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Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative helping Christians to faithfully live out their faith in their work. We recognize most of life is not lived in black and white but rather lived in the gray, lived in the nuance.
You can find more, including complementary spiritual exercises, at www.collaborativeorlando.com/nuance.
Case Thorp (00:02.119)
I want you to imagine a huge plaza, maybe one in Italy, maybe it's Union Square in New York City. So on the storefront sign over on one side, you see the name Trinity Family Builders. You go inside this storefront and there you find three brothers, the Oroz brothers, who are some of the premier home builders in central Florida. So friends, that's our focus for this episode of Nuance, Pursuing Faith in the Public Square, particular to construction.
in that massive industry. I'm Case Thorpe, principal with The Collaborative, and today I've got Steve Oroz as our guest. Steve, thanks for being with us, man.
Steve (00:41.964)
Thanks for that introduction.
Case Thorp (00:44.615)
Well, I appreciate it for our listeners to know me and Steve and I have been good friends. My goodness. What? 10 years? Yeah, it's been quite a while and seeing our kids grow up together and I can tell you Steve's a good man. Well, I want to welcome you our listening guests and maybe you're viewing on our channel on YouTube, wherever you are, please like and subscribe, share this. It really helps us to grow our audience. Now I've shared recently, it's a new day for the collaborative. We're
Steve (00:50.668)
10 years, yes.
Case Thorp (01:14.151)
We're widening our focus from just faith and work to more impact in the public square and in culture. So nuance is this rhythm of bi -weekly guests on topics in our world and where they integrate with faith. And then we've got this great new little 10 minute episode for spiritual formation called Formed for Faithfulness. So it follows the Christian calendar and is related to our work and labor in the world. So check that out.
Well, Steve, I do appreciate you getting to be with us today. I want listeners to know a little bit more about you. So Steve is a third generation in the home building industry. Uh, over those years from great grandfather, no, no grandfather to dad, to you, uh, involved with such businesses or even started such businesses from Catalina homes, Cambridge homes, Royal Oak homes, Hanover family builders, and now Trinity family builders.
Steve (01:57.324)
Grandfather?
Case Thorp (02:11.847)
Royal Oak earned the coveted titles of 2014 and 2015 fastest growing home builder in the nation by Builder Magazine. Dude, how did you keep up? That's a lot. He's a managing partner with Hanover Capital Partners. The Oro's Family Foundation also is a very generous beacon of philanthropy in our community, having contributed over 15 million to various initiatives in the realms of education.
medical research and the arts. Steve has a wonderful wife, Helen. In fact, I mean, Steve, you know this, like Helen was a single young adult here at First Presbyterian Church many years ago.
Steve (02:53.452)
That's why she was so attractive to me.
Case Thorp (02:56.039)
And then you came along and swept her off her feet. They have four children ranging in ages from eight to 11. I have that right? Dude. Like the fact you have four, but the fact that they are concentrated in such a wonderful season of life, I guess. Max, Miles, Dylan, and Levi. He attended Villanova in Philadelphia and has a master's in accounting from University of Central Florida.
Steve (03:05.868)
That's right, yeah, 899 and 11.
Case Thorp (03:27.143)
Well, I love that you're a dad and you obviously have a joy in your smile when it comes to being a dad. How are the kids doing and how do you manage that crazy chaos?
Steve (03:39.052)
It's great actually. We adopted two children from China in 2018 and 2019. One is eight and one is nine. And that has been probably the biggest joy for our family. Probably the most rewarding experience Helen and I have ever had watching them grow and just watching them become educated and learn English and then...
It's just been wonderful, but having kids so close in age is awesome because they can play all the time with each other. So it's like having three or four friends at all times. But we love big families, love big families.
Case Thorp (04:15.079)
Good point. Good point.
Case Thorp (04:21.575)
Yeah. Well, I'll never forget when you were, um, and I believe it was your former home. Jody was over there, my wife one day and she came home and said, Helen has white couches. Why on earth? Oh my goodness. How exhausting that must be for Helen to have all those kids and white couches. So it works. Well, I do want to get to the more serious topics, but just off the bat, I was looking over your website, uh,
Steve (04:40.716)
Scotchgard, Scotchgard, yep.
Steve (04:49.868)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (04:50.919)
Trinity. Tell us the truth with the website.
Steve (04:53.356)
Yeah, trinityfamilybuilders .com. So that's our newest iteration of home building.
Case Thorp (04:58.663)
So we'll have that in the show notes for you, but I was going through some of the available homes and I just got to know like, how do you name the streets? What does that look like?
Steve (05:06.028)
So streets are interesting. We're allowed to submit street names just to the counties that they can deny. We normally go off, yeah, we go off themes. It's funny actually, one time we had someone go a candy theme and they did Peppermint Avenue, Butterscotch Lane, we quickly rejected that. However, we often pay tribute to people in our lives. For instance, one community.
Case Thorp (05:14.759)
Oh, they get to approve.
Case Thorp (05:23.719)
Uh.
Case Thorp (05:32.935)
Yeah.
Steve (05:34.412)
We named every street name after my grandfather, just little nits about my grandfather. And so awesome, you know, have the opportunity to pay heritage to certain people in that regard. So some of them are, you know, no one would ever recognize that why something's named the way it is, but there's a method to it all.
Case Thorp (05:41.159)
That's cool.
Case Thorp (05:52.999)
Yeah. Okay. Well, success way, you had a number of homes on success way, but then glass onion drive. Is that like after the movie?
Steve (06:04.748)
That one was a subdivision we bought. So we didn't have, that was already there. Yes, yes. That was already there.
Case Thorp (06:08.455)
Ah, okay. Are there streets named after your kids?
Steve (06:14.54)
We have all the floor plans are named after the kids like Maxwell, Miles, yeah, the Dylan, all that.
Case Thorp (06:18.375)
Ah, okay. Okay, what do I have to do to get a case avenue?
Steve (06:23.756)
We'll put one in when do you want it next year? We'll have it done for you for sure.
Case Thorp (06:27.207)
Well, you tell me and I want to go do a big ribbon cutting and get lots of pictures for social media.
Steve (06:33.356)
I mean, Kastorp Avenue actually sounds really regal, so I think that would work well.
Case Thorp (06:36.839)
You know, you know, well, there's Avenue, but like Plaza or Terrace. Ooh, Thorpe Terrace. That'd be kind of cool. That'd be kind of cool. Ah, yeah, that'd be fun. Is there, I'm sure there's an Oro Street.
Steve (06:44.51)
Okay, Dorp Terrace, Swanson Lane, it's all very doable. Yep.
Uh, there is not, there's not. No, no, we have not enough. Thank you.
Case Thorp (06:55.815)
Oh, how humble of you.
Well, tell us about your career in home building. And first and foremost, like since it's such a family affair and built into your DNA, was it sort of inevitable or did you even consider going another route?
Steve (07:15.66)
Uh, actually is interesting. Uh, my father had a company in the nineties, um, which is when we were, when I was coming out of college in early 2000 and he would not hire me. Uh, so his, his whole premise was go out in the world, um, find out how they do things and then, then we'll talk. So I started in, in public accounting and actually at one point transitioned to the Philadelphia Eagles and worked in their accounting department.
Case Thorp (07:28.871)
Oh.
Case Thorp (07:45.447)
Cool. That's cool.
Steve (07:45.484)
which if you know Philadelphia, that was actually like a really big deal to work for that sports team. But didn't get into home building until about 10 years after college. So it was good to get that other experience and bring that to the home building industry. So no, he was not supportive of joining the family business right away.
Case Thorp (07:49.927)
Yeah. Yeah.
Case Thorp (07:57.863)
Okay.
Case Thorp (08:02.759)
Now did he?
Case Thorp (08:07.239)
Did he make your other two brothers do that?
Steve (08:08.972)
Same, they both were in industry as well before coming into the business. So in particular, my brother Andrew, who's an attorney, it was interesting, my father kind of said, I don't want a first year attorney working for me, which kind of makes sense. So Andrew actually didn't, Andrew had about 12 years of law experience before he came into the business, which has been a hundred percent beneficial.
Case Thorp (08:23.655)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (08:33.479)
That really does make sense as I think about other families I know that have such involvement now in the family business. I guess looking back on it, you would agree, would you suggest this to your kids?
Steve (08:48.62)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, it's, you need more perspective than just one company your entire life. And, and you need to experience different bosses and different management styles and you can pick off what's the best, but I, I would, I firmly thought, I think that's the best way to go. So just learn so much prior to even coming into the family business that, that, you know, help shape and mold me.
Case Thorp (08:55.143)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (09:05.767)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (09:12.359)
I have a cousin in North Carolina who now leads the family business, but he did the same and was actually here in Orlando for a season working with trained air conditioners and it was good to be with him. But his family had said the same thing, go get some experience and come back. Well, tell me what are some of the challenges of and then blessings of course, but start with challenges of being in a family business.
Steve (09:18.412)
Hmm.
Steve (09:23.34)
Yeah.
Steve (09:38.86)
Well, I'm very fortunate in that we all get along really well and we actually all live close to each other. I've heard the horror stories and experienced some of them from afar. And that's actually helped shape our company because the brothers know that we're better together than we are individually. And in that regard, we have different skill sets. Andrew's an attorney, Matt's a
Case Thorp (09:43.719)
Mm.
Case Thorp (10:02.247)
Mm -hmm.
Steve (10:06.924)
sales and marketing, deal guy, land guy, and I'm more on the finance side. So coming together, we're stronger as a group. And so we've, I mean, of course we've all had issues in this and that, but we realized for the greater good, we're definitely better as a team. And that's been really helpful.
Case Thorp (10:13.223)
Okay.
Case Thorp (10:17.958)
Mm.
Case Thorp (10:31.655)
Are there other siblings not in the family business?
Steve (10:33.836)
No, it's just the three brothers, three brothers. And then the next lineage is there's 10 kids, there's 10 grandkids. And we've already started talking and internalizing how that might work because that third or fourth generation typically is a little more challenging. So it's top of mind already, even though the kids are 13 years old and under, it's still top of mind.
Case Thorp (10:56.391)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. So for somebody listening who may be in a similar situation, what encouragement would you give them perhaps to avoid some of the challenges that happen?
Steve (11:08.588)
I mean, I think it can be hard and it can get away from you. One of the biggest things is money is not everything. And that's important. A lot of the issues that we've seen have spawned from money, compensation, those types of issues, which I think they are important, yes, but that does drive maybe some of the moral character that there's a greater good there. And family is the most important thing of anything. So...
Case Thorp (11:15.559)
Mm.
Case Thorp (11:31.143)
Hmm.
Steve (11:40.748)
I think you treat your family with respect and honor and times that we've had tough times, at the end of the day we realize that we are a family and our family life is more important than any business out there.
Case Thorp (11:57.095)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and you and I have talked about your strong Roman Catholic upbringing, and now you're in more of the Protestant world, but I think that's a real benefit from that background, the importance of family. And it sounds like your mom and dad did a good job of instilling that in y 'all.
Steve (12:15.052)
Oh, for sure. Yeah. We were, we were that family that went to church. Um, every Sunday we were always in church together and always ate dinner together. And that was, I mean, those values were huge at the time you didn't realize it. And now looking back, it's like, that was, that was a great, great period of time.
Case Thorp (12:33.031)
We're going to come back to Faith, but give us more of a sense of your company, the sort of product you all provide, and how that may have evolved over the years in home building.
Steve (12:42.988)
Sure. Yeah. So our business has always been in central Florida. We've been a land development company first, so land acquisition and development. And then home building has always been a byproduct of that, but it's, it's always been really important to have an operating company in case there's an issue with the land or, or any type of downturn and so forth that you could sort of build out of your, um, your land. But that being said, uh, home building is a, it's a wonderful needed industry. Uh, can be challenging.
And, you know, as you know, that in any house, there's 35 different subcontractors that come together to build something special. And it's often someone's largest purchase that they ever make. So you want to make sure that it's a, that it's a, a well -built home and a great experience. And we've been able to consistently deliver that, um, between the, between the three of us, it's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 ,000 homes plus since we got started.
Case Thorp (13:18.439)
Mm.
Case Thorp (13:29.287)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (13:40.167)
Wow. Yeah.
Steve (13:41.996)
And I'd say of the 10 ,000, we've only had three or four problems and been able to mitigate that. But our Christian faith really drives how we treat the customer. And that's not just rhetoric. I mean, if there's a problem, even if we're building seven, 800 homes a year, if there's a problem, I will be there instantly. We will make time. So.
Case Thorp (13:48.487)
Hmm. Hmm.
Case Thorp (14:05.543)
Yeah, yeah.
you'll do right by them. Now, maybe this was an earlier company of yours, but aren't I correct that you shoot for those first time home buyers or entry level individuals, particularly out on the other side of Disney where there's just so much incredible growth?
Steve (14:09.676)
You're right.
Steve (14:24.908)
That's right. We've typically built in the perimeter of Orlando. So nothing, you would never see us downtown or, you know, sexy infill projects or anything like that. It's been in the growth corridors and fortunately we picked the right growth corridors. Looking back at some of the stuff we bought 10, 15 years ago, it was just farmland and now it's, there's a Publix on the corner and you know, so yeah, in the perimeter of Orlando.
Case Thorp (14:52.327)
Yeah, yeah. Maybe you have a better statistic, but last I heard 1500 people a week are moving into central Florida. Does that sound about right?
Steve (15:01.068)
That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. And it's been consistent. Yes. So our goal is to take our ultimate goal is to take a 5 % market share of those folks that buy new homes, which there's a percentage associated with of the 1500, how many buy, you know, the used homes and how many buy our homes. So 5 % market share. That's our goal.
Case Thorp (15:11.175)
Okay.
Case Thorp (15:20.999)
Now,
We hear so much about housing shortage, even in a lot of parts of the country, but even in central Florida and the skyrocketing cost of rents and houses. I just look at how much my house has appreciated and I think, oh my goodness, it is not worth it. I might feel a little guilty selling it for that. Well, what's your take on the current market and where are we headed?
Steve (15:40.972)
Mm -hmm. No, it is worth that. It is worth that.
Steve (15:48.3)
Yeah, it's tough. So there's kind of a tale of two stories in some parts of the country. They are struggling a little bit with you're seeing some house prices fall while costs are still high. But in this market, it's just the growth has been phenomenal. And we think it will continue to be that way. It's unfortunate how much costs have gone up and they're here to stay. And at the same time, the inflation has pushed things 20, 30 percent higher than they were pre pandemic.
Uh, affordable housing is, it doesn't exist anymore. And it's something that we have tried very, very hard to maintain an entry level price point. Cause we do believe in the, in the first time home buyer and wanted to provide a product for them to live in as well. Um, and just, we've been unsuccessful in delivering a home under, under $300 ,000. Um,
Case Thorp (16:18.535)
Wow.
Case Thorp (16:29.465)
Mm.
Steve (16:42.54)
So I'll give you an example, townhomes in Groveland were going for $195 ,000 10 years ago, and now they're $400 ,000. And it's just, that's the cheapest that we can build them. So that part's unfortunate.
Case Thorp (16:51.175)
Wow, wow.
Yeah.
Now, you say y 'all have worked very, very hard. Give us an example or a specific of where you tried and maybe where it didn't work or where you are able to then keep costs as affordable as possible.
Steve (17:11.02)
Sure. I mean, there are a number of standard features in the home that we want to deliver a very quality product. And I can get real granular if you want, but stuff like marble windowsills or pavers or the countertops in the secondary bathroom and so forth. And people want all those things as well. So they want a affordable house, but they also want to be very nice on the inside. So there's that trade -off, but there's also a level of quality that we
Case Thorp (17:21.799)
Yeah, yeah.
Steve (17:40.588)
we strive to deliver. It's tough to be there are there are a couple of builders in town that are the lowest price guy and it's tough to be the second lowest price guy. So there has to be some differentiation out there, you know. So we want the product to be something we put our name on and also be as affordable as possible. But cutting out a lot of that stuff, you'll save three or four thousand dollars and it just won't look as nice as it should.
Case Thorp (17:42.727)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (17:52.903)
Yeah.
Case Thorp (17:57.255)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (18:05.817)
And it's not significant. You're not cutting out $50 ,000 to $75 ,000 for cosmetics. Yeah.
Steve (18:10.7)
No, no, not possible. Not possible. We're already value engineered enough.
Case Thorp (18:16.583)
Somebody years ago once said to me, you get, there's three things to think about on a house. You get square footage, location or quality, pick two.
Steve (18:27.212)
pick two. That's right. I agree with that. I agree with that.
Case Thorp (18:29.159)
Well, we always, as you know, wanted to be close to the church as a pastor. I knew I'd have a lot of late night meetings and so we sacrificed a lot of times on square footage and quality even because the churches I've served have been in urban cores. But, you know, like you said, family's far more important than money and square footage. We're at a great house now and I'm very thankful.
Well, give us a sense of your faith journey. And I guess I don't know if it's a divide between childhood and adulthood, but just tell us about that.
Steve (19:01.772)
Sure.
Steve (19:08.46)
Yeah, I was fortunate to go to school in a religious environment, Villanova University, kind of a Catholic school. And it's crazy to think church on Sundays for the students was at 6 p .m., 8 p .m. and 10 p .m. And the crazy thing is I would always go to the 10 p .m. mass. They call it the last chance mass. But.
Case Thorp (19:32.967)
Ha ha ha.
Steve (19:34.124)
10 p .m. So that does solidify my faith journey was strong, I think, to be going to church at 10 p .m. at night. No, it wasn't required, but it was really awesome. It was a student run mass, really, really awesome. So I was, if you want to call it devout, I was very devout through college and then maintain that for several years. And then, of course, you go through that
Case Thorp (19:41.511)
And was mass required?
Case Thorp (19:46.471)
Yeah.
Steve (20:04.012)
journey in your 20s of challenging things and, you know, church shopping and all that kind of stuff, trying to find a home, trying to figure out things on your own. And then when I met Helen, she was at First Pres and definitely fell in love with that church and the leadership there, of course. And then my kids now are in Catholic school. So there's that balance between teaching them Catholic values, going through the sacraments.
and they're in church every week at a minimum through school. So it's great. So Catholic upbringing, Catholic values, it stayed with me.
Case Thorp (20:38.599)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (20:46.535)
sure. And you've shared with me just some of your moments with the Lord, some of your spiritual insights and growth along the way in Christ. Could you speak to that?
Steve (20:58.22)
Yeah, I think it's well for me it's it's been an evolution a lot of what I've learned has been group learning. I don't have a library like you have behind you and by no means as well read as you are, but I've.
Case Thorp (21:12.999)
Well, and I'll tell you, somebody once said, have you read all of those? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I collect them just to look smart.
Steve (21:18.316)
That's not true at all. From what I know, you're the most brilliant guy I know. I've learned a lot more as a group than I have individually. And the Bible studies that I've had with other guys and the men's groups I've had, they've been the most valuable to me. Hearing even other people's struggles and how they've resolved them and how their faith has been strong, I think that has helped me in many, many ways.
Case Thorp (21:23.367)
step.
Case Thorp (21:29.639)
Mm.
Case Thorp (21:36.903)
Mm.
Steve (21:47.468)
you can't find individuals.
Case Thorp (21:49.799)
Mm -hmm. For sure. Group processing and engagement with the scripture is so helpful because you sort of get that real -time application. And particularly if you're with either other men or women or couples or any type of group that are very much like you and you have great affinity, I'm sure you've heard many men process
a scripture or their faith with their work situation. And you have a Bible study at your workplace.
Steve (22:25.932)
We, not currently, but we did. And we, so I went through the biblical entrepreneurship program at First Brez, which that was just, that was one of the most valuable experiences I've ever had. And then Glenn Ripple taught a class here locally at our business. At the time we had 65 employees. It was completely optional and over 50 came.
Case Thorp (22:33.831)
Yeah. Yeah.
Case Thorp (22:40.839)
Mm.
Case Thorp (22:47.303)
Yeah.
Steve (22:55.436)
to that, which was just amazing, amazing. But at the current moment, we don't. We'd really like to get back into that. I think folks here at work are often afraid to share their faith. And if you can show that it's a safe place, you find that people are more willing to share.
Case Thorp (22:56.103)
Oh wow.
Case Thorp (23:01.383)
That's great.
Case Thorp (23:13.671)
Yeah.
Steve (23:22.476)
their beliefs and that they're Christian and that they have Christian values. And so we try and make that possible here.
Case Thorp (23:25.991)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (23:30.343)
Well, a buddy of mine asked me to come and do a faith and work seminar for his employees. And we're reading Tim Keller's Every Good Endeavor together. And I go every two weeks during the lunch hour and teach on this. And he sought my advice and we talked about it. And he was very clear, hey, I'm a Christian and we have Christian values at work here. Everybody knows I'm a Christian, but you know, we don't only hire Christians and there's no pressure.
Steve (23:39.436)
Very nice.
Case Thorp (23:58.983)
in terms of your employment success and your faith commitments. And so he let it be known, everybody was welcome, free lunch. And if you want to come, great. If not, no worries. And I would say probably about three fourths, kind of like what you said, have come and been interested. Talk to some of our other business owners, perhaps, who may entertain such an idea. How did y 'all go about deciding to do this and what was sort of the vibe and the word you had to your employees?
Steve (24:06.444)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve (24:11.948)
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Steve (24:27.116)
Yeah, I think there's a trepidation initially because there's always this fear that if you're pushing some sort of Christian agenda that people will feel uncomfortable. And that, my experience is that that couldn't be any more wrong. I think folks are excited to know that you're Christian and that you share these beliefs that you can take in the workplace and...
It helps how you treat other people in the real world. In fact, we had one time I had a homeowner that was yelling at me over the phone. It doesn't happen that often, but every so often. And I stopped and asked if they were a Christian. And they said, yes. And I said, then why are you yelling at me then? I don't understand. And it changed the whole tone of the conversation. I think it was just a reminder to them, like, wow, you know, we can get things done in a...
Case Thorp (25:00.551)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (25:12.295)
Mm.
Case Thorp (25:20.327)
Wow.
Steve (25:25.324)
a Christian like manner, Christ like manner, and it will be much easier to do it that way. But we don't have to be nasty. But the point is, if you're offering up that safe space and setting the example, I don't see why there would be a reluctance to do anything like that. Yeah, sure.
Case Thorp (25:30.791)
We don't have to be nasty.
Case Thorp (25:43.655)
Well, I've heard reluctance in the HR side of things, the worry of, oh, is this legal? And will I get sued later on? Can you? What do you see there?
Steve (25:57.58)
I, to me, if that's the case, then by all means, let it happen. Let it, let us get sued for something like that because as long as these types of, these types of interactions are, they're open to all faith beliefs and, and there's no pressure or it's not mandatory. So I think it's important to do what you believe in spite of some of that stuff.
Case Thorp (26:21.479)
Sure. Well, in this workplace seminar I'm leading, there's one individual who was wonderfully open and said to me, I'm not a Christian, but I'm curious about all this stuff. And so if I have some strange questions, please excuse me. And I said, oh no, no, no, there's no dumb questions. And she's even come up afterwards and asked me follow -up questions. And I love it. And they are very, very basic ones.
Cause I live in this world and full of jargon and I'll throw something out, assuming everybody in the room may be tracking with me, particularly those that were raised in the church or no scripture. And it's been a refreshing thing for me to engage with someone who really just doesn't have the worldview or the concepts and are hungry and walking through those.
Steve (27:10.476)
We've had some meetings that we that we've offered up, you know to open in prayer and There was one instance a woman Very very wonderful woman. She volunteered and it was about a three or four minute prayer It was the most beautiful prayer we'd ever heard and it really to this day Everyone still remembers her they everyone remembers it her name is Sylvie. Everyone remembers that prayer and then that was it was just a really special time and
Case Thorp (27:28.007)
Hmm.
Case Thorp (27:35.207)
Hmm.
Case Thorp (27:39.527)
Mm -hmm.
Steve (27:40.716)
It was, it's so the power of prayer, right?
Case Thorp (27:44.455)
And how important this is because with church attendance and decline and imagining you've got a percentage that may call themselves Christian but aren't active in growing in their faith and this is an outlet or a way to commune with the Lord and grow in discipleship that they're not getting on a Sunday.
Steve (28:01.932)
Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity to lead by example and I think you have to take as many of those as you can.
Case Thorp (28:08.423)
You mentioned biblical entrepreneurship. It's a fantastic program. We led it when the collaborative was under the first press Orlando umbrella and it comes out of a ministry in Portland, Oregon, as you know, Steve called the Nehemiah project and Patrice Sage, the leader of the Nehemiah project is just a fascinating, charismatic Cameroonian that does great, great work in this arena. In fact, I'll throw in a link to the Nehemiah project in
biblical entrepreneurship in the show notes. BE for short is a three -part series that unpacks the free market principles of Scripture. And we put probably a hundred or so professionals through it here years ago. There's a BE youth version that's sort of a business workshop and competition. And then we heard our partners in a church in Madagascar, the denomination of Madagascar.
and they wanted jobs, they needed jobs and training. And so probably a thousand or so in Madagascar went through BE. So I would commend it to our listeners as it levels one and two are more helpful for those who are in the action. And then level three is more for the entrepreneur who is starting a new business or revising a business plan. What Steve in BE shaped you or enlightened you?
What changed perhaps from that experience?
Steve (29:38.764)
Yeah, dramatic opportunity really not knowing it, but I, this was in my, in my early thirties going through this, didn't realize that faith and work could come together and kind of felt like the two were separate and that prophet was, you know, you'd always felt like prophet might be bad in the eyes of faith and that you're supposed to give everything away and so forth. And, um,
Case Thorp (29:50.855)
Hmm.
Steve (30:07.372)
but the two can work together that profit is good and profit can be used for other good causes. But I think that bringing together that faith and work component was huge for the way that our businesses grow and grow and grew, yes.
Case Thorp (30:25.447)
There's that divide, sadly, in our culture, but in a lot of churches where people think there's no connection between Sunday and Monday. Or they think, oh, I've got my secular life, my education, my job. And then, sadly, because of the Enlightenment, in fact, that intellectual movement through the 17 and 1800s, we're kind of told in our culture that faith is a private thing for the home and the family that's just about morals. And...
Steve (30:31.788)
Mm -hmm, that's right.
Case Thorp (30:53.351)
No, the conviction of the collaborative and the work of nuance is to bring that to a bigger worldview and understand that the two can and should be deeply integrated.
Steve (31:04.556)
That's right. And it comes down to interaction with customers and just that our team has these Christian values that they, you don't have to out release say you're Christian, but you operate in a fundamental method that would be Christ -like and that drives everything. I mean, it really does.
Case Thorp (31:23.015)
A prime example, and I want you to speak to your particular industry of home building. An example that I find most enlightening to folks is they realize, oh, following Jesus doesn't just mean don't lie and don't cheat my personal morals, but thinking on the larger scale of, oh, okay, the way in which the home business industry develops or not impacts the common good, our social fabric.
And so you've mentioned a couple of times, I mean, a quality product, not necessarily a fancy one or an expensive one. How does the business industry and in what ways are they a value add or hurting the common good?
Steve (32:07.404)
We look at it, so a home, the home that we build would be a home that I would want to live in for absolute sure. The beauty of home building and I think why everyone works with us is because you see the finished product, you see the neighborhood and you see people that are out walking their dogs and you see all the community events and to me that's exciting to take a piece of dirt and build a community out of it.
And then from there, there becomes community engagement. That's something that you start, but they end up taking it to the next level. By they, I mean the residents. That's probably the most exciting part of my career is watching these neighborhoods flourish. And that's true. It is.
Case Thorp (32:47.431)
Hmm.
And the design makes a difference. How do you design for flourishing community?
Steve (32:55.532)
It just depends on the scale, but the amenity that we provide, there's a lot of thought that goes into that as far as community gathering, opportunities to meet, opportunities to make friends, the type of events that are held there. And then over time, we've upsized a lot of these amenities to provide more spaces for gathering. So Trinity Lakes, it's a community out in Groveland. Yeah, I can send you the link.
Case Thorp (33:17.543)
An example would be.
Case Thorp (33:22.919)
But well, but more than just the overall community, what would be some of the elements in that community that promote being together?
Steve (33:30.54)
Sure, yeah. Ice cream socials, all the holiday parties, game night, just opportunities for people to engage.
Case Thorp (33:42.343)
But you're providing the space to do that. Yeah. The lawns, the parks. I once lived in a older part of Orlando that now is more up and coming with some new construction. But I was there when the city council passed a rule that required any new builds in that neighborhood had to have front porches. And I was so glad for that because...
Steve (33:44.268)
For sure, yeah, for sure.
Steve (34:05.516)
Hmm.
Case Thorp (34:09.799)
So many unfortunate and ugly structures have been thrown up that were cheap and quick and they didn't have porches and the way in which a front porch promotes neighborliness and interaction.
Steve (34:15.404)
Right.
Steve (34:21.804)
Mm -hmm. We always joke about that in Florida though, the front porch is the place where you can sit in the 90 degree heat and watch your kids play in the street.
Case Thorp (34:28.391)
Yeah, yeah. So think about, I don't know if they would be competitors or just some of your peers in the industry. And what are some shortcuts or cheats or where greed becomes so great that they are actually hurting the common good through their home building?
Steve (34:48.972)
Yeah, and I won't name any names, but the unfortunate part about public companies versus private is the fact that they're always required to grow and that they need a certain number of unit counts and that when, say, they have a year end of 1231, these houses have to be completed by that day. And they're oftentimes not finished or they force folks to move in when a house isn't fully complete. Like that happens in the industry. It's not the norm, but it happens.
And that to me is really disappointing. But we don't operate under that mantra. However many homes we build in a year is however many homes we build. If it's not ready, there's no way we would force anyone to move in. So it's just sometimes a different mentality.
Case Thorp (35:35.047)
Would you go so far as to say home building should not be done by publicly held companies?
Steve (35:45.996)
I can't go that far. But no, there's a lot of benefit to public companies providing plenty of opportunity for people to have new homes. So there's a great and it's unfortunate some of that happens. They call it slamming them in, but it is the reality of the business. But no, I think in general, public companies are wonderful for the communities that they build.
Case Thorp (35:48.327)
Yeah. Yeah.
Case Thorp (35:55.399)
Yeah.
Case Thorp (36:04.039)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (36:09.702)
because they do bring the scale that can then lessen perhaps the profit margin and be able to build even cheaper, more affordable housing.
Steve (36:12.14)
That's right.
Steve (36:18.22)
That's exactly correct. Yeah. Yeah. There's an absolute need for that.
Case Thorp (36:22.919)
Uh, I struggled when, uh, watching and recognizing perhaps a company like BlackRock and other massive investment groups that come in and buy homes for the sake of being in the rental market and the, the way in which, uh, if you're not a local landlord, you care less about the house and the neighborhood and improvements in quality. And I too, uh, by my political and.
social convictions wouldn't want to outlaw such a thing. But wow, I struggle with some of the shortcomings of that sort of model.
Steve (36:58.732)
Yeah, and the concern there is that the homes are accumulated and then at some point will be sold in a liquidity event for the fund, releasing thousands of homes into the marketplace and how that will affect the resale markets. And so it's the reality. We don't know when it'll happen, but there's a possibility for that too.
Case Thorp (37:14.599)
Mm.
Case Thorp (37:18.727)
And I want smart, wise Christians in the midst of those conversations. One of the things I appreciated about biblical entrepreneurship is it didn't push communism and it didn't push solely capitalism. Now, certainly the conviction is there are free market principles in Scripture and that capitalism is one of the greatest things to ever lift billions of people out of poverty, but it kind of
creates a third way of compassionate capitalism or concerned capitalism where there's an honest reflection on the extremes and the shortcomings that come from it, child labor, like you say, did you say slamming up houses? Yeah, but that's part of our passion and drive at the collaborative is that there are high level decision -making professionals who have a deeply integrated faith. And so,
Steve (38:02.572)
slamming in houses, yeah.
Case Thorp (38:17.479)
They are able to exercise wisdom in those moments to care more about than just the bottom line. Now, I also speak to impact investors, one particularly who really worked for years on the affordable housing side with just a deep conviction. And he got so frustrated with red tape and that governments will have grants and programs, et cetera. But he said, case, I finally just give up because they're not based in reality.
and the difficulties make it too expensive. If you had a magic wand, what would you perhaps change about the regulatory environment?
Steve (38:56.268)
It's hard because even if the regulatory environment is favorable for affordable housing, there is the the NIMBYism, the not in my backyard issue that really comes up where no one wants an infill affordable housing project. And until those attitudes change, it's going to be difficult to develop those type of products. One one issue, you know, the impact fees surrounding all these various communities are very high, which, as you know,
Case Thorp (39:07.431)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (39:19.111)
Mm -hmm.
Steve (39:26.124)
hurts affordability, but even if you did have a really viable site with the political ability to create, oftentimes the project gets derailed because folks around don't want that either as a comparable home or what they believe that brings to the community. And that has to change.
Case Thorp (39:49.319)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (39:52.935)
I know impact fees are what the county requires to cover roads and schools and parks in that part of the county. Does the builder pay the impact fees but then of course pass that along to the consumer?
Steve (40:05.068)
That's correct. That's correct. And we try to absorb some when the increases come, but they it's hard, you know, we have to we have to there's a risk profile in building homes. So some of that does get passed on directly. And the commissioners know that, I believe. And but I know there's there's different motivations that the the communities are growing and roads need to be repaired and maintained and schools need to be built and maintained. So I get it. It's just.
Case Thorp (40:07.431)
Mm -hmm.
Steve (40:33.964)
The two can't work together. The impact fees can't keep going up and expect for affordable housing.
Case Thorp (40:36.583)
Mm -hmm.
Case Thorp (40:40.423)
Go back to your magic wand, whether it's on the government side, the financial side, the NIMBY side. What would be one of the biggest, most impactful fixes to help the affordable housing crisis?
Steve (40:41.58)
Mm -hmm.
Steve (40:55.884)
Oh, gosh, I wish I knew the answer to that. I really do. I mean, everyone knows that Orlando in particular is a service based economy, and everyone knows that we've seen growth all around the theme park environment, the convention center and so forth. But in order for those things to continue to actually work, we need to be able to provide housing. And I think our town in itself.
Case Thorp (40:58.919)
Ha ha ha.
Steve (41:23.372)
needs to realize that we're going to lose growth opportunities to Tampa and Jacksonville and Miami for employment. And so it's just something that we need to work on a lot more here.
Case Thorp (41:36.551)
but I love you, but you didn't give me a fix item.
Steve (41:39.948)
I can't do it. I don't know the answer. Everything has to work in sync. Where there's been success is where developers had to provide a certain percentage of affordable housing within each project. That's been the fix, but it's not the solution.
Case Thorp (41:45.447)
Yeah.
Case Thorp (41:52.935)
Ah.
Case Thorp (41:58.631)
And I know of those situations in perhaps apartment complexes, maybe townhome situations. Are there free standing homes with that sort of a situation where like you're told you have to sell a certain percentage under what it cost you to build it?
Steve (42:12.844)
Sure, yeah, we've seen, well, not under what we've cost to build it, but there's a cap on the sales price that can be charged. And then that would be, that can't escalate at more than a certain price, which is a terrible, terrible, terrible thing because when you speak about capitalism and then when someone tries to sell that home, that's labeled affordable and they can't sell it for what the retail price is. They can only sell it for the value that's scribed at a 3 % increase or 5 % increase.
Case Thorp (42:37.095)
Oh.
Case Thorp (42:40.935)
So it's not just himming you in, it hems the buyer in the next time they sell it.
Steve (42:43.18)
Yeah, it's awful. That's awful. Yeah, totally awful. So that's another instance of where you think you're doing a good thing, but it could actually hurt the consumer in the long, given the fact they're not able to take advantage of the free market.
Case Thorp (42:58.695)
Why wouldn't the government have the incentive to allow the purchaser to sell it later for free market rate?
Steve (43:05.772)
because I think that affordable housing piece goes away instantly. Yeah. Yeah.
Case Thorp (43:09.574)
Uh, uh, yeah.
Well, Steve, in closing, what are some of the hopes you have for your company in particular to expressing the Christ -likeness?
Steve (43:25.356)
Sure. We are, so we're very goal oriented. Everything is measured in all of our companies. And along with that, you know, you actually in my personal life, I measure health and wellness, religion, education, and then family and friends. It's just, it's something that I look at.
Case Thorp (43:50.535)
Mm.
Steve (43:52.14)
every week and find out, make sure that I advanced in those categories. Oftentimes you fail. And if you fail too much, you can go through life where you haven't advanced really. I mean, there's truth to that. If you haven't learned something in the current week, if you haven't developed friendships, if you haven't been to church, life can go on and you're not advanced. So we're very goal -oriented.
Case Thorp (43:56.551)
Yeah.
Case Thorp (44:07.527)
Mm.
Steve (44:19.436)
always looking to put things in place and then make sure we follow up and measure them. So I think even having this call today, it always helps me realign on what's the next program that we're gonna do and how's the next opportunity for engagement. But that's the way I believe you have to treat things. It's always gotta be goal setting and measurement.
Case Thorp (44:39.271)
Yeah. Wow. Dude, thank you. And I'm looking forward to Thorpe Terrace. Okay. Yeah, we're gonna have a big celebration on that one. Watch the county turn it down.
Steve (44:47.724)
You got it. Yeah, whatever you want. It's done.
Steve (44:54.38)
Never. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's really nice to be able to talk to you about all this.
Case Thorp (44:57.671)
Well, thank you.
Agreed. Thanks, Steve. So thank you for joining us friends. Be sure and like and share. It really helps us get the word out. Leave a review wherever you get your podcast. You can visit collaborativeorlando .org for all sorts of content and find us across the social media platforms. Don't forget Forum for Faithfulness, our weekly 10 minute devotional for the working Christian. That devotional looks at some of the issues in the public square and follows the liturgical calendar. I want to thank our sponsor for today's episode, the Magruder Foundation. I'm Case Thorpe. God's blessings on you.