Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The fun & fascinating stories of Supply Chain & Logistics.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:00:03] Hi, my name is Bryndis Whitson, and you're listening to the Zebras to Apples podcast, the fun and fascinating stories of supply chain logistics. Today's interview is with my friend Barry Davidson. And actually, it's on location in Qualicum Beach. And I have been friends for a number of years, and he now lives on Vancouver Island. And so the last time I was there, we were able to get together for lunch and then do an interview afterwards, which is so much fun, I love this. So a lot of the conversation is actually about security and what is involved in the logistics of security and really showcases how much supply chain logistics really features in when you're, you know, helping to secure the Dalai Lama or other kind of areas, too. And it's a really great conversation looking at those different areas. So I really hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:01:01] So we're here in Qualicum, and I am here with Barry Davidson. And believe it or not, Barry and I have known each other for quite a few years. But before we became friends, our dads were friends and we didn't even know that, so.
Barry Davidson: [00:01:16] There's probably some stories there, we don't want to hear about them.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:01:25] No, probably not. So I kind of wanted to kind of talk a lot about your career because you've had a lot of different areas really touched, you know, logistics, supply chain, those kinds of areas too, so.
Barry Davidson: [00:01:36] Some would say I have a schizophrenic career.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:01:38] No, it's just everything built onto one thing onto each other.
Barry Davidson: [00:01:42] It is a phone book. Yes, it is a phone. But I can't build a resume now. Yeah, sure. No, that'd be great.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:01:48] And so kind of when you first got started, you were more security in policing in that kind of area too.
Barry Davidson: [00:01:56] Yeah, I came out of Mount Royal College into, ironically, the Four Seasons hotel chain. Okay. And was security assistant security director in Calgary at the hotel. So I cut my teeth on security there, managed to work my way into the Calgary Police Service as a communications officer for a number of years, and then managed to graduate out. And from there I was a short timer. I only did five and a half years, and then I moved into global risk and global security events and such.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:02:27] Well, and all of those pieces, you know, along your entire career have those areas that people aren't thinking about for supply chain or thinking of logistics. So like in that kind of military or like not or in policing, there's huge pieces that are really big, you know, that require a lot of logistics understanding.
Barry Davidson: [00:02:52] It was something that was missing many years back around security training and the good leaders mentored in this, but security around whether it's a static site or large scale, high risk events really can't be accomplished unless you're involved in every step of the the not just the planning, but supply all of the logistics check boxes. And one of the things I recognized early in my career was if I could become proficient across the board. And that served well, because when I left the police service, I ended up forming security teams for former world leaders and such. And we would not provide security teams for a client unless we actually had a hand in knowledge of logistics. So beyond just providing the traditional security, we were involved in transportation accommodations, all of that so that we actually had input to achieve the security goal and the safety goal.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:03:55] Well, and I'm sure that there's areas in that kind of when you look at those kind of moments that really stick out of like, oh, that was a moment that I can talk about as opposed to probably many moments you can't talk about. But is there one moment immediately that comes to your mind?
Barry Davidson: [00:04:14] There's a bunch. One of the areas that set us apart, and this is the long way around to answering that question is I got involved in crime prevention through environmental design very early in my career, and that generally had been assumed when you did VIP security and any kind of dignitary protection. But it was never formal. And early on with us, we again, on that logistics side, we would be looking at the entire environment. We were very holistic that way. And one of the things that is a tenant of Septeb is wayfinding and signage. And when it comes to security and such, especially in dignitary protection, because you're always in new spaces, no matter how good your pre site is, you're never that familiar with the space. And I can remember that we had, we were with General Powell on a speaking tour.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:05:10] Okay.
Barry Davidson: [00:05:11] And we were in a center that we should have known better. Yeah. Or at least my team member should have known better than he did. And we ended up the rather embarrassing story, but we ended up almost taking a wrong turn down the wrong set of stairs and had to catch ourselves halfway. And the fun part about that was my team member who took the wrong turn, we caught just as we were going the wrong way, and we simply explained to General Powell that unfortunately, this fellow had been a tank driver previously and that's why he was challenged.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:05:47] Oh, I like that. Yeah.
Barry Davidson: [00:05:49] He's a dear friend of mine now who has never let me live that moment down because General Powell thought it was pretty funny.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:05:55] Yeah. That's good, that's good. Yeah. Well and there's also too, when you're kind of like looking at the pre advanced stuff, what is kind of involved if you're doing some pre stuff like in the advanced lead up to those kind of moments?
Barry Davidson: [00:06:10] A lot of it is before you get on site understanding what you're protecting against. You know what the threats are. What are once you move beyond the risks and into those threats, what don't you have control over? Because and especially in today's day and age, much of what we're protecting against is not directly security related. It's weather, or it's medical, or those types of things. And again, that holistic approach, all of those things come together for somebody working professionally in that realm, especially for a team leader, because before you set foot on a pre site, you need to know what it is you're looking for.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:06:51] Completely.
Barry Davidson: [00:06:51] Because it really isn't. I don't want to say it's not a lot of traditional security, but that should be natural. That just comes. It's the rest of it. What's the demographics of the people in the hotel we're staying at? What's our access to medical services? If we have close access to medical in a hotel, for example. Who is that? And who do we need to do? We need to know who they are?
Bryndis Whitson: [00:07:12] Yeah. And do you need to vet that?
Barry Davidson: [00:07:14] Yeah, exactly. Because it's one of those ongoing challenges that a lot of times it's the theater of security. So depending on what you're protecting against, how much of it do you fly a flag of, this is what we're going to tell everybody we're doing and we're doing it, but actually achieving it's going to be really difficult. So it is very much that theater of security. It's like to a certain extent, screening and bag checks at a concert or at a large scale event. The chances of guaranteeing you're going to catch everything that might come in is very slim. But for most of the people coming through the doors, if they know that you're doing it, they won't try. So it helps you slim down the numbers, narrow down the numbers of what you're looking for, and then you start using other indicators.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:08:05] Exactly. Well, and it builds in those kinds of pieces too. So yeah. And knowing, you know, those kinds of different steps.
Barry Davidson: [00:08:13] That's right. And this is where being involved in logistics makes a big difference. Because you can't assume if you're a concert venue or something similar that your security people shouldn't be involved in. What's the design of the lineups? Like, do we design the lines so that we can have a view and see anybody that's indicating or, you know, showing indicators? Or has it been created for maximum people? And so we have no way of being able to identify somebody that doesn't fit in.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:08:43] Totally because you have to be able to see.
Barry Davidson: [00:08:46] Yeah those differently. Yeah. When we did when we did the Dalai Lama in Calgary, actually we instead of having serpentine lineups to the outside, we took it all the way around the Saddledome and then out to the streets. So we had a straight line. Yeah. And we had a bunch of people from the security industry that, I mean, we're not sharing our tactics and they're all saying, well, why would you do that? You're putting people on the street and such because we had staff and operatives that were able to walk the line and, and be in the line and see anybody that's exhibiting any kind of indicators we need to check on.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:09:20] Yeah, you can fully have a better eye on everything.
Barry Davidson: [00:09:24] Absolutely.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:09:25] Yeah. And that would totally. There's so many different techniques that you could use and there's different kinds of moments. So yeah. And you know, probably it has gone through so many different kinds of events and things like that. You know, what were what was another kind of moment that kind of, you know-
Barry Davidson: [00:09:43] It was another Calgary one, ironically, and it was on the Dalai Lama. And we had, uh, we were inbound with this holiness to the Saddledome. Okay. And I believe he was coming from somewhere around Canada Olympic Park, showing my age. And as the motorcade was getting closer, we were bringing him in through the loading dock. And so we've got the area nailed down, and we're watching everything. And all of a sudden, one of my people recognizes or identifies an old paddle rick fan across the river and up on Scottsman's Hill. And I mean, it's a clear line of sight to the area. So, you know, we brought that to our law enforcement partners' attention. And we had, I believe we had about 4 or 5 minutes before arrival. So we weren't at a point of calling off or anything yet and shortening that story up. What it ended up being. And there were a couple of carpenters with either contractors or City of Calgary that were repairing the stairs that had taken a break for lunch, because one of the things we recognized, we couldn't see anybody around the van. Right. And so they had a bit of a rude interruption to their lunch when several I believe their attack team members went to check it out. But it was one of those moments where we were a minute or two away from not bringing His Holiness in. And yeah.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:11:07] Because you have to look at those pieces and really insure.
Barry Davidson: [00:11:12] The extreme side. Right? That's the extreme side. We've had other things that are funny along the way, but in most cases it's almost my colleagues in the industry will be upset if I say this, but it's generally more about how do we make the event efficient and keep our client and our principal safe so that they can accomplish what they're there to accomplish?
Bryndis Whitson: [00:11:35] Yeah. Well, now you've piqued my interest with those funny stories.
Barry Davidson: [00:11:39] Oh.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:11:40] Any idea of one of those ones you can share?
Barry Davidson: [00:11:44] A lot of them we can't.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:11:46] No, of course not.
Barry Davidson: [00:11:48] Would not be good.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:11:50] Up to your imagination.
Barry Davidson: [00:11:51] We did have. We had a venue. Most of the work I did. So we only protected dignitaries. We didn't do any celebrity work. And there's some unwritten rules and some moments are pride escalations, if you could call them that. And the team of things you don't do. And one of those things is that you never get caught on camera. We would never get caught on camera because we tried to fit into the crowd. We it was not overt, but if you looked, you could tell who was security. Yes, especially the tight team. And we, as a favor to a friend for Comic-Con in Calgary when Leonard Nimoy came out.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:12:29] Oh, yes.
Barry Davidson: [00:12:30] Leonard was going to go down to Vulcan and do an event down there and such. And so they asked if me and a couple of my members would go down and help with their volunteers and handle security, because there were some ongoing threats that needed to be addressed from that region. And so and this may not be that funny to your audience, but being the team leader and the owner of the company and the one that preached about don't be on camera. I ended up being the primary with Mr. Nimoy. And sure enough, the front page picture is a full picture of me and less of Mr. Nimoy getting out of the truck all over every newspaper in southern Alberta. So I never lived that one down either.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:13:18] Fully. It adds to the yeah, do as I say.
Barry Davidson: [00:13:22] Exactly. Yeah. And I think I will use those words afterwards. Yeah. Afterwards, I had to buy a round for everybody.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:13:28] Completely. Well and it adds those extra kinds of pieces in those stories too. Yeah. And kind of going from security, you kind of kind of went a little bit into different types of security as well.
Barry Davidson: [00:13:42] We've, while getting the environmental side working through crime prevention, through environmental design, I've done a lot of community safety work, community engagement, which has led me into, uh, and truly, if I have to build a resume, I'm in big trouble around community engagement, work around that safety piece, and working with community associations and safety task forces and such. And within Calgary, I was on the mayor's task force. And when we cleaned up downtown, oh my goodness, that's like 30 years ago. Yeah. Now you see we're doing it again.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:14:15] But it really has made that impact. When you look at areas, certain areas of the town.
Barry Davidson: [00:14:20] Well and a big piece of it as I get older and cranky is that initiatives like that, they have to have a mission and a task and what's the goal of it? But I think the broader goal, if taken properly, is taking what we've learned from doing it before and when we do it again, because we will. It's a human issue. So it's not going to be solved and go away. Then we're able and hopefully smart enough to look back and learn from what we did and how we did it. And hopefully next time around it's more efficient, a little better. Currently, that kind of thing.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:14:54] And learning from those pieces too.
Barry Davidson: [00:14:57] Yeah. And I think that's whether it's security or community engagement or any of the areas I played in. It's the importance of that constant learning and not just book learning. I mean, I'm huge, I've built everything around relationships. And if the relationships aren't real and honest, I mean, you don't have to like somebody and take them to Christmas dinner for you to have a good relationship with somebody. So making sure that that's real is how you rather selfishly how you come out ahead.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:15:29] Yeah. Fully. Because you have to have those different kinds of pieces in order to manage the entire group. The various aspects, that and everything.
Barry Davidson: [00:15:38] Every relationship is based on trust. I mean, I don't think anybody can argue that no matter what direction you're going, you are going to start at trust and credibility and then go from there.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:15:48] Yeah. Well, there was kind of, you know, a conversation we had when I was working in the kind of supply chain sector, and we were talking about some of the stuff that you were doing kind of in the cannabis area, and there were so many fascinating moments that came out that I was quietly telling people like, did you know this? And they were like, really? Oh my goodness. And just kind of opened my eyes in different ways. And it from a security perspective, but also from a logistics perspective was fascinating.
Barry Davidson: [00:16:21] Yeah. It's funny, I spent about four years, four and a half years working within the regulated industry and was involved in over 500 licenses in doing security system design all the way through to regulatory work. And that's the thing you do in the operations. Yeah, no. And it's one of those areas where when you go beyond security, you start to see within government and within regulatory and regulated industries, you start to see how we can either help an industry or destroy an industry before it starts. Right. And and I mean, in Canada, I would say that Health Canada has managed to handcuff the industry so badly it never had a chance to succeed. But what I did learn, because I certainly wasn't pro cannabis before, but I also wasn't against it. I just didn't understand it and didn't really pay attention. That was something that went back to my college and university days. But once you start learning, the opportunities are there. And once you are exposed to the strength of other lobby groups around pharma and such, you start to see where that starts hitting government policy. And ironically, it was good for us, my colleagues and I, that the level of security required for a cannabis facility was greater than a pharmaceutical facility. In fact, we had a pharmaceutical facility in Alberta that was going for a cannabis license. And within the center of their building, we had to create a space more secure than the rest of this massive pharmaceutical facility. And it didn't make sense because we were literally protecting packaged cannabis.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:18:07] But especially and especially around, like, all of the other things that they were creating.
Barry Davidson: [00:18:12] And this company made some fairly significant drugs. So it was one of those. It was an interesting lesson for me, beyond the career side to understanding or trying to understand where we are socially around what society or communities' expectation is of different things, and how that can be so out of whack with reality. And I have to admit that the years there have made me look at other social issues and such with a different, a different eye.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:18:42] I would imagine. Yeah, it would fully change that too.
Barry Davidson: [00:18:47] Absolutely.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:18:48] Yeah. Well, and you know, when we were kind of talking it was like the when you were talking about like the shipment of, you know, these products that.
Barry Davidson: [00:18:59] In the, in the early years of the industry. And I'll admit, I've been out of it now for, well, for a number of years. Yeah.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:19:04] Right at the beginning that's still,
Barry Davidson: [00:19:06] They were as well protected. They were armored transport. And again, from a risk perspective, certainly we would quietly question that. But it was good for business for us to have to rate those procedures for people. And there were companies that made a good living doing armored transport. But when you consider what's rolling down the highway on any given day, that truckload of cannabis is kind of way down on the scale of risk to community and risk to anybody else.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:19:35] Yeah. And yeah, but it is that extra thing that you wouldn't have, like when we were talking about that area of, yeah, they the armored and all of those pieces, it was.
Barry Davidson: [00:19:47] Yeah, yeah. And it opened my eyes up because as we were putting things together, you, you do your research, you do your learning. And when you consider how many truckloads of liquor across Canada are stolen regularly in transit and yet they have no security. Yeah. So it just again, the learning for me was more along the lines of how irregular and disproportionate our policies are in different areas. Yes. And I don't, I know why. It's because of a lack of communication and a lack of alignment. But I've never quite been able to figure out why we consistently do that.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:20:26] Yeah, but it is when you think of it because you think of when you take an unregulated illegal industry and then put regulation on top of them, that would, I think add to that. Yeah.
Barry Davidson: [00:20:40] You know the perception.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:20:42] Yeah.
Barry Davidson: [00:20:42] Perception. Yeah yeah.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:20:43] Yeah. Unlike, you know, finding moonshine somewhere.
Barry Davidson: [00:20:47] Well exactly. Or and again the, you know, you get a 45 foot trailer full of booze depending on the booze. That's a $1 million truck. So yeah. Why are we not concerned if that gets stolen.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:21:01] Right.
Barry Davidson: [00:21:02] But that $250,000 truck of Bud is all of a sudden got armored transport.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:21:08] Yeah.
Barry Davidson: [00:21:09] And forced to like regulated to do that. It's not. And that's why and I say it I, it frustrates me that uh Health Canada and Canada has damaged the industry as much as it has because and not damaged, not allowed it to grow by overreaching on so much of the regulation.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:21:28] Yeah. Fully. Okay. So, you know, in that kind of area within the security of cannabis and stuff like that, you know, it leads into kind of other areas, I'm sure, that probably lend to other areas within security that it kind of expanded within your frame too.
Barry Davidson: [00:21:48] Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of overlap in the foundation of, of any kind of security, whether it's physical security, personal security, the, the best security operatives or people that have touched a lot of different kinds of industries. I know that I did some VIP protection training and with training in it, and one of the things we tried to do was move people away from just learning the traditional, you know, formations, driving standards, that kind of stuff. And look at environmental criminology and look at I would often take a group through sort of a mild interviewing or EQ type testing to make sure that they understood that they're not just they're not a doorman. They need to actually be reading the crowd, and they need to be assessing risk so that you get ahead of whatever might be happening. And my team, I was very proud of my team. We many times were able to defuze situations in a crowd or at least identify a situation and quietly and discreetly deal with it. So it didn't affect me. And again, the goal is that your principal is able to operate, do whatever they're there for and get out of there without it interfering with, causing any grief and causing grief includes causing stress. So if your principal starts getting nervous, then that's good, especially if they're doing a speaking gig or something that's going to have a direct impact on them.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:23:15] Yeah. And as you were kind of talking, I was thinking back to one of the training that I got when I was in the political realm, and it was another kind of person who had been working in the minister's regional office. And he taught me this technique that he referred to as the RCMP block or the block. And I find myself every once in a while kind of noticing that or seeing those kinds of moments. And I always think of those extra fun techniques of like, okay, you just do this or you do that, and suddenly things change.
Barry Davidson: [00:23:47] I mean, you can with a well-trained team that's in tune with each other. We would often joke that we're all on radio, but even in some of our hotter environments, there was very little radio chatter because we just knew where we needed to be, and we would see something and a team would know how we're reacting and you would move through it.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:24:07] Yeah. And there's so many different techniques like, there was another point in time where other people were trained in other political situations, and someone was like, does anyone remember how to do the flying V or does it? Yeah, there was a fun little techniques that I know.
Barry Davidson: [00:24:23] And speaking to the political side, when I was in the legislature for a few years, my chief of staff at the time, we had a number of issues going on, not dissimilar to now with how hot many of the ministries are. And of course, we don't have the manpower. Alberta doesn't have the manpower to put a sheriff or a team on each minister. Yeah, and arguably they don't all need it. But I would suggest there's a number that at least need live tracking. And so he had decided at the time, because of how I was managing our office, that he wanted me to train the chiefs of staff in some of these techniques and assessments and such. We never brought that to fruition beyond a first meeting with all of the Chiefs. But it was. I actually thought that would have been one of the best tools for a chief of staff or a senior ministerial staffer to have, even just so they can assess it properly and know when to call that kind of support in.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:25:23] Fully, yeah.
Barry Davidson: [00:25:25] And it just comes down to understanding people and understanding what you're looking for. Like don't be so zoned in, whether it's to your phone or to the crisis that's in front of you, which is that that's what that position tends to do. But recognize that you're the one that needs to be able to to drive that moment, if your boss is having a problem.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:25:43] Yeah. And there are those little moments, too, where suddenly it goes from a normal day to suddenly security situations, whether that's, you know, in political environments, whether that's in like at the legislature, whether it's or Parliament or whatever, or even, you know, in a constituency office.
Barry Davidson: [00:26:04] That's right. Oh, very much. Yeah. Even more there now.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:26:07] Yeah.
Barry Davidson: [00:26:08] I mean, I'm not thinking apples to apples, but I'm thinking of the same chief of staff. One of the things we had put together, and this was his strategy, was that if we were doing a town hall or a public forum with questions. We would make sure it was he, myself, or at least 1 or 2 other senior staffers from the minister's office, so that if we had somebody that was potentially a problem at a microphone, one of us would go over identify ourselves as who we are and say, let's go talk. I can get this in front of the minister and be able to, with credibility, say, you know, I work beside the minister, so you're not getting you're not getting an intern somewhere, you're not getting brushed off. We're going to take you seriously. And nine times out of ten, that worked well. The other piece to that, because I manage security for a number of political conventions, I'm a bit of an anomaly in that I've done that over three different parties.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:27:04] Which I love to see, actually. Yeah. Multi-partizan.
Barry Davidson: [00:27:08] Well and, and, and I'll admit that when it comes to that type of work to me, I don't care which party it is as long.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:27:14] As people are safe.
Barry Davidson: [00:27:15] Yeah. So I would train the volunteers. Because you always have volunteers. There are three levels and often say security is like peeling an onion. Um, your first level is your volunteer. If you have somebody at a microphone that's causing problems, the volunteer will go up and do your time's up or whatever that looks like. And if that doesn't quite work at that point, your security team usually semi discreet if you will, would move in so that they're obvious to the speaker. And that is a measuring tool as to where this is going to go. Right. And just you use the space. You use the people. And most people, even if they're very emotional, you just want to be heard. So you know that that's the other piece. Let them be heard. We have a number of politicians, and in the political realm, a lot of people that think that any kind of comment is a bad comment, whereas really, okay, you might not like what you hear, but let them get it off their chest and then you can move that away.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:28:19] That was one of the biggest things that I learned, kind of over the span of the last six months, was until you feel heard, you're not going to hear what I have to say.
Barry Davidson: [00:28:29] That's right.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:28:30] And so I've always been trying to make sure that when I'm having a conversation with someone that I'm hearing what their issues are until they feel heard, I won't speak.
Barry Davidson: [00:28:41] Yeah. No. That's absolutely I know when I used to teach interviewing, I would often frame it around every contact, whether it's with an impaired person on the street or a domestic violence offender or anything like that. Every contact is a relationship. And if you put that kind of strength or power behind it, then you can also take the next step of I. I can usually define how this relationship is going to play out. It's going to be good or it's going to be bad. Yes. But if you frame it as a relationship rather than being task orientated, I've got to get you out of here. Then you're never going to listen to the story. You don't know why somebody has ended up on the sidewalk wherever they're at. I mean, sometimes it can be obvious, but not always.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:29:31] And everyone's got a different story as to why they're in that moment.
Barry Davidson: [00:29:25] Yeah, I learned that very strongly when I did a lot of volunteer work around homelessness with the Homeless Foundation, that you start actually listening and trying to find out and hearing the stories of how people got to where they're at.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:29:47] Yeah. Fully. Well, and, you know, that kind of leads into kind of where you are now. So you've kind of moved from Calgary, you've kind of moved a few different places, and now you're in Ladysmith. Yeah. And you're also with the volunteer fire department. And you know, that kind of leads, like everything built onto each other, whether it's relationships, whether it's knowing, using different techniques, stuff like that. Everything builds onto each other. Yeah, and so are you. How are you finding that kind of transition?
Barry Davidson: [00:30:19] Oh, I love it. I often joke that I'm the oldest recruit they've ever had. And I still say they're trying to kill me every time we have a training session. And I'm probably the only person in the hall. Firefighters live and breathe for the call, and I would certainly say I do as well, although I do have enough gray hair and I've been front line service for long enough. My first choice isn't to run into the building. I'll support the young guys who can do that. Yeah. Where I have found a bit of a passion area is on the first responder side. Oh, and, uh, the majority of our calls are medical calls, and perhaps it's a capability thing, but, I mean, I know I can handle that well, and it's kind of neat. And that's growth for me. The other thing in all of my law enforcement brethren will be sending me nasty texts if they hear this. In hindsight, I would have joined the fire department, but I just never, ever thought of it. Because at the end of the day, including the police department, when they can't solve it, you call fire. And so the challenges are immense and incredibly challenging, but amazingly, amazingly fulfilling when you solve them because there is nobody after you. Like, we either solved it, right, or we solved it like you don't have a.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:31:39] Yeah, well, and there's so much like logistics and stuff like that that is involved in just going to a scene into it, like into one of the kind of a call to.
Barry Davidson: [00:31:52] Yeah, it was a learning for me that I'm embarrassed to say is that when I was looking for some way to engage in community and volunteer in Ladysmith, and I saw they were looking and I honestly thought in my tiny little brain that I can give some time, you know, I can throw a hose. I'm sure I can figure out how to deal with some of this stuff. How tough can this be? I didn't realize that volunteer firefighters across Canada have to train to a 1001 standard. And in fact, many of the firefighters in our hall are full service firefighters. That's the same level as a professional career firefighter. So we're doing all of the same tests. We do Justice Institute courses. I think there were 38 chapters that we had to study and get through and do practicals, and we still have to recertify every year. Even for wildland firefighting, you. You cannot be deployed unless you've done a wildland firefighting course. The medical side is the same thing. Like we recertify constantly and we are constantly training. So the amount of time and effort that goes into just being able to get on the truck is immense.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:33:02] Oh, fully.
Barry Davidson: [00:33:03] I never didn't occur to me at all. I'm just thinking, oh there's a nice fire truck. I can jump on there and help out.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:33:10] Yeah. And you also have to be kind of aware of that situation of what you know and what's going on around you.
Barry Davidson: [00:33:17] Awareness is critical. Yeah. And I mean, I don't know what other fire departments are like, but certainly in our department, it's absolutely the mantra that, you know, how you're solving it within lines is going to be different every time, or it'll be creative because it's never the same twice.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:33:34] No. And every situation is a little bit different. And also too, you have to be aware of what's happening within your area, but maybe you know, somewhere else cutting nearby might be happening. And you have to kind of be not only the first call around your area, but maybe somewhere else too.
Barry Davidson: [00:33:53] Absolutely. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's fun.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:33:57] Yeah. It would add that extra piece to. So, yeah. So if you were kind of looking at your career and you were giving advice to someone kind of going into the industry or into one of the many industries or areas and stuff like that too. Is there any kind of piece of advice that you would give to someone?
Barry Davidson: [00:34:19] I guess there'd be a couple. One is to make sure that you commit to yourself to constantly learn. Just be a lifelong learner. Listen more than you talk. I know that gets tiring, but that's very true. And don't be afraid to try things. And when you pick a path, if you decide to be a career security professional, and thankfully nowadays that can be a security path, it didn't used to be. Or whether you're going into law enforcement or fire, or any kind of first responder or frontline response, recognize that learning, even if you don't do what the other services do, but learning and understanding what the the service beside you is doing will go a long ways to you being effective and being valuable.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:35:04] Completely. And, you know, when I look kind of at kind of our conversation, our discussions over the years and stuff like that, one of the things I've really appreciated is, is that breadth of different types of knowledge and understanding, and I really appreciated that too.
Barry Davidson: [00:35:23] Well thank you. I kind of feel like I'm probably a cheerful episode. I'm an expert at nothing, but I can sure talk about a lot of things.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:35:32] But you are an expert in a whole bunch of different areas, and that's the thing that makes it really good too. And it makes areas that are unseen, uh, safer. And it makes everything kind of flow in a different way that we wouldn't have seen otherwise, too.
Barry Davidson: [00:35:50] Thank you for that.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:35:51] I appreciate that, and I thank you. I'm so glad that we are. I've been looking forward to this interview for a really long time. Pretty much since we had that one conversation. I've been waiting for this moment, and so I'm really glad that we were able to have it today too..
Barry Davidson: [00:36:04] So thank you most people.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:36:06] And in person?
Barry Davidson: [00:36:07] Yes. Makes it better. Yeah. Most people aren't gutsy enough to put a microphone in front of me. So I'm impressed that you are willing to do that.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:36:13] Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. So thank you so much.
Barry Davidson: [00:36:15] Thank you.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:36:19] Thank you for listening to this Zebras to Apples podcast episode. I hope you enjoyed the showcase of the fun and fascinating stories of supply chain logistics. If you liked this episode, I would love it if you could give it a rating and review. For more information about this topic, you can go to zebrastoapples.com, or follow Zebras to Apples on the social media platform of your choosing, whether that's Instagram, Facebook, Twitter X Bluesky, or LinkedIn. You can support the show on Patreon. Also, check out the show notes below. Please join me again for another episode of Zebra Apples. Have a wonderful day!