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The Women in Technology Podcast inspires its listeners with stories from leaders within the organization, influential women in the STEM industry, the men who help support women rise, and other captivating stories to empower and reinforce WIT's motto of advancing girls and women from the classroom to the boardroom.
Take a listen, get inspired, and rise!
Maryanne Cantwell (00:04)
Welcome to the Wit Podcasts, where bold conversations have real
Maryanne Cantwell (00:08)
Impact.
Maryanne Cantwell (00:09)
Hi, I'm Maryanne Cantwell.
Janelle Merritt (00:11)
And I'm Janelle Merritt. Every episode we bring to you conversations with innovators, executives, entrepreneurs, and change makers who are shaping what's next.
Maryanne Cantwell (00:23)
Whether you're leading a company, launching something new or simply curious about the future
Janelle Merritt (00:28)
You're in the right place.
Maryanne Cantwell (00:30)
Before we begin, a quick note. The views and opinions shared on this podcast are our own and those of our guests. They do not represent the views, positions, or official policies of the companies, organizations, agencies, or clients with which we or our guests may be affiliated. Welcome to the WIT podcast.
Maryanne Cantwell (00:53)
Zhenia brings more than 25 years of government contracting experience spanning business development, strategic planning, and client relationship management. A recognized voice on federal technology modernization, Klevitsky is a frequent commentator on AI adoption and government and is an active advocate for technology innovation in the public sector. Zhenia previously served on the board of directors for WIT and has leadership roles with ATC AIC and the Wizzer
Zhenia it's so great to be here with you today. How are you?
Zhenia Klevitsky (01:25)
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor to be on this podcast.
Maryanne Cantwell (01:29)
Yeah,
I'm so excited that you can continue your journey with Wit.
Zhenia Klevitsky (01:34)
Wonderful to be got.
Maryanne Cantwell (01:36)
Now, the first time that we met, I remember what really struck me about you is that you have so much confidence. You're so calm and you're so assured with yourself. Is that shaped by something in particular?
Zhenia Klevitsky (01:46)
It is and wasn't always there. It was a journey, as you can imagine. But really what shaped it is my upbringing where my family, my parents and I, my grandparents, we came to the United States as refugees from the former Soviet Union. And I came here, I didn't speak well, my family really didn't speak English, I didn't speak English, so it was it was difficult that we
I grew up in Section Eight housing, so I went from being in the former Soviet Union to refugee camps, multiple places in the world, and then growing up in Section Eight housing and really s really watching my parents persevere in that environment. So for example, my mom went from teaching linguistics in a university in the f in like in now Latvia to coming to the United States and really having to start from the bottom.
And having an entry level job carrying boxels. And then she worked her way up and eventually had a career in information technology. So I really learned early on what it takes to come from literally nothing, zero, to something, making yourself making something out of yourself in in the United States in this environment. So I learned a lot of resilience, resource.
resourcefulness and honestly, if I can do it, anybody can do it. If you can come from a background like that, anybody can really do it. So yeah. That's really what kind of helped shape who I am today.
Maryanne Cantwell (03:21)
Yeah, how does that belief kind of become real? 'Cause I know that you've lived it, but was there a moment for you?
Zhenia Klevitsky (03:28)
There really was a moment for me where I really I started out in the government consulting space while I was getting my MBA. So while I was in school, I was able to get an internship at one of the companies here in our in our industry. And and most people say it's a all about know Easter Bagger connections, but for me it really wasn't. It didn't know anybody. I I grew up in Pennsylvania, I came to the DC area.
for grad school and while I was getting my MBA, I applied, I interviewed, and I got the internship. And that really started the trajectory for me. But honestly, it really was built on merit. Again, watching my mom go from having to lift boxes to having a great career and really focusing on work ethic and being adaptable, having that persistence.
I never walked into a room thinking I was at a disadvantage. I always just pushed and knew that if I tried my best, I I would get there. So really I think that turning point and the beginning point, not even the turning point for me, was that internship.
Maryanne Cantwell (04:40)
Yeah. That's crazy to see your s you know, think back on how far you've come in that moment in time and that you think that was just, you know, like something you inherently grew up seeing and understanding that like you had the confidence and the strength within you to learn, you know, and adapt.
Zhenia Klevitsky (04:56)
It's almost like the opposite where I feel like a lot of people have and I obviously we all have self doubt how oftentimes, but I think it was the opposite. I didn't see barriers because if I saw how people pushed through barriers. So it was more like what can I do to get this done? I need to accomplish it.
Maryanne Cantwell (05:14)
Yeah. Do you think that that made you earlier on in your career the maybe than other people being comfortable in uncomfortable situations?
Zhenia Klevitsky (05:24)
Honestly, I do. I think it shaped that for me. It's always has been for me about confidence, like you said, versus what might some people might perceive as arrogance. But really the difference was that I was prepared. I would c always, always constantly do my homework to make sure that I even when I felt like I didn't know the subject matter or I might be at a disadvantage with whomever I was in the room, I always did my homework to get ahead of the game.
And I I was always trying to be the most prepared person in the room, whether that was knowing a mission or knowing technical aspects of what the subject matter was, were the business aspects. I was always prepared, always researching, knowledgeable, and ready. And with that, I felt confident. I felt like I deserved to be in the room. I didn't feel uncomfortable. So
If I had just walked in and thinking I knew enough that that that would have never worked. I always had to prepare and really, really know so that I could feel confident.
Maryanne Cantwell (06:27)
Yeah. And so you weren't even really thinking about, the odds are stacked against me in this situation. You were saying this is the occasion and this the situation and this is how I'm gonna rise to it.
Zhenia Klevitsky (06:38)
Exactly right. I would look at I would think about if it were a meeting, with even as an intern when I was presenting to senior leadership in the Department of Defense, for example, I was in the room. Even this had felt like I'm an intern to it really belong in the room, but I would do everything possible to really figure out
the subject matter and not look stupid, if you will. That wasn't a gender thing. I know we're not talking about that, but at the moment, but it was more like, okay, I'm at that time, I'm I'm in my early twenties. I'm not even a full time employee. I'm at in I'm an intern, but I knew that if I knew what I was talking about, I would be taken seriously. And then I felt more comfortable.
Maryanne Cantwell (07:20)
Yeah, I feel like that's something that a lot of people relate to is feeling like your situation kind of is overwhelming you. and like the room that you're walking into like isn't made for you. Like if it's as a woman in the tech world or, you know, like as a minority, maybe in a male dominated field or in the department, for example. And there's a lot of self doubt, I think, right now, especially with that there isn't the right support, there aren't resources that
you know, certain topics and minorities like aren't really being discussed and there isn't that framework of support. but do you have specific advice for someone who might be feeling that way?
Zhenia Klevitsky (07:56)
Well, first of all, what people are feeling, if you're feeling that way, it's real. I'm not gonna tell you that barriers aren't real or that they aren't there because some of them are. Resources also aren't always there. The support that you need isn't always there. That's true. I'm not gonna minimize it, but here's what I do know. You can't wait for the perfect condition to start moving forward. They're a trap because you can convince yourself for
an endless amount of time that the condition that you're looking for isn't there. So the people who actually break through are rarely the ones who had the most, the most resources, the most everything perfect environment. They're the ones that do the most with what we have. So I think I would say stop waiting to feel ready. Readiness is a feeling that comes after you start, not before. Jump in feet first.
You'll never feel prepared enough. As much as I prepared, I never felt it was enough. Never will feel resourced enough or confident enough just standing still. Yeah. Take the next step so you can that you can build the momentum in small moves, not giant heaps. That would be really my my advice when you're feeling that one. Just take the meat.
Maryanne Cantwell (09:17)
Yeah, that's great advice. And I just want to circle back to just part of what you said, because you said, you know, barriers are real, which is a core component. And there are ways that, you know, we can always talk about like
Maryanne Cantwell (09:30)
You just
Maryanne Cantwell (09:31)
rise above your circumstances, but how do you actually do that?
Zhenia Klevitsky (09:36)
You an example with myself that I had later on in my career in my life. I had children, I would say, compared to the norm later in life. And so now I'm a mother to have an eight-year-old and a thirteen-year-old, and they're both athletes. I've built a 25-year career and I've been able to do that while spending time with my children.
And balancing that. So I think that that could and that oftentimes is a circumstance that has held women in particular back, sometimes men too. So what I figured out early on is that balance isn't a myth if you're intentional about it. It's not about really trying to split yourself in half. It's about being fully present for whatever is in front of you at the moment. So when I'm with my kids, I'm with my kids. If I'm at work.
I'm at work. I won't pretend that sometimes I'm not texting or doing messages for work when I'm with my kids. It happens, but I make a conscious decision to spend that time with them when I'm with them. And when I'm at work, I'm at work. I refuse to let either side suffer. It wasn't about be stubborn. It was a standard that I set for myself. My family deserves my best, and but so does my career.
So I decided early on that these two things don't have to compete. So what really made it work was being clear about my priorities and asking for help or support when I needed it. I have had nannies, I've had a pair, whatever it takes to be able to, while I'm at at work, focus on work. And then when I'm at home, it's come dedicated to my children. So I built the right team around me.
More or less even at home, and at work. So essentially I stopped waiting for permission to design a life that worked on my terms. So looking back, I don't see someone who sacrificed my kids or my job one for the other. I just refused to accept that it was the only choice. So I think that for me, or not for for many women, that's a circumstance. There are many, obviously, but that's one that certainly could have helped me back.
Maryanne Cantwell (11:49)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you really you know, you're showing up in every different scenario. It's not just about work or just about family. I love that. It's for you.
Zhenia Klevitsky (12:00)
Don't make me happy.
Maryanne Cantwell (12:02)
I feel like that just needs a whole cheer. It's like I love that. Yeah. That's great.
Maryanne Cantwell (12:10)
If you're passionate about advancing women in technology, we'd love for you to be a part of this movement. We're looking for mentors who are willing to share sponsors who believe in investing in future leaders, and organizations that want to make a lasting impact across our communities. Your support helps us connect women and girls with leaders, insights, and opportunities that inspire the next generation of innovators. To learn more about becoming a mentor, member,
Sponsoring an episode or partnering with Women in Technology, contact us at women in technology dot org. Together, we're not just talking about the future of technology, we're helping build it.
Maryanne Cantwell (12:49)
Do you think there's a specific moment when you were kind of confronted with that or maybe like a situation at work where you really had to like face that reality and, you know, like put your foot down saying, This is how I'm gonna run things. I am gonna have balance.
Zhenia Klevitsky (13:03)
I always try to get as much, you know, in this industry, can't always get everything done. A lot of it falls in after hours or a lot of it falls on the weekends, but I always try to get as much done in advance as I possibly can. And knowing what I if I have a kid commitment coming up in the future. So for me, what I'll do typically is if I need to, I'll work during the day and then I'll take a break and spend time with my kids.
d during dinner and afterwards with their homework. And then when they go to bed, I'll I'll just get back on the computer and work at that time. And on the weekends, this very similar situation and they're a little older now. So they even at eight years old kind of have their own lives. But when they have sporting events, what I'll do is I will get up early in the morning and do the work that I need to do, spend time with them doing whether it's their sporting event or whatever they need. And then when there's a break in between, I'll do it, I'll work.
So I really try to make sure I balance it out that way. It's it's a a lot about time management more than anything else.
Maryanne Cantwell (14:05)
Yeah, that's great. I want to pivot a little bit and kind of talk about a some more of the adversity that a lot of our listeners face, I think, in the workplace. and I know that when you and I have talked before, you've talked about being underestimated in the workplace and how it's not always plays out, it doesn't always play out the way that people might think. Do you ever think that and being underestimated can be an advantage?
Zhenia Klevitsky (14:30)
I actually over time have learned to learn to see it as an advantage. Whereas maybe when I was younger, I saw it more as a disadvantage. I would still do my homework, but I would when I was younger, I would feel like I wouldn't be taken seriously, especially in a male dominated even Department of Defense type of environment. But honestly, over time I think it's a powerful thing when you're underestimated, especially when
Go back and you do the homework that you need to do. Frankly, confidence just cave great equalizer. Being underestimated means people don't see you coming. Then when you deliver, it's almost like a shop and it's a position of power, if you want to frame it that way. So essentially less scrutiny early on means more room to focus on outcomes instead of how you look or optics. It's really this quiet momentum. People don't see it coming and then come.
If you can deliver and you believe in yourself that you know your subject matter expertise, it really is showstopping. And then that's when people start to respect you and and you're not afraid. You're speaking up and people start to respect you and see who who you really are. But I think oftentimes if you come into the room and you're already expecting you're overestimated or people are always relying on you, that's great too. But when people don't see it coming, I think it's just even that more that much more powerful.
Maryanne Cantwell (15:55)
Yes. That's an incredible skill to learn early on, you know, and like harness. Yeah. And I think that especially with tech and like you're talking about, you know, government contracting, it's perceived for sure as a male dominated space. have you encountered it that way?
Zhenia Klevitsky (16:14)
I know that it is a male dominated space, but for me personally, I have never really taken gender bias into consideration. for because just my background the way I grew up, when you come to this country with nothing, that experience really is your became my superpower, if you will. So I know that oftentimes I'm the only female in the room, but I don't think about it that way. I never walked into a room thinking I was at a disadvantage. And
That was my biggest asset. It wasn't like, man, I'm the only woman in in the room. It was always be confident, always your homework. Always know that you belong there, even if like you feel like you don't. So and that goes back to what we just talked about, being underestimated. It is your advantage. People don't see you coming and then you deliver. So
you know, I always I am aware that the numbers aren't in my favor, whether that's government contracting, like you mentioned technology. I was an enterprise architect for ten years and there are very few females in that industry as well. But you have to make a decision, a conscious decision early on, not to internalize that, not to see that as a weakness, not to use that as a crush. Some people just I think there's so much in industry that and we need it.
To support women, absolutely. But I don't think you should think about it that way. It should be who's in the room? How prepared am I? How much do I need to know? It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. As long as you understand what you're speaking about, both technically and business related, then you're going to succeed, whether you're a man or a woman. There are moments where I really
Did especially early on in my career had this then even still today, every time you start a new job or anytime you're meeting with new people, you always seem to have to establish yourself at the table. It is hard, it is difficult, but you know you've done it, you know you can do it, you've done the research, you've done the homework, you know what you're talking about. So you can't let those moments define who you are or your trajectory. So that's essentially
how I think about it. I don't think about gender bias at all. I just don't let it have the power to slow me down. I think every woman in this industry deserves to feel that freedom. Just be prepared and don't think about men versus women and how they're gonna live at you. Don't even think about that. Show up, be prepared, and that'll that'll speak volumes by itself.
Maryanne Cantwell (18:52)
Yeah. Don't wait for permission, you know, for your voice to be heard. Yeah.
Janelle Merritt (18:57)
Okay.
Maryanne Cantwell (18:58)
That's awesome. What do you think that women need to hear more to like reframe that dichotomy from, you know, you mentioned man versus woman, but I think we hear all the time.
Zhenia Klevitsky (19:08)
Do think once I feel like sometimes that's part of the problem is that we're creating this self fulfilling prophecy where it's like, well, you know, I had a var chick because I was a woman and yes, I I believed on you did. I I certainly have. But I think that you cannot let it define you and you can't think about it. Think about more what your superpower is, what you're good at, and show everybody that you're better.
Nobody hands you a roadmap. You have to figure it out by moving, by taking the next step, the next meeting, saying yes, especially saying yes to uncomfortable opportunities or situations where you don't feel like you're ready. Learn and become ready. Raise your hand before you feel ready. Sometimes you see we see other leaders as inspirations. That's great. I I do. I have some some women I look up to, but don't see them as an inspiration necessarily.
You you should, but not as a limitation. Someone else's past isn't a ceiling on your own. Be confident. I can't I can't emphasize enough the confidence, the resilience, the ownership. Because most women don't hear it stated often enough. You've got to own it. And also being coachable is a strength. It's not a gap. Sometimes I mean, I still learn from folks, I still learn from my staff, I learn from people all around. Be open to
constructive criticism. and then don't let mistakes rally you. The more mistakes you make and make 10 a day, I'm sure more, the more mistakes you make, the more you learn. It's about how you fix them and move on. That's what actually people remember. They remember your steadiness, they remember what did to move on from those mistakes. And keep in mind success doesn't require giving up the rest of your life.
Like I said before, you you need to have balance and that's that's important. You don't have to work twenty four seven to get to where you wanna be. Make sure you keep that balance because that's what keeps you moving and thriving at the same time.
Maryanne Cantwell (21:12)
Yeah, I love it. And I think that's totally like a mental trap that we fall into is, you know, seeing those women who are amazing examples and then wondering if, well, I don't even know if I could get that far, let alone, you know, like that is it does feel like the ceiling sometimes. And it's hard to kind of capture. So I'm glad that you like, you know, specifically called that out. I'm totally I'm like really thinking about that. But
I think a lot of people do doubt themselves and it's motivating. I think that's like one of the first places we look is for those inspirational women. Do you have anything to directly say to women who are doubting themselves?
Zhenia Klevitsky (21:49)
I do. and I won't pretend I don't doubt either, but I I think doubting yourself makes them stronger because then you try to persevere in the areas where you feel you're weakened. But I just really want people to know that anything is possible. Whatever version of this was important for me that you're carrying right now, whether it's the wrong background, the wrong zip code, the wrong accent, the wrong gender, it's possible. And I'm living proof of that.
I didn't come into this industry of connections for roadmap. I came with a hunger and willingness to outwork the room. I learned early on that the skills you build navigating hard things, really hard things, not inconveniences, usually the skills that actually matter at the highest level. Again, resilience, adaptability, the ability to read the room.
Build trust and keep moving when the path disappears. And if you're sitting somewhere right now feeling like you don't quite belong, I want you to hear this. That belonging is not something that gets granted to you. You decide it. You walk in, you do the work. And one day you look around and you realize that you've built something. You've earned the seat, not because somebody gave it to you, but because you got yourselves there. First and foremost, believe in yourselves.
Do your homework, be resilient and you will get wherever you want to go.
Maryanne Cantwell (23:12)
my gosh. I feel so like pumped up right now. Like this is so amazing. Every time I chat with you, I feel like I just wanna keep going on for hours and like pick your brain. This is so great.
Zhenia Klevitsky (23:24)
Thank you. You're so funny. It just you know, I it's it's not an easy environment to navigate for sure. I hope I didn't simplify or make it like it was. But there are so many things you can do, especially as a one nineteen is a slow bird.
Maryanne Cantwell (23:37)
And thank you for your vulnerability 'cause it's hard to kind of talk about those things, you know, like in such a public forum about these were real challenges that you faced and you know, you still do face them every day and you just show up. Yeah.
Zhenia Klevitsky (23:50)
every single day there's always gonna be some. But like you said, you show up and make sure you're prepared.
Maryanne Cantwell (23:55)
Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Well, we're going to be chatting and hearing more from other amazing women in technology at the Wit Connect coming up. And so I hope that I get to see you there. it's on September twenty fourth. So if you're able to join, that would be so awesome.
Zhenia Klevitsky (24:12)
I'll be there in some minute.
Maryanne Cantwell (24:14)
Yay. Okay. Well I'll look forward to chatting with you then.
Zhenia Klevitsky (24:17)
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you again for allowing me to be on the podcast.
Maryanne Cantwell (24:22)
Absolutely. Thanks, Zhenia
Maryanne Cantwell (24:27)
Thank you for joining the Wit podcast today. If this conversation challenged your thinking or inspired a new idea, share it with someone who's building what's next. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and follow us for more conversations with leaders shaping business, technology, innovation, and the future of work. We would like to offer a special thanks to Shoshi Calderon on our podcast team who runs everything behind the scenes. Remember.
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not represent the official positions of any company, organization, agency, or client. Until next time, stay curious, stay courageous, stay whip.
Voiceover (25:13)
Voxtopica