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Wendy Coulter hosts Don Emmett, managing director and owner of Murphy Business Sales of Raleigh, to discuss business brokerage, exit planning, and how small marketing and technology shifts can create outsized business impact. Don shares his path from semiconductor distribution on Long Island to business brokerage in North Carolina, including starting just before the 2008 downturn, and explains how Murphy helps owners value businesses, plan exits, and execute succession or third-party sales. He describes a key “hummingbird effect” from an XPX AI workshop: search behavior is shifting from Google to AI, making broad, consistent multi-platform presence more important. Don outlines how AI prompts now help his team create confidential teasers, robust 50–70 page memorandums, and analyze LOIs faster while emphasizing confidentiality and NDAs. He offers planning and consistency advice, common growth ceilings for $1–$5M businesses, and closes with “enjoy every sandwich” and contact details.
00:00 Brand Innovation Intro
00:26 Meet Wendy and Don
01:36 What Business Brokers Do
02:29 Semiconductor Career Lessons
05:24 Exit and Career Pivot
07:12 Moving to North Carolina
08:16 Starting in the 2008 Crash
11:23 Hummingbird Effect AI Shift
14:43 Posting Everywhere with Help
18:07 AI for Clients and Valuation
22:45 Murphy AI Prompts and Privacy
25:50 Deal Terms With AI
26:17 Newsletter Break
26:49 Privacy And NDAs
29:11 Innovation Or Sink
31:42 Exit Planning Team Sport
33:15 Consistency In Marketing
37:48 Planning Goals And Delegation
40:28 Ideal Deal Size
42:50 Valuation And Buy Sell
45:28 Enjoy Every Sandwich
46:19 Where To Find Don
47:18 Doctor Of Rock Story
50:33 Final Thanks And Outro
Find Don Emmett on LinkedIn, (919) 881-9997, or at murphybusiness.com/Raleigh
Creators and Guests
What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?
Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.
For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.
Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.
Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.
Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.
[00:00:00] Speaker 4: Are you ready to unlock the secrets of brand innovation? Here, you'll discover unexpected ways to make your brand soar in value. Get ready for inspiring stories, actionable tips, and insights you'll need to build your brand and learn an entirely new way to fly. This is the Hummingbird Effect. And now your host, Wendy Coulter.
[00:00:26] Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Wendy Coulter, president of Hummingbird Creative Group. Welcome to the Hummingbird Effect podcast today. Um, our preface for the show is around the hummingbird effect in marketing, and how small tweaks in your marketing plan can make big impacts in areas of the business that you might have not expected.
So today, I am here with actually a great friend, Don Emmitt. Um- Hello. Hello, Don. How are you today?
[00:00:54] Speaker: I'm wonderful, Wendy.
[00:00:55] Speaker 2: Great.
[00:00:55] Speaker: Thank you so much for inviting me on your- You're welcome ... on your cast.
[00:00:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited. Well, it's a beautiful Friday afternoon. Mm-hmm. And so, um, like I said, we'll just have some fun here.
I'm really, really interested in having you on as a guest, 'cause you're not like one of my typical marketing directors. Mm-hmm. But you have seen a lot of businesses in your space. Mm-hmm. Um, and so let's talk about business brokerage a little bit, and what you do- Okay ... um, today. And then maybe weave in a couple of fun facts about Don.
Mm. Or maybe we could kick off with that. Um, I think you've been a, a DJ in your lifetime, correct?
[00:01:30] Speaker: All right. Well, I'll, um, I'll build, I'll build up to that. So I'm- Build
[00:01:34] Speaker 2: up to
[00:01:34] Speaker: that ... so I'm Don Emmitt.
[00:01:35] Speaker 2: Okay.
[00:01:36] Speaker: I am the managing director and owner of, of the, um, Murphy Business Sales franchise- Awesome ... in Raleigh.
So Murphy Business Sales is a business brokerage and M&A advisory firm. Um, been around for about 30 years. We've, we've done over $4 billion in transactions. There's about 120 offices throughout the US and Canada, about 250 brokers working together, working mostly with, um, business owners. Um, helping them, um, evaluate value, and plan an exit strategy, and ultimately helping them with the exit, whether it be a succession, or a third-party sale, or a transfer to a next generation.
[00:02:24] Speaker 2: Awesome.
[00:02:24] Speaker: We do that. I've been doing business brokerage for 18 years now. Spent most of my career in the electronic component distribution business in New York. Okay. Long Island. basically we sold widgets, for you economic fans. Um, and our widgets happened to be a semiconductor, a computer chip.
And it was a distribute, buy, sell, buy low, hopefully sell higher. And we had a particular niche in the military and aerospace industry. And particularly when Long Island had a, had a robust defense and aerospace industry, which has since pretty much all moved to the South. Like me. Um- we had a nice run.
Eventually became a partner, and we did well. Then the early aughts, um, became clear the internet was not, um, a friend to our business model. And, um- You know, we had secret sources, and we were some other people's secret sources, and with the dawn of the internet, there were no secrets. And-
[00:03:32] Speaker 2: Right ...
[00:03:33] Speaker: and we used to be able to pick up, um, inventory, pennies on the dollar, surplus from Lockheed Martin, and in there might be a, a diamond microprocessor that Raytheon had been looking for, and sell it for, um, fa- a factor of many times.
But now with the internet and eBay, all the, um inventory managers at the big companies now thought their, their, um, excess inventory was, was golden. So that cut off a, a bit of supply, or at least certainly affected margins. And another thing started to come on the scene was counterfeiting from China.
So there would be these military parts that were scarce, a lot of them obsolete. Um, the commercial world drives the technology, and military systems are designed to last 30,
[00:04:29] Speaker 2: 40- Mm-hmm ...
[00:04:29] Speaker: you know, B-52, 100 years.
[00:04:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:04:32] Speaker: And, um, whereas the, the life cycle of a commercial product can be a couple of months. Couple
And so the sem- semiconductor manufacturer's co- constantly upgrading to keep up, so. So, um, so a lot of things became obsolete, and we kind of specialized in that world of obsolete parts. And, and suddenly there was, you know, a part that we'd been looking for for years, and suddenly there's 10,000 of them in the Qingbaijiang.
, We'd have the parts tested as best we could, but we ran into some failures. And it's a bad day when, if, if you're selling to commercial parts to Apple computer, when Apple calls you and says, you know, "Go look. Listen, your parts are failing in our system," that's a bad day. It's a really bad day when Raytheon calls you and says your, "Your p- your parts are failing in the landing gear for the, you know, F-36" or whatever.
Before I knew a whole lot about exit strategy and, and business valuation, I said, "You know, I've been doing this for 10 year, 20 years. Am I, am I gonna do this for another 20?" So I, I had two partners, and I was the youngest, ran sales and marketing, and we'd grown it to about a $20 million operation.
And I I wish I'd been more strategic at the time, but I, I just get ... My em- emotions, um, took the best of me, and I was waking up in the m- m- middle, in the mornings gagging on my anxieties and such. So I just told my partners, I I, I think I wanna do something different. And we, we arranged, um, you know, um, a buyout for me and, and the building we owned in Huntington, Long Island.
And I dabbled for a few years and was actually gonna get into financial planning in Manhattan with a buddy of mine. I was taking courses, and one of his clients approached him about helping him sell his business. And he thought, "Oh, financial planning. I mean, business brokerage. This could be a nice add-on to my financial planning practice."
Hmm. "Do you wanna go explore this and see if it, see what we think?" So sure, let's do some research. And we just happened to, um, stumble onto a conference in Charlotte, North Carolina. Nice. This is spring of 2007, and we said, "Well, well let's go. Let's, um, take some classes, pick some brains, talk to people, and see what the deal is."
And I, I was impressed with the people that we met and talked to, and, and people were making a decent living, and clearly had, um, much less headaches than, than I had had in my previous life in signing, you know, personally signing on a $2 million line of credit. So I, I was also impressed with North Carolina and the city of Charlotte.
Yeah. And, um, I told my buddy, "You know, I think I, I like this business, but, you know, I don't think I wanna start another company in New York." So long story short, um, I wound up connecting with, um, a regional business brokerage firm on Long Island that had regional and national aspirations, and basically said, "If we decide we like each other, how about I open an office for you in, in the Carolinas?"
So I worked with them for a year in New York, kinda learned the trade somewhat. And much like Jed Clampett, um, packed up the family and, um- ... moved to moved to North Carolina.
[00:07:51] Speaker 2: Moved to Cackalacky.
[00:07:53] Speaker: Cackalacky. Cackalacky. And by that time, with more research, I discovered that the, the Triangle was a better place for me and the, and the business, and, and the schools.
And we particularly li- liked Chapel Hill 'cause it reminded us back then of of what Huntington, Long Island looked like.
[00:08:09] Speaker 2: I was about to say, you- Yeah ... learned you're not the only ones here- Yeah ... for sure, right? Yeah, yeah. You're here in good company.
[00:08:15] Speaker: Yeah. So, um-
[00:08:16] Speaker 2: Yeah ...
[00:08:16] Speaker: so then I, you know, we- Then I got here pretty much just in time for the world to come to a complete stop.
This is, this is '08. We got here May of '08, and then September of '08 Lehman Brothers goes out of business, and the world comes to a pretty much a complete halt. And, But, you know, even in that situation, some people have to sell, so, or, or have to buy. If there's no jobs, buying a business, you know, certainly a good opportunity or good solution.
And my f- my first transaction was a, um, an auto transmission business, and it had been two partners a money partner and a, an, an operating partner, and one partner had passed away, the money partner, and now you had, um, without a buy-sell agreement. And now you had a, you know, a, a wife who's, you know, a spouse who's a widow, who's looking for as, you know, as much money as she can get out of the business, and a, and an operating partner who's just basically looking for a job.
So it was, um, so it was kind of a conflict, and I wound up pretty much representing the The buyer and the operating partner and kind of co-brokered that with a gentleman from EnTrust Associates. And we finally worked out a nice deal for everyone, and I, I liked the gentleman from EnTrust, and we went on to switch teams and work for EnTrust.
Eventually owned the company. Um, I was, um, recruited by Murphy Business Sales on several occasions along the way. And it's because it was a franchise, I, I c- I kinda pushed back and said, "No, I'm, I'm from New York. That's okay. I don't need a franchise." But as time went by, I looked into it deeper and realized that, um, my con- some of my concerns weren't, um, weren't correct and, um, it wouldn't infringe my geography.
And I joined Murphy in 2018, and wish I'd done it years sooner, so. Love that. But t- to go back, and one of the other things about, um, business brokerage, um, that was of interest to me, um, was the idea, much like I was also a bit of a real estate investor. The idea that, um, I'd be able to have access to buying a, a little business, um, either as a cash cow or to fix it up and sell it as part of my business brokerage thing, so.
[00:10:51] Speaker 2: Well, so you, you have a very varied background- Mm ... between business ownership in a larger, in larger organizations- Mm-hmm ... business ownership within the brokerage community, business ownership because of the brokerage community and your access- Mm ... to things. Um, and then just guiding so many business owners on how to exit.
Mm-hmm. I am sure you have seen so much, so I'm really interested in learning about a hummingbird effect that you can share with us that you've seen either in your own world or in- So it- ... a client's world.
[00:11:23] Speaker: In my business, you know, the s- the sales cycle is so long typically. Um, you know, I, one client, one of my bigger sales was a $2 million.
You know, it, it took 10 years- Mm ... to, um, after first meeting to come to a, a successful transaction, and he just wasn't ready. You know, he'd ta- Right ... I mean, and he had plan A, which didn't turn out to work, and I was apparently plan B- ... with, with selling the business. He was g- he was trying to do, um take care of two people in-house, but one person left and the other one got cold feet, and so bad for them, good, good for me.
Um, but what I, I came up with, you know, in terms of a hummingbird effect is, um, I think we talked about this recently, is the, um- The AI workshop that, um, XPX put on.
[00:12:16] Speaker 2: Okay. Yes. Mm-hmm. And XPX is the- Yeah ... a group that we're both part of. Yes, yes. A great group here in Raleigh, North Carolina- Oh, yeah ... for networking.
[00:12:23] Speaker: Yes. Yeah. And, and it's n- a nationwide organization. Well, that's
[00:12:25] Speaker 2: true. And
[00:12:26] Speaker: we have a chapter- It's part of a na-
[00:12:26] Speaker 2: national ...
[00:12:27] Speaker: Raleigh chapter.
[00:12:28] Speaker 2: Yes.
[00:12:28] Speaker: So it's the Exit Planning Exchange. So, um, it's a robust group, and they put on lunches with speakers, and this is with like their signature event. And they brought in this, um, Ethan King and, and a marketing, digital marketing expert, and, you know, with, with quite a story.
And he's become an AI maven, and this was like a four-hour workshop, but, um, maybe I'm not the sharpest tool as I, I, I used to be, but it, it could have been a two-day workshop for me, and I... It was a, a mind-blower. And, um, and one of the things that I think a big takeaway was, is how, you know, we've, we've all been trained or come up, you know, in, in the internet age, you know, you gotta be on Google.
You know, you gotta... Google's gotta be able to find you. And he's saying how, how Google searches have declined s- significantly.
[00:13:24] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[00:13:25] Speaker: And people are using, you know, AI-
[00:13:27] Speaker 2: Right ...
[00:13:28] Speaker: As their, as their search engine. And you need to be out there. And, and, you know, I had noticed a couple of, you know, when, when I get inquiries, um, from couple different sources you know BizBuySell is a big source, and, um, things that come in off the Murphy website, you know, generally asks, you know, "How did you hear about us?"
And, you know, it used to be, you know, Google or... But now I started to see, you know, ChatGPT, AI, and it was eye-opening. And so the thing, you know, the takeaway or another takeaway from this workshop was, you know, you have to be out there. And, um, you know, we've all, you know... I've done some posting. I, I have a company that does some AI posting and po- some LinkedIn posting, but, you know, he made a point of you can't just be on LinkedIn and just Facebook.
You, you need to be on all of the platforms. And, you know, the more you interact, the more you're out there, the more you're likely to be, to be found-
[00:14:38] Speaker 2: Right ...
[00:14:39] Speaker: if someone's looking for a, a business broker in, in Raleigh, so.
[00:14:43] Speaker 2: So what, what have you done as the result of the workshop that you feel like is, um, something small that you think is gonna really move the needle for you?
[00:14:58] Speaker: So I'm still kinda playing catch-up, so I You know, Murphy as a whole, and you hear about people at, in the business brokerage world, how they, they say their, their career really took off when they, they brought in an admin and And I've historically used interns from one of the local colleges. Um, and mostly I haven't really used their talents that much.
I us- may use them for data entry when I'm doing an evaluation. You know, they, they enter into the Murphy computer, the financials, tax returns, and such. And I've had them done some marketing, some make some phone calls for me. But now I see whether, you know, I have a... My new intern is, is he's really good, one of the best I've had, and I think he's a sophomore, so I think I'll have him for a couple years.
[00:15:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:15:49] Speaker: But I've been consciously trying to bring him, you know, into more things, and we took the slides from that AI workshop and tried to, you know, reverse engineer and work backwards and see how we could take from that and utilize into my business, and we're, we're still working on that. But one of the things is, you know, there's an app to, um, to post on all, you know, one app and it'll post on, you know, Pinterest, it'll post on TikTok, and all the major sites.
So a- again, and having you out there, the more you're out there, the more the bots, I guess, can, can pick you up.
[00:16:32] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:16:32] Speaker: And, um, bring in a potentially, a new client.
[00:16:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, so AI is, um, you know, the buzz of, of everything right now. Yeah, it does. So, um, we can, we can deconstruct that, um, a little bit. You, um, talk about having help of an intern, and I think so many people are trying to figure out if that's the right move or not with- Mm
uh, you know, all of the buzz around AI. What's it, what's it like to work with a young person to implement this for you? I just went way- Oh, it, it's- ... off script here.
[00:17:10] Speaker: It's, um, you know, it it keeps you young. They're, you know, they're they're younger than my kids and-
[00:17:15] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm ...
[00:17:16] Speaker: and I'm a big music fan as I, I saw the, s- some great vinyl albums on the hallway on the way into the studio that I'll have to check out on the way out.
But that's kinda one of the prerequisites for my interview. When I interview them I go, "Well, do you like, um, music from the '70s- ... through the '90s and '80s?" And so I listen to an eclectic music station, and they, they generally go along. And the last intern he got the job immediately when he said one of his favorite artists was Bob Dylan.
I go, "Oh, you're in."
[00:17:54] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:17:54] Speaker: So, but it's interesting the references that, that they don't get.
[00:17:58] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:17:58] Speaker: And, um, and I guess probably if there were to- They shared references with me I, that I wouldn't have a clue about either,
[00:18:06] Speaker 2: that's right. How does that play into your, um, advisory services in, um, in the business brokerage area? Do you see a lot of your, um, companies that you're working with utilizing AI and being more innovative these days? Like, is that kind of a prerequisite for selling a business or buying a business today- Yeah
to understand that part of what's going on? I guess
[00:18:31] Speaker: some of them dabble, but I, I would say, you know, just given the demographics, a lot of my clients kinda look like me.
[00:18:40] Speaker 2: Okay.
[00:18:41] Speaker: With some gray hair on the top but there's often still fire in the furnace. I do a lot of work in the home services and the trades, and there are a lot of people that have, you know, started out as a technician and then, you know, and then grew, you know, brought out another truck, and the
Now they got eight trucks, and now they got a company and a business, and they may or not have learned along the way how to really be a business person. Right. And so they have, you know, the technical skills, but, um, you know- Sure. Well, and I think- ... they, they're lacking in maybe the marketing and finance and the, the, um, the sharper ones.
You know, I try depending on when we engage, um, companies are more valuable, um, if there's, um, a second layer of management or if there's a, a number two if, you know, the owner... If the business is too dependent on the owner, that's, um, that's gonna knock down valuation, and that's gonna be a problem for, for potential buyers.
[00:19:44] Speaker 2: Right. Have you seen AI in the sense of how you're looking at using it for your own business? Um maybe not seen it, but do you have a comprehension of how in the home services space especially, it seems to me people are searching different now than ever. Mm-hmm. Like, I watch my husband do YouTube searches at home now.
Mm-hmm. Um, and everything's at his fingertips, whether he wants to try to fix it himself or try to find someone. Um, it seems like you know, the way, the way we're searching now is just, just so different. We might be searching directly on a platform like Pinterest or YouTube. Mm-hmm. Um, or even LinkedIn where- Yeah
we're typing in a question, you know? Who can h- who in my network can help me with this, right? Right. Um, and so I think in home services especially, um, is a place where AI can, um, really, like, help you figure out how to reach a much greater, um, number of people, um, just because we've become more accustomed to just being able to talk about our problem to an AI instead of trying to figure out keywords.
Mm-hmm. Um, so do you think some of the work that you are doing for yourself you'll be able to share with some of your customers to help them- Sure ... kind of navigate this change?
[00:21:10] Speaker: So w- so there's, I, I think, three ways to look at this, to look at AI. So either, um, you embrace it and you, you, um, you incorporate it into your business skills to maybe have a competitive advantage and, and move ahead of the competition help you, you know, that...
The example of the, um, the tradesman who's becoming a business person. You get- you can help him scale maybe. He doesn't need an admin. Um, maybe he can train a, um, a bot to, to do just amazing. It can check your email, scale j- emails and pick out for the important ones and... So that's the proactive approach.
There's another, you know, thinking is, you know, you just have to do... Just if you wanna stay where you are, tread water, you need to, um, be involved in this and that. Have some sort of strategy, um, around AI and how you're gonna embrace it and either in your business and help your clients in their business.
And then I think, you know, the worst-case scenario is, um, you're gonna bury your head in the sand and say, "Oh, this is a f- passing fad. I, I don't need... That's like the internet." Um, and you g- your chances are you're gonna get left behind, or it's gonna decrease the value of your business 'cause you're, you're working with, you know, 20th-century tools in a 21st-century, um, dynamic business environment.
[00:22:35] Speaker 2: So do you feel like you've had time yet from, um, the workshop to see any success of what you're doing?
[00:22:45] Speaker: Where it's really been helpful, I've, um, I have a great regional director who's handles all of North and South Carolina. He's Ron Buck. He's a wizard. He's a former investment banker, former Navy pilot.
Um, was the COO of a mortgage, um, insurance company, which, as you can imagine, that was not a good place to be in the, the Great Recession. So, so- Right ... so he had to unwind that business and s- lay off 800 people, but found business brokerage. He was look- he was looking to buy a business, found business brokerage.
He's become very successful and, um, now he's become a mentor to, you know, we have 14 of us in the Carolinas, but his trainings, um, half the country, you know, tunes into him and his webinars. But Ron has embraced, um, AI like he's embraced Excel and Word, and he's a wizard on all those. And I think he did get some help from a consultant, but he has created, um, a series of prompts for us to help us create our marketing pieces.
So, so when we... Before we bring a company to the marketplace, basically we construct two pieces of marketing. One is the, the no-name teaser, where we're just amazing HVAC business Central and North Carolina doing, you know, 2 million in revenue, 500,000 in EBITDA and, and that kind of thing. You know, what your down payment and...
But b- being careful, and you have to be even more careful now Um, we have to be-- when we make this no-name teaser, that we have to run it back through, through AI to make sure you can't figure out what the company is.
[00:24:30] Speaker 2: Who it
[00:24:30] Speaker: is, right. Yeah. Right. So confidal- confi- confidentiality is a big thing in what we do.
Um, so we were... When Ron was first investigating this, he was very distressed when he took one of his listings, and c- can you find out who this is? And Bingo. Nailed it ...
[00:24:47] Speaker 2: immediately. Mm-hmm.
[00:24:48] Speaker: So we have to be, you know, very vague, even more so now. And so AI can help us with that and help us with the confidentiality.
And then the big piece is the confidential memorandum. It's, um, we're kind of known at Murphy for creating a very robust one. It's 50 to 70 pages, you know, telling the story of the business, the successful strategies and top customers, top employees and, and such. And the Murphy system creates a, a template, but historically it's been up to us, me, and my intern to fill in the text.
[00:25:26] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:25:27] Speaker: But now with, um, with these prompts, what, what used to take 10 or 12 hours of man hours to accomplish, we can probably do in one to two hours. And it's just, you know, amazing w- what it can do. And, and also on the deal side, you know, we have prompts for investigating letters of in- of intent. You know, you know, pull out all the the distinguishing factors.
What, any, you know, what's the down payment? What's the is there a seller finance? How much? What are the terms? And, and then if we go back and forth, we take the, you know, the original document and compare, compare this document to this document. What are any changes that were put in,
[00:26:11] Speaker 2: Isn't it amazing- It's-
how fast the analysis- It's- ... part can go- Um, yeah ... with AI?
[00:26:16] Speaker: It's
[00:26:16] Speaker 2: stunning.
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[00:26:49] Speaker 2: what about a buyer or seller who says, "I'm really worried about this right now"? And not even with your company, but just I think with brokers in general. I mean, you're dealing with very, um, private information. Um, talk about the concerns and how you're hearing the industry talk about the concerns around the privacy and, um- Mm-hmm
the confidentiality. When you're using a tool like that- Okay ... to help create these documents- Okay ... what, what's in place to-
[00:27:24] Speaker: Well, you might have been- ... make them feel better? ... you know, that's something, you know, to switch in most of the the, the AI systems, um, that you, you know, tell, tell it not to... Privacy system, tell it not to teach itself- Right
on your, on your, um, questions. And also you, you know, we need, we take great pains and to maintain the confidentiality. Um, so there's a lot of similarities to what I do to, um, real estate brokerage.
[00:27:54] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:27:55] Speaker: But one big difference is the confidentiality piece. So if you're selling a house or a building, you know, you'll, you want everyone to know.
You'll put a sign on your front lawn. But if you're selling a business, generally you want no one to know.
[00:28:10] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:28:10] Speaker: You don't want customers to know, you don't want employees to know specifically, you don't want vendors to know. You don't want competitors to know. You know, ideally you just want a small group of people, and, and we, you know, we screen the, the buyers and they, before they get any substantive information, they have to sign n- non-disclosure agreements.
And we even beef them up to make it a non-solicitation agreement, so they agree for two years, you know, not to, um, look to poach any of the client's employees. So, um, and y- you know, we tr- we tr- tr- people, you know, some people do break the rules and they're, you know, they're, they are subject to being sued if-
[00:28:58] Speaker 2: Well, and I'm sure the company has some, um, very good boundaries around it, just in terms of how they've set up your, set up your AI agents and your system- Mm-hmm
and everything to make- Yeah, yeah ... sure that things are kept confidential. Um, it, so it sounds to me like after all of these years, Don, you're still doing such a great job of, um, embracing innovation in whatever way. I mean, you came from a semiconductor space- Mm-hmm ... so you've always been a, in an innovation type of area.
How do you see innovation playing into things today, whether it's AI or other types of innovation, um, that are helping to lead to success?
[00:29:40] Speaker: What have you that, you know, so AI obviously, you know, is, is the big 100-pound gorilla in the room. Um, you know, you see buyers, you know, using it, um, for their own analysis, you know, of, of the businesses.
Um, buyers a lot more, um, savvy than they were years ago. Um, so, you know, we, um, try to make sure when we bring a business to market, we've, we've done our own due diligence, um, before we go to market to see if there's any issues, warts that we can smooth over before. Um, but you know, I think it's kinda like a, a shark.
You need to be, You need to... Technology and innovation, you need to be moving forward or you might just sink and, and die, so.
[00:30:31] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:30:31] Speaker: You know?
[00:30:32] Speaker 2: Right. Um, and do you see... What do you see with innovation, um, in your, your home services? I mean, we've talked about how they're just, they're not quite there. But do you think the ones who embrace innovation the way that you are, right, do you think they're gonna have some good competitive, um, advantages- Mm
when it comes to buying and selling businesses in the future?
[00:31:00] Speaker: Yeah, I think you know, people wanna know, you know, how is the tech- how... What's the technology in the- What's the tech? Yeah ... in, in the business? Is, is it up to date? What could, what could improve it? If, if you updated the technology, would that improve profit- profitability?
So, you know, I think that's another benefit for o- all the organizations that w- that we belong to. It kinda keeps you, um, appraised of, you know, what's going on in the business world and what, what are the trends, what are the new, um, innovations that are coming out that, you know, we nee- really need to be, to service our customers and clients properly, you know, w- we need to be up to speed on, on new things.
And, and as, as we can, you know. Um, I'm also a certified exit planner. Um, but- There are professionals that probably do a better job of that than I, so if it's someone that has a five to 10-year runway, I'll work with them, but more likely bring in a, um, a specialist in that world. And, um, also, you know, in, in the marketing world, you know, I'd bring in somebody like yourself.
So it's, you know, we like to say, um, that business brokerage, much like exit planning, is a team sport. So it's, um ... Different, um, professions like to think of themselves as the quarterback. So given my profession, we like to think that the q- the business broker is the quarterback that helps, um supervise or organize or, um, arrange the the financial advisor, the business attorney, the estate planner, the, the insurance person, the, the marketing people.
So to, that they're all, you know, have a seat at the table, and aren't, um, you know, isn't 12 voices, you know, advising a, a business owner at the same time. So better if it comes through, if, if I'm not the quarterback, you know, somebody else to be the conduit to get the right information, right knowledge to the business owner a- and also make it as cost-effective as possible.
I don't have people running up fees and-
[00:33:13] Speaker 2: Right ...
[00:33:13] Speaker: and such.
[00:33:15] Speaker 2: So as you know, with Hummingbird Creative Group, we go to market with the concept that branding done well is going to help increase the valuation of a business over time. Um, helping a company create a stronger brand orientation helps them increase leads, um, helps them improve their culture and their recruitment, and in turn should raise the value of the business.
, The hummingbird effect piece of this is the idea that, you know, doing something small in an area of marketing or sales can lead to something like an increased valuation- Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah ... right? Like over time, and have this huge effect on the company that you might not really realize at the time that you're doing it.
Um, so do you see, um, do you see what you're learning right now? Can you envision what you think this, how you think this is going to change the way you approach sales and marketing going forward, and what you've learned from it so far, and how you think you'll put that to work?
[00:34:25] Speaker: Well, you know, in my business, it's- You know, it can be cyc- cyclical and, you know, have, have hills and valleys, but- Mm-hmm
but you learn. Um, um, you know, currently listening to a book on the 50 years of Apple.
[00:34:43] Speaker 2: Mm.
[00:34:43] Speaker: And listening to Steve Jobs and when, you know, the computer internet bust of 2000. You know, he says, "Well, now is when we gear up the marketing 'cause now we-" Right ... "gear up our technology, so when the, when the upturn comes, we're gonna be ready."
[00:35:00] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:35:00] Speaker: And I think that needs to be, you know, in, in my personal business, um, a consistent spend. Um, a consistent investment in my business going forward. You know, regardless of the hills and valleys, you know, it's something you need to spend on your, on your business, and, and, you know, your people. And if, if I have...
If and when I do have people, you know, training your people, bringing them up to speed, and, and helping them achieve, um, you know, higher level of actualization or whatever.
[00:35:33] Speaker 2: I think this idea of consistency, you know, we've talked about consistency in marketing for, forever- Mm-hmm ... um, through the history of marketing, and why consistency, um, is so important.
Um, and I personally believe consistency has become more important now than ever before. Um, and as we're using AI tools, creating those agents the way- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... you're talking about, um, your director has done within the company, um, should help things be a little more consistent rather than- Mm ... the, the individual prompts being done one at a time- Mm.
Yeah ... one at a time, right? I think, I think that's really important, and also I think as technology is changing around us, there's s- it's really hard to not, like, jump from one thing to another trying to figure it out- Mm-hmm ... and figure out how these tools are going to play into the mix. Um, and I think this is a really hard time to be consistent.
Do you agree with me on that? Um- I mean, I think it's good to become conscious of it 'cause I think it's so hard.
[00:36:38] Speaker: Yeah. It, it depends I guess on the size of your organization- Yeah ... and your, your ability to delegate. This is, There's just so, so much going on in, in the, in a business, in the business world that y- that one head c- can't keep it all together.
So-
[00:36:54] Speaker 2: Well, and as you're delegating, though, you've got to delegate it in a way so everyone's on the same page- Right. Yeah ... and that consistency stands. And so then you are talking about how can you use AI to help you kind of manage how the different people might be talking about the company, um, speaking about its value proposition, and things like that so everyone is on the same page.
So I think that's, um, I think that's a piece of advice that I would think through is, um, you know, making sure that you're really using the tools to stay consistent- Mm ... and not using the tools and becoming fragmented- Mm ... 'cause I see a lot of that in marketing from where we're sitting. We love that clients want to try to use tools, but things are starting to look a- and sound a lot more fragmented, and we're trying to help them put some guardrails around that with agents.
Mm. Um, and so what advice would you give other businesses as you're kinda navigating this space right now?
[00:37:57] Speaker: Have your goals, you know be attainable and, you know You need, you need to plan. So in, in my world, um, we talk about exit planning. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, you... When you're sitting down in my old world you know, at the end of the year, and I used to hate that Christmas was at the end of the year because you know, you, if you're on a calendar year, year-end, you know, you're developing business plans, you're developing compensation plans for the new year, and it's, um...
But part of those plans, um, is to, um, yeah, plan your what's, where are you gonna be 10 years from now? What strategies do you need to get you there? Um, what is your technology gonna look like? And, and who's gonna, you know, champion those various pieces of your business? Who's is your finance people, um, is your accountant okay?
Is, have you outgrown your spouse doing, doing the books- ... for the company? Which I see, I see that a lot. Um, it's time to get a controller, a fractional CFO. Is it time to get, um, you know, chief marketing officer? Is it time to get a, um, a part-time or pro forma chief marketing officer like, like yourself? So it's, um, it's about keeping balls in the air and hopefully moving them forward without dropping too many.
[00:39:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, and it sounds, as someone who's embracing technology yourself, it sounds like you are encouraging people to embrace technology and be nimble and adapt with the times, but to always just, like, make sure you've got an intentional plan- Mm-hmm ... and you're being consistent- Mm ... at the same time for success.
[00:39:45] Speaker: And I still struggle with this, but, um, I work with, you know, my, my business coach and, um, you know, trying to put together a schedule so-
[00:39:54] Speaker 2: Mm ...
[00:39:54] Speaker: you know, you know, just get, don't get bogged down and, you know, don't be a fireman all day, you know? Yeah. Don't be putting out solving problems set aside. You know, you, you, you need to be refilling the pipeline.
You need to, you need to do some prospecting or marketing every day. You need to do some deal-making. You need to, you know, cover, cover your bases and make sure they're, you, they're scheduled. And if it's... And try to make up for it if it's if that schedule's not working for you, then, then tweak it till it's something that, that works for you and works for your business.
[00:40:28] Speaker 2: Don, what size business, um, do you tend to come across? And let's talk, um, let's talk revenue, right? Mm-hmm. Um, what's a, what's an ideal deal size for you in terms of the size of the business in terms of revenue?
[00:40:45] Speaker: I would say, um, from 1 million to 10 or 20.
[00:40:51] Speaker 2: Right.
[00:40:51] Speaker: Okay. With most of them, um, my, my engagements being in the 1 through 5 million.
[00:40:56] Speaker 2: Okay.
[00:40:57] Speaker: And I mean- 'Cause that's, that's just kinda, that's, you draw a bell curve of the businesses, that's k- kinda where they are
[00:41:03] Speaker 2: And the reason I ask that is because, you know, you're talking about questions that business owners are asking at a lot of different levels- Mm-hmm ... right? And so you're seeing at that $1 to $5 million level, they need to be thinking about a controller or- Mm-hmm
a CFO kind of person, some kind of centralized marketing- Mm ... communications function. Mm. Um, and I think that's something, I think that's a really great nugget for business owners who may be hitting that 1 million and starting to see they're gonna grow from there, that they really do have to start putting those things in place- Yeah
um, and having some consistency in order to have some consistency.
[00:41:50] Speaker: A, a lot of, a lot of operators can get to from zero to 1 million, but getting from 1 million to 5 million is, um, a whole different skill set, and, and most people hit, hit the ceiling, hit the wall.
[00:42:05] Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and- What, what wall do you think is most common?
Is it like, is it a 1 million or 1.2 and then they're kinda stuck? Or do you see them get to, like, two, and where's the sticking point?
[00:42:17] Speaker: I think a lot of it, what I see is it becomes a, a lifestyle business.
[00:42:22] Speaker 2: Okay.
[00:42:23] Speaker: So they're, maybe when they're 30, 40 they were full of piss and vinegar and looking to take on the world, but now they're 40, 50, maybe 60, and they got a nice- They wanna
[00:42:36] Speaker 2: buy the new car.
[00:42:37] Speaker: They got a nice life. They, they got a house at the beach. They got a nice family. The kids are through school, and you know, they're not necessarily looking to jump on the accelerator.
[00:42:49] Speaker 2: Not as much fire.
[00:42:50] Speaker: But occasionally when we do, um, you know, I always recommend business, doing a business valuation.
Mm. Having an idea where, where you are, um, particularly if you have, um partners. So you definitely wanna have a buy/sell agreement, and you want to have the company valued to understand how much insurance you need to cover on each of the partners in case something does happen. 'Cause I've, I've seen nightmares of where people didn't have buy sells or didn't have them funded by insurance.
Um, dealing with one right now where, um, two partners, 47 years old, and they have a kind of an events business, and one of them passed away and- Mm ... withou- without a will, you know, divorced. He's got minor children. Right. And no buy-sell agreement, and it's k- kind of a mess. So, um, so having that buy-sell agreement and also understanding the valuation and then understanding, you know, what your goal
Is, is that good enough? Or, "Well, Don, you know, 1 million is, is nice, but I'm ... I, I need, I need to get 5 million to, to exit and live comfortably the way I want to." And, you know, basically I could show them on a, on a graph, "All right. So you're, you're generating this much EBITDA," which is, you know, rated at, you know, people are gonna pay you X number of
a multiple of X on that level of EBI- EBITDA. To get to, um, $5 million valuation, you're gonna need a whole lot more EBITDA, which ... Although at that level, your, your multiplier is gonna go up. So I can help you with the process, but more likely I'll be referral, referring maybe a sales, um, accelerator for you mm, or, um, or maybe, yeah, some
a consultant or a business coach to, to help you get to the next level.
[00:44:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:44:53] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:44:54] Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, kudos to you for embracing technology and staying innovative for your own business. Um, love to hear that you're doing that. Mm-hmm. And, um, I heard great things about that, um, XPX workshop. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, that I was, um, out of town that week.
Right. So I hate I missed it, but I'm so glad it's making an impact. It's neat to, um, work with, um, other professionals that network in some of the same places- Mm-hmm ... that I do and see them really embracing what they learn- Mm-hmm ... and, and taking things where they need to go in their businesses. Is there anything else you want to share with us today?
[00:45:32] Speaker: Live every day to the fullest. I, I like to s- um, big music fan, so um, um, I like off the beaten path music of, of Warren, the late, great Warren Zevon. Mm-hmm. Who, when he found out he was had terminal cancer, on The David Letterman Show, he said "Enjoy every sandwich."
[00:45:55] Speaker 2: So. Awesome.
[00:45:56] Speaker: And if, and also if, you know, you're thinking about a negative strategy, um Run your business like you're gonna run it forever.
Some people, um, you know, s- start to think about exit and they take their eye off the ball and they mentally go to the beach, and that's gonna hurt their valuation,
[00:46:19] Speaker 2: so. So share all of your contact information with our listeners please. So, Okay ... or at a, a high level, and we'll make sure there's some show notes too.
Okay.
[00:46:28] Speaker: Oh, okay. Well, you can find me on LinkedIn, Don or Donald. I think I'm Donald Emmett on LinkedIn. Okay. Murphy Business Sales, and you can find me on Google my business as Don Emmett, Murphy Business Sales of Raleigh. My main phone number is 919-881-9997. You can reach me on my cell at 919-257-0108 And my email is the classic Murphy email.
It is my first initial, D for Donald, dot my last name Emmett, E-M-M-E-T-T, @murphybusiness.com.
[00:47:12] Speaker 2: Awesome. And you use that voice. Yeah. So I'm gonna go back to the fun fact.
[00:47:16] Speaker: Okay.
[00:47:18] Speaker 2: Talk to us a little bit about DJing.
[00:47:22] Speaker: Okay.
[00:47:24] Speaker 2: So, so- The
[00:47:24] Speaker: other- So- ...
[00:47:25] Speaker 2: the other side of Don.
[00:47:28] Speaker: So, quick, quick. So I w- so part of the business brokerage, like I said, was finding businesses.
So I actually got into the pool service business. Okay. Hot tubs and pool maintenance. And the business was originally based in the Triad, and we were looking to bring it to, um, the Triangle. And, um, my wife and I, we'd gone to see a show at the the, the arts center in, in Carrboro. And as we were walking out, there's a, there's a little radio station, WCOM.
You go, "Oh, look at that." And I'm a big, you know, NPR fan and pu- public radio, and these are, um, 100-watt radio stations that they're... There's one in Hillsborough, and they're, they're the government has set up these, um, airwaves for the public to have access to their public airwaves. So I, you know, l- 103.5 on your, on your radio dial.
And I, um, you know, so there, there was, there was sponsorships and, you know, I'm familiar with sponsorships on you know, W, you know, WUNC and such. Right. And so I sent them an email. I said, "Well, I'm in- interested in learning more about, you know, sponsorships or, and and perhaps volunteering. I'm a, I'm a big music fan."
So they came back to me and said, "Sure, why don't you come in and talk to us? Um, maybe, um..." They go, "Would you like to do a show?" I said, "Do a show?" "What do you mean do a show? I can't do a show." And they said, "Oh, sure you can." And so thought about it, and eventually I didn't want me playing rock and roll music to interfere with my professional reputation, so I assumed the character of The Doctor of Rock and Roll.
And The Doctor went on the air at 11:00 Saturday nights. Which fortunately the, um, the station does stream, so you, so you could hear it on the internet, but, um, the outer boundary of Chapel Hill not so much.
[00:49:35] Speaker 2: Okay.
[00:49:36] Speaker: And then I found out, um, having picked the 11:00 Saturday night time slot, 'cause I didn't want it to interfere with family life or business, that pretty much my entire target demographic was in bed by that time.
So the run- the running gag with my, my wife was she goes, "Well, how was your show tonight?" I go, "Well, I think my listener liked it."
[00:50:02] Speaker 2: Your listener. So, um, favorite artist, song to play on the station?
[00:50:12] Speaker: Oh, my, my intro was the Doctor of Rock 'n Roll, Rock 'n Roll Doctor by Little Feat. But one of my favorite songs, I'm a big Steely Dan fan, would be Whatever World I'm Welcome to.
[00:50:24] Speaker 2: Nice. Nice.
[00:50:27] Speaker: Off the Katy Lied album.
[00:50:32] Speaker 2: Nice. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. Well- This has been fun ... it was
[00:50:36] Speaker: fun. Thank you so much for having me. I,
[00:50:36] Speaker 2: I love learning a little bit more every time we get together. Mm-hmm. Um, and thank you to the listeners. Thank you. Um, we hope you enjoyed the show with Don today, and go out and find your hummingbird effect.
[00:50:47] Speaker: And, and subscribe to Wendy's channel.
[00:50:51] Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to the Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter. We hope you found this episode valuable. Please be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. To learn more or to work with Wendy and her team, go to hummingbird-creative.com.