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Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: [00:00:00] So, so it has been shown that for the most part, creativity is associated with positive emotion, and the causality of that is still sort of somewhat to be determined, but there's definitely a correlation there.
Podcast Host: The world is changing. For most human beings, change is uncomfortable and challenging to address. Whether you are a startup working on agile processes or a mature organization, navigating change with an existing complex structures, the mindset and skills to adapt has never been more vital. The team from the strategy table want to help the wider world understand the need and approach to meaningful and impactful change management, helping organizations navigate disruption and make change accessible to everyone.
This [00:01:00] is accessible disruption.
Anthony Vade: Welcome to Accessible Disruption where we talk about creative change management, how we can unlock the potential for innovative thought and why change is just so challenging for so many people. Really excited to get into the content today. We have a great guest joining us. Has done a lot of work with the co-founders of Strategy Table, but before we do, I'm gonna make the call I make every week.
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There's additional resources, uh, and by becoming a member. Of the [00:02:00] strategy table community and getting your seat at the table. You can get access to extended versions of podcasts, additional resources, and of course some ad-free listening. Okay, with those formalities out of the way, it's time to introduce our guest.
Dr. Molly Hollinger is the Assistant Professor of Creativity and Change Leadership at SUNY Buffalo State. She received her PhD in educational psychology with an emphasis on giftedness creativity and talent development from the University of Connecticut. And her masters in Science in Creative Studies from the Center of Applied Imagination at SUNY Buffalo State.
She also worked as a consultant for the Creativity and Emotions Lab at the Yale Center of Emotional Intelligence. Her research and teaching focuses on the positive outcomes of creativity, such as engagement, meaning, and positive emotions. I am gonna do my customary thing here and I'm gonna start us off by asking Ryan, who is Dr.
Hollinger to you?
Rya Hill: Well, so Dr. Hollinger was one of the late comers to [00:03:00] my time at the program and it was a breath of fresh air because I think when she came in she had a lot of good insights on like neurodivergency and we had some good email traffic on exploring like some correlations or how we measure correlations in things like a DHD and uh, autism spectrum and the propensity to lean into.
More creative traits or tendencies and how to like build careers out of that. So I just thought that was really great that someone was, you know, even having those conversations, uh, at that time. And then I believe Tira will have even better stories though, 'cause I think if I, if memory serves, uh, she was also Tahira's advisor on her culminating project at the end.
But that's, that's how I know, uh, Dr. Hollinger. And I was really excited when she agreed to come on the podcast 'cause it's been a couple years, so I just wanted to catch up. Actually, that'd be my first question. Doc, what are you working on today?
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: Hi. Thanks for having me, first of all, and, uh, it has been a while since we've chatted, so it's great to, to see you again and you and Tira.
Um, I, I think the thing that [00:04:00] I am most excited about right now. With my, actually my doctoral advisor, James Kaufman, we're working on editing a Cambridge Handbook of Creativity and Wellbeing. I think this was probably just formulating, uh, when, when you, uh, graduated from the program, Ryan, um. That shows you how long it it takes to actually get something, um, like this in motion.
So, you know, we were just talking about how we have, oh, several handbooks, but we thought that this was missing. Um, and that was sort of surprising to both of us, that no one had done a handbook of creativity and wellbeing so far. So that is. Currently the authors are hopefully busy writing away their chapters.
Um, uh, so it's impressed at the moment. We have some really great contributors, mark Ronco, Ronnie Re, Paulman, Bob Sternberg. [00:05:00] And the way that we conceptualized it is first of all looking at sort of like the basics, like how do you assess creativity and wellbeing? What's the history of the research? And then we went into, I guess what, what sort of sets.
This handbook apart from other handbooks, like Cambridge Handbook of Creativity and Emotions is it's more, um, focused on like positive psychology. So there's a whole section on character strengths and how those relate to creativity and then different contexts, so like in the workplace with, um, aging populations.
So that's, that's my main focus right now or what I'm, I'm really excited to see, uh, come to life in the next year or two.
Rya Hill: That sounds awesome. And actually that was gonna be my, my next question was, is this. Where we bring it in. Robert Sternberg, as I know he and, and Dr. Kaufman have worked in in the past on the, the Cambridge Handbook of Creativity and in the other variations of that.
So that's, it's really exciting to see how small the, the community gets when you just dive in. And I cited both those gentlemen extensively during my time in the program. So I [00:06:00] feel like I know a little bit. About them now, just through knowing you. Um, so talking about the change managed side, that's one of the areas that we focus on most is, is, uh, accessible disruption.
Uh, how do we absorb inconveniences or challenges and turn them into opportunities to grow either individually or professionally or organizationally. So with the focus on wellbeing, what would be your take on how to deal with disruption from the lens of what. You're focusing on within the, the Handbook on Creativity and Wellbeing.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for sort of framing that question from my background, which as you said is, is creativity and wellbeing because you do have, like, you know, the organizational stuff, which is really fantastic and granted all this. Uh, is not unrelated, right? Like the same principles you have in the workforce are, are true of like personal life.
But that being said, there are techniques from [00:07:00] mental health and clinical psychology that I think are less spoken about when you talk about adapting and creative change that. I, as I said, I think are just as well relevant in or helpful or useful in, in personal life as as professional life. So for example, a big one is cognitive reappraisal and one course that I teach, it's called Current Issues and Creative Studies.
And Ryan, you, I'm sure are familiar with this. So for that course we talk about like the current topics. Research and for other areas. I, I like to bring in other scholars from the field. It's sort of like a seminar course, but, but I do the lecture on creativity and wellbeing and with our students, they have a background in creative problem solving.
So when I talk about cognitive reappraisal, I always ask them like, is. Can you think of, of what this might remind you of and, and what cognitive reappraisal is like? Just to give you an example, let's say [00:08:00] you are like running late to a birthday party or something for your friend, and instead of thinking like, oh, they're gonna be so mad at me, or whatever, you think, oh yeah, I got out of talking to my word colleagues.
20 minutes or something like that. So how do you reframe it? Um, and, uh, in the creative problem solving process, Ryan or Anthony, can you think of like a tool that we use?
Rya Hill: The first thing that came to mind for me was how I often have to explain going through PPCO pluses, potential concerns and overcoming concerns.
In the develop phase, when we get to concerns, everyone wants to dump right in on all of the barriers that to success that we can see. And it can really deflate the energy of the room if they. Uh, don't wait for the full instruction. And they dive in like, well, we can't afford this and people are gonna be resistant to this, and we can't, we don't have buy-in across here.
Instead of taking the time to reframe it as a question with a positive inflection mean, you know, so the positive inflection being important because again, if you, number one phrase is a question, you invite [00:09:00] ideas, but if it's a positive inflection, you're not focusing on the negative aspects of it, but you're focusing on the the positive steps you need to take.
So instead of saying, how do we. Uh, pay for this. We can say something along the lines of how do we. Get creative with our budgeting to give ourselves more wiggle room. And you're just, it's the same concept, but we're finding that reframe. That's so that's the one that I think comes to mind first, but probably, 'cause we just went through a development workshop just yesterday.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah. So it's that like turn of phrase that how might we, what might be all the ways. And so we, we call that, yeah, phrasing challenges as, as questions, which is part of the larger tool of, um, PPCO. Um, so, so yeah, that's, um, I think a, a good one that's like a very concrete way to, I think about, you know, how do you adapt the frame of mind that you take when you are facing challenges.
I, you know. So there's these like concrete tools, but then those are underlying this sort of larger [00:10:00] mindset that we try to teach and adopt. And granted that does not come easily. So, um, that's why we have a master of full masters of science and creativity. 'cause we realize that making real changes and mindsets and behaviors takes time and often does not just come with one workshop.
Anthony Vade: I'd like to perhaps bring us back to. Uh, where you mentioned emotions being evolved and on this topic of disruptive creative change management, what's the relationship with emotions and what have you found in your research?
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: This is timely. 'cause I was actually just doing some writing on that this morning.
This is sort of an aside, but there's an organization through the American Psychological Association called Division 10, which is creativity, aesthetics, and the arts. And so that's sort of where like the creativity researchers live is within that division. Um, and they're actually coming out with their own handbook in [00:11:00] the next couple years.
Anyways, I was. Working on this chapter for that handbook, um, this morning, which is on the, the positive benefits of creativity for the individual, one of which is positive emotion. And so it has been shown that for the most part, creativity is associated with positive emotion and the. Causality of that is still sort of somewhat to be determined, but there's definitely a correlation there.
And so to go back to brainstorming, which you love Anthony, um, to brainstorming typically goes better when you're in a positive mood, uh, right, because you're feeling like playful and joyful and you know, willing to put ideas out there. But the other thing is that within maybe the past, like. 10 years or so.
We've come a long way in terms of what we know about creativity and emotions in general. So initially it was just like, okay, creativity, positive emotions go hand in hand. [00:12:00] But now we know a bit more in terms of, it also has something to do with like the activation of emotions. So when you have emotions that are like.
Happiness, joy, very intense or extreme, but then it can also be in the opposite direction, like anger, frustration, and so it seems like the. A level of activation is actually just as important as the positivity or pleasantness of the emotion. So, so basically to, if you're sort of trying to summarize it, um, which is difficult, positive, high activation emotions tend to be, you know, the most correlated, positive, lower activation emotions can also be positively correlated, but not quite as strongly.
And then when you. Get into a whole nother consideration, which is which stage of the creative [00:13:00] process you're in. That changes things. So. If you want to do something like revisions, for example, you are not gonna be critical of your writing if we just got a big promotion or, or something like that. So you can actually think about what mood you're in and, and sort of match that to the task at hand or the stage of the creative process that you're in.
And that's much more. Useful. And then I guess the question comes up, okay, so let's say on the way to work, I hit a traffic jam and I'm late and I get to work and first thing off the bat is a brainstorming session and I'm in a terrible mood. Um, you wanna reflect on that and think, okay, there's nothing I can.
Do a about having, uh, this brainstorming session at this time of day, but how can I sort of shift my mood, listen to some good music, talk [00:14:00] to a coworker who you consider a friend to shift your mood into the, the task that, that you're facing at the time when you have a little bit more flexibility like.
Let's say you're a morning person who's super cheery in the morning, you know, do your, do that sort of work then, um, and then let's say you hit a slump in the afternoon. Do your schedule, your meetings in the afternoon. Um, so I would say, you know, it, emotions depend on, on the context, on the stage of the creative process.
And then I think the most useful thing is just, you know. Being mindful about what are you doing at the time and how can I sort of structure my day around how I'm feeling.
Anthony Vade: That resonates with me, particularly as an openly neurodiverse person living with a DHD. My creativity sweet spot tends to be in the morning because I burn so hot in the morning.
By the time the afternoon comes around, I'm, I've kind of worn myself out a, a little bit. Uh, are there other [00:15:00] neurodiverse trends that sort of, and that correlate in, in such a way that you've come across or the study has.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: So in terms of like a DHD and creativity there is I, most of the research focuses on, um.
Uh, like divergent thinking and that there is a correlation there 'cause you're sort of making these random associations and, um, I, I think the biggest takeaway from Neurodivergence and creativity is. Overlaps with the gifted education work on like twice exceptionalism. So people who have both like, uh, neurodivergence but are also really high performing or really creative.
And so looking at, at the strengths of a neurodivergent trait. Um, and Ryan actually, I mean, you might be able to. Speak to this. I, I want to add more than I, um, yeah. Well
Rya Hill: I thought, I mean, you kind of nailed it. [00:16:00] I felt like, uh, one of the things when people ask me about my time at Buffalo State, uh, in the creativity program, like how to describe it, I often default to the, the word, it was healing for me because I think, uh, we go through life learning for years and years and years, how to mask, how to blend, how to, how to like throttle everything back so we don't make other people uncomfortable with our energy level or our.
You know, weirdness or what have you. And then I get into this program where they're sitting there trying to teach people what diversion thinking is and how to tap into it. And all of a sudden I felt like I could, it was a breath of fresh air. I could fly, you know, I could lean into a part of my brain that is wired that way automatically.
And I didn't have to try to suppress it. It just, you know, it really, it was just a totally different, uh, world, I think at that time. And it just, it was very. Good for me to see that there are places that you can be, you can lean into the [00:17:00] neurodivergency, all these things that we're predisposed to do, acceptance of risk, you know, a lot of stuff that can get neurodivergent people in trouble.
There's why there's so many correlated studies between DHD and like prison time and all these other things. But they're also the same traits that make you, uh, more successful in, uh, creative endeavors. Um, but I wanted to ask Ashley, 'cause you mentioned something about the positivity of the emotion. Mm.
Tahira Endean: But
Rya Hill: a couple years ago during the, the creativity exchange, there was a big focus at the time on, on trauma-informed care and then creativity through trauma.
Podcast Host: Mm. Mm-hmm. And I
Rya Hill: was wondering, and maybe this is too much of a too broad of a connection, maybe I'm off track, but not to associate a disruption to someone's business or their company as trauma, but a very inconvenient disruption that could otherwise rock your world.
Mm-hmm. Could you. Effectively approach it the same way that you approach using creativity to help acknowledge and address trauma, like on a more personal level and, and maybe more stream context, but you know, looking at it as [00:18:00] a way to heal and move forward as an organization through the disruption.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. So I, you're probably referring to Marie Gerard who is just a really fantastic researcher and she's done a lot of work on what's called post-traumatic Growth. And granted, she's, so, this has been her area of focus for at least. I would say 10, 15 years. And so I think in some recent like longitudinal studies, the findings have been less clear in, in terms of like the relationship between post-traumatic growth and, and creativity.
But what we do see, certainly when people experience. Trauma or adverse events and just the more, I guess, general post-traumatic growth research is that change or growth or adaptation? It results. Trauma or adversity can be sort of a catalyst, I guess, for change. And [00:19:00] granted, we probably. Don't really want to invite trauma or adversity.
But on the other hand, it does cause change whether we want it or not. Um, and there are different ways that we can react to that change. So creativity can be helpful in terms of the things that are so associated with creativity, like adaptation, being able to think of new possibilities for the future. Um, spiritual growth, growth in relationships, right, because, 'cause creativity and social connections are very much related.
I would say that that trauma and adversity can drive creativity, can drive change, um, and also can just sort of drive open-mindedness, which is. Something that's very much so related to creativity and, and that can be hard because it can be a real shift in your values and how you view the world. It might even [00:20:00] change the people who you have relationships with, right?
Like you think of, I think of my students who go off to college and, you know, can't really relate to their family anymore because they're in this new environment, have a new. Worldview and, and that can be really difficult.
Anthony Vade: Probably a good time for us to take a quick break. Uh, so we'll come back and we'll hear some questions from Tira 'cause we haven't heard from you yet, Tira, it's crazy.
Uh, but of course if you wanna listen to this ad free. Head on over to strategy table.co and sign up for your seat at the table. You'll hear extended podcasts ad free listening, and get access to a whole suite of different resources that can help you navigate creative change management and really unlock the creativity within your team.
So head on over to strategy table.co right now to check out those resources and we'll be back after the short break.[00:21:00]
Tahira Endean: So the, I think just that there is that continued link between creativity and wellbeing and it's changed so much. Even I think in the last year when I'm thinking about the work that we're doing and the things even that we're showing up with, everyone was talking about mental health. In a much more specific personal sense, and now everyone is just talking about global uncertainty and how that's affecting individuals.
So how can we, how can we help people in this time, you know, with what we know, um, collectively about creativity and wellbeing and ways to help people with resilience at this time.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: Yeah, that's like the million dollar question, right? Existential. I know. Yeah. So I will say I am not a, you know, mental health specialist, and I do, uh, am a big [00:22:00] proponent of, um, counseling and therapy and, and psychology.
So I think, I think just, I, I love, love, love creativity, but I would say that is one pathway to, um, mental health and wellbeing. And so, you know, at the same time I think it's, it's good to, to keep in mind the other paths. Said are helpful. Um, you know, for some people that's spirituality or for some people.
That's, um, you know, family. Um, so, so I think that's just one thing to keep in mind, that in the midst of hardship and adversity, um, I think social connection is what I would say is the most important thing that I've seen come out of the general mental. Research granted that is also can be very much tied to creativity.
So I know Ryan and Hir, you found a family with your peers in the Creativity and Change leadership [00:23:00] program and I know others who have gone through the programs, they've had deaths in their family or while they've been going through or health issues or things like that, and they really reflected on, do I have.
The capacity to keep going with this program. And they actually found that it was very much enriching and fulfilling and rather than draining them, it, it really energized them and invigorated them and helped them get through those times. So part of that I think was the social connection. And then part of that is having something that excites you and motivates you and gives you a sense of purpose and meaning.
Tahira Endean: That applies to so many things that we do, doesn't it? Some of the space. That we spent a lot of time in is in events. And so it's that social connection is a huge part of that as well as where you work. Are you going into an office? Are you working solo? What are your abilities to connect people? And I think it's also really important, um, you know, that differentiation of creativity as a science, [00:24:00] it is impacting our brain as well as if we're doing, uh, let's call it a traditional creative activity.
So like Anthony, we know paints. And is an incredible painter, actually. So sometimes there's that mind body connection as well. I think that can help people.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: So For sure, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. The physical wellbeing, definitely. Um, I'll just give I guess a, a personal example, um, in terms of going through change.
My husband got a job at the University of Oregon, and that's far away
Tahira Endean: from Buffalo.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: So for context, yes, I, I, we were in Buffalo. Um, so, so almost as far, you know, across the country as you can get, pretty much, this was really a dream job for him. So instead of going back to the whole reframing thing, instead of thinking of like, oh, this is like terrible, right?
Which, uh, you know, [00:25:00] sometimes like when we would share this with people, like there'd be this slug of horror on their faces, you know, and I'm like, you know, this. Supposed to be good news and, um, and, uh, but it, you know, we talked to actually a lot of people in like the, the creativity community here, the other faculty who I'm close with, and alumni and, and they were so great just in terms of they really.
It, I guess embodied like the, what we talk about all the time is like seeing it as a positive, reframing it and, uh, so for example, there, there's a couple, um, Laura Switalski and Tim Switalski and, and they actually met at the Creative Problem Solving Institute and Laura is Italian. Tim is from Buffalo.
And so they had a long distance relationship for a while and so, you know, they told us about how they navigated it and. They were seeing it as sort of a, a way to, Tim had really not done a lot of traveling before that, [00:26:00] so, you know, he became sort of an international citizen and, and there were just a lot of like positive things that, that come out of it.
So yeah, it's been wonderful to explore the Pacific Northwest, which is. Somewhere I've never seen before. And, um, not on one so far it's been more of an adventure. And so I guess a personal example of like, how do you, how people react differently to situations.
Tahira Endean: That's a really, it's
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: a great example
Tahira Endean: of like a really big change, right?
So, and how do you decide how we're gonna navigate this particular phase of our life going forward? And you're right, I think sometimes it's really easy to go into a panic mode if this will never work. Which applies to so many things in life. So when we're working with people who are, and I think it's important, one of the things that we always, you know, say, we always say that we're thinking about, but that I don't think we're necessarily all that good at in organizations is to say, well, we're gonna be empathetic to what people are going through in their life and take care [00:27:00] of them.
And at the end of the day, it's a job. So there's a certain point where an organization can say, yes, we're gonna support you, but then there's also a point where you have to step up and say, this is my job, and how am I gonna do my job in this new situation? And there's this big space of dissonance in between those two things.
And I think we're seeing that in so many organizations where there's still navigating. How much time do people spend in an office and what are the benefits of people being in an office and collectively working together and all of those opportunities versus the work at homes and then the InBetween hybrid models, which probably many, many people do now.
So. Are some of the tips that you're finding as you navigate this new digital nomad? Sometimes here, sometimes their inspiring learners lifestyle.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: I
Tahira Endean: will
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: say for my current situation with my husband, it's been really wonderful to have that flexibility [00:28:00] because a lot of our courses are virtual, so that allows me, yeah, to travel, which is great.
And I'll also say that in the context of teaching, it has. Both its advantages and its disadvantages, which I'm sure, uh, and Ryan in terms of like your experience because you both did the creativity and change leadership distance program, that there still can be this real connection online and I think that's something that's fostered.
Through being very deliberate in the way that you run online classes or, or facilitations for that matter. But it is amazing how these really strong bonds can form between people who have never been in the same room together. I think part of that with our program is that you are helping one another on these meaningful goals and.
[00:29:00] Collaborating on seeing each other's success and giving feedback, and that's something that expedites these close relationships and really sets the foundation for lifelong collaborations With you all, you started a business together, right? How would you have built that trust without being part of that learning process and knowing that you work well together?
So. I think we've come a long way in terms of our ability to use technology to teach. There are like little practical things that I love about teaching online. Like you can see everyone's names, you can put people in breakout rooms, right? And I, I think we don't wanna underestimate how powerful those little things are.
But on the other hand, you know, I also. See the value in coming together in person too. So for example, we just had the Creative Problem Solving Institute, which is hosted by the [00:30:00] Creative Education Foundation, uh, in Buffalo and a, and a lot of our students came to that and they just said how wonderful it was to, you know, room.
One of their colleagues or cohort members. And so I do think there is still some value in, in being together in person. And finally, I'll say it also depends on the individual. Like some people are more than happy to be at home, be virtual 24 7. Um, and then some people really crave, um, that in-person connection.
So I, I think. You know, there's not a, a one size fits all answer to that question.
Anthony Vade: Maybe I'll segue us into just digging a bit deeper into this idea of creativity and collaboration. And with the previous framing, you are firmly embedded in the academic world. I'd be curious what research has shown around the corporate world, this back to work side of things, uh, but really around.
How are [00:31:00] we equipped and how well are organizations equipped for allowing collaboration with that complexity of modality in person versus virtual? And, and what could they do? What's your opinion? Are they, you know, are they struggling right now? Are they doing okay? Um, and how could they make sure that everybody can thrive when they're addressing creativity from that corporate lens?
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: My gut tells me that the principles of what makes successful collaboration, uh, in person is the same as what makes. Successful virtual collaboration. So, uh, like, you know, like we were talking about working towards meaningful goals, things like psychological safety, things like, uh, focusing on what is the problem.
So within organizations within the creative problem solving process, it. Seems that the front end of the process, so [00:32:00] getting clear on what problem you're trying to solve, having a clear shared vision or shared understanding of the problem is really the most crucial thing, which makes sense, right? Because if you start in the wrong place, you're going to keep going in the wrong direction.
So I would say the principles that we know that are crucial to innovation and creativity. Or are pretty universal in terms of. Their virtual versus in-person application.
Anthony Vade: I love that you focused on understanding the problem at its core and that I've been through many workshop sessions with many different organizations and some find that experience of talking about their challenges, very, very threatening almost that they feel very vulnerable in that, uh, leadership.
You know, that starts to get a bit riled up that it's a direct criticism of their leadership. Uh, but I, I agree with you totally. That to the point, uh, that we need to get to grips with what that [00:33:00] challenge really is and, and have the bravery to have difficult conversations and make those conversations accessible to everybody.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: And well, and that's when you bring in, uh, people like the three of you to help facilitate those conversations because. Sometimes they're not possible without bringing in someone external.
Anthony Vade: Yeah. Love that. Thank you. Thank you for that little, uh, plug as well. We enjoy that. Um, are, are there fun ways that you, have you come across anything that makes difficult conversations fun?
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: Oh, man. Um, and you think about organizations having retreats, right? That's all very intentional. And again, those, those little things can seem superficial, but just. Something like changing the environment can make all the difference in the world. And, and like you said, making it, um, fun. So like, we're, this isn't, I guess, like.
Contentious the conversation necessarily, but we're hoping to launch [00:34:00] a doctorate of professional studies, uh, in the next year. And so there's a lot of planning that has to. Yeah. Woo-hoo. Um, there's a lot of planning that has to go into this and, you know, it's daunting and overwhelming and, you know, there are topics that we have to talk out, um, because this is, you know, we're.
Developing the foundation of the program. And so there are some big decisions that have to be made and, and so we are being very intentional about carving out some. Time and space and making it more fun and having good food and, and it, it does make a difference.
Anthony Vade: I love that you mentioned food. 'cause I think there's something about gathering around food and the communal aspect that's deeply ingrained in our DNA from, you know, all of our evolution over time.
We were gathering around a fireplace and talking about stuff more often than we were sitting around a boardroom table, right?
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: Yeah.
Anthony Vade: And I say the boardroom table can be the wall [00:35:00] sometimes between the individuals when you separate them across the table. Um, and I like to encourage people to stand on the boardroom table as something different rather than, uh, sitting around it different spaces.
Uh, Ryan, uh, we're going to look to wrap this thing up. Is there any closing thoughts and questions from you at this, at this point, given all that we've heard and all this amazing insight that, uh, Dr. Holling has provided already?
Rya Hill: Uh, I won't ask you more questions because I have a million of 'em and I know we'll go down all these rabbit holes.
So I think we do, do need to look at considering having you back after you guys come to the end of the, the book and it's ready to launch us to talk more about the content. 'cause I think that's gonna be great. But I think you've, you've challenged me to start thinking about how do I connect the idea of resilience and wellbeing more deliberately into that.
Framing and communicating with our clients, turning the disruption or the obstacle into a positive frame, and using the creative [00:36:00] process to not only reframe it, but then to take. Take ownership, take power over it so you're no longer feeling helpless.
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: That's great. I'm glad you found something to take away,
Anthony Vade: hir.
Any, any closing thoughts or additional questions from you at this point?
Tahira Endean: I think that it is really important that we understand that creativity, as we learned in our incredible master's program is actually a science and that we can use science to benefit humankind and. Thank you for creating such a and being part of our journey.
Amen.
Anthony Vade: And we'd like to finish all of these with a, uh, with a call to action. Dr. Holland, what would you have as your call to action to our listeners? How can they take on some of these ideas that, that we've discussed, uh, and recognizing we've only scratched, uh, the surface on, on this topic, but what might be an actionable way that they can apply some of [00:37:00] this thinking to their own business place, to their workplace, or the communities that they serve?
Dr Molly Holinger Ph.D.: I will build off of what Tira was saying in terms of creativity being a science, and that's something I also feel very strongly about is having your practices be informed by the science, and I really am optimistic in the way that science has. Research has been going in the past 10 years or so in terms of, it's gotten to be, I think, much more rigorous, but then also I think people are becoming more aware that, um.
While it's important to be rigorous in your methods, et cetera, that science is updating and just people being more open in terms of we did this study and then we did a follow-up study and we found something different. And, and just being, seeing that not as a fault, but as a strength, um, in terms of being open about data and findings.
And so I [00:38:00] would say yeah, just having that open mindset about science and, um, appreciation for the science. As well.
Anthony Vade: I couldn't think of a better way to wrap this thing up than that. Uh, you, you touched on those key points, that creativity, especially organizationally as a practice, you need to keep revisiting and understanding not just the output from the, from those creative sessions, but how you got to that and how you collaborate in a creative way with each other, uh, within an organization.
Um, we. We certainly feel a passion for that too. We love bringing teams together to collaborate and, and, uh, we, my favorite part is curating what that collaboration looks like. So thank you so much for sharing those insights with us. We're definitely going to have you back for an episode to unpack that book a bit and certainly add it to our bookshelf.
Uh, if the listeners out there wanted to find out some more information, there'll be some links in the description below, and of course, you can head over to Strategy Table. Dot co. Uh, to [00:39:00] check out more resources and dive a little bit deeper into this topic, both with extended versions of this podcast, uh, and links to find out more.
Uh, with that, I would like to thank everybody for joining us today, Ryan Tahira. Dr. Hollinger, thank you so much for spending this time with us and we will be talking at you. On the next accessible disruption.
Podcast Host: Accessible disruption is written and spoken by Tahira and Dean Ryan Hill and Anthony Vade. All content is developed in collaboration with the team at Strategy Table Podcast production by experience design change. An association with the change lead network. Find more information@strategytable.co.