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When life gets hard, does what we think we believe hold us up, or does it crumble under the weight of doubt? I'm your host, Dr. Lee Warren- I'm a brain surgeon, author, and a person who's seen some stuff and wondered where God is in all this mess. This is The Spiritual Brain Surgery podcast, where we'll take a hard look at what we believe, why we believe it, and the neuroscience behind how our minds and our brains can smash together with faith to help us become healthier, feel better, and be happier so we can find the hope to withstand anything life throws at us. You've got questions, and we're going to do the hard work to find the answers, but you can't change your life until you change your mind, and it's gonna take some spiritual-brain surgery to get it done. So let's get after it.
Well, my friend, we're back. It is Sunday afternoon on one of the windiest days I can remember, Tata.
Yeah, it was not that way earlier. It just came up, and it's been crazy.
We had a Cooper's hawk commit suicide on our window earlier today. That was weird.
Yeah, it did. He's still there, I think. Beautiful hawk just crashed into the
window and broke his neck.
It's always something out here on the river, isn't it? It is.
It's a place that it changes from moment to moment.
That's right out here at Moon River Ranch. And I'm sure wherever you are,
friend, there's beauty all around you.
And we're almost to Christmas, Ty. And I guess since we're sitting here on a
Sunday afternoon talking, it must be Tuesdays with Ty.
I think that's right. It must be.
All right. What are we going to talk about today? As I mentioned to you earlier,
I'm still in the beginning.
And one of the things that has occurred to me, and I don't know if it occurred
to me or I've just seen it, but I've been reading Exodus and we're seeing the character of God.
I think in Exodus chapter 4 is where we really begin to see.
We've already seen some of the things that God did, but Moses argued with him.
The book that was burning but was not consumed. Exodus chapter 4,
that's the signs for Moses.
And I guess when Moses finally said, pardon your servant, Lord,
please send someone else. I don't want to go.
No, he did not want to go back. But this was even after God had told him that I want you to go.
And all the people who wanted to kill you were already dead. That's right.
And I'm sure he was concerned about that because he had killed an Egyptian.
And he had gotten into Hoorah with his own people. They were fearful of him.
That's right. And I don't know.
I try to understand what it must be like.
Those people were subjected to 400 years of slavery.
Now, what did it look like? It became part of their DNA. I'm sorry?
It became part of their DNA after a generation or two. Absolutely, yeah.
That's all they knew. But then when God started talking to Moses,
though, I think they got it. But they soon forgot.
Ergo the golden calf. Yeah. And even Aaron forgot. He sure did.
Because we know that the golden calf was crafted.
It didn't just come out of the fire like that. That's right.
But what did Aaron tell Moses?
It just came out. It won't be bad. I just threw all this gold in the fire and
this calf jumped out. Yeah.
Like a little kid making excuses. That's right. But and then in other places.
So what got me was then the Lord's anger turned against Moses and he said,
what about your brother, the Levite?
I know he can speak well. That's right.
So God offered him a way out. That's right. But God was angry with him.
His anger burned against him. Because he made Moses for the moment,
and Moses was shirking from the responsibility.
That's right. He didn't want to go. Sounds like us, though, right?
Absolutely. And then another couple of places that we see what God was like is in Exodus 33.
When God told Moses to take these people and get out of here,
I want you to go somewhere else.
And God said, I will send an angel to help you get there.
But then he said, but I'm not going with you. Because if I go with you,
I'll probably kill all these people.
He's so tired of how they disobeyed. And God himself said, he told others that
they were stiff-necked. Yeah.
Now, I don't know what that says to you, but what it says to the people that
are hearing this, But being stiff-necked is very stubborn, independent,
to a fault, refusing any help. That's right.
And God did all of these things in their presence and with them and to them,
and yet they didn't get it all. That's right.
They were overwhelmed. I guess they were overwhelmed. That's the only thing that I can imagine.
But are we seeing that what God is about?
And even God told Moses to tell the Israelites, he said, tell the Israelites,
you are a stiff-necked people if I go with you, even for a moment, even for a moment.
I might destroy you. I might destroy you. Yeah.
I will decide what to do with you.
God hasn't decided yet. We're seeing that God, it's the same conclusion I reached
a long time ago, is that God says what He means and means what He says. That's right.
He said, have no other gods before me, and they did that immediately,
because when Moses was up on the mountain receiving the 10th Commandment,
they fell away immediately.
That's right. They said, this guy Moses has been gone for 40 days,
and we don't know what happened to him. Make us a god.
And the God that will lead us. Yeah. And that's what they said to Aaron. Yeah.
And then when God said that he was not going to go with them anymore,
he told them himself through Moses, I will not.
But then right in the next, almost seeming like the next event is when Moses
finally said to God, show me what you look like. Yeah. I want to see you.
And God told him, so you can see me, but you can't see my face.
That's right. Because you cannot see my face and live. And so what did God say?
In Exodus 34, beginning in verse 6, he passed in front of Moses.
And then he was proclaiming while he passed in front of Moses. That's right.
The Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger,
abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands,
and forgiving wickedness.
Rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished.
He punished the children and their children for the sin of their parents to
the third and fourth generations.
So in my humble opinion, he is what he says he is, that he is forgiving.
And we would not have an opportunity or we wouldn't have a chance if he did not. That's right.
But what I said earlier was that are we seeing what he's really as we go through
these pages and in some sense of the word i think he that we are seeing that
but then again i'm thinking that what he's letting us see.
Parts of themselves. That's right. The thing I think is he tells us who he is,
gentle and slow to anger, abounding in love.
He gives us a contrast of a thousand generations of blessing versus three or
four generations of trouble.
And we know now even he wasn't saying, I'm going to punish your great-grandkids
if you should say. No, no, I read that because I wanted to start that conversation with you.
What we know is the way our bodies work, The way our psychology works is the
things that our parents do and the things that our family's influences with
tend to stick for generations.
I think it's more of a warning than a curse. It's not God saying,
I'm going to hurt your grandbabies if you don't behave.
No. He's saying, you need to be careful how you live. That's right.
There are consequences in the choices that you make and the decisions that you
carry out. And the beautiful thing about that is those generational issues can
be, we know now, even down to our DNA, can be changed by changing how we think. That's right.
And reverse them. And that's why we had the conversation about the fathers have eaten sour grapes.
Children's teeth are sat on edge. God made it clear. Everybody's responsible
for their own sin. That's right. Nobody dies for their dad's sin.
And that's key right there.
Even Moses himself, because God, see, the record even tells us that I'd talk
to him like a friend, face to face. Amazing.
So they had some kind of, I don't know if they had a mutual admiration society.
I don't know if they were in love with each other, but I know that there was mutual respect there.
And I know that, I believe that Moses got it, that he was talking to God Almighty.
And that when he witnessed the bush, it was burning.
And it was the Lord talking to him to begin with. And we know that's Jesus, the angel of the Lord.
So Moses had an encounter with all of the Godhead because God chose him to lead
those people that God made a covenant with Abraham.
That's right. Out of Egyptian bondage.
Now, all kinds of questions remain. Why did he leave them in slavery for 400 years? I don't know.
They put themselves there. That's right. He had a plan to deliver them,
and they put themselves there with their behavior and their wickedness, as he said.
God demonstrated all kinds of signs to them, and he does to us as well.
And what you have here in the beginning,
in Genesis and Exodus, is God's interaction with the people that He has selected
to be His covenant children. That's right. Now,
And all of that was according to his plan. And we know that plan extended to
Jesus Christ. That's right.
And through Jesus Christ, he came through all of that.
But I continue to marvel that God is just like us.
We have some of the same characteristics. But why should we marvel at that?
Because God created us. In his image. In his image. That's right.
Now, why then would we decide to live as we choose to live, as opposed to what he said?
Because the old enemy, the battle is always, we think something will make us
happy or satisfy us. That's right.
Besides him. And he says, nothing will.
That's right. Living water is what you need, the bread of life.
That's right. And that's why we have Jesus Christ. That's right.
Because there was no other way.
The blood of animals, the sacrifices that were made by the priest,
that's not what he wanted. That's right.
That's what he said. I don't delight in sacrifices. But he wanted us to want
to be with him. That's right.
We didn't want robots, mindless obedience. He gave us free will.
He wants us to choose to be with him and love him. That's why I think it's a
great thing that he did for us here to show us that he's an emotional God,
that it's okay to say what you feel.
That's right. But what he doesn't do is break his promises or break his covenant
or lash out and destroy them, all of them, because he promised Abraham,
even though he said that there would always be a remnant who were faithful. That's right.
He would always persevere with the blessing. That's right.
And so as we began, that's why, and I'm struggling with understanding this totally,
but I think we're beginning to see the character of God. Yeah.
And please know this, And I'm not suggesting this is the only way to do it,
but when I read Scripture, I read it like I've never read it before.
And I began by telling God himself, speak to me, please.
Help me understand. I want to know what he's saying.
That's good. So, and this is not like reading a novel. No.
This is God's Word.
That's right. And we should lean on that, and we should look to that.
And like I said, I'm struggling with it to a certain degree,
because having coming to grips with it and understanding this side of eternity,
I know, I believe that we will not have a full understanding of God.
In fact, Paul told us that we know in part and prophesy in part,
then we will see fully, see clearly. That's right.
God delivers knowledge and wisdom and insight to us at the times in which we need it.
That's correct. The steps for the day and the steps for the moment.
And that's why I ask myself, have I come to a point where this is what I need to see?
I don't know. I think that's what you said a while ago about how you pray before
you start the Bible study again. Friend, this is a good lesson.
I've been doing, Lisa and I have been doing a Tara Lee Cobble's Bible recap
this year. And every day, the prayer at the start of the reading is five points.
God, give me wisdom, knowledge, and understanding.
Let any knowledge I gain help me love you and others more and not puff me up.
Help me see something new about you that I've never seen before. That's right.
Correct any lies that I believe about you or anything that I misunderstand and
direct my steps according to your word.
Those are five really good kind of prayers to pray going into Bible study.
So sometimes we learn something and it can turn into arrogance because we know
something you don't know, or I know something that my dad didn't know,
or knowledge puffs up, as Paul said, but love builds up.
And so we want to make sure that we don't learn things for the purpose of being
better than somebody else or beating somebody else up with our theology.
Like I said, all I want to know is I want to know what he has to say. That's right.
I think it's really beautiful. I interrupted myself a while ago when I was saying
God reveals to us that he is an emotional God, that he does feel things deeply.
And he says it to Moses.
I better not go with you. I might blow you guys all up. But he always does what's
right. That's right. And he never contradicts himself.
He never changes his mind. He never sins.
But he shows us that it's okay to feel.
And it's okay to be hurt. And it's okay to be wounded.
But he still does the right thing. That's right. But think about how he must
have felt when Moses came down and they were worshiping the golden calf and
they were having a party.
Yeah. And he destroyed the Ten Commandments. He threw the tablets of stone down and they broke. Yeah.
It's frustrating to him. He's stiff-necked people, he says. Yeah.
He won't do the right thing.
And we're the same way, honestly. We're dealing with the same things.
We talked one time, a couple of times on the show, you and I,
about how the people kept wanting to go back to Egypt. Yeah.
They had it easy there, which is crazy because they didn't have it easy. No, they did not.
But in their mind, they had food, they had housing, they knew what their day was going to look like.
And after a while, the fear of something new was scarier to them than this,
what I call the failure of staying put.
That's evidence of that when Joshua sent the spies into the land of Canaan.
That's right. Only two came back and told the truth.
That's right. The rest of them were terrified. That's right.
So it's almost, you know, Moses lived in the 1500 BC's era, and Jeremiah lived in the 600s.
So we're talking about 900 years later.
Yeah. The whole book of Jeremiah is about this problem of the people wanting
to go back to Egypt and putting their trust in chariots.
Of course, Egypt never got out of them.
This idea that somebody could take care of them besides God.
And so listen, for us, it's hard for us to put our trust in. That's correct.
Just like we watched this movie this afternoon about the miracle on 34th Street.
Yeah. And the dollar bill, it has it on it today.
In God we trust. In God we trust. Okay.
Do we just give lip service to that? Or do we mean that?
Now, what does it look like when we trust God? Apparently, these people were
having some difficulty.
They said, yes, we'll do it. Yeah. Everything they would do.
And out of one side of their mouth, they said, no, we don't want to go back
there. but then they were saying, we want to go back there. That's right.
So they couldn't figure out. They were looking for something that was familiar.
That's right. Something that felt that was like putting on an old pair of shoes
or an old shirt. That's right. It feels comfortable.
That's right. And the question is, how do we believe?
How can we really believe that God is and that God is what he says he is?
It's funny how we all think, I think most of us think that if we had been there and seen the cloud of,
you know, the burning pillar at night and the cloud of fire and all those things,
how he led them around, we would believe.
If we saw Jesus walk on the water, resurrect the dead, we'd believe.
If we saw all those miracles turn water into wine, that we would believe.
And he said, no, you wouldn't.
Signs and wonders aren't going to make any more. No, after a while,
they don't mean anything to you. It comes down, at the end of the day,
it comes down to where do you place your trust? That's right.
Do you trust in silver and gold, chariots and horses, your own strength, other people?
Do you trust in God and God's Word? That's powerful.
So at the end of the day, that's all we have to rely on, is what God said.
In our moments of our greatest weakness, or in those scary times that we have,
who are we going to look to?
That's right. don't have a choice.
And I know and I understand that it's very difficult for some people that may
be listening to this right now.
They said, you guys don't really get it and we don't get it either.
But I'm going to ask you, and I've said it before, what if it is true?
What are you going to do then? I don't want to see him with any doubts and fears in my heart.
I want to be rescued by him. That's right. And if it means I want to be rescued
from myself, if I'm being led by Satan, then I need to be rescued by from myself. That's right.
If you're giving into the, did God really say that? Yeah.
And that's what we hear. Honestly, friends, if you pay attention to what you
hear in your mind and in your heart when you're being tempted or when you're
doubting, it's usually, did God really say that? That's right.
Satan asks you a question. That's the question from the garden. It's always the same.
Is he real? Does he mean what he says? Will he keep his word?
Will he be there when you're hurting? Why does he want to take that from you?
Why doesn't he want you to have that opportunity? Why did he allow this thing to happen?
And God says, I won't come and rescue you out of your troubles.
There's a plan in place. There's a rescue underway. But I'll come and join you in them.
I'll be on the ground with you. Right. I'll be there with you. That's right.
But I'm not going to take you by the hand and lead you to the well.
That's right. We know now the way he wired our bodies and our nervous system,
like we're actually designed to be bettered by struggle.
We get weaker when we don't struggle. That's right.
And so the press, the place we need to press into is the struggle because that's
where we're going to find the growth.
That's where we're going to find the Lord. He's going to be there.
Viktor Frankl said, if you want to give off light, you've got to be burning.
Yeah, that's right. That's correct.
Forgot about that quote. If you want to give off light, you've got to be on fire.
And we don't like that. We don't want to be in the furnace. No,
we don't. No, we want it easy.
And I don't know. As I look back, the prophet said three score and 10, that's 70 years.
And then someone else said, if you live to 80, your days will be full of woe.
Yeah. I've been living on premium time for a long time. Yeah,
Ecclesiastes. That's right.
I think that at the end of the day, the question is, Moses walked on the holy
ground at the burning book, and he had to decide if he believed.
And then Moses led the people out after having struggled with,
do I really believe? God's going to empower me.
Can I rise above my own fears to believe that he is what he says he is,
and he'll deliver me, and he'll give me the words, and he'll empower me to take
out the people, take the people out.
The story of the Old Testament really over and over is God extending himself
and people letting God down. and God forgiving them and trying again and working out.
And so here we are in 2024, and the question remains for us,
do we believe that God is who he says he is, that he's gentle and lowly?
Or do we believe the cultural lie that either God doesn't exist or that he is
judgmental and hates us and doesn't want us to have any fun or isn't there for us or all those things?
And so the question for us then, friend, is are you going to decide I'd...
To make a choice in your mind, which will lead to structural changes in your
brain, in your body, in your life, in your generations.
You're going to believe that God is who he says he is, that God will do what he says he does.
That's the definition of hope. If faith is the belief that God can do what he
says he can do, then hope would be the belief that he will do that for you. That's right.
And so then, where do we stand here as we come to his birth,
as we come to Christmas? Christmas, the day that we celebrate Christ coming into the story.
Of course, we know from the Old Testament he was already in the story.
That's right. But him coming in the flesh. So where do we stand? Do we believe it?
Because I think a great Christmas gift you could give yourself,
friend, would be to really decide that you trust him. That's right.
Because you're going to face some things. There's some trauma and tragedy.
We're sitting here at this table with two men who have lost children,
Tata twice and me once, and he's lost his wife.
And we've both been through very hard things.
And I've seen trauma, battle, and all the things people can do to each other.
And there comes a time when you've got to decide if what you say you believe
will hold you up or not. That's right. You have to make that decision.
And that's why we've said before so many times, it's a choice.
It's a choice. We have to make that choice.
We have to decide that we really believe it and that we're going to do it,
that we're going to honor God's Word and the commandments are.
They're so simple to begin with love God with all your heart soul minded being
and love your neighbor as yourself.
Which implies you're supposed to love yourself by the way friend,
I think that the thing is, we come to this place,
we're thinking about giving yourself this gift for Christmas,
for example, of what are you going to do that's going to move the needle on
your own ability to live a life that has some power and some juice to it?
So that even when you encounter hard things at the bottom, doesn't drop out
of your life, that you can find your feet again.
What are you going to do to establish that type of resilience in your heart?
And God says plainly, taste and see, but the Lord is good.
That's right. And he says in Jeremiah, I've got plans for you,
a plan to prosper you, not to harm me. This is 29, Jeremiah 29.
Plan to give you hope and a future. He said, then you will seek me,
you'll find me when you seek me with all your heart. That's right.
So if you want to know the plans that God has for you, you're not going to find
that if you just approach him and back away when it gets hard.
You're not going to find him if the circumstances of your life throw you off
and you never come back or you blame him for them.
You'll find him when you press in and you say, God, you said in Psalm 34,
18, you're close to the brokenhearted. I'm brokenhearted.
I need you to be close right now. He will.
The two of us are going to testify. He will be close to you when you're brokenhearted.
And he is gentle and lowly. And he is an emotional God.
And that's why it hurts so much and you feel so much because you're made in his image.
That's right. And you have a big heart. And, you know, he said feel,
but you have to learn feelings aren't facts.
They're chemical events in your brain. So there's times when you have to question
what you feel more than you question what the healer says. I'm going to help
you through this. Right.
So thank you, Tata, for showing us who he is or reminding us that he's gentle and lowly.
I would recommend, by the way, that book, Dane Ortlund's book, Gentle and Lowly.
Beautiful book about God's character, who God really is. and this cultural notion
that God is a big killjoy or is out there ready to punish you or smite you all
the time. That's not what he says he is.
Moses said, who are you? He said, I am gentle and lowly.
Easy to see. And then Moses said, what's your name? And God said, I am. I am.
I am what I am. That's right. Popeye says the same thing. Of course,
the question follows, what am you? What am you?
I think it's beautiful. Merry Christmas time. Merry Christmas to you.
I'm excited about what's coming next for us and this podcast and all the listeners out there.
We know that this may have been a hard year for some of you and we're praying for you.
We'd love to hear from you. You can always reach out, contact at drleewarren.com
and let us know what's going on. The prayer wall, by the way, is down.
It was hacked and we had some weird stuff get on there that I couldn't control.
And so we decided I had to take it down as the exposure has grown.
So have the, unfortunately, strange people who do strange things.
And they have to think those things up.
They have to apply some mental energy to arrive at that. But we're still praying for you.
And you can reach us and tell us what to pray for at contact at drleewarren.com.
Or you can leave us a voicemail.
We listen to them. We pray over them. Sometimes we'll put them on the podcast.
Speakpipe.com slash drleewarren. Speakpipe.com slash drleewarren.
We pray that you and your family have a blessed and safe holiday season,
Christmas season, and an incredible new year.
We'll be back with more. And Tata is always in the words, studying and thinking
about you and praying for you. and bringing this good news to you.
Thank you, Todd. I love doing this with you. I'm grateful for you.
Thank you. I'm grateful for you.
And I would say, as we're getting ready to have Christmas here,
if people wanted to really know what the gift of knowing God was like,
when would be a good time to start? Today. Start today.