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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of youth sports parenting in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
What does it take for a young player to keep going
when the game doesn't make it easy?
When the cultures around you does not fully see
you, when you have to fight to belong, when talent is not
enough, and the real difference is hunger, focus,
and the ability to keep your own voice.
Today's guest is Talia Sommer, and this is one
of those conversations that goes way beyond the player's story
because because, yes, Talia is now
rookie starred Gotham FC has already moved to three
different soccer worlds
boy soccer
college soccer, professional soccer.
What makes this episode so valuable
It's not just where she ended up.
It is that her path teaches us about development
parenting, mentality, and the parts of the game
that families often miss
Talia's story is full of things we talk about on this show all the
time, but from a perspective, we do not often get
She talks about growing up between two soccer cultures,
about playing with boys in the environment where she had to prove herself
early and often, about the mental edge that
comes from being the underdog, or ending about the moment,
a player has to separate love of the game from pressure,
expectation, and outside voices, even when those voices
come from people who care about you most
She also gives us something really important for parents, a very
honest look at the line between support and
pressure, between helping and overachieving,
between wanting the best for your child and accidentally
making the game heavier than it needs to be
A lot of us in the United States can start to take the game
for granted and access to it, right?
We have full access, structure.
The idea that there is always another team, another league, another path.
Talia's story reminds us that for many players,
even the very talented ones, the game is still something that
you have to fight for, fight to enter, fight to stay in,
and fight to make it your own
So in this episode, we talk about identity, resilience,
women's soccer, culture, in the U.S versus abroad.
What American players do well, what they still may
be missing, and why mentality becomes even more important
as the level gets higher.
Yeah, it is about what shapes a player and what parents
should understand while the shaping is happening
Let's get into it.
This is chasing the game.
Liron: Talia Sommer,
welcome to Chasing the Game.
Talia: Glad to be here.
Liron: Talia, uh, let's talk a
little bit about your, your history.
You grew up, uh, between
New York and Tel Aviv.
Your path runs through many or
several different soccer worlds.
For those parents who are listening, can
you walk us through your path a little
bit from the beginning and when the
game started to feel serious for you?
Talia: Yeah.
Uh, so I was born in New York,
New York to two Israeli parents.
I grew up in Harlem on 113th
Street in Frederick Douglas Avenue.
So three blocks away from Central Park.
And honestly, the first time
I really heard about soccer, I
immediately fell in love with it.
Um, was when my uncle showed
me a video of Ronaldinho.
Uh, juggling the ball
immediately fell in love.
I was you need to teach me how to do that.
I was four years old.
Um, so I was I told him, take me to
Central Park, we're going right now.
And we took this random ball
that's not even a soccer ball.
I was dribbling around.
There's a video of me doing it still.
It was super unserious
and I just loved it.
And I remember I got my first
MVP trophy and a little kids
tournament and I still have it.
A, that's the only trophy I keep, that.
That's one trophy that
I'm I'm proud of that one.
Liron: Isn't America great?
Matt: Liron Always talks about
this trophy culture, and you
start off with this trophy story.
Liron: Yeah.
Isn't
Talia: absolutely.
Yeah.
But I was, it wasn't a participation
one, it was a most valuable player.
That's why
Matt: there we go.
There we go.
Talia: And, uh, yeah, and then
when I was six before first
grade, we moved to Israel.
Me, my mom, dad, and
my two little siblings.
And in Israel I started playing
soccer a bit more seriously.
It kind of had to become serious because,
uh, there was no women's or girls
soccer at that point, uh, for my age.
And so I joined a. Boys Team
Macabbi Tel Aviv which is one of
the best boys team in the country.
And there's a lot of issues with the
sexism and you know, just little boys
that don't, that don't, yeah, little
boys that don't wanna high five a girl
or 'cause you know, girls Ill, it's a
girl, you know, you're in first grade.
But I think that that was a super, uh,
important experience in my life and
really shaped me to be who I am and
shaped my love for soccer because it.
Turned it into something very intrinsic
that I love because of, I love
it, not because anyone else around
me tells me I should be doing it.
It was actually the opposite.
They never let me play in recess
and they never wanted me on their
team during, during practice.
And, but I kept going because
I just loved it so much.
literally just from my love to the game.
And I think that's when it
kind of got a bit more serious.
Macabbi was very serious.
I played with, uh, players Oscar
Gloukh and Tai Abed that are some
of the best players right now.
for the mens
Liron: Oscar Gloukh is in Ajax, for
those who who
Talia: Tai Abed is in, uh, is in Levante.
I think in La Liga now.
They were in the same team as me.
Yeah.
That was I think I had to
be kind of serious about it.
There was no really,
there wasn't a choice.
I couldn't just do it half,
half-assed, I had to go all the way.
I think that it shaped me mentally,
but also technically playing with
boys was always super challenging.
And I think it and because the level of
coaching in Israel was that high at that
point, compared to the girls I think that
it really helped me become the player
I am today and get that extra edge.
And then when I was 12, um, before
seventh grade, we moved back to New York.
Um, It was literally one
12th in Frederick Douglas.
We we, my, I always joke with my family,
like, we're like, oh, it's okay, we'll
move to the other side of the world,
but it can only be in the same block
radius from where like it's crazy.
But yeah, so, and then we were,
and then I went to middle school in
the Upper West side, and I played
soccer for Manhattan Soccer Club.
So that was my first experience
playing with the girls as a younger
as a teenager, which was lovely.
It was so
Matt: how, how, how do,
how dominant were you
Talia: Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I mean, no,
Matt: that stage, especially
coming from the intense environment
that you were coming from?
Talia: It felt real good.
I will say that like it felt really good.
Like all of a sudden I
was really appreciated.
Like they really
appreciated me at Maccabi.
but obviously at some point
girls and boys just change and
we were biologically different.
but like all of a sudden, like it was
with girls that are like my age and
are more like me and just it was so
fun to go to practice all of a sudden.
It wasn't like a mental battle every time.
But yeah, it was, it was lovely.
So in Manhattan soccer club I
kind of realized, I was oh damn.
I'm, I'm good compared to America as well.
'cause for, for women's soccer,
America is the pinnacle of soccer.
And so you always look to the US
women's national team to the NWSL
and that's where you wanna be.
Matt: can I ask you a question?
At what point did it shift for
you to, I really love this to,
this actually could be a career.
I might be able to get paid playing
a game that I love this much.
Talia: I don't think I have
yet to understood it yet.
right now as well.
I don't feel like this is my job.
I say, I say to my family,
oh, I'm on my way to work.
But I don't actually feel that way.
I'm, I'm going to kick a ball around
and do the thing that I love most.
I don't think I ever saw it as that's,
I wanna, um, I wanna be the best
at soccer so that I can earn money
from it and make a living I thought.
I think for me it was more just I'm super
competitive and I love this game so much
and when I play I feel the most happy.
And just, and and fulfilled.
And so I just wanna I'm I wanna keep
doing this for as much as I can.
And obviously that means after
college, you go play professionally.
For me, it's just I wanna be the best.
I love this game.
I wanna play as much as I possibly
can for the as many years as I can.
Liron: matt, it's almost
us in the podcast.
Only, uh, we're not making any money
and it's incredibly stressful and I'm,
I'm getting very little reward for it,
Matt: That's not true.
Liron, you love getting
stopped in coffee shops.
Liron: it's true
Matt: Uh, Talia.
So did you stay here?
in New York or did you guys, did
you go end up going back to Israel
before you returned to Butler?
Talia: Yeah, we, I went back to
Israel so I did high school in
Israel And I, I started playing
professionally in Israel when I was 14.
So at that point I started to
play in the, in the full in.
Israeli Premier League which I is crazy.
I look at 14 year olds now.
I was what?
What was I doing?
playing with 30 year olds?
it was great.
I think that was also a great
experience for me to, to be around
older girls, more experienced girls,
learn from them in that sense.
But also I, I always loved being the
underdog and being the young one out of
much older women was always fun for me.
I think that started from
when I was a girl among boys.
I love being the underdog
and I love proving myself.
So, and yeah, so that was really good.
But after four years in Israel, it was
more than enough Israeli soccer for me.
And I was ready to go to the US
where when I was 18 uh, I got a four
ride scholarship from Butler and,
I went for three and a half years
and yeah, I was in, been playing for
Butler for three and a half years, so
Matt: you actually go on a recruiting trip
Talia: They, so it was actually during
COVID that I was getting recruited.
'cause my class is a COVID class.
Luckily enough, I was at the national, in
the national team at that time as well.
So I was able to send
national team footage.
But yeah, it was me just nonstop.
I emailed hundreds of coaches, truly
just getting my name out there.
And, uh, eventually found Butler
and immediately fell in love
with the coaching staff, with
the program, the way they play.
Not so much Indianapolis, but it's okay.
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: Yeah.
Makes sense.
Uh, but as, as we reminisce about
what, again, I mean, you're so young,
reminisce, but you've done so much.
Let's talk a little bit about family and
if you put, put aside the big decisions,
the big clubs, but what did you, what do
you think your family got right early on?
Talia: I think for, I think about
this a lot actually, my relationship
with my parents and, and my siblings
and how that kind of shaped my
career and my, my love for the game.
I think that very, early on, my parents.
They knew nothing about soccer.
Absolutely nothing.
They have nothing to do with soccer.
my, my dad's a political
science professor.
My mom's a clinical psychologist.
they have nothing to do with it.
They, they're very athletic, but
they have nothing to do with soccer.
And they saw that I love it.
And they were just completely
there to support it.
They never pushed me.
I never I didn't really need to be
pushed 'cause I really loved it.
But they never pushed me.
If I was like, they're like, you have
to go to practice, or you have to do
extra work after practice or it was
more just very free to do what I want.
But also like if I needed something from
them, they'd a hundred percent be there.
Like at any point.
So I think for the early phases, that was
really good because it was okay, I, I'm
developing my love for the game alone.
just because that's what I
want to do and not because of
what my parents want me to do.
'Cause
Liron: very foreign to me.
I'm very confused now.
Uh, what, what, what's
happening here right now?
So they did not scrutinize
everything you've done or didn't
do, or read your body language?
No.
Talia: no, no.
Now when, now when I was that young,
um, I think slowly as it became
more serious and as things become
started to develop, I think at that
point, that's when my dad got started
getting a little bit more involved.
And I think, yeah, when I was, when
I was at, in Maccabi, with the boys,
they were just a support system, just
completely supporting me and helping me
through the mental challenges it takes
to be a only girl in a, in a boys league.
Um, and, and then I think once it
got to the point of MSC where we
kind of realized, oh, like this
can actually really go somewhere.
And like, and like I wanted to go
somewhere, like it was still something
that I wanted to do, not like something
that they were like, you need to be a
professional soccer player, or you need
to get a, a full ride from college.
But it was more just my dad realized,
I think that I have a lot of talent
and that it can we, together, we can
turn it into something even better.
And I remember there, there was hard
times, there was times where we'd come
back from games and my dad would be mad at
me for not scoring or not doing something
Liron: So all of a sudden
he's a soccer expert.
I thought he didn't know
anything about the sport.
Matt: No.
No.
All of a sudden, all of.
He's human.
Talia: That's that's what I tell him.
No.
And, and what he would say to that
was who watched thousands of minutes
of your soccer games your whole life?
Me, I know best.
I'm dad.
You know me very well.
I will give you that.
You don't know exactly what I need
to do, but I think with him, the,
a really big shift that I had in my
mentality was from being the only girl
underdog to being a top dog, almost.
being I'm gonna score, I'm gonna be
the one that scores today in the game.
I'm gonna be the one
that changes the game.
the game winner.
And taking that responsibility
not being as nice, almost being,
having that chutzpah, you know?
Um, and I think
Matt: Even I even, I know that word.
Talia: yeah, exactly.
If you, yeah, if you live in the
area, you're gonna know that word.
so I think I think that was a big
shift But still, there was a lot
of mental challenges with that.
And my relationship with my dad
got complicated at certain stages.
sometimes it was it was too much his
voice would be in my head instead of
my own voice telling me what to do.
I realized I'm, why am I
stressed about scoring a goal?
So my dad thinks it's cool, I need to be
Liron: a great reason.
Talia: Yeah.
No, it's a
Liron: What do you mean?
I don't understand?
Talia: Oh my gosh.
Speaking from a real dad, huh?
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: hey, what
Talia: Okay.
Dads, listen, your
Liron: on brand
Talia: your kids should not feel they
need to score a goal to appease you.
They need to score a goal so that
they know the amazing feeling it
is to score a goal for your team.
The amazing feeling that it is to
have your teammates jump on you.
That's what the, the feeling
of scoring a goal should be
Liron: No, I love that.
So you, you had a self-realization
that you were, that there was an
overbearing kind of voice that wasn't
yours in, in inside your journey.
Talia: Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think my dad and I speak a
lot about it now because we went
through a very good, process together.
I think, I was, I, I had a, a sports
psychologist at that point and I
was talking to him a lot about it.
And I think it was really good
because had to have, just having
an outside perspective sometimes
helps with these type of stuff.
And I think talking to my dad and
being dad I need you to be my dad.
I need you to just be the person
that supports me no matter what.
And just, I know you always
want the best for me.
And that's why you're doing
what you're doing and you're
saying what you're saying.
I know it's not from a bad place, but
for me, for what I need and the way
I can play the best that I possibly
can play, I needed to be my dad.
And so I think it wasn't just that
simple, like it took lots of conversations
and a lot of a lot of just ups and
downs and I think a lot of different
breakthroughs, but eventually, like we
are now in a place where I love talking
to him after games because like he
always has something cool to say that
I'm like, ah, I didn't think about that.
Or he was like, oh, you were
a bit like, like this today.
Because he know, he
really does know me best.
I never feel he's just
hyping me up to hype me up.
he, if he says something good, I
know it's, it's because it was good.
But he is also much more le not lenient
now, but he is just trust me to do what I
Matt: Well, you're a,
you're, you're a professional
footballer at this point, right?
He, as, as, as Liron and I talk about
often even our, our 14-year-old boys,
we've, we've gone past the point
really of being able to give them real
advice as far as their footballing.
It's one thing, the mental side of it,
which maybe we can, maybe we can't,
but I think it sounds your dad has
realized that, you know, you've made
it and there's so much more for you
to do, but his ability to impact your
football is probably very minimal.
But his ability to really support you
and, and know you and see your impact you
have on the pitch, because he's seen you
play so many times, is, is the real value.
Liron: It's beautiful.
Talia: yeah.
Absolutely.
Matt: When did you
Liron: he'll be able to talk about it
more when we interview him next week.
Matt: Hear his story?
When did when did you start having.
Those thoughts that he was in, his voice
was in your head a little bit, and when
did you start actually having the convo
or bringing this that subject up with him?
Talia: I think this was when I was 15.
So sophomore year.
And I remember I had a great,
great, great rookie season.
I was rookie of rookie of the year.
I scored 10 goals as a 14-year-old in
the first league and did just, did great.
I was, I was having, just having a blast,
you know, just a kid having a blast.
And I think after that season, I started
feeling there was more pressure on me and
at that point I was I felt it was just a
heavy on my heart and I realized I wasn't
scoring, I wasn't performing as well.
And it was really, really
frustrating for me.
I just felt I just wasn't doing
as much as, as well as I could be.
And and I think I realized kind of why,
I think there was just a lot of pressure
a lot of pressure on me and, and, and
it, there, there it didn't need to be.
I did great the year before
and there was no pressure.
it was just going and I wanna, I
wanna just go and play my game.
And I think that was kind of at the
end of that season, I think that's
kind of when I realized okay, I should
probably do something about this.
I scored one goal and the whole
half of the season, I did not
do as well as I did last year.
So yeah, I think that was
kind of when I realized it.
Yeah.
Matt: Talia, we talk often on this
podcast about how youth soccer in America.
I think it's this way for girls.
It's certainly this way for boys
that 95% of the structured play
is within age groups and that.
That becomes very
difficult for 18 year olds.
For example, when they get to college
and they're playing with 22 year olds
or, and it gets even more difficult when
you're a 20-year-old and you're playing
with professionals who are earning
their paycheck and they're either grown
men or grown women or whatever it is.
How, how much do you think playing in
Israel in the first division helped you?
Because you were 14, playing with
30-year-old women, and then when you
came to the states to play in college,
it wasn't shocking for you at all, right?
Talia: no, it was underwhelming.
I played with women twice my age.
Matt: Yeah.
Talia: Yeah.
So a 22-year-old, it's ah, you're my age.
Um, yeah, I, yeah, that it
is a really big difference.
I didn't think about that actually.
And it's actually an interesting,
because in Israel, in women's
soccer, there aren't enough girls.
So there's age groups.
It's 11 till 14 is an age
group, 14 till 18 age group, and
then 18 and over is the pros.
I think playing with people that
are older than you is always good.
There's always something to learn.
I think that in college, there's
something very weird with the freshman,
sophomore, junior, senior, dynamic.
It's so ingrained in the
culture and such a huge deal.
Which was something I
wasn't used to in Israel.
but I'm really glad I went to a place
like Butler's was not like that at all.
As a freshman, like I was treated
like any, any other player.
but I think as advice that I would
give to people is to embrace it.
embrace being a rookie, you
don't have any responsibility.
You just go and have fun and enjoy the
fact that you're playing with older people
that have much more responsibility, a
much heavier future ahead of them because
they're oh, I either I need to go pro
or I need to graduate from college and
start a career or whatever it might be.
So I embrace being new and,
and embrace learning from other
people and just playing free.
Liron: And what about the contrast
of playing in Israel versus seeing
soccer in the United States?
Talia: For me as a woman's soccer player,
it's it's, it's completely different.
It's really comparing apples to oranges.
in, in Israel there, women's
soccer is basically non-existent,
in the public sphere.
Um, and the really in every sphere.
So I think that there,
there's no infrastructure,
there's nothing there really.
it's just us left to our own devices
trying to make something out of nothing.
And in America it's an empire.
it's the biggest women's
football empire in the world.
It's, it's the facilities,
it's the amount of clubs.
It's the fact that one outta three girls
plays until they're 12 or something.
some crazy statistic that.
And that makes it a whole
different ball game.
Completely.
Liron: now I understand really
the, the disparity between the two
cultures as far as women's soccer
is concerned, but men, male men's
soccer is, is massive there, right?
It's it's on TV all the time.
People talk about it all the time.
Do you feel that that is also part
of your culture when you're there?
'cause you're playing the same sport
Talia: I think it's
completely separate, honestly.
I think 'cause just women's soccer
is so frowned upon in Israel,
you're women playing soccer.
kidding me, it's not a women's sports.
You know, stuff where in America
you you'd hear someone say that.
You'd be are you from the stone Age?
Matt: And I mean, I, I can't speak
to what's happening in Israel around
women's soccer even since you left.
But I mean, if you look at the rest of
Europe now and the progress that's been
made in the last 10 years, I mean, in some
ways you're playing at the pinnacle in
the NWSL and Gotham and Gotham has won.
But, but all of a sudden now,
Europe and these massive clubs
with this incredible history have.
Professional women's teams that are
on television that are drawing great
crowds, getting global attention.
How do you think about that as, as
far as a pathway in in your career?
Talia: I mean, I would love to, that's
I think for me, because, you know, my
uncle showed me Ronaldinho, Barcelona.
That would be the dream.
That's the ultimate, ultimate dream.
playing for Barcelona and AC
Campo, in front of 90,000 people.
of course that's always, and also
just playing in England, you're seeing
you, you see clubs Arsenal and Chelsea
just creating an empire as well.
And so, but yeah, and I think it
is really interesting to compare
American clubs NWSL clubs and
and, and European clubs you have.
there in America, you kind
of start from nothing.
with women's soccer, NWL clubs
start, start from nothing.
There isn't really that history that
you have in clubs Arsenal or Tottenham
or whatever it is, with hundreds of
thousands of fans, all over the globe.
But in England as well, or in
Spain where you have 90,000
people coming to Barcelona games.
it's, it's I think in a way America's it's
weird because yes, it's it's, they've al
America has always been the best forever,
but Europe is there at this point.
I mean, Spain law won the last
World Cup, so you know, you already,
we already, we're already seeing
the shift happening for sure.
I think European teams are
definitely it shifted over the
past, let's say seven years.
I think seven years ago, all the
top five teams would be NWSL teams.
I think today, I think today there's one
or two NWSL teams that are the top five,
and then Barcelona Arsenal and maybe.
Chelsea or something.
in Europe there's four leagues that are
really good and you have only one league
in, in America and there, there still
take two of those places in the top five.
Matt: What, what do you, I'm curious,
um, when you got to Butler and
you were surrounded by, I would
imagine, mostly American players,
Talia: Mm-hmm.
Matt: what did you see from American
players from, from a talent perspective?
Technical, tactical understanding
of the game that either surprised
you or, or, or didn't surprise you.
Talia: I think they're very much the same.
I think that the American players
all brought something they
were really solid and good at.
And I think the Big East in general is a
very good league for, for women's soccer
and but every, all the players that I
was really impressed with, I was oh damn.
she's special.
They were all internationals
at the end of the day.
they're all girl, girls
from different countries.
There's this one Serbian
girl, she was unreal.
So good.
But every time I would
be oh, she's really good.
I'd like, see the roster.
And I'd be oh my God,
she's from another country.
she's from Serbia, she's from
Malawi, she's from whatever.
And I'd be what?
That's crazy.
I, I seeing a certain type of soccer
being played that is a bit more
creative, I think is, is what I'm
attracted to and, and that's oh my God.
Yeah.
I love the creativity in someone.
But, and I just, and I think Americans
did the simple stuff so well, their
passes were on point technique was great.
They were super fit, super strong.
Knew to be tactically the
coach told 'em to be there.
They'll be there, they'll do what
the coach says, no questions asked.
But there was no outside
of the box thinking.
That's that I think was what makes
a soccer player really unique and
stand out and makes you good enough
for the next level, you know.
Liron: That's incredible, Matt.
It's what we heard from Nil,
coach Neil last episode too.
But American players being incredibly
prepared in a way, technically there a lot
of touches and have a, a physically fit,
but missing a little bit of that kind of
little bit of magic, that little bit of
kind of improvisation or understanding
of deeper understanding of the game.
And I wonder if that has to do a lot
with, with coaching culture as well.
Uh,
Talia: Yeah,
Liron: know.
I
Talia: Yeah.
I also, I remember when I was in middle
school and I was here, I had a girl on
my team who practiced this one move,
it was during futsal season, so she was
practicing with a, a sal ball, a little
behind the leg, some, some move and she
was like practicing it again and, and
again and again and again and again.
And then she pulled it out in a game and
it looked so manufactured and curated.
And I was that doesn't look real.
It kind of worked she kept the ball.
I was okay.
And it looked cool, but it
didn't actually do anything.
And it looked she was thinking in her
head, okay, now I'm going to do this move.
I've practiced 1700 times.
And I just don't think Lamine
Yamal doesn't think before
he, he does something amazing.
he just does it
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah.
That's why everyone in the world
knows him by his first name.
Liron: When, so when you, you're, you
spend this time in college and now
basically the path splits in two, you
have those that go pro those that go
into, I don't play soccer anymore.
What would you think was the separated,
uh, element between the ones that
went pro and the ones that didn't go
pro from those who wanted to go pro?
Talia: I think, I think again, it's a
little bit different with women possibly.
I think for a lot, a lot, a lot of women
soccer is the way to get into college
and then do whatever they want after.
So they love soccer 'cause they played
at their whole childhood, but it was
never something they wanted to do after
because they were gonna, they wanna
be pharmacists or they wanna be PAs
or they wanna be this and so they knew
that they didn't wanna play soccer
after college most of my teammates
were, knew that they were studying in
college to go be whatever they are after.
And soccer is this is their last year
of soccer, the last two years of soccer.
Liron: Even at a program like
Butler, that's incredible.
I.
Talia: Yeah.
And then I think and then the girls that
wanted to play pro and are going to play
pro knew they wanted to do that forever.
And it was the internationals again but
that's also could be just a Butler thing.
it was interesting.
all the internationals are going
pro but not really anyone else.
Liron: So, internationals came for
that reason basically to go pro.
But many of the American kids, that
wasn't, that wasn't their goal.
Talia: Yeah.
And I think also internationals are
more okay with going pro anywhere.
they'll, they're fine if they'll go
pro in in the US if they go pro in
Czechoslovakia, if they go pro in China,
it doesn't really matter that much.
obviously you wanna be in the best
possible place that you can, but for
women's soccer especially, there's so many
leagues that every single one of my Butler
teammates could have been a professional
soccer player in every single one of them.
But it's just for American
girls it's just I'm American.
I'm, I'll stay in America.
I'll go and settle down and get a job
and you know, work nine to five and just
it's not as much as a passion as it was
a path to get to where they wanna be.
Liron: And for you, there was no
question what, why you're there not even
Talia: mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My first conversation with the
coaches, that was my first question
so how many players went pro?
How do I go pro?
What's your plan for me to go pro?
Matt: And your coach.
And your coach was the scholarship is
Talia: Yeah, exactly.
He loved it.
He was yes, absolutely.
He's also, he was British actually.
So amazing coach.
I mean, best coach I've had for sure.
Liron: That's amazing.
Matt: when, when you think back to
the formative years when you were we,
we always talk about between, whether
it's, you know, eight and 14, I don't
know what the, the years are, but
where you can essentially become twice
the player you were the year before.
Right?
But then as you get older, you're growing
in increments of 5% or 10% a year.
How did you, in those formative years,
how did you think about development?
How much time did you spend, you
know, on purely technical development?
Liron: oh yeah.
Talia: I'll be completely honest.
I did pretty much know extra crazy
training, like outside of training with
my team and like maybe staying after,
maybe going to kick a ball around like
with my family or like going to, or like
literally playing in recess at that point.
Like 8 to 12.
And then when I started playing
with MSC, like I would go out, do
like shooting practices by myself
or with my dad and my brother.
Uh, and maybe some started doing
some strength training when I was
15 is when I actually started, I
think really going into training
alone, I think honestly I relied a
lot on my talent from eight to 14.
I think at that point for me, I was just
I'm gonna go play soccer, play freely.
And I think, I think that
was very healthy for me.
I think that having soccer be a place
where I was just free to express myself
and enjoy it without the pressure
of my parents paid $200 for this
guy to train me three times a week.
And turning it into something that
really If you have the right basis,
sure, an extra thousand touches
a week can make you a bit better.
But I think that the, the um, mental
gain that it gives you to just play
freely is so much more than that one,
those extra 1000 touches than what those
those extra practices can give you.
Especially at that age.
I think when I was 15 I was
okay, I need to get stronger.
I'm, I'm a scrawny little kid and I get
pushed around I need to get stronger.
So it's about getting stronger.
at that point I was oh, I know that
I need to work on my turns this way.
So I'd stay after practice
a couple minutes and do it.
Or I'd, I'd, I'd start going out
to the field by myself a lot more.
And I think, but I think throughout my
entire career, my biggest differentiating
factor, um, other than I think there
is at the end of the day, talent
so that you just have or you don't
have, but also was my mental side.
I think a player can be really good,
a really good technical and tactical
player, but if they're mentally not
there and just not ready to, to compete,
to make mistakes, to, to, to be better
after those mistakes, to believe in
yourself, then it doesn't matter how
many extra training sessions you have
it's gonna be hard to be a great player.
So in high school is when I
really started to work alone
and do extra stuff by myself.
And I also had a, um, one of my coaches
was also would do personal sessions on me.
Um, but it was once a week probably.
I did a lot of sessions with boys.
I will say I would train once a
week with boys as well in addition
to my uh, training with the team.
And then, um, in college I did a
lot of extra training with my coach.
He would just do 30 minutes sessions,
probably once or twice a week.
And I would swim, do extra
physical sessions that just help
my fitness and, and stuff that.
But really just keep as low
pressure as possible on soccer.
Liron: That, that, I mean, this is
extraordinary, But that hunger to
succeed was, as you were growing up, did
you have players you were looking at?
Did you have mentors?
Talia: I had Abby Wambach a US
Women's National team player
that I was obsessed with.
I was oh my God, she's my role model.
I had Modrić, who I still really,
really love, just to watch, play
and, and especially with the Croatian
team, there's something I just, I
love about the Croatian team so much.
the way they play together,
they're so humble.
Modrić just so humble, such a
great leader on and off the field.
you can just see how he brings the team
together and it's it's beautiful to watch.
So I think with him, that was
definitely, uh, soccer role model.
And then.
And then my coaches throughout the way.
I've had a lot of coaches that have
really, really, really influenced me.
Um, I'd say in the boys team, my first
coach, he was just fierce believer in me,
but also just treated me everyone else.
And I, that was, that was the best.
I just needed to be treated everyone else.
Um, I remember, we, we had a game
and I scored a goal and I was at
a right, a right, a right back
when I was playing with boys.
And I scored a goal, which
was didn't happen often.
And all the boys were
kind of shy to hug me.
And he was in halftime, he was
there's no way you don't hug Talia.
That does not happen.
She scored a goal, everyone
run and hugged her.
And then the next half I scored another
goal and everyone run and hugged you.
So they did what the coach told them.
You're all scared of him.
But, and I think also my coaches
in college i've never had someone
believe in me so fully that.
My coaches in college, um, there were
actually two head co-head coaches,
uh, a married couple Rob and Terry.
And Rob's this British dude,
Terry's American Girl, woman.
Um, and she, they believed in me from
the first second and just saw the
best in me and constantly pushed me
to be better in a, such a healthy way.
Um, so I think they were
really, really influential.
Now, between 18 and 20, 21, 22
I think I came out a completely
different player from Butler.
Completely, completely different.
Um, I'm, I'm so much more lethal
so much more so, I think, and
that was mainly a mental change.
Yeah, my shooting got better.
I've perfected my curly shot.
But at the end of the day, I
see the goal, I smell the goal,
I wanna shoot and I score.
So and that was something that really was
completely entrenched in me at Butler.
it's the mental changes that are really
the biggest and most important ones.
After you get to that point where you're
not really getting that much better.
you're not getting 20%
better every year, but yeah.
Matt: Yeah, I mean some of the examples
you just gave around your own, starting
from, you know, the realization that
your dad's voice was in your head to, you
know, 15 years old when you started the
work in on your own without being pushed.
I mean, you clearly mentally have had
an edge over probably everybody you've
been playing against or with, and then
you combine that with talent and, and.
You get professionals and you
get probably professionals who
excel from your experience.
I mean, how much of it is truly,
how many talented players did you
see where you were oh, she just
doesn't, mentally she's not there.
can you overcome that
from a mental perspective?
If you don't have it?
Is it something you're born with that
maturity and the way to think about it?
Or is it also something that,
I'm sure it's also something
that you developed along the way
Talia: I think I'll give all the credits
to my parents on the, on that one.
Honestly, I'll give 'em all the credit.
I think since I was a little kid, they,
they just made me a confident young woman.
they always were you know, and you know,
the modern parenting is super coddly and
stuff, and oh my God, that's so great.
when it's not that great at all.
That's not what my parents were at all.
But they just We're so
excited my successes and saw
the best in me all the time.
But with the other kids Can,
can you change a set pattern in
your brain after you're eight?
maybe.
I, it's not as easy, but probably
but I think it for parents,
it all starts from you guys.
Liron: Or ends.
Matt: Starts and ends.
Yeah, exactly.
Liron: Uh, do you think, Talia, I
know another impossible question.
but do you think you would've
been a different player?
If you did not have that growing up in
Maccabi, the me against the world thing,
and you would've been in the kind of
full access American system from a young
age, or would you still be the same
person speaking to us today as a player?
Talia: Yeah, I think I would
be completely different.
Completely.
I think the combination of.
Playing with boys and also moving
countries as a six years old, moving
continents as a six years old.
And then moving again.
I think that the combination of those
things having two cultures within me,
seeing what it is to live in Israel, which
obviously is not necessarily an easy life.
Um, and then also what it is to live
in New York, which in Harlem, which
is also not necessarily an easy life,
just going I think those experiences
also have a lot to do with my soccer.
But yeah, for sure.
I think that having soccer as something
super easy and not, not something you
seek and you have to work for, to be in.
I think it would've definitely
changed my perception of it.
'cause every day that I get
to play, I'm grateful for it.
So yeah.
Liron: So I, I I've, correct me
if I'm wrong, but I've heard you
had an opportunity early on to go
to Athletic Madrid, is that right?
So you chose Butler over Atlético Madrid.
Um, Can you talk a little bit about that?
Just so I, I, I don't know.
I kind of Googled it, looked at, it, went
back again when I said, uh, do I ask that?
I just talk to us a little bit about that.
Talia: When I was 17, I was in Madrid
doing a week trial with Atlético Madrid
with their, with their full team.
It went really well.
it was really, really refu, really fun.
At that point, I was already
committed to Butler, and then all of
a sudden, it kind of shook my world.
I was oh my God, they want me oh my
God, what am I supposed to do now?
But I think that I just I spoke
a lot about it with my parents
again, and I think we both kind
of came to the conclusion that I'm
not at that phase of my life yet.
I'm not in a place where I wanna
move as an 18-year-old, what is 18?
That's a kid that's not that's
the legal age, but it, you're
still a kid when you're 18.
And move to a foreign country where, I
don't know the language where I'm gonna
be playing with girls much older than me.
Living alone in a city
I've never lived before.
It just didn't seem the best
environment for me to be successful.
Um, especially 'cause I
still wanted to study.
That was super important to me.
I really wanted to get a degree.
And I didn't know if I, I probably
wasn't going to be able to do
that in Madrid at that point.
I knew I had coaches that really believed
in me and Butler that wanted me to go
pro, that knew that that was my goal,
and told me we will get you to that goal.
And they did it indeed fulfill
their promise, um, in hindsight.
And I think that it was just the best
move for me and soccer wise, at the end
of the day, I think I gained so much from
going through the rookie experience to
then becoming a senior on a team again.
And I've never really been the
most, the oldest player on a team.
Because
I always played with older people
than me or or I've just been
the same age as everyone else.
So I think that was a super
important experience for me as well.
Having the responsibility of the oldest
player, the senior, and yeah, so I
think it, for me it was super, super
influential and I see these girls
now going pro and they're 15, 16.
I'm you're losing your childhood.
you're losing such a, high school is not
just about, and high school and college
are not just about learning and getting
your degree or getting better at soccer.
They're about becoming full human
beings as well, about interacting with
people around you that are your age
about falling in love and breaking
up and, and doing stuff that kids and
high schoolers and college people do.
And I think it makes us better
humans and therefore also better
soccer players at the end of the day.
although obviously Atlético was a great
opportunity and I could've gone there
and I'm sure I would've been all right.
I'm sure I would've been happy eventually
and done great and it would've been
fun and everything, but I'm very happy.
with the path that I chose.
Just knowing that I just went
with my heart at that point.
Liron: did your parents say, Talia,
obviously you're incredibly mature, you
decide whatever's good for you, or was
there any input coming from them as well?
Talia: For them.
They have always let me
make all my decisions.
they've never told me you need
to make best decision or you
should make this decision.
It's always been mine to make.
I think with big decisions, I, we
always have just a very open discussion.
We always talk about we pros and
cons and the future and what,
what it might mean for my future.
And they're very, very, very
involved with my decision making.
But at the end of the day, they even if
I'm please, please just decide for me, I
can't, they will be no, there's no way.
you're, you're deciding it this is
your future, this is your path and
you, you decide what you wanna do.
Matt: Given your incredible wisdom,
What's the message to a 12-year-old
girl who's dreaming about playing
at Gotham and then in the NWSL or
playing at Butler University as
they try to pursue their dreams?
Talia: I think to focus on having
fun, honestly, enjoying the fact
that this is a game that you chose
to do this, and then every practice
showing up it's your last in a way.
I, for me, showing up to practice is
practice is so much fun when you're trying
really hard, it's, it's, it's so much
fun because then when you win the small
sided games, you're you go back home and
you're the proudest person out there.
So I think coming to every
Matt: And you still feel
that way, by the way?
Talia: Yeah.
I, oh my God, we won
small sided games today.
It was sick.
It was sick.
I was riding that wave all day.
Matt: I love it
Talia: So I, I think coming with it
with a lot of love and just joy is, are
the two most important things for me.
And I think that it leads to a very
healthy relationship with the sport.
Liron: Just, you're just extraordinary.
when a girl plays with boys
and you've gone through it?
Is there a misconception that
you think people have on the
outside when they see that
Talia: I think for me, as a girl,
the boys had felt they needed
to prove themselves so that they
don't get embarrassed by a girl.
And they, and then, and then it
was so easy to get past them 'cause
they would over overstep it and I'd
be oh, I'll just go the other way.
And it, it was, I felt bad because
the, the parent from the sideline
would, his dad would always be
you're letting a girl get past you.
And I'd be yeah, he, he did, he did
actually get alert girl past him.
But so actually
Liron: career.
Ruined.
That's it.
Talia: no fruit, there's a, oh
my god, actually crazy story.
I was at the beach in Tel Aviv
just juggling a ball around.
And this kid was Talia.
And I was Hi.
I, I did not recognize this guy at all.
He was we played, you played
against me when we were 10.
And I was what?
And he was and yeah, and you Maradonaed
me and my dad does not I, he told me that.
I was no way.
he remembered me.
I felt so bad.
He he still remembers his dad yelling
at him because I Maradonaed him.
I was oh my gosh, dude.
I'm sorry.
Poor guy.
Poor guy.
Liron: I could not have asked for a
more wonderful interview than this.
Okay.
Well, it's, it's, it's been
an, it's been an honor, really.
Talia: No, thank you
so much for having me.
It was really fun.
Matt: Yeah.
And congratulations on, on all
you've accomplished and uh, and
all you will accomplish, which.
As they say in Tel Aviv, w w wa.
I had to had that I waited, you know, 25
episodes for this.
This is the moment in the conversation with Talia says,
you're she talks to us as dads is just mindblowing.
Your kids should not feel like they need to score a goal
to appease you.
And that line gets into something much bigger than one game or one family.
because for so many of us parents, the intention is love, right?
We support, we believe.
But somewhere along the way, it can start to feel like the pressure
is too much for the child.
And this really helped separateate the two things.
Yeah, and she takes it even further when she says to her
dad, I need you to be my dad
I thought that was one of the most revealing parts of the whole interview,
because every serious player needs guidance.
But they also need a place where the game is not heavier than it already is.
It's a game, a place where they are seen clearly,
supported honestly, and not made to carry someone else's
expectations every time they step onto the field.
Yeah, and one more thing in this story is the part where she says
so much about how players are really formed.
She talks about this, the shape of the player.
I love being the underdog and I love proving myself.
You can hear that in everything she describes in her voice,
playing with boys, moving between countries, adapting
to different soccer worlds
fighting for a place constantly in the game.
That kind of path builds a certain edge, not just talent,
not just technique, a real edge and hunger.
Yeah, Talia is so impressive on
every single front.
I thought she was especially sharp when she talked about American players
because she is not
dismissing them at all.
She actually praises how prepared they are.
But then she says, there was no outside of the box thinking.
And that connects to so much of what we keep coming back to in the show.
Structure matters.
Coaching matters. repetition matters.
But eventually the game asks for something more, creativity,
freedom, feel, love, the ability to solve
problems in real time.
Taliaia Somer, Toda, thank you for joining us.
This was a conversation about much more than one player's path.
It was about maturity, hunger, identity, pressure, opportunity,
and what the game can look look like when someone refuses to
let other people define their relationship to it.
Talia
We're rooting for you and for everybody listening.
Thank you.
Yeah, Share this podcast as usual with a coach, player,
or parent who needs to hear it.
See you next time.
Shalom Matt,
This is Chase of the Game.