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Told by an Idiot's Artistic Director Paul Hunter in free-flowing conversation with friends and colleagues from the theatre industry, delving into what made them the people they are today.
PAUL: Hello and welcome to Regrets,
I've Had a Few.
I'm Paul Hunter, Artistic Director of Told
by an Idiot and this is a podcast where I
talk to friends and colleagues delving
into what made them
the person they are today.
Hello and welcome.
My guest this month is an actor
equally at home on stage and screen.
His theatre work,
includes the National Theatre's acclaimed
production of The Barbershop Chronicles
and the title role in Othello.
On screen he's probably most popularly
known for Koji in ITV's
hit sitcom Kate and Koji.
Oh, and he appeared in a Told by an Idiot
show in which 45 custard pies were thrown.
Welcome Okorie Chukwu.
OKORIE: Thank you so much for that introduction
and how lovely to see you and be here.
PAUL: It's great to have you
Okorie, it really is.
Thank you so much.
We will of course come
to the custard pies.
We can't do this chat without mentioning
those, now I've intrigued people. But I
always start these chats by going taking
people right back to the beginning because
I'm always intrigued by people's first
kind of connection,
particularly if they're an actor,
to performing or theatre.
Can you remember the first thing you saw
or what you were taken to or was
that at school or what was your
first engagement with theatre?
OKORIE: Well, my actual first engagement is more
through television, to be honest with you.
When I was young, watching
whether it be The Goonies or
Back to the Future,
these kind of shows that were coming
from America in the early nineties.
And I was very much
I think I was always taken by wanting
to go on those kind of journeys,
that these characters were. J
ust a whole array of films.
But there was no kind of,
none of my family were in theatre
or acting at all.
So maybe when I was about seven years old,
I was watching these kind of films
and then it wasn't up till when I started
at secondary school and my brother,
who's three years older than me,
started getting into acting and drama.
So when he was asked by the English
teacher to do the Nativity play that was
coming up, actually, what did we do?
No, it wasn't Nativity,
it was Scrooge actually so he then said
if you wanted to come along, come along.
And I went and I think it was like
a Monday evening after school.
I had no idea, really,
about what we were going to do.
But I do remember when we were doing
the rehearsals and the games and the lines
and such, I just suddenly felt this kind
of intrigue in the games and purpose.
And when I was young, I was quite quiet.
I didn't really express too much.
I kind of just listened a lot.
But I remember it was like one
of the first times I was speaking
and almost like in a weird way,
I had a reason to speak.
And it was such a strange experience.
And I really felt like, oh, yeah,
I get what I'm saying and I
know why I'm saying it.
And people are responding and then we're
playing games and we're being tested.
It was just like a whole kind of new
experience for me and it kind of just lit
me up a bit and getting on stage
and interacting with,
I was at a Catholic all boy school as well
and it was kind of like I was suddenly
engaging in a lesson with them.
Not just listening to the board,
but engaging with them and having
this kind of experience.
And it was funny, it was new for all of us
and I think from there I just found, like,
it was just a real
wonderful thing to do and it just
carried on from there, really.
PAUL: That's a really interesting way that you
talk about that, about having
feeling a reason to speak.
That's a really interesting
way of expressing it.
As you said, it may be quieter,
but that you felt I have a reason here.
That's quite a profound thing in a way.
OKORIE: Yeah, because a lot of my if I go back,
I went three primary schools and if I go
back, my memory is a bit jotted about all
of it, but equally, I remember
myself just observing a lot.
I was very much an observer.
I had loads of friends, like one to one,
interacting, but not really speaking
out in class and engaging as much.
But I did take a lot of it in and equally,
in secondary school was like that.
And this was my first year of secondary
school when I started drama.
And it was more like I would have these
lines and I'll be always ready to say them
with enthusiasm because I kind of just had
a grasp on it instead of my own mind where
I was maybe just observing
and not know how to express.
But these lines are almost giving
me an experience of expressing.
Yeah.
So the English teacher was really cool as
well, really enjoyed the way he was
running the sessions and it was
just really relaxed as well.
And so, yeah, when we done the play,
I just remember this satisfaction
of being part of something.
And obviously I think everyone well,
maybe I'm just speaking for myself,
get this sense of it's me,
I'm so important right now.
Weird thing that happens when people...
PAUL: I can relate to that Okorie I get
that feeling a lot when I'm on stage.
It's only when I go home, when I
realise I'm not very important at all.
OKORIE: Exactly.
PAUL: Which is good.
Which is good as it should be.
You mentioned those early films and a bit
like you, I didn't grow up in a theatre
household or go to the theatre very much,
so my introduction to acting was
very much via movies and things.
When you were at secondary school,
did you go on any trip to the theatre.
Were you taken to see anything?
OKORIE: No, it was something I was discovering.
I think my brother did, but well,
the theatre that I would have
seen was more the local theatre.
So because my brother was also involved
with the wonderful London Bubble Theatre
PAUL: yeah, brilliant
OKORIE: there in Rotherhithe.
And so I used to go
watch him do his shows.
So that was my kind of experience.
And once again,
it was just being surrounded by these
actors who were young and older than
me and so inspirational as well.
And I did look at what my brother was
doing, I was really excited about it
and then I kind of went on to join
the London Bubble Theatre so it was
much these kind of community shows.
So yeah, after doing the school play I
then went to do some classes
at the London Bubble.
That was great.
That was like the first time I was doing
extracurricular activity travelling down
to Rotherhithe doing these acting
classes, which is amazing.
And then after that I remember the young
Vic used to do
youth theatre over the summer.
I done some summer theatre
workshops with them as well.
PAUL: That's brilliant.
Sorry, Okorie, it's interesting when you
talk about London Bubble because actually
I was at the London Bubble space earlier
in the year running a workshop
just in that space.
I think they were extraordinary Bubble.
I know so many actors who did shows
and they had such skillful performers
who could play music, who could do comedy,
who could sing and they were
an extraordinary company.
OKORIE: Yeah, I think at that time it was
Jonathan Petheridge,
who ran it for quite a while
and Trish Lee, who used to run the classes
as well back in the early
nineties to about 2001.
I think they were there maybe a bit later,
but yeah, I just remember
those fantastic classes.
And I particularly remember
one which was just hilarious.
They set up an improvisation and it was
like, based on, say,
The Bill and you've got the suspect
in the room, and then they give you this
bag of objects and it's like,
now you have to tell the suspect why you
think they did the crime
and how they did it.
And you put your hand in the bag and then
the apple comes out and you're like,
okay, how am I going to do this?
And it was such intriguing way of that,
getting into theatre
and it was very funny.
And as a young person, you're just being
tested in a way to create these dramas.
PAUL: And also, I think that thing you know,
this when you worked with us, I mean,
improvisation is at the heart
of everything we do at Told by an Idiot.
And I think as a performer and a young
performer, when you get exposed
to improvisation and get a taste for it,
it's very exciting that you're not only
saying words that someone's giving you,
but you're being allowed
to make it up and be creative.
It's quite a liberating thing, I think.
OKORIE: Quite liberating.
Sometimes terrifying, I think,
PAUL: yes, of course,
OKORIE: entering into improvisation.
But my memories of when you kind of get
into it, it's such a rewarding experience.
And obviously working with you
on Never Try This At Home.
It was just an array.
It was such an open space,
the way that was run.
I think it was one of my first experience
outside of drama school and working
with obviously Told by an Idiot you guys
have wonderful work over
the years, the decades.
And it was just such a freeing experience
to be in a room with professionals,
such talented comedians.
And it was the first time,
surrounded by these, Niall Ashdowns,
amazing, talented
performers who were just -
PAUL: well, you were a brilliant part of that.
But you mentioned drama school,
so at what point did you start to think,
oh, maybe I could do this for a living.
Did you know about drama schools?
Or how did that happen?
OKORIE: I didn't.
But I remember when I was in year nine
at secondary school and when I was
choosing what I wanted to do for my last
two years, and I said to the head
of my year I wanted to do acting,
and he kind of went, I'm not quite sure
if that was the right thing for me.
PAUL: So he was right behind you, Okorie
OKORIE: In some way, maybe this was the fire
that drove me even more because I remember
to this day where I was on the stairwell
just right next to the dinner hall,
and I said it to and just the way he said
it, and I thought,
Why are you saying that?
It just in the back of my head.
And I said, I'm going to do this.
But I didn't do drama in my last two
years, but I did go
to college to do drama.
And it was through college I was like,
yeah, I would like to go
into drama school.
And I didn't go straight the year
after I took a year out.
And then it was during that year out I was
like, okay, I'm going to start
trying to get into drama school.
And it actually took me three
times to get into drama school.
Actually, I was on my third occasion
because I couldn't get
in the first two times.
And I always auditioned for Mountview
and the second time I did RADA as well.
I wasn't like choosing loads.
I kind of wanted to go to Mountview.
So it was on the third occasion and I had
done some youth theatre along that journey
and on the third occasion I got in.
But what was interesting is that later on,
I think because beforehand I used to speak
with a sibilant 's', so I used to have
kind of like a subtle speech impediment.
And when I entered,
they were saying that much of their
decision was based on not knowing if I
could work on and get rid
of the sibilant 's' and I discovered
that later and I was like,
wow, it's quite interesting.
That was what some of the
decision was based on.
But as soon as I was told that,
within three months of starting
my training, I got rid of it by just doing
the work, and it was kind of like, well,
I understand that, but people do the work
and can get rid of the sibilant 's'.
During college,
I decided I wanted to well, that year out,
I decided I wanted to get
into drama school.
Two years later, I got into Mountview
and began my training there.
PAUL: How did you find Mountview?
OKORIE: So notably at the time it was musical
theatre, but their acting course had
gotten so much better and such a range
of skills taught there in acting,
but with movement,
and they did quite a bit of devising,
so they train all around actors.
If I'm honest, drama school was
a tricky experience for me.
I think it was quite
a different experience for me.
But I enjoyed when I was up doing
the work, I wasn't really taken by
too much of the discussion
because it was a bit much.
I've always enjoyed getting up and doing
it and learning on the experience.
And so the first two years were cool.
I did pick up a lot.
I love doing the Shakespeare particularly.
I also love doing restoration.
I really love restoration, actually.
PAUL: Interesting.
OKORIE: I like the fact that it's
serious, but it's funny.
And I think that's what I really enjoyed
about restoration, that these characters
take themselves so seriously
and the timing and there's
such a vibrance about it.
It's so heightened
but grounded at the same time.
PAUL: That's very interesting you say that,
and obviously it's maybe an obvious thing
to say, but I do think about comedy a lot.
It's very important to us
at Told by an Idiot,
and I think what you say there is really
important is actually mostly you
should be very serious in any comedy.
Mostly those characters don't
think anything's funny.
They're usually in a very serious
situation, which makes it funny.
What was your favourite
parts to play at Mountview?
OKORIE: So we also did I remember in my third
year, we did the Marat/Sade.
PAUL: Oh, wow, extraordinary play.
OKORIE: And the head of the school at that time
had taken on that project and
so many different characters.
And the way he approached it,
he got us to read a book about
illnesses, like mental illnesses,
and then he would have us choose one
for our character and then he would have
us get up and he done this
interesting improvisation.
Not exactly improvisation,
but a way of getting into the lines.
And what he did whilst we were in this
kind of, had decided what our character's
illness was, he would have another actor
say the line to us
and then we would say it.
So in a way, we're not thinking about
the lines, but we're just
trying to embody it.
And it just took on a whole other kind of
level of embodiment the words with that.
He just made all of us go through
that and it made us think about
taking the time and letting the words fall
in to our intention and then put it out.
But it was like about,
I think, was it the whole year?
It was half of the year
that were in that play.
PAUL: Wow.
OKORIE: I really enjoyed that because for me,
I had never played a character kind
of who was Jac -
the name's gone for me,
but a very outspoken
character who was a rabble rouser.
PAUL: Oh, wow.
OKORIE: I never kind of played like
a character like that.
It was really freeing, like,
oh, I want to cause trouble.
I'm really outspoken and I really enjoyed
doing that kind of role.
So that was an interesting one.
And then
I think that was the most significant one
in my third year that I really enjoyed.
PAUL: And then when you then left Okorie and you
started sort of working in theatre.
It's funny, I'm sitting here talking
to you just before I start our technical
rehearsal, at the New Vic Theatre
for our new production.
And you've obviously worked here,
Around The World in 80 Days,
and it's such a fantastic space.
What did you feel about
acting in the round?
For those listeners who don't know, the
New Vic Theatre is totally in the round.
I think it's really exciting.
Was that your first time in the round or
had you acted in that
configuration before?
OKORIE: It was my first time in the round.
It was actually one of the first jobs
after drama school and beautiful,
wonderful experience.
One of the best stages in terms
of in the round I've ever been on,
PAUL: Yea it's amazing, yea.
OKORIE: I think the acoustics,
the proximity to the audience, the warmth
of the space, it was so amazing.
And Around the World
in 80 Days was a comedy.
It was devised, once again,
around so many talented comedic actors
and actors and such a beautiful
space, the new Vic.
I think the New Vic as well.
If I just say this, is one of the theatres
that I think really still holds
a community connection in a sense that
PAUL:I totally agree.
OKORIE: People come there, really have
a relationship with the theatre.
They have a history with the theatre.
They love the theatre.
And when I was there, it was such
a warm, beautiful experience.
All the staff there are amazing Theresa,
Who runs it is amazing.
PAUL: I totally agree Okorie we did a rehearsal
last week for the ages and stages group
who come, and they came
to watch our rehearsal.
And you got a real feeling
that it was their theatre.
It was so lovely to hear them
share their feelings about it.
So then, of course, I have to come to when
you joined the Idiots for
never try this at home.
And in some ways, it was clearly,
if I look back on it, it was
based around something that was before you
were born, this TV show, Tiswas,
that was important to me and my youth
and obviously was connected to Birmingham,
where we co-produced the show.
And to this day, I suppose it's probably
the most anarchic show we've ever made.
I mean, we do like Anarchy at the Idiots,
but I remember saying to our designer,
Michael Vale, you remember, I said
in the first five minutes,
I want there to be a huge custard
pie fight involving everybody.
And Michael Vale went,
Isn't it better to do that at the end
so we don't have to clear it up?
And I said, no,
I want a massive one at the beginning
and a massive one at the end.
I just have such amazing memories of all
of you in this anarchy
and these pies flying.
And we've been very lucky, I think,
to do amazing experiences
with Told by an Idiot around
the world in exotic places.
But one experience that I think will live
with me forever was when we closed the
theatre tent at the Latitude Festival.
You remember now, of course,
it's not like the Rolling Stones closing
Glastonbury, I'm not saying it's not,
but I've never seen such an extraordinary
sight as not only you pieing each other,
but members of the audience joining
you on stage to pie each other.
Do you remember that?
OKORIE: We didn't even realise that would happen
because we've been in the theatre.
Everyone's like, oh, great, it's over.
But everyone Latitude just went crazy.
And it was so fantastic.
It was like, this is like how
it should have always been.
Almost.
PAUL: Exactly.
OKORIE: I loved for people to get up and pie us.
PAUL: Yeah.
And I think because it was the end
of the festival, everyone was kind
of out of it in one way or the other.
You're right.
It was the performance that I always
wanted to see, which we couldn't quite
achieve it inside the theatre,
but you were brilliant in it and you were
so for it and very open as a performer.
And I think that's really important.
It's a really important quality to remain
curious and open as a performer.
Is that something you think about or is it
just a natural, becomes natural to you?
OKORIE: Definitely.
I always try to be open and I think,
naturally, I do like to be open because I
do like the experience and I do like
generally having trust in the company.
And anything I do, I do because I love it
and I just want to have that open trust.
But I think, as well,
the company at that time,
you had to be open in that kind of space
because everyone was just up for it
and having fun, and the space was so it
was just like such a fluid experience.
PAUL: But it's interesting talking about kind
of we know different experiences as
an actor because
you've gone on, obviously,
to do a lot of work on screen and
the sitcom, of course,
that you've been doing for a while.
That was a big thing to step into.
You were taking over in the role,
is that right?
From Jimmy Akingbola.
How did that all happen and come about?
OKORIE: Yeah,
it was a time I was going crazy because I
was auditioning a lot and you
have that what's going on.
And then all of a sudden this audition
came up and I was like,
oh, another audition.
I'm probably not going to get it.
Okay, I'll go in and I'll meet Andy.
So it came up that it was
the second series of Kate and Koji.
Jimmy Akingbola had gone
on to do Fresh Prince in the US.
So they were looking for another actor
and to do this character
of Koji who's an asylum seeker.
So I went in, read with them, and
I had four days and there was
like six scenes to look at.
And I was like, what?
I was like, drilling it every day,
still thinking, oh, this is going
to just go downhill anyway.
I haven't even got enough time.
But I said, okay, I'm going to go in.
And I was really doubtful, actually.
And my agent was like,
just go in and go and audition.
I said, okay.
And I went in and I was reading
the character and it was kind of like one
of those auditions where
the director is just looking at you.
They're just staring at you.
And you're thinking, this is so bad.
And every scene I've read,
they're like, great, wonderful.
Okay, next scene.
Great.
Wonderful.
And then I was like, feeling so bad,
I thought maybe I should ask some
questions because maybe they
think I'm not interested enough.
So I say, what do you think about this?
And what do you think about that?
They're like, yeah, great.
I was like, oh God, this is so bad.
So anyway, got to the end, left and I
was like, oh, that was terrible.
And then about four days later,
my agent called up and was like, oh, yeah,
they're really considering
you for the role.
I was like, what?
Are you serious?
And then a few days after that they're
like, you got the role. And then I
was like, yes, I smashed it.
PAUL: It's a good lesson though, isn't it?
Because I don't know about you,
but sometimes when I've done auditions
for something and I think it's gone
really, really well, I think,
yeah, I nailed that.
And then I don't hear a word.
OKORIE: Yeah, always the way, always the way!
PAUL: Yeah,
and then other times I think, I
wasn't quite sure.
And then you do.
And then also not only is it
an extraordinary part for you, but you're
then acting opposite Brenda Blethyn.
I mean, at what point did you meet her?
OKORIE: Yeah, so it was quite,
because they had had to postpone it
because of lockdown and such like that.
So it was quite a tight schedule.
So I think I got offered it in November
and then they wanted to do some
preliminary shooting in December, October,
then preliminary shooting in December.
Outdoor shooting.
So I had a meal I first actually met
Blake Harrison and then we had another
meal to meet Brenda because she was busy.
I think she was shooting
on Vera at the time.
So, yeah,
had a meal with Brenda
just to chat with her.
And she's just lovely.
I mean, she's such a down to earth,
warm hearted person.
Major, highly skilled.
I mean, her comedy, fantastic.
And her drama, she's just
so seamless with it.
And she's such a person
who gives so much to the work.
So, yeah, working with her
was just amazing.
You can never see it coming.
She can be serious and just switch into
comedy and just make you laugh on stage.
And the whole thing was just such
a marvellous experience to be filming once
again doing live sitcom comedy
in front of a live audience.
We don't do that really anymore.
The Americans do, but British comedy
doesn't get to do that as much.
PAUL: No, it's true, I've done a few much
smaller parts than you,
but over the years in the past,
I've been a guest on various sitcoms and I
used to love the live audience ones,
because it was almost a hybrid
of theatre and TV, you know what I mean?
It was almost a mix.
OKORIE: Exactly.
Yeah.
And I think it was right from when I read
the script, to be honest, I didn't feel
like I identified with the character.
So then going on to play,
I really was able to find so much I really
enjoyed, because Koji's character
is quite down to earth.
He's not trying to be funny,
he's just funny because of the responses
he has and then bringing
in a bit of vulnerability.
I really enjoyed with that character
and then him being a support at times,
there was such a dynamic to his character.
And me and Brenda's,
our characters will have a bit
of a loggerhead here and there.
So it was really nice to kind of be having
this experience and then
being in a live audience.
I remember the first day I was shooting as
soon as we got on the stage and we were
rolling and at the first crowd laughter.
It was such a surreal thing because I was
like it was like I was watching the comedy
that I was in because you know
that laughter is so, like,
attached to sitcom comedy,
so such a surreal real experience
and thinking I'm actually here
on the stage doing this sitcom comedy
because I've watched so
many of these kind of...
PAUL:And to be in, it must be surreal.
This is slightly left field,
but it is to do with performance.
But I know, or I think we chatted or I've
seen on your CV or something,
but that you have, over the years, trained
or done martial arts, is that right?
Of some sort?
OKORIE: Going back to when I had that year out.
Because also along the times when I was
younger, watching a lot of movies,
I was also exposed to a lot of Hong Kong
cinema, predominantly Jackie Chan's work.
And I remember
my brothers who were older would stay up
one Christmas when they were showing a lot
of Jackie Chan films, and my dad
would be like, go to bed, go in bed.
You can't stay up late watching
Jackie Chan at midnight.
So they would set the recorder
to record overnight.
And my dad hated electricity being on,
but he couldn't tell when the video was
on, even though it was a red light,
he would look it and he would just think,
maybe it's supposed to be on.
And then in the morning,
we would get up and I think we were
watching this film called Police Story.
And I was just seeing this
guy jump around, move fast.
I didn't know what the story was about.
I just saw him bouncing around like this,
and I was like, I would love to do that.
So it wasn't until later in life, I mean,
I was watching Jackie Chan when I was
about eight years old,
but when I was about 18, 19,
I decided I was going to start
martial arts training and gymnastics.
And I haven't looked back.
I just love the, there's so much to it.
Just the health, the philosophy.
PAUL: Yeah.
The discipline.
OKORIE: And it is an expression as well.
I consistently go back
to it just for expression.
In the park, I'll be backflipping.
PAUL: Have you ever had to use it in any work,
any film, TV or anything?
Have you got to do that yet?
OKORIE: In 80 days when I played battle card.
PAUL: Yes, of course.
OKORIE: I was going from one bump to the other,
doing the backflip somersault cartweels.
PAUL: You were!
OKORIE: Yeah, I'd done the splits on the stage.
Mike Hugo, another wonderful comedy actor,
had to try and mimic me,
but he'd done it funnily.
So great.
And then I played the ninja pirate
in Regents Park's Peter Pan.
And I had I ran on stage doing
the aerial with two swords in my hand.
I was fighting the twins with a sword.
PAUL: Now Okorie, it's been lovely chatting.
I always end in the same way.
I'm going to ask you seven
quick fire questions, okay?
You just have to say your first answer.
This is quite apt, given our
last bit of conversation.
Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee?
OKORIE: Jackie Chan
PAUL: Mastermind or Pointless?
OKORIE: Mastermind
PAUL: Whitney Houston or Beyonce?
OKORIE: Whitney Houston
PAUL: Yoga or pilates?
OKORIE: Yoga
PAUL: If you had to do another job,
you've got to choose between two.
Jockey or escapologist?
OKORIE: Jockey
PAUL: Jockey. Okay.
Trapeze or highwire?
OKORIE: Highwire
PAUL: LA or New York?
OKORIE: New York
PAUL: It's been so lovely chatting to you.
Let's not leave it so long and good
luck with everything in showbiz, okay?
OKORIE: Definitely.
Paul, lovely to see you.
And hope to see you soon.
PAUL: Take care, mate.
All the best!
OKORIE: Cheers.
PAUL: Dear listeners, if you've enjoyed this
Idiot podcast, please spread the word.