Ep. 85: JTF2 Special Forces Sniper and Pathfinder

Shaun Taylor spent his time in the Canadian army as a sniper, pathfinder and in Canada’s elite special forces Joint Task Force 2 (JTF2).  This is an inspirational episode, exploring what it takes to operate at the highest level and how to turn adversity and failure into wins.

 

https://www.instagram.com/shauntaylors/ 

 

https://www.instagram.com/mentalhealthwalks2022/

 

______

Silvercore Club - https://bit.ly/2RiREb4
Online Training - https://bit.ly/3nJKx7U
Other Training & Services - https://bit.ly/3vw6kSU
Merchandise - https://bit.ly/3ecyvk9
Blog Page - https://bit.ly/3nEHs8W

Host Instagram - @Bader.Trav https://www.instagram.com/bader.trav
Silvercore Instagram - @SilvercoreOutdoors https://www.instagram.com/silvercoreoutdoors

____

 

 

What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader and this
it's the silver core podcast.

Silvercore has been providing its
members with a skills and knowledge

necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.

And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

If you enjoy the positive and educational
content we provide, please let others

know by sharing, commenting, and
following so that you can join in on

everything that Silvercore stands for.

If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at Silvercore.ca

today's guest is a entire Canadian
special forces JTF, two sniper.

Dollars the limitations
presented by recording a

podcast remotely into that end.

We've been trying to coordinate
an in-person discussion

for quite some time now.

So here we are another milestone for the
Silvercore podcast recording its first,

both audio and video on location podcast.

Welcome to the silver core podcast.

Sean

Taylor.

Outstanding.

Thanks so

much for having me.

This is amazing.

Thank you so much for
having me into your home.

This is a beautiful
place that you live in.

In fact, I'm a little envious of
the, uh, the city you're in and we're

gonna be checking it out right now.

I think, uh, maybe a move
might be in order in, uh, in

the not too distant future.

We'll see.

Well, let, well, let me know.

I'll be pleased to point you in the
right direction of a moving company.

excellent.

Excellent.

So, you know, I was talking with and
he brought your name up and he had so

many great things to say about you.

And, uh, you really came
onto my radar at that point.

And I started watching your social
media and you have been sharing some

really cool stuff there, stuff about
your background lessons, learned some

positivity, uh, insights on things
that you've seen and encountered

that you can share with others.

And that was one of the big
things that really motivated

me to want to meet with you.

You are obviously very intelligent.

You're thoughtful about what you put out.

You're, uh, you're come across as very
kind and compassionate and all under

this exterior of a warrior, which
is some, a really neat dichotomy.

And.

I also understand that you
are working on a book as well.

And I thought maybe we could have an
opportunity to talk a little bit about

what that might be without spoiling
the, uh, the plot and maybe delve

into a few different areas there.

Sure.

Uh, well, thanks for saying that.

I mean, that's a very, um, generous
and, and thoughtful, um, opening

sequence on, on certainly on me.

I'm not sure I deserve all that praise.

Um, but, uh, in respect to S Lewa,
uh, yeah, he's the man I loves he's.

He's an awesome dude.

And, and, uh, everything that uh, I'm
doing right now is, uh, partially.

Um, because of S and his sound direction
and his, uh, leadership in respect to

just trying to do things better on social
media, be more positive, be a little

more thoughtful as a leader, perhaps.

And, and so I'm just trying to
follow in his footsteps a little bit.

I would say that's, uh, that's pretty

neat.

You know, I'm watching the lives
that, uh, people are affecting around

them both positively and negatively.

And we had a discussion prior to
recording here about some of the

negative things that people can do
that affect other people's lives.

And the ripple effect that'll
have when it comes to the positive

things that people can impart.

Uh, I'm looking at,
like, for example, right.

Nows is doing, uh, mental health walks.

I think they're once
a week or what's that?

Yeah.

Every

Sunday or every second Sunday, but
certainly on the Sundays for sure.

Right.

Uh, I haven't got out to one yet.

I probably should.

I'd really like to, I just, you know,
gotta find the time to do these things.

But that was in, um, In response to
some, something that was negative

that had, had, had happened.

I remember it was on Christmas.

I was talking with him
and like, how you doing?

He's like, not too good.

I'm like, what's going on.

Right.

And he relays a story about somebody
who's having a difficult time who, um, uh,

really should be reaching out to others.

And I was having difficulties
with mental health.

Luckily everything turned out well
for this individual, but, uh, shortly

thereafter sub says, you know, I'm,
I'm gonna just use social media.

I'm gonna reach out through that.

And I'm going to use that to, uh,
uh, have people, um, if, if they

want to talk, if they can DM me, if
they want to, if there's something

I can share from my background, that
might be helpful, we'll use that.

And that kind of morphed into, you
know, maybe just meet in person.

Maybe there's something that we can do.

And I have a feeling that what he's
doing and the commitment he's putting

it in the regularity of having these
mental health walks is probably

gonna have a ripple effect where.

Other people in other locations
start doing the same thing.

Yeah, for sure.

You know, uh, one thing abouts is he
he's a true leader without a doubt.

And he, he's a bit of a visionary as
well and where this mental health walk

goes ultimately is anyone's guess.

But even if it went nowhere,
it's already gone somewhere.

Right.

And so I, what I love abouts is,
um, he got something in his mind

and he started executing against it.

And, and now the rest
will take care of itself.

And not just in the small localized
aspect of the left coast or Vancouver

area, it's, it's much larger than that.

As soon as he pulled the trigger, it,
it was across Canada in, in some way.

Right.

And, and, you know, um, we're
both talking about it right now.

So it's, it's touched us
in its own little way.

And I.

Of course, I'm chatting with a number
of guys on the regular and it's

touched them in a number of ways.

And so ultimately what it turns
into is probably less important

than what it's already done.

I agree.

I agree.

And that was one of the areas that, you
know, we're talking before, I'm looking at

the different podcasts that I've done, and
some I've had some phenomenal people on.

But when you hit those keywords,
uh, Xas X, SBS, JTF two, you put

these little keywords in all of a
sudden it opens up the, the podcast

to, uh, the search algorithm for
people who might be searching for it.

And it opens up the, uh, the spectrum
of people who might be listening to it.

So, uh, you are in the process
of doing something very similar.

You're sharing positivity, you're
sharing your life experiences.

You're talking about, uh, difficulties
and overcoming them, how you spent time

coaching, high level athletes to, uh, on
both physical and mental conditioning.

And, uh, I think given your background.

What you've been through, not only
helps lend credibility, but it helps

lend exposure that, um, it really
helps get your message out there.

Um, I would be interested in
talking a little bit about your

background and then kind of working
that into what you're doing now

and where you see yourself going.

Yeah, sure.

You know, the one thing that I will
start off with saying is you're right.

Um, my background does lend credibility
and I'm hesitant to say that.

In fact, I was struggling to say it, as
I said it and, and it's because it's

a relatively new realization for me.

Uh, I've been told this a number of
times that, uh, my background lends

credibility to some of the things that I
say, but I, I, I struggle with that idea.

Mm-hmm but it's true.

It does.

And the, the titles that I carry.

Um, they do have a larger reach
than I thought they would or

should, but it is what it is.

And so I'm not trying to duck any
of those titles, but I'm trying also

not to capitalize on them either.

I'm just trying to be me.

And as it turns out, some
people are interested in that.

And so that's a good thing.

So I'm

curious, uh, I have my own, uh, thoughts
as to why I P but why the struggle about,

uh, Leaning on the background in order
to help propel the, uh, the positivity

to propel what you're doing right now.

Mm-hmm,

,
that's a great question.

I, I think there's probably no,
one's asked me that question.

So thanks for that.

I, I think there's probably two
reasons is I'm kind of real time

processing an answer for you.

And the first one is easily understood.

And that is, uh, if, if I'm speaking
specifically about JTF two, when we were

coming up in that system, it, we were so
under the radar that, um, you know, it

was an entirely different beast of, uh,
keeping it quiet mm-hmm and so anything

that we did or have done, I've, I've kind.

Put it as part of my DNA to never
discuss that or never use it

in a way that is exploitative.

Right.

I, I would, I would never do that.

Right.

And so the system in a sense, um,
has developed the reality for me that

I just don't talk about it a lot.

Mm.

Uh, if that makes sense.

Oh,

it totally does.

And that, that would be my gut reasoning.

Why you would mm-hmm
have some hesitation.

Now the second part, um, is because my
nature, I, I struggle between, um, things

that I've accomplished and talking about
the things that I've accomplished, because

there's a line where depending on the
audience that you're talking to, where the

more correctly, the person in front of.

Some of the things that I've done in
the past would seem a little crazy

or a little, um, almost unbelievable.

Sure.

For, for lack of a better term, an
average person mm-hmm who has not

used to these kind of crazy things.

And so I've, over the years,
I've tried to tell a tailor too.

And, and oftentimes I'm the other
person on the receiving end.

Their eyes are a bit buggy and
they don't, they don't believe

it, perhaps they don't believe it.

Right.

And so I I've just learned not to
talk too much about some of the things

that I've done or, or some of the, uh,
things that I've seen more correctly.

And, and perhaps, uh, that is a
part of me, uh, part of my DNA.

I'm not sure, but to
your point, I'm learning.

Over the last little while through
this social media process, that I've

gotta find a better balance between
telling a story without telling

too much of the story, I suppose.

Yeah.

That's a, you know, some of the, there's
some authors out there, I forget what

Andy McNabb's real name was, but right.

But he, he was one of the first
guys that came out writing in

immediate action and bra Bravo two,
zero, and a few other books, man,

that guy's a storyteller, right.

That's right.

Like, and he can, he can tell
a, a spin, a good yarn without

giving away a bunch of stuff.

But I think he came under a whole ton
of heat as well during that process.

And now it seems more normal normalized
for people who have gone through a special

forces root to be able to talk about
it afterwards, but it's still got that.

Um, Uh, I, I think there's gotta be a
social stigma associated with it as well.

I think so.

And you know, I don't wanna, um,
create a conversation around perhaps

some of the teams that are out there
versus the teams here in Canada.

I, I, I'm gonna try not to make
that comparison, but to your.

Specific point about, uh, Bravo two zero.

Um, I do recall this may
or may not have happened.

Mm-hmm and I'm just gonna say that.

Sure.

I do recall, uh, allegedly I do recall
one of our guys, uh, PO possibly heading

over to the UK to possibly, uh, deal
or, or work with another organization

in the UK and coming back with a Bravo
two, zero book signed by Andy and,

uh, and he just put it right up in
my face and said, check that out.

And I was like, what?

Cuz I really enjoyed the
book when it came out.

It was one of the forerunners of
that almost mystique, um, story.

And so, you know, These kind of
early front running books were

phenomenal for, for what they did.

They, they kind of created a entirely
new world for some people mm-hmm . Um,

but in those early days, I think the
pacing of the release of information

was a lot more appropriate than it is.

Now.

I can appreciate that.

Now, talking about front runners
and for runners, you were a part

of a team that essentially were
the, um, where JTF two started.

If I'm not mistaken, you were, you
helped create what, uh, JTF two is now.

Yeah.

And, and I'll, I'd like to reframe that,
uh, I, I didn't help create anything other

than I was a part of something, so, right.

Um, Yes.

I, the term I believe is plan holder.

Okay.

And so that indicates someone who
was there right from the onset, right

from the beginning of the teams.

And, and I was very privileged
and, and it was an honor of

course, to be part of that process.

And when it all started off, when JTF
two kicked off, it, it wasn't really,

I didn't notice JTF two at the time.

I'm not even sure it
had a name at the time.

Mm.

When it all kicked off, we kind of didn't
know what we were getting ourselves into.

I do recall in, um, when I was in
the regular military, there was a

memorandum outside of my commanding
officer's, um, headquarter building.

And I looked at that memorandum,
uh, pinned on the wall.

And I generally read along the
lines of, we can't tell you.

It you're gonna be doing, we can't tell
you where you're gonna be doing it.

And we can't tell you how hard it is gonna
be, but if you're interested sign here

and I was like, I'm, I'm all about that.

And, you know, probably stupidly and,
and, and very shallowly considering

the, uh, what I was getting myself
into, but I was all about that.

Yeah.

So that, that just spoke
directly to my soul.

And so I was all in, and, and in
the early days we didn't know where

we were going or what we were gonna
be doing or how long precisely.

Mm.

And, and I wouldn't, now that I know,
uh, I wouldn't have changed a thing

of course, but at the time it was
quite a leap of faith, if you will.

Yeah.

Oh, I can appreciate.

Well, how old were you?

I was, when I got badged into the
team, I think I was about 29 years old.

Okay.

So, uh, you've been at that
point, you'd been with Canadian

armed forces for, for some time.

And

yeah, I was, I was relatively qualified,
uh, to put my name in the hat, to maybe

have a try at getting on the team.

And I think I had some things
working in my favor for sure.

Uh, I'd already faced a, a reasonable
amount of adversity through a number

of specialty qualification courses.

Actually this one being one of
them, the Pathfinder course is,

uh, no one is a tough course.

And so I was also sniper qualified
and, and being a army sniper.

There weren't too many of us at the time.

And so that was of great interest, I
suppose, to the formation of the team.

And you know, not to get too far
ahead of myself, you've kind of

gotta pass selection before you
start building a team as it were so.

Um, you know, I, I wanted to be
part of it, but I wasn't sure

what I was gonna be part of.

And as it turns out, it, it,
it was being part of an amazing

tier one, uh, team, for sure.

So, uh, going through your Pathfinder
training, what, what did that encompass?

Yeah, that's, I think it's loosely
referred to as one of the hardest

courses in NATO, certainly at the time.

Uh, I'm not sure how it stands now.

I'm sure it's still extremely difficult.

Well, I'm sure, certainly one of the
hardest, if not the hardest course

in Canada, mm-hmm at the time.

And so what it was, it was being run
at the Canadian airborne regiment, uh,

in UA and the course lasted 70 days.

And there were no days off every
day was a course day where you were,

um, facing the fury of some very
focused directing staff who were

there to ensure that you belong there.

We had a very extremely
high attrition rate.

I, I'm not sure if I can kick
out the percentage, but it

was extremely low pass rate.

It the course was fairly brutal just to
give some general statistics, I would

say on average, over those 70 days,
I was getting about three hours of

sleep per night or in a 24 hour cycle.

We'll call it cuz there was
no day and night per se.

Okay.

Maybe about three hours
in a 24 hour cycle.

Some, some cycles, you know, two
or three days you might get 10

minutes of sleep kind of thing.

Wow.

Uh, if you were getting longer
sleeps than that, it was usually on

a, like a CC one 30 Hercules as you
were flying from one spot to another

spot to jump out at that spot.

So you might get some rack on the plane.

Mm.

Um, but even then, uh, the directing
staff were there to ensure that

you were working through your
patrol planning and so on and so

forth while you're on the bird.

So not a lot of sleep and in
respect to calories or food, um,

generally speaking, we were working
on approximately one imp per day.

And so normally that, uh, a regular.

Infantry soldier, as an example, would
be getting at least three imps per day.

We were at one imp per day.

And, and that meant, so for lunch, I'd
be looking forward to my pack of sugar.

Yes, there, there wasn't, there wasn't
much, uh, in the way of calories.

So, you know, just using those two
simple statistics to give an indication

of how hard the course was, you
were always, uh, lacking sleep and

you were always lacking calories
and the workload was unbelievable.

The pace was, uh, so.

Hard.

Mm.

And the stressors, the command stressors,
you were always in a role, uh, whether it

was the patrol commander, the navigator,
the signaler to this, that, or whatever

you always had stressors placed on you.

And you were always under a watchful eye
and the standards were extremely high.

There was no room for error.

And if you made a minor error, that
was one strike and you got three.

And so you were, you, you
were always facing heat.

And so what does that
mean for the human body?

Well, when I started the course
and finished the course, I

lost nearly 25 pounds of muscle
over the course of 70 days.

Wow.

Because you had to eat your
body essentially, right?

Uh, we were, you know,
would not be uncommon to.

24 hour cycle moving through, uh, through
the Bush, uh, with always your, your

RAC was always over a hundred pounds.

And, um, on top of that, you had your
combat load that said, or so all in

all to make it long story short, it
was an extremely difficult course that,

um, if you passed it, it was notable.

And I think more for me anyway, what was
more important than, uh, doing the course

or passing the course was after the fact
year, two, seven years to this day, I can

still look at that course and think, man,
Th there's not too many things that I am

gonna face that were harder than that.

So it established a good baseline for
me as I went towards JTF two, where I

thought, man, this is really hard, but
I think maybe I had a harder moment

on the Pathfinder course or et cetera.

That

framework is fantastic.

Yeah.

So malnourished, uh,
lacking sleep 70 days.

Did you think

about giving up?

Sure.

Yeah.

Um, and you know, the not never,
ever thinking about giving up in

the sense of, I quit out outta here.

Right, right.

I thought about giving up in
the sense of, you know, we

were also extremely dehydrated.

We were limited to water.

And so listen, the, the program
in 1987 was fairly diabolical.

Right.

And I would suggest that there.

Is no way that program could
run today in a modern military.

Just, just not because some of the things
that were done, uh, in respect to the

limitations that were, um, put on us,
uh, in food, water, sleep and so on.

So forth.

I, I don't think it would fly today.

Right.

And so there was a time when
I was so, um, dehydrated.

I had no water left in my
one canteen for that day.

Hmm.

Uh, that I started formalizing or,
or imagining what would I give up?

What body part would I give up?

just for maybe five minutes of sleep
and, and maybe another sip of water.

And that body part was, you know, a
significant body part . So I never, I

was never interested in quitting, but
I did have, uh, several moments where I

just thought, well, this is outrageous.

Mm.

What was it that would
push you to drive through?

Because if the attrition rate rate
was relatively low, a lot of people

were dropping out or being kicked out.

Uh, there's something in you
that could see that finish

line somehow and see yourself.

Uh, completing it as not an
impossible Herley Herculean task.

What was it that drove you to continue?

Yeah, that's a great question.

And, and I think, I didn't know it
at the time, but I know it better

now, given that I've faced other
more, um, adverse, um, scenarios.

As I moved on through my military
career at, at the time in my Pathfinder,

of course, I'd faced adversity for
sure, in a number of other things.

But the Pathfinder course was really the
was a, a whole new level of adversity.

And so what I was doing was two things.

I was relying on my, my natural
stubbornness mm-hmm um,

I I'm just gonna do it.

Right.

That's what, that's what
runs a lot of my life.

I, I call it stubbornness.

Some people call it grit, some
people call it other things, but I

just think of it as being stubborn.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but the other part was.

I didn't really know what
the next day would bring.

And so I compartmentalized my, my 70
days alls I had in front of me was

what was in front of me that day or
that hour, or that next five minutes.

And I just simply had to.

Stand up and do that thing.

And then 10 minutes later, I'd be
doing something else and whatever that

something else was, I would do my best.

And so compartmentalizing my way through
the 70 days, you know, on day 33, you

don't know what's gonna happen on day 55.

You, for me, I just would
stubbornly keep doing my best.

And as it turns out, you know, I think
it's probably an analogy for life.

You can Pathfinder your way through
life by just facing some adversity and

doing your best in the moment and not
worrying too much about what tomorrow

brings folks on being your best right now.

And, and tomorrow will take
care of itself when it shows.

Yeah, that's great advice.

And being able to compartmentalize these
things, everything in its whole might be

overwhelming, but right now, right here,
I can take care of this next five minutes.

I can do five

minutes.

That's right.

And you know, if, if on day one I
could have understood the entire 70

days and, and the fullness of it, man.

I, I don't know what I would say on day
one as to whether I wanna proceed today.

Two mm-hmm . I, I, I wanna
believe that I would say bring it.

Mm.

Uh, I, I I've got this, bring it,
but it was a, it was a full 70 days.

And, and, uh, I think it's kind of helpful
to not fully understand what you're

gonna be putting your body and your mind
and your soul through, uh, sometimes.

Yeah.

Well, was Pathfinder training
a requisite to sniper training?

No.

No it wasn't.

Mm.

Army sniper.

Required a number of pre-certification,
but it didn't require Pathfinder.

So they were really two
different sort of paths.

I would suggest mm-hmm as an infantryman
or as a airborne soldier, uh, one

would be a Pathfinder, as an example,
would be more focused on deeper

reconnaissance or we'll call it behind
enemy lines for lack of a better term,

uh, first in, uh, sort of sorting out.

The drop zone or the landing zone, or
what have you, and setting up that, and

then setting up roots to the objective,
getting eyes on the objective, looking

for secondary and so on and so forth.

Mm-hmm, a lot of moving parts and
a lot of sort of personal movement.

And as a Pathfinder, you would be
an asset that is a force multiplier.

So you'd be operating independently.

Generally speaking, sometimes you'd
be on a two man team, but more

often than not, there was so many
things to do that you had to just

bust a move as fast as you could.

And as, as tactically, as you could
to get as much done, and then you're

onto the next thing mm-hmm and you're
reporting to a much higher level.

And so you're, as you're moving on the
ground, you, you are, you're making

a lot of affecting a lot of change.

Mm-hmm whereas a sniper.

again, you're an independent mover,
but your, your responsibilities are

more surveillance and, and you can
change the battlefield for sure.

Mm-hmm but, uh, in a completely different
way than a Pathfinder would, uh they're

they have some similarities, but they
are two different paths for sure.

So you've had those under your belt.

You're looking for the next challenge.

This thing who knows what it is.

Okay.

This mysterious memo comes up
and you're like, I'm all in.

What did it look like after that?

What, what was the process
of building with the team

that you ended up being with?

Mm, so first of all, selection, um,
was held out in the Ottawa region

and because the team was just,
it was the inception of the team.

There wasn't any information out
there at all about what selection was

you, you know, did, did you need to
be able to fly and hold your breath?

who knew?

I mean, no one knew.

Right.

And so you were really
entering into the void.

Uh, you stepped.

Into the unknown and you operated
in the unknown on a daily basis,

actually on a per minute basis.

Now I, I believe at this time,
it's reasonably well known that

selection has, is a reasonably
set process that has a number of

things that have to be accomplished.

And it's quite a test mm-hmm and, and
the, the men who pass or the men who

don't pass, it's never for, it's never for
reasons such as, um, oh, you just couldn't

do enough pushups or, oh, you just were.

You ran too slow.

Right?

It's far more than that.

And, and the question, uh, that
I'm sometime is asked is, well,

why did this guy not make it?

And, and why did you, bro, if I had that
answer, , it's, it's a process and it's

a scientific process and it uncovers
enough about a person that they, the

system as a whole feels comfortable
in bumping them onto the next step.

Okay.

There are several steps, of course.

So entering into selection.

I didn't know what I was facing because
no one knew what we were facing.

It's a bit different now.

Hmm.

So that process was fascinating to me.

It was amazing.

It was a beat down and, and it was,
um, it was illuminating, I would say.

Mm.

Illuminating is a good word.

Because as an individual, the
spotlight was on you for all of your

flaws and all of your strengths.

And it was illuminating to me as an
individual, not just for the directing

staff who were observing my mistakes.

Um, it was, it really kind
of shine a spotlight within

myself of, oh my goodness.

I can't believe I just did that.

Is that even me?

Why did I do that?

Or as the stressors built and as the
sleep deprivation built and so on and

so forth, and because you're exposed
to so many things, all of your fears,

all of your weaknesses as when you're
in those moments, um, if, if you are

operating at a high enough level,
you can get a pretty good sense of.

A version of who you are in a
way that you've never seen before

sleep and lack thereof can do
some very funny things to people.

What did you learn about
yourself through that process?

Um, Hmm, so many things.

Yeah.

I think that I, I, I would wish for
every soldier in the Canadian armed

forces to be exposed to a process like
that, a selection of some form, I think

it would make every soldier, a better
soldier, but more importantly would make

every soldier a better human because.

if, if you, as humans, we all have ego.

Sure.

And sometimes our ego is a bit inflated
or artificial or incorrectly calibrated

as to our ability to execute against that
ego that we think we are mm-hmm . And

so the selection process is, is strips
away all of the facade of what you think

you can do and helps you understand
a lot better, what you are capable

of as a person, as a human being, not
as a shooter, not as a mover, not as

a thinker, but the, what you do in
the moment when, uh, times are tough,

right?

When the chips are down,
what are you made of

that's right.

What, not only what are you made of, but,
um, The kind of higher level processing

that is required in tier one, whether
you are capable of, of stepping out

of the chaos that is occurring, not
only internally, but in the immediate

bubble, all around you stepping out of
that chaos and processing at a higher

level so that you are more strategic
rather than just simply tactical mm.

Or emotional or, and, and I can see
a selection process being put in

place to really help weed out those
who might be, uh, mentally not at the

same level as, as others might be to
be able to deal with those stresses.

I don't know if that was as
big of a, um, consideration.

I'm sure it was a consideration,
but I don't know if it was as big

of a consideration in the early
days of special force units.

Um, I would think that nowadays that
that's plays a, a huge role is making

sure that the person's mindset is such
that they're going to be able to be

useful in a long term sort of way.

Yeah.

I, I think, uh, you raise an excellent
point there and, and in the early

days or the inception of JTF two,
I'm sure there was a, a wizard behind

the curtain who knew what was going
on, but it certainly wasn't me.

Right.

And, and as a, uh, operator, uh,
as an assaulter and then a sniper

and then moving on to team leader
and so on and so forth within all

of the roles that I, uh, played.

I think there was so much going
on that you were busy enough

just doing what you had to do.

I, I never felt that I was so capable
of doing it all so well that I could

step out of that role and observe
things at such a strategic level

that I could start considering.

Who's the wizard.

And, and what does the wizard
know that I don't know.

How is all of this, all
of these moving parts?

How, how is it all working
as well as it works?

Or where are we going next
in the sense of as a unit?

So back then, I'm not sure if
that existed, perhaps it did.

I just didn't see it, but I think.

Um, on two points, I do honestly believe
that, um, the, the unit is an amazing

organization and that all of the early
road bumps have all been ironed out.

And I also think that comparing myself
as an operator or the operators that,

uh, started off in the unit, I would
argue that an operator today is possibly

twice as good as what I was at the time.

And, and I think that.

Quite a, quite a, a big thought, because
back then I thought we were pretty good.

yes, I really did.

I mean, we were, we were the cream of
the crop as it were within the army.

We were the first, uh, skimming of
the cream and, and they pushed us

as hard as they could and turned
us into what they turned us into.

And I thought we were real good at
what we did, but nowadays I think that

the processes that are in place not
rudimentary as we were back then a

very sophisticated and nuanced process
that is wrapped around those operators.

I think that they are far better
trained, far better educated.

I think that they're just
better, uh, qualified humans.

Uh, as they step onto that
start line, nevermind.

Once they cross the finish line

that's what was it?

Newton?

Who said the reason I can see,
where I can see now is cause I

stand on the shoulder of giants.

That's right.

So I would really hope that as time
goes on, that people are learning

from those mistakes and building
back better, but you're also gonna

find a different type of person.

I would think that that comes in maybe.

Um, I look at, uh, so my father
was on the first E R T for

Vancouver and helped set them up.

And I, and I look at, um, the, uh,
the training programs that they put

into place that we'd never fly now
and the things that they would do,

which would be maybe viewed as safety,
third, as opposed to safety first.

Right, right.

And, um, mind.

And when I can hear some of the
old timers complaining, they say,

well, people need a special course
and certification just to breach a

door, whereas we just do it right.

Well, may, maybe there's a
reason why maybe I think so.

Right.

um, the, uh, the type of, um, person that
would get into it then might be a little

bit different than the type of person
who would get into that sort of a thing.

Now, operationally, I'd
have to agree with you.

I mean, just constantly
getting better and better.

I'm wondering as we get new technology
and resources, uh, does that change

a, uh, a unit much, or would be just a
fundamental grit, uh, mental attitude,

uh, ingenuity, um, that the forefathers
had in putting things forward, sort of

Trump, any sort of, um, uh, technologies
or new kit that could come into place?

That's a great question.

And I've given a little
bit of thought and, and.

Funnily enough, it's a relatively
recent consideration for me.

I would say over the last year, I've
given it a much deeper consideration.

First of all, I would like to
establish that whether it'ss, whether

I'm carrying a space, laser or a
spear at a baseline level, if you're

an elite, uh, warrior we'll say,
or elite operator, you've you've,

your baseline has to be good to go.

You you've gotta be pretty squared
away, or you've gotta have a bunch

of, for lack of a better term, I'll
call 'em special qualities in order

to, to operate at an elite level.

Now, whether it's a spear or a space
laser, um, I think those are, uh, layers

that are added onto that baseline.

And so I'm going to use a personal.

example or I'll use myself as a case
study for lack of a better term.

When we were coming up on the
teams, the weapons that we had, we

didn't have lasers mounted to them.

Uh, it was, it was a big deal to get
a, uh, sure fire or get a, a flashlight

on, on your, uh, on your weapon.

And so we, I, I was taught to shoot
and, and I was already a real good shot,

I think, before I went to the teams.

But certainly after I went through
the process, I was, as we all

were, I'm not singling myself out.

We are all extremely, extremely
qualified to do the job.

Mm-hmm . And so we were all good shots,
but we're all good shots off iron sites.

And so the, um, The four point
MVGs or night vision goggles

with lasers and this and that.

I mean, those are excellent
tools, but strip those tools away.

And at a baseline level, an elite
operator is still an elite operator

and they can do the job with a
sling shot or with a space laser.

Mm.

Now comparing my era to the modern
era of tier one, I would say that

they have a number of tools, tools
that I wouldn't even be aware of.

I would, uh, suggest, but all
of those tools are simply there

to facilitate the task at hand.

They are there to move the needle in
a, in a way that we couldn't have done

in the nineties, but at the end of
the day, the job would still get done.

It would just be done, um,
in its own unique way, but

it's always gonna get done.

Interesting.

What was the rest of
the makeup of your team?

Like, because I would have to say as I
go through my head here, every single

person that I know who I'm either spoken
with or friends with, or interacted with,

who is, uh, would be considered a high
level in, in their position, whether

that be, um, um, police or military,
um, tend to be kind compassionate,

um, softer spoken, not the typical
who raw type of a, um, individual

gungho, uh, sort of attitude that.

Hollywood would have you believe these
people are, is, are you, am I just

attracted to those kind of people who seem
to have their ego so squarely in checked?

Or is it the fact that these people
who are able to, um, comport themselves

in such a way, tend to make for
better, uh, high level operatives?

Mm, I think, I think as you move down
the path towards special operations,

or as you, uh, pursue that more elite
level of operation, the reality is you

face a lot of beat downs, the amount
of adversity that you are subjected

to, or you must subject yourself to,
in order to move to that next level is.

abnormal.

Mm.

And so in all of that adversity,
if you show up with a big

ego, it's gonna get crushed.

Mm.

I mean, you, there is
just no way around it.

You cannot retain a massive ego and
just Bumble you way forward to tier one.

Mm.

You, you get crushed out of you because
you have to face all of your flaws.

You have to face all of your mistakes.

Uh, there's a, a good
friend of mine, Tim Turner.

What's up Tim and, um, he's
a, he's a army sniper as well.

And, um, we've had a couple of laughs.

In fact, while we're out at operation,
Peus jump on Vancouver island this summer,

Tim and I were talking and, and we're
both in full agreement that the army

sniper course, which I did before JTF
two was even a twink in anyone's eye.

That course is so difficult on many
levels, but one of the things that stands

out in the sense of difficulty is the
amount of failure that you have to face.

Mm I'd never faced that
amount of failure before.

It was so regular to fail in
various aspects of that course

that it, it, it was the course that
started normalizing failure for me.

Interesting.

And up to that point, I hadn't really
faced that level of failure before I

things I don't wanna say things came
naturally to me because that would be

a, a misstatement mm-hmm , but I, I
always did really, really, really well

in everything that I did up until the
sniper course where I was failing.

And it was shaking me a little bit mm-hmm
, but through that process of so much

failure, it, then normalizes failure and.

I became comfortable enough with
failure that I started after the sniper

course to begin pursuing failure.

And now my, my, my regular pattern and has
been for decades now is to pursue failure.

Interesting.

So I, I guess from a training
perspective, you gotta be really careful.

Like you can train people up to just to
be rabbit dogs who will bite anything

that moves to be so beaten that they're
timid and cowering in the corners.

If failure is such a normalized thing,
um, there's gotta be a, a very tricky

psychological balance here between
making a winner out of somebody who's

constantly being beaten down and failing.

Um, and now that you actively
seek out failure, I should only

imagine it so that you can find
your weak points and work at that.

Yeah,

that's it precisely.

And the.

As I'm speaking to you about
it right now in real time.

I'm, I'm, you know, considering the
subject in real time, and I'm trying

to give you my real time answer.

And, and you're making me think
about things in, in unique ways.

So you'll have to bear with me
if it's not a very clean message.

but I would say this, that it, we weren't
taught how to move through that process.

So on, on the sniper course,
as an example, all of

those failures it's on you.

Mm.

And you had to figure out a
way, and there was no manual.

There was no self-help book.

There was no mentor to kind of
pat you on the shoulder and give

you a hug and say, I know you're
struggling, but don't worry about it.

Because a few years from now
it's gonna be really beneficial.

Mm.

And so you just had to back then, and I'm
not, I, I don't know what it is like now,

but back then, you had to figure it out.

And you had to carve a way forward that
you could continue to be successful

for lack of a better term in on the
path mm-hmm . And so I'm not sure

if that was a good way to learn, uh,
or, or there's better ways to learn,

but it was the way at the time.

I think it takes a special person
to be able to learn from that.

Cuz I think there's a lot of people
out there that'll get beaten down

and never get back up mm-hmm and
they'll carry that with them.

It said Latin saying Tre
right light from darkness.

Um, the person who can see that light
from the darkness, like a friend

of mine, he says, you know, has
same fellow who says he grades his

mental health based on how he climbs.

If he's, uh, unable to do harder pitches,
he knows he's gotta step back a little

bit and uh, do a few easier pitches.

Because his head's not firing in
the way that he kind of wants it to.

He says, um, when it's stormy out and
it's just miserable and he's out in

the Alpine and Alpine touring and his
skis, uh, he knows that he'll bunker

down to build a little snow shelter.

And the next day is probably gonna be some
of the best skiing that he's ever seen.

It's gonna be a Bluebird day.

Right.

But having the ability to see that,
or at least somehow visualize that

success in your mind or what it's
gonna be like is gonna be better.

I think a lot of people have difficulty
with, um, what advice would you give

someone else, or what advice would you
give your younger self with your accrued

knowledge over the years in being able to
deal with adversity or deal with failure?

Mm that's a great question.

Certainly one thing.

And I'm gonna use this sniper course
as an example, to make my point.

one thing is you have to figure out how
to be the best version of yourself in

the moment, all the time, irrespective
of the challenge in front of you.

So whether you're making your coffee in
the morning or whether you're facing the

hardest hardship you've ever faced, figure
out how to do your best in real time.

And so even when things are going
completely sideways, as long as I'm doing

my best, even in the full sideways moment,
I know that 10 years from now, I won't

have any regret as to what I was doing,
as things are going sideways, where I

have my most regrets is when I'm being
a bit lazy when I'm not doing my best.

So if it's going sideways and I'm kind of
half assing it a little bit, I know that

10 years from now, I'm gonna look back
and I'm gonna think, man, that was lazy.

Or man, I could have done better.

Or man, I should have woulda, coulda.

I never think that.

If I'm doing my best in the moment,
because if I'm doing my best,

I'm, I'm literally doing my best.

And, and it's based on all of the
extenuating circumstances around me.

It's based on all of the
variables that I'm taking in.

And it's based on all of my
experiential solutions that I'm

putting into play in that moment.

As long as I'm doing my
best, I'm good to go.

It doesn't mean that it'll
be a successful outcome.

It just means.

I won't have any regrets in the future.

How do you stop yourself?

When you start going down a path,
maybe invasive thoughts are coming in.

You're feeling like you're tired,
you're hungry, you're angry.

Something's going on.

I'm I'm sure.

You know, even just going in traffic,
some people are subjected to road rage

or, or different life difficulties.

When do you ever find yourself in a
situation where you have to just stop

yourself and say, hold on a second.

Am I doing my best?

Am I trying my best?

Am I making the best decisions?

Am I thinking about this in a way where
I'll be proud later on to look back?

Do you ever find yourself in a
situation where that becomes clouded or

is it always?

I do.

Okay.

And, and perhaps on a regular basis.

Mm, certainly more
frequently than I would like.

Mm.

And then, uh, but I think
that's part of being human.

I I'm not a robot I've been accused of
being a cyborg from time to time , but

I am not se and, and, and I think
that's part of the human condition.

Um, we are, we all have flaws.

We all make mistakes and
we don't always do things.

Right.

And, and I would argue that I, I
do a, a poorer job of it than other

people that I know, but as long as
I hang onto the fact that if I'm

doing my best, then that's my best.

And it using your example of
traffic, like sometimes in traffic,

I'm, I'm done with traffic.

Mm-hmm, , I'm over it.

And I'm pretty frustrated with the people
who don't know how to drive or the people

who are cutting in on a line or the people
who are doing this, that, and the other

thing, the people, and if I've gotta do
something as simple as enter into a bit

of box breathing, Now it's in my control.

I've got things that I can do
to reel back the frustration of

them not being able to drive.

And so if, if I kind of let it UN
unspool in front of me and not take any

measures to control the things that I can
control such as my box breathing or my

own emotional, uh, moment that's on me.

And so it, it really comes down
to, am I doing my best or not?

And as long as I'm doing my
best, I can still be frustrated.

, but I should be more frustrated
with myself if I'm not doing

anything to offset that frustration.

And if I, if I'm frustrated and I'm doing
my best and I'm doing everything that I

can to be my best now, there may still be
some frustrations involved, but if I can't

change those, then I just move through it.

Mm.

So I know what box breathing is,
but some of the listeners might not.

Mm.

Do you wanna explain

it?

Sure thing.

So I, if you think of your breath
as a box, so breathe in, uh,

breathe in for four seconds.

Hold it for four seconds.

Breathe out for four seconds.

Hold it for four seconds.

Breathe.

Hold breathe out.

Hold.

Now I say four seconds.

It could be five seconds.

It could be two seconds.

It could be eight seconds, whatever
you're most comfortable with in

the moment based on either your,
uh, experience of practicing that

or how you feel in that moment.

And if you can't box breathe, then
you can switch to a, a, a more I'd.

I call it almost like a two dimensional
breathing where you breathe in,

uh, for four seconds, and then
you let it out for four seconds.

I think it's far less about the,
uh, protocol or the specifics

of a timing of breathing.

And it's more about switching
into a more present sense.

So you are actively focusing on
controlling yourself in the moment

through the simple observation
of I'm switching to breathing.

Now mm-hmm , it's just.

Flicking a switch on a protocol of
you owning your real time moment.

Are there other things
that you do to be present?

I know some people they'll say I'll
just concentrate on the color, right.

And I'll look at that color and I'll
notice how it fits in or doesn't fit in.

Or it just, uh, a noise.

That's something I would do quite a bit.

Um, and I do with my children.

They're angry, they're upset.

There's something going on.

Typical emotions that people have as
they're growing up and I'm talking to them

and I say, did you hear the plane outside?

Well, no, listen, can you hear the cars?

Well, I do now help with the fridge.

Can you hear the fridge running?

Right.

And that process of just
stopping and listening.

Can really, and I'll do it myself.

I'll, I'll use listening as one of the
things to be able to help, uh, be present.

Are there other things that you do

yeah, though, and that's good advice to
your children and to yourself and, and

it's, I think it's good advice for anyone.

What I do do when I'm feeling
the moment when, when.

Things are getting a bit, uh, sideways or
a bit chaotic or a bit much we'll call it.

Mm-hmm . I try to expand my 360 degree
sphere, uh, to a point which it'll

sounded a little kooky, but I'll try to
expand my awareness of not just what's

all around me, but in the room over
there, I'll try to feel the room that I

can't see into, but I will try to feel
a much larger footprint around me than

a footprint I can hear or see or touch.

And so if, if I'm being honest and, and
I, and if I'm really, really feeling a

moment, I'll try to sense my backyard.

Mm-hmm or the tree line over
there, which arguably is impossible.

Or is it, I suppose it all
depends on how much you've

done it in your life and right.

And how much you've really expanded your.

Awareness of what you're capable of or,
or literally expanded your footprint.

See the, I like, I like that explanation.

I'll do something similar.

Let's say I'm really angry.

Um, and you're feeling, and you're
in the moment, I'll try and say,

how does that manifests itself
physically within me, right?

It was my stomach.

Feel like it's tied up.

Does my throat feel tied up?

Am my, are my muscles clenched?

Right?

Or what, what am I feeling you.

Find a center line to what I'm feeling
and I'll try and concentrate on that.

And then I'll look at the edges, meaning
I'll start going out, like are the sides

of my body feeling that outside my body?

Like, how big is it around me?

Is this, is this feeling?

And then I won't try and change it.

I'll just try to, non-judgmentally
explore it and take a look at maybe the

edges, the edges, where I don't feel
that it sounds perhaps like a similar

sort of thing, trying to feel in the
other rooms where, where you're at.

And I find if I try to change
it, I'm not helping myself.

Right.

If I explore it, nonjudgmentally
like interesting.

Right?

Like, and maybe in a cyborg robotic way.

Right.

Uh, but you try and strip that
emotion out of it and explore the,

uh, the perimeter of the edges.

The natural Bri byproduct of that is
you become a little bit more centered.

I think so.

And, you know, I don't want to categorize
that as something that is, is a tool

that is only used when you're feeling
the moment mm-hmm . Um, I think it's

something that you can do constantly.

And let me give you a good example,
perhaps when I was coaching high

performance, um, ultra endurance
athletes, 24 hour solo mountain bike race.

24 hours of, of mountain bike racing
and you know, no sleep, no stop.

It's it's constant.

Mm-hmm you're racing for 24 hours.

Uh, you, you take food as
you're racing, um, et cetera.

So one of the things that I would have
my athletes do, because it's something

that I would do is we had, I would ask
them to run an internal diagnostic and

an external diagnostic as they were
on the bike racing, 18 hours into it.

What's your internal diagnostic.

And that means you've gotta run a, a
routine within yourself so that you can,

um, check in with your emotional state.

Uh, why are you racing in that moment?

Do you understand your, why still clearly,
or have you deviated from your, why

are you now in a race within a race?

So the race within a race, being that guy.

Up on the horizon who kind of
flipped you off as he went by.

Are you now racing him?

he he's.

He's so unimportant in respect to a
24 hour racing event that you cannot

afford to get emotionally distracted by
someone who flipped you, the bird as they

sped by, by the way, they're on a team.

So they're only doing one lap, so
they're fresh as a Daisy Uhhuh, but

now you're wanting to chase that guy
down cause he gave you some attitude.

Mm.

So internally you've always gotta be
running that diagnostic and externally

you've also gotta run that routine.

So the, how are my hands and
my gripping, my bar too tight.

I'm at, what's my water status.

What's my X, Y, and Z.

So as you're moving your energy
system around internally and

externally, it has to be a practice.

It has to be a process that after
a period of time becomes normal or

natural or a sub-routine that you
don't have to keep triggering every

one minute or every five minutes,
you have to be present with yourself.

Not just as you sit at a table as
we are right now, but as you're

executing hard tasks, that should
be so distracting that you can't.

Do an internal and external
diagnostic, but at what point do you

start becoming better at running an
internal and external diagnostic in

moments where things are tough, right?

You gotta start somewhere.

Right?

So start today, start yesterday,
working on an internal and an external

diagnostic to better understand who
you are in the moment right now.

And in those moments, when things
get tougher, of course, yeah.

Now, or never was a time and it
never, never . And it is never

too late to stop and regroup.

And that was a piece of advice that
someone gave me a long time ago.

And I thought that was a good one.

Doesn't matter how far down you are on a
path it's not too late to stop, regroup

and make a different path for yourself.

Yeah.

And you know, I think, uh, that's an
interesting, uh, observation because.

It, you know, that's one way of
framing it, but how about this way?

Um, it's not that you're at a, a
branching point junction where, oh, I've

gotta go left or I've gotta go, right.

The path is the path.

Mm.

And the path is a straight line
in, in, in an academic sense.

You're, you're on a straight line.

It's just that life tends to weave
and wind and up and down and,

and sometimes a little backwards,
but the path is, is linear.

It's you progressing, but as we see
it, we're at all of these branching

points and, oh, I've gotta make
this hard decision and oh no.

What do I do now?

But really you're always moving forward.

As long as you're your, your, your
mindset is I'm pursuing forward momentum.

Always.

We were talking a little bit
about, um, Sort of road rage.

And I remember reading a study once about,
uh, the correlation between the size of

the place you live in your city, your
town and the, uh, prevalence of road rage.

And they said, once, if you live in a
small town, somebody cuts you off, you

know, like, oh, that's Edith, she's
probably drunk again or whatever.

Right.

That's, somebody's out there.

That's right.

That's right.

You can, you can humanize
that other person.

And the response is different.

You get past that into
a much larger place.

And all of a sudden, it's just a
bunch of faceless people and you're

not looking at the individual.

You're looking at the
action of what happened.

And quite often people are looking at it
like the person's doing it against them.

So I'm looking at that analogy and I'm
thinking of somebody who's coming from

a tier one background outside of that.

Um, You when you're in there and one
of your mates does something silly and

you're like, oh, that's, that's just them.

Right.

And you can accept them for what they are.

You come out of the army, you come
out of your group that you're in and

you're out into the big wide world.

Do you find it difficult to, or
did you find it difficult to, um,

uh, make those human connections?

Yeah,

101%.

All

right.

like, I figured you would, but
I figured it framed it that way.

Just.

I found it, I don't wanna say unimaginably
difficult, but I found it extremely

difficult when I left, uh, JTF two,
um, you know, I was wearing my black,

uh, outfit and high speed, low drag.

Uh, I was a worn officer.

Uh, you know, it was, it was
kind of a big deal, I suppose,

in the grand scheme of things.

But then that evening I was standing
at the Ontario police college as

a civilian signing in as a use of
force instructor to do that thing.

And, and man, nobody knew what I,
what I'd done or what I'd been up

to, or, or knew anything about me.

And, and so I kind of felt like
I went from a million miles an

hour to about three miles an hour.

Mm.

And, and then a year later, Uh, after
I left the Ontario police college,

and now I was fully a we'll call it
a veteran or a civilian, or basically

a nameless faceless person, myself
wandering down the, the sidewalk, man.

Nobody knew, uh, anything
about me or what I was about.

And, and that was kind
of a strange time for me.

It was a bit of a disconnect because, um,
I felt like I had, uh, a lot of skills.

I felt like I had a lot of this,
that, or the other thing, but, uh,

I couldn't talk to anybody about it.

Mm-hmm of course it's not like
I could lean over and say, uh,

so this is what I used to do.

Do you get any pro tips?

Uh, so, so it was an unusual
time for me, for sure.

Um, and, and I think.

And I, I, I might not have done an amazing
job of working through that process.

I just did my best without any guidance
or without any self-help books or

without a, what do you do when you
get out of tier one from a secret

organization that, uh, formally doesn't
exist kind of thing, you know, there,

right there, there was just no pro tip.

So I just kind of did my best as I
focused on forward momentum, but,

um, over the years and more correctly
over the decades, and it's only been

fairly recently that I've come to the
real realization of the point that

I'm gonna make now and it, and it goes
back to what I just wrote down there.

And that's the sniper course.

So you'd asked me, uh, a little earlier
about kind of what did I do or how,

how would you work through that?

Or we're talking about
failure and et said, or so.

There's a number of things that I would
do when times got tough or when I had to

move through that failure rate or how to
continue being we'll call it successful.

Um, but one of the things that I
didn't mention that is so important,

and perhaps I didn't understand it
at the time as well as I do now.

And that is man, the guys around me.

So the other snipers on the sniper
course who were also facing all of those

failures, who were also proceeding ahead
and were there on my left and right.

And, and there were all
facing the same struggles.

We were all moving together as a team.

And even as guys failed on the course,
because they're extremely, extremely

tough shooting standards, even as
guys dropped out, um, You, we were

all learning together and evolving
as a, as a organism towards success.

And so when I left the teams or when
I left the military, uh, I didn't have

that same organism mentality where
like-minded people were focused on

excellence and were hard charging ahead
with a, a mission purpose that wasn't

as common in the civilian workplace,
as I did a handful of careers, but now.

Today as I sit here and over the last
little while, I've been able to reflect

back on all of that and realize that even
today, as I'm answering this question,

um, I'm, I'm partly reflecting on the good
men and women before me, that I worked

with who, uh, in this conversation I'm
representing that they found ways to be

excellent and they are still excellent
human beings doing excellent things.

And, um, it was because of the men to my
left and right that I tried to do my best.

I'd have done my best anyway.

Right.

But them being next to me was a
higher responsibility for me to

really pull up my socks and, and
pull that load, not just for.

But for the bigger team around me, that
even the team that I didn't see at the

time, I just wanted to bear the extra
weight on behalf of those around me.

And it draws the best out of you.

Isn't that

interesting how human nature is such that
the, um, not the fear, but the, uh, the

disin inclination to let other people
down, uh, exceeds our own mm-hmm we

might be prepared to let ourself down,
like, am I gonna go to the gym today?

Or am I gonna work out today?

Nah, but you gotta meet your buddy.

Well, I don't wanna let them down.

They're waiting for me to come.

Okay.

I guess I'm gonna get out
of bed and go to the gym.

We're gonna go, whatever it might be.

That's difficult.

Isn't that interesting?

It is.

But I, I don't think it's a
universal, um, phenomenon.

I don't think it's every human.

Okay.

Feels that way.

I think that every
human can feel that way.

It, I believe it comes down to whether
they've been exposed to what it means

to be in a high performance team.

Mm.

Now let's pretend for a moment as
a thought experiment that, uh, you

know, high school student comes
up through high school and they

don't play any team sports at all.

And, uh, when they leave high
school, they don't get any hobbies.

They don't join any other teams.

They're not in a bowling
league or whatever.

Uh, they just simply don't
operate in that space.

And so now who, who.

what is their higher calling?

They've only got themselves.

So, so how do they interact, uh, to better
understand that you should perform at

a higher level for those around you to
support the, the larger team around you?

Well, if you weren't raised in it,
then how do you understand that?

I, I don't think you can.

Mm, you, you certainly can't
learn it through watching Netflix.

And so, uh, for me, I was lucky coming up
through the system through the, through my

career path that not only, uh, was I, uh,
taught it, uh, directly through osmosis.

You understood precisely
why you were there.

It wasn't about you.

It was about the team.

Mm.

And so, and I'm not just talking
about JTF two, the team I'm talking

about every subunit that I was
involved in, every small team that I.

Uh, I, I was a part of you were
there for the team, not for yourself.

And so I felt it always, all of us raised
all of our boats simply by the fact that

we were looking at all the boats around
us, trying to stay up with the other

boats and do our part to ensure that
those boats, and it was a constantly

raising situation as a small team.

But you, you, you can't do your best
if you've only ever been an individual.

I agree.

I agree.

There's only, there's a limit
to where you can go when you're

only looking out after yourself.

And I, I think I've talked
about this before with others.

It's um, you know, everyone says,
well, you gotta work on you first.

Right.

I'm getting my me time in, right.

Or whatever it might be, I think to a
degree, maybe that's good, but you don't.

I think when you are of service
to others, or you put yourself

in a position where you do have a
higher calling or something else.

You are not only, uh,
representing yourself better,

but you're helping others.

Um, people who are having difficulty
with, uh, mental health, let's say it.

They're like, well, I gotta gotten
some me time and I gotta work on me.

Well, I find quite often that those
individuals will get so wrapped

up into themselves that they
can't see anything else outside.

And the second they start working
outside of themselves is when

they start coming together.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, I'll
use as I like to say, I'll use

myself as a good bad example.

um, I can use myself as an example in,
in this instance and suggest that, um,

you know, there was a time in my life
and, and not too long ago where I was

a little more focused on me rather
than focused on the world around me.

And, and that was because
I was struggling with PTSD.

Um, and, and I didn't know, I had PTSD.

In fact, when I left the
team's PTSD, wasn't a award.

And so when I transitioned out of the,
uh, JTF two, uh, my paperwork existed, uh,

The back of a match book kind of thing.

I didn't do anything.

I didn't see anything.

Never saw counselor never saw
anything, never did anything.

Mm.

And so basically, as I sit in
this seat right now, I I've

kind of bumbed my way forward.

Uh, if you will.

So PTSD was an unknown thing to me,
but when I got formally diagnosed with

it, not too long ago, the great thing
about that for me anyway, was say what?

It's got a word and it's called PTSD.

Awesome.

Now I can sink my teeth into that.

Now I know what I can execute against.

And as is my way, uh, I started
voraciously researching a path

forward so that I could do my best.

And, uh, speaking with people
as I tried to do, who were wiser

than me, which isn't hard to find.

Um, and so I, I really decided to.

Um, learn more about mental health
and through that process of learning

more about mental health, I bumped
into characters like OI and that that

exploring a larger world around me helped
me understand, uh, a number of things.

The first one would be.

I'm not unique, nor are you, nor is anyone
that we know mm-hmm , there is so much

commonality from person to person in
respect to, uh, mental health struggles.

Mm-hmm mental health challenges.

And, uh, it doesn't matter
what uniform you wear or not.

Mm-hmm , it doesn't matter whether you,
uh, never leave your basement or not.

Mm.

None of those things matter.

The reality is the commonality within
the human condition is mind blowing

mm-hmm . And so what to do about that?

Well, as you've already stated, The
tendency is when you're focused,

just purely on yourself, you can
kind of get lost in the white noise.

The minutiae of, I don't
wanna say woe is me.

Mm-hmm , but you can really
focus on the negative aspects.

I agree of, of life and, and sure.

You know, I'm, uh, there's probably a
pile of people out there that can focus

just on themselves and keep it all
positive and, and, and rainbows and, and

unicorns and, and so on and so forth.

But I haven't met a whole lot of those
mm-hmm I would suggest that a better

way to do things is to try to be of
service to something larger than yourself.

And.

Trying to help others is how I
started my career being of service

to others through the military.

And, uh, that kind of
became part of my DNA.

And, and through the other careers that
I've done, they've all been in step with

that trying to be of service to others.

And, and it's what I'm doing today.

I'm just trying to be
of service to others.

And well, what does that mean?

It, it means, um, seeing a
world larger than just myself.

Mm.

And so one of the things that, uh, I've
found, not just for me, but for a lot

of people that I talk to, they make
massive improvements in their life.

Once they realize that they are surrounded
by other people that they can interact

with and become more awesome for it.

You said that you didn't
realize that you had PTSD.

I think that's interesting.

Mm-hmm I think that's interesting
because I don't think you're

alone in that sort of an area.

I think there's a lot of people out
there that might have suffer from, uh,

one level of mental health or another
on we're all gonna be at different

points on the, on the scale here.

Uh, but for people to understand what it
looked like in somebody else might help

them say, hold on a second, I'm seeing the
same things or I'm having the same issues.

Uh, I think the more that people are able
to normalize and talk about these things,

the more benefit it is for everybody.

And when you talk about the human commit
edition and the commonality in between

you're right, I've talked to people,
who've been diagnosed with PTSD, who

don't come from a background of, of,
uh, serving in police or military or

fire, what have you, but based on their
life experiences and their upbringing

and their own human condition, they've,
they've reached this diagnosis.

what did it look like in you?

What, how did you come to realize
that you were, uh, dealing with PTSD?

Mm that's a great question.

And, you know, I think first of all, I
should establish that my path would be

unique from everyone else's path mm-hmm
, and we're also unique in our path, but to

bring it into more of a common terminology
or common framework, I, I suspect that we

all, as humans struggle from time to time.

And so it would be a case of, for how long
and how deep, uh, as a person struggling.

And so for myself, I didn't,
again, I didn't know the term PTSD.

Mm.

And it's, it's kind of a funny, not
funny, but kind of funny story um,

so my sister-in-law Irene, uh, came to
Rosalyn here and was staying with us and.

I came downstairs one morning after,
you know, getting up at whatever time.

And as I came down the stairs, she
said, good morning, how are you?

I said, good.

How are you?

And she said, how'd you sleep?

I said, ah, you know,
so, so what do you mean?

And we kind of entered into
that conversation of, so

why didn't you sleep well?

And, and I hit her with the classic,
uh, just a bit of a nightmare.

Oh yeah.

Uh, what kind of a nightmare?

Ah, no big deal.

Um, well, you know, how often do
you have nightmares every night?

Mm uh, well, how long for the
last couple of decades, right?

Every night you've had nightmares
and it chirp chirp, chirp.

And so over the course of a five
minute long conversation and

my sister-in-law basically, I'm
sure she was set up by my wife

here.

It comes out , which is

a good thing.

Sure.

Totally is.

It's a good thing.

And, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Um, but.

Through that conversation.

I thought to myself, yeah, I suppose I've
just been getting on with getting on and

I've found a way to, uh, work with it or,
or, um, still be a functioning member of

society, still doing good things, still
executing to the best of my ability and

et cetera, I've done pretty well, but I
gotta step outta myself for a second and

realize if I can strip out some of these
limitations such as not having nightmares

every freaking night and not having my
deep and REM sleep cycles constantly

compromised and et cetera, cetera.

Um, if I can work on that,
then where would that take me?

And what I had effectively done is.

I'd normalized my, my nightmares,
uh, to such a degree that

they'd just become a part of me.

Right.

And, and, and it's not that
I'd lost perspective on how

I could do things better.

Perhaps.

I just, I, I didn't, maybe I didn't
wanna face the fact that I was

struggling to some degree because I,
I was, I'm used to winning, right.

Of course not losing.

Right.

and I chase failure, but
I don't want to fail.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

Right.

So the dichotomy of trying to live my
best life and, and while maybe not wanting

to face some of the things that would
be down and dirty and gritty, which.

Which is, uh, almost hypocritical since
I've based a large chunk of my life

on pursuing adversity or grittiness,
but I maybe I just didn't want to

deal with, uh, for it's a terrible
term, but I'm gonna spit it out

there because it'll make the point.

I didn't wanna deal with my own
weaknesses, but it wasn't weaknesses.

It was just the life that I was
living in the moment because I hadn't

processed some of the things that
I needed to process in order to.

More awesome.

Mm-hmm and you know, what
more awesome means getting

freaking good sleep every night.

Totally.

Which I do now.

And so when, when sh it's not that
she challenged me, but when she

brought up this subject of Sean,
you know, that that's not normal.

Mm.

Um, while I mentioned it to my
family doctor, who I would see like

once a year, and she said, what?

And so we went into a conversation
that turned into then about.

Hours worth of conversations back and
forth over a number of sessions where

my awesome family doctor, uh, said, Hey,
you know, we should take a look at this.

We should maybe get it formally diagnosed.

And, and then I was into, um, uh, B, C
O SSI, if you know anything about them.

Um, and, uh, spoke with a, um,
psychiatrist mm-hmm , uh, over the phone,

uh, on a, because this was during the
pandemic at the start of the pandemic.

And so during that, uh, uh, virtual
conversation with her, uh, over

a number of sessions, she said,
Hey, look, uh, straight up PTSD.

And I was like, whoa.

So that's what it is.

Cool.

Interesting.

And then my life got better really

in which

way?

Well, because as soon as I had a
label for lack of a better term,

then I could learn more about it.

Once I started learning, I started
figuring out ways to do it better.

And speaking with my family doctor and,
and I'm not a guy who's ever done meds.

Uh, I don't, I'm not into
opioids or anything like that.

Right.

In fact, if I get banged up, I don't
even like taking a Motrin or an aspirin.

I just like to, I like to do it naturally.

I don't, I don't, I've
never done steroids.

I like to do.

I like to own my own path.

I agree.

And so, um, she recommended,
uh, a medication to me.

I was like, forget it, Andrea.

I'm not a medication guy.

Right.

I'll never do that stuff.

And over the course of, uh, um, a
couple of, uh, back and forth, she.

It's called prin.

It is as common as aspirin.

It's simply for high blood pressure,
but one of her, uh, one of her friends,

an associate who'd done a, uh, study
on combat veterans in combat nightmares

had suggested that there could be some
positive outcome from, uh, this drug

called pren and how it might strip
out some of the nightmare aspect.

And I was like, okay.

Uh, and I bit down on my mouthpiece
and I said, I'll give it a try.

Okay.

And that's the first
me that I'd ever take.

And, and that's the only me that I take.

Yeah.

Um, from, um, big pharmaceutical.

And here's the thing, man.

I, it, it's Sean.

Hey, young Sean.

You're such a jackass.

um, here's the thing that the first
night, bam gone really that quick.

I like that.

And, and, and I've never.

Really had a nightmare since,
uh, maybe one or two, that's it

over the course of some time now.

And listen, if I had a, a time
machine that I could punch back two

decades and start taking PreOn guess
what I'd be taking really PreOn.

And so, you know, what does that speak to?

It speaks to my, um, not just
stubbornness, but my stupidity of, of not

accepting, uh, a little bit of medical
intervention when, uh, it could have made

a humongous change in my quality of life.

I'd be a better person right
now, uh, for it, if I could

have taken prin two decades ago.

Wow.

Um, and, but at the time the person
that I was before I took prin.

Well, that was still me still making
the best decisions that I could, right.

Based on trying to be the best person
I could be chasing awesomeness.

Mm.

Um, I made those decisions
with good faith with myself.

It wasn't cuz I was trying to, um, uh,
I, I, wasn't trying to be my worst self.

No, totally not.

But at the time not taking anything made
sense to me and at the time not talking

about what I was struggling with, made
sense to me and at the time having

nightmares every night made sense to me.

And so I guess one of the points
I would be making is I I'm, I

was I'm I'm a confident guy.

I'm used to be, I'm used
to running my own program.

I'm I'm used to being independent.

Uh, I'm used to some level of
success in anything that I do.

I like to run my own program.

And if I could have just listened over the
years to some good advice, predominantly

from my wife, do who, who by the way is
freaking amazing and, and, and saved me

probably a number of times from my myself.

Uh, not that I have any suicidal
ideation or anything like that, but

just kind of kept recalibrating me.

I'd probably be way off the
rails, if not for her, maybe.

Um, but I'm not because she managed
to like a little guardian angel, keep

me on, on, on a good Ford positive
path, but listening to my sister-in-law

the right person at the right time at
the right moment in that millisecond,

my life changed for the better.

Isn't it

funny how we can get advice from one
person and we take it differently

than if we got it from somebody else.

Correct.

And, and not always.

and, and by the right person, it
could be the wrong person, just

the right person at that time.

Right.

And, and, you know, it could be a
person sitting on a bus bench mm.

Waiting for the bus.

Mm.

And they just say the right
thing at the right time.

And you never see that person
again, but they change the

course of your life in a big way.

If you can be

open, that's it.

I think you have to be receptive to it.

You have to be open.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I can think of two examples in my life.

Just minor things.

When I was a kid baseball, keep your eye
on the ball, keep your eye, the ball.

And I'm swinging.

I can't hit it swinging
and I can't hit it.

Finally, someone says.

Just watch the ball the entire
time it comes through and watch

it hit your bat and leave.

Oh, that's what you mean by
keep your eye on the ball.

Right.

Just a little bit of a reframing.

Now I can hit the ball or, and I
remember I was on a, a youngster,

I think it was 12, 13 years old.

I was doing a, a six week course
at cadets and we at camp and

I was dicking around like in

Vernon.

In Vernon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did, uh, six weeks in Vernon, myself.

Oh, did you really?

Yeah.

Army cadets.

Yeah.

So I, I did, um, uh, several
years there doing, I think

this was a, uh, a rifle course.

First time they had a, um, um, uh, a rifle
course set up strictly and I moved from,

they placed me in alpha company and he
said, that's the one you want to be in.

Cuz you're doing good.

Right.

And I know I wanna be in the rifles.

Right.

And so then they transferred me to Bravo.

Like you're not listen,
I want to be suit rifles.

So anyways and there I
was, uh, goofing around.

I wasn't on that course.

It was a previous one.

And um, I.

This guy comes up and he was a, a captain.

He says, Travis, what are you doing?

Oh, you know, just doing, doing
the typical thing that I do.

Right.

And he says, well, if you're
doing it, why, why not?

Wouldn't it suck to do this course.

It's been six weeks of your life
and fail and have to recourse.

Well, yeah, that totally suck.

So if you're not gonna fail,
why don't you just be the best?

Right, right, right.

Or try to, and that's the same
thing that everyone in the past

has said, you know, try your best,
do your best, go away to do it.

But for whatever reason at that time,
that was a big life change for me.

Okay.

If I'm gonna put my time in and put my
energy in, I'll try to be my best at it.

So, but you have to be
receptive and the right person.

Yeah.

And, and, and the right person, as
I said, could be, could be just a

random person sitting on a bus bench.

But I would suggest, I would
argue that it's rarely, that.

And more correctly, it's often a person
that you respect mm-hmm . And so one

of the reasons that I find myself
doing, um, social media nowadays,

trying to do my best in, in a sense,
or even this podcast right now is as

we're talking, I'm trying to do my
best just to be authentic and natural.

But at the same time, I've got
this veneer or this overarching

theme that is constantly running
through my, through my peanut.

And that is, I gotta figure out a way to
be able to, um, loosely inspire someone

else out there to carefully listen to
what we're talking about right now.

And that is, um, not just do your best,
but when, when, when it feels right when

the right person says to you, Hey bro.

you got this, but I know you got better.

So go make a mark in the world.

Mm-hmm however it's explained to you.

Um, if, if you hear it,
then execute against it.

Don't don't let it blow by
like leaves in the wind.

I mean, yes.

You, you, when you feel it, yes.

Reach out and grasp it and hang
on for the rest of your life.

Yes.

No matter how wild the ride gets,
because that's the beautiful,

uh, that's the beautiful journey.

Yes.

I, and I, you know, that's
something in my life, just from a,

a gut level, I get a gut feeling.

I should do something.

The second I get that feeling.

I have to execute on it.

Mm-hmm I know in the back of my head,
if I don't, there's a reason why I had

that feeling, whether I was conscious
of that reason or not conscious of

the reason I have to now move forward.

Likewise.

If somebody comes up.

It makes a suggestion like you
do, I'm gonna have to sit down

really hard and analyze do I think
there's value to that suggestion?

And if there's a little bit of me
that thinks there's value, okay.

I'm gonna have to execute on that.

Um,

yeah.

You know, you, you you'd said to,
to me that when you're in cadet

camp, someone said, Hey, well,
you know, just do your best.

I recall, uh, no names.

I won't mention any names or what
phase of my mil military career.

It was, it was quite early.

Um, but someone was barking at me barking
at me, hard, uh, with a lot of F bombs as

my name was dropped in between F bombs.

Right.

And, uh, was explaining to me in no
uncertain terms that, um, I needed

to get my act together and I needed
to demonstrate my best effort.

Mm.

And if I did then good
things would come of it.

And if I didn't, then I
would be off that course.

Mm.

And man, it was explained to me in
a way that made sense at the moment.

Right.

And, and this is what my young
military career mind took

as the simple message, man.

If I can do my best,
maybe I'll be my best.

Right.

And, and that led to, you know, a
lot of courses that I did, I'd be

top candidate, uh, simply not because
I was better than anyone else.

It's just that I got it in my head
that I had to do my best to be my best.

And, and generally speaking, that
would be the outcome mm-hmm , uh,

you'd be topping a course or you'd
be top through your, whatever.

I, you know, the numbers
aren't that important, but.

What is important is you would
see your best version of yourself

at the end of that process.

But that only came about because on
the daily, I was executing against the

task in front of me in the best way
that I knew how, and over the course

of a week, a month, a decade, the,
the outcome was you were something

that you could be proud of, I suppose.

So had that not happened in your
early career there, and let's say

no one else was able to get that
message across in the same way.

Would you see your life
unfolding rather differently?

Like, was that certainly I think so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think so.

But you know, the, the reality
is, and, and to kind of reverse

engineer your question, right?

Um, it was inevitable that that
moment was gonna happen, right?

Because I'd put myself
into a environment that.

It was always gonna happen that I was
always gonna be faced with someone who

was going to challenge me in a right
way for me to have a right outcome.

Mm.

And that, that wouldn't have happened if I
would've, I don't know, chosen a different

career, uh, where I wasn't surrounded
by strong, competent, capable leaders.

Mm-hmm if, if I would've gone
down a different route, I wouldn't

be the person that I am today.

Mm-hmm , uh, because I wouldn't have
been challenged in the same way.

And I think what is important in that,
uh, statement is for any young man or

woman that's listening to this right
now, we're, we're older, I suppose.

Sure.

If you're, if you're finding yourself
where you're not challenged right now

by your, uh, immediate surroundings,
Maybe it's time to go find some people

who will challenge you that aren't
in your immediate surroundings, and

I'm not suggesting you gotta start
a new hobby or a new martial art, or

you've gotta move to a new country.

I'm just saying, start following
people who are inspiring right.

In, in a challenging way where you realize
that there's levels to the game and

that your baseline performance, though.

Good can be better, right.

Can always be better.

It can always be better.

Funny.

Yeah.

Um, you talked about the term
PTSD is what you said when, you

know, the term PTSD came to mind.

Uh, I think it's one of these things
that I've learned talking with others,

the DSM, what are we on five now?

I think

it's five, five point, whatever.

Right?

So the term PTSD changes with time.

It does, uh, and it devolves, as people
are trying to get a grasp and they're

trying to label these things and.

Some people will clinging to labels
in a way that's very productive.

They say, okay, I can see this.

This is good.

And I can put a box around it.

I can recognize when
something's happening.

I can make adjustments.

And some people will clinging to
labels and say, well, that's just me.

That's my PTSD.

And there's nothing I can do.

I think there's, um, two very different
types of personality types there,

but it's really important to find the
one that's gonna bring you to a more

proactive level of awesomeness as you
put, put there and you talked about meds.

Um, and I know some people said
meds, keep keeping me away from 'em.

Other people say, no,
there's a place for them.

Uh, it's another area where I
can see, uh, a lot of stigma.

I don't want anyone to
know that I'm doing meds.

I don't, whatever I might be.

Right.

Um, I'm no doctor, but I would think
that, uh, There's a time and place

for meds, perhaps they shouldn't
have the stigma that they do.

Maybe there's a, when they talk about
chemical imbalance, uh, I don't think

anyone can qualitatively quantitatively
say what the proper balance should be,

but there is places where they can help.

But I think that people still need
to have, it's like going to physio.

Okay.

You're seeing the doctor, you got
your surgery, you got your meds.

You still have to have a process that
you're working on physically and mentally.

So you can get to a point of
normalization where you don't don't

have, don't have to have that.

And normal is, is what, right?

Like what is normal, if you're happy,
if things are clicking in your.

as abnormal as you might be if you're
fitting in with your surroundings

and others, and you're happy.

Awesome.

That then that's normal.

Agreed.

So a few, a few different thoughts on it.

I don't really know
about the med one though.

Uh, I I'm with you, I'm in the same boat.

Why would I want to do medication?

Why want to alter my, my, my
mind in a certain way, but I,

there are some that would argue
very strongly against me on that

one.

Yeah.

So I'm gonna touch on that in a sec,
but I want to go to, uh, a little

bit of a different area that you
raised and rightfully so, and I'm

so thankful that you brought it up
as a point of that conversation.

And it was initial frustration of mine.

When, when I started, um, becoming
more involved in the, the mental, uh,

mental health space, mental wellness,
uh, in specifically with veterans, uh,

first responders and law enforcement.

now I'm not suggesting that this is,
uh, widespread or, or it's, it's really

common, but there is a, there is an
element of, uh, that demographic that

is struggling with mental health,
where they have chosen to take on

that label of, well, I've got PTSD
and every day is, is night marriage.

Right.

And, and they've they've, and, and I'm not
taking anything away from them, however

long they've been in that, in that space.

Um, you know, they're, they're doing
whatever they're doing, but what I've

found with some folks is they've,
they've latched onto that title of right.

And, and, and then that becomes

them.

Right.

And it should never become you.

You are not your correct condition,

correct?

Correct.

And, and further to that point,
They now gain some level of

satisfaction with being that guy.

Right.

And it's a sick kind of, it, it's
a, it's almost a perverse right.

Approach to, uh, mental health where
they're struggling with their mental

health, but they're embracing the,
the struggle as a good thing, rather

than something that they need to work
through to become a more awesome person.

In fact, I would go so far as to say
that I've spoken with individuals.

I know of individuals who are continuing
to slip backwards because they are not

just latching onto the negative aspects
of their mental health, but they are

they're, they're, they're embracing it.

It's it's their identity.

Right.

And they, they can't move beyond
that negative identity because.

It makes them feel good to be that person.

Uh, it makes them feel good to be that
guy or girl who is struggling so hard.

And, um, man, I just, if anyone's
in that position, I just wish they

would listen to what I'm about to say.

And.

you can do better than that.

You there's no need to slide
backwards continuously.

And if you can't see the, the necessity
to move forward in a more positive

manner for yourself, then start
seeing it for the team around you.

That is amazing.

What, what better way to make yourself
better than to try to be better for

others so that they can see how much
improvement you're making on the weekly,

monthly, yearly decade path forward.

You could be an inspiration.

If you just in the next millisecond, flip
it all on its head and start focusing on

being a positive guiding leader, rather
than staying immersed in that negative

quagmire of a negative self identity.

That's almost like the perfect
place to end a podcast too.

that's that's amazing.

Um, was there anything that we should
be talking about that we haven't?

I know we, we touched on your book there.

I'm I'm looking up at my one camera and
it's, uh, blinking at me for some reason.

I'm wondering if it's reading the
smaller card instead of the bigger card.

So I'll, um, yeah, we'll, we'll make
an adjustment if we need to Jack.

Um, oh, there, there is.

When you, we were.

Talking about medication.

There's one thing that I would
like to add to that as well.

Um, I also have a medical prescription
for cannabis, so CBD and THC.

So I'm on medical grade, uh, CBD and THC.

And what I found for myself
is that, uh, medical grade C B

D makes a huge impact for me.

Um, the endocannabinoid system, if, if
you know anyone out there has never heard

the term, I'd suggest you look into it.

Um, there's certainly a lot
of positives to cannabis.

Mm.

And for me, uh, in respect to,
uh, inflammation or, um, you

know, I, uh, I, I did have some.

Physical trauma when I was in, on
the tubes blowing up and stuff.

And so I find that, uh, my brain
fog is significantly reduced

because of C, B, D, and THC.

And, and I'm not like a, I'm not
like a hippie that's partying up.

Like there's no Tamora.

I use it specifically.

And, and with a science minded approach
towards, uh, CBD and THC, uh, uh, on

a minimum basis for a maximum effect
throughout my day throughout my life.

And so if, if someone out there is
considering ways to either improve

their mental health space or mitigate
some of the negative thoughts that

they're having, that is an option for,
uh, interesting, a certain demographic.

I know another tier one fellow who went
over to Costa Rica to further explore, um,

psilocybin and, and, and different effects
on, uh, of the mushrooms and stuff for

the, for the use of, uh, Uh, PTSD mm-hmm
and, um, actually gave me a book to, uh,

to read through and educate myself, which
I think we mentioned before the podcast,

I got about 30 books on the go right
now, all of them at different places.

Some might start in the middle, some at
the beginning, I'm somewhere in that book.

So if he's listening I'm, I am
making my way through that, but, uh,

well there, so I, I too
believe in that as well.

And, and I've been down to south
America for a number of variety

of reasons, work and pleasure.

And, and while I was down there, I, I got
involved in, in a, uh, experience, uh,

with iowaska and San Pedro cactus, uh,
that was quite beneficial, uh, a unplanned

thing and probably less structured than
it should have been but, uh, you know,

that's an entirely different story sure.

Itself, but in respect to psilocybin,
um, I have, um, I won't say

experimented, but I have considered it.

Uh, in a, in a number of
ways over a period of time.

And so I have microdosed
psilocybin over the last.

Nearly 20 years, certainly
last 15 years, for sure.

Yeah.

It's been helpful.

Uh, it's very helpful.

Interesting by, by microdosing, if
anyone's listening out there, uh, I

mean like 0.2 grams of, uh, psilocybin
scaled out on a very precise measurement.

I'm I'm not the kind of guy who
throws caution to the wind when

it comes to these kind of things.

Right.

Um, I, I think that they're for
the right person at the right

time under the right conditions.

I think there's benefits to
plant medicine, for sure.

That's interesting.

Cause I always thought
that the idea behind that.

I, I remember reading an article and they
said if a person was knocked unconscious

and they were given the psilocybin and
then they're woken up afterwards, would

they have the same positive effects that
they're finding in these studies, if

they didn't actually experience anything?

And the answer was no.

And that these people actually needed.

Was it the set and the setting?

I think they right.

Set setting.

Yeah.

And they needed to have that
experience in order to have

the positive effects later on.

Um, yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I, I think you're right.

It you're, and you're
right to raise the point.

I don't believe it's, you cannot
just simply Bumble into this

thing and, and flip a coin.

Now it's heads, then I'm gonna go
with this dose instead of that dose.

And it's gonna happen right
now instead of plan tomorrow.

There it's something that should
be treated with due caution.

Mm.

Uh, but it should be considered as
a positive, rather than a negative.

And to think of it as a positive, you
have to consider it more fully rather than

just, uh, well, let's see what happens.

oh man.

Okay.

Um, Maybe your book.

Did you want to touch
on that a little bit?

Sure.

I can touch on it.

And, and I will start by saying, first
of all, that the book kind of came about,

um, unexpectedly and it was because
S had come into Rosalind so that we

could meet and hang out a little bit.

And through a process, we
ended up recording for over

the course of seven days.

Uh, uh, once in the morning, once in
the afternoon, we recorded 25 hours of

audio on a number of subjects leadership
and this, that, and the other thing.

And, uh, SEP says
there's a lot of gold in.

and, and I mean, anything that sub's
involved in is gonna have gems.

So , um, and at, at the end of it,
I said, so what do we have here?

Because I wasn't really clear on
what we were doing and per se mm.

And he said, this is a book
that you're looking at.

And I said, okay, that's cool.

Um, and so since then, uh, there has
been a, uh, transcriber involved and

there has been an editor involved.

And as you know, the
process takes some time.

It does.

Yeah.

I've, I've done a book myself
in the past and an unrelated

field, which, uh, is important.

And so the, the process takes time.

Here's where I'm at with it right now.

And, and perhaps said is
at the same point as well.

We, we were gonna talk this week,
but we haven't got around to it

since I came back from Europe.

Um, In my opinion, whether it turns
into a book or whether it turns into

a cartoon series is, uh, is less
important to me than the process.

And so those 25 hours of
audio recorded material were

extremely important for seven.

I, to not only gain a, an extremely
strong relationship just as you

and I are doing right now, when
we first started recording this.

And now as we come towards the end of
it, our relationship is better because

we've shared some moments together.

We've in real time.

Yes.

Got to know each other.

Yes.

Well that's what seven Andi did over
those 25 hours of recorded material.

I, I think of him as a brother right now.

Yeah.

From another mother.

For sure.

He's an awesome dude.

He is, but I wouldn't have thought.

Uh, pre 25 hours of, of,
of that recorded week.

And so, uh, I'll go to the
ends of the earth for that guy.

And, but I couldn't have said that before
we shared all of that time together.

So what, what will it turn
into it's anyone's guess?

But what it's already achieved for
me is, is a home run that's for sure.

And so perhaps it will be leaked audio
in conjunction with some visuals.

Uh, we'll see where it all goes again.

It's unimportant to me where it goes.

I know a lot of people are,
are really tugging on my sleeve

and saying, when's the book.

I gotta read the book.

The book's gonna be awesome, et cetera.

And perhaps, and I'm not sure when,
but if it doesn't turn into a book,

uh, make, make no mistake, EV it was
worth every minute and good will come of

it.

I really like that approach, not
just to a project or making a book.

An approach to life.

Yeah,

for sure.

And, and by the way, one of my
central themes throughout my life,

uh, actually since, um, I joined
the military is turning things into

tenure programs or tenure projects.

And when I turned 52, I started
a tenure project called BJ J and,

uh, I'd been doing martial arts.

Till that point for about, I think
32 ish years or something like that.

And, uh, so yeah, 32 years, I'm now
plus 40 years of, uh, martial arts.

Wow.

But when I turned 52 that week, I
tied on a white belt in BJ because

I was gonna start a new project.

And how I frame things is
it's a 10 year project.

I'll see where this goes.

I'll give it my best effort.

And at the end of those 10
years, I'll, I'll reassess.

Now I know how it's gonna go.

Mm-hmm as it does with
all of my projects.

Yep.

I'm 12, I'm 15, I'm 18 years into it
at that point because man, if you put

yourself into something, if you commit to
something somewhere along the way, you'll

realize the value of commitment and you'll
realize why you committed to that thing.

And then the rest takes care of itself.

Sean.

I think that's a great way to wrap it
up before this light keeps blinking.

I'm sure it's, it's
getting faster and faster.

It must mean something.

It does.

it means we're we're reaching
peak awesomeness peak.

Awesome.

Thank you very much for
opening up your home.

Thank you so much for being
on the silver core podcast.

I really had a great
time chatting with you.

It was all my pleasure.

Believe.