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Join certified trauma professional Dr. Amy Hoyt and licensed therapist Leina Hoyt, MFT at https://www.mendingtrauma.com as they teach you how to recover from trauma and cPTSD. Trauma shows up in our everyday reactions and sensations and recovering requires a multi-prong approach that considers the mind, body and spirit. Dr. Amy and Leina will teach you the most emerging research and skills to empower you to overcome your past traumas. They address nervous system health, somatic therapy, trauma, cPTSD, EMDR, Neurofeedback, IFS (Internal Family Systems therapy), and many other modes of recovering from trauma. As mental health experts, sisters and trauma survivors, they teach you the tools that actually helped them recover, are backed by research and have helped thousands of their clients. Each episode is packed with clinically effective methods as well as scientific findings to guide you through your own trauma healing journey. Whether discussing cPTSD, PTSD, medical trauma, somatic therapy, nervous system regulation, EMDR or neurofeedback, Amy and Leina will help you recover from trauma so that you can reconnect to yourself and others.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode. We are excited to be here live again. Um, thank you so much for tuning in. Today's episode is something we feel pretty strongly about, and the research backs up how effective it is for trauma recovery, and that is mindfulness. So, Laina, let's talk about mindfulness.
What is mindfulness?
Leina Hoyt: Mindfulness is really about being able to be in the present moment and to be able to, um, be in an observer mind frame instead of a judgment mind frame or instead of being in the past or in the future. It's about staying in the present and noticing what's happening in the present, but staying out of like judgment and criticism and that kind of thing.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: I think, um, one of the things that What strikes me about mindfulness is how simple it is and yet it's incredibly
Leina Hoyt: difficult. That's a really good way to describe it. Yeah. It's one of those things that we think about seems too simple to help, but it really does help.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: Absolutely. I think for me, it took so many years to even.
access mindfulness, even the semblance of mindfulness. And so as we think about, you know, staying out of judgment or staying out of criticism, those are all wonderful concepts. And I remember feeling so agitated when I was younger, because I think I signed up for a yoga Meditation class. I think I was in my 20s and I I would I didn't know how to access it on any level so I went to the class and we sat and we were doing breathing and I just felt so Agitated and overwhelmed.
Yeah, so I'm think you know I always think of my younger self when we talk about all of these awesome tools, which now are in my tool belt. But back then I couldn't even figure out what the tool was to pick it up and stick it in my belt, you know? Yeah. It just felt so far off from my grasp. And so I kind of want to talk, I want to break it down even a little bit more for those listeners who just feel like mindfulness is just too far off.
I don't even know how to get there. And so in that sense, What are some easy, simple ways, I guess, that we can. Stay out of judgment or stay out of criticism.
Leina Hoyt: It's really hard because I was talking to one of my clients this last week and we were talking about how the brain compares and the, the brain is a few things.
It is a meaning making machine and oftentimes gets the meaning slightly off or a little bit incorrect. It is a comparison machine that is done for the mind The goal of safety. So if we can pair things, we can see which one is better. Um, but it, it goes sadly arrive when we're talking about social media and comparison, right?
So the brain, um, the brain is, I mean, A lot of times they call it the monkey mind. I know my brain is a monkey mind. And so it's always hopping around and going from branch to branch and chattering. So the, the ability to just notice without judgment is really difficult at first. And it takes a lot of.
Awareness that we are in judgment and it just takes a ton of practice So I can remember I first learned about this probably in 2008 and um And then I started listening to a you know Um, meditation app and those two things combined helped me in that in the meditation app. I thought I had to clear my mind of everything, which is almost impossible to do, and instead he walked us through this basic meditation and he talked about just noticing whatever it was that was happening.
Um, and that was really helpful to me. And then the noticing without judgment, do not judge myself or others. I just got better at with practice.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: Yeah. Yeah, you're, you're like a ninja at that. It's amazing. You're my idol. I'm serious. Okay, so what I'm hearing is that mindfulness is not clearing your mind. No.
It is not silencing the mind. In fact, it's just for me, I kind of visualize my thoughts floating. Oh, yes. And they come in and they go out. And sometimes I grab them and I hang on to them. I try and like spin them and spin. Yes. But then also I want to notice that like, okay, I'm I'm not able to let this thought go.
That's interesting. Exactly. And so sometimes when we visualize just something as simple as our thoughts or even our feelings floating in and floating out like waves. And what we want to avoid is creating some sort of narrative around what that thought or what that feeling
Leina Hoyt: means. Exactly. And again, because our brain is a meaning making machine that, that gets very difficult to do.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: And so if we do find ourselves Looking at a thought and then feeling bad about it. One of the tools we can use is to also notice that. Yes, exactly. Oh, that's interesting. I just noticed my thought of I haven't gotten anything done today and I feel lazy. Oh, that's interesting that I've attached a judgment to it.
Yes, very good. So, I mean, I like to break these things down because it was just so, it was like impenetrable for me when I was young. I couldn't figure out how to do this. Right. Very good. Again, it's practice and just, I want to encourage all of our listeners, just keep attempting these skills because they will start to concretize over time.
Leina Hoyt: Exactly. And, and you're building up these new neural pathways. So there's a neural pathway for noticing without judgment. And every time you do it, you are adding to the strength of that pathway. And I can remember when I was first learning how to do this, I had to do it like 20 times a minute. Yes. I had to like redirect my brain, redirect my brain.
Yeah. Um, your comment about thinking about your thoughts or feelings as floating by is so good because there's an exercise I do with my clients sometimes where you actually visualize your thoughts or your feelings. on a leaf floating down a stream and you can watch it coming from whichever direction it is in your head.
For me it's always coming from the right and it's on this leaf and it just floats by and then you watch it go out of sight down the stream. And for some people that does not work at all, but for other people, it can provide them with almost an instant shift in, um, nervous system state. It kind of down regulates them a little bit.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: 100%. Especially if you've grown up, um, with any sort of, um, framework about what thoughts mean, or if that makes you a kind or an unkind person, or a Quote unquote good person. Yes. And so when we can see that they are transient that they come and go I feel like it, um, has less weight for those of us who are, you know, we're raised with those sort of really high expectations.
When we talk, thank you for that, by the way, thank, thank you for kind of breaking that down and giving us another visualization. I think that's really helpful when we talk about observing the present moment. That is also something that I think can be really difficult. And you and I have talked about a couple tools that we really like for staying in the present moment. What is your go to for staying present?
Leina Hoyt: When I was first learning, um, about, you know, do not judge myself or others. One of the best things I learned, and these are grounding techniques, basically. So one of the best things that I learned that was helpful for me and my clients was to close my eyes and listen for four distinct sounds.
Because when you're doing that, you can't, you actually cannot concentrate on anything else. Exactly. You can do that. You can do that in like 10 seconds, 15, 30 seconds. The time frame doesn't matter. It just matters that you're getting your brain out of that like loop of rumination or obsessive thinking or trauma memories.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: That's right. Um, another, I love that. Um, and that's something you can do anywhere, whether you're at work or in a city or in a rural environment. Another, um, related skill is, you know, Engaging all the senses. What do I see? What do I hear? What do I smell? What can I touch? Those are all great ways of staying in the present moment.
I know when we do neurofeedback training with our clients, we also ask them to maintain an external calm focus. And that's one of the phrases we use as we have them start their neurofeedback training. What that does is helps them to stay present. Right. Um, so staying in the present moment is, is another skill that really helps us. Let's talk about What happens to mindfulness when we've had trauma?
Leina Hoyt: Mindfulness becomes, um, typically becomes much more difficult when we've experienced trauma, particularly developmental or childhood trauma, because one of the things that our nervous system does to help us to survive is it kind of shuts down and it goes, vagal response which is kind of freeze or paralyzing and when you're in that nervous system state you actually don't have as much ability to notice what's happening right now because your prefrontal cortex is not connected to the rest of your brain and your nervous system is not gaining enough energy to pay attention in a way that we want.
And so, like, just like you said a few minutes ago, like, we just want to notice that that's happening. Um, I know that for myself, I haven't been feeling well in the last few days and it makes Noticing without judgment really really difficult to do
Dr. Amy Hoyt: Yeah
Leina Hoyt: Because my capacity is being used to kind of do my essential things that I have to and I was talking to Wendy yesterday And I said, my mind is doing a good job of noticing with judgment.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: Oh My gosh, I can so relate. Yes, I, you know, I've had a virus for the last week and, um, I had the same thing happen yesterday where I just, just couldn't stay regulated in a situation and, um, you know, I, I processed this with you earlier today, but, um, All I, all I know is that it felt like the ground was kind of loosening beneath me and I, I didn't have the resources to stay regulated.
And prior to doing all of the trauma healing, I would have yelled, I would have bullied, I would have really. postured. Um, and yesterday I just started crying and devolving. And honestly, um, that's more preferable for me because I know that crying is one of the quickest way our nervous system regulates itself.
Leina Hoyt: You know, isn't that fascinating? And it's so hard for us to do because crying leaves us in a Vulnerable position. Yes. Whether our perception of the vulnerability is accurate or not. There are very few people who can cry when they're in public who don't say, I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. And it's very cultural.
But it's also very real. Sure.
Dr. Amy Hoyt: Yeah. And so I think what, what we're trying to let our listeners know is that, um, when you're not feeling well, it's difficult to be mindful. and to give yourself some grace. Um, and recognize that illness or, um, yeah, certain distractions, stress, exactly. Those are all going to make mindfulness more challenging.
The cool thing is that as we practice it, uh, we do get better at it and we do, um, you know, become quicker in our ability to get out of judgment and get, get back into observer mode.
Leina Hoyt: Yes. Yeah. And, and, um, one of the things that has become really prominent in my awareness over the last, probably 12 years is that when something really difficult happens, it's hard to respond in the ideal manner that we're looking for.
It just is. We're actually not meant to be able to respond calmly to everything that would actually be dangerous. And so when, when we recognize that we've responded in a way that we later decide was not the most healthy or productive, what we want to be able to do is we want to be able to use a tool then, even though it's two hours or three hours or a day or two days later, because as soon as we use the tool, we remember to use it and then use it where again, adding strength to those new neural pathways.
And so it's not too late and we can make repair attempts. We can apologize. We can take responsibility, that kind of thing. I think
Dr. Amy Hoyt: that's great. Yes. Use the tool when you remember to use it. And, um, with mindfulness, that is also the name of the game. And so if you find yourself out of your window of tolerance or unable to regulate, Using the, the tool of mindfulness and observing without judgment is it's never too late.
I love that. Well, thank you everyone for joining us. We appreciate you. We're so glad you're here and we look forward to being with you next week. Take care. Have a great week, everyone.