, but you better clean yourselves up, and you're not hanging out with my son anymore. I'm telling you this because if he comes over here, I don't want you guys letting him in. So I was like, oh shit. So immediately I took all the drugs that I had. I threw them in the woods and I never turned back to doing that again.

Michael Riordan:

And that's kind of like my moment. Like, that made me realize that was the realtor showing the house, right, for you. Yeah. I never did it again. Now I don't even do drugs.

Michael Riordan:

I'll drink once in a while. I don't smoke anymore. But it's just like sometimes, just unexpectedly, things will just come to you. And then another thing where you're getting at is the self development. I just by chance met somebody in the sauna at the gym, and he sold real estate, and he got my interest in real estate.

Michael Riordan:

I got my license, sold timeshare for years. I saw how much money that you can make doing sales. And then when COVID hit, that's when I got into wanting to do real estate. And at the time, I wasn't very responsible, you know, with my money. I made a lot of money, but I spent it on stupid shit.

Michael Riordan:

And, as you know, you knew my situation, and, you know, I came to you and asked for some help. And, you know, you gave me some advice and and help on how to get started. And I I can't thank you enough for for, you know, the help that you gave me, without getting into details on, like, everything. But

Steve Pugh:

No problem. Did they ever raid the house?

Michael Riordan:

Not that I know of.

Steve Pugh:

No? I was curious

Michael Riordan:

if Austin's right.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah. I don't know if she was lying or not, man. But Hey, who cares? It worked.

Steve Pugh:

That's it. That's all that matters. Yeah, for sure.

Michael Riordan:

Because they were doing an illegal tattoo shop in the garage. I was selling drugs. My roommate was selling drugs. My other roommate was doing drugs. So it was just the wrong house to be in.

Michael Riordan:

Was a trap house, basically, you know what that is. Yeah, I mean, it just really comes down to you, right? Because there's two ways you can go if

Michael Riordan:

you look at you and you look

Michael Riordan:

at your friend. Life is all about the choices that you make. Right? And if you continuously make the same choices, you're going to keep getting the same results. Yeah.

Michael Riordan:

If you want to live a different life, you have to do things differently. Now, what I want to touch on before we end the podcast, because we've got about maybe fifteen minutes here, the other side of real estate, right? So obviously, you're wildly successful as a real estate broker associate. You're successful on personal production and stuff like that. How would you say as far as investing is concerned?

Michael Riordan:

And be open and honest about this because that's why we're here. Right? As a broker associate, you have tons of people on your team. They're doing tons of transactions. Do you know the value of what doing investing deals can bring to your team and your brokerage?

Michael Riordan:

Have you explored it at all? Obviously, know you have because, you know, we work together sometimes on things. But, like, looking at it from the other side, what are some of the positives you see? What would be some of the maybe worries that you might have? And then what would be maybe the negatives that have stopped you from working on investment deals in the past?

Steve Pugh:

My own personal, Michael? Or just Yeah,

Michael Riordan:

just how do you see positives, worries, and negatives?

Steve Pugh:

Positives positives from a consumer perspective. I think having those options, sellers should have options. So being able to go into an appointment with options for sellers, I think is a huge value add both for for you as the agent and for the consumer. Worries, I don't know that I have any worries. The only worries that I would have is that the consumer make the right choice and not get derailed and forced into to making a decision and then netting less money or not being in such a favorable position, as what they could have been.

Steve Pugh:

And then you said worries, concerns?

Michael Riordan:

Worries and then maybe like a negative experience that you've had in the past.

Steve Pugh:

Negative would be the wholesalers. I think that not always, and I could be wrong. Yeah, I think for a novice investor, I think on a lot of wholesale deals, there isn't as much meat on the bone as what the wholesalers are saying, dependent on their spread, and a novice investor can end up holding the I don't know, holding the pen if you will. You know? Because they'll they'll pick it up thinking that those margins are there and all reality they're not.

Steve Pugh:

And by the time they get the property fixed up and back on the market, the wholesalers made their $10.20, $30.40 grand has moved on. So that would be my caution for investors to truly look at the numbers if you're entertaining a wholesale deal. Okay.

Michael Riordan:

Now, from a broker's associate perspective, here's the struggles that you come across as an investor. So let's just have that conversation. As an investor, there's really three types of agents that I found. And there could be different types to other people or whatever. What I found is you've got novice agents and closed minded agents.

Michael Riordan:

So the novice agents and the closed minded agents, a novice I guess they're both in the same, but they could be also experienced and closed minded. Usually when you come across those, they rather not admit that they don't know what you're talking about. So they'll immediately say, I don't work with investors. Investors are scammers. My client's not interested.

Michael Riordan:

You know, that's the three top three things that you hear.

Steve Pugh:

I could see that. Yeah.

Michael Riordan:

Now, you've also got the investor that they're not necessarily close minded. They're not new. They've done tons and tons of deals. Maybe they've even come across some investment deals, but they're not sure of them. And the thing I like about those people are they're easily educated, right?

Michael Riordan:

And those are the people that you're talking about, right? The people that are looking to grow, they want to keep expanding their business, expanding their mind and expanding their personal. So they're open. And then you've got the agents that or the brokers, brokers, associates, whoever it can be that they've had a bad experience. Right.

Michael Riordan:

And one of the big things that I like to point out about that is with the closed minded agents and the new agents, don't be that guy. Right? If you're an agent and you're listening to this, don't be that person because at the end of the day, you're losing the opportunity to actually help your clients. Right. And as an example, I've got this big broker.

Michael Riordan:

Right. And she has a 13 unit portfolio in St. Pete. I'm not going to name names or anything like that. I'm not here to bash people.

Michael Riordan:

But her client, they pulled out in 2018 a $4,000,000 commercial loan. They're currently in foreclosure. And I was talking with this agent. She sent me this portfolio, and I was asking her, can I get the P and Ls for this? Can I get pro formas?

Michael Riordan:

Do you have worksheets to be able to run the numbers and make sure it's a good deal? She kept saying, I don't have that. We can't give that to you yet until you put an offer. I'm like, Well, how can we put an offer if we don't know the numbers? She's like, Well, you don't need to know the numbers right now.

Michael Riordan:

I already told you how much it gets in rent. I was like, Yes, you gave me the current rents, and I haven't even verified those. So do you have documentation showing the current rents? Do you have documentation showing how you've grown the rents over the years? Do you have documentation showing the occupancy rates?

Michael Riordan:

Because she told me that they have 12 of the properties are occupied vacant, and that they've never had issues paying rent. Found that funny. And usually when someone won't give you information, they have something to hide. So I looked at the property, she sent me over the list of their properties. I looked at the properties, and I found out they were in foreclosure.

Michael Riordan:

They actually went in foreclosure in February 7. So now it's July. So that's about five months, right? Her client is in huge pain. He's about to lose a portfolio he's had since 2018.

Michael Riordan:

Not only that, it's going to completely ruin his credit. It's going to ruin his reputation. And most likely on a personal level, it's going to ruin him. You know, when you've got that much property, and that's not all the properties he has. He's got properties in other states and stuff too.

Michael Riordan:

So she says, right? By her being closed minded, I I basically told her like, you know, I got an offer on the property immediately. It was for $3,700,000. For owner finance. It wasn't going to work because they had all those mortgages, which I didn't know at the time, and I probably should have looked that up first.

Michael Riordan:

But from what she was telling me, I was kind of going with what she said. Now, once I looked up all the information, I messaged her back and she was like, I was like, Well, do you think that they'd be open to letting us take over the loans or whatever? She's like, I've got three hedge funds looking at this right now. And unless you put an offer, I'm not even going to take you seriously. And I was like, Ma'am.

Michael Riordan:

And she said, I deal honestly and with integrity. And I was like, Well, if you deal honestly and with integrity, you and I both know that hedge funds do not deal that way. And what happens if they make an offer on the property and what you're asking for is basically what you owe? What happens if they make an offer and then it's off market, you don't have anybody, you know, going for it, and then they pull that deal? Or they pull, Oh, well, we'll give you $2,500,000 because that's what hedge funds do.

Michael Riordan:

I know you know that all the time. They do it. So I told her, Listen, we can take over the payments for this mortgage and we can get him caught up. We can help him rebuild his credit so that way he can start his life over sooner. Right?

Michael Riordan:

Now whether she gets back to me or not, it's probably going to come down to the very last minute when they get the auction date for all these properties and everything else, and she has no other options. That's usually how it goes. But the reason I'm sharing this is I want people to understand that in situations like that, maybe if you just list the house seven days on the market, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a beautiful property. You can sell it normal, fine.

Michael Riordan:

You know, that's great. But if you've got a client where you know that they can use the help, that's where these strategies come into play and where they're so valuable. Now we can save someone for foreclosure, we can help their credit, and we can also help them individually so they don't have that stress of that foreclosure anymore. On the other side, you've got the people that just don't know and they want to be educated. Those are the great people, and I don't think I have to explain that much.

Michael Riordan:

But then there's the last category where someone had a bad experience. The only time as a real estate agent that you can have a bad experience with investing is if you don't know what you're doing. If you don't know what to look for, and if you don't know the right questions to ask. Because if your client gets screwed over or gets put in a bad situation, or if you yourself do, say that you're buying a property yourself, it's your lack of knowledge that caused that to happen. Yeah.

Michael Riordan:

Right. So as a broker's associate and someone with so much experience in real estate, how do you feel about what I just said and what I just covered? Like for any realtors or other brokers that hear this, what is your take on it?

Steve Pugh:

I mean, think at the end of the day, it comes just back to being open minded, right? And willing to listen to something that you don't necessarily understand, but may be the best remedy depending on the situation. So, yeah, that's what it comes back to. Maybe, you know, there's a lot of ego in real estate, Michael. Yeah.

Steve Pugh:

So, as we said before, so maybe it comes it comes back to being open minded and humbling yourself and on that call saying, hey, look, you know, I don't know anything about this. Let's talk about this a little bit more. You know? Or I know what ROI means, or I don't know what numbers my investor is supposed to furnish for you to look at, but you know what, let me know and I'll go ask them. That is it, right?

Steve Pugh:

Ego and open mindedness in a nutshell.

Michael Riordan:

100%, man.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah,

Michael Riordan:

for anyone listening, I am a realtor. So, if you think I am talking shit about realtors, I am a realtor myself and I am an investor. And I'm actually under Steve. So talking with him, we're just having open discussion here. But I want you to understand I have empathy, and I understand how you guys feel when you're approached.

Michael Riordan:

And kind of like to your point, Steve, how you were saying, there is a lot of novice investors, and there's a lot of people that don't know what they're doing. And that's why I say realtors to protect your client, you need to understand this because sub two is not illegal. Owner financing is not illegal. RAPs are not illegal. They're not unethical.

Michael Riordan:

They're actually taught in real estate schools. They're just not covered very much. They mention things in your curriculum, but it doesn't teach you those things. So in order to be the Steve Pughs or the Veronica Figueroa's or any other person that's in this industry where you're top of the game, you know, Steve, are you just doing, like, minimal shit? Or are you actually, like, you know, putting in the work and learning new things and learning things that other people aren't taking the time to learn?

Michael Riordan:

Of course. That's what I'm doing. I'm constantly learning. If you think you're done learning, you're done. Right?

Michael Riordan:

And I'm normally the first one in here and the last one to leave.

Michael Riordan:

And that's what it takes. You're the Kobe of real estate, man.

Michael Riordan:

So Michael Jordan of real estate.

Michael Riordan:

But, alright man, well, I guess our time is up here. So before we go, is there any messages that you want to leave for anybody listening to this, whether it's covering any of the personal stuff, real estate stuff, investing stuff, regular real estate, like

Michael Riordan:

what do you have

Michael Riordan:

to say?

Steve Pugh:

Mean the only only thing that I would probably leave is just you know in terms of a seller and a listing, I think sometimes we need to have those different hats on rather than just going to the appointment with one solution. Right? So dependent on the seller's situation, they need to find somebody who's well versed in sub twos, in wraps, in creative financing, because if the conventional list process is not beneficial to the client, it doesn't work for their situation, they have those options. So that's what I would tell everybody to do. Is plug in.

Steve Pugh:

If you don't want to take the time to learn about it and you want to focus on your real estate career and this isn't a plug for you, Michael. I think it's I think it's if it's not Michael, it needs to be somebody, right? Where you can have that person in your corner where you can say, well shoot, I just left this listing appointment, this guy doesn't have much time, a regular listing won't work, he's upside down or the numbers don't jive, Let me call Michael and see if he can do something.

Michael Riordan:

Mhmm.

Michael Riordan:

Oh, yeah. 100%. So and and I 100% agree with that, man. I mean, at the end of the day, like you said, if it's not me, you know, if not for yourself, it should always be for your clients. Right?

Steve Pugh:

Yeah. At

Michael Riordan:

the end of the day, you need to know this stuff. It's not that you you you could know it or you might benefit from it. This is a benefit to your clients. And just a real short description, somebody out, and this is someone I'll never forget, and I'll I never will. He was a veteran.

Michael Riordan:

They moved here from Texas. The daughter was being bullied in school. She was having a hard time being away from her friends back in Texas.

Michael Riordan:

She

Michael Riordan:

took her own life in their garage.

Steve Pugh:

Oh my gosh. Dang.

Michael Riordan:

Yeah. And the house was underwater. It was negative tens of thousands of dollars in equity. So, a realtor reached out to me, and she said, listen. I've got this house.

Michael Riordan:

You know, I really need to help this guy. He can't afford to pay agent commissions. He can't pay closing costs. He can't be nothing. He's negative tens of thousand dollars in debt.

Michael Riordan:

I was actually able to find him a buyer for the house. They took it over subject to. He didn't have to pay any closing costs. He didn't have to pay nothing. And the great thing about that was imagine losing your daughter and then on top of that, having to go through the pain of losing your house because of a foreclosure, because you can no longer afford to live in that house.

Michael Riordan:

Then on top of that, you also have the memories of

Michael Riordan:

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Michael Riordan:

So if anyone thinks that this doesn't help and it doesn't work, you can call him up. His name's Angelo. He told me I can give his number to anybody. I'm not gonna do it on here. I don't want people blowing him up.

Steve Pugh:

But Mhmm.

Michael Riordan:

You tell him that it's a scam and it doesn't work. You tell the thousands of people that this is helping every single day. If you guys got value out of this video, make sure to like, subscribe, share, comment. Do everything that to do with social media. Hit the notifications button, and until the next one.