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Episode 508: In this episode, we discuss the biblical story of Saul and David. We explore Saul's jealousy and mental torment after David's rise to fame following his victory over Goliath. We delve into the complexities of Saul's character, his disobedience to God, and the resulting consequences, including the tormenting spirit sent by God. We also touch on leadership lessons from Saul's story, emphasizing the importance of not letting jealousy and insecurity cloud judgment. We highlight how Saul's inability to celebrate David's success ultimately led to his downfall.
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You're listening to the Bible guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in practical ways. Well, hey, everybody, welcome to the Bible Guys. We appreciate you tuning in and sharing with friends, spreading the word because hey, hopefully somebody else might like the Bible. Guys, absolutely so like us. Leave a comment. Yeah, yeah, share with your friends and family. Just get the word out people. Yeah, there's these guys. Yeah, they're just a couple of friends who talk about the Bible and fun and practical ways. I know. And who doesn't want conversation about the Bible and fun and practical ways. People who hate the Bible. Oh yeah, that's right, haters. By the way, I want to say this, by the way, I was just looking at some on some stuff, some of the back end of the YouTube and stuff. Yeah, here's what I found out. Forty two percent of our regular listeners, yes, have not subscribed. Is that true? You know who you are? Is that true? That's true? Wow? Yeah, so so so. It's interesting when we talk about subscribing, all of a sudden, subscriptions go way up and that then that percentage goes down, but it done to me. There's been a long time we haven't said, hey, you should subscribe. Click the subscribe Gutton. What does subscribe mean? It just means they click that thing, and what happens now is that we will show up in their feed more often when they're on YouTube. That's so subscribe is a video, But what if it's just audio? What I forty? Yeah, so like on Spotify or one of those things. If you subscribe, it's the same thing. What we'll do is it'll put into your feed. Oh yeah, okay, so that's all. But what it does is it helps us with the algorithms. The more subscribers we have, the more we get put into other people's feeds. So people that fit your profile, you know, they're profiling you. You know that people. Yeah, yeah, there's nothing free in the world, so if they give you a free video platform to watch, they're mining your information, right, that's what happens. So they're paying attention to the kinds of things you like. And then there's people who fit your profile and they go, oh, well, if you like these things and they like all the other things you like, they'll probably like the Bible guys too, right, And it doesn't have to be somebody that you know, but it's just somebody who fits your profile. And so if you subscribe then and enough, if you do it, then it'll start putting us in other people's feeds for them to see us too. That it just helps promote it when you're describing those things. So well, hey, that's so, do it because you know who you are. Yes, we're gonna jump into a segment called one must go. Oh these are fun ones and desert and neither of us have read any. Of these, Jeff or Chris. And by the way, this one must go. Oh, one must go. This means forever, right, It doesn't mean for us, It means for eternity, for the whole world. Okay, so we're those are the parameters. It means for everybody. Okay, okay, So one must go either email spam or telemarketing calls. O oh, telemarketing calls. Because email spam could be doing dealt with easier. Yes, I think so, I mean client to agree, although I have a hesitation because you made a good living as a telemarketers a telemarketer, but that's that's then, and this is now right. I was a telemarketer for a little while. Were you really? I had three? No, I had one, hang on, I had one two three jobs? Three? Yeah, I think it's only three. That I made a very good living, and it was all telemarketing. Oh well yeah, and then I only did it for like a year when I was in college. Yeah, I did find center two years. Yeah, okay, actually no more than that. More than that, okay, so we get rid of telemarketing. All right, what did you sell? I sold Accidental Life in dismemberment. Well, I sold them a long distance that I called people and talked them into putting programs on their Discover card Private Issues and then and their vps and cards. And then I also called home to home placing salesmen for tech Madic adjustment beds. That's right, that's right. I knew that one too. Yeah, I knew m C I and okay, so anyways, there you go here here one must go cozy knights in with a good book or adventurous outings with friends. That's those are two things you Oh yeah, yeah, that's really tough. No, it's not tough for me. Though, Okay, white one's yours. Well, I mean, don't get me wrong. Cozy knights in with a good book are great nights, but adventurous outings with friends, says the extrovert. Right, what am I going to choose? I'm gonna get rid of the introverted option and I'm going to choose the extroverted option. Yeah, but your cozy knights in are with movies. Most of the time. I would much rather watch a movie than read. Anything. No, that's not truly. You know what I you know what I read. I only read leadership books for the purpose of, you know, knowledge and growth in my profession. And that's not true. That's not true. I'll read things that helped me grow and develop my faith in my character as well. But what I will not read is I will not read stories fiction fiction. I just won't read fiction. I just won't do it. I don't have the time. Well, that's not true. I won't make the time. Yeah, okay, I uh, I don't know. I know, I don't know that I can answer this. You have to pick one. I'm going to abstain. One must go, it must go. One must go. Okay, adventurous outings with friends? Yeah, wow, I did, because I can adventure outings without friends. It's true. I'll do this myself. That's right, all right. I'm surprised you chose that, but yeah, I guess that's probably true. Okay, I mean I have tons of adventurous outings, right right, all right, here we go, I says to be careful that this not with. One must go the thrill of a spontaneous adventure or the joy of a meticulously planned event. Both of those are great. I mean, think about the benefits of both of those. Those are just great. Which one's yours? But one has to go on? That's rough. I'm gonna say the joy of a meticulously planned event? Me too? Yeah, me too. And Chad just died and says, did our executive pastor? He just died a little bit. He just died inside. Okay, how about this one? One must go getting to see the hottest show on Broadway Live or going to your favorite sports team game. Well, I mean, this is gonna say a lot about me here, right. Uh huh, it is. It's gonna say a lot about this. We're gonna say it right here. Going just getting to see the hottest show on Broadway Live or going to your forts favorite sports team event game. Okay, here's here's I'm gonna pick getting rid of the sports team. But let me tell you why, because you can watch on TV, because I can watch on TV. That's right, I knew that one. But see, there's a massive difference between seeing Broadway live or Broadway on TV. So I've seen Hamilton on Disney no less than I'm not kidding forty times. Wow. Okay, Wow, that might be forty times too many. Yeah. So then, but then I've seen Hamilton in person twice, okay, And the difference between seeing Hamilton twice and those forty times are night and day. Wow. But for me, I remember taking my kids to the Lions games, right, and I dropped like a grand And this was like twenty years ago. I dropped a grant just for the three of us, right, And the entire time I couldn't see the instant replace we were up way too high. I had to squint and see. We missed things. It smelled like beer. Everybody kept on getting up and interrupting us. And when I was leaving, it took me an hour to get out of the parking lot because we parked on the top deck and it was miserable. Okay, And I thought to myself, I could be in the living room. Right now, you got it right there, right, You win me over? So is that what you're gonna choose? Yeah? Probably because I'm not a big live sports guy. I'd rather watch it on TV. Okay, And I agree with you. The Broadway is way better in person. Okay. Now, I only go to like one Broadway show every other year. Yeah, I'm going to six this year. Yeah that's what I thought. Yeah, okay, so here you go. The last one. The comfort of a favorite old movie or the excitement of seeing a new film on opening night. That is torture. It's a torture's question for me, Jeff, is it? But I'm gonna have to say, if one has to go, it would have to be the comfort of a favorite old. Movie because you need to see a new one. Well, there's nothing like a movie that I want to see an opening night in the theater. And I'm wondering if I'm wondering when theaters are going to go away forever? You know, you know, COVID's change. Everything in the theaters are getting better and better stream yeah, really good. Yeah, and sometimes you know it's almost now it's almost more common to see great movies. In fact, I think it is more common to see great movies that are being released on like Apple TV than it is to see the great movies released on theaters in theaters, So I actually think it's more common. So I'm wondering if theater is going to go away. But you know that there's that thing where it's like, you know, the first when you when you take a poll and say what's what's the first best date? People still say movie and dinner? Right, So I just I wonder if it's ever going to go away completely. But I have to believe that it that it will eventually. I don't know. I'm pretty ambivalent on this one. So whichever one, what did you pick? I picked the favoritable movie going away? Okay, I'll pick I'll pick that one being the one that tastes Then it doesn't matter. I'm gonna be our adversarially adversarial. Oh yeah, that's so funny. Okay, well, hey, that was nine minutes, so you're never getting back people, so. There at all fairness. We took two and a half minutes to promote the Bible game. We did. We did, so we're gonna look at Saul this. Remember Saul had had some mental health issues, some struggles, particularly with regard to the evil spirit coming on him. David would come and play beautiful music, it would call his spirit. Then David becomes super famous because he kills Goliath. Yes, and these two issues become a thing with Saul. So it says after David had finished talking with Saul, he met Jonathan, the King's son. There was an immediate bond between them. For David, Jonathan loved David from that day on. Saul kept David with him and wouldn't let him return home, and Jonathan made a solemn pack with David because he loved him as he loved himself. And Jonathan sealed the pack by taking off his robe and giving it to David, together with his tunic, sword, bow, and belt. Whatever Saul asked David to do, David did it successfully, So Saul made him a commander over the men of war, an appointment that was welcomed by the people and Saul's officers alike. When the victorious Israelite army was returning home after David had killed the Philistine, women from all the towns of Israel came out to meet King Saul. They sang and danced for joy with tambourines and cymbals, and this was their song. Saul has killed his thousands and David his ten thousands. This made Saul very angry. What's this? He said, the they credit David with ten thousands and me with only thousands. Next they'll be making him their king. So from that time on Saul kept a jealous eye on David. The very next day, a tormenting spirit from God overwhelmed Saul, and he began to rave in his house like a madman. David was playing the harp, as he did each day, but Saul had a spear in his hand, and he suddenly hurled at it David, intending to pin him to the wall, but David escaped him twice. Saul was then afraid of David, for the Lord was with David and turned away from Saul. Finally, Saul sent him away and appointed him commander over a thousand men, and David faithfully led his troops into battle. David continued to succeed and everything he did, for the Lord is with him. When Saul recognized this, he became even more afraid of him. But all Israel and Judah loved David because he was so successful at leading his troops into battle. Yeah, so David's popularity is on the rise. He could do no wrong. But most importantly, the Lord was with him, right, And Saul basically knew that, you know, David's a threat. And Saul also felt, like, you know, probably in his heart that not only were people crediting David for tens of thousands, but Saul probably also knew, this man's probably going to make a better king than me, right, because he sees David's love, he sees, you know, for the Lord, he sees David's faith, and there's a deep seated jealousy that Saul has. But you know what stands out to me mostly in this chapter, from that whole thing, is that the tormenting spirit that took over Saul came from God. And it reminds me of Pharaoh and Moses, doesn't it. Remember how remember how it was God who hardened Pharaoh's heart and and and all of a sudden, you know, the story continued with complexity because it seemed like God was the one that added the complexity to to Pharaoh's heart. And this in this case, it seems like God's the one that adds the complexity to their relationship by giving Saul a tormenting spirit. But I start to look at that at a different through a different lens, which is, uh, this is part of God's judgment on Saul, because you know, God knew that Saul was a man who didn't necessarily love him with his whole heart. God predicted remember through Samuel that uh, you know, he tell the people this is what's gonna happ and if they choose a king, and especially this king, right, but they wanted Saul because he was head and shoulders above everybody else. So you know, this tormenting spirit that comes from God, I look at it as you know, this is a judgment on Saul, for you know, here he is, you know, not following the Lord. I think I missed the lead up to this. Did you guys when I was gone, did you guys talk about Saul and why God removed his hand from Saul's blessing? Oh you're talking about you were gone? Yeah? I was gone? Yeah, Yeah, so Wesley and I Yes, Yeah, you guys talked about that. Yeah. I think so it's reference said. So he kept bringing back instead of wiping out the villages and all those things, he kept bringing back. You know, Oh, we're gonna we're going to sacrifice these sheep. We're going to sacrifice these things. And Samuel finally came and said, hey, God's done with you, right because he kept disobeying God. No, we did not cover that. No, so yeah, I think it's really important we cover this, that God's not just being an arbitrary like I quit liking this guy. God had told Saul, through Samuel, you have to obey everything I say. The only way that you're going to be successful as a king is if you choose to do it exactly what I tell you. And so he God had sent him in go wipe out the Amalekites or whatever and just obliterate them, and they're evil and I'm using you to bring judgment. But instead what he did is he brought back a bunch of their treasures, and he brought back a bunch of their animals. And Samuel's like, hey, you can't do that, and he keeps doing it, and he keeps saying, oh, my intent was good, right. What I intended to do was I was going to bring these animals back. I brought back the king so I could kind of show the people. But we're going to execute the king anyways, but I just wanted to bring the king back as a trophy. He's bringing back trophies, is what he's doing. And God had said, don't bring any truth. This isn't about you, right, this isn't about the people of Israel. This is about me bringing judgment on these wicked people. And you're the tool I'm using, and said, he keeps bringing trophies back, and then he brings back all these animals and Samuel goes, what in the world are you doing? And he says, oh, I brought him back to sacrifice. And Samuel says, don't you know that obedience is better than sacrifice. Yeah, no, we didn't cover any right, that's what he says. And he said, listen, God's going to take his hand off you. Your family will not be king no more. There is no more. You're the end of the family for you. There'll be no more. God's going to put his blessing on somebody else. And that's when God chose David as a young man to be the king. And the Bible says in for Samuel sixteen verse fourteen. After that, right after that point, God had put blessing on David. And then it says, now the spirit of the Lord had left Saul, right, so God had put his spirit on him as a leader. But then he kept disobeying, He kept having partial obedience, he kept having a good reason why he couldn't obey God. How often have your people say, oh, well, you know, I know we should be living together, but you know, the economy is really really hard right now, right, God's gonna understand. No, God doesn't understand. That's the story of Saul. God will not understand why you have partial obedience. And so God goes, nope, and he took his hand off of Saul. The spirit left Saul, the Bible says, and it says, and the Lord sent a tormenting spirit that filled him with depression and fear. So this tormenting spirit that he has here is this fear, this depression that comes from the fact that he had walked away from God completely. And so remember when we read in Psalm chapter one, it says that God oversees and looks over the path of the righteous, but the path of the wicked goes to destruction. And so this is not like God just being a mean God. Well, God just took his blessing off of Saul. And when that happens, then what's left is this depression and fear that just begins to consume him. And so it's really weird because the best tool Saul has in his entire aart arsenal, is David, right, and so he elevates him, Hey, I want you to be a commander, and then he hates him. He throws a spear at him, and then he elevates him, Hey, go out and fight this battle. And then he gets mad and he throws the spear. He's just all over the place, and it's because he doesn't have God guiding and protecting his life anymore. Yeah. Yeah, so we covered We definitely mentioned that Saul disobeyed God and that Samuel had said that, you know, his favorite wasn't on us, King Saul, But we did not talk about that story because that's one of the best verses in the Bible. Obedience is better than sacrifice. You know, the idea that he would come back and say, oh, I did these things so that I could sacrifice to the Lord. It's this idea that we justify in the name of ministry. So many different things, you know, or good intent good intent. Yeah right, it's just good. God knows my heart. Right. It's so funny when we try to justify our sinful behavior, going oh, God understands why we need to do this. But what we miss out on is God's descriptions of sin. Bible talks about how like a pig goes back to the slop, right, that's how God views sin. A dog goes back to his vomit. There's never a time that God would watch you eating your own vomit and go, yeah, I understand why you need to do that. Right. There's never a time God to look at you wallowing around in a pig pen and go, yeah, I get it, I understand why you need to do that. Right. We view sin as something that's necessary, something that we want, something that brings us pleasure. And God sees it as the vomit of a dog, as the filth and putrescence of a pig pen. That's what he sees. And there's never time God goes, oh, now, I understand why you needed to do that. It's horrific. It's night marriage to him. And the more we spend our time in God's word, the more we begin to see sin the way he sees it. And the more we begin to delight in things the way he delights, right, and the good things. So anyways, God takes his blessing off of Saul, and Saul now is struggling in this and alls he has is you can imagine the pressures of being a leader without having the peace of God in your life. Yeah, right, especially in that world everybody's trying to assassinate you, everybody's trying to take advantage of you. It'd be a very fearful, scary thing. And this is what it keeps getting consumed by fear. So have you ever gone to a leadership conference some sort of shifting gears on this thought? Have you ever gone a leadership conference where they used this passage? Saul is killed in these thousands and David in this tens of thousands, And it's a leadership principle. How you should be okay with hiring people who are better than you, right, hiring people who are you know, more competent than you, not being afraid you know of you know, your ego, your pride, your jealousy, all those different things. And think about everything that we can learn from the fact that Saul thinks that especially in ministry because you know, we have the profession of you know, professional Christians. Right, So Saul still thinks that the credit goes to the human right. And yet David most likely doesn't think that at all. You know, he's thinking, what do you mean, I'm taking credit for tens of thousands? The lord gets the credit for tens of thousands. Well, to this point, he'd killed a Philistine. Well, they're on the way home from that victory. That's what it says. I thought it was. It was Saul's armies promoted over commanders. Yeah, he did, but he hadn't fought any words. Yet, they're returning home from the victory. It literally says verse six, when the victorious Israelight army was returning home after David had killed the Philistine, women from all the towns Israel came out to meet him. So it says here that the armies of Israel went and killed all of the rest of the Philistines, but David killed. David killed, Goliath still had his head in his hand, and Abner took David to Saul. So what are you saying. You're saying the women saying the wrong things. No, I'm saying that this Wasdavid's moment in the spotlight, and they were saying things that aren't true. Huh right, it's because you think about it. The story was David kills Goliath. Abner goes and gets him while he's still holding the head in his hand and takes him to Saul, and the armies of Israel go and chase down the Philistines and kill him. Yeah, I guess. So David didn't kill thousands. David killed tens of thousands. David killed one. And so sometimes your fan base has an over inflated idea of who you are and what you've accomplished. Saul is the one that has led the people of Israel to kill the army's visual to defeat tens of thousands. Yeah, I guess. I guess. I never distinguished the literal like the chronological moment here, because it says in verse five that so Saul made him a commander over the men of war and appointed an appointment that was welcomed by the people and the saw's officers alike, and then. These are all literally within minutes. And then it says or fourteen, David continued to succeed in everything he did for the lord was with him, and. So it talks about that that's after the songs though, correct, yea. Correct, And so because it's all intertwined in the same chapter, I never perceived that the things that the women were singing weren't actually the case. The only thing he did, right, So sometimes the fans say things that aren't entirely true, and Saul just refused to allow David to have his moment. If Saul was confident, Saul could look back at his achievements and go, David, they're always like this, right, because they say they used to sing songs about. Sal because people are people. Yeah, they used to sing songs about Saul. Right, Hey, you're our hero. And if he was a confident leader, he could let David have his moment because it wasn't entirely true, but it was how the people were feeling in the moment. Oh, David's a hero, yeah, right. But Saul was the one who was wise enough to elevate David to be the commander. Saul was going to benefit for all those things because he had elevated David up to be you know, he already had Abner, who was a great soldier in general, and now he's got this young guy, right, so he's got the skilled guy, he's got this hero among the people, he's got all this momentum behind him. If he could have just seen from an organizational standpoint, things are humming along, he could have given David all the glory that was coming to David in that moment. But the reality is he killed one giant. That's all he did, right, And and the women are. Cheering, Oh oh, wait a minute, I think I get it now. It's because the tens of thousands of Philistines died as a result of glass falling. That's probably what happened. Yeah, but it was it was David for that. Yeah, it was Saul's win. It was Abner's win, right, right, it was there is so neither saw Abner and David, none of them actually engaged in the hunting down of. The Philistines, But it was David turn the tides. Right, That's what I'm saying. The parades usually aren't true. Yes, the accolades usually aren't entirely true. And we tend to get jealous of the perceived slight against us when somebody else is being elevated, right, And it's just kind of a silly thing, and jealousy is like a root. It turns into bitterness and it'll consume you and you just become a shallow who you are. Yeah. Well there's a lot of sermons in there for sure, so hey, that's all the time we have, however, so hopefully we'll see you tomorrow on the Bible, guys,