260: How Jacqueline Landed Her First $10K+ Freelance Fashion Project (Part 1)

You ever wonder what it *actually* takes to land a $10,000+ freelance project in fashion? Jacqueline’s back for her third appearance—and this time, she walks us through how a total stranger found her on Google, filled out her project form, and signed a $10,498 contract without negotiating. We get into the exact pricing strategy, mindset shifts, and proposal she used to close it—and what she did *before* the contract even landed to help seal the deal. Let’s get into it.

Resources:
196: How This Freelancer Does Sourcing & Product Development for Factories (and is making bank)
197: How to Sell Yourself As A Freelance Fashion Designer (without feeling gross) with Nikki Rausch
250: The $6K Freelancer: How She Replaced Her Salary in 30 Days
Conscious Fashion Collective
The Power Pause, Neha Ruch Book

About Jacqueline:
Jacqueline is a freelance denim designer who collaborates with ethical brands. Denim production has significant environmental and social consequences, mainly due to chemical dyes, excessive washing, and unethical labor practices. Her work aims to raise awareness that the denim industry should prioritize not only sustainability but also fairness, ethics, responsibility, and promoting slow consumption. Jacqueline is dedicated to contributing towards steering the industry in a positive direction for the future.

Connect with Jacqueline:
Email her at [e-mail]
Check out her website

Follow on Instagram 

Connect on LinkedIn

Download my Freelance Price List just for fashion (it’s free!): sewheidi.com/price

Creators and Guests

Host

Heidi Weinberg {Sew Heidi}

Heidi (aka Sew Heidi) is a self-taught freelance fashion designer who built a six-figure business without a degree, portfolio, or industry connections. After years of burnout in the fashion industry, she went freelance—and never looked back. Now, she helps other designers ditch toxic jobs, land better clients, and build flexible careers they love. Through her podcast, courses, and resources, Heidi has helped thousands of designers take control of their fashion path and finally get paid what they’re worth.

What is Fashion Designers Get Paid: Build Your Fashion Career On Your Own Terms?

This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers, textile designer and beyond) who want more flexibility in their career while still doing work they love.

You'll learn how to build a freelance fashion business, so you can do the work you love on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk).

Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want.

Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)

Heidi [00:00:01]:
Do you ever wonder what it actually takes to land a $10,000 freelance project in fashion? Jacqueline is back for her third appearance on the show, and this time, she walks us through how a total stranger found her on Google, filled out her project form, and signed a $10,498 project without negotiating. We get into the exact pricing strategy, mindset shifts, and proposals she used to close the deal, plus what she did before the contract even landed to help make sure this client moved forward. This is part one of a two part episode with Jacqueline. Let's get to it. Okay. You just landed a huge project, your biggest project ever, is it not?

Jacqueline [00:00:37]:
Yes.

Heidi [00:00:37]:
Okay. Over 10,000. It was a really specific amount, like 10,000.

Jacqueline [00:00:43]:
$10,498.

Heidi [00:00:44]:
Okay, tell me about the product. Like, tell me. I mean, and I think I. And everybody listening, like, how did this come to fruition? Where did this client come from? And then, like, walk us through the journey from, like, first point of contact to, like, closing the deal. And yes, feel free to look at your notes.

Jacqueline [00:01:01]:
Yes, I had to write some notes because I knew that you were gonna ask, when did you have your discovery call xyz. And it's been a few months now, so I had to go back and recap. So she, the client, she found me through Google, which is amazing, which is crazy amazing because I have not put, truthfully any effort into SEO.

Heidi [00:01:37]:
Do you know what she searched? Like, freelance denim designer or what?

Jacqueline [00:01:41]:
I don't know yet. It's one of the things I need to ask her. She found me through Google, so it pulled up my website, so she must have typed in something like freelance denim designer. And before that, probably a matter of weeks before that, I just did a whole overhaul on my website.

Heidi [00:02:04]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:02:05]:
I changed a lot of it. And to make things a lot more clear and concise and flow better. And so it was great timing.

Heidi [00:02:15]:
Yeah. I've seen your website recently because we're working together on freelance intelligence. And I looked on it, and one of the things I'll say to compliment you and to also maybe give some tips to other people listening is like, I've seen so many freelancer websites that, like, you go to it, and even after poking around a little bit, it's still like, what exactly do they do? Like, they can arguably do a lot of things and a little bit of everything. And yours is like, instantly you land and it's like, oh, denim. And very deeply passionate about sustainability and conscious fashion. And it's so clear, like, in 01 seconds, that's great.

Jacqueline [00:02:58]:
Because that's what I was going for.

Heidi [00:03:00]:
Yeah. But I think, like. And it would be interesting if you at some point get to a situation with your client where you can maybe ask about some feedback.

Jacqueline [00:03:07]:
But I did ask her, so I'm just waiting. I'm waiting to hear back from her on that. And specifically I asked her, was it my website as a whole? Because one of the pages on the website is portfolio, where she can, you know, anyone can see the work, or if she clicked on download PDF portfolio. And which one was it that really felt like it showed my work? So I was hoping to have that answer for this, but tbd. Okay on that.

Heidi [00:03:42]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:03:42]:
But I'm thinking it was probably the website.

Heidi [00:03:45]:
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's well done. And I know you and I chatted about it, but everything I just said, like, it just. If I want someone to do sustainable denim, I land on your website. I'm like, no brainer. This is my person.

Jacqueline [00:03:56]:
That's what I was going for. Yeah.

Heidi [00:03:58]:
So, okay, so she found your website and then what happened? Did she fill out your contact form or what?

Jacqueline [00:04:05]:
So I got an email saying, I have a new project intake form. And so, so on my contact page on the website, I have my email and then I have like a two little blurb thing that says kind of what the steps would look like. Fill out the project intake form, book the discovery call, and we'll go from there. Okay, so I got an email saying that someone filled out my project intake form. And I've tweaked with the questions a lot as far as what I actually need to know and to make the form not too long, too lengthy.

Heidi [00:04:46]:
So can you tell us, like, what are the questions roughly?

Jacqueline [00:04:49]:
Yeah. So name, email, phone number, location. It's not specific. So they could put like, New York or they could put Europe.

Heidi [00:05:00]:
Sure.

Jacqueline [00:05:02]:
And what services are you seeking? What time frame are you looking at? I think the options for the time frame I have are like a few hours of consultation, a few weeks, a few months, or ongoing a retainer.

Heidi [00:05:22]:
Oh, you're asking them what type of support they need, not when they're ready to start working with you.

Jacqueline [00:05:26]:
I have that question as well.

Heidi [00:05:27]:
Okay, great.

Jacqueline [00:05:28]:
I think the next question is, when would you like to start?

Heidi [00:05:30]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:05:31]:
Options are as soon as possible, in a few weeks or next quarter.

Heidi [00:05:35]:
Gotcha.

Jacqueline [00:05:36]:
And the. I used to have the question, what is your budget? With a little line under it that said something like this helps me understand if your needs align with the scope of work. And I took that question out, which is kind of a gamble. But after learning about the price anchoring theory, which shout out to Amanda Russo, another fast student. She was the one that told me and some of the other girls about it. And she said instead of asking someone else what their budget is, they need to be anchoring off of your prices and your ballpark. And that will help them understand that the type of work you do cost that much instead of the other way around.

Heidi [00:06:36]:
And then being like, oh, $500 or. Yeah. And you're like, no, packages start at 5,000 or whatever the number.

Jacqueline [00:06:43]:
Okay, yeah. So I took that question out a while ago, and I added pricing to my website, and it's under each service. So I have consultation, tech packs, product development, and each of those specifies what you get with that service and starting at prices.

Heidi [00:07:07]:
Oh, great.

Jacqueline [00:07:08]:
And I debated about putting prices on my website for years, and I finally did it, and I put it up there before she. Before her and I started working together.

Heidi [00:07:21]:
Okay. Do you know if she saw it?

Jacqueline [00:07:23]:
She did see it. She did, yeah. She saw the prices. And I have different tiers. And because each project is different, I have starting at.

Heidi [00:07:33]:
Right.

Jacqueline [00:07:33]:
Not just, like one.

Heidi [00:07:35]:
Can you share what the numbers are?

Jacqueline [00:07:37]:
Yeah, I would need to pull it up on my website. I think my phone is on the.

Heidi [00:07:44]:
Yeah, it's right here.

Jacqueline [00:07:46]:
Because I forgot. I tweaked. I've tweaked it and I played with the numbers for a long time.

Heidi [00:07:57]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:07:57]:
Because it's really. It's really difficult to. I mean, I don't know a freelancer that hasn't struggled with pricing. It's just.

Heidi [00:08:10]:
It's a living, breathing beast.

Jacqueline [00:08:13]:
It's. It's. Yeah, it's so difficult. So product development. I have concept to market from 3,888 per style.

Heidi [00:08:25]:
Very specific number. $3,888.

Jacqueline [00:08:30]:
So I read. Yes, it's very specific.

Heidi [00:08:33]:
You read about pricing psychology? A little bit.

Jacqueline [00:08:34]:
I read about pricing psychology, a few different articles. I think one or two books. And I wish I could quote the guy, but I can't recall his name. He talked about making your prices very, very specific, which conveys that you've spent a lot of time thinking about it and that you just didn't throw out a number, which is what I did before, because I wasn't sure. I was just like, I just need to pick a number. Whatever.

Heidi [00:09:06]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jacqueline [00:09:07]:
3000 or 2500.

Heidi [00:09:09]:
Sure, sure, sure.

Jacqueline [00:09:10]:
And then I listened to a podcast and read more about pricing psychology, and I was like, okay. Let's go back and tweak this. Yeah. So it's very specific.

Heidi [00:09:18]:
Yeah. Okay. So product development is 3,888.

Jacqueline [00:09:22]:
That's concept to market.

Heidi [00:09:24]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:09:24]:
Per style.

Heidi [00:09:25]:
Gotcha. Starts at.

Jacqueline [00:09:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. Starting at concept to sampling is 2,993 per style.

Heidi [00:09:33]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:09:34]:
Concept to Tech Pack is $19.93 per style.

Heidi [00:09:38]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:09:39]:
Tech Pack's 999.

Heidi [00:09:41]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:09:41]:
Like, if they already have the concept and the style and they just need the tech pack and then each of those four services within product development, you can see on the website, like, what. All of that. It includes what it includes.

Heidi [00:09:54]:
Okay. And we'll obviously link to your website so people can check all this out. Okay. So she saw that, which is great, because not every client that might fill out a form goes. Pokes around at everything. Some people are deep researchers. Some people are. But she saw that.

Heidi [00:10:09]:
So she filled out the form.

Jacqueline [00:10:10]:
And she filled out the form.

Heidi [00:10:12]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:10:13]:
And so that was on April. April 2nd of this year.

Heidi [00:10:19]:
Okay. And it's July 12th that we're recording.

Jacqueline [00:10:23]:
Yeah. 2025.

Heidi [00:10:24]:
In my house.

Jacqueline [00:10:25]:
In your house here in Virginia Beach.

Heidi [00:10:27]:
In Virginia beach, yes. Because you live close and you came up to record.

Jacqueline [00:10:30]:
Yes.

Heidi [00:10:30]:
Which is super exciting to do this in person.

Jacqueline [00:10:32]:
It's very exciting.

Heidi [00:10:33]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:10:35]:
I was hoping maybe we could film it, but that takes so much more.

Heidi [00:10:39]:
That's a whole other setup.

Jacqueline [00:10:40]:
It's a whole other setup. But, yeah. So she filled out the project intake form April 2nd. We had the discovery call the next day on April 3rd. Okay. And then we. I sent her the proposal that night.

Heidi [00:10:53]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:10:54]:
And we had one more call to go over it, because I was hoping to implement the Nikki Roush. Yeah. Technique of, you know, having the proposal sent when we're on a call together so that we can review it. But the timing just didn't work out.

Heidi [00:11:12]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:11:13]:
So at that point, I was kind of thinking, oh, shoot, like, I missed the boat on that one. But the timing just didn't work out. So we had another call on April 15, and I offered that I didn't charge her for that because I felt that it was for what she wanted. It was a big enough scope that I really wanted her to get the chance to talk more. And if you think about it from an even more broad perspective, you're meeting someone you've never met online, and you might hire them for thousands of dollars. I wanted to give her the opportunity to talk more, maybe get to know me a little bit more, ask more questions. So I offered that second call we had that mid April, and then I sent her the proposal right after that call.

Heidi [00:12:15]:
Wait, hold on. You had. So you guys had your discovery call. She sent the form April 2nd. You got back to her, I imagine, right away, and booked a discovery call for the next day. You guys got on that call. You sent the proposal the same day.

Jacqueline [00:12:28]:
Yeah, that night.

Heidi [00:12:29]:
So she must have had a pretty clear idea of what she wanted.

Jacqueline [00:12:32]:
She did. Yeah. So I don't want to say too much about it.

Heidi [00:12:36]:
Totally fair.

Jacqueline [00:12:37]:
But it's completely from scratch. So concept to market for a denim brand that is starting from scratch.

Heidi [00:12:47]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:12:47]:
So I knew that the scope of work was going to be very, very large.

Heidi [00:12:52]:
Right. You're building the whole foundation.

Jacqueline [00:12:53]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:12:54]:
Okay, so you said the proposal on the third, and then you. And then what happened? Did it just. I know you said you had the call on the 15th, but, like, were you just waiting to hear back and then you're like, let's get on our call.

Jacqueline [00:13:05]:
So between April 15th and the end of May, I. So I sent the proposal mid April, and we have.

Heidi [00:13:14]:
Oh, I'm confused. I thought you said you sent it the same day you had the discovery call.

Jacqueline [00:13:18]:
I. Oh, you're right. You're right. Yeah. April 3rd.

Heidi [00:13:22]:
Then you had another call on the 15th.

Jacqueline [00:13:23]:
Yeah, yeah. We talked through the proposal. We had. She booked the call for the 15th.

Heidi [00:13:29]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:13:29]:
And she. That wanted to ask more questions, talk more about it. And she was starting to say verbiage that hinted at that she did want to work with me, like, oh, when we do this, or when we. What your ideas are for xyz, or when we would launch. And those little signs to me say that in their mind, they're already thinking of me, like, because she's saying we instead of like, oh, when I launch. So in her mind, she's already extended that to like, I want to work with you. But as we've all learned, it's not a done deal until the contract is signed and money's in the bank. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jacqueline [00:14:21]:
So I didn't want to get to attached or just like really kind of get my heart set on it because I've had a potential client say, yes, I want to work with you. Send me the contract. And then they.

Heidi [00:14:39]:
It didn't pan out.

Jacqueline [00:14:40]:
It didn't pan out.

Heidi [00:14:41]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:14:43]:
So I took it very, very seriously. But I. I kept some distance from it. And we, my family and I had a trip planned to Disneyland in between the time that I sent the proposal. I sent her the contract so she could see what it would look like. Because she had questions about that and she had other stuff going on. She was out of town. So there was over a month, about five weeks where I had sent the prices.

Heidi [00:15:17]:
I sent the proposal was it for that 10,498.

Jacqueline [00:15:21]:
So I gave her two options.

Heidi [00:15:22]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:15:24]:
I gave her package A, which was concept to market, and then package B concept to sampling.

Heidi [00:15:30]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:15:31]:
And the way that I, I guess created it, I wanted it to be a little bit more visual than just a Google Doc.

Heidi [00:15:45]:
Sure.

Jacqueline [00:15:45]:
So I made it in Canva and I kind of wanted it to resemble kind of the pricing that you see. Like if you're gonna start Hulu or Disney plus and you've got. Or Spotify and you've got like these three options.

Heidi [00:16:01]:
Comparison charts.

Jacqueline [00:16:02]:
Yeah, a little comparison chart. Because just like with those, you're comparing it and you're seeing, okay, do I want to pay less but have ads.

Heidi [00:16:14]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:16:14]:
Or am I willing to pay more and not have ads while I watch Disney?

Heidi [00:16:20]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:16:21]:
And I wanted to make sure that she could visually see what she was losing if she had gone with the less expensive option. So I think the proposal was a few pages and I wanted to make sure that she saw that. So I visually it was laid out like that. And I have on my website that if you work with me for two styles or more, you get a 10% savings. So I worked that into. I even put like a, you know, three styles times X amount of dollars per style equals this amount and then cross that out, you get a little lower price. Yeah. So she could see that savings and then the total price at the bottom.

Jacqueline [00:17:12]:
So package A was 10,498. Package B was 8,100.

Heidi [00:17:18]:
That's just concept of samples, not to bulk production. Okay.

Jacqueline [00:17:22]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:17:22]:
Market. Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:17:23]:
Yeah. And she ended up going with package A. Yeah.

Heidi [00:17:28]:
And like the price you gave her initially from day one, like didn't negotiate on the price at all.

Jacqueline [00:17:33]:
No, she didn't negotiate on the price at all. And. Cause I've had that before and it's a tricky conversation because for me personally, if I get too involved, I start feeling like I should give them a discount because times are rough.

Heidi [00:18:01]:
You get some type of emotional sympathy or something.

Jacqueline [00:18:04]:
Yeah, yeah. And I'm not doing that anymore. Good. Because I need to be paid as well for my time and it does convey a level of respect. So I'm glad that she didn't negotiate. The only questions that she had on the price was how it was going to be structured.

Heidi [00:18:37]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:18:37]:
And I Offered her a bunch of different payment structure options. Like she could pay all in one lump sum. She could do half and half. We decided on four different milestones. So the initial deposit and then three other milestones within the project. And this one is going to be about 10 months.

Heidi [00:18:59]:
Okay, gotcha.

Jacqueline [00:19:01]:
Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah, good.

Heidi [00:19:04]:
So it's about five weeks. She's traveling. You're at Disneyland. Like, what was. When was the moment? Did. Did she just email and say I'm ready or sign the contract? I think you said at that point she had the contract.

Jacqueline [00:19:16]:
She did have the contract. She had a few questions on it. She wanted to meet one more time. Which we met. We had a video call end of May.

Heidi [00:19:26]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:19:26]:
To one last time. I think for her to just solidify. I am going, you know, this person I met online, I'm going to invest in and believe in and trust and she needed to feel good about it. And I wouldn't want anyone to pay me if they didn't feel that I was the right person to work with. And so I got the email that, you know, you have a new contract that, that just got signed.

Heidi [00:19:58]:
What tool are you using? Just curiosity.

Jacqueline [00:20:01]:
So I use Square.

Heidi [00:20:02]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:20:03]:
So I do contract signing and invoicing through Square and. Which is great because she can just sign online, make it really easy. Yeah. I restructured my contract to make sure everything was good to go and she completed the deposit the same day. Ah. And I.

Heidi [00:20:30]:
What were you feeling like you got the email that the contract got signed? Like, I. I mean, especially considering what you mentioned earlier, where you said you've had some. That like they, they say like, yes, we're ready, we're gonna do it, and then it doesn't pan out. So this is kind of the opposite.

Jacqueline [00:20:51]:
Right. That she's a serious client.

Heidi [00:20:53]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:20:58]:
I think for maybe a day I was. I don't know how to articulate it. I think I was just like, huh. Waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Heidi [00:21:16]:
Meaning like you got the contract and she had paid and you were like, waiting. What was the other shoe would have been?

Jacqueline [00:21:24]:
I guess just something to go wrong in life. Which is. So I've been working on changing that mindset, but I have recognized that I do have the waiting for the other shoe to drop because so many other great things had happened at the same time. I had a very difficult mental health challenge, which you know, more about it. And so I guess I was kind of afraid all of that was going to come back up again and so many great things were happening at the Same time we planned a trip to Disneyland, which the money for that lined up, just, it all fell into place. And we had dreamed about taking our family to Disneyland for years.

Heidi [00:22:20]:
This was like a really big moment.

Jacqueline [00:22:21]:
It was really big. But while we were at Disneyland, I wasn't thinking about like, oh, I hope I get this project. I'm like, yeah, of course I hope I get this project. But it didn't feel like, like it was out of desperation. I would have been really, really, really bummed if it didn't work out or if I didn't get the project, but I didn't feel so desperate for it. Yeah. And so after kind of feeling like waiting for the other shoe to drop, I started to feel more excited. Like, no, she's a serious client, she really wants to do this.

Jacqueline [00:23:00]:
And, and she doesn't check those boxes of like a startup where you're like, oh, I don't really know if they're fully invested. They've got other things going on. She's in this. And so I started feeling more excited and like, this is what I've been working for. This is what I've been waiting for. A project of this size and I can do this.

Heidi [00:23:30]:
Yeah. Did you have. Because you and I have talked about your experience in the industry and I know you have waves of self doubt. Can I just say, because you haven't worked at these like Air Quote name brands, these corporate. You haven't worked in house. Have you worked in house and denim at all?

Jacqueline [00:23:56]:
No.

Heidi [00:23:57]:
Okay. Not even, not just name like big names that people might recognize.

Jacqueline [00:24:03]:
But like I had a four month internship doing after fidm.

Heidi [00:24:07]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:24:08]:
And that was it.

Heidi [00:24:09]:
And what type of product was that?

Jacqueline [00:24:11]:
I think it was dresses.

Heidi [00:24:12]:
Okay. You don't even remember barely. So your only Air Quote official work experience in fashion, you went to FIDM in LA and you had a four month internship. So I know there's been some maybe imposter syndrome. I'll let you label it, but like, I'd love for you to talk about that because I know for a fact so many other people feel that and they're like, well, I can't do this thing, or I could never do a $10,000 project because I don't have this, these credentials or this background or this experience. And we just chatted the other day as part of, you know, working together in freelance intelligence of. You have been so deeply invested on a personal level in denim and in conscious denim specifically for the last years.

Jacqueline [00:25:11]:
Five years.

Heidi [00:25:12]:
Yeah. And you've been educating yourself and learning but it's all just been self directed.

Jacqueline [00:25:21]:
It has, yeah.

Heidi [00:25:23]:
So how did you. And I believe I said to you, I said, I think you likely know more about the circularity. Or circularness.

Jacqueline [00:25:35]:
Circularity.

Heidi [00:25:36]:
Circularity of conscious denim and all the nuances that go into that specific product better than some people who maybe air quote, have those credentials and work in house. And I think it's because you lead with so much passion and you're genuinely just so deeply curious and so you're really driven to find this information and learn and educate yourself on a really high level. That all being said, I think passion can take you really far. But there's a balance between like, okay, I've studied this stuff versus, wait, do I actually know what I'm doing? Did any of that creep up for this specific project? Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:26:19]:
Not at first.

Heidi [00:26:20]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:26:22]:
Like I said at first, once I got past that, waiting for something bad to happen, I didn't feel the imposter syndrome at all. I felt like, no, like I am. I am ready for this.

Heidi [00:26:39]:
During the discovery, the proposal, the whole thing I did. That's amazing.

Jacqueline [00:26:43]:
Yeah. I truly felt like I've had so many discovery calls and just calls with other folks in the industry under my belt that I'm ready for this. I feel really great. And the moment that the imposter syndrome set in during this project or since the project has started is when I listen to a podcast episode interviewing Benjamin Talley. He's a denim designer. Like 25 years he's been doing it, and that's when it set in. And all I thought was, why didn't she choose him?

Heidi [00:27:26]:
I mean, is he even available?

Jacqueline [00:27:29]:
So, yeah, the logic goes out the window.

Heidi [00:27:32]:
Okay, but that was your reaction.

Jacqueline [00:27:35]:
It. Yes, because she had mentioned him and like his aesthetic and his style and he's worked for brands that she really likes. That is like kind of her customer that she's going after. And there's so many denim brands out there, but they're all in very different market categories. Like, obviously you've got the mass market, like no boundaries and Target and Walmart. Free assembly for Walmart. Then you've got. And mass market fast fashion, like H M.

Jacqueline [00:28:16]:
All of those, you know, they have. They're not denim brands, but they have denim in their, in their lines. And then you kind of take a step up and you've got madewell and Levi's and you know, arguably, arguably Levi's mass market, but it kind of goes into that brand. But I listened to the interview with him.

Heidi [00:28:37]:
Did you know of him before she mentioned his name.

Jacqueline [00:28:39]:
I didn't.

Heidi [00:28:40]:
Oh, so then you took it upon yourself to research.

Jacqueline [00:28:43]:
Yeah. And that made me feel like an imposter because I'm like, I should know about him. I, I. How do I not already know about him? And I don't know. I'm sure you've had moments like that where you're like, how did I not hear about this?

Heidi [00:29:00]:
I mean, I think I know this exact moment.

Jacqueline [00:29:03]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heidi [00:29:05]:
And there might be like, right before or right after you sign the contract, and then they say something and you're kind of like, mm, I'm gonna make note of that now. You better research that. Oh, yes, I've had this moment too. Yeah, yeah, totally.

Jacqueline [00:29:16]:
Yeah. And I just felt like, why did she choose me? Like, why didn't she go with him? And then, like I said, logic goes out the window and it's just emotion. And I looked into him more, and he's done anything from Kate Brand, which is a more, like, for me would be like, aspirational, like not quite luxury, but more of a designer. Like anywhere from like 170 bucks for jeans to like 2, 220 or 250, not at all in my budget or anything. And he's so, he's worked for brands like that. And then I get farther along in that podcast episode interview with him, and he's worked for all different kinds of markets. And he started talking about free assembly for Walmart, and I just started thinking, wow, his breadth of work really spans the market segments. I mean, a $27 pair of jeans at Walmart is not the same for a $300 pair.

Heidi [00:30:41]:
Totally.

Jacqueline [00:30:43]:
And for some reason, knowing that he, this, like, very experienced, seasoned denim designer has worked on a line for Walmart made me feel like, more confident. I don't know, I'm not sure how they, like, really intersect. I don't know. And I looked into him more, and he does consulting now. So I'm like, oh, she really could have gone with him. But with someone who has 25 years under their belt, they're going to charge so much more. And, you know, obviously my client has a budget, and the reality is that she didn't go with him. And so that's to answer the imposter syndrome question.

Heidi [00:31:41]:
You didn't have it looked into this other guy. Listen to the podcast. All of a sudden, this wave of imposter syndrome came. But then it sounds like it got released pretty quickly.

Jacqueline [00:31:49]:
It did by the time I finished my run. Cause I listened to that Episode while I was on a run.

Heidi [00:31:55]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:31:56]:
So I sweat it out.

Heidi [00:31:58]:
Yeah, that's always good. Do you know if she was talking to another freelancers? Like, did she like look at people on upwork or anything?

Jacqueline [00:32:05]:
I don't know yet.

Heidi [00:32:06]:
I don't know. Yeah, that would be interesting just to. As you develop. Really, you're gonna work with over 10 months? Like.

Jacqueline [00:32:11]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:32:11]:
Be curious to know.

Jacqueline [00:32:13]:
But we, we actually just spent an entire day together.

Heidi [00:32:17]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:32:17]:
So.

Heidi [00:32:18]:
Okay, let's talk about that. So it's July and you just got back from a trip to LA where you went to do an on site factory visit with her. Is that correct? Okay, Talk a little bit about the whole thing.

Jacqueline [00:32:31]:
So in the discovery call and getting to know her needs, she was talking about manufacturing in la, because she's in LA right now.

Heidi [00:32:40]:
Is that where she lives?

Jacqueline [00:32:41]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:32:42]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:32:42]:
And just for context, you live on the east Coast? Yeah, we're in North Carolina. But LA is like a denim hub. San Francisco is not nearly as much as la, but it's a denim hub. And so I'm like, okay, manufacturing in LA would be great. Does that work with production costs with your end price point and all of that? And around the same time, I had a call with another fast student, Candace Stokes. Oh, yeah, been on the podcast too. And she had another one of those. How did I not know about this moment? She said, oh, have you heard of XYZ company? And I won't share it yet because it's.

Jacqueline [00:33:35]:
There's info that I can't share yet, but it's a denim manufacturer with a location in la. And she said, they're doing something really, really innovative and really cool, like, have you heard of them? And so I looked it up and I had that moment. How have I not heard of this company?

Heidi [00:33:56]:
Do I actually know what I'm doing?

Jacqueline [00:33:57]:
Do I know what I'm doing? So I reached out to that company after I saw that they had a location in la and I had a call. I just said, hey, I'm in the denim space. I'm really interested in what you're doing because you're a complete, completely flipping the denim production like It's a full 180.

Heidi [00:34:22]:
This is before you landed the contract?

Jacqueline [00:34:24]:
This is before I landed the contract.

Heidi [00:34:25]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:34:26]:
And I said, is there any way we can hop on a call? I'd love to hear more about what you're doing. And so we had a video call. She told me more about the company, what they're doing, and come to find out she's Also a professor at FIDM where I went to school. So there was like, just a great personal connection. I was like, oh, I went to fidm. And so we had a really great call. And during that call, I had told her, I have a potential client that I think this would be great for. And then once our family Disneyland trip was planned, I thought, I'm going to be in Anaheim.

Jacqueline [00:35:10]:
I know that train ride is only 45 minutes, so can we meet in person? And so a day after Disneyland, I.

Heidi [00:35:20]:
Was still, like, so exhausted.

Jacqueline [00:35:23]:
So exhausted. Sunburnt. I spent the day on the Teacups and the Star wars rides, and I knew I was going to be exhausted, but it was only 45 minutes away. I couldn't pass that up. So, day after Disneyland, took the train from Anaheim to la. And that was the first time I had been back to that area since I graduated from fidm, which we told.

Heidi [00:35:52]:
That story on a previous episode you were on. Yeah, okay, we'll link to that. Because that is a rollercoaster of a story.

Jacqueline [00:35:59]:
Yes.

Heidi [00:35:59]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:36:00]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:36:00]:
So you were back there for the first time since then.

Jacqueline [00:36:02]:
Yep. All these feelings of, like, how far I've come and where my life is now. It had been 10 years.

Heidi [00:36:13]:
Wow.

Jacqueline [00:36:14]:
Since I been back to LA. And so I met with the. With the factory. And the person I met with, she was amazing. We, like, connected personally, we connected professionally. We had a really great meeting. It went over by like an hour because we were just. We had such a great connection.

Jacqueline [00:36:38]:
And my friend, I don't remember who it was, but my friend was saying, like, oh, you're gonna go all the way to LA just for a meeting when you don't even have the client yet? I said, absolutely. Because making that connection and that foundation, those are going to be the decision makers between them wanting to work with me and choosing someone else to work with.

Heidi [00:37:07]:
And this is your niche that you live and breathe. And so even if that client doesn't pan out, you now have this relationship. I mean, I see it as a win win on any level.

Jacqueline [00:37:17]:
Absolutely.

Heidi [00:37:17]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:37:18]:
Yeah. And that's how I saw it. I'm like, even if this project falls through, I still want to be somehow working with this company because they're using 90% less water.

Heidi [00:37:32]:
Wow.

Jacqueline [00:37:33]:
Which denim is the amount of resources that it uses between water, cotton, synthetic fibers, synthetic indigo. I've never heard of a company that uses 90% less water. It's typically like, oh, we use like 15 to 20% less water. So it's significant. And they have an indigo alternative. Which is huge because natural indigo just isn't even a thing anymore because it's too unstable. And so we had a great meeting. And then when my client signed the contract, I told her about it, and I said this, like, this is the way.

Heidi [00:38:24]:
So you didn't even use it as leverage before she signed the contract?

Jacqueline [00:38:29]:
I did. Yeah.

Heidi [00:38:29]:
Okay, so. But you just maybe didn't tell her who the factory was.

Jacqueline [00:38:32]:
I didn't tell her who the factory was.

Heidi [00:38:33]:
Okay, how did you. It sounds like. I mean, you had made the comment to the person who said, wow, you're gonna go to this meeting. You don't even have the client yet. And you thought, well, that could be a good leverage point for her to choose me versus someone else. So then how did you actually leverage that?

Jacqueline [00:38:49]:
So I had. So one of the questions in the project intake form asks, where do you have an idea of where you want to manufacture? North America, Europe, Asia, wherever. And she had said she was thinking about la. And I'm like, that is perfect, because it's a denim hub. There's almost everything we need there. And I've come in contact with this company that from. I'm a little bit skeptical because the claims that they're making sound wild.

Heidi [00:39:33]:
Like, this is before you had visited.

Jacqueline [00:39:35]:
Okay, yeah. And that I want to see the product in person. But that based on all of my research, between their website, their social media, their LinkedIn, the press articles that have come out, press articles from Europe, like that. It seems legit, and it seems like it would work just as well. So I had told her about the company, but I didn't tell her the name of the company. Gotcha. And then she had two other factories in Turkey that we were thinking about, and I had meetings with them as well. Just video calls, just in case the one in LA didn't pan out.

Jacqueline [00:40:17]:
But I wasn't thinking, use it as leverage.

Heidi [00:40:23]:
Oh, okay.

Jacqueline [00:40:24]:
Which I guess just not those words, but I was absolutely thinking, like, this can help her make a decision.

Heidi [00:40:31]:
Okay.

Jacqueline [00:40:35]:
So I was pushing it because I said, this could eliminate all this water. It gives you production right where you live. You don't have to visit Turkey to go see the production floor. We would have actual firsthand eyes on the sewing floor to make sure. Like, it's actually a nice place to work. It's not a dungeon with no windows and, you know, xyz. So she was. She was skeptical at first as well, but I was really.

Jacqueline [00:41:16]:
I was really pushing it because I believe in it. And I was also telling her that not Just from the sustainability or conscious standpoint, but from a marketing standpoint of think about how many choices of brands that people have to buy jeans from, that the market is so competitive that this can be another layer to differentiate yourself from the competitors because your competitors are not using this technology. So that's another leg up in a competitive market. And, and she seemed like she was thinking about that as well, but I communicated that to let her know, like this could be just another way.

Heidi [00:42:06]:
Okay, so you told her about it but didn't tell her who it was. Then the contract got signed and turned into a trip for you out to LA to do an on site visit, talk about how that all came to fruition.

Jacqueline [00:42:21]:
So she, she's going to be traveling a lot coming up here. So before she leaves for LA at the end of this month, at the end of July, she wanted to meet with them in person. And my contact at the factory or at the company, they said like, yeah, we're, we'd love to meet your client as, as long as you're there. Because she's like, I like, I like you. And I had asked the company, how are you deciding which people and brands to work with? And they want to diversify and work with bigger brands, medium brands, small brands and startups. And she also said, we really want to work with people that are not a total pain in the ass.

Heidi [00:43:11]:
No PETA clients?

Jacqueline [00:43:13]:
Yeah, they don't want to work with PETA clients. And I said, that's great because I hate working with PETA clients too. And I had told my client, like, that's kind of how it's not the only thing, but that's also how they're deciding who to work with. And so, and I told my client she wants to meet with us in person as long as I'm there. So that I knew that I needed to bridge that gap between this factory and the client and be that one to bring them together. And we can do a million things over zoom and online, but there's no true replacement for being in person. And both my client and the factory, I knew that they would see that as a level of commitment of I want to work with you. And my client wanted to meet in LA as well with the factory.

Jacqueline [00:44:18]:
And so I flew out there on Tuesday.

Heidi [00:44:23]:
Okay, today's Saturday, today's Saturday.

Jacqueline [00:44:25]:
I flew out there on Tuesday and we met on Wednesday. Then after the meeting with the factory, my client and I went back to a coffee shop downtown to debrief and talk about everything. I asked her what she thought about how the meeting went. And then I had left that whole rest of the day open for her if she, you know, had other questions or if we wanted to do anything else. And the more that we talked. This is at the coffee shop after the factory. The more we were talking about the project and what she wanted to do. She was like, oh, I wonder if we could go try on some jeans at Reformation or at Kate or some other brands.

Jacqueline [00:45:13]:
And I was like, yeah, maybe we should just go try on jeans together.

Heidi [00:45:18]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:45:18]:
And we ended up spending the whole rest of the day together.

Heidi [00:45:21]:
Oh, just like shopping.

Jacqueline [00:45:23]:
Yeah. We were doing a lot of. Of research, like, what she likes in this fit from this brand, why this doesn't work, why this weight doesn't work, why this wash doesn't work, or why she likes this. So we went to a few different stores that kind of were a bit of a range of price point. We went to Reformation. We went to a designer store, Anine being. I don't know if you.

Heidi [00:45:52]:
I don't know it.

Jacqueline [00:45:53]:
Yeah, yeah. Few different stores. And we tried on jeans for, like, five hours. Oh, my gosh. And to be able to be there in person with your client, like, taking notes as she's like, look at this. I don't like this. Or I like that. This is what.

Jacqueline [00:46:13]:
What I view as designer or this is what I don't like, is totally different than having a meeting online.

Heidi [00:46:23]:
Yeah. With like, here's my mood board or something.

Jacqueline [00:46:25]:
Yeah, right, right.

Heidi [00:46:27]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:46:27]:
And when you have meetings online, you can have your note taker on to recap the call. But, like, to be in person, I'm like, writing things down and making notes because I'm like, this is. I don't have my note taker. Yeah. Yeah. And then we ended up going to dinner and got to know each other a little bit more, like, on a personal level. And then I went back to my hotel and she went home. And it built a level of connection that I wasn't really expecting.

Heidi [00:47:02]:
Oh, yeah.

Jacqueline [00:47:02]:
Because I didn't think we would actually spend the rest of the day together. I figured maybe we'll spend another hour together after the meeting with the factory. But she had left the rest of the day open as well. And it was a really great day.

Heidi [00:47:21]:
Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Sounds like you guys have just great rapport in general.

Jacqueline [00:47:25]:
Yeah, yeah. Because I know that, like, freelancers, they wouldn't necessarily want to spend a whole day with their cl. With some of their clients.

Heidi [00:47:33]:
Certain clients, perhaps.

Jacqueline [00:47:34]:
Yeah, yeah. And to just, like, keep that boundary of, like, you are my client. You know, I just know some freelancers. They're. They're like, I would never want to spend a whole day with my client, but I would, and I did, and with this client, and it was phenomenal. Yeah.

Heidi [00:47:58]:
Now, you told me about a rookie mistake on the travel. Can we talk about it? Because I want to hear some more details.

Jacqueline [00:48:06]:
Yeah, yeah. Um, I am super, super embarrassed about it, but I knew we were.

Heidi [00:48:13]:
Well, you know, I extract all the vulnerabilities out on this podcast, so.

Jacqueline [00:48:17]:
Yes.

Heidi [00:48:17]:
You probably knew I wasn't gonna let you get away without talking about this wood.

Jacqueline [00:48:20]:
Yes.

Heidi [00:48:21]:
Yeah.

Jacqueline [00:48:21]:
Yeah. This segment can be called Mistakes Made so Far.

Heidi [00:48:29]:
That is the journey of life.

Jacqueline [00:48:31]:
Yeah. But this mistake was so beyond rookie.