How to make a living while you’re making a difference.
A weekly show for independent professionals who want to go from six-figures to seven while increasing their impact on the world.
Hello, and welcome to the Business of Authority. I'm Jonathan Stark.
Rochelle Moulton:And I'm Rochelle Moulton.
Jonathan Stark:And today, we are going to kick off 2024. Yay.
Rochelle Moulton:I you know, I love years that have even numbers for some reason. 2024 just sounds like it's gonna be a good one.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. Yeah. Fingers crossed. So, Yeah. So this has become an annual tradition for us where we have a sort of kick off the year episode.
Jonathan Stark:We talk about, You know, things like setting objectives and strategies and what tactics we might try or you might try and, you know, what the focus for the year is going to be. And I think, you know, people seem to like it. It's it's like a good time of year to reset and and think big thoughts like that.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. Yeah. So I'm wondering maybe we should start with, like, what's happening in the world right now.
Jonathan Stark:Mhmm.
Rochelle Moulton:Because, I mean, I guess, we could say this every year, but it does feel like there's a lot in the Swirl. You know, we've got 2 really large wars with no end in sight, which is it's impacting a lot of people. We've got what, I guess, what I would call is excessive softness in the tech startup space. I I was just reading a recent article about How how many gazillions of dollars have been blown up and now 1,000,000 being returned to investors and startups, you know, kind of quietly closing? We've got this, you know, uncertain interest rate and inflation environment.
Rochelle Moulton:So we have kind of all that, But then we have corporate profit margins soaring. So sales are going down, but profit margins are going up because they're changing how they price, which you'll Love and, and the mix of things. And so it's this kind of interesting backdrop. I mean, it's it's it would be easy to Drop. I mean, it's it's it would be easy to sit back and say, oh, things are terrible.
Rochelle Moulton:I can't do, you know, fill in the blank with whatever you were thinking about.
Jonathan Stark:Right. The. My take on that is, like, you know, we're not Nike. We're not not playing a numbers game and and not trying to attract or reach the mass market. So I feel like People like us can be can be super nimble and find really lucrative pockets that are perhaps in spite of whatever is going on in the macro.
Rochelle Moulton:Yes. Niche and play your game.
Jonathan Stark:Right? Like, get yeah. I mean, we're always Beating the drum for specialization and niching down. And this is just one of the one of those examples where like, if you're if you're just generally selling and, you know, average stuff to average people. If you're just selling white T shirts, good luck.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. And and if you have to sell, you know, razor thin margins and you have to make your income based on volume. Like, thank goodness we are not in those kinds of building those kinds of businesses. So So yeah. So I I couldn't agree more.
Jonathan Stark:It's like if the I mean, you know me. I don't read the headlines at all, so I barely know what's going on. But But I do know that, you know, like, in my Slack room, a lot of people do get caught up in it. And like you said, it real things are really happening and impacting people's lives in a very I'm not completely, you know, have my head in the sand, but I just don't look at it constantly. I don't look at it even every day.
Jonathan Stark:Big news I hear and probably on the weekends. I'll catch up on the headlines from the week or whatever. I'm just not constantly depressing myself with things I had no control over.
Rochelle Moulton:You know? You know, if it bleeds, it leads. Mhmm. It's so that's what we bombard ourselves with. And, you know, I I'm not suggesting that we, you know, curl into a ball and not listen to anything, but it you do kinda have to Decide what you let into your consciousness.
Jonathan Stark:Exactly. That's how I it's exactly how I look at it.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. Well, you know, there was, an An article last night. Today is 12th as we're recording, and it was, by Paul Krugman who wrote an opinion piece for the New York Times. And the title was watch what people do, not what they say. And his point in it and the the example he used that I loved is New York City.
Rochelle Moulton:And he said, you know, everybody's saying, oh, the city's dead in terms of action, that it's it's, it's not safe. He said and, yeah, in the daytime, it's quiet because the offices are empty. But he said at nighttime, like, try getting a reservation at a Hot restaurant in New York or going to a bar or, do they still have discos? I don't know.
Jonathan Stark:Disco. I
Rochelle Moulton:was thinking like a dance party, you know, like dance club. A club. Thank you. Alright. I'm not old enough to have gone to studio 54 just
Jonathan Stark:for the record. No. We know. You guys set in jumpsuits still.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. Right. It's in there somewhere. But yeah. But, like, when you think about that, it's a really interesting way to look at at clients.
Rochelle Moulton:Like it's easy to go, oh, well, the headlines say everybody's down, but then you have a client where it's just the opposite. They're trying, you know, to do a thing that you happen to specialize in, and they need your help now. And it's they're not really worried about the budget. They're worried about the outcome.
Jonathan Stark:Right. There are right. So folks like us probably don't need 20 clients. 20 would probably be a lot back when I was consulting. So for anybody who's consulting, a solo consultant, 10 would probably be as much as you could handle in the year.
Jonathan Stark:And if your if your niche has 10,000, Probably, in a normal distribution, there are ones that are having a year that looks like the headlines. But at both ends, there's gonna be people who are, not in that same situation. You just don't need 10,000 customers. You'd probably just need a handful of good clients who are, in spite of whatever's going on in the macro environment are having a great year. Think of the headlines from the last few years of COVID, and and it was just pure doom and gloom.
Jonathan Stark:I had a bunch of students who had their best years ever.
Rochelle Moulton:Mhmm.
Jonathan Stark:It's just unevenly distributed. So yeah. So I guess we're just hammering on the drum of, like, don't don't let the headlines bum you out too much because almost certainly, There are exceptions to the rule for whom you could provide a lot of value, create positive impact, and they pay handsomely for it.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. It's kind of like finding that little pocket. And when I say little, it can actually have a lot of revenue in there. I mean, I've got a couple clients that are in. They do they serve a somewhat similar industry.
Rochelle Moulton:And for 1, 2024 is probably gonna be Their most amazing year financially yet. And for the other one, not so sure. Right? 2023 was a really tough, tough year. So, you know, sometimes and I'm not suggesting that that you have to pivot the way a lot of us did in, In 2020.
Rochelle Moulton:But it might be that you just renew your focus in a particular portion of your niche too.
Jonathan Stark:Mhmm. And I I feel like we talked about this recently, but it might have been I might have been talking to somewhere else because I'm always talking. But Shaking up your product mix for the existing niche can also be an interesting thing to do.
Rochelle Moulton:Yes.
Jonathan Stark:And it's perhaps a segue into what I'm thinking about for my focus for this year, but before we get there, like, I've talked to people who are like, look. People are just people are just gasping at my price points for my normal stuff. And it's like, we'll make something new that is lower cost to them, lower cost to you that you can price profitably for both parties and shake it up. Try something different. Do a little experiment.
Rochelle Moulton:Well, you know, that's the Pia Silva story. Right? Because they were The story she tells us that they had a bunch of $30,000 design projects that were going nowhere. Mhmm. And They had a light bulb moment, and they switched it to either 2,000 or $5,000 projects, called all the $30,000 people, said, hey.
Rochelle Moulton:That's off The table. But, hey, if you want, I have this other one. She closed every single one. Right? And, obviously, if you think something's gonna be 30,000 and all of a sudden 2 or 5.
Rochelle Moulton:Mhmm. It feels like bargain basement time. I'll take 1. Right? But sometimes I think we just have to, like, flip a switch And really look at it differently and throw out our old assumptions about what works and try something new.
Jonathan Stark:Mhmm. Yeah. So speaking of trying something new, what What
Rochelle Moulton:are you gonna try?
Jonathan Stark:2024. Yeah. So In to be transparent about it, we're actually recording this before Christmas, so I think both of us are still in advance of that kind of quiet period when these thoughts kinda solidify, at least for me.
Rochelle Moulton:Yes. Yeah. Me too. I like having that that extra week between Christmas and New Year's where Mhmm. You know, the only tugs on me are are personal.
Jonathan Stark:Right. And that's when it just sort of naturally happened. It it has always kind of naturally happened for me at that time of the year. It's just, you know, New Year's and renewal and all of that stuff and, like, the the post holiday kinda kinda I was gonna say hangover, but glow, like, just like, okay. Yeah.
Rochelle Moulton:Glow sounds better than Hangover.
Jonathan Stark:Right. Right. But but I've been really conscious about it this year because some of the episodes we recorded leading up to this, and and and being almost, like, hovering above myself, kind of observing my process for, like, what what are the things that end up feeding into that probably late night session where I'm just, like, brain dumping into a text document. And I have been noticing, It's kind of like looking back and saying, like, okay, what was the plan for this year? What worked?
Jonathan Stark:What didn't work? Did it work? How did it work overall? How happy am I with it across a variety of factors? You know, like How many days were Superfund and energized?
Jonathan Stark:How many weren't? How was revenue of course? How's The subscribership looking on the mailing list, those are my basic metrics. You know, maybe a half a dozen things. Note with this new information that I didn't have at the beginning last year or this year, it's confusing, beginning of 2023, then what would, What would be more fun?
Jonathan Stark:Like, what would be fun to try? What do I think would energize me? And they're like they're a series of things, little things that have little irons in the fire that have that I always have going on. And look kinda like looking at those and being like, which ones of those would be would be the fun one to take out and hammer into our shoe? Like, what's which ones of these would be fun given all of the information from 2023, and, like, how things went.
Jonathan Stark:Plus what would be fun to work on that I think would improve whatever situation in 2023 was. And, Yeah. And I'm starting to I'm starting to feel it coalesce. I'm starting to feel it coalesce around some things to do and, like, what the what the umbrella focus might be for the year.
Rochelle Moulton:Oh, yeah. We talked about that offline last week. I'm I'm excited to see this.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. And was the point the point of even describing that is that it's not like I just woke up, and I know that, you know, it's not It's not like magic. It's just I'm just sensitive to the just everything that's going on and my compass of, like, What would be fun? What would I be excited to get out of bed to work on that, perhaps could contribute to continued impact and success in 2024. And looking back, do you want me to, I guess I could dive in?
Jonathan Stark:Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so for me looking back over 2020, 22 for me was a lot of automation where I wanted to be able to do a lot of course launches, one every month pretty much. And that was just way way too too complicated to do manually or without hiring someone. So I finally settled on a process to automate the the sort of marketing and delivery of a workshop every month. So that was really fun, actually, because I got to build a bunch of stuff even though it's it's not really technically client facing because That it's automated is not obvious.
Jonathan Stark:It's it could be not automated. It's not like a robot's doing it. So it was really fun because I get to code, which I love doing. I love I don't code for money anymore, but I still like doing it for myself. Mhmm.
Jonathan Stark:And so that was super fun. And, and then at the end of that year, I was like, okay, I've got these systems set up, they're working, I could Literally ten x the number of people who go through any of these workshops. So for 2020 three. My plan was to increase awareness. So it was like top of funnel stuff so that more people would be aware.
Jonathan Stark:You know, more people Mostly bill by the hour. Be become aware of the hourly billing is nuts stuff, and then get on my list. That was my big thing. It's, like, do stuff top of funnel to get people on my list. Not even buy anything.
Jonathan Stark:Just get them on the list, and eventually that will trickle down into enough people buying stuff that I can continue to Keep doing that. And in retrospect, I did not enjoy that at all. It was not it was not fun. It wasn't bad. I didn't it wasn't torturous with some exceptions, like dorking around with Instagram and a little bit with LinkedIn.
Jonathan Stark:I don't enjoy that, but I I got that I got LinkedIn in particular down to a very quick weekly batch process that, It's it's it's not fun, but it doesn't take me enough time to even worry about it. It's like 5 minutes and but but the whole the whole thing, that some of the tactics were like go on more podcasts, put more stuff on YouTube, put more stuff on social, do more sort of virtual speaking engagements online and or remotely. And I guess with the exception of those, Those are fun, but there were there were hardly any of those. I maybe did 3 of those last year, maybe 4. Doing the podcast tour thing is tedious, You know, getting booked on people's
Rochelle Moulton:shows is tedious. Yeah. Doing them is fun. Getting them is tedious.
Jonathan Stark:Right. I love doing them, But getting them is just a real it's tough to automate and do well. It's it's easy to imagine outsourcing it, but I've got some people that Do that and that's not great either, and just all of that all of that stuff is like It just wasn't fun. It's just not fun. Not a fun way to spend time.
Jonathan Stark:And as a consequence, I didn't so I couldn't automate it, and I don't Really enjoyed doing it, so I did a poor job of keeping up with it.
Rochelle Moulton:There's a lesson in that for us all.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. Sure. It's like, I just know If I'm not enjoying it, I'm not gonna do it. It's, you know, like I always I'm always talking about, like, does this to do that I'm procrastinating on? Does it really need to get done or can I just delete it?
Jonathan Stark:So there's stuff like that, and since it was mostly about top of funnel stuff and increasing awareness and promoting and all of that, I didn't make anything and that actually from our conversation last week, I realized that. I realized that. I was like, oh, I get a lot of energy. I love making things. Super fun.
Rochelle Moulton:Super fun.
Jonathan Stark:Right. And I I don't Think I made one thing. I can't think of 1 thing I made in 2023. I didn't build any automation. I was just like running manual systems.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. I don't think I made anything. Just, you know, I I wrote every day, but I didn't make, like, a course. I don't think I don't think I did.
Rochelle Moulton:Build. Maybe that's Build. Yeah. Build something.
Jonathan Stark:I didn't build anything. And, well, other than a bathroom.
Rochelle Moulton:Bathroom. Yeah. I think it all went into that one that one room.
Jonathan Stark:It really did. And and as we discussed, I was in my somewhere between incompetency zone and competency zone for that whole project, which was not energizing. Yeah. Like, I didn't build anything in my genius zone at all in 2023. I cannot think of anything.
Jonathan Stark:Maybe I did. Maybe there was something at the beginning of the year or something. But It was really like, okay, I'm gonna let I'm gonna let the system do its thing and just get more people aware of the message, the mission, and get him into the system. I got a ton of people, new people in Ditcherville, so, I mean, like, things it worked, but it wasn't fun.
Rochelle Moulton:It's like an operational or executional year. Right?
Jonathan Stark:Yes. Exactly.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. And sometimes we need some of those, but it doesn't mean it's gonna be fun.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. It was it wasn't not fun. It was just like I I just wasn't feeling energized. I felt very not energized by the, you know, the fall. So one new thing I did during the end of the year was that 360 engagement, I think I've talked about on the show where I went deep deep deep into one particular student's business, like behind the scenes financials and everything, and that was really fun, and I was like okay that was really fun, and there was particular pieces of it that I'm like, oh this would A cool workshop that I think would be fun, it could turn into a book, it could turn into a lot of different things, it's just like a new planet in my solar system, and it's like, oh That could be cool.
Jonathan Stark:So so as of right now, and I I haven't had my sort of contemplative post holiday, brains brain dump, but it's feeling like I definitely want to be building, it feels like building things is gonna be It's gonna be the the core, some some version of that is gonna be the core focus and and perhaps, I've certainly found this in the past, Sometimes launching new things actually increases awareness because people talk about new stuff.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. Jeff Walker talks about that in his book in his launch book. It's yeah. It's it well, he calls it a hot list, but I I like to think of it as just new gets attention. It it almost doesn't matter if it's something they like or not, but it It draws new people, new energy to you.
Rochelle Moulton:Rose email list.
Jonathan Stark:Right. So building stuff, perhaps, this is just the hypothesis, Perhaps it will increase awareness in a way that, would be way more fun and, you know, than cold emailing people to come on their podcast. Yeah. So maybe 2 birds with 1 stone because then I know I know that'll be a lot more fun. Mhmm.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. So that that feels exciting. I can and and again, just expose the process to the listener, I'm just I'm like just picturing it and sort of sensing my reaction, and it sounds like fun.
Rochelle Moulton:Mhmm.
Jonathan Stark:And it's, it's not it's not some hobby thing. It's not like I just, like, What am I I'm trying to draw a distinction between just engaging in activities that I find pleasing versus, You know, that's that's a super set of all the things I could spend my time doing, all the things that I just find pleasing. And then there's a subset of that that is specifically around my business that theoretically or hypothetically could further my agenda. Right? So I'm not I'm not saying, like, like, listen to your gut and just do whatever you think is fun or you're passionate about.
Jonathan Stark:I'm like, no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying, like, what makes sense strategically based on my overall objective to rid the world of hourly billing? What makes sense for this year to focus on? And that narrows down, that whittles down to there's probably only, I don't know, fewer than 10 things that I would even think of to consider, probably not even 10, and then say, like, okay.
Jonathan Stark:Of these, which one seems the most fun? So it's not just a whole, like, oh, maybe this year I'll just practice my tornado kick all year. Like, that's not you know? That would
Rochelle Moulton:be for that.
Jonathan Stark:That would be energizing, but it's not gonna further my objective.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. And I think, you know, as I'm listening to you and, you know, I've experienced this with you through the course of the last few years, it's like I think there is a lesson for The listener. Really for all of us in this because we have years where what we're doing is sort of digesting The things that we did from the year before. Like, you you might have a high growth year that took you away from a plateau. And that plateau could be a revenue plateau, Or it could be the kind of work that you're doing.
Rochelle Moulton:Like, you felt stuck, like, in this plateau. And so then you, you know, you go up a notch and it's not surprising that there is that sort of year. Like, okay. I have all these programs. I need to I need to systematize them.
Rochelle Moulton:I need to have this, you know, make sense. I mean, you know, you started That is a coder. Like, of course, that's your job. Right? Or was your job is, like, to make order out of chaos and make things work.
Rochelle Moulton:So It's like that's probably, like, your your set point. Right? You always wanna come back to that. Yeah. And I think a lot of us, even if we're not wired that way, Most of us don't wanna run our business like our hair is on fire.
Jonathan Stark:Mhmm.
Rochelle Moulton:Right? And we'll we'll put up with it for a while. Maybe we'll even really love it For a little while, but long term, you know, we're looking because we're doing these businesses not only for the money, but for the impact and the free time and the flexibility, and we don't have that if we're, you know, 90 miles an hour with our hair on fire. Mhmm. So it's it's that's what it feels like is there's always this time where we just sort of Integrate everything that we've done, and then we get ready to do the next leap.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. So is that so where are you at in this process?
Rochelle Moulton:Well, I I still need that week to really sit back, but I think my my theme is feeling like it's expansion. As and I you notice, like, the last few episodes, I keep saying the upward spiral the upward spiral. That's kind of where I'm At I mean, for me, I spent 2022, testing and developing and rolling out, my first mastermind, And that was for soloist women, and that was really cool. Loved doing that, creating something new. I love that it was a group thing, whereas most of my things I've done some group things, but, really, most of my revenue came from 1 to 1.
Rochelle Moulton:And then in 2023, I decided what I really wanted to do is I wanted to kinda double down on the The the soloist women thing. But I wasn't sure at the beginning of the year what that looked like. And by the middle of the year, I realized, oh, it's a podcast. Right. And so that was the creating something new or building something new.
Rochelle Moulton:And so that was super fun, and it It hit against some of my own limits. Right? It was like, oh, do I wanna put my voice out there in this way? You know, do I wanna, like, deal with all the stuff that comes with focusing on 1 gender? Like, do I wanna go there?
Rochelle Moulton:So I went through Oh, that. So it did it it it was fun, but it was also it really pushed me to expand, And I like that. And I was originally thinking that this might be the year of connection, but I think that's that was my theme for last year. And I certainly did it. And I thought, you know, this is about expansion.
Rochelle Moulton:And expansion in terms of it's not just revenue, and that's that's Certainly part of it, but it's expansion in terms of the impact that I can make out in the world. It's expansion in terms of the people that I know, and that I meet in the course of this work and how I can, kinda collaborate with them to get the places where our messages intersect out into the world and really Get people to realize that being a soloist is a worthy profession and that you don't have to listen To all of the noise out there about how many employees you have to hire and how you have to grow, grow, grow at all costs. And so yeah. It's it's really I was thinking about this when you were talking too. It's really about, you know, how do we further our revolution?
Rochelle Moulton:And the way I've described it for the other podcast is and it could apply to this one too for that matter. It's turn your expertise into wealth And impact. But where wealth is revenue, free time, and flexibility. Right? It's not just money, and it's it's how you Balance.
Rochelle Moulton:It's the balance of those 3 that each of us in our own way define as wealth, and All of our definitions are different. But I just love this idea that wealth is about more than money, and that it's okay To use the word, that it doesn't mean that we are some, like, slimy, like, bootlicking, you know, terrible capitalist. You know, it's okay to want to build wealth for yourself, for your family, for, the people that you wanna help in the world. So it's really those, and I think the other thing is that I really would I like this upward spiral. And I think if if we, follow Gaye Hendricks' teachings on this, he's the one that that gave me the term, it's Become so easy to put limits on our success.
Rochelle Moulton:And we do it sometimes without thinking. We sabotage. Like, we have a great day at the office, then we go home and we pick a fight with our spouse or partner. Right? We we do that, and I I think this is the year I wanna be really, really conscious of anything that gets in the way of the upward spiral.
Rochelle Moulton:Like, what could I do that would just keep this going up? Right? And I like to think of it as it's not just me. Although, obviously, you know, I'm the one playing with this and thinking about it and how do I make a living at this. But it's really about how that idea of, building wealth and impact from your expertise.
Rochelle Moulton:How does that get out there? How can I have more people who are receptive to it, hear the message, and make the change that they wanna make?
Jonathan Stark:Yeah? More impact and all the things that come with it. How do you detect like, if that were if that's If that started to solidify, right, like, how would you detect what things you would do to contribute to that? Is it the same with me where you're just like you can just tell what would be fun, or is there some other metric?
Rochelle Moulton:Well, Yeah. That's interesting. I I do think I can tell what would be fun, but I can't always tell what's going to spark where. Right? And so, you know, the example I use is that, Jenny Blake is guesting on the episode that it will have dropped by the time this episode airs, but she's It drops on the 14th December, and I had so much Fun with that.
Rochelle Moulton:I loved her book. I must have bought 10 books that she recommended in her book. I think I bought a couple of pieces of software. It turns out that someone in my circle is actually a friend of hers, and she was mentioned in the book. I reached out to her.
Rochelle Moulton:The next thing I know, you know, she's on the show. Generous interview. She's doing some really interesting different things. I mean, that's an example where that felt expansive. You know, does it go anywhere else?
Rochelle Moulton:It it doesn't have to. I mean, maybe it will. I don't know. But it's it feels expansive. It feels like that was a good thing.
Rochelle Moulton:Now I could have that same feeling with someone who doesn't have a big audience, who doesn't have a couple of top ranked podcasts where, they share a story that I I can feel resonating. Like, I my my my sign is that when I get Goosebumps when somebody tells me either, like, a direction they wanna go or something that happened to them like that. That's usually when I think, okay. If I'm getting goosebumps, other people are going to resonate with this too, and that all feels, you know, expansive. Right?
Rochelle Moulton:And, you know, I was thinking when you said you know, you looked at your list and you have this thing that you're procrastinating about. I had one of those yesterday.
Jonathan Stark:Oh, yeah.
Rochelle Moulton:That I've it's been on my list. I was on their calendar, and they kept changing the The the call that was gonna be recorded. And I think it got changed, like, 6 times. And I finally just said, you know, I just I just really don't wanna do this now. And, and so but I still had it on my list because I was like, oh, you know, I Owe it to the soulless women concept to go on this platform and talk about it.
Rochelle Moulton:You know, I should make myself do this. And so I still had it on the list. I was looking at it yesterday and I so I clicked on the thing and I said, alright. You either have to, you know, do this or take it off the list. And I looked at the site, and I went, I don't wanna do this.
Rochelle Moulton:And so I took it off my list, and I had the email. I'm now at I Finally got to inbox 0. I'm there. I'm gonna stay there. And I looked at the email.
Rochelle Moulton:Like, I'm like, alright. Where do I file this? And he went, I don't file it. I don't wanna do this. I hit delete.
Rochelle Moulton:And I guess that's the point. So so in that case, it would have been expansive, Theoretically. Right? This is someone with a a really big audience, but I just wasn't feeling it. And it wasn't about my ego in the 6 times.
Rochelle Moulton:I mean, I won't say that helped, but it was really it was like I just felt like our messages weren't aligned. There wasn't enough overlap in the messaging even though it was a Big female audience. It wasn't the right audience. And I just you know? And it felt so good.
Rochelle Moulton:It was like the last thing I did before I shut down last night, and I'm like, I have to do this more often on the things that just sit there on my list. So, yeah, did that answer your question?
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. It did. I mean, it really is about how you wanna spend your time. So, like like, I don't know if this is I I feel like this Might seem off topic, but to me, it's on topic, which is you were just mentioning wealth and, like, it's not just money. And and I I've A couple of like, retrospectively over the course of this year, there are definitely times where I was just like, you know, like, not jumping out of bed to do podcast outreach or something like that.
Jonathan Stark:And I found myself even in interviews I I had this 1 interview on everyone hates marketers where Louis Grenier asked me something like he's he's he's, he was really, really digging into, like, my revenue and divided by hours that I work. And he was, like, really curious about that, which is his style, so I went there. But I I there's this Offhanded comment that I made. I don't remember making really. I just sort of heard it in the in the replay where I was like I said, I feel like I'm retired, and that's not good.
Jonathan Stark:And it I was like, That was a I'm like, what? There's something in that.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. There's a judgment right there.
Jonathan Stark:There's something going yeah. And I'm like, well, what does like, what do I even think retired means? Because I And I was labeling I I think I was using the word retired in a defeatist kind of way, like a like, you know, you're in the locker room after the game, and that's it. Because that's how it felt when I said it. That's how it sounded when I said it.
Jonathan Stark:And I was like, but what did I mean? And And it so I feel like I feel like I achieved lots of free time last year and the year before. But the wealth comes from not it's free time's not sufficient for me because the things that I fill up my time with are not in my genius zone. So I end up with a whole bunch of time spent doing barely competent stuff. And I never picture retirement anywhere near anyone's genius zone, which may be not true, but that's the way I picture it.
Rochelle Moulton:Mhmm.
Jonathan Stark:Where it's like, you know, the typical not quite margaritas on the beach, but, you know, all of my parents and in laws, they're all been retired a long time. And they all seem happy or whatever, but I wouldn't want the lifestyles that they have. Mhmm. And, like, My dad and and Erica's dad, classic young boomer, 35 year career at the same Fortune 500. Mhmm.
Jonathan Stark:The the typical climb the corporate ladder thing and, like, pop out the top with a golden parachute or whatever. And and I'm like, you know? So this year felt like there were times this year that felt like this hazy definition of retirement that was unappealing. So I knew something was off, and I'm like, what is it? And then, you know, actually, I think it was after we Stopped recording last week when I realized that it was the the wealth and the the energy and, like, what we want the free time for Isn't to just have free time?
Jonathan Stark:It sounds so obvious now that I'm saying it out loud, but it was not obvious to to my gut instinct, where I was like, oh, I don't want to spend my days with nothing to do so I can just float around and do whatever I want. I would rather spend more time doing stuff that I just it just the only word has energized me, like, the stuff I wanna jump out of bed to do. So, like, whether or not that looks like or as categorized as work becomes immaterial, but I didn't I wasn't looking at it like that before.
Rochelle Moulton:Well, you know, here's the The non shrink listening to this and saying it's it was the impact perhaps. Right? Because, you know, when you when you did the bathroom as an example, It had a huge impact on a very small group of people. But it right? But it it was big.
Rochelle Moulton:But, you know, when when you're Doing your day job, if you will. You know, you're looking at impacting a much larger group of people, and there's something about the impact that can relate to to the energizing for some people.
Jonathan Stark:Sure.
Rochelle Moulton:Not everybody's driven by that. And, you know, I live in a town where we have, A lot of retirees. And there are retirees who like, there's one who's, you know, in her late seventies and traveling to, meet a business client and, you know, working, as as well as, you know, going to the pool every day at 3 o'clock. I mean, she balances both of those. And then there's some because Palm Springs is kind of a happy party town who you know, it's all about, you know, having drinks at the pool every day.
Rochelle Moulton:And so yeah. There you know, just like there's a gazillion definitions of retirement, I think there's a gazillion definitions of how you wanna make an impact. And it's like we could have a Great financial year. And if we're driven by impact, if impact energizes us and we're not feeling like we're doing that, You know, wouldn't be surprising that it would kinda feel like low energy.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So in case it wasn't clear, the I'm just I just keep hammering on the same point. It's like the freedom to do energizing things.
Jonathan Stark:It completely boils down to how you feel. Right? It's like And and that's not intangible. It's the most tangible thing.
Rochelle Moulton:It's your source of energy to do all the things you have to do in your life. If you're not energizing yourself, if you're not feeding the machine, you know, putting the logs in
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. The battery's low. It just feels low. And so so, like, thinking about so to get back to planning for the year, so this is where I'm trying to trying to land a plane, is is, like, for people listening, it's like, what would charge you up? What Activities could you do during the day that would further your mission and potentially reach your objective, not that you won't tweak it and and course correct along the way.
Jonathan Stark:But a great starting point for me is to to know what kinds of things would charge me up during the day and then and then look for an overlap in the Venn diagram of, like, stuff that's gonna increase my wealth and impact and that I don't have to force myself to do every day.
Rochelle Moulton:Genius zone.
Jonathan Stark:Right. Yeah. Yeah. But if you think of it if you just think of it on, like, I'm trying to I'm trying to bring it down to a really micro level where it's like, what would it like, if you get out of bed tomorrow or, like, planning for your day, like, what would make you Jump out of bed. Just, like, can't wait to, like, not hit the snooze, skip the shower, go straight to the computer or whatever.
Jonathan Stark:Like, what are the what's that list of things? And then is there some way what is the path from where you are to spending your days like that in the future? It's not this it's it's to me, it's like almost the opposite of being like, I wanna make $1,000,000 next year, or I wanna have this much money in the bank. Like this just goal thing
Rochelle Moulton:Mhmm.
Jonathan Stark:That doesn't it does does not work for me in the moment.
Rochelle Moulton:Well, you know, I think there's research around, you know, goals that are Tied to your emotions and what you really want to achieve big picture are the ones that are most likely to be Accomplished. Sure. Right?
Jonathan Stark:If you set up systems around that. I I think I agree with that. I do agree with that.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. I mean, big picture. I mean, those are the things because those are the things we wanna do, like, you know, crossing off the going on a show I really didn't wanna go It's finding those things, and that's what does lead us to our genius zones. And it's not like we sit up on the mountain top and go, Oh, this is my genius. I mean, if you've been doing something long enough, you may be able to, like, you know, jot it down pretty quickly, But you might not know yet.
Rochelle Moulton:You might be in a stage where you feel like you're getting up every morning. You got your to do list, and you're like, Ugh. Yeah. Ugh. You know?
Rochelle Moulton:And so you know something needs to change. So one way to look at that is just start looking at the to do list. Change at the bottom, at the simplest place that you can start, which is what's on your to do list. And I will tell you right now, I I got so much energy from just taking That one thing off that damn list.
Jonathan Stark:Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. All of a sudden, you're like, oh, that was really on my back.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. Well, you know, and I'm in the middle of reading the, Getting Things Done, the 20 I think it's a 2015 update. But Mhmm. I I wanted to see, like, How his system jived with mine. And, yeah.
Rochelle Moulton:And so I put some of those things on a separate list. And when I did that, It was it really called attention to the things that, you know, didn't spike my excitement meter.
Jonathan Stark:Mhmm. Yeah.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. I
Jonathan Stark:think we talked last time about, like, Marie Kondo, your schedule, or maybe that was my
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. Yeah. Did we invent that? Yeah. I think I think we talked about that.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. So I don't think it's woo to say, like to be able to just, like, follow your Feelings I mean, it's a combination of
Rochelle Moulton:things, but I I just just say that?
Jonathan Stark:I know.
Rochelle Moulton:Did you just say that?
Jonathan Stark:It's true, though.
Rochelle Moulton:Jonathan, sir, I'm noting this down. December 12, 2023.
Jonathan Stark:Right. For folks who for folks who I just have no clue because I've talked to tons of them. Like, I could do a 1000000 things. I I can't pick 1. I don't know Who I wanna help?
Jonathan Stark:Like, there's it's just like there's but there are a lot of different ways into this. Whatever you measure success by, there are a lot of ways into it. It's like okay. So a possible foot in the door into a direction for the year or or otherwise is just being super micro and just paying attention to how you feel about your activities, your day, like, each thing that's that you have, you know, scheduled in the afternoon. And am I looking forward to this or not?
Jonathan Stark:It really boils down to that. It's like, am I looking forward to this meeting or this to do or this project or not? Am I excited or not? And I guess it's just same old Genius Zone concept, but if you don't know where to start I'm
Rochelle Moulton:I'm laughing because it's exactly why I'm working on a genius zone time challenge because we don't do this if we don't If we don't do it, if we don't do it. It's like we have we have to pay attention to it before we'll actually make a change. It's like it has to hit into the conscious level of what we're doing that is definitely outside the genius zone.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. I just I I just heard this quote the other day. I'm not sure who said it was old, Old self help y kinda quote where the interviewee said something like, you know, you gotta get your thoughts right. You gotta you gotta know what you're thinking. Get control over your thoughts.
Jonathan Stark:And the guy said, yeah. Because thoughts control your actions. And then the interviewee said, well, thoughts control your feelings, and your feelings control your actions. And I was like, oh. First of all, I agree with that, and second of all, that's a really important distinction.
Jonathan Stark:Yeah. And we I think we talked last time about how As you get older and the number of responsibilities that you take on increases, it can become harder and harder to even remember or notice How any of it's making you feel because you're all do you're doing a lot of it or all of it for outside reasons, for other people, And these are just responsibilities that you've, I don't wanna say encumbered yourself with, but, you know, you're you're doing them for in abstraction. The reason that you're doing them is an abstraction or, like, a one one step removed. So if you if you can't, If you're really bad at sensing, even knowing when you're in your genius zone is kinda what I'm saying. It's like if if you had no clue where that is or what it is, I would just, like, start looking at look at your calendar, look at your to do list, what are you excited about doing.
Jonathan Stark:Hopefully, the answer isn't nothing, But there's something or even if even if the answer is nothing, just look back the past year or 2. Like, what did you completely Get deep work done or get deep focus or lose time or, you know, just really, really had fun doing and just looking for clues. I'm just I'm just trying to find a bottom up way for someone listening who's just just not not knowing what to do. I always wanna give people some kinda, like, tactical advice.
Rochelle Moulton:Well, I think what happens is we say yes because in the moment, Like, yes sounds really good. But then a week later, a day later, a month later, when you have to actually deliver on the thing you said yes to, all of a sudden we're like, Why didn't I say yes to that? Yeah. So I think what can happen is that our our to do list get cluttered with things for other people Or as you said, for for other agendas that, like, we just don't really care about. Mhmm.
Rochelle Moulton:And so I think that there's a lot of us, women in particular, are socialized to say, okay. Of course, I'll do that because nobody else I mean, it's what I did in my HOA is, It's like nobody else stepped up, so I did. Right? It was like somebody had to. I guess it's gonna be me.
Rochelle Moulton:Right? So we do that, and then we look in With dismay at our to do list and go, how did this happen? Right. You know? How did I agree to make cookies for this or deliver, you know, hot meals Over here or and, you know, and and, you know, the equivalent in your professional life.
Rochelle Moulton:So yeah. I mean, I just think that clarity And the you know? So look for where the emotions are. Look for where you'll you you really love something, and look for the opposite. Look for look at something that you're dreading.
Jonathan Stark:Dread.
Rochelle Moulton:And, you know, I guarantee in most cases, not all, but in most Cases, the thing that you dread might be in somebody else's genius zone.
Jonathan Stark:Mhmm.
Rochelle Moulton:It might be they might love to take it off your hands, you know, if in fact it even needs to be done. It might be, like, my thing where you could just cross it off and, you know, nobody does.
Jonathan Stark:Right. Yeah. So I don't know. Is this how is this helpful for, like, for folks kicking off the 2024? You know, this is more art than science.
Jonathan Stark:I don't think either one of us have a real it'd be hard to make a SOP for this, like a checklist or repeatable process. Just like a it's an exploration retrospectively and sort of, like, projecting into the future around how you're gonna feel going throughout your day, every day for the rest of the year. It's it's just that's just it. And if you can get closer and closer every day or every week or every month or every year to improving the way you feel every day, like, then like, that's where it's at. It's not like success has to be delayed, and someday you'll be rich and and retired like I was talking about before.
Jonathan Stark:Oh, now I can finally be happy. It's like, no. You're not gonna be happy unless you've learned how to be happy.
Rochelle Moulton:Be happy now.
Jonathan Stark:Be happy now. Right? And and, of course, you can't just Change your to do list or your calendar overnight. It takes time. So if you're not jazzed about what's on your calendar right now, It's gonna probably take time.
Jonathan Stark:There's probably some things you could just cancel, then I'm not doing these weekly check ins anymore, or I'm gonna switch them to biweekly, Or these daily stand ups are just a waste of time. Let's switch to weekly. And just just get some of those things that drain you off your plate, especially anything recurring, and then slowly start putting stuff in there that contributes to your success or your goals, but that you're looking forward to and energizes you.
Rochelle Moulton:Well and then just to circle back to the point we made at the very beginning, you know, when we were talking about Headlines and, you know, all the messages that are bomb bombarding you from all sorts of different sources is, You know, niche well and play your game. Right? It's not about what somebody else did to be successful. It's about what you wanna do for to make your impact with your people using your expertise.
Jonathan Stark:Mhmm. Yep. Follow the goosebumps into these pockets of pockets of value creation, I guess I would say.
Rochelle Moulton:Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan Stark:Alright. That's enough woo out of me. Put a
Rochelle Moulton:pen in that woo.
Jonathan Stark:I sense our first, coffee cup, our March. Follow your feelings. It's like a scripty font.
Rochelle Moulton:I think it should be follow your woo.
Jonathan Stark:Oh, is that what yeah. Follow follow the woo. God. All the woos down in Woo ville. Alright.
Jonathan Stark:We're losing it. So so this is the end of the year for us, so if you could see.
Rochelle Moulton:Can you tell? Yes. So we have a couple weeks off, And then we have our 1st episode, which will air on New Year's Day. And what better way to start the new year exactly. Listening to us.
Jonathan Stark:Yes. Well, happy New Year, dear listener.
Rochelle Moulton:Absolutely. See you in 2014.
Jonathan Stark:Alright. That's it for this week. I'm Jonathan Stark.
Rochelle Moulton:And I'm Rochelle Moulton.
Jonathan Stark:And we hope you join us again next time for the business of authority. Bye.