Bare With Us

In this episode of Bare With Us, we explore a side of retirement planning that rarely gets the attention it deserves—everything beyond the financial projections. Today’s retirees are navigating a new reality, often spending 10 to 30 years in retirement, and many are discovering that it’s not the money that’s the hardest part…it’s finding purpose.

Drawing from their firsthand experience helping dozens of clients transition into retirement, Scott and Mike share what they’ve observed over the years—where retirees tend to thrive, where they struggle, and the patterns that consistently show up among those who enjoy the most successful retirements. Along with Finn McKay, they discuss the hidden losses people face when they leave the workforce, including the loss of structure, community, identity, and daily purpose.

We also explore how physical and mental health play a crucial role in keeping your financial plan meaningful—and how maintaining well-being can help ensure the retirement you planned for is one you can actually enjoy.
This thoughtful conversation goes far beyond spreadsheets and savings projections. It’s about designing a retirement that’s rich in purpose, connection, and quality of life.

What is Bare With Us?

We welcome you to “Bare With Us,” the podcast where we Bare Out the latest economic and financial questions that matter to you. Mike Robinson, a Chartered Investment Manager (CIM) from Calgary, Scott Richardson, a Certified Financial Planner (CFP) from Edmonton, and Finn McKay, a Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) from Winnipeg, engage in an unstructured discussion, bringing you a wealth of knowledge and a diverse experience from the world of finance.

Each episode features an unstructured, unscripted and entertaining discussion where we pursue ideas and concepts as they arise naturally through our conversation. We tackle a broad range of timely topics, from economic or market trends and financial planning strategies.

Whether you’re one of our valued clients, or someone new to our insights, our goal is to provide you with valuable information, from diverse perspectives, that can help you navigate the complex world of finance.

We are experts in our field, but we are new to podcasting, so we invite you to Bare With Us, while we learn, grow and share! Please feel free to reach out to us with any feedback, to suggest any topics, or to learn how to work with us. You don’t have to, but you can!

Mike:

On this episode of Bear With Us. Sorry, Ed.

Scott:

Check. Check. Check one.

Mike:

Semblance. Semblance. She sells seashells by the seashore. She sells seashells by the seashore.

Scott:

Yeah. The human torch was denied a bank loan.

Finn:

This is recording, by the way.

Scott:

The arsonist the arsonist has oddly shaped feet.

Mike:

My apartment smells of rich mahogany. I have many leather bound books. Leather bound books. I don't quite know how to book this, but I'm kind of a big People know me. People know.

Mike:

Okay. What

Scott:

do we wanna do? How do we wanna do this one? Oh, we're gonna go right into it. Okay.

Mike:

Our style.

Scott:

Alrighty. Welcome everybody. Thanks for joining us on the, Bear With Us podcast. My name is Scott Richardson. As usual, I am joined by Mike Robinson and Finn McKay.

Scott:

And, today, we've decided we are going to tackle, I wanna call it purpose in retirement.

Mike:

I think for lack of a better term, which we'll we'll come up with.

Scott:

But it's the non financial side of retirement.

Mike:

That's right.

Scott:

It's more what we're looking at. And for us, think we've bantered this one about a couple of times as being a potential topic and now we're finally doing it. So so yeah. So I I'm just gonna start kinda just saying where this has come from.

Mike:

I think that's a good idea. Like, you brought this idea to me a couple of years ago, actually, because it came to you first through some experiences and then I latched on. So why don't you talk about that and then why I think it's a good idea and why we're here

Finn:

today?

Scott:

So this this kinda started for me the idea of this nonfinancial retirement is I started having a lot of clients ask about early retirement and trying to retire as early as possible. And it it was almost to the point where, like, they were ready to you know, I'll go down to one car. I'll get rid of this. I'll sacrifice vacations. Just get me show me that I can retire early.

Scott:

And it's like, is that do you want that as a as a retirement? Like, sacrificing all this stuff? Like and so I really started to to kinda dive into it because it seemed like they were turning what wasn't a math problem into a math problem, because I don't think the issue was the math. Like, if the issue is they just wanted to retire away from something they didn't like. And so I started to really research a lot of retirement, and a lot of the the concepts around, you know, where it came from.

Scott:

And and so that that that was kind of the beginning for me was was seeing this early retirement thing. And and when I did my presentation on it in San Diego, it you know, the thing that I started that triggered me is it used to be that, you know, we were trying to get people to early retirement because it was like this badge of honor that you could retire super early and, you know, you made fun of people if they were working in retirement because, well, they must have done something wrong. And I don't think that should be the case. I think if, you know, if you wanna work or whatever, I think there's way more reasons why people do it in retirement. So that's that's kinda where this this started for me.

Mike:

Yeah. I I I jumped on it when you first started talking about it with me because of what I'm seeing out there. And, again, for the benefit of people listening or perhaps don't know us, you know, both Scott and I are financial advisers. Scott's in Edmonton. I'm at Calgary.

Mike:

Finn is a portfolio manager in in Winnipeg. But, you know, I have seen a number of people into and through retirement. And, Scott, you like to say, like, I've retired 65 times. Yeah. Mhmm.

Mike:

And so one of the benefits of, you know, speaking with people like us or working with people like us is you get the benefit of multiple people's experience. And so what I have, have seen, not not universally, but I have definitely seen people retire. They know they don't wanna work anymore or they don't wanna work where they're working or what they're doing. And so they wanna retire whether it's earlier or not is even not even really relevant in this case. Yeah.

Mike:

But then they're not doing anything in retirement. And I've seen this with clients. I've even seen this with family as well, and they retire to nothing. And we'll get into some of the consequences of that, but, you know, but as an opening question, like, is that what you is that the goal? Like, is there a goal to retire and do nothing?

Mike:

Because that's what's happening. Mhmm. Is a lot of people are doing nothing. There's a lot of TV being watched, and it causes challenges.

Finn:

Well, I I I so so I've I have some friends, and they they talk about Coastfire. So it's like, you know, financial independence retire early, but it's the coast fire number is the what number do you need in terms of your total wealth? Where you can just you can what they call coast fire, which is you can either, like, take, like, a just a part time job or something like that for the rest of your life and then be able to be essentially retired. And it's an interesting concept because like you said, what is the goal? Is the goal to give yourself the freedom of time?

Finn:

And then it's like, well, what are you gonna do with that time? Right. And I think I think that we all exist to have purpose of some sort, and we all find purpose in different things. I don't think purpose is watching television. Television is very fun, but, you know, you're think I that there's a lot of, like, deeply unsatisfied people in in retirement, and this is a really important thing.

Finn:

And I think I think I don't I you know, you you both would know better than I do, but, you know, the is there a reason why women live longer than men? I think women handle retirement from my, you know, experience. Women seem to just handle retirement a lot better than men because men are like, you know, it's like you're you're working. You're not you don't have, like, maybe the same kind of social network that women do. And, generally, I feel like men have less they they tend to pick up hobbies a little bit less easily.

Finn:

And so they tend to retire and then they do they do nothing. Like, I remember when my grandpa retired and, you know, he worked until he was in his early eighties, maybe late seventies, and he just joined every board that he could he could join. Right. And, like, you know, my other grandpa, when he retired, he, he also, like, started doing some, like, volunteer work, but, like, his health started to decline almost immediately at retirement, which is a very common thing

Mike:

Yeah.

Finn:

Which is, you know, you become kind of sedentary.

Mike:

And I think anecdotally, you're right about women handling it better than men. I don't have any statistics to back that up other than life expectancy. Mhmm. But to also to be fair to the to people who are in this situation that's kind of led us here, like, we're, again, kind of the first generation of people facing this and what I mean by that is the the idea of retirement itself is actually not that old. Yes.

Mike:

Which most people will Right. Probably be surprised to hear. The whole idea of retirement is not that old. And listen, again, like to be fair to people, there was a time, like when I was growing up in the like seventies and eighties, you retired at 65 and died at 69. Yeah.

Mike:

So this idea that I'm gonna retire and I'm gonna sit in a La Z Boy and watch TV wasn't wasn't as foolish as it may sound Right. Because that is kind of the way it went and then you you you passed away. But we are living in a new world now where you retire at 65 or whenever. We have more wealth accumulated now than we ever have before with the baby boomers, and we have more longevity. Mhmm.

Mike:

And so retirement now lasts for a really or potentially lasts for a really long time. Mhmm. And no one's ever told them or taught them that you need to prepare for this new stage of your life because thirty years ago, it didn't exist.

Finn:

Yeah. Well, and that's that's Like,

Mike:

we're crossing a new boundary here.

Scott:

Well, if if you look up retirement online, a lot of what you will get is all financial stuff about how to get ready for retirement. It's all financial planning. It's retirement accounts.

Finn:

Right. What is the dollar the dollar amount, everything

Scott:

like that. But there is nothing on how to prepare psychologically and emotionally for it. And so and I think you're right, Mike. Like, lot of people don't realize that they're about to spend a third of their life in retirement nowadays. And that wasn't the case when it was invented.

Scott:

And so to your point why this is a relatively new problem, I'll I'll give you a little bit of stats on on retirement here, but a lot of people don't know this, but retirement was actually invented by the Germans.

Finn:

Right.

Scott:

It was invented by Bismarck. Yes. And, from what I understand of that, it was you know, back then, they in Germany, if the day you didn't show up to work was the day you were dead.

Mike:

But Well, I guess he's not case here too.

Scott:

Like But you you stayed in that job because you didn't have anything else to do. Mhmm. And they couldn't get new people into the workforce because everyone was staying in the job until the day that they died. And so it was Bismarck that came up with the idea of, you know, government funded paid pension. But when that was set up, the the the retirement age was 70.

Scott:

Life expectancy was late fifties, early sixties. Right. So so it was like a it was a little backwards, but that was also because it was government funded. Right? And so, you know, you fast forward now and even if, you know, we're in Canada and you refer to Canada, like OAS was invented in Canada.

Scott:

Security. Old age security was invented in 1927, but it was only available to the poorest of Canadians. And then in, 1952, it became, eligible for everyone, but you had to be over 70. You know? RRSPs in Canada were created in 1957.

Scott:

Yeah. CPP came about in 1966. So when you think about it, this isn't something that has been around forever. It's in many cases less than a 100 years old. And so when you think about that, okay, all of these retirement ages when it was first invented was 70 and life expectancy was far less, a lot of people started to say, okay.

Scott:

Well, that's not what I want. So there was this push earlier and earlier to move the retirement ages. And, you know, I think it was for CPP, it wasn't until the nineties, I wanna say, where, like, you had the ability to retire at or take CPP at 60. The it was the 1992 reforms, I think it was. I can't remember.

Mike:

Yeah.

Scott:

But so, you know, it's it's we've seen this shift where now we're pushing that retirement age early because people wanted more of those golden years. But what's happened at the same time is medical advancements, you know, health care, just you name it, pharmaceuticals, whatever. Now Education. Education.

Mike:

Exercise. Exercise. Nutrition.

Scott:

So now we're seeing life expectancy go out. And so now we've seen that, you know, complete inflection where we've got the retirement age at, you know, 65, 60, sometimes some cases 55. And life expectancy, you're you're late eighties. Mhmm. You know, my wife used to work in long term care, and at one point, in one of the, ones that she was in, the average age was 94.

Scott:

And average age

Finn:

was 94.

Scott:

Yeah. In one of the, long term care facilities. So, you know, if you retire at 55 and you live to 95, like, that's forty years.

Mike:

I I have a client who's 93, and he retired at 55.

Finn:

And He's still going. That's crazy.

Scott:

And so that's always been my question is as this continues to change and now we have this really long period of time, what are you gonna do?

Mike:

Yeah. Exactly. And that's the whole point, like, you know, we were debating offline or I wanted to make the point is we're not every we've we've used this statement before. Everybody knows what they wanna retire from, but nobody thinks about what they wanna retire to. And my point, least, or our point is I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't retire or you shouldn't retire early.

Mike:

What I'm suggesting and what I'm concerned about is people don't have a plan for what they're going to do in retirement. And when you consider all these factors like longevity and greater wealth and how long you might be retired, we just need to come up with a plan. Mhmm. Not saying don't do it. I'm saying, let's plan it out, and the plan isn't financial.

Scott:

Mhmm. When I I think with that plan too is is what I see from a lot of clients in terms of responses to this. And I don't wanna say it's justifications, but it's responses in terms of the what I get is a lot of what I would call vacation phase or actually what doctor Riley Moynes calls is the vacation phase of retirement. And it it's all travel, golf, all those things that while you were working, you didn't have time to do. And it's and so they their vision is that they're gonna do all of that for the rest of their lives.

Scott:

But, eventually, you get tired of that. Mhmm. And it it doesn't provide a lot of purpose, or or meaning. Right. It's usually just vacation.

Scott:

And and, again, a lot of the the responses I get, it's you can't fill three hundred and sixty five days of that. And so it's kinda that what's next.

Mike:

Yeah. Everybody goes to the vacation phase, sleeping a little later, having coffee, reading the paper, doing all that stuff, but it wears thin. And for some people, it lasts a year. For some people, it lasts, like, a month. And then, like, okay.

Mike:

Now what? And most people say, well, I'll just figure it out. And that's one of the things, that I disagree with with doctor Moynes. And so for those of you listening, what we're referencing is there's a great TED talk that you can find on YouTube by doctor Riley Moynes who discusses the stages of of retirement, and it's along these lines, like, we we have borrowed material from him in our our work. Where I think he is hasn't got it right is he suggests, first, go ahead and do the vacation phase, but then you need to take some time to figure out what it is you wanna be doing, try different things, volunteer for boards, do this, do that.

Mike:

I think we need to do it before. Set the plan earlier. It doesn't mean you have to get it right. Like, you can change your plan, but I think it needs to be before you're actually retired.

Scott:

I agree. I I think to to something you said before, it's that idea of retiring away from something. Yeah. Typically, people that I see who are really pushing on and I I I again, I started with early retirement, but the people that I see who are retiring away, they're retiring away from something that they really don't like. And so it's like, well, maybe you can change that pro problem.

Scott:

Like, can you find the thing that you do like or or or find that purpose in in your work while you're working? I think, you know, I always think of you, Finn, for that because I think with what you do here, you've been able to find great passion in what you do. Not that you didn't have passion before, but I think sustainability

Finn:

leader of before. Yeah.

Scott:

So I think, like, I think of you as a great example of that, of of being able to do that while you're young.

Mike:

Mhmm.

Scott:

And I think that's a really cool piece. So

Finn:

Yeah. I think I think a lot of people just one, you know, now now this is becoming much I mean, it's going to be philosophical because we're talking about, you know, something that isn't financial and is a part of the human a very deep part of the human experience. But this idea that, like, you know, a lot of people go through their whole life without really having much purpose and don't derive much meaning out of their life. And I mean, it's hard to do. It's hard to find it, especially in the world that we live in where we all have obligations to to various things.

Finn:

And we and for for a lot of people, the, you know, the meaning and the purpose that they derive, maybe they don't even realize it, is is the obligations that they have to their work, to the people at their work, to the people they're serving at their work, or sort of providing for their family. And then when they stop doing that, it's like, you know, the kids are moved away or you retired. It's like, what was, maybe you didn't even realize that was the thing that was giving you meaning.

Mike:

Yes. And

Finn:

identity. And identity. Well and that's, I mean, that's a whole other discussion. Like, you know, there was this there's this really great book by this, Jesuit priest actually, called Awareness, and he talks about the importance of not identifying yourself with, like, things and material things. Like, you know, I I shouldn't identify myself as, a portfolio manager.

Finn:

Like, try to describe yourself without using titles or where you're from or, you know, describe yourself through who you truly am as a as a being. And it's a very difficult thing for a lot of people because those things can all be taken away from you. And when you retire, you are voluntarily giving it away. And so, yeah, I think it's really important to consciously think about how you can derive meaning and purpose throughout your entire life, and it'll make retirement much, much easier because then it's like, okay. Like, you know, this is how I derived retirement while derived purpose while I was working.

Finn:

And then, you know, well, can I continue to do that in different ways, in in retirement? Right.

Mike:

Yeah. Think just do it in different ways.

Scott:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point because I think, identity, like, when you say I'm retired, what does that mean?

Finn:

Yeah. Well, in a lot of people, they have an image. It's like, well, they're golfing. They're on a cruise. And that that isn't that shouldn't necessarily be what it is for everyone.

Finn:

Maybe for some people, does work. But Yeah.

Scott:

But that is a loss of identity in the sense when you think about it, because retirement as an identity doesn't to me really have a Right. It's nebulous. It's it's very nebulous. Yes.

Finn:

Yeah.

Scott:

But if somebody asked me what I do right now, I have a definition of that. And like most people, they define it through their work.

Finn:

Yes.

Scott:

Right. And so when that's gone, what's your new identity? And, you know, to touch on it, to to go back to doctor Riley Moynes, that's one of his he identifies in his, TED talk five losses that people go through in retirement, and identity is one of them.

Mike:

Yes.

Scott:

And the other ones are just default, list them off is, loss of routine, loss of relationships, loss of purpose, and in some cases, a loss of power. And so those ones I I find unbelievably intriguing, especially because if you think about, like, relationships, I I had a client this last week that I met with and she's eight years retired now. And, you know, she said, I don't know. I'm kinda looking for that next thing now. I'm I'm really stuck because how do you meet new people in your seventies?

Scott:

Where where is the new like, it it's not work provided that for a lot of people. And so

Mike:

For sure.

Scott:

And so if you're not out there and you're not involved then or don't have something to do, then that's where you you see those relationships shrink.

Finn:

Right. It's for so it is for a lot of people. It is almost their entire social network is in their work.

Scott:

Yeah. Then And so when you lose that social circle now, it it's almost like she said to me, she said, like, everything seems to be just closing in. Yeah.

Mike:

I think it's a great point. And, you know, I'll I'll also for clarity for everyone out there, like, I don't profess to be an expert in this at all. No. I'm I'm just you know, this is what we have observed, what I've observed, and we're we're To help people through it. Help people through it.

Mike:

And so one of the things that I suggest to people, when you start thinking about retirement and what are the some of the things you're going to do, one of them needs to be social. Because I get a lot of when I talk to people, I get a lot of answers about, golf, and they say, well, you live in Calgary, like, you can only golf, like, four months of the year in Calgary. And I get also get a lot of the men say, I'm gonna restore an old car. Okay. Well, that's a worthy project, but you're alone in the garage.

Mike:

Like, so you need to include some things that are socially related. I think that's actually like, if I if I think about like, I was talking

Finn:

to my dad about this a little bit, and he was talking about a lot of his friends who are who are women. They all have these really great social connections and social networks. And I also think about actually in in, like, Rebecca's parents' community, same kind of thing. Like, all the women, they're all getting together, and they're knitting, and they've got all these little craft projects they're all doing together, and they're all, like they they know each other, and they hang out with each other constantly. And the men, you know, they were out on the fields and farming, and they, you know, they retire, they sit and watch TV, and they don't they don't have that same kind of social connection.

Finn:

And I think that is one of the things that gives a lot of people purpose is those connections. And when you lose them, you feel very devoid.

Scott:

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. And I think the loss is, like like, to your point, Mike, of we're just trying to help people through this. You know, I one that always stands out for me is is talking to a client of mine, and and he was kinda like, I don't know if I really buy what you're saying, Scott.

Scott:

Like, I'm gonna have a great time in retirement. I'm clearing my schedule. I don't have to do anything. It's gonna be great. And then, you know, I followed up with him.

Scott:

It was almost a year later and he was like, Scott, you were right. I knew I had a problem when I didn't get out of my pajamas for eight days. Oh my. And he was like, oh, okay.

Finn:

That's like the beginning to a really great blog blog post. Scott. But

Scott:

it it was because he it was almost like he was rebelling against having anything in his schedule, anything that he had while he was working, he had to stop all of it.

Mike:

Denial.

Scott:

Yeah. So, so I think, you know, and he ended up going back to work actually. And then has since, you know, taken on little projects and and it's amazing what he ended up figuring out through that. But that to me was big piece is that sense of being involved and getting out there.

Mike:

Yeah.

Finn:

So So what do you when you when you look at like, when you look at your clients who've been the most successful in retirement, is there some common common things that they've done or are there certain common actions they've taken, or have they thought about it in a certain way?

Mike:

Yeah. I mean, I haven't specifically thought that through, but if I if I do now, like, I think about the people that I think are happiest in retirement, and again, I'm not just just quoting doctor Meinz here, but I've seen it too is there are people who do a lot of volunteer work and sort of help other people Mhmm. And have some of these social activities. And you're right. Like, it it does tend to be more of the women, like, you know, a bridge club or, you know, a book club, like people doing these these activities, but as well as volunteering, you know, at causes that interest them or or care about them.

Mike:

For example, I have someone who and this is not for everyone, but they volunteer at a hospice and just spend time with people who are in the last sort of days or weeks weeks of of their life. But she she won't stop doing that until she's in the hospice herself. Like, she actually so I wouldn't say she loves it, but she's it's a service. Like, she's really helping people feel better who are, you know, on death's door

Finn:

kinda thing. I've always felt like, like, one of the great purposes that most people have is being in service to others. Yeah. Which when, of course, when you retire, you you are no longer in service to others. So it makes sense that to me that if, you know, you're you're joining some social causes, you're helping, you're volunteering or whatever you wanna do, that that actually can have a really big impact on on giving you you you purpose.

Mike:

Exactly. So if you think about you're gonna you're gonna plan this out. Right? You're gonna plan your retirement, and we kinda touched on it earlier, like, we have certain skill sets in our professions.

Scott:

Mhmm.

Mike:

And at some point, someone says, well, you know, I don't wanna work here anymore. I'm tired of this company or this job or the grind, like, let's just call it. Right? Yep. Okay.

Mike:

I get that. Everybody understands that. Well, what do you have? What skill sets do you have or personality sets do you do you have that you could still use those skills and traits, but in a way that's maybe in service to others instead of in service to, you know, quote, quote, the man. Right?

Mike:

Or the grind. Mhmm.

Scott:

Yeah. Like I think the people like, to answer your question too, I think the people that I see that succeed the most in this are the ones who are open to constantly trying new things to to Yeah. And, again, we say it starts earlier because I agree with you. I think you should start planning for this. And so to plan for retirement, you should start figuring out what are all the things that I enjoy, what do I wanna do.

Scott:

And and it's

Mike:

What am I good at?

Scott:

What am I good at? And, you know, for a lot of people, I get a lot of responses from people, and they'll say, well, you know, Scott, nobody's gonna want a 63 year old to help them with this or whatever. And it's like, well, no. They are. They do.

Scott:

You're you're unbelievably valuable because you've got expertise, knowledge, skills, and experience. But we just we like, I always say as human beings, we have an amazing ability to justify our actions to ourselves. Mhmm. And so it becomes more of a justification of, no, I just don't really wanna try and I just wanna get away from this.

Finn:

Well, and it's scary because you're you you know, you've for a lot of people, I I imagine, I don't know, but for a lot people, it's like, you know, you work your entire career. You you, you gain certain levels of, like, you know, prominence and authority, and and then, you know, you come to, like, an age where you're supposed to retire, and you're like, well, I don't like what I'm doing right now, or I I I just need a change. And retirement's such an easy change because you don't have to try you it's not risky. Yep. There's no risk.

Finn:

You're just like there's no risk to being at home. And but to go out and try to find something new to do, and to maybe start a new company or or or join a board of directors or whatever

Mike:

is risky. I know of someone who, you know, spent their life in a business career in a like, they weren't a business owner, but they were an executive in a business career, and they were a member of a church. And in retirement, they're looking for volunteers to be on the board for the church. And so he joined it just out of a, like, yeah, I have time now that I'm retired, but it actually became a lot more than that because the other the church is all volunteer. Right?

Mike:

This is a nondenominational church. It's not like the Catholic church. It's very nondenominational, and they're all volunteers. Mhmm. And most of them have no business experience.

Mike:

Right. So when you're on a board or you're trying to organize fundraisers or or be a treasurer, do any of this, Like, none of those people know how to do those things. Well, he does. Right. And so he took his skill set, you know, and he this wasn't intentional.

Mike:

He sort of stumbled into this, but Mhmm. You take your skill set from your career of forty five years and now apply it in a volunteer fashion and totally reshape the the way they look at their board and the church and the organization and stuff. And it was like a night and day switch. Right? Like, now the fundraisers are killing it and Right.

Mike:

Recruitment and, know, not recruiting. That's the wrong word, but, like, membership and

Scott:

Yeah.

Mike:

That kind of thing. So it was great. Like, that's what we need to take those exams saying, okay. Well, what can I do that, you know, is maybe in service to others?

Scott:

And and it involves saying yes, you know, and and trying it and going out there and doing it.

Mike:

Yeah. So also to backtrack because you you hit something too back to your question about who are the happiest people. Undoubtedly, those that stay active in some way. Like physically active? Physically active in some way, which doesn't mean necessarily the gym or anything, but you have to keep moving.

Mike:

Yeah. You've gotta keep

Finn:

a good time to talk about, like, the what is it? The centenarian decathlon?

Scott:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a Peter Attia thing from, his book Outlive, the centenarian decathlon.

Finn:

Yeah. I think this is one of the most I I I love this concept. I think it is so maybe it's because I'm, like, a bit mathematically focused. So the idea of like being like so maybe Nate, do you wanna explain it?

Mike:

Yeah. I'm not familiar with this.

Scott:

So the in the book, he talks about the the centenarian decathlon is you pick 10 things that you would like to be able to do when you're a 100 years old, and you work backwards from it. So I think the example

Mike:

is When you're 100 or by the time you're

Scott:

100? When you're 100. You wanna still be able to do it when you're a 100 years old. Okay. So in the in the book, his example that he gives is in his nineties or in his hundreds, he wants to be able to load a suitcase into the overhead compartment of an airplane.

Mike:

Right.

Scott:

And so if that's 20 pounds, then what he knows that he needs to be able to do in his sixties is do that with fifty, sixty, 70 pounds because he talks about how you will I think the atrophy of your muscles is like 14% a decade or something like that. Anyway.

Mike:

It's significant. Yeah.

Finn:

Yeah.

Scott:

So the idea is to work backwards. And so he gives examples of things like, Oh, I want to be able to get up off the floor without using my hands. I wanna be able to or at least get up off the floor, period.

Mike:

Right. I actually

Scott:

So then then now that might be needing to get up with no hands. And so he talks about being able to carry two bags of groceries, two blocks. Mhmm. And so that's grip strength. So he's talking about now you'd need to do farmer carries, carrying 80 to a 100 pounds.

Mike:

Yeah.

Scott:

In order to carry those groceries. So it's and it's very personal in the sense of figuring out the things that you want to be able to do in your life and then work backwards from them to make sure that you can do them now and every decade after.

Mike:

I love it. It's such

Finn:

a great it's such a great concept because it's like, you know, there's the idea of like lifespan and health span and like a lot of people, they they they don't really live a great last, you know, ten, fifteen years of their life. Right. And, you know, if you can if you're thinking about like, I wanna I wanna just wanna get off the toilet when I'm, you know, 85. Yeah. And it's like, well, okay.

Finn:

Well, that means that I I should be able to squat 200 pounds when I'm 50. And then in at 60, I should be able to squat a 180 pound, whatever whatever whatever the the Yeah. Numbers are. And it's just like, as long as you're hitting the numbers, you're on you know you're on track. Yeah.

Finn:

And you know when you're not on track and how to correct for it. And I think that's that's a really important concept because, yeah, like like you said, you know, being active is is really, really important also for your mental

Mike:

health. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott:

So the active piece is one. I think to touch on kinda your story on the church, you made me think of it. I was it was this past, spring, summer. My aunt used to be the, chancellor of the U of A. And, when she was done, she this past year, she received an honorary doctorate, from the U of A.

Scott:

And we were at a luncheon before she received that. And I was sitting in the room and I was I was very amazed because these were all people, like she's in her seventies. There was an the lieutenant governor was there. She was in her seventies. There's all these people that are in their late sixties and seventies.

Scott:

And I'm talking to them and they're like, Yeah, I just wrote a book. I'm starting a business. I'm doing this research. And they're unbelievably skilled people just trying different things and they're not giving up on We talked about it last episode of the the biggest asset you have to protect with disability insurance is your ability to earn income. And so, like, the thing that I love about it is they're using that tool, their ability to earn income or to do things for the rest of their life.

Scott:

They're not giving up on it. And so that was something that I think really resonated with me. And it's the same as your client that is doing all of that. I think that's really cool.

Mike:

Yeah. So Just random wandering too. The you know, I mentioned the active. The other thing I think is important is is if you are married, you should plan for what are some things that you can do together that you'll enjoy. You need some things for yourself as well, but also some things together, partially because perhaps it gets him off the La Z Boy and the TV.

Mike:

But also, like, in all seriousness, divorce is a is a big issue, and the rate of divorce of people in their sixties is on the rise in a big way. And I apologize. I don't have the number

Scott:

It's actually the highest. It's the high. Right.

Mike:

And I don't have those numbers.

Scott:

Age group, 65 is the highest level of divorce.

Mike:

Yeah. People

Scott:

I heard that in Let's go see. A podcast that Riley Moynes did.

Mike:

People retire, and then suddenly, they are now spending so much more time together or in the house together.

Scott:

They've probably never spent that much time together in their lives.

Mike:

That's right. They never have. And we joke about, you know, the work spouse and, like, you know, so and so is your work spouse. Well, like, that's real because you spend eight hours a day with those fellow coworkers. You only spend two or three hours a day with your spouse.

Mike:

And suddenly, you turn it to twenty four hours a day. And, you know, to be perfectly blunt, like, after thirty, forty years of marriage, like, some of the little things that we all, compromise on or or, you know, tolerate, start to grind a little harder when it's twelve hours a day instead of two or three. So instead of, like, ignoring it or making fun of it or whatever, like, okay. Let's understand that this is going to happen. So what are some things that we can do in advance of this so that we're happy together?

Mike:

Yeah. And and not throw you know, like, no one's vision of retirement involves divorce, but that's actually what's happening.

Finn:

So so what are do do you have any, like, sort of tangible brainstorming techniques or ideas for how you can find, first off, something that you can do that would maybe give you give you the purpose and meaning that you most people probably should have in their retirement, whether it's, like, you know, working for a charitable organization or or finding another job. And also, like, you know, exploring different things that you can you can do with your spouse.

Mike:

To be perfectly frank, the answer to that is no. I don't, but I would like to. Like, that is where we're working towards.

Finn:

Mhmm.

Mike:

I would say, like, Scott and I talk about this issue a lot, like, offline in our business. That's something that I'm working towards is something a little more tangible. But what it is today so to answer that question, what am I talking about today with people is is planning this in advance. Like, you need to start thinking about this before retirement. Right.

Mike:

You need to start thinking about inclusion of your spouse. Mhmm. Not in everything. Like, I think it's important to have your own stuff as well. Mhmm.

Mike:

But I think you need to or I in my opinion, you should include your spouse in some of these things. I think you need to think about how you can use your either your personality traits or your skill sets that you've honed over the last forty years. Continue to use them Mhmm. In in a meaningful way and, you know, whatever that meaningful means, like, means different things to different people. But Well, in your example of what the church Yeah.

Mike:

I would have suggest Yeah. That and as doctor Moyn suggests, in service to others is is what tends to make people happiest, but I'm not gonna I mean, no one's gonna hold you accountable for this. No. But that's what I

Finn:

would And and, you know, everything every everybody has a different Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Being active.

Mike:

And I also, you know, I balance this. I get I I give some of my clients and family members a hard time about how much they sit around and watch TV and do nothing. But I also caveat saying, I'm not saying don't do that at all. Like, it's totally fine to to do that. Like, if you wanna if you like watching, you know, I don't even know what I don't want to just keep it.

Scott:

Downtime. If

Mike:

you want Yeah. Downtime. Like, if down if television series are your are your thing and you enjoy that, I'm not saying don't do that. I'm saying don't do it all day. Yeah.

Mike:

And don't, you know, sit up until 02:00 in the morning, binge watching stuff and drinking because you're bored. And eating chips. Yeah. Well, this is what's happening.

Scott:

We do like chips.

Mike:

Yeah. Is happening. Like, people are retiring and their level of alcohol consumption Yeah. Goes up significantly as well. And it's not because they're drunks, like they're they're bored.

Scott:

Yep.

Mike:

And it's like, well, I don't have to get up at 06:00 in the morning. So what's the harm if I have a couple extra rumbos? Right? Like, nothing Mhmm. Until that's what you do every night.

Scott:

Yeah. So, Fin, to answer your question Mhmm. A couple of things for me is is number one is just the awareness. Like, you you have to know that you are facing those five losses, the the loss of routine, the loss of identity, relationships, purpose, power. Though you are facing those.

Scott:

Mhmm. And I so I think just actually knowing that and knowing that this purpose in retirement thing is a big thing, think is step one. Another thing that Mike and I have talked offline on is is, I've ordered and to give out to clients like Riley Moynes' book on the four phases of retirement. Because that's a great place where you can read more about all of those losses. He also talks about what you will face, which Mike's already touched is is he calls it Riley Moynes calls it the three d's, divorce, depression, and decline.

Scott:

And so just knowing that Pretty dark. They are pretty dark.

Finn:

Another d actually. It's

Scott:

a dark

Finn:

d. Darkness.

Scott:

But once you know those, it's knowing that there's a path forward out of them. And he talks about ways that you can do this in figuring out your unique ability. And and we've we've touched on it already. Identify skills and where you can go, do them and and saying yes and trying new things. And and that understanding that if you say yes and it doesn't work out, just say no.

Scott:

And Yeah. Do people on to something else.

Mike:

Try something else.

Scott:

And For sure. But it takes saying yes first. And so, for me, I think that's kind of the big thing that you can take away is number one is knowledge. You just have to know that this is gonna, that this exists and that now that we are living significantly more of our lives in retirement, eventually, you're gonna get bored if you don't have something else to do.

Mike:

Yeah. And it's again, not to rehash or repeat ourselves, but people aren't thinking about this because this wasn't an issue Yep. Thirty years ago or when people were in their working years. This is a new thing, but it is going to happen. You are going to face those five losses,

Scott:

like Yeah.

Mike:

So know it going in. Okay. This is what's gonna happen. So how can we try and plan ahead and and and try and mitigate. Yeah.

Mike:

It's really just mitigate some of those some of those things. Right?

Scott:

To to touch on again why this wasn't as much of a problem before too is if you think back thirty years ago and the people who were retired then, they had skills and things that they did in day to day life that kept them busy that we've now delegated away or or don't do. So if I think back to like my grandfather, and, you know, he had a garage full of woodworking tools, and they would do all sorts of stuff in there. And, you know, they were he would do it actually. I don't know if you've ever heard of Candy Cane Lane in Edmonton. No.

Scott:

But it's it's a street that's now named Candy Cane Lane, but it was it's it's at Christmas time, they put out candy cane cutouts and snowmen, but my grandparents were one of the couples that started it. And it was interesting because I came across talking with my girls about it, I we came across a CBC interview that they had done with them a long time ago.

Finn:

Oh, cool.

Scott:

And he talked about it in his in this interview that, you know, the reason they did it was really to get to know their neighbors and to create community and stay involved. And it has expanded now to something that happens every year and it the the whole street is named Candy Cane Lane now. And so it's it's just a really that's something that didn't well, that I see not really existing as much nowadays as it did back then where we had those skill sets, those hobbies that, you know, now everyone pulls into their garage, shuts the garage, goes in their house, and they don't

Finn:

Yeah. Actually waited my car to get before I get out of there. I wanted to have the door completely closed so no one no one knows. But it's true, like, this loss of community.

Scott:

Yeah. I

Finn:

mean, that just makes this so much more severe. Like, it's it is we live in a world where, like, I I the only time I ever meet my neighbors is when I'm, like, restaining the fence, which doesn't happen super often. Shirtless.

Scott:

While doing your squats. Yeah. Yeah.

Finn:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I'm like, what are doing?

Finn:

Well, I just wanna get off the toilet with my

Mike:

So Alright. So I'm gonna throw something else out, again, and that is another key factor in this. And we we've talked about it with the with your decathlon, Centurion decathlon. It was also just your general health because we are living longer and, you know, there's a lot of people alive today basically because of medication. And their inactivity prevents them from doing all the things we're talking about.

Mike:

Like, they sit and watch TV all day because that's all they could do. Mhmm. And so you gotta watch your health too so that when you hit the golden years, you can actually do some of these things that we are suggesting that Well and And you worked so hard. You saved all this money. And, you know, in some cases, we're talking about very significant amounts of money.

Mike:

And, you know, if you're unhealthy, it's it's a waste. Like

Scott:

We talked about it today. Wealth irrelevance. Yes. You know, your your wealth is irrelevant if you don't have your health. You know, it is a great unhealthy being unhealthy is a great destroyer of wealth.

Mike:

Yes.

Scott:

And and again, the idea of that centenarian decathlon and a lot of that outlive is is getting that lifespan and health span to match as close as possible so that you're not spending the last fifteen years in long term care or whatever. So I I do think that's a really important piece because, you know, to start off, we started off with retirement and, you know, everyone always thinks of the financial piece.

Mike:

That's right.

Scott:

And and that financial piece can disappear quickly if you're unhealthy.

Finn:

Well, and I guess this this kind of goes into something that I was gonna ask about, which is that, you know, when you when you when you go into retirement, it's like this big shift in your life where you go from accumulating to then spending. And I think this is a very psychologically difficult thing for a lot of

Mike:

people to to go through. It very much is.

Finn:

But it's also intense. Like you said, it's intensely important. You spend your whole life saving money and it's like, you know, use it. Use it. Use it for for for your benefit, for your family's benefit, however you want to, but just, like, you know, think about how you can use it to improve your life and, know, make sure that you're, you know, avoiding the wealth or relevance risk.

Finn:

And that that can mean, you know, something that we've all talked about is, like, you know, if if you can find ways to, you know, spend money to improve your health and, like, let's say, you know, a fitness trainer is, like, really good for you and you you actually get to the gym if you have a trainer. Like, being able to know I can spend the money on that and have feel like you have the permission to do that is very important. Yeah. So do you have do you have any thoughts on, like, people change their do that mind shift towards, you know, spending money to travel, to see their friends, to see their family, to

Mike:

really hard. Yeah. Like, you're right. I mean, some of the most successful people, one of the reasons they're successful is they've been they've made such prudent decisions. And then you turn around and you're, you know, 60 or 65 or whatever it is, and you you visually can see or, like, Scott and I can do financial projections that show.

Mike:

You're not gonna run out of money. You have lots of money, but they you can't just flip a switch and suddenly change the way change your habits that you've had for the last fifty or seventy years. It is a challenge, but we I try and encourage it. Like, I was speaking to someone last week, he says, I think we're gonna take a trip to Paris. And I said, well, do it.

Mike:

Not only should you do it Mhmm. Fly business class. And she looked at me like I was the boogeyman. Like, are you crazy? I'm like, no.

Mike:

I'm not crazy. Like, I'll be mad at you if you don't fly business class to Paris. Yeah. This is not something she does three times a year. Right?

Mike:

So it's kind of a one off or she might do it every five years or something. It's a bit of a special thing. Like But you should have special things. Absolutely. Yeah.

Finn:

Do it. Like, that's the point of life is to enjoy to enjoy these things. Like, you worked your entire life Yeah. So that you could do these things.

Scott:

Yeah. In in my experience, Fin, they wanna some of the people who are the best at that, of that switch are the people who have more of a phased retirement approach, where they they flip their schedule to maybe part time or something like that. And so they have that comfort of knowing that they've still got income coming in and but they're they're slowly teasing out those things that they wanna be able to do, and they're doing it on the other time. And so they they've kind of broken retirement up into different phases or stages The where dimmer switch. Yeah.

Scott:

The kind of the dimmer switch approach. And it's easier, like, because flipping that switch really is hard, but being able to do it over time, I've found a lot of people are very successful, doing that. And that helps.

Mike:

I've also found that if you do some of these things strategically, you can show them how okay it is. So what I mean by that is, like, if someone wants to do a one off, a special thing, well, do it now. Do it now. Like, lock in that game. And I've had examples where in the past couple years, someone has done a one off, and it was significant.

Mike:

Like, I'm thinking of someone in particular who withdrew $70,000 to do something special. And we were sitting down, like, nine months later or something at year end review, and and he's like, something's not right here. Like, we have we have a little bit more money now than we did last year, yet we made that withdrawal. Right. Right.

Mike:

But the growth took care of it. Like, you can't even tell. You have as much money as you did last year, and you have that $70,000 thing. Mhmm. Oh, wow.

Mike:

But, you know Mhmm. If markets were down double digit back to back, you're okay. Maybe that's not the time Mhmm. To do it. But that helped them.

Mike:

They actually saw that, like, wow. Yeah. We can do this if you do it strategically. It can be done. And so that actually excited them, like and these are people who have a difficult time spending money.

Mike:

Like, they literally are asking for my permission Mhmm. To spend their money.

Finn:

Right. Right? Yeah. But sometimes they, like, they need they need someone else to say to them. Yeah.

Finn:

Like, this is you'll be okay. This is gonna be okay. And they can do the math themselves, and you can show them spreadsheets, but they just need someone to say sign off and say, you're gonna be great. Yeah. Don't worry.

Mike:

Yeah. Yeah. It helps, but it it's a slow it's a slow build to that. Mhmm. It's not you can't flip the switch.

Scott:

Yeah. And and, again, I think that's also our experience because of our client base.

Mike:

Yes.

Scott:

I guarantee there's a lot of people out there who have zero problems spending the money. Yeah.

Mike:

We just don't know those anymore. Or if we do, they're

Finn:

family members.

Scott:

They're family members. That's awesome. So, so, yeah, that's I think for me, that's that's the key, is is that that driver of really looking at the purpose.

Mike:

You know, we're get we're putting on the table something that's important to us. We don't have all the answers yet.

Scott:

It's just an awareness. But it's an awareness.

Mike:

Like, let's try. Let's make an effort to try and do this better. We're all trying to get better.

Scott:

Mhmm.

Mike:

I am trying to improve the lives of my clients, and it's not always about the money. So here we are, and maybe if we did this two years from now, we'd have more to say or Mhmm. More actionable items, but this is where it is today. Let's be aware. Let's make some plans.

Mike:

Let's figure out what you wanna retire to, not just what you wanna retire from, and try and mitigate or avoid the three dark d's.

Scott:

And the five losses. Five losses.

Mike:

Or maybe you can't avoid the five losses, but understand it's coming and what you might be able to do about it.

Finn:

And I think that's, like, Scott, you brought up the five losses.

Mike:

We gotta avoid the three dark d's, but I don't know that you can avoid the five Yeah. Losses, but know that

Finn:

But knowing them and knowing it is I it's well yeah.

Scott:

I do believe you you can avoid a lot of the five losses because, again, saying yes and being involved means you can create new relationships.

Mike:

Yeah. And build routine.

Scott:

And build and build routine.

Mike:

Uh-huh. Create a new identity. Yeah. Yeah. You're right.

Scott:

You're right. So I I think there's ways around it or or Ways to manage it.

Finn:

It's a chronic thing you have to kind of work for.

Scott:

Yeah. And and again, I don't wanna try and do, the the podcast today to for us to define all of this. Like, again, if you wanna go find it, like resources that I would say for clients is watch the TED Talk that Mike mentioned by Riley Moynes.

Finn:

Is there a specific one that

Scott:

he has? I think it's I think he calls it how to squeeze the juice out of retirement.

Finn:

Okay. The Riley Moynes.

Mike:

Riley Moynes. Doctor. M o y N

Scott:

e s.

Mike:

E s. It's a TEDx talk. Okay. It's either called squeezing the juice out of retirement or it's called the four stages. Yeah.

Mike:

But if you if you His book is called the four stages. Pipe in bump in Riley Moines Mhmm. Into YouTube, it'll be the first hit.

Scott:

Yeah. And his book is called the four phases of retirement. And so, again, a great resource to go find this stuff out. And I think once you've identified it and and you can see that this is a really big potential problem for people.

Mike:

Yeah.

Scott:

And and that's why we're we're trying to bring awareness to it is because it's real and we see it. And so I think that's where we start with it. I like Mike said, I don't I don't have all the answers on on how to solve it. But it's definitely I think it starts with conversations. You know?

Finn:

And and talking with people like you who have seen it done Yeah. Right and seen it done wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that I think that's another part of it is I I feel like a lot of people feel like they have to go through it.

Finn:

And I I I'm I'm not speaking from any experience, obviously, but but I I imagine a lot of people feel like they they they have to go through it alone and that it's that it's it's strange if they reach out to people to ask about how to how to kind of cope through it and kind of find their way and that people should be open to talking about it and expressing their Yeah. Their they what they need.

Mike:

I act yeah. You know, maybe we edit this part back into earlier in the in the in our discussion, but you're right. They do people do sort of think, I have to just sort of deal with this and figure this out myself. Yeah. I've had a number of people, again, particularly men, who will say, it's very difficult for me to learn how to be alone Mhmm.

Mike:

But I'm doing it. I'm learning it, and I'm I'm getting it. And I'm like, why are you doing that? But that's what they feel. Like, they feel is like I've had all these relationships at work or perhaps they were married and either their, you know, their spouse passed away or it's divorce.

Mike:

But now they're retired when they're at home alone all all day long Mhmm. And they think it's like a skill that they have to learn Mhmm. To how to be comfortable sitting by yourself all day long. I'm like, I don't think that's even part of human nature. Like, you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole here, yeah, maybe a little bit, maybe you need to get used to it at night, but you can fill your days with Mhmm.

Mike:

Some more social activities. Right? But people do. You're right. They think I have to tackle this alone and I'll I'll win it.

Mike:

I'll get it. Like, I don't think you're thinking about it the right way.

Finn:

Well, and that's that's a I think that that's a part of, you know, the the lack of community that we have in North America generally.

Mike:

Yeah.

Finn:

That's been kinda dwindling away. Like, you don't, you know, you don't create, what was the name of the street? The candy cane?

Scott:

Candy Cane Lane.

Finn:

Candy Cane Lane. There's there's no more, you know I mean, there is candy cane Lanes still, but but it's but there's no new candy cane lanes, really. Like, it's it's, we need to start thinking more about that. Like, I I so wish that like, there's a few houses on my block that went up for sale recently, and we had some friends and and family that were looking at buying them. So wishing, like, to fill the block with my friends and family.

Finn:

It'd be so so incredible.

Scott:

Yeah. And I think the the community piece, but I think also that being home alone, you get so hyper focused on certain things like

Mike:

Mhmm.

Scott:

We talked about it in the episode that we did about kind of the changing world with Trump and all of that. We did that episode. And Yeah. Like, a lot of the people who who are really concerned about that are a lot of the the clients that I see are they're sitting at home watching the news every day.

Finn:

Oh, yeah.

Scott:

And it they they just get hyper focused on that. And so it's

Mike:

CNN addicts.

Scott:

Yeah. And so it like, can we can we shift the script? And and, like, why don't we get more involved in our community and and focus on the local? Because the world is scary out there. And and so but they're the ones that get really, really stressed about it Yeah.

Scott:

Because it's all that they're consuming all day. And and then the other thing that I was thinking about that you and I have touched on before is how I find that a lot of those people, when they have tasks to do, they will find a way to stretch that task to fill the

Mike:

day. Yes.

Scott:

And and so that is also one of those pieces in in retirement, like, to to to stay active and and to be busy. Like, you know, even going to the gym, you think of all the things that you have to remember to do in order to just do that. Like, pack your gym bag. Make sure you have this. Make sure you do that.

Scott:

You've gotta go there. You gotta drive. Do I have gas in the car? Like, there's the mental cues that you have to go through to accomplish that task are great. Mhmm.

Scott:

And so that really helps with that longevity piece. And so those are just some observations and and comments that I had on top of

Finn:

that too. Something I think

Mike:

our best conclusion so far is that men are terrible at this.

Scott:

I maybe. I I think the other thing too that, like, the people I find who are most successful at this are the the the more entrepreneurial men who have always

Mike:

Yes.

Scott:

Wanted to do like, they're really good at this. Yes. And so I think it's a certain type of men.

Mike:

Yeah. No. You're right. I mean, obviously, I was joking. Well, kind of.

Scott:

Kind of.

Mike:

No. You're right, though. Actually, if I think about it, yes, the the people that I know who have been very entrepreneurial are still super active. Not necessarily in being entrepreneurs, but they're they're always busy doing something. Yeah.

Mike:

They're they're they're going. And they're healthy as a result. Like, they're sharp physically and mentally. Yeah. You were gonna say something though

Finn:

before Yeah. I know. I was. There was a thought that I had way earlier in this that I wanted to kinda tie up a little bit, which was we're talking about, like, the loss of identity and how, you know, like, that that book that I meant it's a very preachy book. It was a Jesuit priest who wrote it.

Finn:

Right? But, he talks about, you know, how you you should identify with these things that are, like, external to you, things that can be removed from you. And and I just I just had this this, this thought about that. Like, you know, if, for example, I I might identify as a portfolio manager. Right?

Finn:

And that's that's kind of a dangerous thing to do, especially when the markets aren't doing so right well. Right? But but but but but in all seriousness, you know, like, instead of defining yourself by your profession, defining yourself by who you are as an individual. So I I would say I'm you know, I wouldn't define myself as a portfolio manager. I am an intensely curious person who likes to search for what is happening in reality, and and I, like, I love doing research, and those are the things that maybe I would define myself as instead of it being, like, a label that someone else gave me.

Finn:

Oh. And and you can do that with, like, you know, you know, you are all of these other different types of things that are external to you. Like, I'm a homeowner. You know? You're not a homeowner.

Finn:

You you like to take care of things around you. You know, things like that. Just thinking about different ways that you can define yourself rather than considering yourself by a title that can be

Mike:

Yeah. You know, everyone's heard the expression, like, if if you if you passed away tomorrow, like, what would people say about you Yeah. At your funeral? But in and and and I agree with that. But the in conjunction with that, what I have also witnessed is when unfortunate some people pass away early.

Mike:

Right? And then people who pass away early, like, at their funeral, there's, like, a 100 people there, a 150 people at the funeral. Right? Cause they have all these colleagues and connections or clients or, all the social. But if that same person died at 85 instead of 55, how many people will be at the funeral?

Mike:

And I say that just because, again, you are not defined by your profession.

Finn:

Mhmm.

Mike:

You're defined more by what are the things you do or you're good at or you like to do or what do people think about you.

Scott:

And your relationships.

Mike:

And your relationships. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Not the numbers.

Finn:

Yep. Yeah. Got at least, four or five more podcast episodes.

Mike:

You know what? The other reason that happens and I I think I've already mentioned this today, but I really think it's an important part about dealing with financial adviser because to be perfectly blunt, the skills that we have, like the math or the numbers and all that, it's it's not, you know, third degree trigonometry. Like, anyone can learn these things. Mhmm. Like, I'm not a math whiz.

Mike:

All these things that we do financially, other people can learn. Anyone can kind of do this. But we've done it for dozens of other people. Mhmm. And we've seen the experiences that everyone else has gone through, whether it's building a business or closing down a business or selling a business or retiring or dealing with loss of spouse or dealing with loss of children or dealing with, things like, addiction or gambling problems or major loss or all these things.

Mike:

Like, we've just seen all this from other people and you get the benefit of our of that experience. That wasn't even our own experience, but we've got to be able to deal with it on an objective level Mhmm. And be less emotional about it and see how people handle it or what's the best way or not the best way to deal with it.

Scott:

Absolutely. It's the conversations that people typically don't have with anyone else. They'll have with us.

Mike:

Yeah. Everything

Scott:

in this podcast is meant for entertainment and educational purposes only. It is not financial advice. And all the opinions that we express in this podcast are not necessarily the opinions of the companies that we work with or affiliated with. So bear with us while we discuss these topics and remember that financial and investing decisions are different for everyone and you should consult a financial professional or do your own research before doing anything for yourself. Well said.

Finn:

Thank

Scott:

you. I also like to say,

Mike:

trust me, when I'm giving you financial advice, you will know it. It will be one on one and in person, and it will be clear that this is financial advice. This is not.

Scott:

You will know exactly what I'm

Mike:

doing. Yeah.